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Connect the World
Nigeria Declared Ebola Free; Boko Haram Unleashes Two New Attacks; U.S. Airdrops Weapons, Medical Supplies Into Kobani; India's Ambitious Plan To Be Slum Free By 2020; U.S. Airstrikes Putting Dent In ISIS Oil Production; Power Struggle in Libya; History of Kurds in Middle East; Parting Shots: Wheezing All the Way to Finish Line
Aired October 20, 2014 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: No U.S. boots on the ground in Iraq or Syria, but the U.S. gets arms to those on the ground and the Turkish president
isn't happy.
The one concession from Ankara is to let more Kurds across its border on their way to the battle for Kobani.
This hour, we'll examine how the Kurdish people have become crucial players in a global fight they wanted as little as anyone.
Also ahead, three years to the day after the death of Moammar Gadhafi, militants are running riot in Libya. We'll speak to the U.S. ambassador to
Tripoli who has been forced out of the country by the ongoing chaos.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: A very good evening from the UAE. It is just after 7:00 p.m. here. And we begin with a policy shift from Turkey in the battle
against ISIS.
While there is also a new course of action from Washington -- for the first time, the U.S. military has airdropped weapons and medical supplies
to Kurdish fighters in the besieged Syrian city of Kobani.
At the same time, Turkey now says it will allow members of the Iraqi Peshmerga to cross Turkish territory on their way to join the fight in
Kobani.
Here is what Turkey's foreign minister had to say.
(BEGIN VDIEO CLIP)
MEVLUT CAVUSOGLU (through translator): We are fully cooperating with the coalition with respect to Kobani. We want to eliminate all kinds of
threats in the region. And we see the military and medical aid outfitted by our Iraqi Kurdish brothers and airdropped by the United States to all
group defending Kobani, from that perspective.
We are facilitating the passage of Peshmerga fighters to Kobani. Further talks are underway on this matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Some will call that a cynical move.
Nick Paton Walsh has more from the Turkish-Syrian border not far from Kobani.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PAGON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is high tech air power brought to bear against a Medieval brutality. Millions of
dollars of guided munitions delaying or even stopping a radical, but ragtag militia's advance on Kobani, a town whose significance has grown in ways
its residents must have hoped it never would.
To the Kurds, key to their bid for a homeland; to ISIS the last hurdle before controlling a huge stretch of border. And, to the coalition, a
chance to very publicly use one overwhelming advantage for a psychological short-term win and then talk like you're not.
REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Airstrikes are dynamic, they're exciting, you can count them. You can get a great video
of them. I understand the drama around airstrikes, but we've said, a, airstrikes alone are not going to do this. Military power alone is not
going to do this. And it's going to take some time.
WALSH: After the swift advance across Syria and Iraq, this is perhaps the first serious setback ISIS has faced, said a leading observer.
"It has weakened their morale," he says, "especially as they've lost a lot of their foreign fighters, especially their Kurdish fighters who are
considered the fiercest about 400 to 500 in that location. "This weakening could cause them to pull back from Kobani altogether," he says. "And they
do not have the supply line to continue the operation."
ISIS's high tech weapon, social media, has also been more muted on Kobani, he said. Adding the reported claims they could fly warplanes near
Aleppo was aimed at restoring confidence.
"The reason they had that plane take off," he says, "is to raise morale that started to collapse in a very clear way, especially in their
media. Right now they're looking for revenge operations against the coalition countries to restore their big image."
With a full cabinet now in place in Baghdad, Washington may hope the psychological wind of Kobani could bolster Iraq's lackluster forces, too.
Yet the U.S. knows its strategy has limitations.
KIRBY: The idea isn't to just put a warhead on a forehead every single day, the idea is to try to get at their ability to sustain
themselves and disrupt their strategy.
WALSH: ISIS, al Qaeda, the Taliban, they've all adapted in the past. And these bombs may not be enough to prevent ISIS form doing so again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Nick Paton Walsh joining us now on the phone.
A political leader in Kobani says Kurdish fighters control nearly three-quarter of Kobani. Can we stand that up? And if so, just how
significant would this be in this fight?
WALSH: Well, at this stage the air supply being dropped in is vitally part of the reason why the Kurds have been crying for. Yes, they have
increased their hold on the city's territory. I have to say, they were talking about 80 percent a few days ago, now a senior leader (inaudible)
are telling us about 70 percent. So they may have slipped back fractionally.
And they're also talking about how there have been 200 mortars landing in the last three days seemingly at random targeting the city center. ISIS
still clearly having a strong presence inside there.
But those supplies, the three C130s, 27 bundles that have got into Kurdish hands now, contained AK-47s and bullets for them, and also medical
supplies.
(inaudible) apparently we heard from a doctor who says he was delighted to finally be able to treat patients properly in their makeshift
hospital there after days of struggling to make ends meet.
But, yes, (inaudible) they would like to hear of more airdrops to support them. They are quite clear that they see the fight against ISIS as
far from complete. And also I think grateful at this stage, too, and also pointed out that despite claims that the Turkish Peshmerga may -- I'm
sorry, Iraqi Peshmerga may be en route, they have yet to see them inside the city -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Nick, as we see a policy change in the dropping of this -- these goods over Kobani by Washington, we see a concession or a policy
shift, some say a cynical change in action by the Turks. How do you read their change?
WALSH: Well, Turkey's message today from its foreign minister was nuanced. They did say they had never wanted to see Kobani fall. While
many observers think that hasn't been the case given how intransigent their tanks have sat on the hills watching the conflict. At many stages ISIS
looking like it was going to take the city.
They did also repeat the fact they consider the Syrian Kurds inside Kobani to in some ways to be terrorists, allied to Turkish Kurds who
they've blacklisted in such a way. But at the same time saying, yes, they would let Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga fighters come through, but discussions on
that were continuing.
So I think that's Turkey's way of trying to perhaps appease its critics internationally who say it may be trying to (inaudible) towards a
bloody defeat. And of course there was presumably quite a coarse phone call, you must image, between Barack Obama and his Turkish counterpart,
President Erdogan last night in which they described the intention the Americans had to make that airdrop.
Unclear quite what Turkey said in response. They must have been slightly miffed to hear that their NATO allies are flying weapons directly
to Syrian Kurds, but hours later this talk of the Peshmerga, certainly Turkey trying to, I think, manipulate his position slightly to leave its
less vulnerable to international criticism -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Nick Paton Walsh reporting on the ground for you.
And we'll continue our special coverage of the battle against ISIS coming up on Connect the World with me, Becky Anderson.
We'll take a closer look at the Kurds, their history, perseverance and economic comeback. Ivan Watson looks at how the battle for Kobani in Syria
is spilling into Turkey and hitting close to home for many in Istanbul.
And John Defterios takes a look at how U.S. airstrikes are hitting ISIS where it hurts: in the wallet. That and more on Connect the World
this hour.
It's eight minutes past 7:00 here in the UAE. We are seeing progress in the fight against Ebola on multiple fronts today. Within the past few
minutes, we've learned of another health care worker cured of the disease, this time it's a Medecins San Frontieres worker from Norway.
Meanwhile, Texas health officials have cleared 43 people who had contact with Ebola victim Thomas Duncan, including the man's fiancee.
Health officials hope to clear five people still under quarantine in the next few days.
And Spanish officials say they will ask nurse assistant Teresa Romero to donate blood to provide antibodies to other Ebola victims. Her latest
test for the virus came up negative.
And in the last few hours, Nigeria was declared Ebola free, that's just days after Senegal cleared of the deadly virus. The death toll across
West Africa does, though, stand at more than 4,500 people.
Well, the outbreak also generating a huge amount of paranoia around the world, of course, it's even driven one U.S. college to deny applicants
from affected countries.
But unjustified fear about Ebola also running high in West Africa as Nima Elbagir shows us, the youngest are often the ones who are paying the
price.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is Calculator's favorite doll. It was supposed to be his cousin Esther's, but she let him
have it. She says she likes it when he's happy.
The 10-year-old and his cousin are the last remaining Ebola orphans at the at the Hawa Massequio Orphanage. Their parents died last month and none
of the extended family is willing to claim them. They're too afraid.
And they're not the only ones. At the Christ Kingdom Harvest Church in New Georgia, Pastor John Ghartey said a prayer for safekeeping.
This community, like many others, has lost friends and loved ones to the disease. Twenty-one-year-old Hawa's mother Fienci sang in the choir
here. Fienci died last month leaving Hawa to care for her four brothers and sisters, and her own one-year-old daughter.
JOHN GHARTEY, PASTOR: She was laying in the room dead and all the children -- the 6 of them -- they were on the porch lying down on the
ground.
ELBAGIR: The congregation was initially afraid, unwilling to have the children live among them, even after they showed no symptoms of Ebola. But
the pastor rallied, preaching, organizing collections, even just holding the children's hands, a rare gesture in these fearful times, that convinced
his congregation to care.
GHARTEY: Ebola is separating families because when your family has come down with the virus. Nobody want to touch. Nobody want to interact.
ELBAGIR: The World Health Organization believes nearly 4,500 people have died from Ebola, but numbers don't tell the full story.
SHELDON YETT, UNICEF: This virus has impact much, much greater than the direct number of people immediately impacted. For each mother, there's
a child; for each father there's a child.
ELBAGIR: The United Nations Children's Fund UNICEF estimates at least 2,00 children have been orphaned in Liberia. Many go on to be stigmatized
by their communities, but some, like Pastro Ghartey are working to change that.
GHARTEY: They come to my house. They sit in my living room with my family. They are like a family to us now.
ELBAGIR: At the orphanage, Calculator and Esther wait for families willing to welcome them into their homes. If that happens, Calculator says
he'll let Esther take the doll so she doesn't forget him.
Nima Elbagir, CNN, Monrovia, Liberia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Lest we forget the reality on the ground.
I want to get you to Abuja in Nigeria now. Isha Sesay joining us from there. And a good day, some good news in what has been a slew of very
unfortunate and disturbing headlines. Nigeria now, though, free of Ebola. What do we know?
ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Becky.
Yes, a rare glimmer of you could go as far as to say joy amidst what has just been a fast moving tragedy across the West African region in those
hard hit countries of Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea. Today, the World Health Organization declaring Nigeria Ebola free. 42 days have gone by and
there have been no new cases.
This is a very, very good day for the fight against Ebola. It shows that you can fight Ebola, you can win the battle against Ebola. And that
is something we've heard from the Nigerian health minister alongside World Health Organization officials.
Let's be clear with our viewers as to why this is such an important victory in this fight. This -- the first case of Ebola appeared in Lagos.
It appeared in the commercial capital of this country, a city of 21 million people. A Liberian American man, Patrick Sawyer (ph), took a flight from
Liberia and collapsed at the airport in Lagos and that was how Ebola made it to Nigeria.
There were huge fears, Becky, that in a city like Lagos as full, as highly populated as it is, this could be the beginning of a very, very
serious situation. The Nigeria government using a host of measures, including a very effective communication system, alongside converting what
had been an infrastructure built to deal with polio, converting that for use in the fight against Ebola has all led them to this place today where
the World Health Organization has declared this country Ebola free -- Becky.
ANDERSON: We have heard reports, Isha, about a deal that could lead to the freeing of those girls kidnapped by Boko Haram earlier this year.
You're there on the ground. What do we know of the latest on that?
SESAY: Yeah, Becky. This word emerged on Friday. That deal had reportedly been struck with Boko Haram, the deal coming from talks underway
in Chad being mediated by the Chadian President Idriss Deby.
It is our understanding from what we're hearing on the ground that there is some kind of deal in place. And as part of that deal, those 219
schoolgirls abducted back in April will be released.
No more details after that, basically. We are working to find out when will this take place, what will that deal look like, you know, what
will secure the release of these girls? Many, many questions.
But as we understand it right now, talks continue. We understand those talks still going on in Chad. And we are very closely monitoring the
hours ahead -- Becky.
ANDERSON: And Isha, we'll have a lot more on the situation in Nigeria. Thank you, Isha, both regarding Ebola and the effort to free
those girls coming up on News Center, that's 7:30 p.m. in London and Abuja, 10:30 here in Abu Dhabi. Only, of course, on CNN.
Well, still to come this hour, three years to the day after the death of Moammar Gadhafi and Libya is still struggling to find its feet. We're
going to speak to the U.S. ambassador to Libya later in the program.
And, hitting ISIS where it hurts. One of the main tactical victories the airstrikes seem to cut the flow of cash to the extremist group, that up
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're back with CNN. This is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson.
Now to our top story again this hour. American airstrikes keeping ISIS from overrunning the town of Kobani on Syria's border with Turkey.
The U.S. says it has dropped -- airdropped weapons, ammunition and medical supplies to Kurdish forces trying to defend that town. It says the
supplies were provided by Kurdish authorities in Iraq.
Well, western airstrikes also damaging the ability of the militants to produce and sell oil. One estimate says output has dropped by tens of
thousands of barrels a day since that air campaign began.
CNN's emerging markets editor at the Global Exchange with me, John Defterios joining me now.
We're looking at a better than two-thirds drop in production. That would hurt their wallets. Do those figures hold water?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, this is coming from the International Energy Agency in its latest oil monthly report. And it's
created some controversy. But what we're suggesting here, Becky, is that production output was up to 70,000 barrels a day back in August. They're
suggesting it's gone all the way down to 20,000 barrels a day. And they've struck very much at the center of Iraq.
This is in and around Tikrit right near the Baji refinery. They were producing 20,000 barrels a day from that location alone, apparently loading
up tankers, 120 tankers. It's just at a tenth of that level. So they were -- the concentration of the strikes was in central Iraq and also going
after Syria in the Deir ez-Zor area.
ANDERSON: In real money, what does that mean?
DEFTERIOS: Well, 70,000 barrels a day would mean $2.8 million a day for ISIS. Now at 20,000 barrels a day that would bring it all the way down
to $800,000. Now that's nothing to sneeze at, but it's a far cry from where they were before. And that's a huge challenge.
But many are suggesting on the ground, like the Iraq Energy Institute, and IHS Energy, which Dan Jurgen (ph), the famous author in the energy
sector suggested is very little intelligence coming out. The IHS in the last half hour, for example, put out a report saying that the production
still remains at 50,000 to 60,000 barrels. They're wondering where the IEA is getting this number.
And they're suggesting now that ISIS controls 8 million people. To control 8 million people in this region here, you have to have production
of 70,000 barrels a day, or there are going to be a lot of pressure on ISIS around the winter when there's an energy shortage.
ANDERSON: I've been struck that oil prices have remained weak through all of this. We've witnessed a drop of more than, what, some 20 percent in
prices since June. A region that relies on oil revenues here, this must be creating tensions, isn't it?
DEFTERIOS: Yeah, and the simple answer is there's a lot of oil around. Saudi Arabia is not cutting production. Here in the UAE, they're
not cutting production. Kuwait is not cutting production. The rise of the United States, Canada is producing from the tar sands.
And what this is emerging right now is a battle within OPEC. You can even say it's a Sunni-Shia battle where one side is Saudi Arabia, Kuwait
and the UAE representing the Sunnis; pressure on Iran, which needs $140 a barrel to break even on its budget, pressure on Iraq, and then you have the
other groups within OPEC like Venezuela. It wanted at least $110 a barrel.
So this is all going to be argued out in November 27 in Vienna when they have the OPEC meeting, even creating tensions within Saudi Arabia.
Prince al-Walid bin Talal, for example, suggesting that we shouldn't be trying to manage a price at $80 a barrel. Ali al-Naimi (ph), the famous
energy minister of Saudi Arabia suggesting we can ride it out. We produce at $4 to $7 a barrel.
Very high level sources suggesting Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait trying to put pressure on Iran, Iraq and even perhaps the United States.
ANDERSON: Watch this space.
DEFTERIOS: Yeah, very interesting.
ANDERSON: Not much pressure on ISIS these days interestingly.
John, thank you.
Oil, of course, not the only source of funding for ISIS. The group receives money through many others avenues as well, of course, from
receiving donations from wealthy parties in countries around the world to looting and selling ancient artifacts on the black market, also forcing
taxes onto people wherever it establishes control.
All this week on Connect the World with me, Becky Anderson, will follow the money and break down that revenue stream of what some are
calling ISIS Inc, or ISIS Incorporated.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World. Coming up, India's government has an ambitious plan. It wants to see a slum-free country by
2020. This week's transformations look at projects that's helping pave the way street by street. That is next. Your headlines will follow that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Day breaks over one of the hundreds of slums in the Western Indian city of Ahmedabad.
Here, daily life carries on amid broken houses, garbage and animals. According to a 2011 national census, some 17 percent of India's population
live in conditions that are, as the census describes, unfit for human habitation.
But things are changing.
In the city's Viswashnagar Slum (ph), a project has been incrementally improving the livelihoods of residents for a decade.
MINA SONI, RESIDENT (through translator): Previously, there were no gutters, no water, absolutely nothing. We just had a small house of four
walls standing alone. Also, we had no latrines, bathrooms, nothing.
LU STOUT: It's a venture called Harvitan (ph), or transformation, a joint public, private and community effort to bring basic services and
infrastructure to slums.
Financed by the government and private contributors, the project also relies on a third of capital costs from the residents who pay what they
can.
Rijal Brahmbatt, a director of one of the leading NGOs involved has seen the project grow form its infancy to provide access to seven basic
services.
RIJAL BRAHMBHATT, DIRECTOR, MAHIA HOUSING SEWA TRUST: They've been given household level water, they have been given toilets, they've also
been given sewage, paved roads, street lights, some basic solid waste management, three plantations (ph) and some water drainage.
LU STOUT: Despite the obvious benefits, the plan initially faced skepticism from residents who did not trust the government, a hurdle
overcome through the mediation of NGOs and the inclusion of a community voice.
DIUP GOR, AHMEDABAD DEPUTY MUNICIPAL COUNCILMAN: To make the people of the slum aware and motivate them to pay for this makes at times of
belongingness when we're creating the mind of the people.
LU STOUT: Today, on top of access to basic amenities, residents of Vishwasnagar (ph) also have community health care and education services.
Women are seeing empowerment through education. Upgraded houses have increased in value. And residents are seeing a social impact as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Previously, even if you left this area, people around you didn't like you because they used to see
you and because the place is dirty than the people living there will be dirty too no matter how great your surname is. Now, life is good.
LU STOUT: The Mahila Turst says that 51 slums have been upgraded in this way. And in light of an ambitious government plan to see a slum-free
India by 2020, the Positemp (ph) project is helping pave the way street by street.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. The top stories here on CNN this hour.
The US has air-dropped weapons and medicine to Kurdish fighters in the northern Syrian city of Kobani. The Kurds have been trying to defend the
city from the Islamic militant group ISIS for weeks. Meanwhile, Turkey will allow Iraqi Kurdish fighters to cross Turkish territory on their way
to join that fight.
The World Health Organization has declared Nigeria Ebola-free. That means it has been 42 days without any new confirmed cases. An airline
passenger brought the virus to Lagos in July. Eight people died.
More than 400 people have been airlifted to safety from Nepal's Himalayas. A local trekking group says it is not aware of any more missing
tourists, but some guides are still unaccounted for. At least 50 bodies have been found since Tuesday when a snowstorm hit the mountains.
It's been exactly three years since Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi was killed, and his death left a deep a power vacuum.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GUNFIRE)
(PEOPLE SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Islamist militia in the west are battling the internationally-recognized government in the east for control of the
country. Dozens have reportedly been killed in fierce fighting between pro-government forces and militia in Benghazi in the last week alone.
I met with a key funder of the revolution that overthrew Moammar Gadhafi and asked him what he thought of the situation in Libya three years
on.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(PEOPLE SHOUTING)
(EXPLOSIONS)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Grainy images that signaled the fall of a once powerful regime. These were the final moments of Moammar Gadhafi, the man
who'd ruled Libya for more than four decades, but eventually met a bloody end just a short distance away from his birthplace.
(GUNFIRE)
ANDERSON: Three year's on, the colonel's legacy of brutality continues to haunt a country steadily marching towards civil war. Once
united behind a common goal, rival militia have turned their guns on each other, fighting over political and economic power and Libya's vast oil
reserve.
Elections in June brought to power a new Western-backed government, but the results continue to be challenged by Islamists who were already in
power.
It was into a country struggling with two governments and two parliaments that UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon flew recently to urge the
warring factions to make peace. His message: there is no alternative to dialogue. But that holds no rub with UAE-based Libyan tycoon Hassan
Tatanki.
HASSAN TATANKI, LIBYAN BUSINESSMAN: The Libyan government is in Tobruk and Bayda. So, here we have the UN general-secretary flying into
Tripoli with the Italian foreign secretary and negotiating. For what and with who?
ANDERSON: And another factor complicating events on the ground: the emergence of renegade general Khalifa Haftar, once a staunch supporter of
Gadhafi, now leading a military offensive dubbed "Operation Dignity" against Islamists in Benghazi.
ANDERSON (on camera): General Haftar, back on the scene, making bold statements about liberating Libya. You once partnered with him. Is he the
man to take Libya forward?
TATANKI: We now have a proper chief of staff of the military, so all military acts that are taking, now, place in Libya is under the command of
the chief of staff, the general.
ANDERSON: So "no" is the answer to that.
TATANKI: No, it is -- they will be part of the military, properly- established military.
ANDERSON: A power broker in the past, does Tatanki harbor his own ambitions for front line politics?
TATANKI: Do I have intentions of going into politics? No. At this stage, no. I think right now, Libya needs people who are to build a
nation, not to run a nation. Let's build it first, then talk about running the nation. But right now, we need to build a nation.
ANDERSON: As it teeters on the brink of civil war, the optimism of the revolution is a fading memory.
TATANKI: I think we feel that we were let down unintentionally. I think they were -- everywhere was overcome by the fact that we managed to
get rid of Gadhafi. But I don't think it was planned well. From the beginning of the revolution, let's say four months within the revolution.
You can see that the radicals are taking over.
ANDERSON: It's that fear of a power vacuum filled by radicals with Islamist agenda that concerns many in a region already struggling with a
very real problem of extremist violence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, the governments of France, Germany, Italy, and the UK -- and the US, indeed -- have issued a joint statement condemning the
escalating violence in Libya, but what are the country's options, and how can it move forward?
To discuss this further, I'm joined by Deborah Jones, US ambassador to Libya, joining me from Malta. The US has moved all diplomatic activities
outside of Libya due to the violence. Ms. Jones's predecessor, Chris Stevens, of course, was killed in an attack two years ago.
Thank you for joining me. Let me quote to you a State Department communique dated 22nd of September. "We reject any outside interference in
Libya. The people of Libya fought to overthrow 42 years of dictatorship, and we continue to support their effort to transform the country into a
secure, democratic, and prosperous state."
Are you telling me that you are confident that left to its own devices, Libya is on the road to a democratic transition?
DEBORAH JONES, US AMBASSADOR TO LIBYA: Well, thanks for having me, Becky. What I think we can say is that if there is a lot of external
interference that is destabilizing, in fact, Libyans will never be able to reach the kind of consensus and agreement and develop the kind of core --
critical core of consensus that they need to have, in fact, an inclusive and democratic government.
I can keep going if you like if you'd like --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: What are you talking about when you talk about outside interference?
JONES: Well, I think that's pretty clear. Obviously, Libya is of great concern to many people for different reasons, because of its
location, because of its wealth, because of the great vacuum that is there, because of its geographic features, which is a large, porous society that
is absent any kind of institutional security right now.
So, it's not surprising that its neighbors and -- it's near neighbors and its further neighbors have concerns. In particular, depending on where
you sit about refugee situations, refugee flows, or about extremist groups getting its hands -- their hands on Libya's --
ANDERSON: All right.
JONES: -- Libya's significant revenue flows.
ANDERSON: As I broadcast from this region, I have to say, there is significant concern about what is going on and the rise of political Islam
there. I'm assuming that you are alluding to the likes of the UAE and Egypt, for example, who the US has certainly suggested has been involved in
Libya agitating in the past.
Let me ask you a question. Who do you call from Malta when you want to talk business with Libya these days? It is Tobruk, where the Western-
led government is now operating from, or Tripoli?
JONES: I think we speak to a range of people right now. We obviously are supportive of the efforts of Bernadino Leon and the UN. But most
recently, I was in Paris and met with Secretary Kerry, met with Libya's new foreign minister, Mohammed Dairi, for example.
This evening, I expect to be seeing the prime minister, who's coming through. We also, of course, speak to -- we do not speak and we do not
recognize members of the GNC, the defunct GNC, and we don't speak to members of the Omar al-Hasi government.
But we do speak to people across the spectrum and Libyans of all sorts, some of whom are living here, others living in other places.
Because of course, Becky, there's an entire spectrum of Libyans across the range. It's not a matter --
ANDERSON: Sure.
JONES: -- of simple black and white, somehow liberal secularists in Tobruk versus some kind of extremist Islamists. Extremist elements in
Libya that we have to fight together, there are mildly Islamist elements, there are nationalist elements, there -- both sides have some problems, and
both sides --
ANDERSON: Yes.
JONES: -- have the majority of moderates.
ANDERSON: It's clearly a confusing situation and a frightening one for many who live there. Clearly the US sees the country as too explosive
to have a presence there, with documented evidence of foreign fighters being trained and equipped by Libyan militia. How soon before what is
going on there really infects the region, Deborah? And by geographic extension, Europe?
JONES: Well, I think that already, that's a difficult -- how soon does it infect? It already impacts. There's no question that the
potential for impact is already there because of the concerns that are raised.
And that's why we believe it's so important to allow some space for a basically the House of Representatives, the lawfully-elected parliament,
democratically-elected parliament of Libya, to reconstitute itself into a national unity government that enables it to take the kinds of steps with
international support that will ward off some of these -- that will deal with some of these other issues that are very troubling issues.
Ansar Sharia in Derna and Benghazi, and then traffic we're seeing is the introduction of ISIL into Libya, of course. But we also believe that
there is no military solution to the broader political process in Libya.
And basically what you had, you had Don Corleone dying and no -- in testate with no heir, with no Michael Corleone in. You have a lot of
squabbling. And it's a complete --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: OK, let me --
JONES: -- institutional vacuum --
ANDERSON: -- let me interrupt you --
JONES: -- which needs to be resolved. Yes?
ANDERSON: Right, and that is the problem, isn't it? And with respect, and very briefly, do you really believe that a unity government in
Libya is realistic at this point? And if not, what's the future?
JONES: Well, I -- I hate to think of the alternative, let me put it that way, because clearly many people are geared -- gearing up, and we're
very concerned about the potential for hostility. Only the Libyan people will suffer with that.
We have to continue to work as hard as we can as long as we have any element of hope, and we still have an element of hope with that unity
government. We have to keep working at that until we have no alternative, and then --
But I should say, it doesn't preclude working with the government on dealing with the Islamists -- or with the extremists elements, rather, I
should say, with the terrorist elements who we do know are in Derna, Benghazi, and elsewhere in the country. Two separate issues, really.
ANDERSON: And with that, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much, indeed, for joining us and making the time. From Malta this
evening, the US ambassador to Libya, Deborah Jones.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Coming up, Turkey reverses course, letting Iraqi Kurds cross
Turkish territory on their way to Syria, but the battle on the border is triggering violence in Turkey. Up next, how Syrian spillover is hitting
close to home for many in Istanbul.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Welcome back. In the UAE it is 7:46.
Well, the US has been urging Turkey to join the US-led coalition in the fight against ISIS, but Turkey is reluctant, it seems, placing its
tanks on the border with Syria to monitor the battle for Kobani. But now Ankara has agreed to allow Iraqi Peshmerga to cross into Syria from Turkey
-- have a look at the map -- to join the fight in Kobani. Ivan Watson reports on how the battle for that city is spilling onto the streets of
Turkey.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(EXPLOSION)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The raging battle in the Syrian town of Kobani is spilling over the border into
Turkey, triggering confrontations in Turkey's largest city.
(PEOPLE SHOUTING)
WATSON: Turkish supporters of ISIS, filmed at Istanbul University last month, with masks and sticks, chanting "Allahu Akbar," God is great,
before clashing with leftist, secular students. In an eruption of deadly violence this month, Kurds clashed with Islamists and police in the streets
of several Turkish cities, leaving at least 30 people dead.
And on Friday, a memorial at another Istanbul university for a leftist academic named Suphi Nejat Arnasl. He was killed in Kobani after he
volunteered to fight alongside Kurdish militants. His death shocking people who felt Istanbul was somehow insulated from the turmoil in the
Middle East.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never thought that someone from our university would actually go there and get killed. So, too, I never thought I was so
close to these situations, because it's so far away from Istanbul, but now it feels so close.
WATSON: A professor explains why the 30-year-old Turkish communist went to Syria to fight ISIS.
ZAFER YENAL, PROFESSOR, BOGAZICI UNIVERSITY: What's going on in Rojava, in Kobani today is basically kind of a struggle against barbarians,
basically, against people who have no sense of humanity, nothing.
(EXPLOSIONS)
WATSON: Turkey may be a member of NATO on Europe's border, but it's not immune to the passions that have ripped apart neighboring Syria and
Iraq, warns writer Hugh Pope.
HUGH POPE, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: Turkey is, after all, a neighbor to the Middle East. It has all the fractures that you have in the
Middle East, the sectarian Sunni, non-Sunni divide, the ethnic divide between Kurds and Turks, the political divide between Islamists and non-
Islamists. All these fault lines can break open in a very bad way.
(MUSLIM CHANT)
WATSON: Hundreds of Turks are believed to have joined the ISIS militants, among them, these fighters, who urge their countrymen to leave
Istanbul and come to Syria to defend fellow Sunni Muslims. In this majority-Muslim country, some Turks sympathize with ISIS. Among them, Ali
Osmansour (ph), a member of a revolutionary Islamist group who served prison time on terrorism charges.
"I support ISIS's methods," he tells me, adding, "ISIS is a natural response to American imperialism and to the persecution of Sunni Muslims by
Kurds and Shiite Muslims in Iraq."
This cycle of victimhood and violence is spreading, and threatens to engulf yet another country in this troubled region.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Istanbul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: To learn more about the history of the Kurds in the region and the role that they are playing in the battle with ISIS, "New York
Times" best-selling author Stephen Mansfield joins us, live from Washington. He wrote the book titled "The Miracle of the Kurds."
And Stephen, the cry that the time for a Kurdish nation is now is not a new one. In the big scheme of Kurdish history, how significant a period
is this?
STEPHEN MANSFIELD, AUTHOR, "THE MIRACLE OF THE KURDS": I think it's an absolutely dramatic and huge issue and time and season for the Kurds.
They have been denied nationhood since it was promised to them just after World War I. President Wilson's 14 Points, for example, urging autonomy
for the Kurds. It was denied through a variety of European treaties.
And so, this is a time in which the Kurds are on the forefront of a battle against ISIS, this -- as the professor said in your set-up piece, an
absolutely barbaric force. And also, it's the time when the West is beginning to understand the value of the Kurds in the Middle East. And so
this may be a very decisive moment in their history.
ANDERSON: How would you describe their value, sir?
MANSFIELD: Well, consider that in the medley of the Middle East, you have a people who are pro-democracy, who are largely pro-West, who are
largely positive towards Israel, and who have -- are practicing a more moderate version of Islam. This is one of the reasons that ISIS is upset
with them.
You have women on the Supreme Court in Kurdistan. You have a Christian department, an Yazidi department in the KRG, the Kurdish Regional
Government. So, this is a valuable people, for their own sake, their own history, their own culture, but in terms of the direction we'd like to see,
here in the West, the Middle East go, the Kurds are on the vanguard of it.
ANDERSON: When I interviewed the then-prime minister of Turkey back in July, Mr. Erdogan, he made that point that he has made efforts on
representation and, for example, on education for Kurds in Turkish society.
Clearly, his government has a problem with the groups associated with the PKK that he points out is designated by both Turkey and the US as a
terror group. Is this cynicism with which many viewers see in the intransigence over Kurds in Syria and in Iraq simply that, cynicism?
MANSFIELD: We can get a little tired of hearing Turkey, and Mr. Erdogan in particular, use the PKK as an excuse for inactivity. Last week,
the Turks were bombing their own Kurds. Just recently, they were forbidding their Kurds from crossing the border to fight in Kobani.
Now, think about this. This is simply allowing people to go fight with their kinsmen on the border of Turkey. It's no wonder that the
university students from Istanbul are wanting to go fight in Kobani.
And by the way, the US did exactly the right thing, ignored the objections of Turkey, went ahead and supplied the Kurds, and as a result,
we've seen a change, now, in Turkish policy and a strengthening of the Kurds to actually shift the game quite a bit in Kobani. So, yes, I think
that Turkey has hidden behind --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: And I put this, yes --
MANSFIELD: -- the misdeeds of the PKK for too long.
ANDERSON: Now, then I put this to you. How does the State Department deal with a designated group like the PKK and its associated franchises,
perhaps, or nationalist groups associated with that organization, going forward? Does it bring it into the fold, to the detriment of its
relationship with Turkey going forward, a NATO member?
MANSFIELD: Well, the PKK has been dramatically reduced in size and influence. I think that can be left as an internal Turkish-Kurdish matter.
There are other viable parties to deal with. I don't think we have to make the decision as to how the PKK should be dealt with directly anymore than
England has to make a decision as to how to deal with the Democratic Party here in the United States.
You deal with the nation, you deal with the people, you let them work out their own internal affairs. But I think that we have to be careful
about allowing Turkey to object to our support for the Kurds based on their bad history with the PKK.
ANDERSON: Stephen Mansfield, who wrote the book titled "The Miracle of the Kurds," live for you on CNN this evening on a story that is of
utmost importance, not just for this region, but around the world. Thank you, Stephen.
A little bit of healthy exercise -- not quite. We have a report for you coming up. Teasing you here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're with CNN, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Welcome back. Your Parting Shots this Monday. An event in
China aimed at promoting fitness was, well, anything but healthy on Sunday.
Many of the 30,000 people registered for the Beijing Marathon put on face masks, even gas masks just to get through the 42-kilometer run. The
pollution 16 times what is considered acceptable. Many runners bailed out before the race began. Other started but didn't finish.
Here at CONNECT THE WORLD, we congratulate them for even signing up. Perhaps they could try somewhere like Sydney or San Francisco next year.
We even have a triathlon here in the UAE.
The team at CONNECT THE WORLD wants to hear from you, facebook.com/CNNconnect, have your say. You can tweet me @BeckyCNN, we're
on Instagram as well, that's Becky CNN. And I'm Becky Anderson, of course that was CONNECT THE WORLD from the UAE, it's a very good evening.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
