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Connect the World
TransAsia Flight Crashes In Taipei; Jordanians Incensed Over ISIS Video of Pilot's Death; The State of The Coalition Against ISIS
Aired February 04, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I demand that revenge should be bigger than executing prisoners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: A father appeals, a nation responds. An eye for an eye just won't cut it in Jordan as the killing of a young pilot
prompts the king to call for earth-shaking retaliation.
We're going to get you live to Amman to examine the political public mood. And we'll explore the implications for the fight against ISIS.
Also ahead this hour, tragedy as a passenger plane crashed into a river killing at least 25 people.
And a tale of intrigue in Argentina deepens. We'll bring you the latest twist in the probe into what is this high profile prosecutor's
death.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: It is 8:00 in the evening. A very good evening from here.
Jordanians are now dealing with the nightmare that ISIS brought to their country through video some 24 hours ago. Many want vengeance after
learning their military pilot held captive by ISIS was burned alive inside a cage.
There have been protests like this one in Amman. There have also been prayers for the pilot.
King Abdullah, who is now back home from Washington says Moaz al- Kassasbeh gave his life defending his faith and his country. The pilot's brother says Jordanians must band together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAWDAT AL-KASASBEH, BROTHER OF PILOT KILLED BY ISIS (through translator): Now I call on all Jordanians to be in one rank and one person
united fearing for the land of our beloved country. We lived in Jordan and we will protect Jordan and we will die in Jordan. If god wills the
Arab army, the colleagues of Moaz will take revenge for Moaz al-Kasasbeh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, there has already been some measure of retaliation for the pilot's murder, too. al Qaeda-linked prisoners in Jordan were
hanged before dawn, including Sajida al Rishawi, the failed suicide bomber whose release ISIS had demanded.
Well, CNN's Barbara Starr has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: ISIS released a 22 minute video of Jordanian pilot Lieutenant Moaz al-Kasasbeh being burned alive in
a locked steel cage. CNN choosing not to show the gruesome video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's truly horrifying when you watch the video. That's meant to inflict terror.
STARR: Jordan announced the murder likely took place a month ago, soon after the 27-year-old's F-16 crashed in northern Syria, an ISIS
stronghold.
Recently, ISIS threatened to kill the pilot if Jordan didn't release Sajida al-Rishawi, the failed Iraqi suicide bomber who attacked a wedding
party in Jordan nearly a decade ago. al-Rishawi, one of the two already on death row, put to death by Jordan.
LT. COLONEL RICK FRANCONA, MIDDLE EAST COMMENTATOR: I think the executions were more to satisfy the demand for action of the king.
STARR: News of the pilot's death coming as Jordan's King Abdullah was visiting Washington.
In a message recorded before rushing home, the king called for Jordanians to, quote, "stand together and show the meddle of the Jordanian
people in unity determination and resolve."
President Obama and other U.S. officials expressing solidarity with its close ally in the U.S.-led military coalition to degrade and eventually
defeat ISIS.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: We're going to have a lot more on this story throughout the hour, including the answer to this pointed question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you seen people in the U.S. coordinating to launch an attack?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The head of the U.S. FBI's counterterror division will shed some light on that chilling possibility.
I'm also going to be speaking to a man who dealt with numerous foreign policy challenges during his time as Jordan's deputy prime minister Ayman
al-Safadi will join us with his perspective on what is this dilemma that Jordan is facing.
Let me get you to Amman now, though, and our Atika Shubert has been getting a sense of how the average Jordanian is feeling -- the anger, the
outrage there after what has been this horrific killing -- Atika.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, you can certainly feel it on the streets. We've seen spontaneous gatherings of
prayers, also support for King Abdullah as he arrives back from his trip to the U.S., which was cut short because of this brutal murder.
And right now it seems public opinion is unified in support of further military action against ISIS. And of course as you can imagine, the
toughest words coming from the family of that Jordanian pilot. Take a listen to what his father had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAFI AL-KASASBEH, FATHER OF PILOT KILLED BY ISIS (through translator): I demand that the government of Jordan avenge the blood of Moaz. These
were criminals. And there is no comparison between them and Moaz. His blood is more valued than Sajida Rishawi and Ziad Karbali (ph). Our demand
that revenge should be bigger than executing prisoners. I demand that this criminal organization DAISH (ph) should be annihilated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHUBERT: Now it's not as simple as what Jordan said in response to this killing that they would have an earth-shattering military response.
It of course needs to go through the various levels of the coalition before it's decided what strikes come next.
But perhaps more importantly politically King Abdullah must now -- is expected to go visit the Kasasbeh family in the village of Karak, which is
south of Amman. And this is important, because he needs the support not only of this family, but many prominent families across Jordan, many of the
tribes, support for Jordan's critical role in the ISIS coalition.
Remember, it has not always been unified. There had been some Jordanians up until now that have even joined the ranks of ISIS. But now
it seems public opinion has turned completely against ISIS. If King Abdullah can harness that, it may mean a much stronger response not only
from Jordan, but other key Arab allies in the region.
ANDERSON: Yeah, and that's what we're going to talk about next.
Atika for the time being, thank you.
Let us then get more reaction from inside Jordan and some answers to some of those questions we've been posing. Government spokesman Mohamed
al-Momani has spoken to King Abdullah within the past couple of hours and he joins us now on the line from the capital.
Jordan has vowed, as Atika pointed out, an earth-shaking retaliation. What do you mean by that?
MOHAMED AL-MOMANI, JORDANIAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: Hi, Becky.
In fact, since the news came of the murder of our pilot, the whole country and the government and the other institutions have been looking
into different options. We are very angered by what happened. And we are determined to serve justice and to make sure that those who committed this
atrocity will pay for it.
ANDERSON: OK, let's talk about what it is, then, so far as strategy is concerned next. Are you looking to intensify the mission? That's
certainly what's being reported. Can you confirm that?
MOMANI: What we are saying at this point that Jordan is actually coordinating with our brothers and our allies. And we will continue our
effort with strong determination to make sure that we succeed in our declared effort to undermine and to defeat ISIS.
The specific details of that will be left to the military and to the security agencies, but we are saying at the policy level that Jordan will
definitely continue to work and continue with strong determination pay -- ones who did what they did pay for it.
ANDERSON: Mr. al-Momani, let me press you on this. Are you talking in Jordan about putting boots on the ground against ISIS?
MOMANI: No. Actually, at this point our policy has not been putting boots on the ground. We have said that that boots on the ground will be
the Iraqi military, the Syrian moderate forces defy terrorism, the Peshmerga in the Kurdish area. So this is the type of boots on the ground
that we talked about and the coalition talked about. So nobody is talking about boots on the ground.
ANDERSON: So we've been promised by Jordan an earth-shaking retaliation. Moaz al-Kasasbeh's father called for the annihilation of ISIS
earlier today. When is the king planning to visit the family and tribal leaders?
MOMANI: His majesty cut his visit to the United States and came back. And the family of late pilot, of course, opened their house to condolences.
And all Jordanians are going there offering their condolences. And we are working on the details to see what would be the best way to do that for his
majesty.
ANDERSON: Is it likely in the next 24 hours?
MOMANI: We'll see. No timeline has been set for that. And the logistics of that has been in the making as we speak.
ANDERSON: I want to go back to any possible plans going forward. One former U.S. intelligence chief has described the Obama administration as
paralyzed and playing defense in its fight against Islamic militancy. Many people suggesting that the military strikes have failed. Have they? And
again I ask you, what should the world expect so far as an intensified coalition mission going forward?
MOMANI: Well, we said that airstrikes definitely some progress, maybe there should be more things, maybe different techniques to be followed, but
we are talking from the beginning that there will be a military campaign, that will be the immediate one and there will be a longer security campaign
to undermine and defeat ISIS. And there's a third front on the war on terror that is pertaining the ideological war on terrorism.
So, the airstrikes did some progress. And that's why I think we need to continue with that. And that's why we need also to keep in mind that
there are other fronts on the war in terror like security and ideological.
ANDERSON: Can I ask you, how was the king's mood at the meeting today with the prime minister? I know that you were in attendance.
MOMANI: Yes, in fact the whole country, Becky, is angry because of what happened. We are witnessing difficult moments for sure, but at the
same time there is a great sense of national unity, there's a great sense of national pride. There is huge support for our men in uniform. And we
are all rallying around them now in their effort to protect our country and the security of our country.
His majesty was actually telling us that we need to continue with the same level of coordination with the level of preparedness with the same
level of work that has been done over the last week in order to make Jordan continue with its efforts to fight this terrorism that is endangering our
interests and the security of our country and our soil.
National pride has (inaudible) and therefore he wants us to continue with that same level of work (ph).
ANDERSON: Last question to you, if you will. There have been reports that other members may be disunited so far as the coalition is concerned
within the sort of Arab bloc. How do you respond to that? And is everybody still in the air?
MOMANI: I'm sorry, I did not hear that question, Becky. Can you repeat please?
ANDERSON: There have been reports of a sort of fracture between the U.S. and Arab coalition members, suggestions that at least one country
isn't any longer flying sorties. Is this a coalition united at this point?
MOMANI: We think so. We think there is a very strong understanding among coalition members of the need to come together, to united together in
order to fight extremism and terrorism. We know this is a cross national threat that is threatening the security and stability and societies and
countries in the Middle East. And I think there is a strong understanding and conviction among coalition members of the need to continue to work
together to fight terrorism.
ANDERSON: So you're not concerned about the possibility of a fractured coalition with Arab members sort of going their own way as it
were?
MOMANI: We think that that understanding of the danger of terrorism and the application of terrorism, which was proven yesterday, that is a
very grounded understanding among coalition members and that's an issue that will continue to unite coalition members.
ANDERSON: And with that, sir, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us at what I know is a very
difficult time for your government and the people of Jordan. Thank you.
MOMANI: Thank you, Becky.
ANDERSON: Well, the death toll from a plane crash in Taiwan now stands at 26. Dramatic footage shows the TransAsia plane just before it
plunged into a river.
Those pictures are courtesy of CNN affiliate TVDS. And as you saw the plane grazed a bridge as it headed down into the water. It had just taken
off from Taipei with 58 people on board.
David McKenzie with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This dash cam footage from Taiwan is as incredible as it is horrifying. The extraordinary
scene from CNN affiliate TVBS shows the TransAsia ATR-72 shortly after take-off. Then, the unthinkable, the plane cartwheeling over an elevated
highway, slamming into a barrier and then crashing a passing taxi, ditching into the Keelung River below.
Fifty-eight passengers and crew were on board the flight, incredibly, they say, there were survivors of the crash escaping the sunken fuselage.
And the dramatic rescue scenes played out on live T.V. with more than 100 first responders rushing to the scene, desperately searching for more
survivors.
TransAsia officials say the plane was new and recently serviced. But this is the second deadly TransAsia crash in just seven months.
CHEN XINDE, CEO, TRANSASIA AIRWAYS (translator): I would like to express our deep apologies to the victims and our crews. Again, we express
our deep apologies.
MCKENZIE: Family members were left angry and distraught.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had to contact the airline first. The airline didn't pay attention to us. They're business confirming information. Their
attitude is terrible.
MCKENZIE: The reasons for the crash are unclear but the recovered flight data recorders should help investigators understand just what went
so horribly wrong.
David McKenzie, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LU STOUT: You're watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson out of Abu Dhabi. It's 17 minutes past 8:00 in the evening.
Still to come this hour, the latest twist in what is the mysterious death of prosecutor Alberto Nisman and the fallout Argentina's congress
considers legislation to dissolve the country's spy agency.
And Jordan's King Abdullah has returned home to Amman. The pressure he'll now face to further retaliate against ISIS for the killing of a
Jordanian pilot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All right. And jubilance scenes as Brisbane Airport in Australia as freed al Jazeera journalist Peter Greste arrived home after
more than 400 days in an Egyptian jail.
Greste and two colleagues were accused of aiding the blacklisted Muslim Brotherhood. The other two journalists are still in prison as you
may well be aware.
You're watching CNN. This is Connect the world with me Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Now calls for revenge are growing louder by the hour in Jordan after a fighter pilot captured by ISIS was shown on video being burned alive in a
cage. The Jordanian government promised an earth-shaking response or retaliation to the killing of the Lieutenant Moaz al-Kasasbeh.
Earlier Wednesday retaliation began with the executions of two convicted terrorists, including a woman whom ISIS had wanted freed.
But the pilot's father says those executions aren't enough. He wants Jordan to, in his words, annihilate ISIS.
Well, Jordan's King Abdullah has returned to Amman after cutting short his trip to the United States. He is already facing calls to further
retaliate against the militant group.
I want to bring in former Jordanian Deputy Prime Minister Ayman al- Safadi here with me now.
And when they talk about these extraordinary measures, this retaliation, earth-shattering. What do they mean? We've just spoken to
the government spokesman. He couldn't enlighten me in any way.
AYMAN SAFADI, FRM. JORDANIAN DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think we need to look at that within the context of the outrage that the whole of
Jordan feels now at the brutality of the heinous crime that was committed against Moaz al-Kasasbeh. They're angry. The country is angry. People
are outraged.
And you've got to place it again within the cultural context of this part of the world. This is the Middle East. People want justice. It is
against this backdrop that Sajida and Kabuli (ph) were executed today and implementation of a conviction that was made in a due process of law.
And I think now the army has promised to retaliate. The army has said it will come up with an earth-shattering response.
And I think Jordan will act as a state. It will definitely punish the...
ANDERSON: I guess the question is how?
SAFADI: How is -- I think nobody can answer that now. I think Jordan will determine the circumstances will choose the target and will choose the
right time to punish ISIS and their areas of operations, I think. I don't think it will be limited to the execution of those convicts. I think it
will -- within the coalition, in coordination with its allies, it will choose the right time, the right location and the right targets to exert
punishment on ISIS.
ANDERSON: Will they be looking to increase their strikes? Is that what you're saying?
SAFADI: I think definitely. I think there's been a lot of criticism within the region of those -- of this campaign. Six months into it, we
haven't really done much.
Yes, there's a lot of reports about having contained DAISH (ph), but we don't see that happening on the ground. It's growing more brutal. It's
able to recruit more. It's able to inflict more damage. And it's able to regroup and attack.
I think within the (inaudible) and there are calls for intensifying the effort, we cannot afford to three or four more years as particularly
the U.S. is saying, because in those four years you'll see ISIS growing stronger, you'll see it attracting more recruits, you'll see it benefiting
from the (inaudible) that Syria has become.
So I think within the region -- on the official level and on the popular level -- we need to resolve this and we need to dedicate more
resources and to really go after them strongly.
ANDERSON: Are those coalition members from this region united in that, do you believe?
SAFADI: Well, those who have joined the coalition have joined -- have joined it because they do believe that ISIS is a threat to their security
to their values to their people and to their faith. And accordingly they're extremely committed to that. But they want to see an end -- a
light at the end of the tunnel. They cannot just keep this (inaudible). They want to see more commitment and more work.
ANDERSON: Ayman, do you sense problems between the regional allies here and the United States, the White House at this point?
SAFADI: I think I would see probably divergence in policies, difference in how we should proceed. I think on the broader level
everybody is in agreement that ISIS is an enemy. It needs to be tackle. How do we tackle it, the speed with which we tackle it, the resources that
we deploy to tackle it is an area of discussion at this point whether in terms of dedicating more military resources, whether in terms of looking at
Syria and trying to find out a solution, because everybody here believes that you will not be able to end the threat of ISIS unless you find a
solution to the question in Syria.
ANDERSON: You, I know, are close to the administration here. I have to put a question to you. It has been reported today that the UAE, which
is a very strong coalition member, has been flying sorties over Syria, hasn't flown any sorties since the pilot was taken hostage in Iraq, the
Jordanian pilot.
Can you enlighten us on this?
SAFADI: Look, I'm not privy to details. I can only analyze. I think based on the public pronouncement and the position of the United Arab
Emirates we know it's at the forefront of the coalition, has committed its (inaudible).
Now under the broad commitment, I think within the coalition you might have conversations on what's being done. Are we doing enough? Are we
deploying enough resources? So these would be tactical differences that do not undermine the strength of the commitment to being part of the
coalition, but I think does reflect what I would believe again a regional sense here that the U.S. needs to do more. The report in the New York
Times is talking about the positioning of search and rescue aircraft, whether they're near enough to the operation -- the theater of operation or
not.
I think these are tactical questions, they are operational questions, which are legitimate to have I guess. And I think if any conversation had
happened to be within again the drive within the region to ensure that this war is more effective and the fighting conditions for the soldiers are
better, but do not in any way undermine the commitment to the fight against ISIS.
Because again, you need to look at it that countries of this region, people of this region, the majority of them at least, do believe in --
particularly after the heinous crime against Moaz. These are brutal animals that do not relate to Islam, do not relate to the culture and they
are afraid to us. They are here. They're not in the States and Europe. And therefore they want this fight to continue.
ANDERSON: Ayman, thank you for the time being. Ayman al-Safadi joining us live in Abu Dhabi.
This is Connect the World with more from our guests on the problem of tracking terror in Jordan. That is coming up. You get your news headlines
at the bottom of the hour. Those are about two-and-a-half minutes away. Do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible), come and see what we do.
JONATHAN MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Safist Tenarime (ph), a chemistry teacher in northern Rwanda, launched his cosmetic brand in
2013.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a company producing (inaudible) from local medicinal plant. This is our botanical garden where we (inaudible).
Before drying them and transforming them into our (inaudible).
The product (inaudible) and they (inaudible) disease.
MANN: Tenarime started making his products for a number of reasons, including helping his students see how chemistry can be applied to everyday
life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The second reason is to try to benefit my students, as the style of teacher in Rwanda is the law.
MANN: He launched his idea with little capital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I started this business by using $10. The $10 helped me to purchase the empty bottles to put my product in, to put the
product on the market, and two years later, my worth is about $30,000. I'm including equipment of the company.
MANN: In 2014, Jim Eremi (ph) says he won a local entrepreneurship award for his efforts. He now employs 12 workers, but he still faces
challenges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make known the product. As a little entrepreneur, I don't have the capacity to advertise my product. The second problem is
to import the bottles. In the culture today going back to producing such kind of bottles, and the cartons. So always we used to purchase them from
Kampala.
You know that to purchase a few cartons or a few bottles, it is very expensive for me. So, this is the challenge.
MANN: Despite this, Jim Eremi has high hopes for his herbal remedies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My future is to be the solution of some skin diseases in Africa. The reason why I created this business, by using a
local medicinal plant, not only to use traditional bottles or to be scientist who is going to make the solution of solving skin diseases by
using these local medicine plants.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. This is CNN, and these are your top stories this hour.
A spokesman for the Jordanian government says at this point, there are no plans to put boots on the ground to fight ISIS. His comment here on
CONNECT THE WORLD came just 24 hours after the militant group released a video showing a Jordanian pilot being burned alive. Jordan has so far
responded by executing two al Qaeda-linked prisoners in the wee hours of this morning.
At least 26 people are dead after a plane crash in Taiwan. Dramatic footage from CNN affiliate TVBS shows this plane clipping a bridge before
it plunges into a river. Fifty-eight people were onboard, fifteen of them have been rescued so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER GRESTE, FREED AL JAZEERA JOURNALIST: I'm a very, very happy man. I didn't think I'd be able to say. I imagined this many, many times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Freed Al Jazeera journalist Peter Greste jubilant at his arrival home in Australia. He spent more than 400 days in an Egyptian
jail, accused of aiding the blacklisted Muslim Brotherhood. His two colleagues are still in prison.
Well, it's deadline day in Yemen. On Sunday, Shiite Houthi rebels gave Yemen's political parties there days to agree -- three days to agree
on how to fill a power vacuum left by the resignation of the Yemeni president. The president, Abed Rabbo Mansour Hadi stepped down after the
rebels took control of the capital, Sanaa. Now, if an agreement isn't reached by today, the group has threatened to impose its own solution.
Well, law enforcement in Western nations are facing an uphill battle as they try to keep their homelands safe. One of the major challenges is
keeping tabs on people who travel abroad for terror training and then return home with sinister intentions.
Pamela Brown has what is an exclusive interview with the head of the FBI's counterterrorism division. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Have you seen people in the US coordinating to launch an attack?
MICHAEL STEINBACH, FBI'S COUNTERTERRORISM DIVISION: We have seen individuals collaborate, of course.
BROWN: In the US?
STEINBACH: Yes.
BROWN: So, are there ISIS cells in the US?
STEINBACH: There are individuals that have been in communication with groups like ISIL, who have a desire to conduct an attack, yes.
BROWN: That are living in the US right now.
STEINBACH: Correct.
BROWN (voice-over): Michael Steinbach, the head of the FBI's robust counterterrorism division says in many cases, these groups are a few
individuals who are loosely associated.
STEINBACH: I think the term sleeper cell is overly simplistic. I think the threat is much more complicated, much more diffuse.
(GUNFIRE)
BROWN: A frightening reminder of that type of threat -- the deadly Paris attacks. French citizens Sharif and Said Kouachi, trained by
terrorists, and their associate, Amedy Coulibaly, went on separate rampages.
BROWN (on camera): Are you concerned, in light of what we saw in Paris, that there could be an American here in the United States who may
have had similar training as the Kouachi brothers, who perhaps we didn't have visibility on?
STEINBACH: Of course I am. I'm worried about individuals that we don't know about that have training. I'm worried about individuals that
just see what happened in Paris or in other countries and want to follow with similar acts.
BROWN: Could you tell us how many Americans are right now fighting, training with terrorists overseas?
STEINBACH: I won't discuss numbers, I won't discuss specific numbers. I'll say that the FBI, in partnership with the intelligence community, we
tracked several buckets of individuals.
BROWN: Are you not telling us a number because you're not willing to, or because you don't feel confident that we know all the Americans who have
come and gone?
STEINBACH: The answer is both. I'm not telling you a number because I don't want to tell you a number, and I'm for sure underestimating the
true number. We know what we know, but there is a number that's greater than that that we don't know, just like our European partners.
BROWN: There was a case, Abusalha, the Florida man who went back and forth to Syria undetected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are coming for you!
BROWN: He ended up dying over there when he was fighting alongside al Nusra.
(EXPLOSION)
BROWN: Are there other similar cases like that, where we've sort of lost track of Americans going back and forth?
STEINBACH: I would be lying to say that there is not. Of course.
BROWN (voice-over): Steinbach admits US law enforcement alone cannot stop a deadly attack on the homeland.
STEINBACH: In the majority of cases, we know that someone recognizes that change in behavior, that radicalization. That family member or friend
chooses not to intervene. And by not getting involved, the story ends in a very similar fashion, and that's death.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, the number of foreign fighters in Syria and Iraq now more than 20,000. That is, at least, according to the research group ICSR,
which says that the majority of them come from the Middle East itself.
Now, the number of Jordanian foreign fighters puts that country in the top five of impacted nations in the region, along with Saudi Arabia and
Tunisia. It's clear why we're talking about Jordan. Ayman Safadi is the former deputy prime minister of Jordan, and he joins me -- or rejoins me
now.
Those numbers could be much bitter. I think 20,000, as far as anybody I speak to in this region is concerned, is a very, very low number. They
believe it's higher. How big a concern is the extremist within Jordan's borders?
AYMAN SAFADI, FORMER DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF JORDAN: I think it's a concern for the whole region. Within Jordan, yes, you do have
sympathizers. You do have those who want to go over or did go on to fight, to join ISIS in Syria or Iraq. But the numbers are limited. I think
they're under control, I think they're known.
The broader issue is within the regional issue. The ability of ISIS to pray on the anger, frustration, ignorance of those people, and therefore
offer itself to them as a way out of their misery, and then as a path to happen onto a better life.
I think we need to address this problem by more education, better sort of facing up to the ideology of those people. And that cannot be done on a
country level. It has to be done on a regional level through mosques and schools and all of that.
ANDERSON: I hear that, and I hear that message throughout this region. But we're talking about ISIS supporters not just leaving Jordan
that needed -- leaders need to worry about. I want to remind our viewers of some of the reporting by CNN's Jomana Karadsheh from Jordan last year.
The town of Ma'an is about 200 kilometers south of the capital Amman. You'll know this place, Ayman. It is -- this is a taste of what was going
on there last September.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For decades, the southern Jordanian city of Ma'an has been known as a
rebellious city, the center of violent anti-government riots and confrontations with security forces.
But perhaps the most worrying for Jordanians is scenes like this in recent months: small protests in support of ISIS. While many downplay
these demonstrations the streets of Ma'an tell a different story. Pro-ISIS graffiti is spray-painted across the city, like this one that reads ISIS's
leader, "Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is our prince."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Just months ago in broad daylight, Ayman.
SAFADI: Look, I know Ma'an very well, I know the city. ISIS supporters are very, very small numbers. These are pockets. If you even
look at the pictures, a lot of those marching were kids who probably were there just for the excitement of it.
Yes, there are problems. Yes, there are ISIS supporters. But these are not a threat. The majority of Jordanians do not support ISIS. There
was a poll a couple of months ago that at least put 70 percent of Jordanians see ISIS as a real threat to the country.
I will not worry about ISIS from within. I will worry, however, if the problem if ISIS continues in Syria and Iraq, if they're able to
consolidate in Syria, if they're able to send their message across to achieve more victories that would appeal to young, ignorant frustrated
people.
And that brings me back to the point, Becky, if I may, is that half- hearted efforts are not going to solve this problem. You've got to go full-gear on this. You've got to go for the jugular. Militarily, you've
got to dedicate more resources and go and deal with those people.
And politically, you've got to deal with the root causes of why this problem is continuing, particularly in Syria, and the financing of
terrorists, and actually the truth that recruits are being able to cross, whether in Syria or in Iraq, from Turkey and elsewhere.
ANDERSON: I hear your message, and I think it's pointed at Washington, sir. Thank you.
SAFADI: Appreciate it, thank you.
ANDERSON: Live from Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, Argentina's president wants to disband the nation's intelligence agency
after what was the controversial death of a high-profile prosecutor. But will Congress let Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner have her way? That is up
for debate.
Plus, a new twist in the probe of the prosecutor's death, and we'll tell you what investigators found in the trashcan of his apartment. You're
watching CNN, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: This is CNN, CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Welcome back, it is 45 minutes past the hour here.
The Argentine prosecutor found dead after accusing the government of an elaborate cover-up in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center may
have sent investigators a clue from beyond the grave.
Alberto Nisman drafted an affidavit seeking the arrest of the president of Argentina, Kirchner, before his mysterious death, but it was
never filed. The lead investigator says the document was found in the trashcan of Nisman's apartment.
Well, the discovery will likely stir up more conspiracy theories about this mysterious case. Drew Griffin of CNN's Special Investigations Unit
has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Slumped inside a bathroom of his 13th-floor Buenos Aires apartment, 51-
year-old Alberto Nisman was found dead, a bullet to his head, a 22-caliber pistol at his side. Initial accounts say it's suicide, but in a country
where politics are as intriguing and complicated as the national dance, the conspiracy theories begin to twirl.
At newsstands, at cafes, the conclusion is simple: murder, led in part by a controversial 61-year-old president, Cristina Fernandez de
Kirchner, who implies she knows it was no suicide, it's murder. And all part of a plot against her. But the question lingers: who would do that?
PATRICIA BULLRICH, DEPUTY, ARGENTINE CONGRESS: This is a very acute crisis, institutional crisis, because prosecutor has been killed, murder,
suicide, but he's dead.
GRIFFIN: Nisman was scheduled to testify in front of Congresswoman Patricia Bullrich's committee the very next day after he was found dead.
His report details allegations that she says if proven true would reveal a bombshell about the worst terrorist attack in Argentina's history,
pointing to a massive cover-up between Iran and Argentina's ruling administration, led by President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner. On
Saturday night, Bullrich talked to Nisman, calm and working, by phone.
BULLRICH: Fifteen hours later, he was dead.
GRIFFIN: Since his death, Nisman's nearly 300-page report has been released.
BULLRICH: The most important information in the investigation of Nisman is that the Argentine government want to take away the
responsibility of Iran in the bombing of AMIA. They want to destroy the investigation of the Argentine justice. That is the most --
GRIFFIN (on camera): You believe that's the core of what he found out?
BULLRICH: That is the core of the investigation of Nisman.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): To understand the magnitude of the charge, you have to go back 20 years to one of the darkest days in the history of
Argentina's Jewish community. On July 18th, 1994, a van loaded with 600 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer parked on this Buenos Aires street in
front of Argentina's Jewish Mutual Aid Society, known here by its initials, AMIA.
At 9:53 in the morning, the van exploded, killing 85 and wounding hundreds. Over the years, the investigation has mired in intrigue and
allegations of corrupt and incompetent police work. And finally, in 2006, one prosecutor issues arrest warrants for eight Iranian nationals, all by
now believed to have fled back to Iran. But after 20 years, no one has ever been brought to trial or even arrested.
GRIFFIN (on camera): It was the prosecutor, Nisman, who first accused Iran and Iran's former president of being behind the attack. And on the
eve of his death, it was the prosecutor now alleging his government and Iran were conspiring to cover it all up.
The allegation: cash-strapped Argentina would get Iranian oil. Iran would get Argentinean grain. And conveniently, this country's worst
terrorist attack would remain unsolved.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): For Luis Czyzewski, Nisman's death, suicide or murder, and news of a possible cover-up by his own government is yet
another blow in his 20-year search for justice.
GRIFFIN (on camera): This must have come as a complete shock.
LUIS CZYZEWSKI, LOST DAUGHTER IN 1994 ARGENTINE BOMBING: Si.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): His daughter, Paola, died in the bombing. She was just 21.
GRIFFIN (on camera): Are they willing to tell the truth? You don't know?
CZYZEWSKI: No lo se.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): The truth, the facts in the investigation into the prosecutor's death are hard to find. Nisman was under protection of
federal police, surrounded by bodyguards, but on the day before his death, he reportedly told those bodyguards, take the weekend off.
The investigating prosecutor's office, mobbed daily by a rabid press, has issued only tidbits of information on the killing, but those tidbits
have fueled endless media speculation. One report that says no gunpowder was found on Nisman's hands is what has most Argentineans convinced this
was a suicide made to look like a suicide. A murder, suicidio, is the new term, "suicided," no matter how impractical that may be.
GRIFFIN (on camera): The would-be assassin would first need to get through the security of the building, then get into the building itself,
finally getting in a coded elevator and up to the apartment, where you would have to get inside the apartment, kill Nisman in his bathroom, and
then back out while locking the door from the inside.
Sounds implausible? Yes. But this is Argentina. Nothing gets in the way of a good conspiracy.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Last week, President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner appeared on television in a wheelchair from her home to propose
yet another conspiracy. She believes the prosecutor's death was caused by rogue agents in Argentina's own spy community, and the rogue agents are
trying to create a murder mystery to incriminate her. She has announced plans to dissolve the nation's spy agency.
But suspicions here took another leap this weekend when it was revealed Alberto Nisman had drafted an arrest warrant for the president and
her foreign minister. Dated last July, it was found in his garbage can. Congresswoman Bullrich says all faith in Argentina's justice system has
been destroyed with one bullet.
BULLRICH: If the charge and the prosecutors that are investigating Nisman's death say that it was a suicide, nobody will believe it.
GRIFFIN: Drew Griffin, CNN, Buenos Aires.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, at this hour, Argentine lawmakers are debating that bill to dissolve the current intelligence service and create a new security
body. CNN's Shasta Darlington has been covering every twist in what is this complex story. She joins me now.
You'll have heard Drew's report, there, conspiracy theories clearly abound as much as fact on the ground. But is this legislation, at least,
that we know is being debated at this hour, likely to pass?
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, it is likely to pass, but it's really just another layer in this sort of
complicated plot. And that's because it was introduced by the president a week after Alberto Nisman was found dead. And because it came shortly
after she made those accusations that rogue spies had turned Nisman against here and could even be behind his death.
So, what critics are saying is this isn't a real attempt to reform a body that does need reforming. This is smoke and mirrors, this is to draw
attention away from the investigation.
And they even say that if you take a closer look, while the spy agency has gone through a lot of changes, it was -- it had a notorious role in the
Dirty War of Argentina during the military dictatorship, for example, during the last decade, it's been at the service of the president,
President Fernandez de Kirchner.
Critics will say they used -- that she has used the spies to follow her political enemies, the media, and her critics, so that it's cynical at
best that she's now talking about this big shakeup right now.
Today, the government, nonetheless, hopes that even though the opposition is boycotting the session that they'll get through the Senate,
and then it will still have to go through the House of Deputies.
And the changes, for the most part, aren't that big. The real change is going to be to the wiretaps, the telephone wiretaps, which will no
longer be controlled by the new spy agency, they'll be controlled by the attorney general's office, something that is generally seen as a good move.
But of course, it will depend who's in charge of the attorney general's office, Becky.
ANDERSON: Shasta Darlington on the story for you.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Coming up, what downed this drone? I'll tell you after the
break. Your Parting Shots follow this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Your Parting Shots. Stepping away from the horror of the headlines this hour, and your Parting Shots. Well, one very well-aimed
shot. The golfer in question, Jason Day, has no major title to his name, not yet at least. But look how he dealt with this drone.
Reports say the 27-year-old Australian was aiming for a peace of foam tied to the unmanned aircraft, but took out the drone mid-air instead. It
was all part of an Adidas commercial, so clearly, Jason Day one to watch. Don't let him, though, near your machines that fly.
I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD, thank you for watching. From the team here, it is a very good evening.
END
