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Connect the World
Pakistan International Airlines Flight Crashes Outside Abbottabad; Donald Trump Named Time Person of the Year; Syrian Government Forces Continues Push Into Aleppo; Aceh Province, Indonesia Hit With 6.5 Magnitude Earthquake. 10:00a-11:00a ET
Aired December 07, 2016 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:00:11] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to continue our mission to get the city back to its people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, HOST: A war of liberation to some, a countdown to annihilation for others. The Syrian army now controls most of east Aleppo,
but at what price for the civilians there.
CNN is the first western television crew inside the Aleppo old city since it was retaken. We'll have a live report in just a moment.
Also ahead, President of the divided states of America, that's Time's verdict on Donald Trump. A look at why he's their Person of the Year.
Plus...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I'm delighted to be here in Manamar (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Britain's prime minister looks beyond Brexit all the way to the Middle East. I'll ask one MP about concerns over arms sales to Saudi
Arabia.
Hello, and welcome to Connect the World. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones live in London.
And we begin the program in Pakistan where a plane carrying at least 40 people has crashed near Abbottabad. Now Pakistan International Airlines
says the aircraft lost contact with the control tower as it traveled from Chitral in the north to the capital Islamabad. And the pop star turned
preacher Junaid Jamshed was among those on board flight PK-661.
Now, CNN's producer Sophia Saifi joins me live now for more on this. Sophia, just update us if you can on the recovery operation that's
presumably now underway, and then the very latest from the scene of this crash.
SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PODUCER: Hannah, we've been informed by the National Disaster Management Authority that the ministry of information, the
military, they've all dispatched their helicopters to get the bodies from that crash and bring them to one specific hospital, one specific location,
where they will then be identified.
Unfortunately, because this crash took place in a very mountainous region of the country, the bodies have been badly burned, so they'll need to be
identified via DNA methods.
So, at the moment, we're being told that some bodies have been recovered, but it is nighttime
here. It is quite cold. And it is in a very tiny village around 40 kilometers away from Islamabad where
the recovery efforts are taking place -- Hannah.
JONES: Have we had any reaction, formal reaction now, from the government?
SAIFI: Yes. The prime minister has released a statement, kind of expressing his sympathy with the families, kind of expressing the grief
that this entire nation is feeling at the moment.
You mentioned earlier that a pop star, Junaid Jamshed was amongst the dead. He is a big, major, major -- he was a major star in this country, the
heartthrob of the '90s and the '80s, a big figure in Pakistani pop culture.
And his death -- the news of his death is now -- it's all over social media. People are sharing his music. Lots of famous politicians and
superstars are expressing their grief and sympathy with the many families, but also with the family specifically of Junaid Jamshed as well.
JONES: Sophia, just briefly, is there any clues yet as to why the aircraft came down?
SAIFI: There isn't yet. I mean, if you look at the history of this flight, Chitral, as you said in a very north -- northern part of Pakistan.
It is a short flight. It takes around 45 minutes to an hour to get from Chitral to Islamabad, the capital. However, this flight have often -- this
flight route is often marred by, you know, a mountainous flight route, bad weather. It is winter here. It is very foggy. So, there could be a
number of reasons why this crash has taken place.
But a formal investigation has not been launched into why this has taken place. At the moment, there are just rescue efforts underway -- Hannah.
JONES: Sophia, we appreciate the update on the situation there, live from Islamabad. Thank you very much indeed.
Now, in the past hour, western leaders have called for an immediate cease- fire in the city epicenter of Syria's war Aleppo. The joint statement from six countries, including the U.S., follows a call from rebels for a five-
day humanitarian break in the fighting. Heavy bombardment continues to pound the rebel-held eastern enclave in the city, and opposition fighters
are losing ground.
CNN's Frederick Pleitgen is the first western TV reporter inside the old city of Aleppo, where
thousands of civilians from the east are fleeing for help. Government forces now control most of the neighborhoods in eastern Aleppo.
Well, we're covering all angles of this ongoing crisis. Fred Pleitgen is hearing firsthand accounts the old city of Aleppo, as were just saying.
And Jomana Karadsheh has more from Amman in Jordan.
Fred, I want to bring in you first, if we can. Let's talk about this cease-fire that's been called for. How realistic or likely is any cease-
fire, given that it would surely allow rebel factions to regroup, and that's something that the Russians and the Chinese, seemingly, and
obviously, the Assad regime, would just simply not allow?
[10:05:42] FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think right now, a cease-fire is something that is pretty unrealistic. the
Syrian government, obviously, with all this momentum that it has at this point in time, has told the rebels that they want them to put down their
weapons and leave eastern Aleppo, go to Idlib, which is another part of Syria that's widely held by the opposition forces.
Now, the rebels, for their part, have said they're not willing to do that. But the Syrian government has said as long as the rebels don't leave, they
are going to continue to prosecute their campaign that's been going on.
Now, pf course, that's something that has caused thousands of people to flee the eastern districts of Aleppo, those besieged areas and some of
those areas that can have been won back by the Syrian government.
And it also brings with it, of course, that fierce air and artillery campaign that we've been seeing over the past couple days. Here's what
that looks like.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: This is Aleppo 24/7. Shelling and air strikes raining down mostly on rebel- held areas. Near the frontline it's not just Syrian
troops, Russians and Iranians battling on the government side.
We meet these Syrian/Palestinian fighters who show us what they claim was a former Jabhat al-Nusra field hospital they found when they advanced into
this area.
"Every injured rebel would be taken here," he says. "You see the medicine and blankets. This is one of their instruments they used."
Syrian pro-government forces have brought heavy weapons to the frontline as they continue to push the opposition back. They showed us these homemade
mortars and accused rebels of lacing them with chemicals the army says it discovered in this room close by.
This alleged weapons facility is inside what used to be an elementary school in this former rebel-held district. And the Syrian army says it
found this place when it was sweeping the area as rebels were retreating.
The battles show no sign of letting up as Syrian forces continue to pound rebel-held districts. Killing hundreds in the past days and leaving
thousands of civilians trapped and at risk.
In an interview with CNN, a Syrian general says government forces will not stop unless opposition fighters withdraw.
FAWAZ MUSTAFA, SYRIAN ARMY: If he insisted to go on fighting and bombing of our people in Aleppo and the civilians or the army, we have to continue our
mission to get the city back to its people.
PLEITGEN: And what that means is plain for everyone in Aleppo to see and to hear.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: And that's exactly, Hannah, what we've been seeing and hearing throughout the course of this day, as well. Syrian jets in the air
pounding those rebel positions on several fronts here in Aleppo. And as you've mentioned, the rebels, overnight, losing a lot of territory, a lot
of very significant territory.
Once again, with the Syrian government able to take most of the old town of the city which, of course, has a massive symbolic but also a massive
strategic value, as well, Hannah.
JONES: And Fred, stand by for us if you will. I want to bring in Jomana Karadsheh in neighboring Jordan now. Jomana, from the activists that
you've speaking to in Aleppo, are they celebrating the fact that this is almost a liberation now of their city?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hannah, whether it is the liberation or the fall of eastern Aleppo really depends on who
you talk to and on what side of the conflict they're on. The activists and some of the residents of eastern Aleppo that we've been speaking to are
certainly not celebrating. They are absolutely terrified of what might be in store for them next.
These are people who are now trapped in that small portion of eastern Aleppo that remains under rebel control. They say that the only option
that they are provided with, that they have, is to flee to regime-controlled areas, something that they are too afraid to do, out
of fear of retribution. And this is something that we have been hearing from people. They say that those who have fled, the thousands that we saw
fleeing to regime-controlled areas have done so out of sheer desperation, because of the humanitarian situation, because they have been living under
bombardment and also facing starvation.
But it's not necessarily support for the rebels, some tell us that it is out of fear from the regime.
One man that I spoke to today, this is a man that we've been speaking to for some time. He and his family are still in eastern Aleppo. And I asked
him, are you considering leaving. And he says leave to where? Regime areas? He says death would be much better.
And just to give you, Hannah, an idea of how unimaginable this scenario was just a couple of months ago, I remember asking a media activist in eastern
Aleppo say what would you do if eastern Aleppo is recaptured by the regime. And he said that could not happen, that the rebels will not allow eastern
Aleppo to fall. He said if that happens that means an end to the Syrian revolution.
[10:10:40] JONES: Jomana, thanks very much indeed.
Let's go back now to Fred Pleitgen who is live for us inside Aleppo.
Fred, you have this unique perspective, being one of the very few journalists on the ground there.
Do you think we've now reached a turning point from the people you've spoken to is the feeling that this is not necessarily good overcoming evil,
but at least the lesser of two evils finally grasping victory and ending the bloodshed?
PLEITGEN: Well, I'm not sure whether or not it's the lesser of two evils, or whether or not anybody would make that sort of equation.
But certainly, you do feel that this is very much a turning point here in the civil war here in Syria. Aleppo was by far and is by far the biggest
prize for both sides, for the rebels and for the regime as well. And really you can tell how much effort the government is putting into trying
to win this area back as fast as possible, prosecuting this offensive with, you know, a lot of air power, a lot of artillery power as well.
And one of the things that I have to say is, you know, there are a lot of people in these opposition-held areas who obviously are very scared of what
is going on right now. But we have also seen on the front lines today, people being evacuated by Syrian armed forces, people coming out and, for
first for the time, getting food and getting water, as well. So certainly, a lot of people are opting for that route, now that they seem to believe
that the morale of the rebels is waning, and also, that their own strength is really coming to its end.
There's a lot of people we saw, again, who were weak, who seemed very hungry, who seemed
very malnourished and who seemed tired of what's been going on over the past couple weeks as this offensive has been going on.
So, certainly, this really looks like a turning point, not just for Aleppo, but possibly for the Syrian civil war, as well, Hannah.
JONES: And Jomana Karadsheh still live for us in Amman in Jordan.
Jomana, one thing that I think maybe has been lost over the course of the last couple of months, couple of years, perhaps of this Syrian civil war,
is who exactly the rebels are.
Are we talking about civilians who are trying to fight against a despotic tyrant in Bashar al-Assad, or are we dealing with jihadis who are set on
terrorism?
KARADSHEH: Well, depends on what part of the country you're looking at. There are so many different groups. You're talking from the moderate
opposition groups under the banner of the Free Syrian Army. You've also got Islamist groups. You've got, also, extremist jihadi groups.
So, many different forces fighting against the Syrian regime. If you look at eastern Aleppo,
there are Islamist groups there fighting. There are some jihadi groups. But also a large number of Free
Syrian Army moderate opposition fighters also in that part of the country.
Of course, we've heard the Syrian regime over the years and their Russian allies describing all opposition fighters as terrorist groups. And they
have been pushing. They have been asking for these groups to be separated. You want to separate the extremist groups from the moderate groups. And
this has been such a contentious issue. It has lead to a breakdown of talks between Moscow and Washington over recent months as we have seen.
But it's not as simple as that. The reality on the ground, it's a very complex situation. These forces do join each other. They joins forces
when they are battling the Assad regime and their allies on the ground in different parts of the country. So it will be very difficult to try and
separate these groups from each other as they really tend to blend in and merge together in this fight that is so complex, Hannah.
JONES: Certainly complex.
Jomana Karadsheh live for us there in Amman in Jordan. Thanks very much indeed.
And also our thanks to Fred Pleitgen who is one of the few western journalists who is inside Aleppo.
Now, here's a victory against all odds, stunned America and the world, and he's only getting started. Time magazine has now named Donald Trump as his
person of the year for uprooting politics as usual and blazing a new populist path.
The annual distinction is not an endorsement, though. Time says it recognizes the person who has had the greatest influence for better or
worse. It's critique of Trump is scathing at times, saying he has magnified divisions inspiring new levels of anger and fear.
Time writes, quote, "he proved that tribal instincts never die, that in times of economic strife and breakneck social change, a charismatic leader
could still find the enemy within and rally the masses to his side."
Though Trump, for his part, says being named Person of the Year is a great honor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, when you say divided states of America, I didn't divide them. They're divided now. I mean, there's a lot of division and we're going to
put it back together, and we're going to have a country that's very well- healed and we're going to be a great economic force and we're going to build up our military and safety and we're going to do a lot of great
things. And it's going to be something very special.
But, to be on the cover of Time magazine as the Person of the Year is a tremendous honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:15:48] JONES: Well, Donald Trump is busy against today, building his new administration. Just a short time ago, he announced that the governor
of Iowa is to be his choice for ambassador to China.
Let's get more now on the days developments from Jessica Schneider who is live outside Trump Tower in New York for us.
Jessica, it's been a good week for Donald Trump. Named Person of the Year and has also managed to seal some deals along the way as well. Is he right
to be feeling bullish right now?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Donald Trump is promoting those bullish ways.
You know, it's only Wednesday, but it's already been quite a week for Donald Trump. Of course, he railed against Boeing yesterday saying that we
should cancel the order for Air Force One, that the U.S. government should do that. Then he introduced a Japanese businessman who said as part of
Softbank would promote, or would pour $50 billion into the U.S. economy, creating 50,000 jobs. And then of course last night, it was down to that
thank you rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina. It was the second stop of this thank you tour. And while he was there, he continued to promote his
America first priorities, saying that he wants to strengthen the military, unite this country, which is the
second time we've heard him say that, and he also wants to focus on American jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We will have two simple rules when it comes to rebuilding this country: buy American and hire American.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Taking his "America first" message to North Carolina, the president-elect vowing to protect American jobs.
TRUMP: We will defeat the enemy on jobs, and we have to look at it almost as a war.
SCHNEIDER: Donald Trump, once again, taking aim at corporate America. The president-elect spent much of Tuesday criticizing a government contract
with Boeing to build a new Air Force One. Trump tweeting, "Costs are out of control. More than $4 billion. Cancel order."
It's unclear why Trump attacked Boeing, America's largest exporter, or where Trump even got that hefty price tag. Boeing says it currently has a
$170 million development deal to study the new aircraft.
TRUMP: I think Boeing is doing a little bit of a number.
SCHNEIDER: Trump also touting his deal-making skills, claiming credit for a months-old pledge by Japanese telecom giant SoftBank to invest $50 billion
in the United States aimed at creating jobs. Details of the deal have not been released.
TRUMP: Masa, great guy of Japan. He's pledged that he's going to put $50 billion into the United States because of our victory. He wasn't investing
in our country. Fifty billion, 50,000 jobs.
SCHNEIDER: Staying largely on message, a more controlled Trump promising to fight terror and increase military spending.
TRUMP: In my first budget report to Congress, I am going to ask for the elimination of the defense sequester.
SCHNEIDER: Trump officially announcing his secretary of defense pick, General James Mattis.
TRUMP: Mad Dog plays no games.
SCHNEIDER: Touting his credentials as a four-star general, NATO commander and his leadership during Desert Storm.
MATTIS: I look forward to being a civilian leader, so long as the Congress gives me the waiver and the Senate votes to consent.
SCHNEIDER: All this coming on the heels of a shakeup in the Trump transition team. Trump firing the son of national security aide, retired
Lieutenant General Michael Flynn for pushing a baseless conspiracy theory that led a man to fire a rifle inside a Washington pizza shop. Jake Tapper
grilling the vice-president-elect over security clearances requested for Flynn's son.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: You're downplaying his role, but you must be aware that the transition team put in for security clearance for Michael G.
Flynn, the son of Lieutenant General Flynn. PENCE: Well, I'm aware in talking to General Flynn that -- that his son was
helping the scheduling, Jake.
TAPPER: No, but you put in for security clearances for him.
PENCE: He's helping his dad arrange for meetings and provide meetings. But that's no longer the case.
TAPPER: But do you need security clearance just to do scheduling?
PENCE: I think that's the appropriate decision for us to move forward.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: So, a lot happening. We're expecting a lot more to unfold with the Trump transition over the next few days, then the next week. In fact,
Kellyanne Conway, Donald Trump's top adviser, saying that even today, we could expect the announcement of two ambassadorships, also potentially the
the heads of EPA and the Department of Homeland Security named.
We do already know that Donald trump has offered the position of U.S. ambassador to China to the governor of Iowa.
But of course we're all intrigued by who he will pick for secretary of state. Donald trump saying this morning that the former Massachusetts
Governor Mitt Romney and former presidential contender is still very much on his list, very much being considered and Donald Trump could make an
announcement as to the secretary of state position next week -- Hannah.
[10:20:30] JONES: And Jessica, if you dare predict, and I guess most probably wouldn't in the current situation with this transition team, but
when exactly and who might we get to hear of for this secretary of state position? It's not just Mitt Romney who is in the running.
SCHNEIDER: Right. Well, that's the interesting part, Hannah. Over the past few weeks, there has been a lot of intrigue over this position and as
such, the names have been continually added to this list. It's been a growing list. In fact, in the past few days, we've heard names like
General David Petraeus who, of course, pleaded guilty to mishandling classified information. We also heard the name Rex Tillerson Exxon CEO.
Donald Trump even mentioned him again this morning, calling him a great man.
Tillerson met with Donald Trump here at Trump Tower earlier this week. We've also heard the name Jon Huntsman, former Utah governor, also former
U.S. ambassador to China. So, a lot of names floating in the orbit.
And when Donald Trump was asked, is he floating these names out there to kind of toy with
people, particularly Mitt Romney, Donald Trump said, no, this is not revenge. This is about what's doing best for the country. And he is
promising we could hear potentially sometime soon. He says likely next week -- Hannah.
JONES: Jessica, appreciate it. Jessica Schneider outside Trump Tower for us.
Now, in the next couple of hours, CNN's Van Jones looks back at what happened in the 2016 election for a CNN special called The Messy Truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, here we are in Ohio. As you know, Ohio went for Trump. We're going to go to one of the bluest counties, Trumbull
County, which since 1976 has always voted for the Democrat until this year and they voted for trump. I'm baffled. I'm bewildered. We have to figure
it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: And you can watch that and a town hall with special guest Michael Moore, Rick Santorum, and Ana Navarro, that's The Messy Truth with Van
Jones at 9:00 p.m. in London, that's 4:00 p.m. eastern time.
Still to come on Connect the World this evening, emergency crews search for survivors after a powerful earthquake hits Aceh Province in Indonesia.
And the British prime minister is in Bahrain for a gathering of the oil- rich Gulf states. We look how Mrs. May is looking to strengthen the UK's defense and economic ties with the region.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:25:04] JONES: You're watching CNN. And this is Connect the World. I'm Hannah Vaughn Jones in London. Welcome back.
To Americans, December 7 is a day that lives on in infamy: Pearl Harbor Day. It the day the U.S. commemorates 1941 Japanese attack on the U.S.
navy base in Hawaii 75 years ago. Historians call it the turning point that drew the U.S. into World War II. More than 2,400 Americans were
killed in the attack, that's according to the U.S. National Park Service, 21 American ships and 188 aircraft were deployed.
The site of the sunken USS Arizona now serves as a memorial, visited by more than 1.6 million
people every year. And flags across the U.s. are still lowered to half- staff every December 7th.
Well, in the next couple of hours, commemorations will mark the anniversary, but some say that damage done will never truly heal.
Kyung Lah speaks to one veteran who stared death in the face as the attack began.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ask B.C. Wilborn the secret to living to age 95 in good health; he'll stay the love of a vibrant hobby
like horse racing and a lot of experience in surviving.
Do you think I'm a war hero?
B.C. WILBORN, WORLD WAR II VETERAN: No, no, gosh. You see just the opposite. You think what you could have done or didn't do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Japanese have attacked Pearl Harbor.
LAH: Seventy years ago, Wilborn stood aboard the USS Maryland as the Japanese launched an early morning attack on Pearl Harbor.
Wilborn, just a 20-year-old first class petty officer in the navy.
What did it feel like to be in the middle of that?
WILBORN: I didn't have no fear. I've seen everything happening. Ad it seemed like unreal.
LAH: Daughter Edie and her husband Ron.
EDIE STANTON, WILBORN'S DAUGHTER: They pay a big price for us to be free.
LAH: How old were you?
WILBORN: I was 24, 25.
LAH: They had pictures and saw their father's Purple Heart. But Wilborn never talked about World War II until, for reasons no one can explain, a
few years ago.
E. STANTON: Just started talking.
RON STANTON, WILBORN'S SON-IN-LAW: Just started talking. I'm sad to say I didn`t have a tape recorder to get it.
LAH: And he hasn't stopped talking. Wilborn sharing horrors the men he couldn't save aboard the capsized USS Oklahoma.
WILBORN: And you hear tapping on the wall, people in there I guess thinking they are going to get rescued. After about two days, maybe on the third
day, stopped. No more.
LAH: More than 400 men died on the Oklahoma. Seventy years later, you can still recall that sound.
WILBORN: Oh, gosh, yes. And I thought it was about the saddest thing I saw in the Navy. Because I don't know, you seem so helpless.
LAH: Unlike many survivors, Wilborn never went back to Pearl Harbor. That's changing this year, 75 years later, he's returning for the first time since
the day of infamy.
What changed? Why did you start thinking about it?
WILBORN: It's a sad day. And but, I don't know. You try to get it out of your mind and it didn't go.
LAH: So this survivor faces one last battle of his own memories.
Kyung Lah, CNN, Collinsville, Illinois.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Well, Japanese's prime minister will make an historic trip to Pearl Harbor later this month. Shinzo Abe will be the first Japanese leader to
visit. He'll go alongside the U.S. President Barack Obama in what is being considered a hugely symbolic visit.
We will have the latest world news headlines for you just ahead.
Plus, I'll be speaking to the assistant managing editor of Time magazine as they name Donald Trump their person of the year.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(HEADLINES)
[10:32:51] JONES: A 6.5 magnitude earthquake has killed nearly 100 people in Indonesia's Aceh Province. Rescue workers are still searching for
survivors in buildings destroyed by the quake. Aceh Province was devastated by a massive earthquake and tsunami back in 2004.
Well, rebuilding from the 2004 disaster took years. Now, Aceh Province is again confronting the aftermath of a major quake. Rosemary Church reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a region living in the shadow of the deadliest earthquake to hit the planet in decades. The
people of Aceh Province in Indonesia are understandably unsettled by this latest tremor, which reduced buildings to rubble and appears to have left
hundreds homeless. The powerful quake struck in the early hours of Wednesday, roughly 120 kilometers south of Banda Aceh, on the northern tip
of the island of Sumatra.
This footage from the town of Pidijaya reveals widespread destruction with many residents spilling onto the streets as the injured were lifted to
safety on stretchers. Amid the chaos, one minor blessing as officials declared no threat of a tsunami. But fear still haunts this part of the
world, where just 12 years ago at least 120,000 people were killed in Aceh Province alone. As the death toll rises from Wednesday's quake, the
displaced wait on the roadside for relief and pray that aftershocks bring no further damage.
Rosemary Church, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May is attending a summit at the Gulf Cooperation Council in Bahrain, and pledging $3.8 billion in defense
spending over the next decade.
Take a listen to part of her address.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAY: The United Kingdom will make a more permanent and more enduring commitment to the long term security of the Gulf. We will invest in hard
power with over 3 billion pounds of defense spending in the region over the next decade, spending more on defense in the Gulf than in any other region
of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:35:09] JONES: Well, in addition to the bolstering military cooperation, the prime minister hopes to build a new trade agreement with
Gulf coutnries for a post-Brexit Britain. Mrs. May is the first British prime minister to attend such a summit and the first woman to address the
gathering altogether.
So, for more on Britain's ties with the Gulf, I'm joined by the Conservative MP, Nadhim Zahawi. He is a member of the foreign affairs
select committee in the UK's parliament. Welcome to you. Thank you for joining us on Connect the World.
This is obviously a historic moment for Theresa May, as we just mentioned, but how fine is
the line that she's going to have to tread between bolstering Britain's interests, but also raising human rights abuses where she sees them?
NADHIM ZAHAWI, BRITISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Well, clearly, the GCC are an important ally, both in terms of trade, as you mentioned, but also
culture,education and, most importantly security. We have a very strong and deep relationship on security with the UAE, with Saudi Arabia, many of
the terrorists attempts in our own country have been thwarted with that cooperation on security with Saudi Arabia and other members of the GCC.
JONES: Well, the flip side of that, though, would be that some would argue you can spend all this money on strengthen security and defense and
improving the infrastructure there, but that only serves to actually be misused in the future by potentially despotic leaders or people who are
fighting against activists for pro-democracy.
So, where does Britain draw the line there, between bolstering up people we don't want to bolster and also expanding our own infrastructure?
ZAHAWI: And that's a great question.
So, when Bahrain had some of its difficulties with protesters, they asked for help from the
United Kingdom, where we sent experts in policing to, one, write an independent report as to where they went wrong, and then set a clear
criteria and some, you know, real actionable points that they can do to better deal with process in a way that we would recognize as the correct
way. And they've implemented much of that. There is a long way to go.
With Saudi Arabia, which I'm sure we're going to get to in our conversation...
JONES: We will.
ZAHAWI: We have a contract to train the Saudi police force. Now, the question then arises, is it right to help the Saudi police force? In my
view, as the member of the foreign affairs committee and looked at this very carefully, it is, because if we can share best practice with the Saudi
police force, make them work in a way -- the same as what I recognize as the best police force in the world works, the police force in our own
country, in the United Kingdom, then that's a good thing.
JONES: But I'm wondering what the priority is though.
ZAHAWI: Isolating these countries and just beating them up, I think, is the wrong action, but being robust with them, as our ambassadors and
ministers do, as our prime minister does, i.e. you don't shy away from the tough conversations about human rights, is the correct way of doing it,
because otherwise, where do you -- do we not deal with China, do we not deal with other parts of the world?
JONES: No. But there is a lot of evidence at the moment of the situation in Yemen, for example, and the Saudi involvement there. Evidence of
potential war crimes going on. Where does Britain -- what does Britain prioritize? Is it money and trade and arms deals and the like, or is it
human rights abuses and justice?
ZAHAWI: Well, the priority is to do both.
JONES: So there's not one or the other?
ZAHAWI: Let me give you an example. On Yemen, which you rightly raised, absolutely right that your viewers think about what is happening in Yemen.
Yemen's war was sanctioned by a UN security council resolution. It is conducted by a coalition, which is led by Saudi Arabia. The Saudi foreign
minister came to our parliament to talk to us about all the checks and balances they're putting in
place.
At the same time, they're saying, look, of course we've made mistakes. But the question you have to ask yourself is were those mistakes deliberate?
Did the Saudi regime deliberately target women and children?
No, I don't believe the evidence leads you there. Nevertheless, we, as many other countries, who consider ourselves to be allies of the GCC, the
Gulf Cooperation Council, will say to Saudi, well, you have to allow the United Nations to investigate some of the mistakes that have taken place so
that we can be certain that you are prosecuting this war correctly.
But that war was actually, essentially, backed by a UN resolution.
JONES: Yeah, and that's all very good and well, but even if we don't know that, say, for example, Saudi Arabia were deliberately were targeting women
and children or hospitals or whatever it might be in Yemen, the latest figures that we have is just in the first year of the war alone, there were
$4.2 billion in arm sales to Saudi Arabia. Whether you're pinpointing targets, children or not, $4.2
billion mean there's going to be a huge amount of weaponry at your disposal and, as a result, a
huge amount of bloodshed, and that's on our conscious.
[10:40:09] ZAHAWI: Well, let me sort of correct one thing you said is there is no evidence whatsoever that the Saudi regime was deliberately
targeting women andchildren and innocents. There is zero evidence.
We looked at this in my committee, the foreign affairs committee, very closely. There is no evidence of this.
Now, there is a court case in process. And if the court finds otherwise, then we'll obviously, my committee, will have to respond to that. My
committee holds the government's feet to the fire on this, because we're the foreign affairs select committee, we hold the foreign office to account
on this.
But currently, there is no evidence that the Saudi regime actually deliberately targeted innocent civilians in Yemen.
JONES: OK. We are running out of time and I want to ask you about Brexit, of course, because Mrs. May, Theresa May, having to sort of reposition
Britain, looking out outside of the European Union at the moment. How important is this meeting and the conference that she is addressing, in
terms of furthering Britain's interest outside of the EU?
ZAHAWI: It's hugely important. I was in the UAE, in Dubai, specifically on an official
visit to look at what that part of the Emirates was actually doing in terms of their ambition. And they left us no doubt that the UAE would like to
have much deeper trading relationships. The GCC are one of the biggest investors in the United Kingdom and they want to do more, so it is right
for my prime minister to go, as the first British prime minister, first female to
address the GCC.
Those sort of trading relationships with the Middle East, with America, with China, with India, are going to be incredibly important to the United
Kingdom and for jobs in the UK.
JONES: OK. We have to leave it there. Nadhim Zahawi, thanks very much for joining us
on Connect the World. We appreciate it.
Now, the Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi has announced he will step down in a few hours
from now. Mr. Renzi offered his resignation to the Italian president on Monday, but at the time he was asked to stay on until the budget was
approved. He will now need to formally resubmit his resignation.
The resignation itself came after voters rejected constitutional changes.
In the run-up to the referendum, millions of people shared fake news stories online. That's been a familiar problem, one that seems to be
getting much worse. Our Nina Dos Santos has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN MONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Twenty-seven-year-old Giovanni has only ever voted for one party, Beppe Grillo Five Star Movement.
GIOVANNI PIETRANTONIO, MILAN RESIDENT: So this is the page of Five Star Movement and they will put like.
SANTOS: For millennials like these, swirling the ranks of Italian populism, the party's vast online presence is a big draw. And to capture their
attention, its media machine must deliver. What makes you click on a story?
PIETRANTONIO: The title and the image. And I will click to read the news.
SANTOS: The trouble is, some of the five-star links have little or no link to the truth. Like these allegations that Ukraine is running concentration
camps made by a five-star lawmaker in parliament and broadcast on the movement's YouTube channel.
And this claims that the U.S. is funding the trafficking of migrants to Italy made by the popular pro Five Star blog TzeTze. There is no proof of
either of these stories being true, but both were widely shared.
Grillo's blog, with more than 2 million followers is managed is managed by this man, Daddy di Casaleggio (ph).
SANTOS: And it's from these offices in Milan's exclusive fashion district that Casaleggio runs that blog, as well as the network of anti-
establishment and click bait websites whose content is then spread via social media.
Also at the same address, a link to organizations set up to source party funds, which runs the official Five Star Movement blog, a site which has
also run false articles. Casaleggio declined CNN's request for an interview or comment, referring as to the party and one of its elected officials told
CNN.
LUIGI DI MAIO, FIVE STAR MOVEMENT, POLITICIAN, (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): When it comes to social media, we are leaders there. We know how to manage this.
If there have been errors, we apologize. But absolutely it's not intended and not part of our policy.
SANTOS: And Italy's fake news scourge doesn't end there. Fact checkers at this online journal examined the 10 most shared social media posts in the
lead up to Italy's referendum, and found half of them to be inaccurate or misleading.
DAVIDE DE LUCA, JOURNALIST, PAGELLA POLITICA: I think it's a problem. In Italy like many other countries, in Italy trusting traditional media is
quite low even lower than other countries.
SANTOS: Giovanni knows there's fake news out there and says he tries to be vigilant. But the temptation to share a politician's post before reading it
in full is always there.
PIETRANTONIO: Put the like is for example in this image and share.
SANTOS: But you haven't read that yet. You just like the image.
PIETRANTONIO: Yeah of course.
SANTOS: There's about four paragraphs before it. But you haven't read it.
PIETRANTONIO: Yes, sometimes I read it.
[10:45:02] SANTOS: And thus the cycle continues.
Nina dos Santos, CNN, Milan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Live from London, this is Connect the World. Coming up on the program, president of the divided states of America: that's how Time
magazine describes Donald Trump, their Person of the Year. I'll be speaking to the magazine's assistant managing editor coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENITIFIED FEMALE: If you've traveled internationally, you've certainly seen them: duty free shops where taxes are waved on purchases of luxury
products, ranging from cosmetics to alcohol and tobacco. It can be overwhelming when trying to find the best deal and catch your flight at the
same time. So, one African start-up is looking to change that.
The business model is simple: but Airshop is really taking off.
UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Air Shop (inaudible) all travelers to pre-order duty free goods and pick it up on the day of travel at the airport or in the
plane directly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Francis Upopi (ph) is the founder and CEO of Airshop, a mobile app aiming to streamline the duty free shopping experience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think of Airshop as important, because Duty Free is not as great as it could be. A lot of (inaudible) opportunities happen
every day in every country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Duty Free is big business. Sales worldwide are expected to top $73 billion by 2019.
Travelers from Asia and Africa drive much of the Duty Free market, which is why Upopi (ph) moved Airshop's headquarters from France to his hometown of
Abidjan in the Ivory Coast.
But that presented its own unique set of challenges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, the start-up communities make exchanges. They know about (inaudible). But they have no
idea of what is happening here.
That was one of the biggest things. And the fear is for them is like, they don't look for opportunities here, because they don't speak the language,
they don't understand the system. They think it is really different, when it is not that different. We are much more the same than different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Upopi (ph) first had the idea for the Airshop app in 2012, ramping up development a year later. Initial capital was $30,000.
Upopi says primarily spent in business and research development, a commission-based business model means a portion from every purchase on the
app either with an airport based shop, or an airline, will go to Airshop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duty Free is a big business. And we needed to prove that we were able to handle that kind of business with them, like a lot of
logistics, a lot of payments and a lot of value for the companies. So one of the biggest things was to bring on board one of the biggest companies in
the world.
So -- and we successfully did it.
[10:50:07] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The app is still in the beta stage, but already Air France has signed on with Airshop, a huge win for the growing
start-up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) at some point we just enable people to make great purchases and really optimize (inaudible).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: President of the divided states of America, that's what Time magazine calls Donald Trump, its new person of the year.
Time says some Americans revere Trump as rebuke to an arrogant governing class. But it says others are revolted, believing he has poisoned politics
with, quote, vile streams of racism and sexism.
Hello again, you are watching CNN. This is Connect the World. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones in
London. Welcome back.
Let's get more on Time's choice of Person of the Year. We're joined by Ben Goldberger, who is the magazine's assistant managing editor. Ben, great to
have you on the program. Thank you for joining us.
We've gone from Angela Merkel last year for her leadership at the EU and open door policy to
refugees, to now Donald Trump this year. How the world has shifted.
BEN GOLBERGER, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, TIME: I think that's exactly right. In fact, it really speaks to the pendulum that has swung across not
just the United States, but much of the entire world.
What we've seen certainly here, absolutely in the UK, across much of Europe, is the seeds of
a real populist revolution.
JONES: What criteria, then, did you have to weigh up in picking Donald Trump?
GOLDBERGER: So the criteria is actually relatively straight forward. We determine who has had the greatest influence over the news and the world
over the previous year for good or for ill. And the last part is especially critical.
And while I think the debate over whether his influence is good or ill is especially divisive. The
question about about his influence is not. That struck us as straight forward as it gets.
JONES: You have to tell us who he was up against, because it wasn't just other world leaders, was it? We had sports stars, we had tech
entrepreneurs.
GOLDBERGER: We consider virtually everybody, the entire range of what Time covers. So taht means scientific figures, sports stars, cultural icons,
and certainly world leaders. So, in this case, Donald Trump was up against, well, his rival, Hillary Clinton, who he beat for the White House
but not in the popular vote.
But also the Crisper scientists who are pioneering a potentially world changing form of DNA
editing, the hackers who -- this was the year in which what had long had been a concern for cyber security experts really exploded into a matter of
national security, of finance, of personal privacy.
And then also Beyonce. It was -- and Erdogan.
JONES: The actually article itself is quite scathing, as is the headline, the president of the divided states of America. Rather than an accolade,
is this more of a challenge to the president-elect? You've won the election, but the task ahead is huge.
GOLDBERGER: I think it is indisputable to say that the United States are divided right now. Trump did win the Whitte House, but not with anything
close to a uniform majority. There is a lot of dissent in this nation, and if one were to take a look at the electoral college results, it speaks to a
union that is anything but united at the moment.
And it is something that he himself ahs acknowledged. And while he doesn't accept any culpability for that division, he does recognize that the nation
is not one at the moment.
[10:55:03] JONES: And he is also honored by being named your Person of the Year.
Ben Goldberger, we appreciate it. Thanks very much indeed for you joining us.
GOLDBERGER: Thank you.
JONES: Now, ever heard the theory that seven other people out there look just like you? Well, a photographer Francois Brunnell (ph) put this to the
test. In tonight's Parting Shots, doppelgangers from around the world come together for this one of a kind project.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENITIFIED MALE: Smile.
I had the idea of finding lookalikes and bringing them together.
I'm always fascinated to see these people come together and, at some point, they get the same
smile or the same serious face.
It's always touching to see these people getting in sync.
If you look carefully at each one of these pictures, you will realize that these people sometimes are strangers. They're very close, emanates a kind
of peace.
I was short of a subject. So, I went to the media and asked for help. I got these emails by the
thousands there are really now about 230 pictures.
My name is Francois Brunnell (ph) and these are my parting shots.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: And we're almost at the end of the show here. But before we go, don't forget to check out our Facebook page for stories we've brought to
you today and others that we're always working hard to get to you. You can go to Facebook.com/CNNconnect.
And, of course, you can always get in touch with me, do reach out on Twitter. I'm at @Hvaughnjones. I know you've got it there. We always
love hearing from you, so do tweet me.
I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones. Thank you so much for watching. That was Connect the World.
END
