Return to Transcripts main page

Connect the World

Saudi King had Calls with Trump and Erdogan; Trump on Khashoggi, "These Could've Been Rogue Killers"; Pompeo Going to Saudi Arabia; CEOs Back Out of Flagship Saudi Investment Conference; Turks to be Allowed Access to Saudi Consulate; Prince Harry and Meghan Expecting First Child. Aired 11-12p ET

Aired October 15, 2018 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD with me Becky Anderson live from Istanbul.

It is almost 2 weeks to the day that a well-known Saudi journalist and a critic of the direction that his country is going in walked into his

consulate in this very city. Jamal Khashoggi has not been seen or heard from since. The fate of the former palace insider is now the cause of a

high-stakes carefully choreographed diplomatic dance. The latest steps, well, calls between the Saudi King and the Turkish and U.S. presidents.

Note, these didn't involve the Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman whose name has been so linked to this controversy.

The U.S. Secretary of State now heading to Riyadh. And a forensic team will reportedly finally be allowed into the Saudi consulate in the coming

hours. But not before what looks like the cleaners were sent in.

We have been and continue to cover the story from every angle with live reporters and analysis standing by everywhere the developments are

happening. Nic Robertson is in Istanbul. Sam Kiley is in Riyadh and John Defterios is in Abu Dhabi on the money trail for you.

We start with the U.S., a partner of and arms supplier to Saudi Arabia, a NATO ally of Turkey. Washington put right in the middle of this crisis.

Donald Trump just had this to say after his call with King Salman earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The King firmly denied any knowledge of it. He didn't really know. Maybe -- I don't want to get into

his mind, but it sounded to me like may be these could have been rogue killers. Who knows? We are going to try getting to the bottom of it very

soon. But his was a flat denial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: So, the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo then is on his way to Riyadh to speak to Saudi King Salman as we speak.

Let's get the latest from our team of reporters around the globe. Sam Kiley is in Riyadh as I said, in Saudi Arabia. CNN's diplomatic analyst,

John Kirby, also joining us in Washington. Sam, and I quote Donald Trump here. We've just heard from him. It sounded to me like may be these could

have been rogue killers. Who knows? He said, we are going to try to get to the bottom of this of it very soon, Trump said. But he said that King

Salman's was a flat denial that he or his son were in any way involved. When Mike Pompeo gets to Riyadh he will be briefed on what King Salman

knows. Correct?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and King Salman himself by royal decree sent out an investigative team to find out from his

own people what happened. Now, we were hearing out of Washington and out of Riyadh that there might be some kind of conclusive statement on the

findings of that investigation perhaps inside the next 24 hours. We are also hearing that that may now be delayed because of the visit of the U.S.

Secretary of State, which would make sense that the two major allies would want to come up with a joint position on whatever it is that happened and

what should follow whatever it is happened inside that consulate.

But I also think that this shows, Becky, and you alluded to it in your introduction there, no mention of the Crown Prince. And that I think is

very significant just because at least the King here has finally got a grip on what has been going on in terms of what's being said about what's

happening here. Which was very, very all over the place. Frankly, often very divergent messages coming out from here and the Embassy in Washington

-- Becky.

ANDERSON: John, what you make of this?

JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Well, I mean obviously I'm glad to see that the Trump administration is now taking it as seriously

as they are. I was worried in the early days they didn't seem to be reacting at all.

[11:05:00] But now they are sending Pompeo. I think that's a good move. I think they need to go in with this open-minded and be willing to let the

facts take them where they take them. And if the Saudis are complicit in this, if there was a murder, then obviously, we need to act very, very

string stringently in terms of international sanctions and pressure put on Saudi Arabia to make it clear that we don't accept this kind of behavior.

But I'm a little worried when I hear the President so staunchly sort of defending the King's denials. Almost like he's leapfrogging over the

investigative process all together.

ANDERSON: Stand by, John and Sam. I want to get to the consulate here. Because that is at the heart of all of this of course. The last place

Jamal Khashoggi was seen alive 13 days ago, that being the Saudi consulate over my shoulder 20 minutes away from here. Nic Robertson is there. And

finally, movement where you are. Are they in -- are these Turkish investigators in? We certainly know that a Saudi team in Istanbul is

installed here now and part of what we understand is the working group on this, correct?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There is a working group. We understand that earlier today at the police headquarters in

Istanbul here, the Saudi team met with the Turkish investigators. Now, we just saw a big huddle of men go into the consulate literally in the last 10

minute. A lot of action here. Everyone wanted to get a look at them. But as best we can tell it looked like a Saudi delegation going inside the

consulate. No indication yet that we've got, that we've seen of a Turkish forensics or experts team going into the consulate so far. So, the Turkish

investigators don't appear to be in there yet. The men we saw going in just now to the best of our knowledge were Saudi's.

But what we have seen here in the minutes after it was announced earlier today that the Turkish investigators would be allowed to going to the

consulate, a cleaning crew arrived at the front door of the consulate. They had mops. They had buckets. They had rags inside the buckets. The

door was opened for them and they went in. So, the cleaning crew going in just minutes after it was announced that investigators would get there.

Now, investigators we're still waiting for to get in here. And I think it's quite worth noting that last week Saudi official said that Turkish

investigators would be able to get inside the consulate and that didn't happen, Becky. So, at the moment whatever that conversation was at the

police headquarters in Istanbul today, it didn't seem to be one that said come on over right now.

So far, what we've seen happen is a large delegation of Saudis going in the last few minutes, and a cleaning crew before them -- Becky.

ANDERSON: And still, the evidence that was being touted, this video, and audio evidence, it is still not released. Of course, briefings to local

media here, over the past week, but no evidence yet of this audio and video, that certainly sources briefing local media here suggested would

stand up the notion that something happened to Jamal Khashoggi in that consulate. Right.

John, let me get back to you. Because I want to discuss Washington's strategy here. Much criticism late last week that Donald Trump was late to

all of this. That he wasn't out front on his comments on this. In part he said, look, Jamal isn't a U.S. citizen. That seemed to be one of the

reasons that he posited for not giving involved. But I wanted to look at strategy here. Because, you know, they're a very important player in this

sort of triangulation, that being Washington, Riyadh and indeed, Ankara, the heart of the story.

According to a U.S. Department of Defense official, John, in 2017, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia signed a memorandum of intent -- as it's known -- for

Saudi to purchase $110 billion worth of arms over ten year. The arms sales including helicopters, tanks, ships, weapons and training. Even if these

lucrative arm sales aren't touched, Donald Trump has given certainly the impression loudly that there are other ways that the U.S. would or could

respond should they have to. How important a weapon was at to wield against the Saudi's do you think?

KIRBY: You mean the other options or the arms sales?

ANDERSON: I'm talking about the sanctions. He talked about other pressure.

KIRBY: Exactly. He has a realm of tools at his disposal. We can do sanctions whether they are unilateral U.S. sanctions or work through the

U.N., of course the Magnitsky Act is out there. Members of Congress want to use that. He has military leverage. Not just the arm sales but he can

affect the way we cooperate with the Saudi military who definitely need our support particularly for their operations in Yemen.

[11:10:00] He also has diplomatic leverage. We can change the character of the diplomatic relationship between us and Saudi. You can send some

diplomats home. You can close some facilities. He has a lot of leverage. Not to mention, Becky, we are not as dependent on Saudi oil as we used to

be. And this was something that started under Obama and he has certainly accelerated that energy independence. So, he doesn't have to be -- behold

himself to Saudi Arabia for all that kind of influence. So, he has a lot of tools.

What I don't understand is why he would so convincing take off a very big tool, which is the arm sales. Now, that said, $110 billion is a letter of

intent. It's a promissory note. It's a shopping list. It doesn't mean that we will get $110 billion in contracts. Obama signed a similar letter

of intent to the tune of about $115 billion and Saudis only really contracted for about half that amount over the course of the Obama

presidency. So, it's not quite the tool that he's claiming that it is, but it doesn't make sense to me why he would not put that right on the table as

many members of Congress want him to do.

ANDERSON: John, thank you for that. Sam's in Riyadh, Nic's of course at the consulate here. I want to get to CNN's chief international

correspondent, Clarissa Ward, who is in the capital of Turkey in Ankara. Clarissa, so a coordinated effort now by Turkey, Saudi and Washington to

effort or effect a conclusion to all of this. What that conclusion will look like, though, is still unclear. Your thoughts.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it is still unclear, but I think that we're starting to get glimpses. We're starting

to get hints. Most noticeably from President Trump who seemingly randomly threw out this possibility that it was rogue killers who might be respond

for Khashoggi's death. Well first of all, the fact that he was calling them killers assumes that Khashoggi is indeed dead which is something that

has not yet technically been actually proven.

But this might give us a hunt as to what official Saudi narrative could potentially be. We know Saudi has been working on its own internal

investigation. One source telling me that potentially they could try to frame this perhaps as a rogue operation, but more likely as a botched

operation. As an operation that was not carried out with the correct level of transparency and with the correct level of clearance.

One thing that does seem clear, Becky, based on the events of today, based on the fact that were not seeing any more leaks really coming out from the

Turkish side that the Saudi's appear to be cooperating. That President Trump is now sending over Secretary of State Pompeo all in sort of an

apparent shift toward a more coordinated narrative. All of this I think indicating that there is the political will on many sides to try to bring

this whole incident to a close.

Now, whether Turkey and Saudi and the U.S. in their various roles are able to do it is something of an over question. Because certainly this has

raised enormous questions -- particularly as you just heard with John Kirby there -- about the nature of the U.S./Saudi relationship -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Clarissa, John, Sam, Nic, thank you for that. That's the very latest on the mystery disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi. And we stick with

this story.

Still to come, the fallout from his disappearance putting the business world's bet on the Saudi Crown Prince at risk. That is just ahead.

[11:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me Becky Anderson live from Istanbul. This is special coverage of the fallout from

the disappearance and now possible murder or death at least of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Now, that fallout now extending to Wall Street with the list of global business leaders set to attend what is a major investment summit in the

Saudi desert shrinking by the day. Jamie Dimon, the CEO JP Morgan Chase, as well as Larry Fink and Stephen Schwartzman, the CEOs of BlackRock and

Blackstone group will reportedly skip the conference. Well those huge funds extremely important to both Mr. Trump and the Saudi Crown Prince.

John Defterios joins me now to dig into the numbers. And John, the Blackstone and BlackRock Funds worth billions, very important to the Crown

Prince's Vision 2030. Also entrenched in Saudi/U.S. relations. An extremely tricky business calculation on their parts.

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNNMONEY EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: No doubt about that, Becky. These are some of the biggest names on Wall Street. In fact, they

don't get bigger if you are talking about BlackRock it's $6 trillion under management, Blackstone at $450 billion under management and JP Morgan Chase

with Jamie Dimon had a number of mandates here on the privatization process in Saudi Arabia. Even looking at Saudi Aramco down the road potentially

going public. Although, that's been delayed.

Now 24 hours ago, all three were engaged because they have heavy stakes in the future of Saudi Arabia and this Crown Prince. That has changed clearly

overnight and they join a wider party now. Bill Ford, the chairman of Ford Motor, the CEO of Uber and the CEO of Viacom, plus the media companies.

So, it's a narrative that's changed radically here because the bar was set so high in 2017 with the inaugural event.

Now there's two different categories here. It is the outbound investment from Saudi Arabia going into the United States. We're talking about big

money here. Softbank and its Silicon Valley Vision Fund primarily invested in Silicon Valley moving up to $100 billion for Blackstone. We are looking

at $40 million, 20 billion directly from Saudi Arabia and another 20 billion to match here. BlackRock did not want to release the figures.

Then there's the inbound money. And I think it's interesting that the infrastructure companies, the GEs or the Siemens of the world, are keeping

a very low profile. They've had $450 billion overall in contracts since 2010. So, when oil prices went up above $100 a barrel under the previous

king and now under King Salman, the spending has been veracious. And that's why American companies and European companies and Asian companies

would like to stay engaged. Now it's the nuance. What happens with the evidence and how they proceed. Try to keep their flags in Saudi Arabia,

not offending the ruling family, but at this stage in the investment summit, ducking out.

ANDERSON: The Saudi stock market which of course is open on a Sunday, it is a working day in that part of the world, taking a real knock for the

entire trading session. It recovered a little bit. I want you to talk about what is happening today. Because I know that King Salman's telephone

call to the President here.

[11:20:01] The involvement of the leadership, the leader of Saudi Arabia, it seems providing some stability for investors who clearly yesterday,

Sunday, had serious concerns about where this was going and what would happen next.

DEFTERIOS: Great point to bring it up here, Becky. I think it moves to the VVIP level. This is the leader level here, King Salman talking with

President Erdogan -- as you suggested first -- and then President Trump speaking to King Salman as well. So, because of its elevation and this

ability or a desire at least to try to find a solution, it did calm down the initial fears.

When you and I were talking at the same time last night, you can recall the noise in the oil market. There was a very bell bellicose statement put out

of Riyadh suggesting that any action from the United States or European partners against Saudi Arabia would prompt a reaction. Almost a very

aggressive reaction. We're having flashbacks to the 1973 Arab embargo. Would Saudi Arabia really take oil off the market. I've been speaking to

sources today in Saudi Arabia, they're being shy about it. But they said it's almost implausible. They don't want to see oil prices go to above

$100 a barrel in the first half of 2019 and then see them collapse because of demand when prices go to high.

There is also a geopolitical question here, Becky, and a very important one. And that is the pledge from the Crown Prince to President Trump to

replace the oil lost from Iran and the sanctions applied by the United States. He said just over ten days ago, I had 1.3 million barrels a day as

spare capacity, I'll use it on behalf of the President leading up to the midterm elections. If he broke that promise, I think Donald Trump would be

a pretty angry man. As you can see, the dialogue now has moved to King Salman and not the Crown Prince. Oil prices are stable just below $81 a

barrel. No violent reaction today.

ANDERSON: Yes, it's fascinating isn't it? Because the last that oil was really wielded as a sort of threat, as you rightly point out, more than 40

years ago -- nearly 50 years ago. The young Crown Prince wasn't born back then. He is today the mastermind with an awful lot of multimillion-dollar

help from consultants -- it has to be said -- around the world, but the mastermind behind this Vision 2030. This way that he wanted to drive his

country for what are 60 percent of the population under the age of 30 into this very modern competitive era, leaving to a certain extent, the sort of

history -- not the history, but the weaknesses in that economy behind. I wonder now where we think that that Vision 2030 stands.

Look, whether or not these businessmen pitch up to this meeting next week, that about optics. Isn't it? More than anything else. Behind the scenes,

just how important are those relationships to the future well-being of this vision? Because let's face it, this isn't just about the Crown Prince.

This is about an entire nation and its livelihood post-its oil dependency era.

DEFTERIOS: Yes, in fact, when I speak to different sources in the region and one suggested to me you have to look at it as an economy that was

driven by input before, the input being the major infrastructure projects, oil money being splashed around and employing everybody in Saudi Arabia.

This was the great hope from this young Crown Prince, Mohammad bin Salman, that he was going to push for diversification. So, it is a good blueprint.

I think the down side if I was going to criticize what's transpired over the last 2 1/2 years, as he perhaps tried to tackle too much at the same

time. Both internally with the diversification and also announcing very big mega projects that perhaps may not be seen through. But at the same

time, being aggressive in Yemen, aggressive against Iran, arresting 380 Saudi businessmen and taking out $100 billion. Even that very difficult

stance against Canada that we saw this summer. He's trying to tackle almost too much. So, I would think that the King going forward here --

depending on how this all plays out in Istanbul -- wants to streamline operations here, get that vision 2030 back on track and perhaps not have

the Crown Prince shooting as wide here with his portfolio. I think that would comfort the business community particularly Western leaders who have

a lot at stake back in Riyadh.

ANDERSON: And it has to be said, I mean, this is one of the conversations that's had around the Gulf region. You and I have talked about this a lot,

the scale and scope of that ambition and the challenges that inevitably the Crown Prince would face in order to get it up and as effective as quickly

as he thought or hoped he could. John, thanks for that.

[11:25:00] Let's get you up to speed, viewers, on the other stories that are on our radar right now.

And the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, says she believes a negotiated Brexit deal is best for both the U.K. and the European Union. This after

weekend negotiations over the withdrawal ended without a deal just days before a critical summit. Now officials say they did make progress, but a

number of issues remain including the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. German Chancellor, Angela Merkel's tenure grand coalition

government is a little are more fragile today after the Bavarian state Parliament election. The ruling Christian Social Union lost its majority

while the pro-immigration Greens and the far-right Alternative for Deutschland party both picked up seats. That's a critical election in

Germany.

At least 13 people are dead after flash flooding hit the Aude region of southern France. Three months' worth of rain fell in just six hours

overnight. Roads cut off and cars overturned as the waters swept through the streets. Residents have been told to remain indoors.

Two border crossings in southern Syria opened on Monday, one leading to Jordan and another to the Israeli occupied Golan Heights. The crossings

were closed for years because of the Syrian civil war. CNN's Ian Lee reports from the Golan Heights.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This really is a symbolic day for Syria because it marks the country's reengagement with its neighbors.

Not only do you have a border crossing between Jordan and Syria reopening, but the Quneitra crossing here on the Golan Heights is being reopened. And

just through this fence, through the razor wire, barbed wire across the field, you can see a Syrian flag fluttering in the wind.

And just this last summer, that flag wasn't there. What was there was heavy fighting between rebel forces and the forces of the Syrian regime.

Really from where we are standing, hundreds of meters away, there were artillery strikes we saw hitting the ground, hitting the rebels. But now

the Syrian regime is in full control.

This crossing though isn't like other crossings, that's because Syria and Israel do not have formal diplomatic relations. The U.N. runs this border

crossing. They monitor this frontier. And what Israel wants is for not only a return to the status quo, but calm that came after the 1974

agreement. But they also want the U.N. to make sure different groups that supported the Syrian regime, like Hezbollah and Iranian forces also are

kept away from this frontier. So, the status quo, that calm that has been in the Golan Heights for decades returns. Ian lee, CNN on the Golan

Heights.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: We're live from Istanbul in Turkey. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, where does the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi leave Turkey?

We'll discuss the local point of view up next.

[11:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: We are live from Istanbul this hour. This continues to be our special coverage of the fallout from the disappearance of the Saudi

journalists, Jamal Khashoggi. You are watching CNN. And I'm Becky Anderson with CONNECT THE WORLD for you. Here is everything that you need

to know this hour to be up to speed on this story before we take a really deep dive on it and find out where we think things are at.

The focus is on the Saudi consulate here in Istanbul this hour, which Khashoggi visited two weeks ago. You can see him do so in this video.

There is though no evidence that he ever left. A Turkish diplomatic source told CNN that a forensics team will now be allowed to enter in the coming

hours. But it seems that they were beaten to it by the cleaners.

Well the U.S. President Donald Trump says he spoke with the Saudi King Salman who has denied any knowledge of Jamal's fate. Mr. Trump is sending

his Secretary of State to Saudi Arabia. Well the whole situation leaves Turkey in what has been a rather peculiar position. It comes hot on the

heels of a big diplomatic spat between the U.S. and Turkey over Andrew Brunson. That American pastor jailed in Turkey released just last week.

And President Trump said a couple of hours ago his feelings towards Turkey are warming.

Now, the country is faced with a possible murder of a prominent critic of the Saudi government in a consulate located in Istanbul straining already

complicated relations between Ankara and Riyadh. Well thankfully we are joined by somebody who can really help us better understand the context.

Matthew Bryza is a former U.S. ambassador, now a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council think tank. Importantly and crucially, you've had the

Turkish file for both the White House and the State Department for a long time and you certainly did. So, you really understand not just where

Turkey is at, but the kind of wider regional implications here. So, we are seeing the evidence of a coordinated effort to put a lid on this whole

thing. It seems we are close to finding out what happened at the consulate or at least to being told what happened. Those two could be quite

different of course.

MATTHEW BRYSZ, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: They could be quite different. And the clear evidence of a clearing crew on its way in before

the Turkish investigators showed up would suggest that maybe it's more like we'll be told what happened. Look, there's an interest in and it seems

like President Trump talking about a potential rogue operation speculating with no apparent evidence. He would like this to be blown over. It seems

like.

ANDERSON: Let me just stop you there for one second. I just what to get to Nic Robertson. Because as you and I are speaking there has been some

movement, some action at the consulate. Let's get to Nic Robertson. Nic, what do you know at this point?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Becky, there is definitely activity down here at the moment. Things are beginning to

change. The police -- local Turkish police have moved in, they are moving cordon back here so that journalists that sort of look at the front door.

This is because we expect their investigators are about to go in. So, it does seem that we are edging closer to that moment when the Turkish

investigators can finally be allowed to do their job, get inside the consulate, make their forensic examinations, back up if you will their

claims that they believe that Jamal Khashoggi was murdered in there.

[11:35:05] Why they are pushing the cordon back a bit at the moment, we don't know. But one expects in forensics examinations normally that

generally journalists are pushed back. We've been close to seeing what's going on in detail at the front door here. Watching that cleaning crew

come and go this morning for example. Watching the Saudi delegation go in there in the last half an hour or so.

But now it seems like we're getting very close to the moment when Turkish investigators -- we know the Foreign Minister said over the weekend that

the chief prosecutor had to be allowed to get his experts in there, forensic experts we understand that Turkish officials know where they want

to go into the consulate, they know what they are looking for. That moment does seem to be approaching. As I say, it is a little hectic down here

right now as police push the cordon back, move journalists, et cetera, around here a little -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Back to you as soon as you have any more. That is the action down at the consulate. At least finally there is some movement down there.

Ambassador, we've had evidence leaked -- or alleged evidence leaked to local media here of audio and video recordings or the allegations that

there exist audio and video recordings. So, what they'll be doing of course down at that consulate is trying to marry up this information what

it seems.

BRYSZ: Yes, whatever is left perhaps after the cleaning crew went through. But, yes, I mean, yes, I think the Turkish government has played this

pretty carefully and wisely so far. They haven't gone out and made any accusations, they just demanded to be able to get in there and investigate.

And they've leaked without any names attached to this information that they have it. That's kept the pressure on the Saudi side. It's also Turkey out

of doghouse with the United States. Because it looks like then the Turkish side is not playing any funny games. It's really trying to get to the

bottom of it.

ANDERSON: And none of this will come for nothing, is it. I mean, if President Erdogan can leverage anything out of this situation, one assumes

it will be better relations with everybody who he would like to provide him some financial support for what is an economy which is very, very

challenged here at present. It would do him a favor a to be getting on better with the Saudis. It would do him a favor to be getting on better

with Washington. Wouldn't it?

BRYSZ: Very much so. I mean, there's great question now in international markets about the stability of the Turkish economy and by the way, the

whole business investment environment. So, to position Turkey to be the one that pushed for the truth to come out, whatever version we get, and to

improve relations with both the United States and Saudi Arabia, that could be a huge gain and show kind of the opposite of what is happening now in

Saudi Arabia. Where investor confidence is fleeing. Here it could return to Turkey and hopefully then we'll see the lira stabilizing. I mean, it's

already gone stronger.

ANDERSON: So, Mike Pompeo -- let's get back just finally to what we know to be going on this hour. As you and I talked, we know that there is now

action down at the consulate, it sounds like the Turkish investigative team is inside. Meantime in the air on his way to Riyadh from Washington, the

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Assuming that he will be getting a briefing from King Salman. Just work behind the scenes for us. You've

been in this game for long enough. Donald Trump calls King Salman, has a conversation with him. Says he knows nothing. Trump says, you know, well,

this could have been a bunch of rogue killers. What's going on behind the scenes, what will Mike Pompeo want to get out of Riyadh before he possibly

comes here?

BRYSZ: What I hope it is, is that -- first of all, President Trump made that statement about a possible rogue action maybe without having thought

it through very much, thinking that he is creating some maneuver room for Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

ANDERSON: It certainly, a conversation that has been had behind or even in front of closed doors actually.

BRYSZ: Secretary of State Pompeo, I take his going there as a positive sign. I interpreted as a decision on to get to the bottom of it. You send

the top diplomat of the United States. You talk to interestingly both King Salman and President Erdogan, not the Crown Prince. And by the way, I

think one of the really dramatic developments today is the announcement of the internal investigation in Saudi Arabia. By the father of the son.

That's a dramatic development. I think you can assume, OK, maybe it won't be the most transparent, or you know, thorough going investigation or maybe

it will be.

ANDERSON: I know that we've got some video of Mike Pompeo as he gets set to board this flight out here. How quickly -- in your experience -- how

quickly now do you think a lid could be put on all of this?

BRYSZ: I think pretty quickly. Now the Secretary of State's prestige is directly on the line. He's going all the way to meet with these two

leaders face-to-face. So, I sense the dam is sort of breaking right now.

[11:40:00] And I think the implications for the Crown Prince are potentially dramatic and negative. I mean we talked about all these issues

just now, but also the pullout of the investors. It's not just that they are pulling out of a conference, they're showing that they don't believe in

the stability of the rule of law and the investment in the area.

ANDERSON: Certainly, we'll see whether it is just a sort of -- an optics moment for some of these businessmen and what the deal is. Because we know

that there is a heavy investment on the bilateral side both in Saudi Arabia and indeed Saudi money in funds that are for all intents and purposes

helping make America great again. We leave you for the time being. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. The ambassador who has a deep

understanding of what is going on here.

And what is going on here of course doesn't stay here. We often say that in what is this region. The ramifications of the support that we've seen

from Saudi Arabia's allies important just as we see this deafening silence from its foes, Doha, Qatar for example. Qatar very much hooked up and

invested to help this place out here, Turkey. The stories continue to show just how polarized this region is. Live from Istanbul, you are watching

CONNECT THE WORLD. Is diplomatic immunity being abused in the Khashoggi case? My next guest argues that it is and that there is a great deal at

stake. That after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: You're watching CNN, CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson live from Istanbul with our special coverage of the fallout from the

disappearance of the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Back to the top story then. Growing political outrage over his disappearance, President Trump saying that he spoke with the Saudi King and

that he has strongly denied any knowledge of Khashoggi's disappearance. This as we have learned that a Turkish investigative team will not be

allowed -- is in fact searching the consulate. Though what is left of any potential crime scene at this point is unclear.

So, what is the role of international diplomacy and law in a case like this? My next guest argues diplomatic immunity is being abused. In a

piece in the "Times" of London, Ben Keith says, and I quote, international law is under attack from all sides. Keith specializes in extradition, and

immigration and human rights law and joins me live now from London. Why, sir? Why say?

BEN KEITH, BARRISTER SPECIALIZING IN EXTRADITION, HUMAN RIGHTS AND PUBLIC LAW: Good afternoon, Becky. Why so, because diplomatic immunity and the

unviability of Embassy premises is something that underpins the whole of both international law and diplomacy.

[11:45:00] And if states begin to use those premises to commit serious crimes, murder or kidnap, then not only are individuals not safe, but

neither are diplomats. And in those circumstances, it becomes very difficult for any country diplomat or individual do business with a

particular state on foreign soil.

ANDERSON: Are you arguing that the investigative team shouldn't then be allowed in?

KEITH: No, the investigative team should obviously be allowed into look at what happened in the Saudi embassy, but the terrifying thing about this

case is that if the reports are true and that if Saudi individuals came and used the Saudi embassy, so hid behind the cloak of diplomatic immunity and

hid behind the protection provided by the Saudi embassy to commit either kidnapping or murder of Jamal Khashoggi on, that is a deliberate

manipulation of the powers and privileges granted to them in this case by the Turkish government. But also, should worry anybody who might oppose

the Saudi regime into entering any Saudi government premise the world over.

ANDERSON: You say in your article, and I quote, the comity of nations is upheld by the Vienna Convention and international practice. You also note

that that is open to abuse. And so, just so that our audience has a clear on what the Vienna Convention says. Let me just get through article 31

which grants diplomatic immunity, article 37 which extends immunity to families of diplomatic agents and their staff. And article 9 allows the

receiving state to refuse to recognize a person as a member of the mission in certain cases and declare them persona non grata.

So, as we've seen this last 14 days develop, because it was nearly 14 days ago, Tuesday October the 2nd, that Jamal went into that embassy, that

consulate, and didn't come out. You're saying that you have concerns about how these articles are being abused and what ramifications therefore of

this case may be?

KEITH: The crime that we think has been committed or has been reported to be committed has been committed on diplomatic premises. Which means that

the Turkish government can't investigate without permission of the Saudis. Which is why it is only today that the Turkish investigators are allowed

into the Saudi embassy. As you reported today that cleaners have been in first. And so normally the Saudi government would tell the Turkish

government who was coming into Turkey and Turkey would agree to that part. In these circumstances we doubt that the Saudi men who came to that embassy

were in fact notified to Turkey.

But because Turkey didn't know what was happening and because it took place on embassy premises, Turkey has no ability to enforce the rule of law to

prevent murder or to protect people in those circumstances. And then when a crime of such a horrific nature is committed on the embassy premises, and

the individuals are then allowed to flee, it is only because Mr. Khashoggi was so high profile and knew that a there were potential problems that the

press and the media and international community were alerted immediately afterwards.

ANDERSON: And all of this of course will inform many investigation ahead of course given that there is some suggestion now that this may have been a

Saudi death squad who have fled the country. Ben, thank you. Thank you for joining me for what is an important discussion.

Coming up, baby makes three for Britain's Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Prince Harry and Meghan are expecting a royal bundle of joy . We'll live

in London with more on the big announcement. Up next.

[11:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: You're watching CNN and this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me Becky Anderson out of Istanbul. And as we continue to watch the developing story

here. We know that Michael Pompeo is about to leave for Riyadh to meet King Salman. That is after of course the conversation that Donald Trump

says that he had with the Saudi leader.

And just in the last couple of minutes from the agency in Saudi, the readout of that conversation is as follows -- King Salman received today a

telephone call from the U.S. President Donald Trump, during the phone call both discussed developments in the region and reviewed the bilateral

relations between the two countries. This is Pompeo, as you see, is getting into the plane on his way now to Riyadh. U.S. President Donald

Trump this readout says praised the joints Saudi/Turkish cooperation in the investigation into the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi and the keenness of

the Kingdom's leadership to clarify all relevant facts. The story continues to develop.

Well, let's just move away from what has been dominating the news headlines now for pretty much the last two weeks, the disappearance of the

"Washington Post" correspondent.

We are going to move away because there is some news, some exciting news for Britain's royal family, for royal watchers. Prince Harry and his new

bride expecting a baby. Kensington Palace announced the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will welcome their first child together in the spring. The pair

had just touched down in Australia for their first tour as a married couple when the news broke. The new royal baby will be seventh in line to the

British throne. CNN's Max Foster is outside Buckingham Palace with more on the royal announcement -- Max.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Much excitement actually here. And if you look at social media all around the world as well really about this.

Meghan and Harry arrived in Australia and those images you were showing showed Meghan holding a big file in front of her. Sports all sorts of

speculation that she was indeed pregnant and then the announcement came a little later on. As we understand it, they announced their pregnancy on

Friday at the wedding of Princess Eugenie to the family. But they often get together a group. So, that was an opportunity for them before they

flew away to let the Queen and Prince Charles and Prince William all know. And there are delighted as is Meghan's mother, Dora Ragland. She said this

is really nice news and that she's very much looking forward to meeting her first grandchild. So, the baby due in the spring. We don't know the sex.

Won't find out probably until the baby is born. Might even be twins, Becky, who knows. There're all sorts of speculation out there.

ANDERSON: Of course, there is. Why wouldn't there be. Max, thank you.

And just finally, before we close out this hour, U.S. President Donald Trump has just arrived in Florida. He's visiting or touring the state

after it was hit by hurricane Michael of course. Dozens of people still unaccounted for in the state. Mr. Trump accompanied by the first lady,

Melania. After Florida, the Trumps will move on to Georgia which was also hit by the storm.

I'm Becky Anderson that was CONNECT THE WORLD for you.

[11:55:00] We've been live Istanbul for these last couple of days covering the story that has riveted and appalled many around the world and one that

has huge ramifications for the Middle East in the world. We've been teasing out the angles for you and will continue to do so from my team here

in Istanbul, in London, in Atlanta and in Abu Dhabi for the time being. Thank you for watching.

END