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U.K. Prime Minister Defends Brexit Plan Amid Political Chaos; Saudis Seek Death Penalty for 5 Suspects in Khashoggi Murder; Theresa May's Future in Doubt Amid Resignations; Financial Markets React to Brexit Turmoil; Two Ministers Call for Early Elections in Israel. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired November 15, 2018 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00] HANNAH VAUGHN JONES, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD, with me Hannah Vaughan Jones. I'm live in London.
MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Also, outside the U.K., Houses of Parliament, on an incredible day in British politics, and we continue to
bring you the latest here at Abington Green this hour. My colleague Hala will be here a bit later on in the show for you.
But in the early hours of this morning, we began reporting this story with the words Theresa May faces a long and difficult day ahead. But never, we
nor her, expected the day to play out quite like this. The British Prime Minister fighting for her political survival. After divisions over her
draft the Brexit deal made itself brutally clear in Parliament, Mrs. May has defended her plan.
But try telling that to leading Brexiteer, Jacob Rees-Mogg, who submitted a letter of no confidence in the Prime Minister. That followed a series of
shock resignations today, the biggest being the man who might have expected to be at her side in all of this, that's the Brexit Secretary, Dominic
Raab.
We're covering all sides of the story for you. Will get the reaction from Brussels in a moment. First our Nic Robertson at Downing Street and Bianca
who is here with me outside Parliament. You were here late into the night talking about the cabinet meeting, were you expecting that raft of
resignations. There were four junior ministers and then two senior ones.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Two senior ones, exactly. Well, it didn't come as a surprise given that the two cabinet ministers that spoke
to journalists or smiled as they left that marathon cabinet session of five hours and were both Remainers. So, both of them said yes, very, very good
meeting and all of the Brexiteers that left looked incredibly dour and sullen. And then we were expecting that resignations might follow.
Bearing in mind that when the Prime Minister first proposed this plan at Chequers, there were no resignations in the immediate aftermath. And she
said we're united on this we're bringing forward this agreement. And then what happened within the week, we had the Brexit Secretary, David Davis
and the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, both resigning.
So, I think everybody was aware that they need to be on resignation watch and just because the Prime Minister has said we've agreed didn't mean that
there wouldn't be fallout. And it was notable, too, that the language the Prime Minister chose, she said we have come to a collective agreement, not
a unanimous agreement. And it definitely implied that there were tense moments in that cabinet meeting, and I heard afterwards as well that there
were very argumentative sections particularly from Esther McVey who resigned this morning and Dominic Raab.
FOSTER: But there are others. Aren't there? There are other Brexiteers at that level who were also concerned in the meeting. Are we expecting
them to go too then?
NOBILO: The Brexiteers within the cabinet are split, if you like, into sub groups. So, you have the Brexiteers who have always been very passionate
about their cause. And we were expecting those to resign, like Esther McVey and Penny Mordaunt, who has yet to resign. Then you have more
pragmatic Brexiteers, who are of the opinion that this isn't the Brexit that they wanted. But better to actually leave the European Union in some
way on the 29th of March 2019 and then to try and harden that relationship at the later date. Those like Michael Gove. Then have the born again
Brexiteers if you would like with an eye on leadership, that voted remain in the initial referendum, like Jeremy Hunt or Sajid Javid. But now, are
championing the cause of Brexit. So, it was those extreme Brexiteers that she needed to keep an eye on and that's what we've seen today.
FOSTER: And then she headed to Parliament and it became pretty clear that getting this deal -- if it was hard to get it through the cabinet, then
it's going to be virtually impossible to get it through Parliament.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And that was the message she kept hearing in Parliament. She kept being told by MP, after
MP, that see what is happening around you. See that you're not going to be able to get this vote through. Indeed, it went as far as some MPs to call
for her to stand down right then and there. So, this was a very, very tough test of Theresa May's character, and showed her in her very clear
vision that she was going to deliver, that she came in with a plan, and even though while she was in there, another minister announced resignation.
This was Theresa May battling, battling, battling. She took an absolute mauling. I can't remember a time when we last saw a Prime Minister really
be given such a tough time. She answered the same question multiple, multiple times. She answered the question, can there be another
referendum, no, she said. And indeed, in the end she said I refer my honorable, the honorable gentleman of the honorable lady as she kept saying
to my last answer. She was asked if there could be an extension to the leaving date of Brexit, the 29th of March next year. And she just
persisted, with her message. And in fact, she was very clear and what was on offer.
[10:05:00] And in many ways, the way she articulated this, was clear that this was a message to both ends of the spectrum. The hard Brexiteers, and
those who would perhaps not support the government, but not also at the same time, not want there to be a second referendum. This is how she put
it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: So, Mr. Speaker, the choice is clear. We can choose to leave with no deal, we can risk no Brexit at all, or we
can choose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is the problem.
MAY: Or we can choose to unite and support the best deal that can be negotiated. This deal, a deal which ends free movement, takes back control
of our borders, laws, and money, delivers a free trade area for goods, with zero tariffs, leaves the common agricultural policy and the common
fisheries policy, delivers an independent foreign and defense policy, while retaining the continued security cooperation to keep our people safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Well, I lost track there, the number of times she actually articulated those very points she has said, again, and again, and again.
But although the Prime Minister says it is clear what the choices are, the situation now is anything but clear. It really isn't clear what the next
steps are for her. We can understand that if she continues to push down this line, that she has said she will continue to push down, then the
immediate step must be to replace her Brexit secretary. However, it is not clear that she is going to be able to do that. Because of the potential
challenges for her leadership. We really does feel, Max, as if we're in unchartered territory here.
FOSTER: OK, Nic, thank you. And some breaking news, another resignation - - Bianca.
NOBILO: Another resignation just in this space from when you started the show, when Nic finished talking. We've had a resignation of Raymond
Chishti who is the vice chairman of the Conservative Party. So, they have an important role of keeping the morale of the party up and in good spirits
and it is a supportive role to the Prime Minister. So, now by my count that makes four minister, two ministerial aide, and now this vice chairman.
FOSTER: So, eight resignations in total, I think, I'm reading. Erin, in Brussels, they're having to make sense of all of this as well. But I they
are really looking ahead to this deal, this deal, this meeting, on the 25th of November, right, where the deal is going to be ratified but is there a
sense it might not get that far?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think at this point, Max, that's an open question, not a smile to be seen today here in Brussels, at any of the
press points, talking about Brexit. Also, no smiles to be seen in Strasburg at the European Parliament either. We heard from Donald Tusk,
the President of the European Council, basically say that the EU is preparing for all eventualities. Noting that Brexit at this point is the
biggest story in the world, while declining to comment on the specifics of the politics playing out there in London. Take a listen to what he had to
say at the EU South Africa summit in Brussels, earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TUSK, PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL: It is not for me to comment on the latest developments in London. All I can say is that the EU
is prepared for a final deal with the United Kingdom in November. We are also prepared for a no deal scenario. But of course, we are best prepared
for a no Brexit scenario.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLAUGHLIN: Now, for now, it is still full steam ahead for that November 25th summit in which the EU ministers are expected to sign off at the
political level on the draft text that Theresa May's cabinet signed off on last night. Worth noting, that this still needs to be negotiated from the
standpoint of the future declaration. There are two things on the table here, the withdrawal agreement, which ostensibly was completed and signed
off by Theresa May's cabinet last night. And then there is the declaration on the future relationship, a political declaration, between the EU, and
the U.K. that still supposedly is being negotiated at this point. Just this morning, saying that he had hoped that that process would be complete
by Tuesday paving the way for the Sunday summit. That process now of course sort of in question -- Max.
FOSTER: Erin, thank you. Going to check on the markets now. The pound has been falling against the dollar today, in the wake of this deal. But
particularly, the Dominic Raab resignation, as you can see, it is down.
[10:10:00] It stabilized somewhat against the dollar, but there were some falls earlier on. Major political and economic turmoil then over this
deal. But what's in the deal anyway? The draft withdrawal agreement is quite long, 500 pages long and very complex. We got through it and picked
out some of the key points that we think that are there for you. The U.K. will stay in the EU single market until the end of 2020. Putting no hard
border between North Ireland and Ireland, at least in the short term. U.K. and EU nationals will not need visas when crossing borders in the block and
the U.K. will honor all existing joint commitments to EU programs until the end of 2020. That divorce bill has been estimated at around 50 billion
pounds. I want to bring in Owen Smith (INAUDIBLE) for Northern Ireland. What was it like in Parliament today?
OWEN SMITH, BRITISH LABOUR MP: Strangely muted. It almost felt as there was a valedictory address being made by the Prime Minister. As you can see
the back benches on her side gearing up to attack, gearing up to threaten to do her in, as it were. And on our side, I think there is no great joy
that this government is listing under the weight of an impossible Brexit dream that cannot be delivered and most importantly we're concerned that it
cannot drag the country down with it.
FOSTER: We're now in a situation, where she needs Labour members of Parliament to support her deal, to get it through. Can she get that?
SMITH: No.
FOSTER: To what extent can she get any support from Labour?
SMITH: No, I think this deal, the 585 pages you were just citing, it was dead before it was read by most people. The truth is that there is no
prospect of the Labour Party supporting it because it is a bad deal that will be bad for our constituents and bad for our country. But nor is there
support for it in her own party and though she's succeeded in doing the impossible in uniting the right wing and the left wing of the Conservative
Party in opposition to her plan. And she's also, of course, got the opposition of the Democratic Unionist Party, from North Ireland, and she
gave them a billion pounds to try to secure their support not so long ago.
FOSTER: Yes, she granted it to North Ireland, lots of projects in North Irelands.
SMITH: Projects is what? I'm sorry, for many of us, it felt pretty much as though she was writing a check for their support. There we go.
FOSTER: In terms of what technically happens now, then, so you say the deal won't get through Parliament, we've got this meeting, this European
meeting on the 25th of November, for our viewers don't understand what this mean, technically what happens from now then?
SMITH: I think it is all incredibly unclear. I mean there are some people who are suggesting that she brought this deal to Parliament without a vote
in order to demonstrate to Brussels that she couldn't get it through to strengthen her hand in order to try and get further concessions from the
EU. I think that isn't right. But if it were right, it is an extraordinary miscalculation on her part, because it has resulted in there
clearly being a leadership challenge.
FOSTER: That is the other dynamic we have now, Jacob Rees-Mogg who is a very influential member of the Conservative Party on the back benches.
Right? He's a Brexiteer, he's sent in his letter. We'll have to see what comes of that. But if there is a leadership challenge, doesn't that just
cause more problems for your constituents, because this is going to delay Brexit even more? And therefore, they are going to have more uncertainty?
And therefore, more distrust really of the Parliamentary system. This is not sorting things out for them.
SMITH: Yes, I fear that's true. But the reality is, let's not forget that the only reason we are in this mess, the only reason we have Brexit is
because of this is the outplay of 30 years of civil war in the Tory Party about Europe. They have been at each other's throats about Europe since
1975. And they are still at each other's throats.
FOSTER: With the splits as well, to be fair.
SMITH: With some of the same extension and the reason we have the referendum was so, as to allow David Cameron to get the right wingers like
Jacob Rees-Mogg off his back then. The reason Mrs. May has had to pursue what she doesn't believe in, because she knows that staying in the European
Union is better for Britain than exiting. The reason she's had the tact toward those people because she is hanging over the sort of Damocles that
Jacob Rees-Mogg is now wielding. But the country cannot frankly be subject to the same threats. The country has to be saved from this sort of
cataclysmic no deal Brexit. And Parliament will do that. Parliament will not allow Mrs. May to crash Britain out of the EU. And it certainly won't
allow Jacob Rees-Mogg to do it.
FOSTER: It's all very depressing though. Isn't it? No one seems to know what is going to happen. Whoever I speak to, no one seems to know.
SMITH: It is a period of volatility in British politics that we have not seen in many, many generations.
FOSTER: Thank you very much, indeed. Owen Smith, the Labour MP, former Shadow Secretary of State, as well, for North Ireland.
[10:15:00] Let's get now more from Hannah, because there's lots else going on in the world and we will bring any more resignations as they come in
during the show.
JONES: Max, thanks very much, indeed. Obviously, a very fast-moving sequence of events in Westminster. But we do have some other stories. And
in particular, more information on another big story breaking just in the last few hours here at CNN.
Saudi prosecutors are seeking the death penalty for five suspects charged with the killing -- charged with killing the journalist Jamal Khashoggi as
they confirmed some fresh disturbing details of his murder. Stay tuned for the details on that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones live in London. You have been watching our
special Brexit coverage as my colleague Max Foster who's live in the thick of it in Westminster. We will be getting back to that coverage in around
ten minutes or so or of course as soon as we get any news of further resignations and the like from Parliament.
But now, an update on another major story that CNN has been following and has been following for some six weeks now. Saudi prosecutors are revealing
grisly details of the murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi as they vow to seek the death penalty against five of the 11 suspects. They say the
Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, that's Mohammad bin Salman, had no role in the murder.
Now, Turkey calls the prosecutors' statements, and I quote, unsatisfactory, suggesting Saudi Arabia is still withholding key information. We will be
crossing over to our Sam Kiley who is following all of the Saudi developments from Abu Dhabi tonight. But first, Jomana Karadsheh is
outside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul where, of course, Jamal Khashoggi was killed. Jomana, we're hearing disturbing new information from the
Saudi prosecutors about the nature, the way in which Jamal Khashoggi died, the way he was killed. How are the Turkish authorities responding to that,
because they have been putting quite a lot of pressure on the Saudis for some time, haven't they?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Hannah, the feeling amongst Turkish officials is that you're seeing this flip-flopping, as they
put it, from Saudi Arabia, saying that initially, it all started with denials, more than 40 days ago, as you recall, and then, you know, a
narrative that has changed so many times since. Now, in reaction to this latest statement that we're hearing from the prosecution in Saudi Arabia.
[10:20:00] We've heard from the foreign minister, in Turkey, reacting to that, saying that it was still unsatisfactory. Saying it was a good
positive first step that some people are being charged when it comes to this case, but it is still not enough for Turkey. Basically, saying that
the statements they've heard do not make sense really, and do answer some of the key questions that remain outstanding, that Turkey has put forward,
they say, to the Saudis, several times. And they have not (INAUDIBLE).
JONES: We just lost the connection there to Jomana Karadsheh in Istanbul. But I'm hoping we have Sam Kiley on the line for us now, from Abu Dhabi
who's been reporting on the Saudi side of this whole sorted affair the last six weeks or. Sam, we were detailing earlier these new bits of information
coming from the Saudi prosecutors about the nature in which Jamal Khashoggi died. Interestingly, though, as well, they are trying to deflect any
attention or responsibility away from the Saudi Crown Prince.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that that is the principle issue to have emerge from this, really, Hannah, is that.
And if I can run over the narrative, as laid out by the Saudi chief prosecutor, you will see where we're going with this.
So, in the first instance, as suggested by the foreign minister, there is no -- absolutely no finger blame pointing towards Mohammad bin Salman, the
Crown Prince. What they say happened is that the head of intelligence ordered an operation to go to a number of operatives, to go to Istanbul, to
interview and negotiate with Jamal Khashoggi, a prominent "Washington Post" columnist and much more widely respected around the world as a journalist
and critic of the regime. Persuade him to come home. If that was not going to be successful, then the mission was to make him go home.
Then what the prosecutor says that happened is that on the ground, the man in charge of this negotiation, an unknown individual, none of those five
charged with murder have been named, but this individual elected of his own back, to kill Khashoggi if it was not possible to persuade him to go home,
on the grounds that it was going to be difficult to move him to a safe house.
Then there was a scuffle, during which Mr. Khashoggi was injected with a fatal dose of some kind of sedative. His body was cut up. And then handed
over to a quote-unquote collaborator. The collaborator has only been identified by sketch -- Hannah.
JONES: And Sam, how plausible is it, in the Saudi structure, in the hierarchy, that the Crown Prince, Mohammad bin Salman would not have
ordered this killing, and that it was in fact, as, currently stated, the responsibility of a Saudi intelligence officer? How plausible is it that
MBS knew nothing about it?
KILEY: Well, I think that certainly from the Turkish perspective and I think even friends and allies of Saudi Arabia, there has been a position
all along that the orders to carry out such a complex and problematic operation in a foreign country must have come from the quote-unquote
highest levels. Now, how far up the food chain those orders were given? According to the Saudi prosecutor, it's pretty high up, it was the deputy
head of intelligence.
Nonetheless, that was the order to conduct the operation, to render him, or persuade him to go home. Not to kill him. It seems unlikely, I think many
people in the Saudi system, and students of the Saudi system, would think that somebody on the ground would elect to murder somebody ahead of the
operation, or while on the ground, rather than attempt to move them to a safe house. That's the first hole I think that the Turks would have in the
whole narrative here. And indeed, many of the allies around the world have made this point clear to the Saudis.
And then on top of that, to hand over a body to an as yet unnamed collaborator, the only identifying elements that the Saudis have come up
with is a sketch, which really does beg of the belief that one would hand over the results of a murder of an unknown individual, somebody for whom it
would appear the Saudi operatives on the ground didn't know his name or a code name, but have given the police -- the description to a police sketch
man, to come up with a sketch. That I think really does stretch credibility to the extreme levels.
But in terms of where the political blame for such a decision lie, the Saudis have been insisting all along that it was a standard operational
procedure or standing orders that dissidents and critics from the kingdom should be persuaded to return home, but there is definitely no indication
that there was any official policy to kill them.
JONES: OK, let's get back to Jomana Karadsheh. Jomana, I believe you're standing by, still outside the Saudi consulate there in Istanbul.
Apologies we lost you a little bit earlier on.
[10:25:00] With the talk of sanctions that has been talked about for a long time, really, ever since Jamal Khashoggi was killed, would the Turkish
authority, would the Turkish government be content with individual Saudis being sanctioned as opposed to the Saudi state?
KARADSHEH: Look, the position, Hannah, of the Turkish government, they say they want one thing. They want those who carried out the killing, and not
only the ones who carried it out, but also who ordered it, to be held accountable. They say they feel there is a coverup that is going on. That
is why they do not think a transparent and a credible investigation can take place in Saudi Arabia. So, their position has been clear, saying that
the perpetrators of the crime. The suspects that Saudi Arabia have detained, must be extradited to the place where the crime took place, and
that is here, to Turkey, to face justice here. And this is of course something that the Saudis are not even entertaining at this point.
Whether, you know, what kind of punishment, what kind of reaction is the international community going to have, Turkey has not really gone into
this. They say their top priority is to solve this crime. And there are two key questions they say that have remained unanswered. And he had said
they have put them forward to the Saudis several times and it is the key questions of where is the body of Jamal Khashoggi? Something that they
have also put forward to the Saudi chief prosecutor, when he visited here, and did not get the answers. Saying we heard the foreign minister again,
repeated today, saying if it was burned, if it was destroyed, if it was buried, where is it?
And then they say this whole local collaborator thing that Saudi Arabia keeps talking about is something that they changed the narrative on, flip-
flopped a few times, saying he didn't exist and now saying again there is a local collaborator and they say it is a sim question. If they know who it,
tell the Turkish authorities.
And the other key question is, who ordered the killing of Jamal Khashoggi? They are absolutely not convinced that this was a rogue operation as Sam
mentioned earlier. They believe it was ordered by the highest levels of the Saudi government. And therefore, I think they're getting to a point,
Hannah, where they feel they're not getting anywhere with the Saudi authorities, something that has gone on now for more than 40 days. They
feel it is a tactic of stalling, hoping that the world is going to move on. And that is why we've heard the foreign minister yesterday saying it looks
like we're at that point, where Turkey believes it might be a necessity to move this into an international investigation -- Hannah.
JONES: And of course, the long another body is found, the longer Jamal Khashoggi's family has to wait before they can bury him, of course. My
thanks to both of you, to Jomana Karadsheh in Istanbul, also to Sam Kiley in Abu Dhabi. Thank you.
Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. We will get you back to the houses of Parliament after the break. With all of the latest on the
ongoing political drama unfolding here in Britain today. That is all coming up, in the next few minutes. Stay tuned.
[10:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones live in London for you.
All day you have been watching special coverage of Brexit and the fallout from that deal that Theresa May, the Prime Minister, managed to secure.
Will she still be in the job by the end of the day? Well my colleague Hala Gorani is outside the U.K. Houses of Parliament right now for you. Hala,
over to you.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are learning that the Prime Minister has called a press conference for 5:00 p.m. local time,
which is in an hour and a half. We are going to learn then from the Prime Minister what her decision might be going forward. Is her position
untenable? That is the big question. It doesn't appear as though the numbers are in her favor when it comes to Parliament backing this draft
Brexit deal, which is one of the things that certainly are crucial going forward, in terms of the next hurdle.
She got her cabinet yesterday, in what seemed like a victory for her, to back this deal and then it was one resignation after the other, including
the Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab, who resigned saying he could not back this draft proposal. Joining me now is Ben Bradshaw. He's a Labour MP.
Thanks very much for joining us.
BEN BRADSHAW, BRITISH LABOUR MP: Pleasure, Hala.
GORANI: You have said Brexit is dead.
BRADSHAW: Correct.
GORANI: What does that mean exactly? Dead in what way?
BRADSHAW: Because she can't get the deal through Parliament. That is absolutely clear. And Parliament will not count on a no deal, which is the
alternative that the Prime Minister is presenting. So, the only way out of this mess for the United Kingdom now will be to have another referendum,
give the decision back to the people and I'm pretty confident that in that referendum when they're faced with the reality of Brexit, instead of the
fantasies they were sold in 2016, they will vote to stay in.
GORANI: What if she resigns today, then what?
BRADSHAW: It doesn't make any difference who the leader of the Conservative Party is. And I have to say, I think the last think we need
at this moment of national crisis is a nervous breakdown in the government. Because it doesn't change the Parliamentary arithmetic in that place. Any
other leader is not going to have any more luck.
GORANI: You need the political will to call a second referendum, the leader of your party, Jeremy Corbyn, for all intents and purposes, has been
very lukewarm in his support of remaining in the EU, and some might say maybe he is a closet Brexiteer, so where do you get this will from?
BRADSHAW: The Labour policy which is really what matters, it is clear that we oppose the deal. But we also oppose no deal. We'll call for a general
election. There won't be one under our constitution. You can't have a general election, unless conservative MP's also vote for one. So, the only
alternative then will be a people's vote. And I'm absolutely confident that Jeremy Corbyn will come in behind that at the time and that will be a
majority in Parliament for that.
GORANI: Let's talk also this effort by some MP's, to put letters into to ask for a vote of no confidence to unseat Theresa May as leader of the Tory
Party. Where do you think that's going?
BRADSHAW: What astonishes me about the hard Brexiteer right wing conservatives, is they have no alternatives. If you read their resignation
letters. They're explaining why their resigning but they're not offering the country an alternative. And as I say, it doesn't change the
Parliamentary arithmetic. If they think they'll be able to force our Parliament to crash out of the EU without Parliament consent and without
public consent they got something coming to them. It is completely, completely delusional.
GORANI: How likely is that? It as likely as any other scenario, at this point.
BRADSHAW: It is not.
GORANI: I mean, coming down to the wire here.
BRADSHAW: We are, but there's an overwhelming majority of members of Parliament who will not countenance crashing out without a deal. So that
won't happen. We will stop it.
GORANI: You're confident of that.
BRADSHAW: Parliament in this country, is sovereign. And if the government itself won't call another referendum, Parliament will force it to.
[10:35:00] GORANI: OK, so how does Parliament do that? You don't have a majority in your party? Your party does not have a majority.
BRADSHAW: No, but there is a majority of MP's across party. And by the time we get to that scenario where we're facing down the barrel of a no
deal gun, Labour will be in favor of it as will a majority of Parliament. And it's absolutely inconceivable that the government could ignore the will
of Parliament in those circumstances.
GORANI: Last question, we're seeing all around the world, of course, and people are, the most common question I get when I travel around the world,
when I tell people I live in London, is this irreversible? What could stop this? Because most Europeans, I think European leaders actually, would be
happy if the U.K. reversed its decision.
BRADSHAW: They would. And if we were to decide, for example, to have another vote, they would give us time. They would allow us to extend
article 50 to give us time to have a referendum. And look, this is a decision for us. It is not a decision for them. We've started this, with
the referendum. And I think we are going to have to finish it with another one.
GORANI: And what do you say to people who say to you, to that point, you've had the democratic process in the form of a referendum, the British
people spoke. Are you going to keep having referendums until you get the answer you like?
BRADSHAW: Well, firstly, democracy doesn't standstill at one point in time. People's views change. And people's views have changed on this.
And what we would be voting on this time would be the reality of Brexit. Rather than the fantasy version that was sold to the public in 2016.
GORANI: Ben Bradshaw, thank you so much.
BRADSHAW: Thank you, Hala.
GORANI: Appreciate it.
All right, quick word on the markets here. Because earlier, in the day, the pound really had lost a lot of ground against the dollar. It was about
2 percent lower. I want to check in on the currency market there to get a sense of how investors are digesting all of this. And once again, we are
close to the lows of the session. A little bit under 128 against the U.S. dollar. Anna Stewart is looking at how markets are reacting and our
political editor Nic Robertson is standing by at 10 Downing Street. Before we get to you, Anna, Nic, this news conference at 5:00, what is the
expectation?
ROBERTSON: Well, look, I mean this is the moment where Theresa May is either going to make a move -- she has been very, very clear all day, three
hours of relentless questioning, from MP's, and she kept to her position, that this is the best deal that we could have. This is in the interest of
the country. This is the direction that we're going to go in. We're going to take this to the European Union. We'll bring it back here, once it is
agreed, for a vote in the House of Parliament. She said she was confident she will be able to get it through. She kept up that message, that very
singular, very clear, very one-track message, without deviating. Despite calls for an extension to Brexit, to move the date, the 29th of March, you
know, down the road, if you will, despite calls for a second referendum. Despite many calls. She kept to that.
So, when she speaks, in a little under an hour and a half now, that will be an opportunity that she will have had perhaps to reflect on some of the
other resignations that have happened. Reflect on other conversations that she has been able to have today. Perhaps she has a better sense now of the
number of MP's that are putting in letters of no confidence. She will perhaps have had a chance to reflect on that. On what that means for her
political predicament. She will perhaps have had conversations, you know, with friends and colleagues, that have allowed her to take a different
view. So, this will be her opportunity to articulate that different view.
But until now, she has been absolutely singular in pursuing what she says is delivering in the best interests of the country. So, at the moment,
there is no indication she is deviating from that. However, in all of the chaos around, you can imagine the pressures and information that can be
changing all the time.
GORANI: Anna, I showed our viewers there, a look at what the pound is doing. What about stock markets, investors in general, the economic
implications here are huge, obviously.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTING: Yes, and I think investors are treading water ahead of this press statement, nervously waiting to see what will happen.
Standing still under pressure, as you say, off the day's low, but still down 1.6 percent. And it's really interesting, Hala, because actually the
FTSE 100 normally trades up when sterling is down. Because most of the companies on it make their money in dollars.
But actually, some of the sectors are so battered by this news, but it's actually brought the entire index down, which has come as a big surprise
actually across the board. Some of those sectors, of course, being domestic bank, RBS was down nearly 10 percent earlier today. House
builders', retailers like Next, like M&S. All being hit very hard as well. So, very anxious trading. We will see what the statement does. I will be
watching the sterling very, very closely.
GORANI: All right, and Nic, in terms of the resignations, obviously, it is difficult to anticipate but the fact that there has been six so far, it's
not inconceivable that you may have other high-profile resignations.
ROBERTSON: It is not inconceivable. Yet one of those names that was being circulated yesterday, as a possible resigner, Andrea Leadsom was there
sitting next to the Prime Minister, on the front benches today in the House of Parliament.
[10:40:00] So, all of the indications there, it seems that she is not moving at the moment. There were anticipations of others. And perhaps
when Theresa May speaks in an hour and a half, she will be giving us an indication of who she would replace those other -- those resigned ministers
in particular, the key and critical one, Dominic Raab, the Brexit secretary, two senior ministers, two junior secretaries, to private
secretaries gone, the vice chair of her party gone. So, this is very damaging. It's not insurmountable. But it would be a remarkably short
amount of time that she would have been able to find and pick replacements. But not impossible. Perhaps that's what she will be talking about later
this afternoon. But could there be more resignations? We're in unchartered territory. I will go back to that. It is absolutely possible
that there could be others -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, Nic Robertson, our diplomatic editor. Anna Stewart, thanks again, so much. Again, repeating our breaking news this hour. The
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Theresa May is holding a news conference in less than 90 minutes. The big question, will she announce
her resignation? Will she say she is sticking by her strategy of trying to push that draft text through Parliament? Will enough people ask or try to
push a vote of no confidence that would unseat her? So many questions still. But we will certainly have a little bit more clarity in about an
hour and a half. Hannah, for now, that's it, from us, we will see you at the top of the hour.
JONES: All right, thanks, Hala. Thank you very much, indeed.
Well, believe it or not the U.K. is not the only country currently rattled by political turmoil. In Israel, the fallout is far from over from the
resignation of the defense minister, Avigdor Lieberman. We're live in Jerusalem after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones in London for you.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to stave off a political crisis after the resignation of his defense minister. His
coalition is clinging to just a one-seat majority in Parliament. After Avigdor Lieberman pulled his party out. Now two ministers are calling for
early elections. And that's not all, though. Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu is now facing a threat from another official who is demanding the defense
minister's role. A lot to sort out there. And let's get all the details from Oren Liebermann standing by for us in Jerusalem. So, Oren, explain
how precarious the situation this is for Benjamin Netanyahu personally, his own leadership right now?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he is probably in the toughest spot since the beginning of this term which was in early 2015. Hannah,
earlier today, I told one of our anchors in Hong Kong that Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to stabilize the coalition, and he's playing all the
cards.
[10:45:00] A very different picture now. Just a few hours after that conversation. Two of his key coalition partners, the finance minister, the
interior minister, have called on him to have early elections and normally, he is the one in charge here, yet suddenly, it is a very different feeling.
Suddenly, he is being led to early elections. Not only did we have the defense minister's resignation yesterday, that left him with a bare minimum
61-seat coalition. But now the education minister has demanded the defense portfolio and said if you don't give it to me, I'm withdrawing, and that
would cause early elections. So, it looks like Netanyahu here is being led to early elections.
He did cancel an upcoming trip to Austria, that was supposed to be next week, very much to deal with what is becoming a coalition crisis here. He
is an expert politician within the Israeli system, whether you like him or not. But this one maybe too much for him to handle as more and more of his
coalition partners, more and more of his minister, not only call for early elections but certainly looked like they are preparing for that
inevitability.
JONES: And Oren here in London there is a lot of talk about votes of no confidence at the moment in the British Prime Minister, whether or not that
will happen we will wait to see. Is there the same sort of situation in the Israeli politics, in the Israeli Parliament, where by perhaps
Netanyahu's once allies, and foes, could actually submit letters as a vote of no confidence in him and topple him while keeping the government
together?
LIEBERMANN: So, it is a no confidence vote that could very much happen in the Israeli Parliament, in the Knesset. I doubt we'll get to that point.
Why? Netanyahu knows that looks horrible to lose a no confidence vote and if he feels that's coming deal simply go to early elections before that
happens. He'll make it look like he's the leader here and he's the one who made the decision before it gets to a no confidence vote.
Does he sense that? He hasn't made many statements in the last couple of days. He's been very quiet. He's certainly was very quiet during the 48
hours or so, or 72 hours escalation with Gaza. The worst 24 hours we've seen since the war. Once again, he's being very quiet. Weighing his
options, it seems right now. And deciding how he's getting out of this one or does he simply go to early elections.
JONES: All right, we will wait and see. We know you'll be staying across this for us. Oren, thanks very much indeed. Oren Liebermann live for us
there in Jerusalem.
Live from London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Still to come, on the program, Theresa May comes out swinging in Parliament. Fighting for her
political life. But resignations from ministers, well, they just keep piling up. We're going to go back to the big story of Brexit, coming up
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE BAKER, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: This backstop is completely intolerable and I feel confident in the unlikely event that legislation for
it reaches this house, it will be ferociously opposed.
MARK FRANCOIS, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: The stark reality Prime Minister, is that it was dead on arrival at Saint Tommy's before you stood up.
[10:50:00] So, I plead with you to accept the political reality of the situation you now face.
PAT MCFADDEN, BRITISH LABOUR MP: Is it not the case that far from taking back control, this is the biggest voluntary surrender of sovereignty to
think again.
JULIAN LEWIS, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: Can the Prime Minister describe any surer way of frustrating the referendum result, and ultimately remaining in
the European Union, than to accept a hotel California Brexit deal, which ensures that we can never truly leave the EU.
JACOB REES MOGG, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: As what my right honorable friend says and what my right honorable friend does no longer match, should
I not write to right honorable friend to member for all, and sail west.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: And Jacob Rees-Mogg you just saw at the end of that, did just that. He did indeed put in that vote of no confidence, that letter of no
confidence, for the Prime Minister. Some reaction there, overall, to the Brexit draft deal in London over the last few hours. Live from London this
hour, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones. Welcome back to you all.
So, a reminder of the breaking news we've been covering over the course of the whole day really, the last few hours in particular. The British Prime
Minister Theresa May is defiantly defending her Brexit plan, despite a day of major political resignation. The latest was within this hour, the vice
chairman of Mrs. May's own party, the Conservatives. But the most significant for Theresa May is the departure of her Brexit secretary,
Dominic Raab, who, of course negotiated the deal that's on the table at the moment.
There's also been a challenge from leading Brexiteer -- I just mentioned him, you heard him just now, Jacob Rees-Moog, who has submitted a letter of
no confidence in his own Prime Minister.
Let's go back to our Hala Gorani who is outside the U.K. Houses of Parliament. Hala, the latest we're hearing is that Theresa May will be
addressing the country, addressing the Parliament in just over an hour from now. It has been a mess of day. She has had her own MP's and on the
opposition benches, pleading with her to see the reality here. What can we expect?
GORANI: Well, you can expect a number of things. One of a number of things. She might come up to the podium at 10 Downing Street in an hour
and 10 minutes and say that she accepts that her position is untenable and that she will resign. She could also say that she continues to support her
effort to get this Brexit deal through Parliament. In which case you might have an option three down the road, which is that some members of her own
party, and some already have, sent these letters urging the party to conduct a vote of no confidence, that you might have enough letters to
unseat her. And then you would have a leadership contest in the Conservative Party. And once again, you would have a situation of
uncertainty, of political chaos, where it's unclear who is leading the party, and therefore who is leading the country.
But it is extremely significant that the Prime Minister's office has announced this news conference in a little over an hour. Because today was
a very difficult day for the Prime Minister, after what appeared to be a victory for her, when that draft Brexit tax that was agreed with the EU
seemed to receive the backing of her cabinet. But then today, a very high- profile resignation, her own Brexit secretary. This is the man who negotiated the deal and who said he needed to step down, because he
couldn't in good conscience support it -- Hannah.
JONES: Yes, and Hala, we heard for the first time yesterday, Mrs. May talking about it is either this deal, no deal, or no Brexit at all.
Interesting that she mentioned that no Brexit at all. That's what we've heard from Donald Tusk they're prepared for, from the European side, at
least, and perhaps then more ammunition for those people within Parliament, and outside as well, who are calling for that people's vote for a second
referendum.
GORANI: Well, certainly members of the opposition party, the Labour Party, in this country, are saying that this is potentially an opportunity to
organize a second referendum. To ask the people of Britain, now that you have the facts, now that you've seen the deal that was negotiated between
Theresa May and the EU, do you support this Brexit? Is this the Brexit that the country voted for? The big question is, is there political will
to get that through, really, because the leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, has been very lukewarm, and sometimes you could say that he has
said things that suggest he might not be a big fan of U.K. membership, of the EU. Very lukewarm supporter, on the remain side.
So, do you have enough political will, political capital, in the building behind me, to organize a second referendum before March 29 of next year?
That is officially when the U.K. is set to exit the EU. That is unclear as well. But I think we will have a lot more in terms of clarity about the
way forward, in an hour, when we hear directly from the Prime Minister about what she intends to do.
[10:55:02] JONES: OK, Hala, thanks very much indeed. I know you will be staying across all of the events happening there, live in Westminster, over
the course of the evening. So, to viewers who are just tuning in to us, it has been a very, very busy day here in London and across the U.K. as well.
Seven, six or seven Brexit ministers, certainly ministers within Theresa May's own cabinet, within her government, have resigned, but most
important, of course, being Dominic Raab the Brexit minister himself who actually negotiated the deal that Theresa May has put on the table to her
cabinet and is presumably still preparing to put to Parliament as well.
As for Parliament, well, she faced them for three hours today, getting a lot of criticism and accusations that she was in denial about the reality,
the political reality that our Prime Minister, the British Prime Minister currently faces. So, the latest coming up at 5:00 local time. That is in
just over an hour from now. Theresa May, the British Prime Minister will be addressing the public. We will find out what her latest feelings are on
Brexit.
I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones. That was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thanks so much for watching.
END
