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Connect the World
Populist Choices in U.S. and U.K. Paralyze Governments; Trump, May, Macron, Modi, Xi and More, Skipping Davos; Globalization Facing Uncertain Future as World Economic Forum Begins; Interview with Gebran Bassil, Lebanese Foreign Minister; U.S. Secretary of State Speaks to Davos Via Video Link; Interview with Omar Al Olama, UAE Minister of State for Artificial Intelligence; Interview with Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, Pakistani Documentary Filmmaker and Two Academy Awards and Six Emmy Awards Winner. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 22, 2019 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00] BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: It's on a mountain. It's a fortress- like chock full of plutocrats, politicians and celebrities. It's where else? But Davos, of course. I'm Becky Anderson here in this tiny Swiss
village turned high minded Summit focused on fixing the world. Connecting the world running through here for you this hour.
And right now the most important news in the world, blanketing this place like the snow itself, two of the world's biggest, most powerful
governments, as frozen as Davos. America waking up to day 32 of the longest government shutdown in itself history with lawmakers getting back
to work as we speak. The chances of ending it as of now, well it seems no way, no chance, no how. The American President propelled into the White
House with a populist agenda to drain the swamp, now just trying to get the government back to work.
But if there's something that's really not working, well that would be Brexit. The populist choice there turning into unpopular agony as the
country twists itself in knots trying to actually untie itself from the European Union.
So, both Donald Trump and Theresa May are skipping coming here this year to deal with populist problems back at home. And that kind of sums up the
state of play. The who's who this year, what actually a list of people who are not coming. China, France, India's leaders all out, too. And from
here, right around the world on everybody's mind this Davos wall of worry. And what connects this? Well the global popular mood against elite
gatherings like this in the first place.
While not the new Trump. He's worse. He's much an aberration from Brazil's past. He's a harbinger of the future his critics say. We are
talking the Brazilian President. My colleague, John Defterios, joining us now right where the Brazilian President just spoke. A newly elected
leader, John, one of those in this sort of popular ilk, as it were. A symbol of unashamed populism, some say. Sounds familiar, correct?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNNMONEY EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: He's more complicated, Becky. It's quite interesting here. He is one who is embracing the
globalism, if you will. The principles as he suggested of the World Economic Forum and the World Trade Organization. But on the terms that
Brazil is actually looking for. So he has to do almost an America first thing in Latin America as Brazil first.
But he's promising a lot, Becky. He's promising to kind of break a number of dishes along the way saying he has to fight corruption. Something that
this audience in Davos was very keen about. Number one, because of what happened with President Lula and his protege, Dilma Rousseff. And then
Michel Temer who came in after she was impeached and suggesting, I'll get the job done, do pension reform, cut taxes and it never happened. So
Bolsonaro, who is very strong, has a mandate. Paulo Guedes, his finance and economics minister, with a good reputation here in Davos, are saying
they're ready to do something radical in Brazil.
It's the largest economy in Latin America, competes fiercely for foreign direct investment in Mexico. And right now they want to come back and grow
again. The growth target for this year is just 2.5 percent. Not the heavy days, Becky, that you and I remember during the commodity boom of 6 percent
from Brazil. We have a guest here that just joined us, who actually had a meeting with Paulo Guedes this morning. She's the Chief Financial Officer
of Engie, which is a very large French energy firm and has a major presence in Brazil. I'm glad you made it. I know you're just coming out of the
speech, so thanks for hustling. Judith Hartmann is the CFO. You say you spoke with Paolo Guedes. What's the impression you get him and from the
speech of Mr. Bolsonaro about trying to do something quite radical here in Brazil?
JUDITH HARTMANN, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, ENGIE: So for sure, it seems there is very good traction here. You know, Brazil for us is a very
important country. And we are a very global company and Brazil is our second biggest country. So a lot of multibillion investments that we've
been doing over the last decade I would say. So we're watching this very closely. And I have to say I came out very positively from this meeting
with Paulo Guedes. He certainly seems self-defined on what he needs to go after. And he's got the background to look this through. Now of course
it's a big ship to move, so let's see what they can make happen.
DEFTERIOS: Were you frustrated by the fact you put billions of dollars into play here in this very large economy and saw all the political
infighting, and the corruption and the trials. This must be a breath of fresh air, although quite radical. He's a nationalist but embraces global
principles. More complex than most people think.
[10:05:00] HARTMANN: It is quite radical what he's doing. I will say though that what we've seen in energy policy, there has been a lot of
stability, even over the last decade with the ups and downs politically. So we fared very well in Brazil. But it's of course very important for us
to see now what's happening with the new government and he certainly asks for the right things, social reforms, making it easier to do business, the
tax reform is going to be very important. And the privatization, you know, which will help them reduce their interest payments and which will attract
a lot of investment into infrastructure that is really needed for the country.
DEFTERIOS: I've known you for about ten years. I want to get your thoughts of the fact that Trump is not here this year. It was pretty
chaotic with him on the ground at Davos last year. Almost a little bit spoiled by having this global media attention, someone wants to get all
this limelight on himself. What do you think with his absence and Bolsonaro getting so much attention, but some other players like Macron,
Merkel's coming tomorrow, but have decided to duck out? Theresa May the most obvious one.
HARTMANN: It is an interesting year I will say from that perspective, very, very unusual.
DEFTERIOS: Most unusual I've seen in a long time.
HARTMANN: But, you know, business goes on. We're obviously here to connect with each other, and so, no, it's a very positive spirit anyway and
it's fun to be here.
DEFTERIOS: Even with the downgrade by the IMF? It's not shocking but you can live with it?
HARTMANN: Yes, we can.
DEFTERIOS: You can muddle through it.
HARTMANN: Yes, we can muddle through that, exactly. If we stay at 3.5 percent, quite frankly, then I think there's still lots of opportunities to
be had.
DEFTERIOS: Thanks. Nice to see you. Thanks for making it. I know you were hustling from the other side after the speech with Mr. Bolsonaro.
HARTMANN: OK.
DEFTERIOS: Judith Hartmann, once again is the Chief Financial Officer of Engie, a very giant gas producer that has a major presence, as you heard
Becky, in Brazil itself.
ANDERSON: Right. Thank you, John. So Brazil's President, a man sometimes referred to as the Trump of the tropics stepping into the spot left empty
by his American counterpart who is back in Washington grappling with a government shutdown entering its 32nd day. Well joining me is Zanny Minton
Beddoes, who is editor-in-chief of "The Economist" magazine, and CNN business anchor, Julia Chatterley. Zanny, Bolsonaro then the star
attraction here. Pitching a new Brazil to a somewhat wary investor. Which says what about the state of the economy in 2019?
ZANNY MINTON BEDDOES, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE ECONOMIST: Well I think it says the fact that Donald Trump is not here and Theresa May is not here,
Emmanuel Macron is not here, suggests that he is the star. It reminds me actually of Trump coming here last year. Because there are a lot of
parallels between the real Trump and the Trump of the tropics. And I think Bolsonaro's election was a sense of frustration by the Brazilian people of
the corruption, the recession that they've gone through. They sort of ignored all of the awful signs -- things that made the county get going
again.
Remember last year when Donald Trump came? He made this speech and there was like people hanging off the staircase, as to watching the Davos elite
completely embraced him. He said America is open for business. He gave that kind of rousing speech.
I got a sense of that today. I think Bolsonaro is trying to do the same thing. And I think the same problems in the same questions are there.
Bolsonaro has not really got a record of being a great reformer. He didn't do very much in Congress on these things. Can economy that help Paolo
Guedes really get the pension reforms and the reforms that are needed through? And how much terrible stuff is going to be done on the social
side, on the human rights side? How much do we have to worry about that so I'm skeptical, definitely skeptical right now?
ANDERSON: Julia.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: I mean, I would argue that investors have warmed to this administration, even if they're
concerned about what the President has said. I mean, what we heard today, and the hope was that we would hear more about pension reform, but what
he's managed to do is make all the right promises. A populist through and through in order to get the vote and we've seen that work. The problem is
fulfilling those promises -- U.S. government shutdown. It's kind of hard off the back end. So I think he's going to be one to watch.
What he's managed to do, I think, is get the right message to the business community and investment community because he has an economy minister that
everyone trusts. So is this the way forward? You can be a populist leader as long as you've got the fire power of an economy minister that talks the
right language to the market and to investors. And right now he's got that line.
ANDERSON: You've got that to the global elite, of course. With all of this in mind, folks, we want to hear from you. Get your phones out and
head to CNN.com/join. J-O-I-N. We want to know what you think leaders should prioritize, national issues first or global issues first? Cast your
vote at CNN.com/join. You'll see the results on the screen as they come in. We'll be discussing your choice throughout the day.
I guess that begs the question, are those mutually exclusive?
BEDDOES: Well they can't be. If you are a government that only thinks about global issues and doesn't think about national issues, you're not
going to be in power very long. If your government that only thinks about narrow nationalistic issues and doesn't think about global ones, then were
all in serious trouble. Clearly, they have to come together. And it's clearly a win-win if we do things right.
[10:10:00] But the problem now, I think we are defining or many people -- particularly the populist nationalist crowd -- are defining nationalism as
my country at the expense of other countries. It's the drawbridge up mentality. And that's why people are so worried about what's happening to
globalization which has become a dirty word. And it is retreating. There's no doubt that trade flows are declining, relative to the share of
the world economy.
ANDERSON: I've been coming up here since 1999 with a few sort of down years. And every year there is this sense that those gathered here say
they will get on with sorting out the world economy and ensure that that is for social and global good. I wonder if either of you are really feeling
anything different this year.
BEDDOES: No. I haven't been got here very long, so far. I completely agree with you. Every year there's an awful lot of hand wringing amid the
smugness. There's a lot of very smug people around here. Quite a lot of handwringing. Yes, we need to improve globalization. We think of some new
terrible acronym. This year's theme is globalization 4.0. You know, I'm not entirely sure what that means. But I think it's going to meet --
Do you know what it means?
CHATTERLEY: Well I think it's the things that we don't have time to focus on right now. Because were too busy focusing on --
(CROSSTALK)
CHATTERLEY: I have two points to make. I'd argue that actually governments, countries can't even focus on the domestic issues. Look at
Emmanuel Macron, he's facing protests, trying to do right things for his country and reforming. So, let's bring it back to business. Because
that's was going on here. If your countries can't take action, business does. Look at all the business leaders, Amazon for all the criticism,
raising minimum wage in the U.K. and United States. Microsoft in the last couple of weeks trying to tackle housing in Seattle. Businesses are trying
to step up. We need to see more of that if countries can't respond.
BEDDOES: But businesses are pulling back. We're seeing the globalized world changing. We've got a big piece coming out this week. We're calling
it "Slowbalization" because the world is retreating. Globalization is retreating into more regional blocks. It's definitely a shift away.
Businesses are voting with its actions. Supply chains are narrowing.
ANDERSON: At a time with the Brexit chaos back at home, the Brexiteers, those who want to leave the EU say we're open for business, it's all about
doing trade with other countries, and not relying on the EU. I know you have a front cover this week which --
BEDDOES: Look at the figures. The figures on "Slowbalization" are the traders falling relative to the share of the world economy? Investment,
foreign investment is falling rapidly relative to the share of the world economy. Companies are not building global supply chains as much as they
used to. They're regionalizing. That's going to have really big consequences. And Brexit -- which we had on the cover this week -- the
mother of all messes is to me is an epiphany that Britain seems to -- or some people in Britain or many people want to go it alone globally just as
the world is fragmenting into these regions. And the one thing I've learned about Brexit this week, is I've never had so many people coming up
to me either with incredulity or empathy and say, I feel so sorry for you Brits. This is an exercise in brand distraction is what one American
businessman told me.
ANDERSON: You know, it's interesting, because for the last two if not three years that we've been coming, since the referendum in June 2016, it
has been fascinating to see other European economy ministers sweeping up or potentially sweeping up business that Britain might have had back in the
day. I'm not talking about with other European countries. I'm talking about with those who are from countries outside of the EU. The imprint on
Britain's reputation perhaps is damaging at present as to what happens next, post March 29th.
CHATTERLEY: I would completely agree with you. Whoever I speak to on a global basis, it's an embarrassment. Actually, Tina Fordham, Citigroup's
chief political strategist said to me it's a political nervous breakdown. That's how she described it. Get out of that one. Who knows?
BEDDOES: We're going on such a depressing area.
ANDERSON: No, but anyway, it's all good. Give me something to finish then with optimism.
BEDDOES: The world economy is not heading for a really catastrophic recession. A couple months ago --
ANDERSON: Not a risk of a huge recession.
BEDDOES: It's not exactly. I'm with her on that. I think it's not a risk of a huge recession. There is still time to do a lot of things people come
up here talking about doing but my goodness, they need to get on with them.
ANDERSON: Global issues, which should be a priority at this point? We are talking on this show, for example, all week about climate change.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
ANDERSON: About AI and technology, about where science will take us going forward. Are we going to get conversation, you know, decent conversations
up there, which might inform the widest story about the world economy?
CHATTERLEY: There's a lot of that. And that is what happens behind the scenes and we don't necessarily cover it all that much. Technology, the
skills gap that will be creating. How do we future proof our businesses? Hugely important. Education. You could argue a lot of the drive to
political extremes and the populism has been caused by, you know, longer, deep seated issues, education, healthcare, affordable healthcare. All
these things do get discussed here. We just get a little bit over taken by --
[10:15:00] (CROSSTALK)
BEDDOES: Action man.
ANDERSON: All right, listen, we've been asking you, our viewers, what you think leaders should prioritize. As you can see -- have a look at the
screen here. Nearly 70 percent of you think global issues are the priority. You'll see the results on the screen as they come in. This is
absolutely fascinating. We'll be discussing that throughout the day. Zanny Minton Beddoes, editor-in-chief of the economist magazine and my
colleague Julia Chatterley. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Cracking on live from Davos, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I am Becky Anderson.
Still to come, a Middle East nation caught in between dueling regional powers. I sit down with Lebanon's Foreign Minister to talked about the
influence Iran and Israel have in his country. And then we'll get to some other news making headlines around the world, including efforts to get the
U.S. government back to work. That's after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson live for you this week from Davos, in Switzerland.
Well it has been eight months since Lebanon's general elections, and though we know the results, no one has actually been able to form a government.
Well the Foreign Minister, Gebran Bassil, is the leader of one of the largest factions in Parliament the Free Patriotic Movement. He's here in
Davos and I sat down with him a short time ago and asked him if his country was getting even close to forming a government. This is what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEBRAN BASSIL, LEBANESE FOREIGN MINISTER: No, but it's different than Washington and London. They should make teach them how to run their
country without a budget. Because Lebanon, you know, gets adapted to every difficult situation. And I think we will be able soon to form a government
and to get out of this situation. Where our economy and there's a need for reshaping it.
ANDERSON: Let's talk about the economy. Because to be frank, it stands on the brink of ruin at present. Many calling it a shambles. People hitting
the streets protesting everything from corruption, to power outages, to the economy.
[10:20:00] A reported injection of nearly a billion dollars from Qatar, which is a highly controversial move given the politics of the region. Is
this a case of beggars can't be choosers at this point?
BASSIL: I cannot describe it as such that our economy is so bad, you know. Because it's a small economy. The Lebanese people has a great initiative.
And we can revive it very --
ANDERSON: It's the third worst debt to GDP ratio in the world, sir.
BASSIL: Yes, but we are still able to do it. Because again, we are resourceful and we can do it. We have skills and we have the ability to do
it. And we have countries who still believe in Lebanon. We have people who still believe in the need of the Lebanese model to counter all of what
we are facing. And I don't think for the sake of anybody to have a collapsed Lebanon, a collapsed model of Lebanon. What is the result of
this? There's more terrorism. There's more extremism and more violence. I think Lebanon is a bumper that can absorb so much of the clash of
civilizations we are seeing. And our economy is able to cope with such situations.
ANDERSON: Last year, as I understand it, the Saudis, the EU, the World Bank, there was an offer of something like ten times what Qatar is offering
to inject into the economy at present, on condition that Lebanon form a government. You didn't, and the rest is history. I put it to you again,
you have to accept, surely, that this Qatari injection of money is a controversial decision given the position between Qatar and the Saudi, a
traditional supporter of Lebanon.
BASSIL: You know, the Qataris are good investors. They are in the process of buying Lebanese bonds. And I invite others to do the same. Because
it's safe, and it has a good return.
ANDERSON: Is it safe? Moody's have just downgraded government bonds to junk position.
BASSIL: You know, knowing Lebanon, you know that we went through worse situations and we get out of them. So as I said, I invite others to do the
same. And I believe, sadly it's a different process. It's a framework of reforming our economy and getting loans from foreign organizations and
countries with real political will to assist the country.
ANDERSON: Let me ask you a question. What is Riyadh's reaction been to that cash out of interest? Do you know?
BASSIL: You know, they are welcomed to do the same and more. And I know they did before. And I believe that we are in the mode of encouraging the
Saudis, you know and other countries, our many friends in the world, to help Lebanon to stay stable. The world cannot allow to have a Lebanon that
is collapsing.
ANDERSON: Several leading experts have told me recently that the Israeli/Lebanon border is the most dangerous frontier as far as they are
concerned in 2019. Is that keeping you awake at night, Foreign Minister?
BASSIL: You know what's keeping me awake is the silence that is accompanying the daily Israeli breaches of our independence and
sovereignty. You know that we have more than 150 air and land breaches of 1701 U.N. Resolution. This is what is worrying. Where is the
international community silence about this?
ANDERSON: Well this is getting worse, not better as well, isn't it? We are seeing this direct confrontation now between Israel and Iran in Syria.
You're concerned.
BASSIL: You know, I want to see peace and stability on our borders. And 1701 is made for that purpose, but not to allow Israel to aggress us again.
So this intention of launching war against Lebanon, you know, is what's causing the reactions from the Lebanese. Israel wants to really assure its
security which is its right, then it should stop aggressing with force other countries. And they see a possibility for having a deal on the
borders. Because Lebanon, all what we are asking is our rights and our land.
ANDERSON: Is that border, the most frightening frontier for 2019?
BASSIL: No, you have also the maritime issue, where also we are requesting to have our rights and exploring our resources offshore oil and gas in
Lebanon. So again, this is another issue where we want and requesting to have our rights and exploring our resources offshore oil and gas in
Lebanon. So again, this is another issue where we want a solution based on the international laws.
You know what's the problem? Lebanon respects the international laws. Israel does not. Very simple. Israel launches wars. Lebanon never
aggressed Israel or any other country. That's the simple fact that we abide by the international laws and resolutions and Israel does not care
about anybody.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Lebanon's Foreign Minister speaking to me a little earlier on from Davos, where we are all week. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. Lots more
ahead on global instability, turmoil and populism. The burning issues it seems here at Davos. All that still to come. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson why this hour from Davos. If you're just joining us, you're more
than welcome.
It is day 32 of the longest U.S. government shutdown in history. And talks to get things back on track are frozen.
[10:30:00] Just like the ground in Washington after an arctic blast swept in, or indeed, the ground here in Davos. Sources say Democratic leaders
and Mr. Trump haven't spoken in more than ten days. But this week, we could see some movement. The Senate expected to take up President Trump's
new budget proposal today. But for now at least it doesn't appear to have enough Democratic support to pass.
Well meantime, another prominent Democrat lining up to challenge Mr. Trump for the presidency. Senator Kamala Harris, the latest to announced that
she will be running in 2020.
Well America's top diplomat, Mike Pompeo, just spoke here in Davos. He wasn't here in person. He spoke by video link after President Trump
canceled his entire delegation's trip. Pompeo spoke about economic matters -- as you would expect him to do so. And also backed up Mr. Trump's
controversial claims about ISIS.
He said, quote, it should not go unnoticed that we've also defeated an ISIS caliphate in Syria and in Iraq.
Well let's bring in CNN's Michelle Kosinski at the State Department. I'm not sure that's absolutely true. Is it?
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: It's surprising that numbers of the administration at keep doubling down on this claim. We
just heard it from Mike Pence days ago. And I would say what is far more noticeable are the ways that others are saying that ISIS is not defeated.
And even more visibly the ISIS claimed killing of U.S. service members and contractors just days ago in Syria. I mean, that was very noticeable, and
on the same day that the Vice President also said ISIS has been defeated.
So they want to keep making this claim, but on further scrutiny when they're questioned, they say, well, you know, we're going to keep working
with partners to defeat terrorism. But they obviously want to stick to this declaration that ISIS has been defeated. Also we just heard from the
President's former envoy to the coalition against ISIS, Brett McGurk, who resigned because the President claimed ISIS was defeated and said he was
pulling out of Syria. He just wrote a scathing op-ed on the fact that ISIS is truly not yet defeated and there are great challenges that remain in
Syria. And his and others concerns about what the role will be and what the final outcome will be when the U.S. does pull its troops out of Syria -
- Becky.
ANDERSON: Michelle Kosinski's at the State Department for you in Washington. Where it is 10:32 in the morning. Let's get you some other
world news that we are following. News that's on our radar.
One day after presenting her plan "B" Brexit deal to Parliament, British Prime Minister Theresa May talking to her cabinet about what a No Deal
Brexit would be like. Now a spokesperson for the Prime Minister told CNN that Mrs. May would do everything she can to prevent a Brexit that creates
a hard border with Ireland.
Paul Whelan, the U.S. citizen arrested for spying on Russia appeared in a Moscow courtroom on Tuesday. His request for bail was denied. His state
appointed lawyer says Whelan was in possession of a thumb drive containing classified information when he was arrested. He says Whelan thought the
drive -- he only bought the drive for -- he thought it to had vacation pictures on it.
Well CNN has learned that singer Chris Brown has been arrested in Paris. Brown and two other unidentified individuals are being accused of
aggravated rape and drug charges. Brown has had several run-ins with the law including multiple assault charges.
Authorities are searching for a small airplane that has vanished over the English Channel. French aviation officials say it had been carrying
Argentinean footballer, Emiliano Sala. His new club, Cardiff City, say there is genuine concern about his well-being. Sala was flying back from
Nantes in France, where he had just said good-bye to his former teammates after a transfer to the Welsh club.
Let's get you back to Davos at this hour and this week. The world's leaders -- or at least some of them -- gathered here for the annual World
Economic Forum shindig, as some call it. A focus of this year's events, the dangers of rising populism and inequality, issues we see in our
headlines on a daily basis. And optimism, well it seems in short supply. I've got to say, CEOs warn that Brexit and trade tensions between U.S. and
China threaten to drag down global growth.
Well as we continue this hour, I do want you to remember this is your show. We want to hear from you. Should leaders prioritize national issues or
global issues. Cast your vote at CNN.com/join. J-O-I-N. You'll see the results on the screen as they come in.
Well my next guest says there are few better symbols of the Trump's administration's chaotic relationships with the outside world than the
White House is last minute decision to pull the entire U.S. delegation out of this meeting here in Davos.
[10:35:06] Gideon Rachman is chief foreign affairs columnist for the "Financial Times". And is here to explain what you mean by that, Gideon?
GIDEON RACHMAN, CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, FINANCIAL TIMES: Well, I mean that it looked for a while that this was actually an unprecedentedly
grand U.S. delegation. I can't think of -- I've been coming for too many years -- any occasion in which the U.S. president, the Secretary of State,
the Treasury Secretary, everybody was coming and it was a big gesture of engagement with the world. And then suddenly it's canceled because of the
shutdown in Washington.
And it sends a message here that, you know, America is in a degree of chaos that it's turning in on itself. Kind of the opposite of what a confident
image they're trying to project. So there was an element of sort of giggling in the hall when Mike Pompeo appeared by video link because he
can't leave Washington because of the shutdown. And said, you know, everything is going brilliantly here. And people said, well really? Why
aren't you even here but to leave the country?
ANDERSON: In your most recent column you mentioned a range of flash points and threats from Brexit to the unprecedented nature of the United
States/Middle East policy. But you say -- and I quote you here -- the biggest geopolitical question facing the world is the future of the
relationship between its two largest economies, that being the U.S. and China. And you finish that article ominously. Storm clouds are gathering.
The question is how close is the tempest if we believe it is oncoming this year, 2019?
RACHMAN: I'm so extended whether that was about here. But let's continue with it. I mean, I think that you'll probably get a lull in the weather.
Because it looks like -- you can't be sure, obviously -- these negotiations between the U.S. and China might produce a truce that lasts for a while.
But I think the thing that must worry the Chinese in particular, is that there's been a big mood shift in the United States. Which actually extends
beyond the Democrats and the Republicans. It's the whole Washington establishment now, seem to see China a more adversarial light.
It was interesting again, and Pompeo's video presentation that he did talk about trade. But actually the first thing that he actually listed as a
problem was freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, where the two Navies are now kind of jostling each other on a regular basis. And then
when he said, oh well, I'm really optimistic. He said, you know, all it requires is for China to obey some basic principles on trade and also on
democracy. Now if he's waiting for China to become a democracy, it's going to be a long wait. So I think that there are kind of big structural issues
that will push the two countries towards a more adversarial relationship in the coming years.
ANDERSON: In the coming years, what we know is coming in the coming months, as it were, is Brexit, or at present it seems a lack thereof. But
there is a deadline, that is March 29th.
You have written and I have been discussing with other guests on this show about -- you know, many people who wanted to remain in the U.K. will say
there's valuable things that will be lost when and if -- or if and when -- Britain leaves the EU. You have talked though about the damage to
Britain's reputation. Whether that is more valuable than actually leaving the EU. This sort of mother of all messes as "The Economist" this week has
described it. This reputation for political stability, for social justice, is that wrecked at present?
RACHMAN: I wasn't thinking so much about the international reputation but the internal --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: -- international reputation.
RACHMAN: Absolutely, but I mean, that a think a while back when I was saying, you know, maybe -- although I regret Brexit -- if you can have a
Brexit that restores a degree of calm within the country, that might be a price worth paying. Because although the EU is an incredibly valuable
relationship are, I think, even more important is trying to restoring a degree of civility to British politics, which actually was quite unusual
and has been lost. And I mean, at the risk of alarming American audiences, I would worry actually that actually that we are heading towards a more
American style of politics, of hyper polarization, conspiracy theories on both sides, the two sides not talking to each other. So whether or not we
Brexit, in the end the more important thing is that we have this consensual style of politics in which people accept that the other side could win and
that is not the end of the world. And that's kind of at risk of being lost at the moment.
ANDERSON: Theresa May's government almost fully focused on national issues at present as opposed to global issues. And we've been asking our viewers
what they think leaders should prioritizing. And I could tell you I'm pretty sure, if I hazard a guess, that Theresa May would rather be thinking
about global issues at present. But this is, you know, front and center.
The results so far, viewers, you think that nearly 70 percent -- or 70 percent of you think that global issues are and should be the priority.
We're going to keep the results on the screen for you. Do keep voting on this, CNN.com/join.
[10:40:00] J-O-I-N. Join the conversation. As I said it before and I'll say it again, this is your show, not ours.
But Gideon's been a fantastic part of your show. Thank you for joining us. Enjoy Davos.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, in a world awash with manmade problems, could artificial intelligence help tackle those global
challenges? We'll talk to the UAE minister responsible for just that, for AI. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well a very warm welcome back to what is a very chilly Davos, in Switzerland. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for
you.
All this hour we've been asking you about whether or not government should put their own nation's interests first or if they should spend time on
solving global issues. Does the choice need to be that stark? Well how about using modern technology to solve some of these global challenges?
Can you say, use blockchain to verify the source of e fish you're having for dinner tonight to ensure it was caught in a sustainability way? That's
a pop quiz. You can find out whether that's actually possible. I know the answer. Or can you use AI to unlock the urban crawl making it easier to go
from one point to another? Well one country that isn't shying away from embracing global issues is where I'm usually based, the United Arab
Emirates. It even has a minister dedicated specifically to AI and its applications and he's joining me now, Minister Omar Al Olama. Let's begin
the issue that we've been discussing this hour. Do you have to choose between focusing on national issues rather than spending political capital
on global issues? Are they mutually exclusive?
OMAR AL OLAMA, UAE MINISTER OF STATE FOR ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE: Thank you for that question, Becky. And we're here to talk about globalization
4.2. Which in essence is the notion of we need to work together. Today challenges are extending beyond borders, whether it's climate change,
whether, you know, there are challenges that are on the internet, or challenges of disease. For example, spreading between countries. And
we're living in a very hyper connected planet right now. With air traffic between countries, with the shipping and so on and so forth. So we in the
UAE believe we need to think global, even if we wanted to act local. The fact of the matter is we have to focus on the global challenges. We also
have to work on the global opportunity, and then find our place there.
ANDERSON: The UAE betting big on artificial intelligence. I want to show viewers an incredible statistic. Your own ministry of economy estimates
that AI could rake in nearly $6 billion annually, and even boost GDP by 35 percent by 2030. You were the first ever AI minister, by the way, viewers.
[10:45:00] I'm not sure you still are. But I mean, you led the way, and you certainly I know want to be a center of excellence in the UAE for AI.
We've been talking for years A lot of this stuff can sound very theoretical. Give me a practical example of how AI is making a difference.
AL OLAMA: Thank you for that question. The first answer to the first of your question, is yes, I'm still only minister of artificial intelligence.
ANDERSON: Congratulations.
AL OLAMA: I hope that more of my kind will come out in the near future. The other thing is people actually see actually since we estimated that the
UAE is going to get more than excess of $60 billion just in efficiency savings if we deploy artificial intelligence across some key sectors in the
UAE. So the numbers are big. And you know, the bigger the country, the bigger the economy, the bigger the numbers.
When it comes to actually deploying artificial intelligence solutions that touch the lives of citizens, we need to focus on things that are ethically
and morally correct to deploy. But at the same time the type that people can see. So, one thing that we did was we saw that tuberculosis is a big
issue. It's one of the most widespread diseases on earth. 10 million new cases appear every year and 2 million people -- around 2 million people die
every year from it. And we are a tourist hub, as you know. We are a country that welcomes people from 200 nationalities from across the world.
And our airport has the busiest traffic on earth.
So we said to ourselves, how can we use artificial intelligence to diagnose tuberculosis? Right now in the UAE we deployed a system that can diagnose
tuberculosis better than the best doctors alone. The efficiency or the accuracy rate is around 85 percent to 95 percent. What we're going to do
is we are going to improve the diagnosis, develop a solution, and then work with other countries to deploy it in any country that needs to use the
solution.
ANDERSON: So you're saying these are realistic goals with some really practical solutions that you can sort of say we're wearing this on our arm.
This is going to work. I know, as I say, AI is embedded across ministries in the EU. Just finally, AI relies on an enormous amount of data. Big
tech hasn't been getting a good rep these past couple of years. Are you worried about any risk with this full-hearted embrace of artificial
intelligence?
AL OLAMA: So we think about it as sustainable embrace not full-hearted. Because we don't deploy AI on any technology that's going to displace
people in a negative way. That's going to impact their privacy in a negative way or impact their livelihoods as well.
So what we're doing is we're looking at where we can deploy artificial intelligence to have the biggest impact, but not in negative downside. So
we're deploying artificial intelligence in diagnostics. Where the downside is very minimal compared to the upside. We're deploying it in
infrastructure development. And in that sense as well, you know, that's a good opportunity. And then we're also deploying it in minerals and, you
know, oil extraction. So in these places you're going to have a lot of savings, a lot of efficiency, but the citizens are just going to benefit
from deploying this technology.
ANDERSON: Minister, it's a pleasure having you on. It's a lot colder here than it is back at home. We will see each other once again as the World
Government Summit, which is in Dubai in a couple of few weeks. Thank you very much.
AL OLAMA: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: Very fascinating stuff. Minister Omar Al Olama, minister of state for artificial intelligence in the UAE.
And viewers, a reminder, [10:50:00] we've been asking you what you think leaders should focus on. The results so far, more than 70 percent of you
think global issues are the priority. We're going to keep these results on the screen for you in the coming hours. Do get involved. CNN.com/join.
You're watching "CONNECT THE WORLD" with me, Becky Anderson, live from Davos. Coming up, I speak with a filmmaker fighting the patriarchy in one
of the world's most dangerous countries for women. That is coming up. Stay with us.
[10:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAIMA SHARIF, WOMAN IN PAKISTAN'S ELITE ANTI-TERRORISM UNIT (through translator): I had to ask myself what if the target in front of me was a
terrorist and that gave me the encouragement, I needed to pull the trigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A powerful scene there from the documentary "Freedom Fighters." The woman you just saw, Saima Sharif, is one of the few women in Pakistan's
elite anti-terrorism unit. Not only fighting dangerous groups like the Taliban but also battling for equal rights in what is one of the world's
most dangerous countries for women. Well the filmmaker behind this inspiring and in the age of the #me-too, we can say, timely documentary.
Joining us now Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is a two-time Oscar winner, journalist and activist. Her reporting ranges from exploring the ethics of honor
killings in Pakistan, to exposing corruption in college sports in the United States. Teaming up with great LeBron James to do it, no less. I'm
delighted to have you on. Let's talk about "Freedom Fighters." I mean, many people around the world will be saying about time too, but this is
unique, unique stuff. The idea that there are women activists in Pakistan who are, you know, making, it. Like pushing through.
SHARMEEN OBAID-CHINOY, PAKISTANI DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER AND ACTIVIST: Absolutely.
ANDERSON: Talk about, you know, the experience that you've had.
OBAID: Look, the story of Pakistan that has not been told is that women are fighting back, speaking up, asking for their rights and taking things
in their own hands. This film is the story of three women who are doing just that. Saima is part of this elite terrorism squad. When they go on
these raids, women lead. Saima leads the men. That's something that's unheard of. And that's the story that needs to be told. Because too often
we look at women as victims. You know, these are not victims. These are women who are fighters and survivors. And that's a very important story
that needs to be told.
ANDERSON: Just over a year ago the rape and murder of a 7-year-old made headlines around the world and sparked massive protests in Pakistan.
You're saying women like Saima are really, you know, breaking through. These are women on the front line of the battle for equal rights in
Pakistan. What has changed since that murder that I was talking alluding to, the rape and murder of that young child.
OBAID: You know, like any country, Pakistan 200 million people, you know, from the north to the south is such a different country. I think the
internet has changed Pakistan in a major way. Women are speaking up about sexual harassment. There speaking up about rape. They're also using the
internet to spread awareness about their rights. More and more women feel that the rights that are enshrined in the constitution should be given to
them. So in this film, for example, we have a woman who is fighting to free other women who are victims of domestic violence, for example.
Advising them on how to use the law and how to use the court system. So I think women are educating themselves and that's the key. And women, only
women can save other women I feel.
ANDERSON: I just wondering whether you saw that actually -- there are clearly women leading from the front. Is what you're saying that actually
for some time now there has been a movement in Pakistan that is actually being overlooked?
OBAID: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think so. I mean, I work and live in Pakistan and I will tell you that from grassroots communities right up to
the powers of echelon, women are making a difference. Not just educated women. I'm making films about women who don't even know how to read and
write but are using their voice to fight. And I think that is very important. Because it shows that women are -- feel like they have the
courage to move on.
[10:55:00] ANDERSON: You faced some serious backlash yourself in the past for your reporting. Where do you find that courage?
OBAID: I think if you want to make a better tomorrow for your kids -- I have two daughters -- and I want to make sure that they live in a country
that has equality for them. You know, I'm told stories from my grandmother who tells me that when Pakistan was made in 1947, the founder of that
country believed very strongly that women actually, were far stronger than men. Now from 1947 to 2019, that image has completely changed. I'm
fighting so that that image of Pakistan is brought back, that ethos is brought back.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Thank you very much indeed for being here in Davos and for joining us on the show. Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is an Academy award
winning documentary filmmaker and activist. It is a joy to have you on.
OBAID: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Before we go, we've been asking what you think leaders should be focusing on or prioritizing. The results so far, loud and clear, more than
70 percent of you think global issues are or should be the priority. It's your show, it's your vote. CNN.com/join to cast your vote. I'm Becky
Anderson. This was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thank you very much for watching.
END
