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Netanyahu Vows More Strikes After Gaza Rocket Barrage; Palestinian Activist Slams Kushner's Peace Plan; Venezuela And Russian Foreign Ministers Meet In Moscow; Israeli Ambassador Urging U.N. To Condemn Hamas; Turkey Condemns Israeli Strike That Hit News Agency; Turkish Cartoonist In Prison On Press Freedom Day. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 05, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[11:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you cure the disease a lot of the symptoms go away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, that's the plan at least, but no one but one man has really seen it as the deal to end all deals
comes together apparently, the streets of Gaza and of Israel under attack. CNN is taking you live to the border between them and breaking it down with
some high-level guests for you including Israel's ambassador to the U.N., then a peace plan for this part of the world. But what of Venezuela?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He is not looking at all to get involved in Venezuela other than he'd like to see something positive
happen for Venezuela. And I feel the same way --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that seems almost impossible to believe. Russia and America, in fact, seemed to be doing all they can to shape Venezuela their
way. We're of course live in Caracas with a full report for you. And dictators love jailing journalists. We speak to the friend of one
cartoonist slammed behind bars for drawing like this. That is ahead.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me Becky Anderson coming to you live from Abu Dhabi. It's just past 7:00 in the evening here on Sunday, May
5th. The big news right now as the Middle East waits to hear Donald Trump's so-called deal of the century, the people who would actually be
affected are themselves dealing with far more urgent matters.
Israel's Prime Minister promising more strikes against militants after a barrage of more than 400 rockets from Gaza. Israel has attacked around 260
targets in response to the attacks. There have been at least three deaths on the Israeli side, six in Gaza. In addition to that, there's dispute
about how Palestinian baby and pregnant mother were killed.
Well, this is some of the most intense exchange of fire that we've seen in recent years especially when you bear in mind that a truce was agreed just
last month. Oren Liebermann is at the Israel-Gaza border. Orin, why this escalation and why now?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've watched this escalation as it is has unfolded here. Since Saturday morning we've been
here for most of that time watching what started as small rocket fire from Gaza towards the Gaza periphery near where we're standing now to larger,
more powerful rockets that have targeted some of the largest cities in southern Israel.
And the same escalation coming from the Israeli side at first targeting Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad military posts along the border and
then escalating the multi-story buildings that the Israeli military says are terror infrastructure for Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. And
then the first targeted killing carried out by the IDF, the Israeli military in several years as they struck the vehicle with a chief finance
operative inside of the Gaza Strip.
That as we have seen this escalation. As you point out Becky, it shatters what had been weeks of relative calm. And as Israel and Hamas with Gaza --
with Egypt -- I'm sorry in the United Nations mediating, we're working towards some sort of long-term ceasefire and by all accounts that were
outward signs that they were making serious progress.
That's all shattered on Friday afternoon when Israel says sniper fire from Gaza wounded two Israeli soldiers. An Israeli response against the Hamas
military post killed two militant operatives there. And that is what led us into the escalation on Friday -- on Saturday that is.
Interestingly, Israel says although it holds Hamas responsible for what happens in the Gaza Strip, Israel is pointing the finger at Palestinian
Islamic Jihad saying it's that that militant group who fired the sniper fire and it is that militant group whose interest is in continuing to
destabilize the situation.
Meanwhile, as you pointed out, there have been three killed on the Israeli side. To this point, there have been 11 killed on the Palestinian side
according to the Ministry of Health including six Likud's fighters. This does not show any signs of stopping and that's exactly what Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu said a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL (through translator): This morning, I instructed the IDF to continue with massive strikes against
terrorists in the Gaza Strip. And I also instructed that forces around the Gaza Strip be stepped up with tank, artillery, and infantry forces. Hamas
bears responsibility not only for its own attacks in actions but also for those of the Islamic Jihad for which to pay is a very high price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIEBERMANN: As Egypt and the U.N. are trying to work to restore some sort of ceasefire here, that certainly doesn't seem likely in the immediate
future. But it's important to note that we've seen this develop in stages as I pointed out, from the smaller rocket fire the more powerful rockets
that even a guided anti-tank missile that was fired on a -- on a civilian car killing an Israeli civilian inside of that car. Same thing on the
Israeli side, from targeting smaller military posts to larger buildings to a targeted killing.
It is because of these advances in that sort of staged way from one framework to another that there always remains through the possibility of a
de-escalation before we're talking about an all-out war. Becky, let's remember that in this go ongoing conflict, then perhaps any conflict in the
world, there aren't really two sides that know each other this intimately as Israel and Gaza. So they understand each other and they very mature
stand understand how this develops.
[11:05:46] ANDERSON: And you've rightly pointed out. We've seen casualties on both sides including a baby. The responsibility for that
baby's death disputed. Oren, explain.
LIEBERMANN: A baby and a pregnant mother from the same extended family. This is from Saturday evening, Saturday night. The Palestinian Ministry of
Health says they were killed in an Israeli airstrike. It took Israel a while to respond, but Israel says its assessment is that it would -- the
two were killed by a malfunctioning Hamas rocket.
So there's a dispute here as we have seen so often a dispute especially when it comes to the deaths of young children about whose fault this really
is. And that dispute playing out not only between the authorities but also in social media as well we have seen.
ANDERSON: Oren, the idea says that the Iron Dome Aerial Defense System intercepted dozens of these incoming rockets. Our colleague Fred Pleitgen
spoke to one of the people behind the defense system when it was first implemented. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISRAEL OZNOVICH, ISRAEL AIRCRAFT INDUSTRIES: The radar searches, locates, tracks and intercepts and guides the intercepting missiles within several
seconds, few seconds within the launching time.
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's extremely hard to shoot down short distance rockets like the ones coming out of Gaza in
part because they're not in the air long enough for older radar systems to lock onto them.
OZNOVICH: The target is moving extremely fast. When you want to intercept it, you have to work -- you have to move faster with more agility, with
more maneuvering power relative to your target.
PLEITGEN: The Iron Dome was only put into service in 2011. With breakthroughs in technology, it can detect and shoot down multiple targets
in midair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Why isn't the Iron Dome stocking -- stopping all of these rocket attacks? Is it clear?
LIEBERMANN: It is pretty much clear. I can't answer definitively but I've seen Iron Dome intercept dozens of rockets just from where we're standing.
Israel says it's intercepted more than 150 of the 600 rockets fired. It is an amazing system in that sense. And we have seen Rockets do almost 180 in
midair to intercept another rocket.
It is not a perfect system. It relies on quality and not quantity which means it can be overwhelmed. And we have seen militants in Gaza batch
firing rockets. You won't see one rocket here, another rocket in a few minutes. You'll see them batch fire 10, 15, 20 rockets at a time perhaps
with the intent simply to overwhelm Iron Dome because it can't track that many rockets at once.
That's why even though Israel says it has an 86, 87 percent interception rate over the course for the past 36 hours, there are still rockets that
get through. Those rockets will hit cities like Ashkelon and Be'er Sheva. Israel says to this point 35 rockets have landed in open areas -- I'm sorry
in urban areas.
ANDERSON: Oren Liebermann on the border for you. Oren, thank you. That's the story on the ground. Given what is going on, peace between Israelis
and Palestinians looks as far away as ever doesn't it. But a plan for peace at least is afoot.
Jared Kushner, the U.S. President's son-in-law, an architect of Middle East peace proposals gave us a big hint about his forthcoming plan. We learned
that it is heavy on detail and light on one familiar phrase.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED KUSHNER, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've put together over the last year is I would say more of an in-depth
operational document that shows what we think it's possible and how the people could live together, how security could work, how interaction can
work and really how do you try to form the outline of what a brighter future could be.
This happened early on. They're saying you know, two state versus one state. You're just -- you know, you can't say two state. I realize that
means different things to different people. If you say two state, it means one thing to the Israelis, it means one thing to the Palestinians. And we
said you know, let's just not say it. Let's just -- let's just say let's work on the details of what this means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that's Jared Kushner speaking. A member of the Palestinian Parliament and President of the Palestinian National Initiative
slamming what Jared Kushner has outlined. Mustafa Barghouti writes in part that it's not a plan for a viable solution or even negotiation. Mustafa
Barghouti joins me now live from Ramallah in the West Bank.
And I want to talk about the latest escalation between the Israelis in Gaza shortly. First though, sir, your take on what you heard from Jared
Kushner.
[11:10:23] MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI, PRESIDENT, PALESTINIAN NATIONAL INITIATIVE: Well, I think unfortunately what Mr. Kushner and Greenblatt have declared
so many times and what they are doing on the ground including recognition of Jerusalem as a capital of Israel and the annexation of the Golan Heights
is nothing but actual line-by-line implementation of Netanyahu's ideas that he has put in a book 25 years ago.
His goal is to kill the two-state solution. His goal is to kill the possibility of peace based on the establishment of a Palestinian
independent state. His goal is to keep occupation and the system of apartheid that is much worse than what prevailed in South Africa at one
point of time. And unfortunately all we see in the statements of Mr. Kirchner and Greenblatt is only repetition of what Netanyahu wanted, what
Netanyahu planned, and this is totally unfortunate because it makes the United States a participant in violation of international law.
ANDERSON: Mr. Barghouti, interestingly in that same event, Jarred Kushner actually conceded that the Jerusalem move -- the U.S. Embassy move to
Jerusalem hasn't actually helped the sell of this plan to those that he says need to know the details at this point.
Look, you were one of the delegates involved in the Madrid peace negotiations initiated in 1991. We are talking nearly 30 years ago.
Nothing has worked today. So Jared Kushner says he is abandoning old ideas and looking at it he says, with a new perspective. Do you at least concede
that new thinking, fresh perspective is needed at this point?
BARGHOUTI: Well, if it wasn't -- if there wasn't enough pressure on Israel to end the military occupation of Palestinian territories and stop the
evolution of illegal settlements and the building of a system of apartheid, then it is really strange that the alternative is to accept all these
unlawful actions that will kill any possibility for peace. And what we see in Gaza today is an example of that situation. So far --
ANDERSON: But sir, can I just stop you for one moment. With respect, can I stop you for just one moment?
BARGHOUTI: Please.
ANDERSON: I did -- I did ask a specific question.
BARGHOUTI: Sure.
ANDERSON: Do you concede that new thinking, fresh perspective is needed if peace is to be achieved?
BARGHOUTI: Yes, I do. But fresh thinking should be that Israel should be held responsible for its actions. And Israel should not be allowed to be
in punitive and above international law. A new thinking should be helping the Palestinians get their freedom and get what everybody else has in this
world which is freedom and independence from occupation and from a system of apartheid. That what a new thinking would be good for the United
States.
ANDERSON: Mr. Barghouti, we are literally seeing death and destruction or on both sides in a crisis that's becoming one of the longest-running in
modern times. And if this is to stop, something has got to change. Later in the program, we'll speak to the Israeli ambassador to the U.N. But
first with the Trump deal coming realistically, what do Palestinians do now?
BARGHOUTI: In my opinion, Palestinians should be unified. They should -- all end all forms of internal division. We should make our stands and
positions clear to the world. But also we should make it very clear to Mr. Trump that we will not give up our right to be free, that we will not
accept a system or a plan that would make us slaves of apartheid and slaves of occupation for the rest of our lives.
It should be clear to the world that we the Palestinians are determined to get our freedom and peace has to be based on justice. At least the minimum
of justice where Palestinians will be freed from a long-standing occupation, the longest in modern history, and freed from a system of
apartheid that is discriminating against us in every aspect of our life.
We should be freed from our insecurities. We don't have security as you have just said in your -- in your talk, a child who's 14-months-old, a
Palestinian child was killed by Israeli bombardment and there is no limit to how far the Israeli army can go in lying and claiming that she was
killed with Palestinian fire. This is -- this in my opinion --
[11:15:08] ANDERSON: Mustafa Barghouti --
BARGHOUTI: -- are examples of situation of impossible approach.
ANDERSON: And we are going to leave it there. We always appreciate your thoughts, your analysis, it's important. Thank you.
BARGHOUTI: Thank you.
ANDERSON: As we mentioned, the Israeli ambassador to the U.N. will be joining us a little later. I'll speak with Danny Danon in about 20 minutes
from now, so do stay with us for that. Well, to tensions in another part of the world. Meantime, North Korea now confirming that it tested weapons
on Saturday.
State media report the test included long-range rocket launchers in what Pyongyang called tactical guided weapons. Analyst poring over data from
the test but no one is using the word missile, at least not so far.
North Korean leader Kim Jong-un personally oversaw the test. This comes as denuclearization talks have stalled between North Korea and the United
States. Now, U.S. President Donald Trump is still hopeful that Mr. Kim will keep his promises to the U.S. Sarah Westwood will bring us reaction
from the White House. First though, strong words from Seoul. CNN's Paula Hancocks filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, we now know what North Korea says that they tested. We have the images of the long-
range multiple rocket launcher, and also this tactical guided weapons system. We're hearing from the Defense Ministry here in South Korea that
they believe that that is a new model.
So it doesn't look as though Pyongyang is trying out new tests, and we're hearing something similar from experts in the region as well. But what
we're not hearing from officials at least is the word missile. We're hearing from many experts they're looking at these images saying call a
spade a spade. One of those projectiles as South Korea is calling it clearly looks like a short-range ballistic missile.
And this is important because the U.S. President Donald Trump has consistently said, as long as North Korea is not testing missiles or
testing nuclear capabilities, then he's happy. Now, many in the Trump administration do not agree with that assessment but President Trump is
stuck to that line. And of course, now, this does appear as though this is exactly what Kim Jong-un is doing.
Clearly, he wanted to show this off. He had Ri Chun-hee who was the top news anchor in North Korea that they always roll out for these big tests
and big announcements. Becky?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Right. Let's get more reaction from Washington and get you to Sarah Westwood who is at the White House. Before we talk, Sarah, let's
just have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Rocketman is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that was from September 2017, a very different narrative now, Sarah.
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Definitely, Becky, a shift in tone from this president. We're far from the days of Rocketman and fire
and fury. The president is instead trying to maintain this perception that he does have a rock-solid relationship with Kim Jong-un despite the
developments that we've seen over the weekend.
Keep in mind that the president is really banking on his personal connection with Kim Jong-un or what he thinks he has with the North Korean
leader to further denuclearization talks that otherwise don't really have a path forward at the moment.
The President left the summit in Vietnam in February meeting with Kim Jong- un empty-handed, no progress toward that denuclearization agreement. The President weighed in on Twitter yesterday and he wrote in part. "I believe
that Kim Jong-un fully realizes the great economic potential of North Korea and will do nothing to interfere or end it. He also knows that I am with
him and does not want to break his promise to me."
Again, as Paula mentioned, the President has pointed to the lack of tests, the lack of launches from North Korea as evidence that his strategy of
engaging with North Korea is working. But with these launches that we saw on Friday, that could undercut the President's position when he's defending
his North Korea policy here at home, Becky.
ANDERSON: Sarah Westwood is in Washington, thank you. Well, after a dramatic week that saw plans for attempted coup fall apart in Venezuela,
the embattled president is telling his troops to get ready to fight off a U.S. attack. Meanwhile, U.S. officials warn Russia to stay out of the
crisis. We have live report from the streets of Caracas for you coming up.
And the pen is mightier than the sword and it can be just as dangerous too. Outdrawing truth to power in these political cartoons landed one Turkish
cartoonist in jail. And later, an unprecedented upset at the Kentucky Derby. The first-ever winner by disqualification at America's most famous
horse race. The details on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:20:00] ANDERSON: Well, clashes continue this weekend between opposition protesters and forces loyal to the embattled President Nicolas
Maduro in northwestern Venezuela. The National Guard pushing back marches with tear gas as you see here while following a week of escalating
tensions.
Venezuela's foreign minister is in Moscow this hour speaking with his Russian counterpart. The meeting comes amid a brewing proxy battle in
Venezuela with the U.S. and Russia both blaming each other for interfering in the country's political crisis.
Well, with last week's dramatic uprising by the opposition losing steam, top U.S. officials have blamed Russia for propping up embattled president
Nicolas Maduro's regime going as far as saying the Russian president prevented Mr. Maduro from stepping down. And the U.S. national security
adviser calling on Russia to butt out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think it reflects the role Russia has in Venezuela. I don't say this is an ideological
conflict but this is our hemisphere. It's not where the Russians ought to be interfering. This is a mistake on their part. It's not going to lead
to an improvement of relations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, in complete opposition to his own administration then, Mr. Trump says Russian President Vladimir Putin is not meddling in Venezuela.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He is not looking at all to get involved in Venezuela other than he'd like to see something positive happen for Venezuela and I feel the
same way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So how is this all playing out on the streets of Venezuela? CNN's Paula Newton is on the ground in the capital of Caracas. And we have
heard time and time again, politicians, lawmakers in various parts of the world, it has to be said, saying you know, what happens in Venezuela should
be left to Venezuelans. Quite frankly it is clear that that is not what's going on. How is all of this playing out on the ground?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- loyal to the opposition and there is confusion of course, Becky, because just a few days ago, we had that failed
uprising from Juan Guaido. Consider now that we have Venezuela and Russia talking in Moscow, that while we have the President's national security
team telling him look, all options are on the table, saying this is our hemisphere, Russia but out. You then had that almost magnanimous comment
from the President himself saying look Russia is not looking to get involved in Venezuela.
I'm sure, I'm positive, Becky, that the President would have turned to his national security team and said why it didn't happen, why was it a failed
uprising. You thought this would be relatively easy. What is at stake now, Becky, is the future of Nicolas Maduro. And while Russia may want to
see a different way forward especially for the economy here in Venezuela, they do not want to see a different way forward for Nicolas Maduro.
[11:25:25] And I want to go back to those words, Becky, "this is our hemisphere." That's why any kind of proxy war if you will, it isn't a war
obviously, but people will be looking at this very closely. It was one thing in Syria when Russia had gotten involved and pretty much got its way
for the last few months. This is much different.
And right now the national security team in the United States is trying to square with what the president wants to see and saying you said this
opposition could do it. You said this opposition wouldn't be able to seize power in Venezuela and do it with some modicum of legality and have free
and fair elections.
We are far from that right now, Becky. And Juan Guaido himself were saying repeatedly this week we just underestimated the amount of military that
wanted to come over to our side.
ANDERSON: Yes. You're absolutely right. So last week we saw some dramatic scenes on the streets of Caracas including this one of Venezuelan
National Guard trucks ramming into protesters. How are both sides reacting to the escalations in violence that we have seen?
NEWTON: Yes, absolutely. Well, the opposition supporters are now reacting with fear. I've seen this happen over the last couple years, Becky, where
the government has gotten much more effective at repressing those opposition protesters and that is insidious at a certain point, really
sometimes even going door to door and warning them not to go out and protest.
And for the opposition, it was a very tough day. Yesterday they had called on thousands, tens of thousands to go onto the street and go to military
installations. That's not how things turned out. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: They return to where the opposition uprising had failed just days earlier, pleading join us. Venezuela is dying, she says. The slogans and
anthems fell on deaf ears.
The protesters arrived here trying to follow opposition instructions. They want to be able to convince the military that you will get amnesty. Come
and join us. But within moments of the protesters arriving, the military wasn't having any of it. They deployed to the front gates and then used
tear gas immediately.
It was a reflexive move though. Even soldiers realized they had nothing to fear. The opposition turnout was less than expected and protesters were
mostly forlorn. Opposition leader Juan Guaido himself was a no-show except on social media where he said they weren't looking to confront or provoke.
Despite the dispiriting week of events, opposition supporters say they aren't looking for the U.S. to step in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think that a citizen we need intervention. I think that us, Venezuela, are very capable of doing what we are doing
today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is really important for our people to be safe. And we right now, we cannot support our happening in our country.
NEWTON: Today's contrast was stark though as Nicolas Maduro and yet another stirring military photo opportunity told his troops to be ready for
war, to defend Venezuela against U.S. forces should they quote dare touch our land.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I will never give up. Do not ever give up in combat, in resistance, and in victory.
NEWTON: His words will give pause to the opposition and its supporters left to contemplate a dramatic few days that brought them no closer to
seizing power.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: And Becky, when I say stirring military photo opportunities, think that days earlier he literally had soldiers kneeling at his feet pledging
allegiance. Yes, they may just be photo opportunities, but right now at stake is the future of this country and Nicolas Maduro's future in it with
Russia saying there is no agreement unless Nicolas Maduro stays in place here. Becky?
ANDERSON: Paula Newton in Caracas for you. Paula, thank you. Well, while President Trump may be downplaying talk of a proxy fight with Russia in
Venezuela, that isn't stopping some of his allies from calling for military intervention. Lindsey Graham recently tweeting "Cuba, Russia, sent troops
to prop Maduro up in Venezuela while we talk sanctions. Where's our aircraft carrier?
Which raises the question is he asking that in a philosophical military sense or does he know that a U.S. aircraft carrier is on the way and is
asking why isn't it there by now. A story we will continue to watch closely for you this week on CONNECT THE WORLD and online, a strange
sidebar to the unfolding political crisis in Venezuela.
[11:30:11] This is a story of a group of anti-war American activists who are currently occupying the Venezuelan embassy in Washington. They moved
into the building when embassy staff loyal to President Maduro left. They say, they oppose what they call a U.S.-backed coup in Venezuela. You can
read that story on cnn.com.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT WORLD. Coming up, the other side of our top story. I've just spoken with the Palestinian national
representative from the Palestinian national initiative. And next, I'll hear from Israel's ambassador to the U.N., and pressed him on why the
intensity of strikes on Gaza is only escalating. And what chance the U.S. peace plan stands in this violent climate. That, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, returning to our top story this hour. The major escalation and violence along the Israel-Gaza border. Israel carrying out
waves of attacks on what it deems to be terror targets inside Gaza, and Israel's prime minister vowing to keep it up.
All the strikes are in response to ongoing rocket fire from Gaza into Israel. Israel says there's been 600 of them so far. There have been, at
least, three deaths reported on the Israeli side and six in Gaza.
Well, my next guest is Israel's ambassador to the United Nations Danny Danon. Before this latest flare-up of violence, he recently turned to the
Bible as a way to defend Israel's territorial claims. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[11:35:14] DANNY DANON, AMBASSADOR OF ISRAEL TO THE UNITED NATIONS: "And I will establish my covenant between me and you, and your descendants after
you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant. And I will give to you and to your descendants after you all the land of Canaan for an
everlasting position, and I will be their God." This is it did to our land.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And the Israeli deputy defense minister until mid-2014, ambassador to the U.N. Danny Danon, joining me now live from Jerusalem.
Sir, land for peace is, of course, the legalistic interpretation of U.N. Security Council Resolution 242, which has been used as the basis of Arab-
Israeli peacemaking in recent history. When you look at what is going on at present between the Israelis and Hamas and Islamic Jihad, both or one of
which in Gaza, what chance of peace, sir?
DANON: Oh, we have to look at the facts, Becky. The fact that Israel withdrew from Gaza completely in 2005, you don't have any so-called
settlements, no occupation in Gaza. Hamas took over a few months after we left Gaza. And today, look what happened, Hamas is committing a double-
walled crime. They are targeting Israeli civilian population while hiding behind the poor people in Gaza.
We are defending our people, we are trying to minimize the casualties among Palestinian civilians, but we are determined to protect our people, and we
will come after the leadership of Hamas, the leadership of Islamic Jihad, all of those radicals who are trying to create chaos in Israel.
ANDERSON: And meantime, too many -- 2 million people live in chastened conditions. So, you issued a statement calling on the U.N. Security
Council to condemn Hamas. Writing, "Take this opportunity to finally condemn terrorism against Israel, designate Hamas as a terrorist
organization and support the fundamental right of Israel to self-defense." How will that help?
(CROSSTALK)
DANON: Becky, condemning Hamas, you know, the important for Israel. It's important for the civilians who live in Gaza. The day we will be able to
exterminate Hamas, the people of Gaza will celebrate. Look what's happening there when the international community transfers funds or cement
to build their hospitals or schools. They use that cement to build tunnels, to penetrate into Israel, they use metals to build rockets to
attack Israel. They just send in 24 hours more than 600 rockets.
You know how much time, much money, how much energy they put into this industry of terror? So, I think that about time that the Security Council
will designate Hamas as a terrorist organization and will detonate those who support the terrorist organization. Mainly, Iran who backed Hamas on a
daily base.
ANDERSON: Let's remind ourselves that meantime, as lawmakers, and diplomats talk, once again, 2 million people trapped in Gaza, at least
living in chastened conditions. Israelis on the border also in fear of their lives. At some point, we all know that something needs to happen to
put people out of their misery.
Jared Kushner announcing that he walked very soon provide the sort of framework for what he believes is, at least, the bones for a peace deal.
Now, you've put out what you call your four pillars for peace. First that Palestinians must recognize the Jewish state of Israel. Two, Palestinians
must end their campaign of incitement. Three, regional cooperation, and four, Israel will never compromise its security. Those are very valid.
(CROSSTALK)
DANON: We are committed to peace.
ANDERSON: Hang on, sir. The Palestinians on their part will say, as they watch a new prime minister talked about annexing further land in the West
Bank, where is the land for peace narrative? And for 30 years, that has been the narrative. Do you concede -- and I put this question to Mustafa
Barghouti a little earlier in the show. Do you concede that new thinking and fresh perspective is needed, and that compromise is needed on both
sides?
[11:40:07] DANON: We are committed to peace, and we proved it. In the past, we had five rules with Egypt, and we signed 40 years ago a very
important peace treaty with the Egyptians. And today, we cooperate with them fighting terrorism in the region. We signed a treaty with Jordan.
But we are waiting for this that of the Palestinians to emerge. To come and to say enough with the bloodshed, enough with terrorism, enough with
the incitement, let's have a dialogue. We don't see it happen.
In Gaza, you have a terrorist organization. But also in the PNA, in Ramallah, we don't think that today you have a viable partner. We are
expecting to see the peace plan coming from Washington. We respect the work of the administration. We haven't seen the details, Becky. But we
respect it, we would engage.
On the other hand, the Palestinians say out loud. "Don't even bother to stand us the peace plan. We don't want to look at it, we don't want to
have any negotiation with Israelis.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Danny Danon -- Danny Danon, you've laid out in detail there your position. The Palestinians will say, what about borders, what about right
of return, what about Jerusalem?
I ask you again, and it's interesting that you say you haven't seen the details of this plan. Jared Kushner, just on Friday suggesting that those
who need to see this plan, those involved actually do know the details. So, you know, perhaps he feels that you sort of want one leg removed from
that. But do you concede that fresh thinking and a new perspective is needed?
DANON: We are open-minded, we are willing to negotiate. But for that, you did the other side to step into the room and to negotiate. To stop the
incitement, to stop terrorism, to stop sending rockets and missiles. What do you think today, 9 million Israelis think when they wake up in the
morning after a night that they had to run to the shelter, three or four times a night.?
Do you think --you know, they don't think about peace. They think about survival, they think about security. And that's exactly what the
government is determined to provide is security. But when the time will come, we will enter the room, we will negotiate, we will be open-minded.
But for that, you will need a partner coming from the other side.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: OK. A source from a U.S. ally familiar with the discussions, who has confirmed to CNN that there is an emphasis on economics and an
absence of a two-state element in this Kushner plan.
A lot of people who have -- you know, believed that they now get a sense of what this operational document is all about. Say, this is no more than
effectively a business plan. And the politics will come later. If that were the case, is that dead in the water from the outset? A business plan
as opposed to a political plan.
DANO: So, I think we have to be a little bit more patient. It will be revealed in a few weeks. So, we shouldn't run into speculations. I read a
lot of people speaking about what they think will be on the plan. Let's wait a few weeks and see what there is. But the original corporation I
think an important -- we think we should have more supports to the international community.
We believe in partnering with regional moderate Arab countries. And yes, we want to see economical development, and we want to see the people in
Gaza, and Judea, and Samaria having a better life. But in order to do that, we have to get rid from the terrorists. We have to have a
condemnation from the international community.
You cannot think about our solution and ignore the terrorism and the radicals who are unfortunately are very instrumental in our region.
ANDERSON: Sir, with that, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us.
DANON: Thank you very much, Becky. Thank you.
ANDERSON: Well, let's get you up to speed on some of the other stories that are on our radar right now.
In Thailand, the coronation of the new king kicked off three days of celebration. The grand parade through the streets of Bangkok on Saturday.
Here, he is seated upon an ornate gold throne being carried on the soldiers of -- the shoulders of soldiers wearing ceremonial uniforms while the
procession takes several hours to complete the loop back to the palace in - - let me tell you, sweltering heat.
Investigators in the U.S. are looking into what caused the military charted passenger plane to overshoot a runway, and skid into a Florida river. A
flight data recorder has been recovered, but the cockpit voice recorder is still in the plane everyone on board survived, although, a few suffered
minor injuries.
Well, Turkey has condemned an Israeli strike that hit its state news agency. Calling on the world to protect press freedom. But Turkey's own
track record on the issue raises questions of hypocrisy. We'll look at the case of one political cartoonist sitting in a Turkish jail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:47:17] ANDERSON: Well, you are looking at images of the rubble of the building that house Anadolu. Turkey condemned this Israeli airstrike that
hit its state news agency in Gaza. Now, the Turkish president spokesperson urged all governments that claim to defend press freedom.
To join us in condemning the Israeli government, well that statement could be read as somewhat hypocritical since Turkey jails more journalists in any
country in the world, like the man who drew these political cartoons. Mr. Kart is behind bars because even satire isn't safe from state census.
We've just marked Press Freedom Day on Friday, as Kart sit's in a Turkish prison. And too many journalists share his faith. I want to speak now to
Patrick Chappatte, who is a cartoonist whose work appears in the International New York Times and Der Spiegel amongst others. He co-founded
the Cartooning for Peace Foundation and has been campaigning on behalf of Musa Kart.
Turkey convicted Musa Kart, sir, for aiding a terror group headed up by U.S.-based cleric Fethullah Gulen. Turkey's president seeing him is, of
course, a march nemesis but Patrick, Kart has criticized Gulen, He, Kart depicts Gulen as climbing up a combat boot to illustrate his growing
influence in the military -- in the military. Do authorities ignore evidence that just doesn't fit their narrative?
PATRICK CHAPPATTE, CO-FOUNDER, CARTOONING FOR PEACE FOUNDATION: Of course, it's a ridiculous claim. Our friend, Musa Kart was jailed and sentenced to
what will amount to actually two years. It was first, three years and nine month in jail for exercising the art of satire in today's Turkey.
It's going to be two years, two full years in jail. And when you look at his cartoons, especially, the cartoon with Fethullah Gulen, who's he
climbing up this boot. He is trying to describe the growing influence of Fethullah Gulen on the military and the police.
So, talk about exculpatory evidence, talk about these cartoons speak for the man, they speak for his -- they speak on behalf of his innocence. The
proof is there that this man was -- who was doing -- you know cartooning, and picking on all sides. And he's been -- he's been now jailed on fake,
fake accusations.
ANDERSON: His story has garnered a lot of attention. In fact, you and I spoke about this in Davos at the beginning of the year. And this attention
is sense in large part to you and many fellow artists who are drawing for the free Musa Kart effort. We're seeing some of those cartoons, and
nowhere on the screen.
Is this attention and pressure? Do you think likely in any way to make a difference?
[11:50:17] CHAPPATTE: I'm not sure of that. You have to know that we are worried that Musa Kart with an international prize in May 2018. In which
we had just learned a week before that, that he had received his sentence.
He went to jail, and so, there was a lot of -- we tried many ways, many things, we tried to communicate, we tried discredit pressure. Kofi Annan,
that's not very well known. He was the honorary chair of the foundation. He wrote personally to Erdogan, pleading the case of Musa Kart. I can say
that today. With -- to no -- with no effect as we can see today. And so, he is now in jail, and we don't see -- I don't see what pressure we can
apply on Erdogan.
Well, you have met the guy, maybe next time you meet him. Ask him, what is it that terrorizing so much in you more? It seems that people of power, it
seems that the very match, or the very authoritative rulers have a very thin skin and little patience for humor.
ANDERSON: Well, I wonder if you feel the same way about the work -- though, your victims -- I was going to say. Those that you write about in
the U.S. as well. Your own work to the New York Times very much exemplifies political satire. Like this one related to one of our top
stories at North Korea.
Trump looking wistfully at the empty spot for a Nobel Peace Prize. Of this one with Trump praising his wall. Here made out of his fellow Republicans
in Congress as shielding him from oversight and let's bring that up as well. Are you ever afraid that free speech in the United States will be
curtailed?
CHAPPATTE: Yes, of course, I mean, the art of political satire today, it feels like figure skating on very thin ice. It is -- it is complicated.
It's complicated to be doing this art which is -- which is a form of freedom in today's world. There is more and more pressure people get
offended for anything and it is before all -- of course, with that great freedom, great exposure, as you mentioned, have been fortunate enough to be
working on the global stage first with the International Herald Tribune. Now, the New York Times. So, that's a great exposure, and with that comes
great responsibility.
But freedom and responsibility, they go hand in hand. We know that that's the world of the media. Political cartoons is not -- is not the art of
polite exchanges. It's about speaking truth to power, it's about -- you know, showing, saying that the emperor has no cloth.
And when you say, oh, when you draw, it's even worse, the Emperor without any clothes, you can offend some people. And in this day of social media,
what you are seeing is cartoons -- any cartoons will offend someone. Cartoons do offend people. That happens. It's not their first goal, but
it's a consequence that you don't control always what -- how people will react your cartoon.
In this day and age of social media, it's not the place for dialogue, people hate hard at you, they -- it comes from all over the place. And so,
you have those storms gathering on the -- on the publications, and it's hard to have a meaningful discourse in defense of that very important art.
ANDERSON: That's a fascinating perspective. Always a pleasure. Thank you, sir. Coming up next on CONNECT WORLD. Wet, muddy track at the
Kentucky Derby leads to a controversial finish the "most exciting two minutes in sports". That's a quote. The details from Churchill Downs,
right after this.
And what sort of investment could you make at a petrol station to get a return of say, a few million percent, and do it all in five minutes? Find
out just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:55:34] ANDERSON: Well, a million dollars isn't cool. Do you know what is cool? A million dollars coming like a bolt from the blue. Actually,
way more than a million two big surprise windfalls.
For you now first, the total prize money at this year's Kentucky Derby was raised to a whopping $3 million between the top five finishes since the
second time in 145 year history of the race. The horse that crossed the finish line first did not win.
Maximum security led the pack at wet and muddy Churchill Downs. But toward the end of the race, the horse and jockey, lay made an illegal move. The
second-place jockey Flavien Prat and two others filed a complaint with officials. And after a 20-minute review, Prat and his steed Country House
were declared the winners. It was the Kentucky Derby's first-ever victory by disqualification.
Now, another surprise wad of cash, we look at what difference a couple of weeks, and one little ticket can make just what weeks ago. Manuel Franco
only had $1,000 to his names. Well, now, he has $768 million to his name. He is the newest Powerball jackpot winner in the U.S. the odds of winning
one in 292 million. He spent $10 on lottery tickets at a Wisconsin petrol station. He said the chance to change your life is worth the money.
I'm Becky Anderson. That was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thank you for watching.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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