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Saudi Defense Ministry Spokesman Shows Attacks Could Not Have Been Launched from Yemen; Trump Orders Increased Sanctions on Iran; Saudi Analysis of Evidence Shows Iran was Behind Attack on Saudi Oil Facilities; Tehran Denies Attacking Saudi Oil Facilities; Netanyahu Accused of Running Racist Campaign; Arab Joint List Poised to Win Third Most Seats in Knesset; Palestinian Says I'm Not Included in Knesset Agenda; What's Next for Prime Minister Netanyahu. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired September 18, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So is it Iran?
COL. TURKI AL-MALIKI, SAUDI DEFENSE MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So is it Iran?
AL-MALIKI: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it Iran?
AL-MALIKI: Thank you. Will you please. I am controlling the press conference. Have a seat please.
MARK STONE, SKY NEWS: Thank you very much, Mark Stone from Sky News. With respect, this is quite an embarrassing display for the Saudi military
because it's quite clear that your air defenses failed incredibly badly that so many missiles and drones were able to penetrate deep into Saudi
Arabia. First of all, why did your air defenses fail? And secondly, what will the response of Saudi Arabia by to quite such a substantial attack?
AL-MALIKI: Thank you. We are pretty proud about our air defense. Our air defense has intercepted until now almost 232 ballistic missiles. There is
no country in the world been attacked with such amount of ballistic missile and no attack to any country with 258 UAV. Our air defenses with the
ability we have and our officers, NCOs and the community we have as air defense to locate as a tactical disposition on the ground. We save our
nation. We save our country. If you think they are (INAUDIBLE), we are very proud of our defense. I'm sure the Saudi nation, they are pretty
proud about our air defense.
The other question. Right now, we are working as I mentioned to determine the exact position of the launch point. Either that it launched from
Yemen, launched from somewhere else. Those people, they will be accountable and this is the decision of the political level in our country
and we are just a military tool. That's for the -- I cannot say exactly what's the decision would be taken and that level for a spokesman for the
ministry of defense.
STONE: But just to clarify, you did say that they definitely were not launched from Yemen, correct?
AL-MALIKI: Yes, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) from NRV TV. Colonel al-Maliki, I mean, it's obviously that the world is suffering from terrorism all around,
whether it's from wish of countries and governments. And you've asked for the international community to acknowledge and take action towards these
militias and the government which are attacking and provoking the area and all the world. What actions are you looking for? What actions are you
hoping for?
AL-MALIKI: Thank you so much. I do agree with you. We know the terrorist act, as your friend here, he asked before, the terror act just needed
tools. When terrorist act or terrorist group, they have conducted an attack in Europe, U.K., Spain, South Asia, United States, Saudi Arabia, it
doesn't mean there is a system had been failed. But those mind of ideology, they're trying to go from the system and to do such terrorist
attack to the civilians and they don't believe in (INAUDIBLE).
The threat that we are facing, all of us, as I mentioned in the beginning, not just for the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The Iranian regime, the lion
activity has been around in (INAUDIBLE) and also the Africa and they are working to support the terrorist group around the world. One of the things
that we're working -- will not allow such capability and we have seen the Iranian regime or the IRGC, have given such capability to the Houthi and
they are using it against the civilian people and the Saudi or the GCC.
I think it's their responsibility for the whole international community to stop Iran from the blind activity to put accountability on them from the
United Nations, the Security Council and that threat that's not just for Saudi but are attacking Saudi Arabia today. They are supporting other
terrorists' groups in Lebanon, in Syria, in Yemen and around the world. So it's their responsibility for the whole international community. Thank
you.
The last two questions, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir (INAUDIBLE).
AL-MALIKI: Would you please move close to the mic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, could I ask. You say you're trying to pinpoint exactly where these missiles were fired from. Do you believe in the end
you will find that they came from Iran itself and from Iranian soil?
AL-MALIKI: I believe that we will spot the launch point of this terrorist attack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that's most likely going to be Iran?
AL-MALIKI: I am sure we'll spot it.
[11:05:00]
And we are working and whoever is responsible about it, they will take that accountability.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a military way?
AL-MALIKI: Next question.
IAN LEE, CBS NEWS: Ian Lee from CBS news. My question for you is Secretary of State Pompeo is going to be visiting today. What do you want
to see from the Americans? What concrete steps would you like to see the Americans take to prevent something like this from happening again?
The other question is we've seen -- as you've shown, there's been what looks like hundreds of attacks, many attacks, yet Saudi hasn't responded
militarily to Iran. When is the breaking point? What is the red line for you where you feel like you'll be compelled to respond militarily?
AL-MALIKI: Thank you very much. Yes, of course, we do have a strong relationship with the United States in terms of military relationship that
we're working together to face the threat that we -- it's not just for the Saudi and for the international community. We're working together to
preserve the peace and stability in the region and to also secure our national security.
What we need, we are working together to share the information. In Saudi Arabia there are more than 54,000 American people that are living with us.
Of course, we are sharing such information with the Americans first. As I mentioned, this kind of information to save our people and the people that
are living here in Saudi Arabia and to know exactly the OTTB of the tactic procedure for the Iranian regime how they're using such weapons in a
terrorist attack.
It comes to the other question, it's not -- we are working right now to know the launch point. I think I mentioned it for you and for your
friends. That we are working to know exactly the launch point. And when we have it, we will have the evidence. And the decision is not at my
level.
LEE: If this is coming from Iran, though, that you say all this is Iranian backed, if it's not directly coming from Iran, it's Iranian backed. Do you
see this as -- do you see there being a need to go after Iran if Iran is going after you?
AL-MALIKI: I think they are now -- they figure out they have discovered that we have a common understanding about the threat that's coming from the
IOGC. It's our responsibility all of us to stop that Iran activity. And we are working together in that aspect. The decision I think not just for
the GCC country, but also for the allies because they are threatening them many time, and we know the act lately it's been conducted in the region.
Thank you.
I would like to thank you your excellencies, ladies and gentlemen for attending this brief. We are still working on the information as I
mentioned to determine exactly the launch point. And when we find the final launch point, that they are attacking Saudi Arabia. We will announce
this through a press conference. Thank you again.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: A lot to digest there. Let me get you the top lines on what we've just heard. Colonel Turki al-Maliki, Saudi Arabia's
defense ministry spokesman sharing the remnants of drones and missiles that it claims were used in attacks on the heart of its oil facilities. As, and
let me quote, undeniable evidence of Iranian aggression.
During the press conference, CNN just asked point blank was this Iran. Al- Maliki didn't directly blame the regime. John Defterios is in Jeddah. What we did hear that was it wasn't clear where the attacks originated
from. He said it could have been Iran, it could have been Iraq. So very specifically saying this is a result of Iranian aggression, pointing the
finger at the country. But not specifically saying that these missiles, these drones originated there, John. Significance.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNNMONEY EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: That's great point. In fact, it's a great point, Becky, he was being subtle with the response to
those questions, the more pointed questions and said they don't have the launch point yet. But it almost has the fingerprints of the Revolutionary
Guard and its influence over the Houthi rebels.
Sources were telling CNN earlier in the day before the press conference that they think the launch point is on the border of Iraq in the southwest
corner of Iran. But obviously, according to this press conference here that is not confirmed.
[11:10:00]
But this was an exhaustive 35-minute display by the Saudis trying to point the finger to the influence of Iran with 25 attempts on both the oil
processing facility and also the second largest oil field in Saudi Arabia at the same time. The unmanned aerial vehicle and also the cruise
missiles. They had the maps up there trying to be the tracking and also the remnants as you suggested. That point of sophistication, they suggest
of Iran. Now this is hard to make this a very concrete argument by the Saudis and why they say they'll have further evidence on the launch point.
And again, Becky, the theme I've been bringing up earlier in our coverage today, you hear the narrative from Saudi Arabia here saying this is not
just an attack on the kingdom of Saudi Arabia but an attack on the global community. Making a link to global oil supplies and the shock that we saw
over the weekend.
ANDERSON: So the question is, John, what happens next of course? The Secretary of State Pompeo has been in Jeddah today speaking to the
leadership there. We have heard from the French saying that they will wait to find out what the Saudis can indicate as far as this investigation goes.
The British apparently making a call to the Crown Prince yesterday offering full support.
It seems to suggest there's an effort here to get those members of the Security Council, the permanent members of the Security Council in line.
Of course, those five include Russia and China and we are yet to really get a sense from those other two as to how they might vote should the U.S. or
Saudi ask for permission for a military strike on Iran. That's very much a should moment.
What we do know is that Donald Trump has increased sanctions on the Iranian regime or the Iranian country as he pointed out. I'm going to get to
Tehran in just a moment for perspective and reaction from there. But given that we have been covering these sanctions now, these schwingen sanctions,
this effort on maximum pressure from the U.S. to hurt this administration. Is that the U.S. exhausting itself so far as its effort is concerned do you
think at this point?
DEFTERIOS: OK, let's cover the sanctions, Becky. I do think this is the White House trying to walk back from the original comments from Secretary
of State Pompeo here. He pointed the finger immediately to Iran. He's here in Jeddah now where I am. Having discussions about what the response
should be. President Trump is trigger happy when it comes to Twitter as you know. And is asking the Secretary of Treasury, Steven Mnuchin to go
ahead with another around of sanctions.
I think this will fall on deaf ears according to Iran itself. Because the people have been punished and we know the state of the economy. And
President Rouhani was even putting out a warning before this press conference again suggesting anybody who tests the grounds of Yemen have to
be prepared for retaliation. Suggesting does this international community really want to get involved.
And I would almost call it, Becky, the coalition of the willing. Because the Mohammad bin Salman, the Crown Prince, had a conference call both with
the Japanese leader, but also the South Korean President. And then the Crown Prince in terms of the statement that came out afterwards, says this
is the test of the will of the international community. Taking it in to the United Nations as to the lieutenant colonel al-Maliki.
So this is an effort by Saudi Arabia, they don't want to go add it alone. They had the defenses up that have been penetrated in a very, very large
way. So they're reaching out saying Iran's not only our problem and nor is Yemen. But, again, I've been talking about this earlier, there's a giant
elephant in the room. Saudi Arabia is still entrenched in Yemen and has been for years. And it's embroiled itself in the problem and is now
looking to the outside world for support.
ANDERSON: John's in Jeddah. Nic is in Riyadh. Nic Robertson, you have been inside that press conference. We heard you ask that first question.
Are you pointing the finger of blame effectively -- and I'm paraphrasing you here -- at Iran. The spokesman sidestepping that question somewhat.
Your analysis of what you've heard?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, Becky, just to broaden this out a little. Of course, not just journalists in the room,
probably you weren't able to see them off camera, but a lot of diplomats in here, ambassadors, military attaches. Indeed, they're what the people you
see behind me, not journalists. They're the ambassadors of various nations invited here so that they could get eyes on these components, seven drones,
two cruise missiles laid out there, a total of 25 fired.
[11:15:00]
But I think it was -- you know, what we clearly are hearing here is a presentation of the military evidence and this is what the ministry of
defense said that they'd do. They've done that. They put it in the public domain. Because the questions have been asking that.
I tried to ask a question that would explain for the layman, if you will, why you can draw these conclusions about the range of these missile and
drones. But the spokesman fell back on what is very common in military circles in the analysis of these weapons systems. Is that these are
commonly known as Iranian manufactured systems. So there's no sort of ambiguity about that. The range, of course, was significant saying it
couldn't come from Yemen.
I was particularly interested when I tried to find out how they're back tracking using what evidence to figure out where these cruise missiles, a
total of seven cruise missiles fired, a total of 18 drones sent in the direction of these facilities. And how they're trying to back track. And
he pointed to the GPS systems within the UAVs, the drones in particular to indicate that they're looking at the data in those GPSs.
Because that will provide a series, if you like, of data breadcrumbs to where the drones took off from. And interestingly he said, even while
they're doing this, the Iranians, he said, are trying to interfere with that process. Perhaps he didn't say specifically how, whether it's shut
down or scrubbed, the data that's on some of that GPS equipment. That is significant.
But very clearly, he stayed away from the big question here is this has all the hallmarks of Iran. He just laid it out. If it is Iran, was a launch
point or despite only being the fingerprints of Iran, what will you do? And he said, look, that is not a decision for me. That's a decision at a
political level.
But clearly, his job has been to provide the base analysis for that political decision making. And from what was displayed here, unequivocally
it appears backing up what has been said, that this was Iranian manufactured equipment and the reason they had so much of it to look at,
three of the cruise missiles actually fell short -- Becky.
ANDERSON: One interesting question that was asked of Turki al-Maliki, the defense -- the military spokesman there. How concerned are you, Saudi
Arabia, about the fact that your defenses failed? Effectively what has happened in these attacks has proved a sort of vulnerability of Saudi
Arabia, at least to its eastern flank. And that eastern flank, of course, opposite its arch foe, Iran. Didn't really have necessarily a decent
answer to that. Let's just look to roll back and work out exactly what he did say and how significant it is -- Nic.
ROBERTSON: You know, I think for everyone it's very stark when one of the drones appear was a drone that was used in an attack in May. And that was
-- when that is up there, an attack from three months ago, that the country would recognize that it was threatened by that type of device. The
indications back then in May that it was potentially flying from the north. That over three months they hadn't oriented defense systems to point in
that direction, hadn't adjusted defense systems so they could pick up drones like this. Because the seven others on the platform behind me were
exactly the same type. So that does point to be a gaping hole.
I don't think there's any doubt that Saudi Arabia is going to effort to catch up. They've put in the hugely expensive counter ICBM missile systems
to counter the huge missile that have been fired from Yemen that have targeted this city, to targeting Jeddah, targeted other cities, airports
around the country. So they'll reorient. But why are they taking so long? Why did they miss that cue back in May?
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is in Riyadh. John Defterios is in Jeddah. We are in Jerusalem. And we're going to take a very short break. Important
stuff, back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: In the last few minutes, Colonel Turki al-Maliki, the Saudi defense ministry spokesman there showing the remnants of drones and
missiles that it claims were used in attacks at the heart of its oil facilities. As -- and let me quote -- undeniable evidence of Iranian
aggression. Well during the press conference CNN just asked point blank was this Iran. Now al-Maliki didn't directly blame the regime. This is
part of the slow drip of blame. Let's go to CNN's senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, who is in Tehran. What's reaction there,
Nick?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They've not reacted to this specific allegations. And frankly, I think many Iranian officials
would not see too much there that they have to answer. It doesn't provide direct indications that the missiles or drones were launched from Iranian
territory. Which has been the, quote, high probability suggested by some other sources that Nic in Riyadh has been speaking to. And there's no
physical evidence necessarily to make that link.
So while they presented a large amount of damaged hardware to journalists there, I'll go on to sort of suggest that probably there's nothing
massively new within that that Tehran would think they need to step forward and counter.
To add that as well, you said yourself, when Nic Robertson directly asked them was this Iran, they stepped back from that. So Iran has consistently
said that this is not them. And they have actually also said that the Houthi rebels in Yemen are capable of launching such an attack. And the
Houthis as you know have claimed responsibility.
Now, Yes, the Saudis they were very clear that this did not come from the direction of Yemen. But they also weren't able to clear up exactly where
they thought it was launched from. While there appears to be a growing body of evidence from the actual places that were attacked, we are still
sort of short of asking Iranian officials from watching that press conference. I'm sure they wouldn't necessarily feel that it moved the
needle that much on the terms of U.S. claims of their culpability.
As recently as today we heard Iranian President Hassan Rouhani talking about how this could well have been a response from Yemen a warning from
Yemen -- to the Saudis about the war. We've heard the Iranian foreign minister, Javid Zarif, saying the only way to stop this is through peace in
Yemen. Iran very much casting this in their view as being about the war in Yemen.
I mean, frankly, a lot of European nations that would normally be friendly towards Saudi Arabia have raised doubts about the conduct of the war in
Yemen. The Saudi area of bombardment there has caused many civilian lives to be lost and is contributing to a substantial humanitarian crisis.
Startling, Becky, I think to observe that long awaited presentation of the evidence. Yes, there actually are physical things there for people to look
at. But there is still that inability it seems for Saudi officials or U.S. officials, too, to pinpoint precisely where they know the drones and the
missiles were launched from. They think they originated from, possibly were prepared in Iran. That's what they be been saying, that's what Iran
denies. But we haven't had that categoric statement yet. So to some degree, not about squid but some missing information certainly from Riyadh
-- Becky.
ANDERSON: Nick Robertson is in Tehran where it is 7:54 in the evening, 6:24 here in Israel.
[11:25:00]
Do stay with us as we continue to digest the news of the day and take a look at what has been this historic Israeli election. That after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you a tie, it means there's going to be a lot of bargaining back and forth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They think maybe we'll go for a third time for this election.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very confused. I don't know what will be in the future.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody knows. Wait, one day, two days and we know a little bit more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: While the last votes of the Israel elections are still being counted with the political fate of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu still far from clear, his ruling Likud party is seemingly deadlocked with the centrist Blue and White party of Benny Gantz.
And that means some very difficult coalition talks lie ahead. Mr. Netanyahu now canceling his upcoming trip to the United Nations General
Assembly next week where he was expected to meet with U.S. President Donald Trump.
Here are the final projections from major Israeli TV stations. As you can see no party won the 61 Knesset seats needed to form a government on its
own. In fact, far from it. So that's where the horse trading comes in folks. Mr. Netanyahu and Benny Gantz each have allies that would join
their coalition. But according to these predictions, they still wouldn't reach the governing threshold and would have to seek out other partners.
And that's where this man comes in. Avigdor Liberman is the wildcard and possible kingmaker. His secular party could tip the scales, depending on
who's willing to accept his demands. Meantime, one group that's done well this election is the predominantly Arab Joint List. Exit polls predicting
that they would form the third largest party in the Parliament. This coming after a campaign that has been widely criticized as racist. Have a
listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The Palestinian authority published an official announcement. And I quote, go
out to vote to topple Netanyahu. Do you want to prevent a left-wing government and a coalition with the Arab parties? You do not want it. So
go vote. Go vote Likud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That's the Israeli Prime Minister on the eve of the election, warning Arabs could try to steal a vote.
[11:30:00]
And a post on his Facebook messaging service that Arabs, quote, would want to annihilate us. Mr. Netanyahu said he did not authorize that.
But the scare tactics are part and parcel of his strategy his critics say. Portraying the two million or so Arab citizens as enemies of the state.
Despite that, this election has seen a high turnout by Arab voters. I sat down with an activist, Shaindy Ort and Adnan Jaber, who's an entrepreneur
living in east Jerusalem to get their thoughts on what was behind that surge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHAINDY ORT, ISRAELI STUDENT ACTIVIST: The environment in Israel in general with so much hatred and so much racism and the fact that the Joint
List unified and created a very, very clear statement that in this election, it's a fight for life. And it doesn't matter what your specific
views are. But if you are against occupation, if you're against racism, you believe in equality, democracy and justice, you're going to vote for
the Joint List.
ANDERSON: You live in Jerusalem. You both live in Jerusalem. And yet you can't vote. Why?
ADNAN JABER, PALESTINIAN ENTREPRENEUR: Because I'm a resident, I'm not a citizen. I don't have any passport. I have a document. It's red color.
It's called Israel travel document. I need a visa to go anywhere. I can't vote for the Israeli government, for the Knesset.
ORT: I think the apartheid reality that you're describing, I think this is why people who could vote went out and voted. Because I think a lot of
people, including myself who Israel is not a democracy. There's no democracy here when millions of people who live under Israeli control can't
vote. That's not a democracy. And yesterday was not a celebration of democracy. And with that, there still is a limited amount of people that
do have the right of vote. And those of us who are voting and are trying to vote with the people like you and mind, hoping that one day there will
be a democracy and that one day we can both --
ANDERSON: How do you feel about that? Will there be democracy here one day for you, Adnan?
JABER: I don't know how much time will it take to have this. And who will force the democracy? Is it going to be Palestine? Are you going to have
the democracy for me in Israel? So is it going to be Israel that's going to give me democracy in East Jerusalem. I still don't know.
ANDERSON: Adnan, do you feel valued by members of the Knesset who are Arabs?
JABER: I think that I'm not included in their agenda. I don't know hear much about me. And I can't do anything about this. It's just -- with the
plan of jeopardizing Jerusalem. I feel also my identity as a Palestinian in Jerusalem is also like demolishing slowly and is wiped out slowly.
ORT: The current situation that you're describing, it's worse than I could ever imagine. I grew up in the United States. I live here in Israel
today. And the things that me and my -- and all the activists and obviously the Palestinians activists that we are working with and see every
day are things I don't think most people sitting at home in the United States have any idea are happening in Jerusalem.
ANDERSON: How optimistic are you that things will change here?
JABER: I'm a hopeful person. I want to make an impact. And I'm not waiting for any government to support me or stop me. I want to work
towards improving people's lives and that's what I'm going to keep on doing. As a Palestinian in Jerusalem, I had to go through checkpoints
every day to go study, for example, in Bar-Ilan University. I had to cross checkpoints every day. I struggled. But I want to achieve something. I
want to change the status quo. That's how I live now and that's what I want to do.
ORT: And one thing I think you can learn from the Joint List in terms of a future, in terms of optimism and the future reality that's better for all
of us -- and I think that the one thing that the Joint List does, that it dismantled the entire structure that the current state of Israel relies on.
And that is the division between Arabs and Jews and even amongst different groups of Arabs and Jews constantly trying to insight hatred between
people. Once you dismantle the idea that somehow there has to be a conflict in this land, I think that's like my only hope that actually one
day get into a more peaceful and more fair future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[11:35:00]
Shaindy and Adnan speaking to me earlier. We're on the ground connecting you to the Israeli elections and everything that goes with that. If you
want to catch up on all our special coverage, do head to CNN.com/connect where you can find our latest interviews and analysis. That is
CNN.com/connect.
We are live from Jerusalem. You're watching a special edition of CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for you. We're going to be right back after
this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: You're back with us in Jerusalem and for those of you just joining us you're more than welcome.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's grip on power hanging in the balance after a long history, of course, leading Israel. He has managed to deliver
four terms as Prime Minister. But now with this second general election in just six months, his legacy and political dynasty going forward, well that
is unclear. Joining me now is someone who has written the book on Bibi, Anshel Pfeffer. Authored a biography of Mr. Netanyahu and is a journalist
with Ha'aretz. and sir, thank you for joining us.
Neck and neck, too close to call. All the old cliches in Israeli politics. But this is an election 2.0 this year and those stand. When we saw
Benjamin Netanyahu make his speech to his supporters last night, it was around about 4:00 in the morning, certainly wasn't a concession speech by
any stretch of the imagination and nor did he need to make a concession speech. But when you look at him -- you know this guy well. What did you
think?
ANSHEL PFEFFER, JOURNALIST AT HA'ARETZ: Well you saw there was no other jovial bluster that he likes to use when he's making a real victory. We're
Seeing victory speeches at 3:00, 4:00 a.m., this was not a concession speech, it certainly wasn't a victory speech. You talk about the cliches
of the deadlock. The cliche that we usually use in an Israeli election is Bibi the magician. Netanyahu delivering an almost improbable victory
against all the odds, against the polls, confounding the pollsters. And last night the pollsters were all right. He had lost, he had failed to
deliver the majority he needed. He had basically called an election for no reason because he did not have a majority before the election. Now nor
does he still not have a majority. He's lost five more seats.
ANDERSON: Yes, he's lost seats. At this point we still don't know whether in the end he's going to be asked to form a coalition. And that horse
trading going on as we speak. You are quoted as saying this is the first time in ten years, we are seeing signed that Mr. Netanyahu is breaking.
What signs are you seeing to indicate that? And what's your view that that we're seeing -- are we seeing -- are we likely to see should these results
improve for him? Or should this horse trading prove a defiance wants again?
PFEFFER: He's already him defiant. He's already gathered the remaining -- because not all the right-wing and religious parties are loyal to him. But
he's gathered his remaining loyalists today. He's agreed with them on one bloc which will negotiate together with Benny Gantz. Now this is just a
gesture. One assumes that they're all making phone calls separately and individually. They've all spoken to him. At least out in the public, the
bloc, which is now a minority bloc, is sticking together. And that for Netanyahu is an important thing.
[11:40:00]
ANDERSON: What's he going through at this point?
PFEFFER: He cannot believe that he has to relink relinquish power. Not even just to relinquish power but be able to share power. For over a
decade he has reigned supreme. Yes, he's had coalition partners. He's had to give them ministries. But he has been in charge of the general
direction of the government on the main things.
ANDERSON: Tell us one thing that our viewers won't know about Benjamin Netanyahu.
PFEFFER: He's afraid to use force. He's careful in using force. The feeling -- the image of Netanyahu is some warmongering thug is a very
misleading image. If you look at Netanyahu's record over the 13 years in total that he's been Prime Minister, he's launched less wars, less major
military campaigns on an average year than any other Israeli Prime Minister. He has the lowest average casualty rate of any Israeli Prime
Minister.
ANDERSON: If it was more sensible for the Likud party to withdraw their support for Benjamin Netanyahu as Likud leader and asked him to step down
so that that improved their chances of running a government going forward, how would he feel and who would tell him?
PFEFFER: The Likud has never done that before. We're talking about a movement, a political movement which began as a re revisionist Zionism 96
years ago. Basically the right-wing of the Zionist movement. In all those 96 years it's only had five leaders. Netanyahu is the fifth leader.
That's an incredible longevity in power. And no leader has ever been kicked out by the membership. They've always remained loyal to their
leaders. I don't think Netanyahu of being the first leader to be kicked out.
ANDERSON: Is he racist?
PFEFFER: He uses racism. As far as I'm concerned, it's the same thing.
ANDERSON: Thank you, sir. Anshel Pfeffer.
Well that does it from us and our time here in Jerusalem. It's been an awful lot to take in over the past, what, 36 hours or so. And I want to
tie it together with what's just over my shoulder here. Vast stone walls looming large, protecting the old city of Jerusalem for some 500 years. A
very clear message, security matters in this neighborhood. And we've seen it does, this hour with the situation behind Iran and Saudi Arabia putting
everyone on edge. And Israel at large, not walls, but voters keeping politicians out. Out of the Prime Minister's office that is.
So it's goodbye from us, but what sure feels like a welcome to yesterday, the political front even after election 2.0. We will be following that in
the days ahead. From the team here, it is a very good evening.
[11:45:00]
(WORLD SPORT)
[12:00:00]
END
