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Transcript Shows Trump Pushed Ukraine to Investigate Biden; U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson to Address Parliament; Iranian President to Speak at U.N. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired September 25, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Bill Barr, who pushed for this letter and this transcript he put out.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Kaitlan. Great reporting.
Thank you all for being with me. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Jim and I will see you in D.C. for special coverage tomorrow morning. My colleague,
Kate Bolduan, continues our special coverage right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Breaking this hour, it's all about this document. Five pages showing the American president pushed a foreign
leader to investigate a rival at home.
Welcome, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for you in Abu Dhabi.
In just the last few minutes, the U.S. president has said he's done nothing wrong. This as the Democrats' call for impeachment grows louder. And
Donald Trump plays his latest hand, hoping that the release of this transcript of this July phone call with Ukraine's president will quiet
criticism that what he said in that call was for political gain.
That could prove difficult. The transcript released last hour reveals Mr. Trump pushed his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate Democratic
presidential front-runner Joe Biden.
We've also learned the U.S. intelligence inspector general, a Trump appointee, referred a criminal complaint about that phone call to the U.S.
attorney general. It sought to investigate the possibility that President Trump's request to information about Biden may have broken campaign finance
laws.
The attorney general has declined to investigate. Now all of this coming on the heels of the announcement yesterday, of course, by House Speaker
Nancy Pelosi. The Democrats are going to launch a formal impeachment inquiry against the U.S. president.
We've got reporters and analysts lined up to help us cover this story. It's an incredibly important one. CNN's politics congressional reporter
Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill. Our White House reporter Steven Collinson is in New York as is CNN legal analyst Elie Honig.
And presidential historian Adam Lichtman is in our Washington bureau.
Lauren, let's start with you.
What specifically do we know this hour from this transcript?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what Democrats are saying is that this transcript shows that there was interference from
the president, asking a foreign leader for a favor and that that is very clear.
Meanwhile Republicans are arguing, look, there's nothing to see here. This is the same partisan divide we saw after the Mueller report. It's the same
partisan divide you can expect to see in the weeks and months to come.
As Democrats have launched this formal impeachment inquiry with six committee chairmen looking into what the president has done. And at the
end of all this it's the Judiciary Committee that will decide what the Articles of Impeachment say. It will go through their committee.
But of course, a big blockbuster -- I'll tell you, this morning, a lot of moderate Democrats who are on the front lines for reelection, were telling
me they were nervous about the fact that Pelosi came out and supported an impeachment inquiry yesterday before we had the official transcript.
I'll be following up with them later today to see if this transcript really makes them feel a lot more comfortable about where the Speaker is taking
the Democratic Party.
ANDERSON: Stephen, walk me through specifically what this says and why it is in play at this point?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a part of the conversation where the president is talking to the Ukrainian president, who is talking
about he's very grateful for U.S. aid and he plans to spend a lot of money on U.S. military weapons and such and so forth.
At that moment, the president says, well, I need to ask you a favor. Then he goes into this question of his claims that there was corruption in the
Ukraine involving Vice President Biden and his son. He says he wants the Ukrainian president to talk to William Barr and his personal lawyer, Rudy
Giuliani, who has been going around calling for an investigation in Ukraine into Joe Biden.
So I don't know how you can look at that objectively and say that this is not pressure on a foreign leader to investigate one of Donald Trump's
political opponents. The president says that isn't the case.
Republicans are going to highlight the fact that the president didn't say, I won't give you military aid unless you investigate Joe Biden. And that
is going to be the turning point of this whole impeachment argument.
We've heard them already saying, there's no quid quo pro. But I don't see how you can look at this transcript and believe that there wasn't pressure,
at least implied pressure by the president.
[11:05:00]
COLLINSON: That would seem to be a fairly clear cut abuse of power.
ANDERSON: Let's have a look at what this transcript says, specifically, in part, Donald Trump on the call saying -- and let me quote -- "I would like
you to do us a favor, though, because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it."
Elie, the president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, says no quid quo pro. Nothing to see here.
Is he right?
How does this formal impeachment inquiry work at this point?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He's wrong in several respects.
First of all, you don't need a quid quo pro stated explicitly in order for it to be a crime.
Second of all, if you look at this transcript, I think we're pretty darn close to a stated quid pro quo. I was a prosecutor for 14 years, I did
bribery cases, extortion cases. If I got this transcript as a prosecutor, I'd say, wow, they're being so open about it. Let's remember what precedes
this.
Stephen laid out the transcript really effectively. But shortly before this, the president had ordered his chief of staff to withhold $450 million
in foreign aid to Ukraine. So I think we're awfully close to a quid pro quo here. And again, you do not need a crime in order to impeach.
The broader question is, is there an abuse of power?
As to your second question, how is this going to work procedurally, Nancy Pelosi said each of the six major committees is going to continue
investigating. They'll essentially funnel their recommendations into the House Judiciary Committee, which will then recommend to the full House
potential Articles of Impeachment and then we'll see, I believe, a vote of the full House on those Articles of Impeachment.
ANDERSON: Stephen, CNN has learned there is a small faction within the Democratic Party that believes Nancy Pelosi should have waited before
announcing the impeachment inquiry.
To quote one, "Now our caucus is way out on this impeachment limb," is the way one person described it.
Now that we've seen this transcript, are they right?
COLLINSON: I think the limb is a lot stronger, actually having read this transcript. A lot of Democrats are worried there wouldn't be sufficient
evidence of wrongdoing by the president and maybe the Democrats, by coming out so strongly in favor of an impeachment inquiry yesterday, had jumped
the gun a little bit.
And I think we should remember that it's not just about this transcript. There's this whistleblower complaint that the administration tried to stop
being sent to Congress. It says it will now allow that to happen.
That's probably a much broader look at what was going on in the White House. And it's much more than just a single call with the Ukrainian
president. That may end up being even more important to what went on than this phone call.
But I think Democrats will be feeling a lot better already; some Democratic presidential candidates are coming out and saying this is a smoking gun.
They're trying to set the narrative around impeachment, which is a political process.
Even at the same time as you have people like senator Lindsey Graham saying you'd be insane to impeach the president over a phone call. The
Republicans are trying to make it a technical argument about language in the phone call. And that's the best argument they have, it seems. But I
think Democrats will be feeling a lot better this morning after having read this.
ANDERSON: We're starting to hear that familiar catchphrase from the president that he used throughout the Mueller investigation. Have a listen
to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think it's ridiculous. It's a witch hunt. I'm leading in the polls. They have no idea how they stop me. The only way they can is
through impeachment. This has never happened to a president before. There's never been a thing like this before. It's nonsense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: He said the exact same thing just moments ago.
What do you make of that?
COLLINSON: Well, this is the familiar tactic by the president he used throughout the Russia inquiry. This is no longer about what happened.
It's about shaping the political terrain around the impeachment process.
The president is giving his supporters in conservative media something to rally around. He's giving some cover to Republican senators, who
eventually might be asked to vote whether to acquit or convict him in an impeachment trial in the Senate. This is all about, you know, shoring up
Republican support.
So far, even some moderate Republicans have said there's nothing to see here. But this would change over the months. We don't know how this is
going to play.
ANDERSON: Let me bring up one of the other parts of this transcript of this call I do think is interesting. It says, the other thing, there's a
lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution.
[11:10:00]
ANDERSON: A lot of people want to find out about that. So whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great. Biden went around
bragging. He's talking about Joe Biden's son here, Hunter Biden, that he stopped the prosecution. So if you can look into it, dot dot dot, it
sounds horrible to me, is what comes out of this call.
What do you make of that?
When we're talking this impeachment inquiry, were he to be impeached, what might that be for?
HONIG: Sure.
ANDERSON: Given what we've seen from this transcript.
HONIG: Yes, the passage you just read, Becky, drives home to me the fact that this phone call is about one thing and one thing only. Donald Trump
gets on this phone with the Ukrainian president because he wants dirt on his political opponents.
Joe Biden and, even though she's in the past for Donald Trump, he still can't get over Hillary Clinton. That's it. There's not even a pretext of
talking about some of the other things he said he has been talking about.
Oh, I'm concerned about corruption in general in Ukraine.
No. These are the only issues that he actually talks about on the call. There's one reason for this call.
Now what might the House impeach Donald Trump for?
It's really up to them. They have very broad latitude. They can name specific federal crimes. I think there's a strong case, based on what we
see here -- and there are other facts -- for bribery, for extortion and for receipt of foreign election aid. You don't need a quid quo pro; as long as
a politician in the United States is trying to get foreign election assistance, that in itself is a crime.
Also, the Articles of Impeachment could be framed as abuse of power. They don't need to state a specific federal crime. I want to make sure everyone
understands, though, even after the president is impeached, if he's impeached by a majority in the House, it then has to go to the Senate,
which needs a two-thirds majority vote to convict and remove him.
That's an entirely separate political calculus.
ANDERSON: Many experts pointing that out.
Allan, let me bring you in here. Only two U.S. presidents have ever been impeached. The first president was impeached Andrew Johnson in 1868 just
after the Civil War. He was impeached by the House but narrowly acquitted in the Senate and remained in office.
Richard Nixon was headed to certain impeachment following Watergate but he resigned in 1974 before that could happen.
The House did impeach Bill Clinton in 1998 after he lied under oath about an extramarital affair but the Senate acquitted him as well.
So to Elie's point, considering what we've heard from our distinguished panel, what can we learn from those cases?
And how do you see this case building?
ALLAN LICHTMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: What we can learn from those cases is regardless of what the Senate may ultimately do, impeachment is a very
grave indictment of a president unto itself and a Senate trial is incredibly important, particularly in this case.
The Bill Clinton trial involved a private, consensual affair. Here you're talking about threats to our democracy and our national security.
So what would happen if the Senate held a trial?
Well, the House could appoint prosecutors who could call witnesses, present documents, bring up opening and closing statements, cross-examine the
president's witnesses.
And the president would have to come up with real defenses, not just Rudy Giuliani-type television spin. Mitch McConnell could try to rally the
Republicans behind him and summarily dismiss the charges without a trial. I'm not sure he could get 51 Republicans to go along with that.
But even if he does, that would leave all the charges hanging unrefuted and would suggest a further cover-up on the part of Republicans. So regardless
of what happens in the Senate, the consequences are severe.
And every president who has been impeached -- or like Nixon resigned in the face of impeachment -- paid a heavy price. Andrew Johnson in 1868, his
political career was ruined. He had to moderate his opposition to Reconstruction.
We know following Watergate, the Democrats won in 1976. And following the impeachment of Bill Clinton -- and everybody gets this wrong --
Republicans, sure, lost a couple of House seats but the impeachment gave them the biggest prize, the presidential election of 2000, election that
the Democrats easily would otherwise have won without the cloud of scandal hanging over them.
ANDERSON: As I listen to what you're saying, this is fascinating stuff.
[11:15:00]
ANDERSON: I want to get back to the document of the hour. This is the unclassified transcript of the call that Donald Trump held recently with
the Ukrainian president. Let me tell you what the Ukrainian president told Donald Trump in part of that call.
He said, and I quote, "Since we have won the absolute majority in our parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100 percent my person, my
candidate, who will be approved by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September.
"He or she will look into the situation" -- with regard to Biden -- "specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue."
Again, Stephen, just explain why that part of the conversation is important.
COLLINSON: You know, it's kind of difficult to tell just reading that whether the president of Ukraine was trying to appease President Trump or
whether he was agreeing to act on the president's requests.
The presence of both, by through a quirk of fate, expected to meet today on the sidelines of the UNGA in New York. It will be interesting to see when
President Zelensky is asked by reporters exactly what he took away from the call.
He's the president of a small country under a great deal of duress that really needs its friends in the West and in Europe and the United States.
So he's in a very, very difficult political position himself.
That's one of the reasons why a lot of people in Washington have faulted the president's behavior, that he would put the power of the United States
on the table just to get political favors for himself in a way that not just harms Ukraine's security but, if you sort of extrapolate it a few
steps, could be seen to harm the security of the West indirectly as well.
That's why some people are also saying this is an abuse of presidential power. So that photo-op is going to be very, very instructive to see the
kind of position that Ukraine finds itself in.
ANDERSON: The U.S. president meeting the president of Ukraine three hours from now. You can see that here on CNN.
Lauren, let me come back to you. There are Democrats who think pursuing impeachment could backfire on their party, a view also shared by well-known
conservative writer and blogger. Have a look at this tweet from Ben Domenech, the co-founder of the right-wing website "The Federalist."
He says impeachment "polls terribly" and believes that president actually wants to be impeached, knowing there appears to be no chance he'd be
removed from office. He surmises Mr. Trump will use impeachment against Democrats in the 2020 campaign.
Likely?
FOX: Well, I think, you know, this has been the debate within the Democratic Party. It's easy to forget, because of the events of the last
24 hours, that a week ago Democrats were not here. You heard that exact argument from many moderate Democrats.
Look, the president may be trying to get us to move forward with impeachment because it could help him in the presidential election. The
facts are now Democrats are going down that road.
Is there still a concern that there could be a cost?
Of course. A lot of moderates and Democrat frontliners I'm talking to are saying, at some point, you have to look at what's best for the country. If
this is an issue of national security, we need to act, regardless of what the electoral repercussions would be.
So that's where a lot of Democrats are at this point. But of course, it's hard to know where we're going to be a year from now given the fact that I
couldn't have told you we'd be in this moment a week ago -- Becky.
ANDERSON: To all of you on the panel, thank you so much for joining us.
Well for Democrats, and this is what we have been discussing, an impeachment investigation with a focus on Ukraine could hurt their chances
of taking back the White House in 2020.
An opinion writer in "The Washington Post" writing, "Such an investigation will be far more damaging for Joe Biden than the president. It will keep
the story of Biden's conflict of interest in the news through the 2020 election.
"Senate Republicans can demand that Hunter Biden testify and subpoena Obama White House aides to explain under oath what the vice president knew and
when he knew it."
A lot more on this story this hour, bottom of the hour, 10 minutes from now. I want to move on at this point to constitutional mayhem on the other
side of the Atlantic as well.
[11:20:00]
ANDERSON: Boris Johnson will soon address the British Parliament for the first time since the nation's Supreme Court ruled that the prime minister's
suspension of it was unlawful.
Plus, Iran's president is speaking at the United Nations General Assembly just a short time after America's top diplomat called him a flat-out liar.
We're live there as President Rouhani speaks -- up next.
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ANDERSON: To a constitutional crisis of a very British kind. Parliament back in session right now, just two days after the U.K.'s Supreme Court
ruled that the government's decision to suspend it for five weeks was unlawful.
The prime minister then jetting back to London overnight, having to cut short his visit to the United Nations General Assembly. We'll hear what he
has to say about all of that when he addresses MPs shortly.
You're watching live pictures of the half-full chamber once again, as if there wasn't enough for these lawmakers to be back in London for.
And if early proceedings are anything to go by, Mr. Johnson can expect a very hostile reception. Lawmakers have been grilling the attorney general
today on how the government made the decision to suspend or prorogue Parliament in the first place. His response?
Colorful.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEOFFREY COX, U.K. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Twice they have been asked to let the electorate decide upon whether they should continue to sit in their seats
while they block 17.4 million people's vote.
This Parliament is a disgrace. Given the opportunity, given, since I'm asked, let me tell them the truth. They could vote no confidence at any
time. But they're too cowardly.
[11:25:00]
COX: They could agree to a motion to allow this house to dissolve but they're too cowardly.
This Parliament should have the courage to face the electorate but it won't. It won't because so many of them are really all about preventing us
leaving the European Union. But the time is coming, the time is coming, Mr. Speaker, when even these turkeys won't be able to prevent Christmas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Haven't we all missed that sort of performance while Parliament is being suspended?
Melissa Bell joins us from right by all that political action just outside the U.K. Houses of Parliament and CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic
Robertson in is New York.
Melissa, a lively chamber. That was Geoffrey Cox, the attorney general. Explain what that was all about.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In a sense, what Geoffrey Cox gave us during the answers to urgent questions, which was the first set of things
that happened this morning when MPs got back to work as a result of the Supreme Court decision, what his tone does is give us an idea of what we
can expect when Boris Johnson comes to the House of Commons to address MPs.
We have yet to hear from the foreign secretary, who is going to make a statement from Iran. After that we'll hear from the prime minister as
we've been awaiting impatiently all day. It's a word that he has to say that's the most important at this stage.
Geoffrey Cox, by goading parliamentarians, telling them they were too weak to take on a general election and later on in that session letting slip
that a motion might well be tabled calling for a general election, gives us an idea of what we're likely to hear from the prime minister.
First of all an unrepentive tone. That's what we've heard from him so far before cutting short his trip. Then if he does confirm a motion is to be
put to the house, it's likely to be a motion that allows for a general election to be called in October.
The last two times he tried to call for a general election, MPs voted against because he hadn't specified a date. The fear was that would take
us beyond the October deadline. the U.K. would come crashing out of the E.U., which a majority of parliamentarians want to avoid.
If the government put forward a motion to call for a general election, it's still unlikely, let's be clear, that the numbers will stack up in favor of
that because, from the moment you call an election to the moment it's held, there's a minimum of 25 days, we're too close to the October deadline to
imagine that MPs would go for an option that would take us so close to the wire.
On the other side what we're hearing is MPs, like Liberal Democrats, are looking how they might bring forward legislation that would force the PM to
commit to asking for an extension earlier than the one they called for already.
Just before Parliament was prorogued, those majority MPs who wanted to avoid the U.K. crashing out, managed to get through a piece of information
that ties Boris Johnson to ask for an extension on October 19th.
The word is some form of legislation might be attempted that would require him to do that before in order to test whether or not he's going to obey
the law. All eyes very much today on what the prime minister has to say but also on what the opposition are planning to do to try and force his
hand further -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Right. We're going to hear from Boris Johnson in the next hour or so. He is, as we said, back in the U.K. from New York.
Nic, that's where you are. As one of our colleagues online points out, this all may make great television but the simple fact, as Melissa was
pointing out, is that only one thing or one date matters in Britain right now. That is Brexit and when Britain pulls out of the E.U.
The second big question is whether Boris Johnson will survive at this point -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Boris Johnson, if he doesn't survive, is going to fail to survive on his own terms. That's
going to be that he's going to deliver Brexit on the 31st of October, do or die, rather be dead in a ditch than to ask the E.U. for an extension as is
mandated by law.
[11:30:00]
ROBERTSON: What we're going to see is Boris Johnson fight, fight, fight, fight, fight to the very end. And if the end is leaving the European
Union, then that is a success for him and the Conservative Party.
If he doesn't, he'll -- his legacy will be, it was everyone, it was Parliament that stopped him. It was Parliament that stopped the will of
the people.
He was trying to get through the will of the people. And it does appear that he's willing to make every political sacrifice possible to achieve
that. That is the direction it's going in. That's what we understand it's going to do.
I think what we see from Geoffrey Cox this morning, absolutely a foretaste of the anger, the vitriol and the tempers yet to come. Remembering
Geoffrey Cox is the one that gave Boris Johnson the advice that the proroguing was legal. He, of course, is on a stage playing for his boss,
playing to keep his job. He's going to be a defender of the faith and he did that today.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is in New York. Melissa Bell in London, terrific. More of our breaking news out of Washington.
Up next, the U.S. president pushing back on calls for his impeachment. He's striking back with a transcript, which I have here in front of me,
which he says vindicates him. We have the latest on that right after this. Stay with us.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
ANDERSON: And the breaking news for you this hour, Donald Trump once again insisting there was no pressure whatsoever in a now infamous call in July
with Ukraine's president.
[11:35:00]
ANDERSON: On the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly just a short time ago, he told reporters the launching of an impeachment inquiry over that
call, quote, "the single greatest witch hunt in American history."
But a new White House phone transcript shows the U.S. president did push that foreign government to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden, and
his son. Mr. Trump, however, has consistently defended the conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, was largely corrupt in all of the corruption taking place, was largely the fact that we
don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating the corruption already in the Ukraine.
If you don't talk about corruption, why would you give money to a country that you think is corrupt?
It's very important that on occasion you speak to somebody about corruption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, we are this hour able to give you a look inside that call. Let me show you how Donald Trump was talking to the Ukrainian president.
Quote, "A lot of the European countries are the same way. So I think it's something you want to look at. But the United States has been very, very
good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very,
very good to Ukraine."
There are lots of strands here. Let's connect all of this together. CNN's Stephen Collinson, good friend of the show, live for us in New York where
Mr. Trump is.
First, though, Matthew Chance joins us from Kiev, the capital of Ukraine.
Donald Trump says the transcript of this call, which I have here in my hand, vindicates him. No quid quo pro, nothing to see here. No pressure.
What's the perspective there, Matthew?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, since this transcript has been made public, there's been no comment at all
from any Ukrainian officials. They're not responding to our texts, they haven't made public statements as far as I'm aware.
I know Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, on his way to make his speech earlier today at the U.N. General Assembly, was ambushed by
journalists and he said, look, there was no pressure. You can't pressurize me because I'm the president of an independent country.
So from that remark, we can see that the Ukrainian leadership is also saying there was no pressure involved in this.
But I mean, the transcript, you know, speaks for itself in the sense that clearly there was an appeal made, an urging made by President Trump for the
Ukrainians to reopen an investigation that had been shut down some years before and to open an investigation into the conduct of Joe Biden when he
was vice president.
The suggestion being that he improperly called on the Ukrainians at that time to stop investigating a company that his son, Hunter Biden, was
working for. Earlier I spoke to the former Ukrainian foreign minister. He was the foreign minister at the time when this Biden episode happened.
I asked him whether he felt the vice president had done anything wrong. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLO KLIMKIN, FORMER UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: The former vice president Biden raised indeed a number of times as a problem of corruption,
(INAUDIBLE) corruption in Ukraine. But not naming specifically someone. So it should have been done in the direct conversation with the former
president, Poroshenko.
CHANCE: As far as you're aware, was there any indication that Vice President Biden was asking for that prosecutor to be fired in order to
protect that Ukrainian gas company where his son worked at the board of directors?
KLIMKIN: No, definitely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Just looking at the copy of the transcript I've got as well here, basically President Trump saying, look, Biden went around bragging that he
stopped the prosecution.
So if you can look into it, it sounds horrible to me, Trump says. President Zelensky responds and says, I know about the situation, I'm going
to have my own general prosecutor soon, who will be approved by the parliament and he or she will look into company that you mentioned.
I spoke to a prominent Ukrainian lawmaker yesterday, who told me, since this conversation took place in July, the government in Ukraine has moved
to begin the process of reopening several corruption cases, including this case involving the prosecutor who Joe Biden asked to be fired.
[11:40:00]
CHANCE: So you know, it's difficult to say. They're saying it's not because of pressure. But nevertheless, they seem to be moving in that
direction anyway.
ANDERSON: Fascinating, isn't it?
Matthew, thank you.
Stephen, Matthew just reading out some of the specific part of this transcript, which alludes to Hunter Biden, Joe Biden's son. Let's just
have a look at that.
"There's a lot of talk about Biden's son," says Donald Trump to the Ukrainian president, "that Biden stopped the prosecution. And a lot of
people want to find out about that. So whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great," he says.
"Biden," Hunter that is, "went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution. So if you can look into it, dot dot dot, it sounds horrible
to me."
Is that an indication that everything is fine?
There's no pressure here?
COLLINSON: The intention of the president in releasing this transcript was to try to halt or severely undercut Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker's
announcement that there would be an impeachment inquiry. It has had the opposite effect. Democrats are seizing upon this.
And those details that you mention there, where the president is talking about former Vice President Joe Biden, to say this is a smoking gun. The
chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff, who is a close Pelosi ally, basically said this was the language of a classic mob
shakedown.
So if the president thought the Democrats were going to reverse and perhaps regret their decision to push ahead for impeachment, he's clearly been very
mistaken. Whether that is some kind of political misjudgment on the part of the president, it's not clear.
What is happening, of course, is that the Republicans are quickly building the defense around the president. Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina
senator, who is a big ally of Trump, said it will be insane to impeach Trump over a phone call.
And the battlegrounds are being drawn, which will prevail basically through this long, months-long process of impeachment. Clearly, this is going to
go full bore ahead, even more so after the events of this morning.
ANDERSON: Yes, and political observers, you know, have had and will continue to warn Democrats that an impeachment investigation with a focus
on Ukraine could hurt their chances of taking back the White House in 2020.
One opinion writer in "The Washington Post" writes, and I'll quote him here, "Such an investigation will be far more damaging for Biden than the
president. It will keep the story of Joe Biden's conflict of interest in the news through the 2020 election."
I know that you and I have had this discussion before of a U.S. president, a current U.S. president, who feels he can outmaneuver others at every
turn.
COLLINSON: There's an interesting question about whether this specifically hurts Joe Biden and makes it look to Democrats, who are doubtful about his
chances of beating Trump, look, maybe we should choose a candidate that's got no baggage in the background, even if there's no evidence that Biden
did anything wrong or his son did.
That's an interesting question which will play into the Democratic race. The problem with the assessment that this could hurt the Democrats, nobody
really can tell. Sure, there could be a backlash against Democrats for impeaching the president. This will certainly enliven the president's
supporters, who will feel their vote in 2016 is in danger of being canceled out by an impeachment process.
It will rally Republicans around the president. But it could have the same effect for Democrats, who have long worried that the power they got by
winning the House back in the midterm elections is not being properly used to constrain Trump.
Allan Lichtman, the historian you had on earlier, made a good point about the 2000 election. In that case after the impeachment of Bill Clinton, his
would-be successor, Al Gore, wasn't able to lay claim to the legacy of Bill Clinton in economic terms and -- in economic terms and in the sort of --
the peace the Clinton administration benefitted from around the world.
He couldn't claim that legacy. So it's quite possible that the president could also be damaged by this as well.
ANDERSON: Yes. Fascinating. Always a pleasure, sir, Washington or New York, wherever you are, you're always welcome on this show.
[11:45:00]
ANDERSON: Stephen Collinson in the house while all of this goes down in Washington.
President Trump is in New York for the U.N. General Assembly. The big question there is whether or not he'll meet with the Iranian leader, Hassan
Rouhani. We're live in Tehran for you for that. Up next.
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ANDERSON: Right, you're back with CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for you. We're out of Abu Dhabi. I want to get you to New York.
Mr. Rouhani has just wrapped up his speech at the U.N. General Assembly.
Is there any chance he'll meet with President Trump on the sidelines of the summit?
According to the Iranian leader, it's not likely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The government and people of Iran have remained steadfast against the harshest sanctions in
the past one and a half years and will never negotiate with an enemy that seeks to make Iran surrender with the weapon of poverty, pressure and
sanctions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: What goes on in New York does not stay in New York. There is a domestic audience as well as an international audience for President
Rouhani. I want to get you to Tehran now. On the ground there for us is CNN's Fred Pleitgen.
What did you make of what we've heard and its significance?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's interesting you said there's a domestic audience in Iran as well. All the
Iranian news agencies pretty much have the same headline in all this. It was exactly what we just heard from Hassan Rouhani there, saying Iran's
answer to negotiations under pressure is no.
That was a key component of his speech. He launched into it at the beginning, talking about the a lot of the sanctions Iran is facing and
again saying that Iran will face down these sanctions and will continue to stand strong.
I think it was interesting; when he reached the part when he said Iran would not negotiate under duress, he also seemed to lay out a path where
negotiations might be possible or circumstances under which negotiations might be possible. He said it pretty much addressing President Trump
himself that if the U.S. did come back to the nuclear agreement, then the Iranians would be possibly willing to talk about further things as well.
One of the things he said is, if you want more from Iran, more concessions from Iran, you're going to have to give more as well. That, of course, is
something we've been hearing from other Iranian officials as well around the UNGA, that they were thinking about, for instance, a permanent freeze
of sanctions and then allowing permanently the inspections of their nuclear facilities.
That might be something that could be floated. You're absolutely right.
[11:50:00]
PLEITGEN: There's barely a chance there could be any interaction or meeting between Hassan Rouhani, the president of Iran, and the U.S.
president here at that UNGA summit. the way things stand right now.
But at least there seems to be a path that was going forward. The Iranians also introducing a new initiative for peace in the Strait of Hormuz,
inviting other nations on board as well with that. We'll wait and see what the reactions are from the neighboring countries after all the turmoil
we've seen.
ANDERSON: Also there are other stakeholders in this whole U.S.-Iran spat, not least the Europeans and the E3, Brits, the French and the Germans.
Some interesting sound from the French and British leaders, obviously, pushing Hassan Rouhani for a meeting with Donald Trump, playing the
diplomatic card. Have a listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We believe that without meeting the president on this --
(CROSSTALK)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: (INAUDIBLE), I don't know your project (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) well. I think that's a good idea.
BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: (INAUDIBLE) agree with Emmanuel. (INAUDIBLE). I need to be on the side of the (INAUDIBLE) at the same time.
MACRON: I agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Who said diplomacy was dead in the corridors of power?
Still to come, unclassified, stamped in red. President Trump's controversial call with the Ukrainian president has been released. More on
that after this.
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ANDERSON: Some congressional Democrats who now support an impeachment probe say President Trump is a threat to national security. But the
release of a transcript of the U.S. president's call to Ukraine's president is only hardening the political divide in the U.S.
Democrats say the president's actions trample on the Constitution while his supporters and the president himself claim it is just another witch hunt.
CNN's legal analyst Paul Callan is joining us with more on how this impeachment probe might unfold.
Whether or not the release of this transcript proves that Nancy Pelosi was right to call these proceedings, your thoughts?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hard to say. But I must say the transcript of this conversation is very, very damaging to the president.
And it's crystal clear in it that he's trying to get the president of the Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden's son and the possibility that Biden had
tried to influence the prosecutor, the prior prosecutor, who was investigating various things in Ukraine.
[11:55:00]
CALLAN: So how this plays out ultimately, I think now you have an additional piece of evidence that the Democrats will use to support
possibly impeachment charges against the president. Pelosi had resisted that up until now. But I think there's sufficient detail in this document
that she may now go forward with a formal impeachment probe.
ANDERSON: Well, that is fascinating to hear. So we're at the back end of our show. I want to leave it there. We'll have you back. This is going
nowhere, this story. We'll be on it going forward. Thank you, sir.
CALLAN: Thank you, Becky.
ANDERSON: Viewers, we're coming to you, of course, from our home here in the UAE, a small nation of rich Bedouin culture, thriving with ambition.
In less than 50 years, the Emiratis have soared from desert wanderers to space explorers.
Just an hour ago, Hazzaa al-Mansoori became the first Emirati astronaut to take off for the International Space Station, soaring to the stars from
Kazakhstan, along with an American and a Russian. Al-Mansoori will be on the Space Station for eight days.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD, this is our new two-hour edition. First week, I hope you're enjoying it, thank you for watching. Stay with us.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And lift off.
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[12:00:00]
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