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U.S. Troops Begin Pullout From Syria Near Turkey`s Border; Turkey To Send Troops Into Northern Syria; Dutch Foreign Minister Speaks To CNN; Macron Gives Johnson Until End Of Week To Alter Brexit Plan. Aired 11-12a ET
Aired October 07, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:01:04]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, a significant foreign policy move by the Trump administration. U.S. Troops
are right now withdrawing from Northern Syria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The move essentially abandons the Kurdish fighters who fought alongside U.S. forces against ISIS in Syria.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is actually a loss for President Trump. He has been unable to convince the Turkish leader, a NATO ally, not to move into
Northern Syria.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The withdrawal has started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: Well, this hour as Turkey gets set to invade Syria, we speak to the Turkish president`s chief counselor in what is an exclusive interview.
Plus we`ll hear from the Dutch foreign minister on ISIS, on Brexit, and more. Starting off with a stunning a announcement from the Trump
administration. Ordering U.S. forces to effectively abandon Kurdish allies. American troops are withdrawing from Northern Syria.
Clearing wait for a military operation by Turkey. That move leaves behind the Kurdish fighters who fought alongside the U.S. to defeat ISIS. Turkey
says it wants to clear Kurdish militia who it labels as, "terrorists from an area near its border." It would also create a buffer zone to return
Syrian refugees. Well, Ben Wedeman joins us live from (INAUDIBLE) Syrian conflict since it began. And so, the last days of the ISIS caliphate, Ryan
Browne tracking developments from the Pentagon.
And Ryan, let me start with you. Jim Jeffrey, who is U.S. special envoy to the global coalition to defeat ISIS said in a briefing, a little more than
a week ago that, and I quote, "we have made it clear to Turkey at every level that any unilateral operation is not going to lead to an improvement
in anyone`s security, not Turkey`s, not the people in the northeast, not the people around the world who feel threatened by Daesh or ISIS which is
the basic purpose for our U.S. military being in the northeast in the first place."
So, Ryan, how does the White House explain this decision to pull out abandoning the very fighters who helped the U.S. in their fight against
ISIS?
RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON REPORTER: Well, it`s been a -- it`s been a confusing series of explanations. Late Sunday night Washington Time, they
-- the White House issued a statement, a bit of a convoluted statement but it effectively did say that the U.S. was pulling back from the border with
Turkey and that it was acknowledging that Turkey was going to launch this operation. It wasn`t a clear endorsement of Turkey`s operation per se but
many saw that as kind of giving the green light for a potential Turkish operation saying it was pulling back and that, you know, stressing from the
U.S. perspective, the White House stressing that ISIS has been defeated, at least territorially.
And then President Trump doubling down in a series of tweets this morning saying that while the Kurds had fought with the United States, the U.S.
have provided equipment and money saying that kind of absolved the U.S. of any responsibility for them and saying that other countries in the region
should take the lead in fighting ISIS, including overseeing the 10,000 plus ISIS prisoners currently being handled by the U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic
forces.
So not a clear explanation as to why this will be a good thing for the United States and Syria, but President Trump saying this is part of his
political objective of getting the U.S. out of the Middle East. Defense officials though saying there is no belief here from the defense side that
this will bring any positive developments to the region.
ANDERSON: It`s time to get out of these endless wars, said Donald Trump. Ben, Turkey says it wants to clear Kurdish militia who it labels as
terrorists from an area near its border. It says it will also create a buffer zone to return Syrian refugees. I`m talking to the chief counselor
of the Turkish president this hour, and we will -- we will ask him how they expect to do this and why. What`s your perspective on this?
[11:05:17]
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you look at the map that President Erdogan showed at the United Nations general
assembly last month when he was laying out this buffer zone, it extends 30 kilometers inside Northern Syria along the border where more than 700,000
people live at the moment, many of them Kurds. And he is proposing to settle perhaps more than a million Syrian refugees in that area.
That will be hugely disruptive to a part of Syria that despite the war with ISIS has been spared much of the chaos, bloodshed and destruction the rest
of the country has suffered. In addition to this, the fact that the Syrian Democratic forces, predominantly Kurdish, is worried about this invasion,
this potential invasion, they are talking about pulling some of their troops who are responsible for maintaining security at these prisons and
camps where thousands of ISIS fighters, as well more than a thousand foreign fighters as well as their families, more than 10,000 people
currently are, and there`s the worry that there could be a jail break from there.
So, perhaps President Trump is addressing an immediate political ambition, but we are looking at the possibility of opening up sort of a Pandora`s Box
of even more bloodshed, destruction and chaos in a part of the Middle East which has already seen so much already. Becky?
ANDERSON: Ben Wedeman on the story, as is Ryan Browne in Washington. To both of you, thank you. As I said, this hour we will connect you to
Erdogan`s chief counselor Ibrahim Kalin joining me live. He says Turkey will not allow ISIS to return in, "any shape or form." We`ll ask him how
they propose to succeed in that this hour. Also, alongside this troop withdrawal, the White House says Turkey will now be responsible for
captured ISIS fighters currently held by U.S.-backed Kurdish forces.
This comes as the Netherlands calls for a tribunal to be set up to try ISIS members. Stef Blok is the Dutch minister of foreign affairs and is for
coalition of countries to be set up to take steps towards international prosecution against ISIS. And he joins me now live from The Hague. And
before we talk about how you propose that that might work, last night`s White House announcement, sir, effectively green lighting Turkey to attack
the U.S.-based Kurdish forces who helped the U.S. fight ISIS in Syria.
The announcement from the U.S. also lambasting European nations for not taking back their citizens who joined ISIS, saying the U.S. will not hold
them for what could be many years at great cost to the American taxpayer. And he went on to say the responsibility is now Turkey`s and Europe`s
amongst others. What do you make of this late-night shift in U.S. foreign policy? And did this move come as a surprise to you?
STEF BLOK, DUTCH MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Well, of course we are following the developments closely and we are in contact both with our
European allies and U.S. to get clarifications. We are very much committed to the developments in the region. That`s the reason why we organized a
meeting last week in New York about organizing an international tribunal for ISIS fighters, but we also have an active part of the coalition
fighting ISIS and we are heavily involved in assembling evidence both in Iraq and Syria to make it possible to halt the terrorists of ISIS to
justice.
ANDERSON: So Brett McGurk, who resigned last year, said the Trump administration special envoy on ISIS. Says to the White House shows and I
quote him, "a complete lack of understanding on the ground." Adding, the U.S. is not holding ISIS detainees, they`re being held by the SDF, which --
and I quote McGurk here, "Trump just served up to Turkey." Now, the SDF, sir, told CNN they need to use troops guarding ISIS fighters to defend
themselves against Turkey.
[11:10:04]
ANDERSON: And one U.S. general telling CNN U.S. allies think the U.S. are, "idiots." Do you agree with that sentiment?
BLOK: Well, everybody chooses his own wording, of course. But we are very concerned about both the stability in the region, that`s why we call on all
parties, Turkey, the Kurds, to refrain from any steps that could add to the tensions or even violence. And furthermore, we definitely are very
concerned about the ISIS fighters, the women still held in captivity both in Iraq and by the Kurds because we are convinced that they should be
brought to justice.
And this should be done in the region. It`s just the normal way in international law, that if somebody commits a crime, he should be brought
to justice in the region where the victims are, where the witnesses are, and Netherlands together with other western European countries is willing
to work out a solution with countries in the region. That`s why we organized this meeting and this is why we are working closely with Iraq and
my Iraqi colleague al-Hakim because we realize the heavy burden on Iraq where 20,000 ISIS fighters are held in captivity.
We realize the heavy burden on the region, that`s also feeling the burden of the refugees, so we are willing to take our responsibility there.
ANDERSON: OK.
BLOK: And doing our best to work out a feasible way, especially for the international tribunal.
ANDERSON: Yes. Let me just sort of cross examine that slightly here. You`re calling for international prosecution. That requires international
unity. You say, how do you hope to achieve this?
BLOK: We brought together some 30 countries last week during the United Nations general assembly. And I hosted the meeting together with my Iraqi
colleague, al-Hakim moderated by Amal Clooney, who is very much involved in bringing justice to the victims of the terrible crimes committed by ISIS.
The countries participating were both from the region and from Western Europe. The U.S. was also, of course, represented.
Because we all see the need of making sure that ISIS doesn`t walk away unfinished. There should be justice because of the terrible crimes,
probably amounting to genocide, and also to make it possible to find a lasting solution both for Iraq and for the future of Syria.
ANDERSON: Let`s talk about -- yes, let`s talk about Iraq --
BLOK: It`s necessary to start with --
ANDERSON: CNN went to the Al-Hawl Refugee Camp in Iraq and Syria earlier this year. Set up by the SDF, it`s home to the women and children of ISIS
fighters. Here`s a snippet of CNN`s Arwa Damon`s report. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: To step into this camp is to witness a strange mutation of ISIS kept alive by the widows and wives
of the terrorist group the Trump administration says has been defeated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There are cells here. They`re organized.
DAMON: A spirit of vengeance seeps into the next generation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I tell them their father was killed by the infidels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Kurdish forces call this camp a ticking time bomb. You want to prosecute ISIS fighters. What`s your plan for their wives and children?
People who may want to, and we`ve heard evidence that they will want to seek revenge?
BLOK: Often the wives were themselves involved in atrocities. We heard terrible stories about -- especially Yazidi women and children being held
as slaves and the wives of ISIS fighters playing a very negative role in those households that people are held as slaves. Some of them may have
committed crimes themselves. So the women also should be brought to justice. Of course as in any case where women with children are facing a
sentence, the children should be taken care of and they are very often with the mother in custody, maybe in orphanages.
[11:15:09]
BLOK: Of course they should be taken care of. The fact that women that committed crimes who have children cannot be a reason for not facing trial.
ANDERSON: All right. I do want to have a conversation with you about Brexit because we are less than a month until Brexit and the French
president, Emmanuel Macron spoke with the British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson over the weekend saying that he needs to amend his Brexit will do
so?
BLOK: Well, we aren`t at the 31st of October yet. And this morning I spoke with U.K. Minister Barclay about the proposal that the U.K.
administration has put forward last week which contained some more detail about solving the Irish border question, which is also of the utmost
importance to Netherlands. We are a trading company. So our companies and our consumers expect that after Brexit they will have to guarantee that
there won`t be any unfair competition through the Irish border from U.K. companies not part anymore of the common market and no products that won`t
fulfill the E.U. quality criteria.
Michel Barnier is negotiating on our behalf, he has our full trust. And with Michel Barnier, the Dutch government says the U.K. should take
additional steps in the coming day to ascertain words that still live here in Netherlands and the European Union.
ANDERSON: OK. That`s fascinating. Brexit, of course, was propelled partly by the European refugee crisis at its height in 2015. The context
behind Turkey`s offensive that it has announced today is that it wants to resettle some two million Syrians in a safe zone just south of its borders.
Are Turkey`s NATO allies supporting this move?
BLOK: First of all, we have to acknowledge that Turkey has taken a heavy burden on its shoulders by admitting some three million Syrian refugees.
And part of the E.U./Turkish agreement is that we do support them financially to share this burden with Turkey. Part of the agreement is, of
course, that they do their share and sending back refugees to their country of origin involuntarily would be a violation of the Geneva Refugee
Convention, so I didn`t see any specific steps from Turkey with this regards but at this stage it`s my conviction that Syria isn`t ready for
resettlement of refugees yet.
ANDERSON: Finally, and back to the story that we started with, which is that of the very late-night announcement by the White House on a
significant shift in foreign policy, the U.S. pulling its troops from support of Kurdish forces in Turkey. One of the tweets that the U.S.
president put out in supporting that decision was words to the effect of ISIS is something like 7,000 miles away from us.
If they raise their head again to attack us, we will defend ourselves. Does it -- does it feel to you or can you explain as a European whether it
feels like Donald Trump is sort of effectively closing the door on any U.S. support against ISIS going forward? And quite frankly saying to the
Europeans, it`s your move -- it`s your move at this point, your problem, deal with it?
BLOK: The threat of ISIS, the threat of Islamic terrorism is not only pointing towards Europe but also to the U.S. The U.S. has, of course, with
9/11 in mind and a number of attacks on U.S. citizens outside U.S. its own experience with Islamic terrorism.
[11:20:07]
BLOK: So it`s a common interest of both the U.S. and European countries to stand together to fight ISIS, al-Qaeda or whatever form Islamic terrorism
takes in the Middle East, in Afghanistan where we have been cooperating with the U.S. for a long period. And the Netherlands has taken its share
and is still willing to take its share but it is a common interest.
ANDERSON: With that, sir, we`ll leave it there. We very much appreciate your time and your thoughts on a myriad of issues today, but two extremely
important stories roiling, making headlines here on CNN. Thank you, sir.
Still ahead, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. I`m Becky Anderson. The U.S. President goes into attack mode as the impeachment inquiry escalates. And
Donald Trump has one very big friend in the media trying to save him from impeachment. We`ll take a look at his relationship with Fox News.
And in Iraq, military forces have pulled out of areas near Baghdad after the army admits to excessive force against protesters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, obviously it`s fake because almost everything the Washington Post does is fake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That`s a familiar mantra heard over and over and over from Donald Trump, deflecting blame and hurling it back at the media and his
Democratic detractors. But will the impeachment inquiry now under way in Congress force the president to change the calculus for how he responds?
There are now two whistleblowers involved. A lawyer for the second revealed this past weekend claims his client has firsthand knowledge about
the president`s July phone call with his Ukrainian counterpart.
Democrats and many former officials of both parties are calling this the biggest political crisis in the U.S. since Watergate. If you watch Fox
News, you wouldn`t think so. Most of its commentators and personalities are front and center defending the president. Listen to this from Fox News
Correspondent Geraldo Rivera talking to another fox news host, Sean Hannity, who many consider Trump`s biggest supporter in conservative media.
[11:25:13]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You know, if it wasn`t your show, Sean, they would destroy him absolutely. You`re the difference between
Donald J. Trump and Richard Nixon. In Nixon`s case if he had someone that stuck up for him, he wouldn`t have been, you know, motivated to cover up
that burglary. He would have let the perpetrators get their just desserts.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: I don`t -- I don`t --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Chief -- CNN`s Chief Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter is with me. Nothing to see here say the commentators and most anchors on Fox. And
nothing that surprise -- should surprise us. Is this a personal editorial position from hosts and commentators or is this genuinely a corporate line
that the organization has taken?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think many of these hosts and commentators, these conservative talking heads on Fox, share the
president`s personal sense of victimhood, personal sense of grievance, so there is a connection on a personal level. But this is also a business
calculation. Whenever I speak with sources at Fox, they make it very clear the thing that keeps them up at night, the thing they fear is losing the
audience.
Losing that grip they have on the audience. And so they will do and say almost anything to hold on to that audience, including the number one
viewer, President Trump. So we are seeing this feedback loop in real time. Trump is getting his talking points from Fox. He`s hearing words like coup
on Fox and repeating them and around and around we go, Becky.
ANDERSON: Since Mr. Trump took office, Brian, some Fox News personalities have taken it a step further and in effect accusing Democrats are trying to
overthrow the president. I want our viewers to just have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSH LIMBAUGH, AMERICAN TALK SHOW HOST: We`re in the midst of a silent coup.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We have a coup on our hands in America.
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: We were grilling in the backyard last night. They were plotting in effect a coup.
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK ANCHOR: The biggest scandal of our time, it`s just incredible, the coup that failed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2016 we had effectively a coup.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He and a small cabal of people at the FBI attempted a coup.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Brian, is there a red line that -- I ask this and given what we`ve just heard probably I can answer my own question. But is there a red
line below which, as it were, Fox news hosts and commentators wouldn`t be prepared to go?
STELTER: I think there should be a red line. But at the moment it does not seem that there is one. We are in an environment where extreme
rhetoric wins the day, at least wins the ratings book. And what we are seeing in America right now is partly the result of this Foxification of
our politics, where conspiracy theoriesm where, you know, where that kind of extreme rhetoric can hold forth.
All of those comments about a coup, those were said well before the Ukraine scandal. But then when the scandal came along and the president`s
incriminating words were published, the coup work who came up again and these Fox hosts again said this is another attempt at a coup to take down
the president. Of course as our viewers know a coup is an illegal violent overthrow of the government.
What we are witnessing is a legal impeachment process. But the president hears this stuff, he repeats it and it`s a vicious cycle that ends up I
think misleading millions of people. In the short term it does help Fox`s business. In the long term though I think it does a disservice and
ultimately it`s the Murdochs who have that say, who have that sway, who have that vote. It`s Rupert Murdoch and his son Lachlan that run the
company.
And judging by what we see on the air every day, they are supporting President Trump and approving of this kind of extreme language.
ANDERSON: Mr. Stelter is in the house. Always a pleasure, sir, thank you.
STELTER: Thank you. Thanks.
ANDERSON: I`m toggling between two stories for you today. Impeachment and the U.S. decision to pull its remaining troops from Syria as Turkey is
planning a military operation in the north of Syria. The U.S. pulling troops from the region and that is leaving their Kurdish allies exposed.
In just a bit we`ll hear from one of the advisors to Turkey`s president about moving forward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:33:02]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: A quick look at our top stories for you. Two more witnesses are expected to testify this week as the
impeachment inquiry facing U.S. President Donald Trump ramps up. Meanwhile, a second whistleblower has come forward. The person`s lawyer
says the new whistleblower works in the intelligence community and has firsthand knowledge backing the first claims.
And President Trump`s energy secretary is acknowledging he asked President Trump to call the Ukraine January president multiple times. Rick Perry now
at an Energy Conference in Lithuania says it was to talk about energy issues and not the Bidens. To our other top story now and the Trump
administration`s remarkable decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Northern Syria. Donald Trump made that decision after speaking with Turkey`s
president who is planning a military operation against Syria`s Kurdish population.
One U.S. senator is calling for Turkey to be suspended from NATO if it moves forward with the planned assault. And the former U.S. ambassador to
the U.N. says, "we must always have the backs of our allies." The group with the most to lose in this situation, Syria`s Kurds, who say the United
States has abandoned them. Ibrahim Kalin is Mr. Erdogan`s spokesman joins and he joins me now on the phone from Belgrade in Syria for what is an
exclusive interview.
Thank you, sir. Can you provide details on what the U.S. President and your boss discussed, and why it is that Turkey is so intent on this
incursion, some call it an invasion now?
IBRAHIM KALIN, TURKISH PRESIDENT`S SPOKESMAN (via telephone): Well, first of all, thank you, Becky. The call yesterday between the two presidents
focused on Northern Syria and what`s happening there. Our president has called for a safe zone for the refugees for the last almost four years. He
discussed this with President Obama but unfortunately we were not able to make any progress.
[11:35:01]
KALIN: That has created a huge refugee problem for Turkey but also another problem that most of the world has tended not to see which is the
presidents of the PKK in Syria. PKK is listed as a terrorist organization in the U.S., in Europe and many other parts of the world. And what you
call PYD/YPG in Syria is the PKK Syria branch and it`s a (INAUDIBLE) terrorist organization. So the safe zone issue has two main goals.
It will secure Turkey`s border just as Americans care about border security, we have to take care of our border security. And the second
purpose of the safe zone is to provide places for the refugees to return to safety and voluntarily. Turkey has no interest in occupying any part of
Syria. We haven`t done so in Jarabulus when we fought against Daesh and eliminate the 3,000 terrorists there or when we entered (INAUDIBLE) we have
not occupied any part of Syria.
We have returned those places to the local owners and residents. And we have no intention of occupying any part of Syria in the east of the
Euphrates either.
ANDERSON: You --
KALIN: And also, we have no interest in changing the demographics there. That is -- this is not a move against the Kurds there, it doesn`t have any
problem with the Kurds. We are fighting against the Kurds organization that has killed and oppressed the Kurdish people as well.
ANDERSON: Mr. Kalin, how can you guarantee that the resettling of two million refugees from Turkey back to Syria is not going to cause
demographic reengineering?
KALIN: Well, what -- or who really changed the demographics east of Euphrates, well, the PKK, PYD/YPG. They entered Arab towns like Tell
Abyad, Rose Hill (INAUDIBLE) and other places. And forced people to flee. In fact, the Amnesty International And Human Rights Watch have published
two reports about this, about two years ago. And one report actually said that some of the things that PYD/YPG did in these Arab towns amount to war
crimes but no one has reported about this.
Places where the Kurds have lived for centuries. They will of course continue to do. We have no interest in altering the demographics, it was
the PKK and PYD that has changed the demographics there. So the refugees in Turkey, which is about 3.5 million from Syria, will go back to places
where they come from. They`re not forcing anybody to go anywhere they don`t want to go.
ANDERSON: Mr. Kalin, you tweeted today saying essentially Turkey has no interest in anybody`s territory, that being Syria`s, and will continue to
support the fight against terrorism. This is important. How can you ensure that this incursion will not unleash ISIS militants?
KALIN: But no -- the fight against ISIS will continue unabated. We have fought against ISIS in the Jarabulus area and eliminated more than 3,000 of
them. We have arrested about 5,000 of them. Extradited or expelled, you know, many thousands when they were at the peak of their power. Now ISIS
has lost most of its power, and there are places where they, you know, might be present and we will continue to be fighting against them together
with the international coalition with the United States, the European countries and others.
But the thing is, Becky, the PKK/PYD in Syria has been using the presence of ISIS pockets (INAUDIBLE) as a pretext to justify. There is a military
presence, there are occupation of Arab towns. Now, the issue of ISIS prisoners in different places in Northern Syria is also related to this.
In fact President Trump in fact have said rightly, I think, European countries from which many of these ISIS fighters have come have refused to
take them back.
In fact they`re obligated legally to take them back because they are citizens. But since they have been, you know, terrorist involved in
terrorist activities, they run away from taking any responsibility. So the PKK in Syria just using them as an excuse to get more weapons --
ANDERSON: All right. So, let`s talk about this.
KALIN: Yes.
ANDERSON: Let`s talk about this because Donald Trump has said it`s your problem now, not ours, as far as ISIS is concerned. You being Turkey, by
the way, Europe, and others. Can you say categorically tonight that you are not concerned about the fact that some 20,000 ISIS fighters and/or
supporters, wives included there, won`t be allowed to just effectively roam free and mingle back into societies going into Turkey? And for example,
heading for Europe?
KALIN: Well, first of all, the numbers have to be identified properly.
[11:40:03]
KALIN: We don`t know exactly what -- they have -- have different numbers. At one point it was 700 prisoners, at another point they said 2,000. In
other point they said it`s even more. And then --
ANDERSON: Be that as it may, be that as it may. the question remains, sir.
KALIN: Yes. Yes. So I lost you there for a minute. Hello?
ANDERSON: Yes. Be that as it may, the question remains how can you ensure that these ISIS fighters aren`t allowed to escape from where they are at
present and head for, for example, Turkey, Europe and elsewhere?
KALIN: Yes. We will never let them in fact go anywhere, either to Turkey, to Europe or any other Arab country. But this is not only our
responsibility, this is the responsibility of the international community. We will continue to coordinate this with the U.S., with the international
coalition, with the European countries, Arab countries and others obviously. And in fact we fought against ISIS and eliminated them when
they were at the peak of their power.
Now they lost much of their power. Their so called caliphate has been destroyed. And they don`t have the manpower or the military power that
they had two years ago, so we can in fact deal with this issue much more effectively than if it was the case about two years ago.
ANDERSON: OK. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham has called for Turkey to be suspended from NATO if they attack Kurdish forces. What`s your
response, sir?
KALIN: First of all, Lindsey Graham, we consider him to be a friend of Turkey. He is an experienced diplomat. He knows foreign policy and
international issues. His statement today was very disappointing. I think it`s based on salacious information. First of all, we are not attacking
the Kurds. We are fighting against terrorist networks in Syria which includes Daesh, ISIS, as well as PYDY, so this is not a fight against the
Kurds.
There are thousands of Kurds in Syria who do subscribe PKK/PYD, the Marxist Leninist ideology and it`s really an item in history that the United States
has picked up. And Marxist Lennist organization in Syria as its ally. They either talk about the U.S. taking care of its allies, we thought when
you say ally you refer to Turkey, not to terrorist organization. If there is one ally to take care of for the U.S.., that should be Turkey.
A NATO ally, not the terrorist network there. So Lindsey Graham`s statement was disappointing. It`s just based on a wrong fact. I mean, he
knows the facts on the ground. We can do this fight against Daesh, we can secure Syria for the Syrians themselves but, you know, those statements do
not tend to reflect the facts on the ground.
ANDERSON: Did you get permission from your NATO allies to move forward with this offense, yes or no?
KALIN: Well, this is an NATO operation, this is -- this is an operation that Turkey is taking on the basis of its own national security concerns.
ANDERSON: Was there a quid pro quo between President Erdogan and the U.S. President? What`s the U.S. getting in return for this decision?
KALIN: There is not. We`ve been -- we`ve been talking about the safe zone. Remember, President Trump wanted to pull out of Syria about eight
months ago, but his security and military bureaucracy prevented him from doing this. And then we had the Manbij Road, Manbij was never
materialized. And then we had this, the safe zone agreement where we thought, yuk we can secure those areas together with the United States, but
it`s taking forever.
And we see a lot of, you know, buying time tactics on the ground and our then president said enough is enough. You know, we have to secure these
borders. We cannot PKK have a kind of state like present in our -- to our south and this is not good for Syria. This is not good for Syrian people
and this is not good for us. Therefore, what they`re doing there is really to give a chance to Syria to maintain its territory integrity and get rid
of the terrorist network from where they are present.
ANDERSON: OK. I`m just going to ask this question once again. What, if anything, was Donald Trump promised by the Turkish president in making this
decision?
KALIN: Yes. Two presidents as I said, they have discussed this issue, you know, many times over the last year and a half. President Trump wanted to
pull out but, you know, his military and security establishment did not let him do it and now he decided to go out. Of course as far as I understand
they are not pulling out completely from Syria but they`re leaving those areas that we agreed as safe zones. They are just leaving those areas so
that we can secure it for the Syrian people.
ANDERSON: Iran`s foreign minister has stepped in in the past few minutes saying that the United States is "an irrelevant occupier in Syria" and so
it`s futile to seek its permission or rely on it for security.
[11:45:08]
ANDERSON: Goes on to say that Iran stands ready to help. Will this U.S. withdrawal allow Iran to grow its presence in Syria?
KALIN: Well, if you look at the map of Syria over the last couple of years, Iran has not been present in the east of the country. They have
been mostly helping the regime in the western part of the country around Damascus, Aleppo, Hamma and those areas. In the east of Euphrates there
has been this presence of the PKK, PYD in Syria. So the Iranians have not been involved in fact in the eastern part of the country.
Of course together with Iran and Russia, we have been continuing the Astana process to end the hostilities to help the political process and during
everything under the U.N. in Geneva and this is what we have achieved. Establishment of the constitutional committee, was made possible through
the Astana process, through the work of our president together with President Putin and Rouhani. And that`s a success obviously for Syria.
Now the constitutional committee will have its first meeting at the end of this month and this will be a huge benefit for the political process.
Therefore, let me also underline in this context that Turkey fully respects and support Syria`s territorial integrity within the context of the -- on
security council regulation 2254. So we remain committed to Syria`s territorial integrity. In fact, it is the separatist agenda of PYD/YPG
that has threatened serious territorial integrity.
And will continue to coordinate our efforts there with the DUS, with Russia, with Europeans, with Iran and other stakeholders.
ANDERSON: I -- Donald Trump has tweeted just in the past couple of minutes, so I want to close out our conversation with your response to
this. As I have stated strongly before, he says, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I in my great and unmatched wisdom consider to be
off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the economy of Turkey, "In brackets, I`ve done before."
They must with Europe and others watch over the captured ISIS fighters and families. The U.S. has done far more than anyone could have ever expected
including the capture of 100 percent of the ISIS caliphate. It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own
territory. The USA is great. That`s quite a stinging suggestion, isn`t it? About Turkey? In my great unmatched wisdom consider it to be off
limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the economy of Turkey.
He says I`ve done it before. They must with Europe and others watch over the captured ISIS fighters. That`s -- do you take that as a threat, sir?
KALIN: Well, the gist of it is that, you know, these captured ISIS fighters, the terrorists, have to be brought to justice. Europeans have
refused to take them so far. So he`s going to take responsibility for them. It`s not any single country`s responsibility, it`s everybody`s
responsibility to bring an end to this horrible episode in the history -- in the modern history of the Middle East and Syria, that is ISIS.
And we really cannot just say that as the international community, we (INAUDIBLE) at destroying this terrorist network. I think we have the
means to do it. We will do it with the Europeans, Americans and others with their support and coordination. I think if there is enough will and
wisdom and leadership, we can certainly do it, we will work out the details of it. But again, let me underline, this is in no way an attack on the
Kurds of Syria or invasion of any part of Syria, that has never been our intention, it`s never been our course of action and I think our actions so
far speak much louder.
Turkey has done much more for the Syrian people and the Syrian refugees than any other country in the world and it will continue to do so for them.
ANDERSON: Ibrahim Kalin, thank you for your time. It is 10 to 8:00 in the UAE. We are broadcasting from our Middle East broadcasting hub here.
Quick break. Stay with us.
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[11:53:58]
ANDERSON: Iraq`s army now admitting it used excessive force against the protesters. The prime minister has withdrawn military forces in one
district of Baghdad and replaced them with federal police. At least 104 people have been killed and more than 6,000 have been injured in days of
anti-government protest. Eyewitnesses claim troops have deliberately shot into crowds of protesters.
Now, the demonstrators are protesting against high unemployment, corruption and a lack of services, none of which is new in Iraq. CNN`s Arwa Damon
joining us live from Baghdad. Arwa?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Becky. And that district of Baghdad that you`re talking about is known as Sutter City.
It`s this massive, sprawling, very heavily populated slum. Also the stronghold, the support base for radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-
Sadr who is fairly powerful not just when it comes to his popular support but also in parliament as well and following violent clashes in that
neighborhood last night.
[11:55:00]
DAMON: The Iraqi Security Forces then put out that statement specific only, though, Becky, to that particular neighborhood. Now, we were out
earlier today talking to people who weren`t necessarily partaking in the demonstrations, people of all different ages. And here`s what`s
interesting. All of them said even though they weren`t going out and mostly they weren`t going out because they were afraid of the heavy hand of
the Iraqi forces, they still supported what was happening.
They still supported those youth who continue to go out and put pressure on the government to live up to its promises because they say change has to
happen now. The status quo cannot be allowed to continue, Becky.
ANDERSON: Arwa Damon is in Baghdad for you. Arwa, thank you. An extremely busy couple of hours for you. Just before we go, the former U.S.
Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, saying, and I quote, "Leaving them to die is a big mistake. Talking about her old boss`
decision to pull out of Northern Syria and leave the Kurds there to fend for themselves against Turkey." Lots more reaction ahead on CNN and on
CONNECT THE WORLD tomorrow. I`m Becky Anderson. Thank you for watching. See you on Tuesday.
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