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U.S. State Department Orders Ambassador Not to Testify, House Dems Say They'll Subpoena Him; Trump Defends Syria Troop Withdrawal, U.N. Advises "Maximum Restraint"; Interview with Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-NY) on White House Blocking Ambassador's Testimony; Rare Republican Call for Answers in Impeachment Inquiry; Tan France Wins International Man of Style Award at "GQ" Middle East; "Queer Eye" Heads to Japan. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired October 08, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Well, a warm welcome to what is a cracking hour ahead for you. Two big stories move apace at lightning
speed. I'm Becky Anderson, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD.
Right now the gloves are off in Washington. And no one is playing nice. U.S. ambassador to the European Union blocked from testifying. We're in
D.C. for more. That is President Trump facing harsh criticism from even some of his closest allies, even people from his own party, blasting his
decision to pull U.S. troops from northern Syria.
Let's begin with that last minute cancellation in the U.S. impeachment inquiry. The U.S. ambassador to the E.U. is now not answering questions
today on Capitol Hill as he was scheduled to do. Gordon Sondland's lawyer says he had to bend to the U.S. State Department's order to stand down
because he is still an employee.
Sondland is considered a key witness to this investigation. And we've just learned the White House advised the State Department to block Sondland's
testimony.
A short time ago the head of the House Intelligence Committee accused the Trump administration again of obstruction, saying there are some crucial
texts or emails on a personal device of Sondland's that are being withheld.
Why could he be so important to Democrats' efforts to impeach Donald Trump?
Let's start with Alex Marquardt. Here's his report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A wealthy donor, given a large but uncontroversial role in the Trump administration, has been thrust
into one of the biggest scandals to grip the White House. Gordon Sondland, ambassador to the European Union, now a key player in the impeachment
inquiry because of his high level dealings with Ukraine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now considering your title, you're the U.S. ambassador to the E.U. but you've been spending a great deal of time in
Kiev. Why is that?
GORDON SONDLAND, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE E.U.: Well, President Trump has not only honored me with the job of being ambassador with the E.U. but
he's also given me other special assignments including Ukraine.
MARQUARDT: Overseeing that relationship meant carrying Trump's message to the Ukrainian president.
SONDLAND: I had a wonderful hour-long meeting with President Zelensky that followed on the heels of his telephone call yesterday with President Trump.
MARQUARDT: Text messages released by the House intelligence committee show that Sondland was well aware that for the president, the U.S.- Ukraine
relationship was deeply intertwined with the president's desire for Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son.
The group messages Sondland is on are full of references to Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, a sign to pushing a Biden conspiracy
theories that has zero supporting evidence.
On September 1st, the ambassador to Ukraine asked Sondland if hundreds of millions of dollars in military assistance were conditioned on
investigations. Sondland responded, " call me."
A week later, the ambassador told Sondland I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. Sondland denied it
was, saying President Trump has been crystal clear that no quid pro quos of any kind. The president is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly
going to adopt the transparency and reforms.
Sondland has ended up in the hot seat in Washington after a career in business. Like President Trump building hotels across the country and
making a lot of money.
In the 2016 campaign, the longtime Republican donor first supported Jeb Bush. He slammed Trump for going after the gold star Kahn family who lost
a son in Iraq but his tune soon changed. Once the election was over Sondland donated a million dollars to Trump's inauguration and secured his
E.U. ambassadorship.
Once there, he linked up with Energy Secretary Rick Perry and now former special envoy Kurt Volker in managing the Ukraine relationship, calling
themselves the three amigos.
SONDLAND: And we've been tasked with sort of overseeing the Ukraine- U.S. relationship between our contacts at the highest levels of the U.S.
government and now the highest levels of the Ukrainian government.
MARQUARDT: There's one more part of that trove of text messages that we need to highlight. A message in which Sondland says that he thinks that
President Trump really wants what he calls the deliverable. That deliverable we understand from the other messages is a public statement
from the Ukrainian president that Joe Biden and his son will be investigated.
[11:05:00]
MARQUARDT: Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: A staunch defender of Donald Trump in the House, Republican Jim Jordan had this to say about Sondland being blocked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Look, we were actually looking forward to hearing from Ambassador Sondland. We thought he was going to reinforce exactly
what Ambassador Volker told us last week.
But again, unfortunately, when you have a Speaker of the House who says we need to strike while the iron is hot, when you have a chairman of the
committee who is so biased against this president that he wouldn't even tell us that he had met with his staff, had met with the whistleblower
prior to the whistleblower filing a complaint --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Just how significant is all of this?
And what might the consequences be for this impeachment inquiry?
I want to talk about that. Joining me now, CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, who is on Capitol Hill.
David Herszenhorn is the chief Brussels correspondent for "Politico," done a lot of research and work on just who Gordon Sondland is.
And Joseph Moreno is a former prosecutor for the U.S. Department of Justice.
Suzanne, let me start with you. The days of playing nice are done. Those are the words from the White House here.
What's the talk there on the Hill about what's going on?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think you're absolutely right. From all sides, nobody is playing nice anymore. It is getting down and
dirty here. This is definitely a standoff.
It's absolutely correct, what you saw there, both Democrats and Republicans were eager to hear from Sondland for very different reasons; Democrats
feeling as if it really advanced the case here that there were discussions that were compromising to the president regarding the Ukrainian leader,
Republicans who said that he had said before in a text message there was no quid quo pro.
So they wanted to get that on the record. Then you have Chairman Schiff, the head of the House Intelligence Committee, who is extremely frustrated.
He said there was no indication of no show. They had just found out an hour before he was slated to come before the committee. Staff as well as
lawmakers who had come back from the recess to actually listen to what would be a critical witness and key testimony.
So honestly, very frustrated. Schiff telling us earlier today that what he's going to do next is that this is very likely a part of a bigger,
larger picture, a larger argument, that he is making, calling for obstruction of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The failure to produce this witness, the failure to produce these documents, we consider yet additional strong evidence of
obstruction of the constitutional functions of Congress, a co-equal branch of government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Just to give you a sense of the spin that's going around, the games being played in Washington, everyone trying to take advantage of this
moment.
We also heard from the president tweeting here, saying, "I would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify.
But unfortunately, he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court where Republican's (sic) rights have been taken away and
true facts are not allowed out for the public to see."
So everybody putting their own take on this. And, in the meantime, there are very serious questions about where the committee goes next with all of
this. You do have the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, who is scheduled to testify before the same committees on Friday.
She was recalled from her post, as you might remember, back in May abruptly. And but she is still a State Department employee.
What happens with her?
Does she move forward in giving her side of the story as well?
All of this still in flux, Becky.
ANDERSON: David Herszenhorn, Donald Trump describing Gordon Sondland as "a really good man" and great American.
What more do we know about Trump's man in Brussels?
DAVID HERSZENHORN, "POLITICO": Sondland is exactly the kind of ambassador that Trump likes. Someone who's willing to repeat the president's dictates
everywhere he goes, to insist again that Trump is correct, whether it's demanding that the E.U. concede points in this trade war that Trump has
initiated. You name it.
And someone who has also cultivated a strong relationship with Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law. We think this is one of the reasons
why he was close to Kurt Volker, the special representative for the State Department to help mediate the Ukraine conflict because Sondland had that
direct line into the White House through Kushner.
So again, he's got a profile very similar to the president, having worked in the private sector in developing hotels; a little bit of a difference in
taste. Where the president goes for gold and glitzy and throwing his name on everything, Sondland took historic buildings and redeveloped them,
brought them back to their historic splendor.
[11:10:00]
HERSZENHORN: But in fact, they came up through the same business and was someone very much key to this inquiry because he was in the Ukrainian
capital both before and after that crucial phone call between President Trump and President Zelensky.
ANDERSON: What was he doing there?
You've been working your sources and doing reporting on this.
HERSZENHORN: You heard your own report there. The three amigos, the Secretary of Energy, Volker and Sondland, tasked with this in addition to
their other duties, managing this relationship with Kiev.
One of the openings we know for Sondland was that liquefied natural gas is at the core of discussions between the White House and the E.U. in this
trade dispute and this project Gazprom, that big Russian energy company is building the pipeline, which the president has denounced, Sondland is a
part of this, criticize Germany.
And the president, remember, at one point exploded at a breakfast with Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, saying that this pipeline project
showed that Germany was essentially beholden to the Russians.
Now the Ukrainians also want to stop that project. So beginning with those gas discussions, we then see Sondland expand his reach into part of the
official delegation to the inaugural. We believe that he and Volker were trying to help navigate whatever it was that Giuliani was demanding in Kiev
of Zelensky after that phone call.
ANDERSON: Fascinating.
Joseph Moreno, what happens next in this impeachment process?
And what are the options now for both sides?
JOSEPH MORENO, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT PROSECUTOR. Well, Becky, look at the radically different strategy from the White House in just the course of
a few weeks. Two weeks ago the president said, I'll put everything on the table. You want the Zelensky transcript, here you go. You want the
whistleblower complaint, here you go
Well, I think perhaps based on the reaction he has gotten from the public these past few weeks, that strategy has changed 100 percent. And now it's
we're circling the wagons and going to make it as difficult as possible for you to get any more information to help you, the Democrats, build your case
against me.
So I think you're going to see continued foot-dragging from the White House, the State Department. They're going to be as difficult as possible
to let any testimony or documents or information flow back to Congress.
You're going to see now House Democrats will have to say, how hard are we going to fight for this information?
Are we going to go to court?
Are we going to issue subpoenas or are we going to say we're going to drop our hands; we're just charging you with obstruction of Congress and we're
going to move on with impeachment?
ANDERSON: Suzanne, finally -- thank you, Joseph.
Suzanne, here's what Sondland's attorney had to say about his client being blocked today. I'm using that word because I think it's the correct word
to use.
"Ambassador Sondland is profoundly disappointed that he will not be able to testify today. Ambassador Sondland traveled to Washington from Brussels in
order to prepare for his testimony and to be available to answer the committee's questions.
"Ambassador Sondland believes strongly that he acted at all times in the best interest of the United States and he stands ready to answer the
committee's questions fully and truthfully."
As we just wind this part of the show up, do we have any idea whether this testimony will be rescheduled at this point?
What happens next?
MALVEAUX: Well, there is another option. It's far from certain whether or not the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will take it. But the White House
saying the requirement for those to go forward, whether or not they're subpoenaed and to provide documents, would be to bring a full vote to the
full House next week, when members of Congress come back from recess, essentially putting everyone on notice.
It's not something Speaker Pelosi has been eager to do although she could do it, trying to save -- provide a little bit of political cover for
Democrats, who actually don't want to sign on to a full House vote of the impeachment inquiry.
But that could be her move. It's far from certain however if that would really clear the path for the White House and for the State Department to
cooperate. That's what they're putting on the table, that's what they're saying. But there is very little trust between these two sides that their
word is actually good.
ANDERSON: To all three of you, your analysis incredibly important, thank you so much for joining us.
As the impeachment gains steam in Washington, many experts predicted Mr. Trump could turn to foreign policy as a distraction. It's safe to say if
that was the plan, it hasn't really worked. Turkish tanks now are at the Syrian border, rocket launchers stationed and ready to go as allies in
Washington and abroad blast Mr. Trump for abandoning Kurdish forces in northern Syria.
Announcing on Sunday that the U.S. would withdraw troops and not stand in the way of Turkey's operations.
[11:15:00]
ANDERSON: Mr. Trump continuing to defend his decision to withdraw, saying the U.S. only had 50 soldiers remaining in that part of Syria and that the
U.S. is, quote, "helping Kurds financially and with weapons."
Let's get you to Iraq's Kurdistan region, where CNN's chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is standing by.
Mr. Trump continues to say he's not abandoned the Kurds. His relationship with Turkey is good. But with no U.S. support on the ground, how are these
assets, these Kurdish assets positioning themselves to defend themselves against Turkey?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Becky, they're deeply troubled by this sudden pivot, apparently, by
President Trump. They had counted on the support of the U.S. because they went through this at the beginning of the year, when President Trump said
he was going to withdraw all U.S. forces from Syria.
Then he came under a huge amount of pressure, both from Republicans and Democrats and internationally. And then that seemed to go away.
SO now there's an element of surprise that, once again, Syrian Kurdish forces, who have died by the thousands on the front lines fighting against
ISIS, the U.S.'s strongest ally on the ground, could once again be vulnerable to a Turkish military invasion. That could potentially open the
doors for a bloodbath.
As much as they're concerned, Becky, I think they're also confused. Yesterday it seemed all but given essentially that President Trump had
given President Erdogan of Turkey carte blanche to do what he wanted.
Today in these tweets, he seems to be rolling that back a little bit saying we're not abandoning the Kurds. We support the Kurds in terms of money and
in terms of weapons. If I deem with my infinite genius, however he phrased it, my infinite wisdom, that the Turks had done anything that's off limits,
he threatens that the U.S. will decimate Turkey economically. So the question then becomes, OK, so President Trump is saying he would try
to prevent the Turks from doing something very serious.
What is the red line?
At what point would the U.S. intervene to try to protect the Kurds?
You can imagine the confusion tonight along that vast strip, hundreds of miles of northern Syrian border with Turkey, as forces try to understand
what is coming down the pipeline, what President Erdogan has planned and what, if anything, President Trump will do to protect them after much
sacrifice and commitment.
ANDERSON: One Syrian Kurdish commander General Mazloum Kobani Abdi has praised those who have criticized this U.S. troop withdrawal, telling CNN,
"It will endanger all the work done during the past few years with regards fighting terrorism," adding that it would, and I quote him here, "give ISIS
the opportunity to attack prisons and camps to release some 12,000 terrorist prisoners held by us."
Have we gone past the tipping point on the return of ISIS at this point?
WARD: Well, this is the thing you have to take account when you're looking at the calculations that President Trump is making. In his mind, he says,
we've defeated ISIS, it's time to bring the troops home, I have always wanted to extricate from the Middle East, I've always promised this, so
let's do it.
The reality is, if U.S. troops leave, if Kurdish forces are then vulnerable to a military invasion from Turkey, those Kurdish forces are going to very
quickly abandon their stations guarding and protecting and keeping an eye on these prisons that are full of not just ISIS fighters but ISIS family
members, ISIS sympathizers.
And so you potentially have a situation, where all Kurdish forces are going to be summoned to the front line up along that border. And in the meantime
those prisons will be exceptionally vulnerable to prisoners escaping, to prisoners simply leaving all together. That has European officials also on
high alert. They're very disturbed and troubled by this potential eventuality as well.
So ISIS is not a problem that suddenly goes away just because they no longer have a de facto state and territory that they're holding. As long
as you have prisons that are filled with thousands and thousands of ISIS fighters and you have a power vacuum that could potentially allow them to
coalesce, reconstitute and thrive, then you still have a real threat of ISIS.
And the U.S., at least in the eyes of the rest of the world, should be taking some kind of a leadership role and ensuring that that does not
happen.
ANDERSON: Donald Trump says we're not the world's policemen. That's his position. Clarissa, thank you. Clarissa Ward is in Iraq's Kurdistan
region.
[11:20:00]
ANDERSON: Still to come, with Turkish forces preparing operations, it's not just fighters but also civilians at risk. The U.N. says they're
preparing for the worst. I'm going to speak to a U.N. humanitarian coordinator for Syria up next.
Plus a key figure in the impeachment inquiry against the U.S. president, Donald Trump, is blocked from testifying before Congress. We'll speak to a
Democratic lawmaker about the consequences of that action. That's up next.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. troops are pulling back from the Syrian-Turkish border, making way for a looming
Turkish invasion.
TRUMP: We defeated this group largely, defeated ISIS 100 percent.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The biggest lie being told by the administration that ISIS is defeated.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This is not just about the U.S. seemingly hanging out one of its most important allies in the region to
dry. This is about geopolitical concerns.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Even some of the president's staunchest defenders on most issues -- Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz -- they have
turned on him here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The United Nations says there is cause for, quote, "great concern" as Turkey readies itself for its long-planned operation in
northern Syria. The U.N. warns that civilians already suffering could get in the crossfire. It says in a statement, and I quote, "It is very
important that all parties exercise maximum restraint at this time."
It's warning that, quote, "Safe humanitarian access must be granted for the U.N. to carry out its critical work."
My next guest says we need to put the people first. Panos Moumtzis is the United Nations' humanitarian coordinator for Syria, joining me live from
Geneva.
Welcome to the show. You say the U.N. is preparing for the worst case.
What is the worst case scenario?
How is the U.N. preparing?
PANOS MOUMTZIS, U.N. REGIONAL HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR FOR THE SYRIA CRISIS: Well, we don't know what's going to happen exactly. We hope for
the best. We hope it will be a peaceful transition, that people will be put first and that we won't see any displacement.
[11:25:00]
MOUMTZIS: Now, in any situation, we also put in place a contingency plan to make sure we're ready to respond, should there be any further
displacement, should there be an escalation or a duration (ph). We want to make sure from a humanitarian point of view that we're ready.
It's not because we know something that other people don't know but that it is our duty to tell everybody, first of all, the protection of civilians,
the freedom of movement, access of humanitarian actors and for everybody to put people first, to think of the people.
There is about 1.7 million people in the northeastern part of Syria; on a monthly basis we have 700,000.
ANDERSON: Turkey has said it's not targeting Syrian Kurds. It says there will be no demographic reengineering.
Are you confident that Turkey is putting people first?
MOUMTZIS: Turkey so far has done the right thing. If we look, for example, Turkey's hosting more than 4 million refugees. This is the
largest refugee country in the world. Turkey is facilitating cross border assistance in the northwest from Turkey to Italy to 3 million people on a
monthly basis.
So we count all these positive examples so far and we're in full contact with the government of Turkey, with everybody, with actors on the ground,
reminding them, of course, of the international obligation and wanting to make sure that, whatever happens, takes care of people first.
ANDERSON: I want to move on to a discussion about the prospect for the al- Hol camp, for example, and the future for ISIS and its fighters, home to many of the wives and kids of killed and captured Islamic fighters. The
al-Hol camp is one of the largest in northern Syria. The U.N. itself has estimated its population is close to 70,000.
Earlier this year, my colleague, Arwa Damon, traveled there. I want our viewers just to see a snippet of her report. Stand by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's just visiting his friends here. His tent is somewhere else. And he says that his mom was
killed. His dad has been detained and it's just him and his siblings, the oldest of which is 16.
DAMON (voice-over): Children pay the price for the sins of their parents but, in turn, are preyed upon. There's only so much Kurdish officials can
do to contain the situation and there is a shocking lack of international involvement here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Yes, an awful situation. One Syrian Kurdish commander, sir, has told CNN that the U.S. troop withdrawal will give ISIS the opportunity to
attack prisons and release some of the 12,000 terrorist prisoners held by the group as well as their families in camps like al-Hol.
How concerned are you?
MOUMTZIS: We are concerned. We're concerned about the safety and security of our own staff, the humanitarian actors. And we have hundreds of staff
in this area but of course, very concerned about the people and the broader peace and stability in the area.
It's very likely that there are sleeper cells who are waiting for the opportunity to be able to emerge. So maintaining law and order and
security is critical for the safety, for the security. And this is not just about the northerneast (sic) part of Syria. This is a global issue.
It's about the rest of the world on the ground.
So the al-Hol camp, indeed, there is 70,000 people. There's a lot of foreign women and there's a lot of foreign children as well. And this is
where there is also responsibility of member states to take care back of the nationals. These children, a 5-year-old boy or girl that has lived
there has a parent or grandparent somewhere in a Western country and a nationality.
Countries need to also receive them back. We need to see solutions to move forward and of course safety and security to prevail.
ANDERSON: Well, you talk about these kids, many of whom have been orphaned.
What is the current narrative with regard whether European countries and others will be prepared in the future to take them back?
This is a really, really critical issue, isn't it?
MOUMTZIS: You know, these children are really innocent. A child is a child. Bottom line is that they need to be given a chance at life, a
chance at education, a chance at a future. The only solution for them, the best solution based of course on the determination of the best interest of
the child is to reunite them, find them with their families, with parents or grandparents or extended family back in those countries.
And this is where some countries have done the right thing, to take these children back to their countries. Several other countries, including
European ones, are refusing to do this so far. And a solution is needed for the children. Of course, to at least try to move them forward from
where they're stuck at the moment.
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: Panos, it's a pleasure having you in and the information and analysis is extremely important as we develop our reporting on this story.
Thank you, sir.
There's a lot more to come in this hour of CONNECT THE WORLD. In a dramatic turn, a second key figure in the Trump impeachment inquiry has
been blocked from testifying. We'll talk to a congressman that was set to quiz him. That's next.
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ANDERSON: We're getting a clearer picture of how the White House is directing its defense in what is a Democrat-led impeachment inquiry. CNN
has learned that the White House consulted with the State Department in its decision to keep Ambassador Gordon Sondland from testifying today.
Now this was a last-minute decision. And democrats running the inquiry were quite frankly furious. Sondland is considered a key witness to this
investigation. In fact, one of the committee chairs leading the impeachment probe came out a short time ago and revealed something we had
not heard before.
Adam Schiff says Sondland has text messages or emails on a personal device and that the State Department is withholding that information, something
Schiff says amounts to more evidence of obstruction by the Trump administration.
Well, the days of playing nice are done, a White House source has told CNN. Joining me now is a member of one of the House committees that was set to
interview Ambassador Sondland today, Trump's man in Brussels.
[11:35:00]
ANDERSON: And that is Democratic congressman Adriano Espaillat.
First off, sir, how did you find out the news that Sondland had been blocked by the White House?
And what was your initial reaction?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): I found out earlier this morning. My initial reaction was this is more of the same. This is really a massive
coverup operation by the White House and the State Department.
Sondland was critical to our investigation. We wanted to find out more about the texts between him and Volker. And he had actually prepared to
testify until he got instructions from the State Department and the White House that he should hold back.
So this is really -- further strengthens our position that the White House and the State Department are engaged in a cover up that could constitute to
be another article of obstruction of justice.
ANDERSON: Yes, you say that he was or is a key witness. Adam Schiff describing the committees' wanting to find out more about texts and
potential emails on personal devices.
Can you share some of the questions you wanted to pose to the ambassador and clarify specifically what is it that you wanted to hear?
ESPAILLAT: I don't want to go ahead and share what my questions may be. But I do tell you that, just like in the Watergate hearings, the tapes
became a critical part of that process.
This device and what is inside this device in terms of texts and emails could be critical to this investigation. And it will shed information for
the investigation and the American public, what all of this is really about.
I think the American public need to know what happened. They want to know what happened. This is an investigation that is deeply rooted in our
rights as a duly elected branch of government, the legislature to do, in Article I, Section 2, Clause v of the Constitution. And we want to go
forward and interview and interrogate these witnesses.
ANDERSON: Well, the American public have a right to know.
Are you convinced, sir, yet that Congress has a case against the U.S. president?
If so, what do you think the charge is or will be?
ESPAILLAT: Well, I am certainly convinced that we have the information that will lead to a complete investigation on this matter. And we'll send
the facts to the Judiciary Committee, who will then determine what kind of charges they'll develop against the president of the United States.
Clearly, you know, this is within our rights, our constitutional rights. We feel very strongly that the president has engaged in obstruction of
justice, that he has engaged in wrongdoing with the Ukraine, threatening to take away $481 million in aid to an ally.
That's critical to us in that region. Ukraine has been a long-standing ally of the United States for a long time. They have been really head-on
in opposition with Russia. So once more, the president is siding with Putin, he's denying military aid in exchange for an investigation into one
of his political opponents.
ANDERSON: Your position, sir.
Here is what Gordon Sondland's attorney had to say about the decision for him to not appear and testify.
"Ambassador Sondland is profoundly disappointed that he will not be able to testify today. Ambassador Sondland traveled to Washington from Brussels in
order to prepare for his testimony and to be available to answer the committee's questions.
"Ambassador Sondland believes strongly that he acted at all times in the best interest of the United States and he stands ready to answer the
committee's questions fully and truthfully."
What do you make of that statement, sir?
ESPAILLAT: Well, we're equally disappointed. It seems to me that Ambassador Sondland is being strong-armed by the administration, told
definitively that he must not testify, that he must not cooperate with this investigation.
And then again, this is part, very often as it happens in past impeachment proceedings, the coverup becomes an even greater crime than the crime
itself.
ANDERSON: Republicans, of course, have been largely silent about the impeachment inquiry. A handful of lawmakers from President Trump's side of
the fence are saying they want to get to the bottom of this. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): If there's legitimate information about corruption in American government, that's one thing. When it's focused on
somebody that's running in a presidential election, you know, literally it would be like, let's say, President Obama in 2015.
[11:40:00]
KINZINGER: Calling somebody and asking about what one of the Trump sons is doing so he can use it to discredit or whatever. We'd be outraged about
that so I'm just trying to be consistent, which is let's leave American domestic elections in the United States.
We're not a banana republic, where every empire can come in and make a change in our election. We're the United States of America. And we have
to put up a firewall from outside interference, no matter who.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: To be clear, the congressman doesn't think that this call is an impeachable offense. He does think, though, it is wrong. It's a rare
public call to press on with this inquiry from a Republican lawmaker. You must want to see more GOP members coming forward.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: You must want that. Is that going to happen?
ESPAILLAT: I think we will. Let me say this to you, different than the Russian investigation and the Mueller report, this is about not the
president as a candidate with his campaign team.
This is about the president of the United States now and his administration pulling the levers, pressuring people to investigate an opponent, to have a
foreign government investigate an opponent, using all the powers of his office to push for an investigation against one of his political opponents.
This is clearly, clearly severe.
I agree with Republican colleagues that we must push forward. There are other Republican senators that are now talking in the same light, governors
across the country. And the polls really show that a good number of Republicans want to get to the bottom of this. So we're looking to press
on.
ANDERSON: And Donald Trump clearly doesn't. He has described in a tweet earlier today as these committees being a "totally compromised kangaroo
court where Republican's (sic) rights have been taken away and true facts are not allowed out for the public."
Well, listen, while I've got you, I just want to speak to the other roiling story in Washington. That's the very late-night decision by Donald Trump
to pull troops from Northern Syria. Let's hear from Republican senator Lindsey. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I expect the American president to do what is in our national security interest. It's never in our national security
interest to abandon an ally who has helped us fight ISIS. It's never in our national security interest to create the conditions for the reemergence
of ISIS.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And Senator Graham is one of President Trump's strongest defenders in Congress.
At a time when we're seeing such partisan politics, such a divisive environment on the impeachment inquiry, what we have seen over the past 48
hours is bipartisan criticism of the president with regard to this decision on northern Syria.
Do you share that criticism?
Are you surprised by the support that you are getting from Republicans?
ESPAILLAT: I share that that outrage. I think this is a distraction, a distraction because I think this also plays into the impeachment
proceeding. He wants to distract us with this Syria issue.
But it's deadly because we leave the Kurds, which have been our traditional allies, wide open for Erdogan and his thugs to potentially even commit
genocide in the area. I wouldn't put it behind (sic) them, of course, creating the conditions for ISIS to reemerge in that region of the world.
This is clearly not in the best interest of the United States of America.
Again, the impeachment process is also about national security because of the role that Ukraine played in combating Russia. And, again, this
decision also goes contrary to our best national interest. So we're concerned and I share the sentiments of the senator.
ANDERSON: Congressman, it's a pleasure having you on. Thank you, sir.
ESPAILLAT: Thank you so much.
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD, folks. Coming up, a potential Supreme Court ruling in the States that could completely alter
the lives of LGBTQ citizens. I spoke with a member of Netflix's hugely successful "Queer Eye" cast about those rights and growing up gay in a
conservative home.
That interview up next, you won't want to miss that. (MUSIC PLAYING)
[11:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
ANDERSON: Well, Democrats' Chairmen Schiff, Engel and Cummings have announced they'll be issuing a subpoena to Ambassador Sondland for his
testimony and documents. This, of course, follows the news this morning that the State Department directed Sondland not to testify before Congress
in this impeachment inquiry. We'll get you more on this story as it develops, of course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): That was Jonathan Van Ness, a member of Netflix's "Queer Eye" cast, otherwise known as the Fab Five.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: He, along with his castmates, visited Capitol Hill in Washington earlier this year to discuss LGBTQ rights with lawmakers and today those
issues take center stage at the U.S. Supreme Court. Justices will hear arguments on whether it's legal to fire workers because of their sexual
orientation or gender identity.
Jonathan's cast member Tan France was just given the International Man of Style Award at the "GQ" Men of the Year event here in Abu Dhabi. I caught
up with him and discussed that visit -- he was on that visit with his cast members to the Hill -- the Equality Act and much more. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TAN FRANCE, FASHION DESIGNER AND TV PERSONALITY: This was the Equality Act. It's something that I have a voice for. I can use my voice. A lot
of people see the "Queer Eye" cast as representative of our community. Therefore, I want to use my voice to lend my support to what they're doing
on the Hill.
ANDERSON: Born and brought up in the U.K. but now living in the States. You grew up in a conservative Muslim household as I understand it. You say
the word "gay" was never used in your home.
How did you overcome that?
FRANCE: I hid it very well. But honestly, that wasn't my biggest fight. I've been very vocal about this. My biggest fight in the U.K. was being a
person of color. So being gay kind of fell by the wayside. I was too busy not being beaten up for my color.
Nobody cared that much at the time that I was gay. It wasn't until I was 16 I realized there's a real double whammy going on and I need to find a
way to get away from the aggression.
ANDERSON: You live in a country where people are being told by the leader of that country to go home.
Is he a racist?
FRANCE: If the leader of the country is telling people to go back home, yes, that's absolutely racism.
And do I feel like I should go back home?
I am home, just like any other person who lives in the U.S. and chooses to make it their home, I am home.
ANDERSON: Tell me about coming out.
FRANCE: I came out when I was 16 to most people in my life. And it was hard. It's hard for anybody who has to come out. But it was an honest
conversation. I wasn't willing to stay in the closet anymore. I was a very resolute, determined child. So I needed to tell people I wasn't
willing to live the life they expected of me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Do you feel uncomfortable traveling to a country for the UAE, for example?
FRANCE (voice-over): No, I think things are changing here. I understand the culture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCE: And I actually made a point of coming here. "GQ" Middle East invited me here.
[11:55:00]
FRANCE: I'm sure many people watching this will not be happy that I came here because they don't have the same rights as we do in the U.S. However,
it's by being visible in places like this that things change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Tell me about the show.
Where are you at?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCE: We just wrapped season 5. We have season 4.5 coming out in about 2.5 weeks, our Japanese season. We shot four episodes in Japan; they'll
come out in a couple weeks.
In my opinion, it's our best season.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCE (voice-over): Going to Japan, where they don't show emotion the way we do in the West, so it makes for an incredible show, formidable episodes,
stories you've never heard before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So there's nobody's listening?
(LAUGHTER)
FRANCE: I want to say they don't. They're not as tactile as we are. And that brings out emotion like I've never seen before.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Politics and TV in Technicolor in every way there. I'm Becky Anderson. That was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thank you for watching.
[12:00:00]
END
