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White House Scrambles to Slow Impeachment Push; Former Pompeo Top Aide Set to Testify to U.S. House Panels; Graham: I Blame Erdogan for The Catastrophe in Syria; Rivals Turn Up the Heat on Warren as She Surges in Polls; Winners and Losers in Fourth Face-Off of 2020 Hopefuls; U.K., EU Push for Deal Before Crunch Summit Thursday; Pence Dispatched to Turkey to Push for Syrian Ceasefire; LeBron James Attempts to Clear Up Hong Kong Controversy. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired October 16, 2019 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Hello, welcome. This is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for you, coming to you from our Middle East broadcasting hub

here in Abu Dhabi.

We begin this hour squarely focused on Washington, D.C. It is only Wednesday, but this week already shaping up to be absolutely key as another

senior official is being deposed on The Hill. Set to start any minute now.

Over at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, President Trump starting to feel the heat. CNN reporting the White House is increasingly frustrated at the speed

of this impeachment inquiry and has been unable to slow it down. We're expecting to hear from Donald Trump in the coming hours. He meets with the

Italian President at the White House.

As I said, a lot going on. Let's get you the latest on this impeachment probe happening any minute now. A former senior adviser to U.S. Secretary

of State Mike Pompeo is set to testify. Just last week, Michael McKinley quit his role as a Pompeo aide. Now he has just arrived on Capitol Hill.

And we will update you on what he has to say just as soon as we get that.

And we know Kurt Volker, the former special envoy to Ukraine is also on The Hill. We understand he's reviewing his previous testimony with his

attorney. That is according to Republican sources. Earlier this month, Volker told members of Congress about text messages that he exchanged with

Trump appointees about Rudy Giuliani, the President's personal lawyer.

Now this all comes after a State Department official testified that he was told to lie low after complaining that the President's personal lawyer,

Rudy Giuliani, repeatedly sought to undermine U.S. foreign policy in Ukraine. George Kent told that to lawmakers yesterday.

And tomorrow, all eyes will be on Gordon Sondland again. The U.S. ambassador to the European Union, a Trump donor and confidante to the

President. He will appear under subpoena this time after the White House blocked him from testifying last week.

We are tracking the latest on what is this fast-moving story. Lauren Fox on stakeout in the hallways of power in Capitol Hill -- on Capitol Hill right

now. Joe Johns at the White House itself. Lauren, we're only midway through the week. Already some pretty damning testimony from key witnesses. Are we

seeing the crumbling of the White House policy of stonewalling here?

LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, certainly, Becky. If you remember, the White House has said they were not going to cooperate.

And while they are not turning over documents from the Vice President, OMB or the Pentagon or Rudy Giuliani, the President's personal lawyer. These

committees are getting testimony from some key witnesses. Some of them current State Department officials. That's going to be the case tomorrow

for Gordon Sondland, the EU ambassador who will come before Capitol Hill before those three committees, foreign affairs, intelligence and oversight.

And you're right. They're hearing some explosive testimony about Rudy Giuliani's role abroad. How he was running the shadow foreign policy and as

State Department officials were raising concerns as we heard from George Kent yesterday, they were told to lie low -- Becky.

Lauren Fox is on The Hill. Joe joining us from the White House. Joe Johns, Rudy Giuliani, the man alleged to be the grenade at the center of this U.K.

controversy is sticking to the script. He is defying a House subpoena for information over his Ukraine ties. How significant is that? And how

important is what he might have to this inquiry?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, honestly, it was expected that he would say he wasn't going to cooperate and probably the

most important thing in that entire letter he sent up to The Hill was the last sentence where he said, look, I'm the President's attorney so I can

invoke attorney/client privilege, work product privilege, executive privilege. But the problem with that is that the law essentially says, if

you are alleged to have been involved in the commission of a crime, then generally the privileges don't apply.

[10:05:00]

So the question, of course, is whether people on Capitol Hill decide it's worth their time to go to courts to try to compel him to provide --

ANDERSON: Lindsey Graham is speaking on The Hill. Apologies, sir. Let's just have a listen to what Lindsey Graham has to say.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): -- Kurds and Arabs, about 60,000. Those people deserve our support. Isis will come back. They're not defeated. The

caliphate is destroyed but there are thousands of fighters. And the best bet for the United States is to have a Kurdish/U.S. partnership to continue

to keep ISIS at bay, keep our foot on their throat and to keep Iran out. If we force the Kurds to go with Assad it would be a nightmare for us and

eventually them. I talked to Mazloum last night -- the leader of the Kurdish military. He said he does not want to align with Assad. He wants a

working relationship with the United States to destroy ISIS. And the ISIS prisoners of still in jail, but if we continue to allow Turkey to dismember

Syria, the Kurds are going to have to make a choice between guarding the prisoners and defending their families. I know the choice they will make.

And allowing Russia to get a foothold into Syria and northeast Syria is a complete catastrophe for our national security interest. It can be reversed

but it's going to take Presidential leadership.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, at what point do you withdraw your support of the President?

ANDERSON: Well, that was Lindsey Graham clearly speaking on what is going on in Syria. And he said, Joe, that he blames President Erdogan for this

catastrophe. I'm putting you on the spot here. I don't know whether you heard what Lindsey Graham said there, but our viewers certainly did. Yes,

we're talking impeachment here. But it's a much wider sort of toxic cloud over the President, isn't there, with bipartisan criticism. It has to be

said, of his position with regard to the President. What do you make of what Lindsey Graham said?

JOHNS: Lindsey Graham initially was very angry about the President's position and what he did with regard to the Kurds, Turkey and Syria. And

now he's backed off a little bit because he says he's happy that the administration has decided to come with some sanctions through the Treasury

Department to try to compel Turkey to do what it would not do before.

However, the fact of the matter remains is that even though he has ceased his criticism, there are a number of Republicans on Capitol Hill in the

House and the Senate who have expressed alarm and deep concern about the administration's pulling back on military forces in Syria, in that area.

And that continues so much so that Lindsey Graham is supposed to be introducing a bill as early as tomorrow that would essentially make more

severe the sanctions that the United States administration has already put in place.

So it's clear that people on Capitol Hill want to have a say in this, and it's bipartisan, both Democrat and Republican, and that doesn't help a

President who is trying to get or rally or maintain unity of support among Republicans in the United States Senate where there would be a trial in the

event he ends up getting impeached -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Joe Johns is at the White House for you. Lauren Fox was on Capitol Hill.

Well, U.S. foreign policy actually received a short shrift last night, even though, of course, it dominates the headlines due to the chaotic,

incoherent policies of President Trump -- as one of our opinion writers has written today on CNN.com. Which have triggered this impeachment inquiry in

the U.S. and, of course, continued to cause turmoil in the Middle East.

Impeachment loomed large over the fourth Democratic Presidential debate. It was the first debate since House Democrats launched their impeachment

inquiry against President Trump. And Joe Biden who is deeply entangled in that investigation took his share of the jabs being thrown on stage, but

this time overall, the target, I have to say, seems to have shifted to Elizabeth Warren. She is the new perceived front-runner in this race, and

she was clearly under attack. Especially from candidates perceived to be less left leaning. Our politics correspondent MJ Lee brings us all the

highlights from the battleground state of Ohio.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senator Elizabeth Warren under attack at Tuesday's Democratic debate, pressed on how she'd pay for

Bernie Sanders' "Medicare for All" plan.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me be clear on this. Costs will go up for the wealthy. They'll go up for big corporations.

[10:10:00]

I will not sign a bill into law that does not lower costs for middle class families.

LEE: Warren's moderate rivals unsatisfied with her answer.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your signature, Senator, is to have a plan for everything, except this.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D- MN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I appreciate Elizabeth's work, but again, the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is

something that you can actually get done.

LEE: Senator Amy Klobuchar also criticizing Warren's wealth tax plan.

KLOBUCHAR: I want to give a reality check here to Elizabeth because no one on this stage wants to protect billionaires. Not even the billionaire wants

to protect billionaires. We just have different approaches.

LEE: The Massachusetts Senator fighting back.

WARREN: I think as Democrats, we are going to succeed when we dream big and fight hard. Not when we dream small and quit before we get started.

LEE: Warren not the only candidate on stage on their heels. Former Vice President Joe Biden defending his son Hunter's work in Ukraine in the wake

of the scandal rocking Washington.

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My son did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. I carried out the policy of the United States government

in rooting out corruption in Ukraine.

LEE: Biden explaining why he believes he's Trump's target.

BIDEN: He's going after me because he knows, if I get the nomination, I will beat him like a drum.

LEE: Senator Sanders returning to the campaign after a heart attack, ready to move on from questions about his health.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Senator Sanders, I want to start with you.

We're moving on, Senator, I'm sorry.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm healthy, I'm feeling great, but I would like to respond to that question.

LEE: On gun control, Mayor Buttigieg implying former Congressman Beto O'Rourke's mand tor I buyback proposal is unachievable.

BETO O'ROURKE, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot wait for purity tests. We have to just get something done.

BUTTIGIEG: This is not a purity test. This is a country that loses 40,000 of our fellow Americans every year to gun violence. This is a crisis. We've

got do something about it.

O'ROURKE: I don't need lessons from you on courage, political or personal. Everyone on this stage is determined to get something done.

LEE: Buttigieg also clashing with fellow combat veteran Tulsi Gabbard over President Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria.

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What you're saying, Mayor Pete, is that you would continue to support having U.S. troops in Syria for

an indefinite period of time to continue this regime change war.

BUTTIGIEG: What we were doing in Syria was keeping our word. This President has betrayed American values. Our credibility is tattered.

LEE: One topic all the candidates can agree on --

ANDREW YANG, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to impeach this President.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I support impeachment.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't really think this impeachment process is going to take very long because as a former

prosecutor, I know a confession when I see it.

TOM STEYER, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every candidate here is more decent, more coherent and more patriotic than the criminal in the White

House.

LEE: Senator Cory Booker asking the field to focus on their collective goal -- defeating the President.

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tearing each other down because we have a different plan, to me, is unacceptable. I have seen this

script before. It didn't work in 2016, and it will be disaster for us in 2020.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: MJ Lee reporting there. Well I want to bring in our senior political analyst John Avlon. And, John, you were tweeting your thoughts

during the debate last night. You saw some surprises there. What are your main takeaways from what is this fourth debate which is a year and change

away from the U.S. election in 2020?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That is a fact. We're still more than a year away. But, look, I thought this debate gave us heat and light.

There was a lot of policy substance in there. And real deep divisions inside the Democratic Party laying to bare. Elizabeth Warren with the big

mull heading into this debate. She and Biden really are the only two at the top of the pack.

But the centrists really grew some spine last night. Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar really pushing back on Warren and saying, look, it's great that

you want this "Medicare for All" plan. How are you going to pay for it? Because if woke-nomics is broke-nomics, it's not going to work for a

general election let alone when it actually comes to the work of governing. And those are absolutely credible questions.

But you have a party that's very divided. The Democratic Party is moving left, further than the electorate. And that's Donald's hope best and some

would say arguably only hope for re-election. Because if he can credibly paint the Democrats as proto socialists. So a lot of the fault lines struck

really bare.

Another debate I found fascinating was between the two vets on the stage, Pete Buttigieg and Tulsi Gabbard. The first two millennial candidates we've

had run for President. And it was fascinating to see them take diametrically opposite approaches to the question of Syria. Let's take a

listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:15:00]

GABBARD: The slaughter of the Kurds being done by Turkey is yet another negative consequence of the regime change war that we've been waging in

Syria.

BUTTIGIEG: Respectfully Congresswoman, I think that is dead wrong. The slaughter going on in Syria is not a consequence of American presence. It's

a consequence of a withdrawal and a betrayal by this President of American allies and American values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: So what was so fascinating about that to me, Becky, was that here you had these two millennial vets debating on opposite sides. Tulsi

Gabbard, Congresswoman from Hawaii seen as -- visited Assad in the past. Seeing as not being critical of that regime and favoring sort of a

withdrawal of American force from the Middle East. Pete Buttigieg representing really more of a centrist consensus about a constancy of

American strategy that straddles the center right and center left but notably not Donald Trump or the far left. So fascinating stuff.

ANDERSON: U.S. foreign policy received relatively short shrift last night. I mean, you've just alluded to a compelling exchange there. And it

dominates headlines at present. Arguably, the topic did give Joe Biden his one shining moment. Let's just have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We have an erratic, crazy President who knows not a damn thing about foreign policy and operates out of fear for his own re-election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: How did he get on?

AVLON: Look, I think Biden actually had a relatively good debate. He has been rocky at times in the past. There were moments when he stumbled. He is

not the oldest person on the stage, but he is the second oldest. That said, he's the most experienced, and I think he was very forceful and clear last

night. Whether trying to answer questions about Hunter Biden -- sort of an elephant in the room -- or really as you heard there calling out President

Trump's foreign policy. It's not often in American history where you have a candidate calling the incumbent President crazy and coming across as the

one representing stability in American strategy.

ANDERSON: Our colleague Julian Zelizer had this to say, John. The debates are too focused on the issues of the week rather than the issues of our

time. And he said this reflects a media bias towards the now. Future debates, he says, must ask about long-term problems, immigration,

presidential power, internationalism, climate change, economic inequality and racism. What's your take on that?

AVLON: Look, I mean, I think clearly the media, almost by definition, the news media has a bias toward now. There is a conflict bias more than the

alleged liberal or conservative bias. That said, all the issues that Julian pointed out, have either been highlighted in past debates or have been the

subject of night-long town halls here on CNN and other places.

I do think there could have been and should have been a climate change question given the news. Could and should have been a question about China.

I'd like to see questions about fiscal discipline and dealing with deficit and the debt. But as long as three hours is, you have got 12 candidates to

cycle through. There are always going to be would of, could of, should of. I do think we want to pull the aperture back as much as possible but you

also want to be on the news because that's what people want to hear. How does a President react, a would-be President react in realtime to the

challenges coming across their desk.

ANDERSON: Yes, that's a fascinating point. Thank you for that. It may feel like a long way away, believe me, it isn't. We are pretty much a year out.

We will see more of these candidates, these contenders for Democratic candidate as we move on through the weeks and months ahead. John, it's

always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

AVLON: Thank you.

ANDERSON: Still ahead -- the U.S. Vice President will soon head to Ankara to push for a Syrian cease-fire from Turkey's President. The odds, though,

are not in his favor. We will explain why after this.

Plus -- Britain and the EU race to reach a Brexit deal before what is a crunch EU summit tomorrow, Thursday. We'll head to Brussels and London for

you.

[10:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: We are fast approaching another key moment in what is this Brexit process. The soon ambassadors from the 27 EU states due to be briefed on

the state of negotiations with the U.K. Which are ongoing as both sides rush to strike a deal before a crunch two-day summit in Brussels this week,

Thursday.

If no deal is reached, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson could be forced to seek an extension. Despite saying he'd rather be dead in a ditch than

ask for one. We are, of course, covering this from every angle. In a moment we'll hear from Hadas Gold who is in London for you with the perspective

there. First though to Melissa Bell who joins us from Brussels. Melissa, I see the EU flag waving behind you, or the flags, waving good-bye to the

U.K. perhaps. What are the messages coming from Europe this hour?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well the question of when that is going to happen, is what Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council said a

short while ago speaking to British television, Becky. That in the next seven to eight hours, we should have an idea of when Brexit will happen. Of

course, there is so much that needs to happen in the meantime.

I think really what Europeans are waiting to hear in the European Union as it prepares for this crucial summit tomorrow are what concrete proposals

and, of course, concessions are going to come from the British side in their search for a way out of the EU with a deal. Now for the Europeans,

that has always meant the protection of the integrity of the single market and ensuring that even if Boris Johnson is determined to ensure that the

United Kingdom re-established its relationship to the Customs Union as a whole that it is willing to make the necessary concessions in order for

that to happen to satisfy the European red lines.

Now Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron, two of the key figures of course that will be attending the summit tomorrow are in Toulouse right now

meeting together. On the table a number of different. They will of course also be talking about Brexit. But really the anticipation here, the

expectation here is that those -- that legal framework, the intentions, as they were described yesterday by Michel Barnier, the chief EU negotiator,

are turned into concrete legal solutions, proposals by the United Kingdom. The ball, therefore, once again, Becky, very much in London's court.

ANDERSON: What's so important to Europe, Melissa, that the Britain's exit comes with costs rather than benefits, right? They want to maintain the

integrity of this bloc. They do not want this exit to look easy for Britain. Otherwise, others are going to want the same, right?

BELL: I think that's definitely been an undercurrent of so much that we've heard from some of the arch Europeans like Emmanuel Macron over the course

of last month. And then there is more technically the question of how Boris Johnson can achieve his ambition of renegotiating Northern Ireland's

relationship with the Customs Union without bringing in those border checks along the Irish border. I mean, the question in a sense of all those

parameters that have to be considered and all those conditions that have to be met are the very same that faced Theresa May.

[10:25:00]

The question is, how he will manage to achieve that getting it past his Democratic Unionist partners, his Brexiteers in his own party and satisfy

those conditions of the European Union. For the time being, we just don't have the answer to that question -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes, and he needs an agreement from Europe first in order to be able to take something to lawmakers in the U.K. All right. Hadas, as the

clock ticks down to October the 31st, if it gets an agreement from Europe, what chance does the British Prime Minister gets the support of the U.K.

Parliament at this point?

HADAS GOLD, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: I'm sure there's a lot of people taking out their notepads trying to scratch out exactly where the votes would

fall. We just witnessed the U.K. cabinet member starting to leave Number 10. They just finished a cabinet meeting. Lasted about less than an hour.

It was actually pushed up a few hours. It was supposed to be later in the day. Clearly a lot of moving parts here. Just today, things seem to be

moving minute by minute in different directions. Journalists have been asking the cabinet ministers as they walk out, is there a deal? Are you

happy? How are things going? Only one so far has answered.

The Trade Secretary, Liz Truss, said that everything seems very positive right now. She is all smiles but it's not clear there are smiles all

around. One of the biggest questions, Becky, about whether a potential deal would get through Parliament lays in the hands of the Northern Ireland

party -- the DUP -- and whether they're happy with the deal. It is so important because if they are not happy with whatever agreements happen in

terms of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland if their support falls away, then likely the support of other more hard right

Brexiteers in Parliament fall away as well. And it's unlikely that Boris Johnson would have the majority to get that deal through Parliament.

Now according to that Ben bill that passed a few weeks ago, if Boris Johnson cannot get a deal through Parliament, he must ask for an extension

from the EU and we heard from the Brexit secretary just this morning confirming that they'll ask for that extension if they don't get that deal

through Parliament.

ANDERSON: Hadas, Melissa, thank you.

To a story now of a family whose son's death has driven a wedge between Britain and the United States. The Dunns flew into Washington where they

met President Trump. They wanted to discuss the case of Harry, a teenager who had died in a road crash in Britain that involved the wife of a U.S.

diplomat. A teenager who was their son. The woman in question, Anne Sacoolas, then fled the U.K. under diplomatic immunity. According to the

family spokesperson, President Trump had a surprise for them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADD SEIGER, DUNN FAMILY SPOKESMAN: They said that Anne Sacoolas I think was in the next room and was ready to meet. And that did take us by

surprise because we had resolved that's not something we were prepared to do at this moment. This family still is emotionally shut down, and that, as

you can all imagine was potentially a difficult meeting. So to hold it in the White House without therapists or mediators around us, I thought -- so

we decline declined that offer. But again, I think, you know, at least they're trying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well the Dunns' spokesman later told CNN they felt the President was only doing it for himself. On Monday, I spoke with Harry Dunn's mother.

Have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLOTTE CHARLES, HARRY DUNN'S MOTHER: I promised him that night after he died, then that's what we're going to do. We will do everything we possibly

can to bring justice for Harry and then we'll work on getting change for making sure it doesn't -- that no other family has to go through what we're

going through now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Harry Dunn's mother there.

Coming up -- Turkey's President will soon meet with the U.S. delegation pushing for a Syrian cease-fire. But what are the chances of that actually

happening? We'll discuss that with our reporters on the ground up next.

[10:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: It's 6:30 p.m. in Abu Dhabi. This is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson, bringing you the global stories that count.

In just a few hours, a U.S. delegation led by Vice President Mike Pence will travel to Ankara to meet with Turkey's leader and push for a Syrian

cease-fire. But President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says a cease-fire will never happen. Meanwhile, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo trying to deflect the

blame for the escalating situation in Syria to Mr. Erdogan. Saying, he has, quote, created enormous risk in the region.

Remember it was the American President who paved the way for this military offensive in the first place. Let's bring in CNN's Arwa Damon at the

Turkish border. And our Jomana Karadsheh who is in the Turkish capital. And I'll start with you, Jo. Will he, or won't he -- and I'm talking about the

Turkish President here -- meet this U.S. delegation?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Becky, there was a lot of confusion earlier in the day. Some news reports coming out saying that

President Erdogan was not going to meet with the U.S. Vice President and perhaps some of that confusion is that you've got an advance delegation

that's arrived today and that is the national security adviser, Robert O'Brien, who is meeting with a number of Turkish officials, including the

foreign minister. And since then we've heard clarification from the Turkish presidency saying that President Erdogan will, indeed, be meeting with Vice

President Mike Pence and the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tomorrow, on Thursday.

Of course, the big question, Becky, is what they're going to be able to achieve in this very critical meeting when you have both sides coming here

from two very different and opposing sides. You've got the U.S. saying that they're coming in. They want to negotiate an immediate cease-fire. And

Turkey has made it clear repeatedly, just a few hours ago. We heard that again from President Erdogan saying they will not be negotiating with what

they describe as a terrorist organization. They say their operation will only stop once the Kurdish fighters pull out of this area, that safe zone

that Turkey is trying to achieve, that 30 to 35 kilometers inside Syria.

So it's very difficult to see how they're going to agree. Of course, this is a negotiation. Everyone is going to come in playing the strong hand

here. But also what's difficult to see, Becky, is what leverage does the United States have left here other than sanctions.

ANDERSON: I want to get to Arwa. A defiant President Erdogan dismissing calls for a cease-fire saying he's not worried about U.S. sanctions. Does

he consider himself in a significant position of strength at this point?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, we need to look at the way that President Erdogan has reacted to previous threats by

the U.S. and previous strong-arm attempts by the U.S. This isn't the first time that Turkey has been sanctioned by the Trump administration. And when

it took place about a year ago, it tanked the lira, but that was over Turkey's detention of a U.S. pastor.

Turkey did not necessarily afterwards significantly move to alter its behavior. You had all sorts of threats being leveled at Turkey, if it was

going to go ahead with the purchase of the Russian S-400. Turkey went ahead with it anyways.

[10:35:00]

This is a President who is very determined to fulfill his promise to his population, irrespective of the cost. And President Erdogan's pledge when

they started this was to create this so-called safe zone inside Turkey. And, remember, the U.S., other than being able to threaten -- as Jomana was

mentioning -- sanctions, doesn't have much leverage because they effectively -- America effectively sidelined itself when it comes to

negotiating what's going to be happening inside the Syrian battlefield when they withdrew their forces initially from the border area. And then

announced they would be withdrawing from northern Syria entirely.

The cease-fire, if and when it does take place, negotiations as to what's going to be happening along this border area and presumably in other parts

of Syria as well, are negotiations that are going to most likely be happening between the Kurds with whom Russia has a relationship, America

not anymore.

The Syrian regime which, as we know, is strongly backed by Russia and Turkey who maintains communication and a close relationship with Moscow. So

as we've been reporting, and as experts have been telling us, right now it's Russia that is both the playmaker and the kingmaker when it comes to

Syria, not the United States.

ANDERSON: Fascinating line from Mike Pompeo that we've just got into CNN. In defending Donald Trump's decision, quote, in the moment, end quote, to

move U.S. troops out of Syria ahead of this Turkish move.

He said about Donald Trump, my experience with the President is that he makes decisions and then absorbs data and facts. Evaluates situations and

if we need to adjust our policy to achieve our goals.

And I want to just go back and underline what he said. And then absorbs data and facts after he's made decisions. And I guess that's, you know,

therein lies perhaps one of the problems with this U.S. administration with regard to other leaders around the world. These whiplash decisions put them

in a position of vulnerability going forward.

DAMON: Yes, and, look, Becky, while I answer that question, I actually want to zoom in to what's happening on the border in Ras al-Ayn, behind us.

Because while on the one hand you have a President, President Trump who is basically creating policy over Twitter. When those policies unfold on the

ground, that is the result and this shot, mind you, is from a distance.

What's happening inside Ras al-Ayn is a battle zone. Where we are hearing reports there are still civilians trapped inside and we have seen the

images. We all know what war looks like. And for the civilian populations, this is not a game. No one who you talk to inside a war zone is willing to

accept or can even begin to understand how these types of decisions that literally destroy their lives, tear apart their families can be made in

such a seemingly blase manner.

And that's why it's so shocking, I think, to so many who are watching American policy right now which, frankly, is so all over the place, it can

barely be called a policy, because of the impact it has on their lives. And it's very hard to understand. First, from a human perspective, when it

comes to the population that are living through the repercussions of these policies, how it is that they can be done with such disregard for human

life.

And then on the bigger political scale, every government, every entity that's trying to interact with America doesn't know if they should be

placing their right foot forward, their left foot forward or exactly how they're supposed to act or react. All of which makes for a very combustible

and very dangerous situations.

ANDERSON: Arwa, I'm just showing our viewers, as you and I speak, Russian and Syrian national flags decorating military vehicles across that border

behind you. As we consider these images, how significant is this sight?

DAMON: Very. Look. This part of northern Syria was, up until the last 48 hours, give or take, enjoying relative autonomy. The Kurds had their own

system of sort of self-governance. Interestingly, they constantly maintained a relationship with Damascus and there was a small Syrian army

base that was in Qamishli.

[10:40:00]

But there's also another aspect in all of this, Becky, that we haven't begun discussing. And that is, what does it really mean to have the regime

of Bashar al Assad and the Russians controlling some of these towns in northern Syria. Remember the regime's history. Remember why areas rebelled

against the regime. Right now, as we're talking, there are a number of activists, a number of individuals inside Syria, Becky, who are terrified

that once their areas go back under regime control, they're going to end up detained or disappeared.

ANDERSON: Arwa Damon on the Turkish/Syrian border. Arwa, thank you.

We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: You're back with us. It is just after 20 to 7:00.

LeBron James faced a lot of criticism for saying the Houston Rocket's GM, a man called Daryl Morey, was misinformed when he tweeted support for the

protesters in Hong Kong. Well he has since spoken again, backtracking his previous statement a bit and says he's just ready to move on from the

controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEBRON JAMES, PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER: It's a tough situation that we're all in right now. As an association, us as athletes, owners, GMs,

whatever, so forth. And I think, you know, when the issue comes up if you feel passionate about it or feel like it's something you want to talk

about, then so be it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Rhiannon Jones is in the house -- Rhiannon.

RHIANNON JONES, WORLD SPORT: Yes, from one fallout to another, Becky, we bring you the latest following Monday's disgusting racist abuse targeted at

England players in Bulgaria.

ANDERSON: Good stuff. That's after the break. Stay with us, folks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

(WORLD SPORT)

[10:59:22]

JONES: -- Becky, you were asking, put you on the spot here. Messi or Ronaldo?

ANDERSON: Messi. For sure.

JONES: Oh.

ANDERSON: For sure. I'm just wondering whether there are two little Messis there who could one day be Golden Boot winners as well. What do you?

JONES: Absolutely.

ANDERSON: Ronaldo or Messi?

JONES: Ronaldo.

ANDERSON: There you go. How about you, viewers? We'll take your votes at Becky CNN.

Up next, Donald Trump making plenty of news this hour speaking on Syria and an awful lot more. We'll get you to that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END