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Iraq's Prime Minister Is Begging Anti-Government Protesters To Return To Normal Life Saying The Unrest Is Costing The Economy Billions; Several Big Developments In The Impeachment Inquiry This Week; A Thick Blanket Of Toxic Smog Is Causing Chaos In The Indian Capital Of New Delhi. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired November 04, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:21]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Iraq's Prime Minister is begging anti-government protesters to return to normal life saying the unrest is costing the
economy billions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Several big developments in the impeachment inquiry this week. The witness list for today appears to have gone from four to
zero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's an impeachment scam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, this hour we speak to the former Iraqi Prime Minister, Haider al-Abadi on the deadly protest
rocking his country and what he believes needs to happen next.
And an exclusive interview with Staffan de Mistura until last year, the longest serving U.N. Envoy for Syria since the Civil War. There began that
conversation as historic talks on the country's political future is set to kick off in Geneva.
A very warm welcome to what is CORRECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson live from Abu Dhabi. It is seven o'clock in the evening here, in fact it
is eight o'clock in the evening here and we start with the biggest crisis in Iraq in years.
Thousands of protesters continue to gather in what is the largest wave of anti-government demonstrations for decades, but they are facing violence.
Police fired teargas at crowds today right near the state TV headquarters. There are unconfirmed reports of casualties in clashes between security
forces and protesters.
Instead of simply accusing the government of graft, many Iraqis now blaming an outsider. They tried to storm the Iranian consulate in Karbala last
night. A look then at where things stand.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON (voice over): Burning tires and chanting "Iran out Karbala remains free," a crowd of angry Iraqis assembling in front of the Iranian
consulate in the holy city of Karbala late on Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The Iranians and the parties affiliated with Iran harm us. We came to pull down the Iranian flag and
lift the Iraqi flag instead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice over): Hundreds of thousands of people demonstrating up and down the length of Iraq since early October.
What started as a protest against corruption and the post war political system has now morphed into anger against foreign influence. The
government responding with a heavy hand.
More than 250 have been killed and thousands have been injured since these protests began. Iraqis say they have had enough. The economy is failing.
There is no reliable electricity. Unemployment is skyrocketing, and corruption is a fact of life.
And what's really infuriating protesters is that Iraq floats on an ocean of oil, and yet it is impossible to get a clean glass of water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I'm demonstrating to take back my rights. The politicians don't have honor and generosity. If they have
had honor and generosity, they would stand down from power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice over): People pointing their fingers directly at the political elite saying it is time for you to go.
And then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARHAM SALIH, IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): Our brother, the Prime Minister, has announced that he would resign, asking the political blocs to
find an acceptable alternative. This is in light of the commitment in the constitutional and legal context to prevent a constitutional vacuum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice over): President Barham Salih addressed the public announcing Prime Minister Adil Abdul Mahdi has agreed to resign except he
hasn't. And the anger on the streets -- continues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, does he stay or does he go? And what is next for the country? The former Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi for you on CONNECT THE
WORLD this hour, so do stay with us for that.
But the White House putting up serious resistance against what is this Democrat-led Impeachment Inquiry. President Trump is demanding the
journalists reveal the whistleblower's identity while a source says all four White House officials scheduled to testify on Monday are no longer
planning to show up and there are doubts about others he are set for depositions later this week.
Suzanne Malveaux is live from Capitol Hill. Who was set to speak? Why aren't they speaking? What happens next at this point?
[11:05:04]
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: So, Becky we actually saw just recently the House Intelligence Chair Adam Schiff in that secure location.
There are some coming and going from Committee members, but as far as those who are testifying, you're absolutely right, there are no shows.
There are four key witnesses who were all in subpoena, they're defying the subpoena. Some are saying that this is executive privilege, claiming that;
others were saying they demand their White House attorneys be present inside of the room. Those four individuals -- Robert Blair, senior adviser
to Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney; john Eisenberg, he is the top legal adviser at the National Security Council; Michael Ellis, the deputy legal
adviser at the N.S.C., as well as Brian McCormack, the Office of Management and Budget.
Two key witnesses, John Eisenberg, as you know, the top legal guy at the N.S.C. comes up in numerous testimony. Fiona Hill, President Trump's a top
Russia adviser, as well as Colonel Alexander Vindman. He is the Ukraine expert at the N.S.C., both of them, telling Eisenberg that they're very
concerned about President Trump's phone call with the Ukrainian President. He apparently tells Vindman to drop it, not to discuss this call.
He is also mentioned as well as the person who very likely made the decision to hide this call in this kind of classified server, if you will,
what was he trying to hide? And for what purpose?
The other person Robert Blair, very close to the Acting Chief of Staff, Mick Mulvaney, a top adviser, he is another person who listened in on the
call itself, so of course, they'd want to get his perspective.
He was also a former official at the Office of Management and Budget, so he would have some indication as to why and how the aid to Ukraine was being
delayed.
Now, Becky, having said all of this, Democrats are putting on a good face here. House Democrats say that they believe they already have the evidence
that's necessary that many different people have corroborated the main story that they need to move this forward to push it into the public domain
for the public testimony to happen in the weeks to come to go ahead and move forward with Articles of Impeachment -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Suzanne Malveaux is on Capitol Hill for you folks. Suzanne, thank you for that.
Well, as the Trump administration prepares for those public hearings, traditional U.S. allies angered by the White House asking for help to
discredit the U.S. Intelligence Community and the infamous Mueller report.
British Intelligence officials reportedly shocked that the President wants them to investigate that probe of Russian interference in the last
presidential election. CNN's Nic Robertson explains.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Boris, it's only my opinion.
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, I am not going to --
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice over): Behind the smiles, there's tension in the special relationship. President Trump
wants Boris Johnson to investigate his political opponents, figure out if Mueller and others tried to smear him a day after his controversial call
with the Ukrainian President in July, and just two days after Johnson became Prime Minister, Trump called him.
Now, Parliament wants details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN BRADSHAW, BRITISH MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, LABOUR PARTY: Did the Prime Minister, as today's "Times" reports, receive a request from President
Trump for help in trying to discredit the Mueller report?
DOMINIC RAAB, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: The Prime Minister is not going to comment on the discussions with President Trump that were held in
private, but I can -- I can give an assurance that of course, neither the Prime Minister or his then -- was the Foreign Secretary nor any member of
this government would collude in the way that he described.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON (on camera): Both the White House and Downing Street published brief notes on that conversation. Neither made any mention of the
investigation that Trump is demanding.
ROBERTSON (voice over): Days after the Trump-Johnson call, Attorney General William Barr was in London for a meeting on intelligence
cooperation and moving Trump's investigation forward.
Veteran U.K. diplomatic journalist Kim Sengupta says his British sources were shocked at the requests coming from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM SENGUPTA, VETERAN U.K. DIPLOMATIC JOURNALIST: The way that began to emerge in their eyes was that this was the U.S. government asking for
information not about the Russians, not about the Chinese, not even about the French, you know, it's about their own Intelligence Services.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON (voice over): Barr has also been to Australia and Italy in what is now a criminal investigation into the origins of the Trump-Russia
investigation, and Intelligence it used from overseas. The Italians had nothing to offer Barr.
On his agenda, likely, the role of this Maltese academic, Joseph Mifsud who vanished two years ago. Mifsud told acquaintances that the Russians had
dirt on Hillary Clinton. One of those acquaintances, George Papadopoulos relayed Mifsud's claim to an Australian diplomat, Alexander Downer in
London.
[11:10:12]
ROBERTSON: And then there's the dossier written by a former U.K. Intelligence officer, Christopher Steele.
ROBERTSON (on camera): Steele worked at this London address. He compiled a dossier during the 2016 elections, suggesting Trump was vulnerable to
Kremlin blackmail. It was his dossier that helped initiate the Mueller inquiry.
ROBERTSON (voice over): Sengupta's sources understand the London focus, but worry about the implications.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENGUPTA: The apprehension, the impression I got was apprehension, it was that they may get drawn into or they are getting drawn into internal
American politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON (voice over): President Trump's obsession with discrediting Mueller could cost America the trust of its allies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson joining me now from London with more. How would you describe the U.S.-U.K. relationship at present? And how difficult a
spot does this put the British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson at this point?
ROBERTSON: Well, I think the starting point for this conversation, Becky has to be the fact that the U.K. is about to go into general elections in
38 days from now. And that, of course, amplifies any relationship that could look negative for the Prime Minister.
So he has a relationship. He has a friendship with President Trump. The leader of the opposition party is castigating the Prime Minister and using
President Trump and the relationship between Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister and President Trump as an issue over which to sort of electorally
hit Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, so you have that issue.
You have the fact that President Trump called the sort of the right-wing Brexit Party leader, Nigel Farage, last week at his phone in radio show and
suggested that Farage team up with Boris Johnson, something Johnson has rejected. Certainly, Johnson recognizes the toxicity with which many
people in Britain view the U.S. President.
So when you have something like this, that puts Britain's Intelligence services and potentially others in a difficult position, it creates
difficulty for the Prime Minister in any level of association he has with the United States. And that association is typically cast as the special
relationship, and he is making a big deal about how he can have an improved trade relationship with the United States.
It's complicated, but the stakes really go up at a time of an election because it might cost the Prime Minister a few votes here and a few votes
there and that could add up to less than a majority.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is in London. Always a pleasure. Nic, thank you. Nic's analysis, important for you all there.
Outrage isn't going away. Thousands of Iraqis taking to the streets for another week to hear what the government there should do. The former Prime
Minister of Iraq joins me up next. Do stay with us for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:16:59]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. One of our top stories this hour, the congressional impeachment probe that is focusing
on the withholding of U.S. military aid to Ukraine. That aid is the most important backing against the offensive by Russian backed separatists
there.
CNN's Clarissa Ward now takes us to the forgotten frontline in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On the front line of Ukraine's war with Russia, conditions are basic, and the enemy is near.
This position, just 600 yards from Russian-backed separatists, soldiers stand guard in dirt trenches reminiscent of the First World War.
Commander Pavel Sergeevich tells us one of his men was shot dead by a sniper 10 days ago. He says Ukraine needs all the help it can get.
WARD (on camera): So he is saying that when he heard the news that President Trump had frozen the military aid, he was unhappy because he says
America is our most important -- our strongest ally.
WARD (voice over): That aid was released in September, the temporary freeze left to chill. The nearest village Shyrokyne used to be a popular
seaside resort. Now, there are no people left. Just devastation. Even the church was hit. In war, nothing is sacred.
WARD (on camera): After five long years, the world's attention has basically moved on from Ukraine, but the war here is not over yet. And
Ukraine is still very much dependent on the support of the U.S.
WARD (voice over): Ukrainian Marine Aleksandr shows us what is left of the local school. It was destroyed by Russian artillery at the start of the
war.
It will be 10 years before people can come back, he says. All of this territory needs to be demined. But that process can't even begin until the
fighting stops.
WARD (on camera): Our guide has asked us now to put on our helmets because apparently, the separatists have actually been using drones to drop
ordinance on some of the soldiers here.
Aleksandr says it's time to move on, concerned we may have been spotted. We push further north to the mining town of Torez, once under the control
of Russian-backed separatists, it was taken back by the Ukrainian Army in a bitter battle in July 2014.
TERESA FILLMON, AMERICAN CHARITY WORKER: You can now see the flames shooting out of the top of the building.
WARD (voice over): Teresa Fillmon watched it all from her home. The Florida native runs a Christian charity called His Kids Too and has lived
here for many years.
FILLMON: I mean, we were shelved for days on end. And you know, I would go to sleep and I'd literally just lay there and just say, God protect me.
[11:20:10]
WARD (voice over): During the worst of the fighting, she would bring home cooked meals to Ukrainian troops on the front lines.
FILLMON: So when you start knowing those people and putting a face, putting a name and a face together, I mean, I have friends that were
killed. It's not -- I'm not going to minimize this.
WARD (on camera): Were you aware of the fact that the White House had temporarily frozen military aid to Ukraine, and what was your reaction?
FILLMON: Probably frustration, because, as far as I'm concerned, we're in a David and Goliath situation that we are outmanned and outgunned.
WARD (voice over): That hasn't slowed Fillmon down. Her days are a blur of activity, distributing food to the needy and displaced. Across this
country, more than a million people have been forced from their homes.
Like pensioner Yelena Salaeva. She was hit by shrapnel while picking tomatoes in her garden. She fled and has been living in this care home
ever since. What can I do? I can never go back, she says. It is five years since we left. Like so many here, Yelena no longer cares who wins
this war.
WARD (on camera): So you just want peace. You just want an end to the war.
WARD (voice over): Ukraine's President is trying to make that happen. But peace is best negotiated from a position of strength and having the U.S. as
an ally is key.
In the west of the country, far from the front lines, Ukrainian forces carry out military exercises under the watchful eye of their American
trainer.
CAPTAIN MATTHEW CHAPMAN, U.S. ARMY: They'll be engaging targets and shooting.
WARD (voice over): Captain Matthew Chapman has been working with this unit for two months.
WARD (on camera): Can I ask what your reaction was when you heard that military aid had been frozen to Ukraine?
CHAPMAN: Personally, I don't pay attention to U.S. domestic foreign policy or politics from here. We are solely focused on the mission at hand.
WARD: And it didn't create an awkward atmosphere at all with your Ukrainian fellow soldiers?
CHAPMAN: It has not even come up in conversation with our OCs.
WARD (voice over): His Ukrainian counterpart agrees.
LIEUTENANT NAZAR SHPAK, UKRAINE ARMY: You know, I don't like to speak about politics. My mission and my main role is to protect my land and my
country. That's all I want. And it's all I know for myself.
WARD: Do you believe that America is an ally Ukraine can rely on?
SHPAK: Completely yes. Completely yes.
WARD (voice over): Privately, some Ukrainian soldiers admit to feeling uneasy. They fear that the White House's fickle behavior may strengthen
Russia's position. But all agree that with or without America's help, they have no choice but to continue this fight.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, a thick blanket of toxic smog is causing chaos in the Indian capital of New Delhi. Schools closed today and dozens of flights
were diverted from the city's international airport on Sunday due to poor visibility. New Delhi is Chief Minister describes conditions as
unbearable. Ivan Watson filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The air in the Indian capital is toxic. The air pollution, so bad that authorities
have declared a public health emergency: cancelling school, diverting flights and urging residents to say indoors. The city's Chief Minister
taking to social media to sound the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARVIND KEJRIWAL, CHIEF MINISTER OF DELHI (through translator): We do not want to blame anyone. This is an issue of our health, an issue of
breathing in air, the health of our children, our families, the people of Delhi. That's what's at stake here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON (voice-over): Bad smog is an annual problem in New Delhi. But this year, the pollution has hit record levels.
WATSON (on camera): Thermal satellite imagery from NASA reveals one contributing factor to the smog: thousands of suspected fires, burning
upwind from the Indian capital in the neighboring state of Punjab.
WATSON (voice-over): Farmers in India typically burn their fields this time of year, after the harvest. Weather patterns then trap that smoke up
against the Himalayas, around northern cities like New Delhi. But experts say the capital city also creates much of its own pollution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANTOSH HARISH, FELLOW, CENTRE FOR POLICY RESEARCH: There are four types of sources. You've got industries and power plants; you have transport
emissions, particularly trucks but also private vehicles; you have waste burning of various kinds; and you have road dust and construction dust.
All of them are major contributors of air pollution in Delhi. And those are the sources that we need to be targeting better within the city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:25:08]
WATSON (voice-over): The government imposed an odd-even policy aimed at reducing cars on the road. It's also issued millions of masks to children.
But doctors say they've seen a surge of patients suffering respiratory problems.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOPI CHAND KHINANI, PUSHPAWATI SINGHANIA HOSPITAL AND RESEARCH INSTITUTE (through translator): Those who are perfectly healthy, leading a normal
life, they've suddenly started complaining of respiratory issues: cough, sore throat, sleep deprivation, sometimes even fever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON (voice-over): On Sunday, demonstrators protested against the pollution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAIVIPRA, PROTESTER: We're concerned about our futures and about our health. But we are also fighting this on behalf of children and the
elderly, who are -- who bear the biggest brunt of the problem here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON (voice-over): New Delhi is one of the most polluted cities in the world and forecasters say there are no signs the air will improve anytime
soon -- Ivan Watson, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: All right, I've got an interview with a former Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi, coming up.
Plus could there be a glint of hope for Syria. Staying in the region and the U.N. brokering talks between the Syrian government and the opposition
for the first time in years. The former U.N. Special Envoy to Syria joins me for an exclusive interview. That's also up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: We are following the growing anger in Iraq as thousands take to the streets to protest. Iraqi Security Forces fired teargas at the crowds
today, as they push to reach the Prime Minister's Office.
Many of the protesters are demanding that he step down because of widespread unemployment and government corruption.
Many Iraqis blaming Iran for the problems in their country as well. They tried to storm the Iranian consulate in Karbala last night activists there
say three Iraqi protesters were killed in the clashes.
[11:30:25]
ANDERSON: Well, the former prime minister of Iraq, Haider al-Abadi, joining me now from Baghdad. And sir, the President had promised that the
current Prime Minister would resign as long as there was no vacuum, but he is still in office and on Sunday night, he said the demonstrations have
achieved their purpose and blamed protesters for costing the economy billions of dollars. That doesn't sound like the Prime Minister conceding
to demands and ready to resign. Should he go?
HAIDER AL-ABADI, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF IRAQ: Well, I hope the Prime Minister listens to the people on the street, and he must do something very
quick, otherwise, it would be too late if he delays his decision.
I don't think there will be a vacuum. I think that Parliament can agree a substitute either transitional or someone who will continue for the next
three years.
We prefer transitional because really we have -- people want to own back their own political system, their own state, and people have the right to
do this.
There has been a lot of mistakes in the last year, I think, now is -- some of it is beyond repair at this very short moment. I think the Prime
Minister has been given a huge chance to amend it, but he didn't. And I hope he listens to the people on the street. People are innocent and
people are telling the truth at the moment. We should listen to them.
ANDERSON: You also promised to fight corruption and to stand up to corrupt officials, but you failed to sort things out during your tenure. Anti-
government protests in the summer of 2018 ending your bid for a second term. Sir, do you want another shot at the job?
AL-ABADI: Well, not really. I think it's completely different last year. I think we didn't have this huge number of people being killed and injured
which is really is unjustifiable, and things are going wrong.
We, Iraqi, we pride ourselves with free press, with free demonstrations, but now people getting killed. Now freedom of the press, with people of
the mass being in danger.
ANDERSON: Okay.
AL-ABADI: Things are going the wrong direction, not in the right direction. We must rectify it. We must reform it very quickly.
ANDERSON: But sir, you say things are so much worse than they were last year, but why is it that 16 years after the war in Iraq, and the end of
Saddam Hussein, why is it the one of the world's most oil rich countries, unable to pay salaries, cannot provide a functioning electricity system,
cannot provide potable water, things may have got worse, but they were pretty bad last year as well. Do you genuinely believe that the changing
of the guard can fix these underlying problems?
And I ask you again, do you want another term as Iraq's Prime Minister? Do you genuinely believe you could fix these problems?
AL-ABADI: Well, I think -- look, I mean, there has been a lot of problems in the past. I agree with this. But reforms takes time. And don't
forget, during my term for years, we've been fighting a very dangerous terrorist organization. We fought it off. We liberated our land and we
started to reform, started to bring back all what we can to deliver services to the people. We just started then things took to the wrong
turn, and here we are.
Now in the last year, there were no war, we have plenty of resources because don't forget, during my term, oil prices plummeted to about a third
their value to what they were before. So we had a huge problem then.
Now this problem is not there.
ANDERSON: Right.
AL-ABADI: We didn't have a war. Oil prices are as much higher than before. But still, we are worse off than what we were before. There is
something drastically wrong, which I think politicians must sit down and rectify. We have to listen to the people.
At my term, I did listen to the people. I was meeting with all the people in all governments, listening to them and making things better. I think
the government should do this.
ANDERSON: I'm going to give you another opportunity --
AL-ABADI: But I think the government is too slow.
ANDERSON: I'm going to give you another opportunity to tell me whether you want to be Prime Minister again. But sir, you certainly had success
against ISIS. There is no doubt with much help from Iran-backed militia, it has to be said. This is what the Supreme Leader of Iran is saying about
these growing protests. Have a listen.
[11:35:10]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI, IRANIAN SUPREME LEADER (through translator): In the world, the arrogant forces and most of all America and Intelligence
services are causing rampage in our neighboring countries and those close to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So Iran's leadership, sir, blaming outside forces not acknowledging protesters claims of Iran's involvement, deep involvement in
Iran's politics. I'm asking you, what is Tehran's influence on Iraqi politics and on Iraq as a country, sir?
AL-ABADI: Well, I as a politician, as a nationalist, I'm against any involvement of any country into our own affairs. Whether this is Iran,
whether this is Saudi Arabia, whether this is Turkey, whether this is the U.S., we must stand together.
I think Iraqis have been shouting this now bravely, and I think others should listen to them. Now, I know the official probably stand of the U.S.
administration now is to support this government, the current government, despite all this killing, despite human rights abuses.
So I think instead of telling us from foreign leaders what to do, what we should do, I think they should stand with Iraq and respect Iraq's
sovereignty, and this is what we want at the moment.
ANDERSON: Well, in a recent call with the Iraqi Prime Minister, the U.S. Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo condemning the recent violence and said
violators should be held accountable, that more than 15 years after the U.S. invasion.
Now, we know that Donald Trump wants out of what he calls these forever wars in the Middle East, what do you want from the U.S. with regard Iraq?
And what is the impact, sir, of this waning U.S. influence in Iraq and the region?
AL-ABADI: Well, I mean, this is a huge question now. I think the U.S. administration, the policy of the U.S. administration is not very clear in
the region at this very moment.
I think in the past four years, we have a common enemy, which is Daesh/ISIS, and this common enemy was threatening not only Iraq, in fact,
affecting the region and the whole world, so we did have all of us, a common cause. But at the moment, there is no common cause and every
country is seeking his own interests on the account of the interest of the other.
I think we should -- we should have a pause and we should look at the state of the world. I can see everywhere, public citizens are losing trust into
their own politicians. This is a huge problem now.
ANDERSON: Right.
AL-ABADI: And we have to address it here in Iraq and everywhere else. The Israeli involvement here --
ANDERSON: And everywhere including Lebanon of course.
AL-ABADI: I would condemn any involvement -- yes, of course, yes. I would condemn any involvement into Iraq. If it is Israelis, if it is the U.S. or
anybody else.
But don't forget in this area, there is a lot of conflicts that have been going on for a very long time. It is very complex. You know, who is on
whose sides, which I think makes things very worse.
ANDERSON: Right.
AL-ABADI: I hope and I wish and I call upon politicians to be very clear, including the U.S. administration on this.
ANDERSON: You met Donald Trump back in 2017. I mean, you'll have met him a number of times, I'm sure, but his focus, reportedly at a meeting with
you was solely on Iraq's oil. It is reported that he said to you, what are we going to do about the oil? Is that true?
I mean, I'm asking you, given the context of his decision to leave troops in Syria wholly focus there on protecting oil assets, which of course,
aren't his to protect or take.
AL-ABADI: Yes, yes. I've seen this, of course, which is today. But by all honesty, that meeting, which happened in 1917, I think Mr. Trump was in
office for maybe probably three or two months. That issue was never raised about Iraqi oil. It was never -- never mentioned, never raised.
I've seen some of his speeches before he became President about Iraqi oil, which we rejected. I did reject it in public, but of course, he never
repeated it after hat when we become President. I never heard it from him -- from him in my meeting with him in the White House.
I did have delegation with me as well. It was never raised whether from him or other officials in the White House.
[11:40:05]
ANDERSON: Let me ask you this, sir, I want to get back to Iran's influence on Iraq. If protesters do succeed in weakening established political
parties that have deep ties to Iran's leaders, one commentator today writing in "The New York Times," suggesting and I quote, "Iran stands to
lose decades of financial, political and military investments that have turned it into one of the Middle East's biggest powers," a similar story,
of course, in Lebanon, that would suit the U.S. and Saudi Arabia specifically and indeed, Israel.
These are forces that the Iranian leader is blaming for what is going on in your country. Just how much meddling is there in Iraq at present?
AL-ABADI: Well, I would condemn any meddling. Don't forget, Iran is our neighbor. We have the longest border with them. Our population centers
are mostly closer to the Iranian border. We have a mutual interest together.
But that is one thing and influencing our political system or us influencing their political system, this should not be on. This should be
rejected by all Iraqi political parties and should be rejected by all Iraniana as well, by all the Iraqis and the Iranians.
To have a healthy relationship, we should not intervene into our internal affairs. This is wrong. Whoever have been doing it, from the Iranian side
or from the Iraqi side, this is wrong and we should cease it immediately.
I know what the Iraqis want. Iraqis have the right to decide their own political system, their own way forward, and everybody should respect this.
I think this is what we are moving now at the moment.
We don't want to inundate with Iran. Iran is our neighbor. We shouldn't go into that direction. Saddam Hussein has spent eight years of war with
Iran, and there has been many casualties of Iraqis and Iranians, we should know go along that path.
We should go along respecting our own sovereignty, and we ask others to respect our own sovereignty.
ANDERSON: Sir, I've got two more questions for you. The first one needs a yes or no answer. Do you want the job? Do you want to take on the Prime
Ministership again? You sound tonight during these interview as if you believe you could do a better job at present.
AL-ABADI: Well, I certainly believe I could have done a much better job. But at the moment, my answer is no. I don't want this job. Now, there has
been a lot of mistakes, a lot of grievances, a lot of things which went very bad, which will need different direction at the moment.
I'm not in a position at the moment to take this job at this very moment. I would be very much with others to help direct the country in the right
direction. I will be better placed into that position rather than being a substitute to something which probably has used all of their means to push
me out.
ANDERSON: We've witnessed scenes in Karbala over the weekend with protesters attacking the Iranian Consulate there, protesters in turn being
attacked themselves, three deaths. This year, there were also problems over the Shiite pilgrimage to the city. Thousands of Iranians make the
journey.
So the government helped with tents and hospitals, but they also tried to send police which Iraq refused. Now that the Iranian Consulate has been
attacked, do you believe that Iraqis are to a certain extent, shooting themselves in the foot here?
This is a city that brings in millions of revenue with regard that pilgrimage, I just want your sense on what is going on in Karbala at this
point.
AL-ABADI: Well, it was very unfortunate for the Iraqi casualties. It is very unfortunate to attack a foreign consulate. But it shows the level of
frustration. I think we should not ignore this and we should move forward. This is, I think, being condemned by the Iraqi government.
I think as you say, these are holy places where millions of pilgrimage, they come to visit, which is helpful for us, helpful for our economy, and
it's very healthy for a relationship between the two countries.
I think this should continue regardless, but this is -- it is the same, it happened last year in Basra. I have my own reading of what happened. My
own reading -- who is behind it. I think there are footprints of some -- it is very complicated. I think we have to wait for an investigation to
see what happened exactly.
[11:45:08]
ANDERSON: With that, sir, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for your time in what is an extremely important time for
the country of Iraq. Thank you, sir.
As we've been discussing in Lebanon, massive anti-government protests keep sweeping across that country. Demonstrators filled the streets and shut
down roads as protest moved there into the 19th day.
Protesters demanding political reform and swift creation of a new Cabinet after the unrest forced the resignation of the Prime Minister Saad Hariri
just last week.
In southern Lebanon, you can see people here marching and waving the Lebanese flag on Sunday and in Beirut, drone cameras caught images of a
massive protest in Martyr's Square. Well, I was in Lebanon last week as the Prime Minister stepped down.
Our exclusive interview with some of those -- the protesters, if you want to see the back of and the voices of the protest movement all at
cnn.com/connect.
Mission Impossible, not the words you want to see on your job description, but that was the case for Staffan de Mistura, the former U.N. Special Envoy
to Syria. His first international interview since leaving his post is up next.
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ANDERSON: All right, this is CONNECT THE WORLD out of our Middle East broadcasting hub of Abu Dhabi where the time is just before ten to nine in
the evening, staying in the region for you.
Crucial talks to draft a new Constitution for Syria continuing this week in Geneva. The U.N. Special Envoy Geir Pedersen hailing an impressive start
after Syria's Constitutional Committee met for the first time last week.
Now the meeting between the 150 delegates marks the first face-to-face talks between the Syrian government and opposition in nearly nine years of
fighting. This of course coming on the backdrop of unrest in Northeast Syria where Turkey and Kurdish forces swapping blame for Saturday's deadly
car bomb.
Well, my next guest helped in forming the groundwork for these talks in Geneva, Staffan de Mistura is the longest serving U.N. Special Envoy to
Syria during Civil War, stepping down late last year. His four decades of diplomacy made him one of the only up for the job dubbed Mission
Impossible. Mr. de Mistura joining me exclusively now from London in what is his first international interview since leaving the post.
And we do thank you, sir for joining us. We want to talk about your career a little bit and after the first part of this interview, but let's just
talk about what is going on with these talks. Pedersen admitting deep differences and a lack of trust. But he said that the fact that 150
Syrians have been sitting together is, in his words, quite impressive. How significant are these talks?
[11:50:16]
STAFFAN DE MISTURA, THE FORMER U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY TO SYRIA: Well, they are significant because it's true, it's been the first time that they actually
met. They actually met once when I was there in Geneva, but they didn't talk to each other, but at least they didn't fight between them.
But this time, they've been talking and they are co-chairing, and there are 45 of them out of 150, and they do have even rules of the game agreed upon.
So the issue is why now and not earlier? Would that not be your question? It is certainly my question.
ANDERSON: It certainly is my next question, sir.
DE MISTURA: Well, then, I've been thinking about it and first of all, life is full of one ruling, which is timing. In everything, private life,
professional life, and believe me in international affairs.
I suspect that there was only four names missing last year. So we could have perhaps even done it last year. But those four names were not agreed
upon. It took one year of very patient negotiation by Geir Pedersen to get those four names agreed upon.
My feeling is, and I think I may not be wrong is that the government was not ready in particular. Why? They wanted to be in a stronger position
and the opposition wanted to have better assurances, but particularly Geir. So the timing is now for at least giving it a try, but it's only the first
step, remember.
ANDERSON: I want to ask you whether you really believe this political opposition is in any way reflects the actual opposition on the ground. In
Idlib, the government is in a violent fight against Islamists, elsewhere, there are mostly Kurdish SDF until recently, at least controlling some 30
percentt of the country.
This political opposition doesn't represent these factions, so what is the point, sir?
DE MISTURA: Well, first of all, let's be frank. Those in Idlib, there are 3.5 million people. But there are 20,000 fighters among which probably,
and no one can deny that.
By the way, you notice where the al-Baghdadi was found. He was found in that area. So there are terrorists there. There is Al-Nusra there and
they are linked to al Qaeda.
So the opposition we are talking about, the ones who are present in Geneva are those who, yes, have been fighting the government, disagree with the
government, but are not part of that type of opposition.
ANDERSON: Yes, because in the past, of course, any opposition was defined by Bashar Al-Assad is terrorists or terrorist elements, but the U.N. says
that these talks will be Syrian-owned and Syrian-led. Russia first proposed this 150 strong committee back in January 2018 and Foreign
Ministers from Russia, from Iran and Turkey met with negotiators on the eve of these talks.
Considering Russia's influence in Syria, is it really possible for these talks to be Syrian-owned?
DE MISTURA: Well, everything as you know, needs to be qualified. The Syrian people, believe me, are very proud people. Both the government and
opposition, they are still Syrian. So they don't like really to be told what to do and how to do it.
Having said that, after eight years of war with 15 countries involved and particularly some of them, they all have a lot of influence. The Russians
and the Iranians on the government and the Turks with others on the opposition.
So they do have an influence, but the important thing in the room, they should not be there, but you cannot imagine that they will not be outside
the room consulting each other, it will happen.
And by the way, when there will be a problem, we will have to rely on Russia and on Turkey in order to convince the two sides not to break down
for instance the talks.
ANDERSON: Well, yes, I am told that anyone who has an interest in finding a solution for Syria talks these days rings Moscow. How would you describe
Russia's influence in Syria? And what do you believe its intent is long term, sir?
DE MISTURA: That is the crucial question. A Russian influence is paramount. Why? First of all, because they had been very consistent.
Others have been less consistent. Let's be frank.
Secondly, because they have been putting on the table the chips which is a very substantial military intervention, which was a game changer. We all
know it. We like it or not, but it was a game changer.
And three, they have been actually very eager to not get stuck with the reconstruction of Syria. In other words, they cannot afford, do not want
to be part of it because they can't do it. That's why they have a sense of urgency in being part of pushing a political process.
[11:55:12]
ANDERSON: And with that, sir, we're going to have to leave it there. I'm going to close the show. We thank you very much indeed, for joining us,
Staffan de Mistura with us today.
I'm Becky Anderson, you've been watching CONNECT THE WORLD.
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