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Trump Impeachment Inquiry; Big Wins for Democrats in State and Local Elections; Wife of ISIS Leader Captured; Mormon Family Members Massacred; Miami Father Searches for Missing Children in Syria; Fate of Children from 60 Nations Trapped in Syria Unknown. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired November 06, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Turkey reveals it's captured the wife of the killed ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. We speak exclusively
with the country's defense minister about the plans Turkey has in place to handle ISIS.
A suspect is arrested in the massacre of nine members of a Mormon family near the U.S.-Mexico border.
And how a dramatic reversal in testimony may just have splintered Donald Trump's impeachment defense.
It's 8:00 pm here in Abu Dhabi. It's 11:00 am in Washington.
A major reversal cutting to the heart of the Trump administration's impeachment defense. It seems the U.S. ambassador to the E.U. has revised
his testimony, now admitting there was a quid quo pro with Ukraine.
And to add salt to the wound, big dramatic wins at the ballot box Tuesday could mean more trouble for the U.S. president, Mr. Trump, in 2020. Let's
kick off this hour with Suzanne Malveaux who filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A stunning reversal from Gordon Sondland. Now admitting there was a quid quo pro between President
Trump and Ukraine over military aid.
The Trump campaign donor turned U.S. ambassador to the European Union submitting a three-page revision to the testimony he gave last month,
saying, "Statements of top U.S. diplomat to Ukraine Bill Taylor and former top adviser on Russia Tim Morrison refreshed my recollection about certain
conversations."
Sondland writing, "I now recall speaking individually with an aide to Ukraine's president, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would not
occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks."
REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): His defense, in case anyone hasn't noticed, is now on the floor. It's crumbled. Ambassador Sondland explicitly admitted
in his corrected testimony today that a quid quo pro most certainly did occur.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Sondland also detailing Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani's involvement, testifying, "It kept getting more insidious,"
and, "The State Department was fully aware of the issues," adding, "There was very little they can do about it if the president decided he wanted his
lawyer involved."
Giuliani also a highlight in Kurt Volker's testimony, recalling a May meeting with the president in which he directed his aides to speak with
Giuliani about Ukraine.
He says Trump pushed back, saying, "They're all corrupt. They're all terrible people. I don't want to spend any time with them."
President Trump's allies praising Volker's remarks when asked if he talked to other diplomats about a possible quid quo pro. He told investigators,
"None, because I didn't know there was a quid quo pro."
The White House maintaining that both transcripts are good for Trump.
STEPHANIE GRISHAM, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The transcripts that were released today show exactly what the president has been saying all along.
And that is he did nothing wrong and that there was no quid quo pro.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Suzanne Malveaux joins us now live from Capitol Hill. I also want to bring in our White House reporter and friend of the show, Stephen
Collinson.
Let me start with you, Suzanne.
Given what was in that report of yours, just how are Republicans responding to this?
MALVEAUX: Here's how they're responding. They're essentially taking Sondland's amended testimony and saying, it's simply his opinion. That's
what we heard from the ranking Republican on Oversight, Jim Jordan.
It's also what we have heard from the top advisor to the White House, Kellyanne Conway, saying it's a presumption. Also we heard from senator
Lindsey Graham, dismissing these transcripts all outright.
What you're hearing and seeing here is an indication of vice president Pence meeting with a senior Republicans, giving them the advice to tell
people to read the transcript.
And what they're talking about is the direct transcript of the phone call because they believe that they can tell the American people and convince
the American people that's the only direct link between President Trump and Ukraine and conversations about Ukraine and what was expected of Ukraine.
[11:05:00]
MALVEAUX: And that all of this testimony, you have at least five witnesses testifying about these arrangements, about the conditions of this aid being
held back, the quid quo pro act of this.
They say, no, don't listen to those witnesses. That does not directly come from the president. The only thing that's coming from this president is
that phone call.
So you'll see those T-shirts that people are wearing at Trump's rallies now that says, read the transcript. They believe that if you read the
transcript of the phone call and ignore the testimony and the transcripts, voluminous details, hundreds and hundreds of pages, that that will show
that this is a very narrowly focused relief that they have that he is not guilty, that he has done nothing wrong.
ANDERSON: Stephen, you argue that president Donald Trump's impeachment defense is, and I quote you here, "being stripped away plank by plank" by
some of the administration officials, caught up in a scheme to pressure Ukraine for political favors. Certainly not what the Republicans are
buying. Explain the argument if you will.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we've seen in these testimonies that have been delivered are now being released publicly, the impeachment
investigation, as we have multiple officials saying that there was a quid quo pro, that Ukraine was required to open an investigation into Democrats
in 2016 and former Vice President Joe Biden to get military aid freed up.
Republicans are going to mine all the minutiae of this case to try and find the rational argument to get the president off the hook.
But what is clear is the president charged his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, with running an off-the-books Ukraine policy to get an investigation into Biden.
You have officials testifying that there was a quid quo pro.
Now in any normal environment, when facts were the most important thing and politics revolved around facts, this would be a pretty devastating set of
events for the president. But of course, what we're seeing that the Republicans taking the White House's line here and simply denying what is
out there.
Even that call that Suzanne was talking about, the transcript, the president of Ukraine is talking about getting U.S. military equipment, then
the president says, yes, but I need a favor. It's clear what was going on here.
What is not clear is how this will change the rather ossified political facts on Capitol Hill and in the broader country as it relates to what
people think about impeachment.
ANDERSON: These committees, of course, building a case, as it were, the prosecution of a case in this impeachment inquiry. We are some weeks away
from its finality. We've been promised some sort of wrap by Thanksgiving and, give or take, I assume some weeks either before or after that; more
than likely after that.
Meantime, away from Washington, some key elections that don't paint a great picture as Donald Trump himself gears up to try and seal another term as
president a year from now.
COLLINSON: We had some elections last night in Kentucky, where the Republican governor, who appeared on stage with the president the night
before, was defeated by a Democrat. Democrats have now taken control of both state houses in Virginia. That was formerly a Republican state and
now is pretty reliably in the Democratic column.
I think you can be careful perhaps to overread some of these results. They don't necessarily mean, although they are apparently bad news for president
Trump, that that's the way the election will go next year. And you can make fairly good arguments in both these cases there were local factors at
play.
But what I think the big take away for 2020 is, these results confirm that Trump has big trouble in suburban districts around the big cities. Places
are becoming more reliably Democratic. We saw that both in Kentucky and in Virginia. Those are the voters that deserted the president in the 2018
midterm elections.
It would make things difficult for the president in Pennsylvania and Michigan. Those are the states that helped him on the path to the White
House. He cannot afford to lose them if he's going to get a second term. So I think that is the way to look at these results and extrapolate what
might happen in a year's time.
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ANDERSON: Always a pleasure, both of you, Stephen and Suzanne. Thank you.
Still ahead, Turkey says it's captured the wife of the late ISIS leader, al-Baghdadi. They also captured at least two other family members. We'll
tell you what information Turkish officials hope to learn from them after this.
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ANDERSON: The Turkish president has announced that the country has captured the wife of the late ISIS founder, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Mr.
Erdogan also confirmed that Turkey captured al-Baghdadi's sister and brother-in-law in Syria.
Al-Baghdadi died during a U.S. raid on October 26th. Mr. Erdogan said that while the U.S. made a big PR campaign out of that raid, Turkey is not doing
so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): We captured his wife but we didn't make a big fuss. I am announcing it here
for the first time. At the same time, we captured his sister and brother- in-law in Syria.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: My colleague Jomana Karadsheh is in northern Syria embedded with Turkish forces. She sent this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Erdogan announcing on Wednesday that Turkey captured the wife of former ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-
Baghdadi. It's not clear where this happened, when this happened or which of Baghdadi's multiple wives this was.
It comes a day after Turkish officials say they captured the sister of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, her husband and daughter-in-law in a raid in a housing
container in northern Syria.
We spoke to an official from the Free Syrian Army, the Syrian national army as it's known right now. He told us that she had moved into the town about
six months ago. She was posing as a refugee. The family came into the town with fake documents. They tried to blend into the local population.
They're concerned there could be many more who are trying to do the same, former ISIS members, the family members of ISIS members. They say they're
on the lookout for that right now.
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KARADSHEH: Turkish officials believe that these recent arrests are a potential intelligence gold mine. It could give them insights into how
ISIS is operating right now and the kind of threat it poses to Turkey and to the rest of the world -- Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, northern Syria.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Sam Kiley is with me and spent some weeks on the Turkish-Syrian border recently.
You've got Jomana telling us what we believe we know today, which is very little. I know you have further detail on who this woman may have been.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We know that Baghdadi had at least two wives. His older wife was arrested back in 2014-15 and
held in Lebanon for a while. They had one child.
In this case, we've got Issa, who is the second wife and has a son that would be of the sort of age it was suggested by Donald Trump that Baghdadi
took their lives when he killed himself. But we don't really know very much more than that.
Both cases, both wives are Iraqi. And as Jomana was saying, quite significantly, detail she added, they had been there for several months
trying to blend in with the refugee community.
In every case so far, they've all been discovered in areas that have been under Turkish dominance, if not control, for more than a year now since the
incursion of 2017, really. So that could be that the Turks have had their eye on them for some time and provided a great deal of the intelligence
that led to Baghdadi or they're trying now to flush things out, based on new intelligence.
It is interesting though that they are now claiming responsibility and claiming credit for these arrests and the intelligence that flows from
them. They were silent on the whole issue of the Islamic State in their territories for many, many months before.
ANDERSON: I spoke to the Turkish defense minister earlier on in an exclusive interview. I asked them categorically whether they had known
where al-Baghdadi was before the U.S. operation. He said no, categorically no.
We spoke while the president was making the announcement about the capture of al-Baghdadi's wife. I pressed the defense minister on the details of
the operation and capture of Baghdadi's wife. Have a listen to our back and forth on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULUSI AKAR, TURKISH DEFENSE MINISTER: Baghdadi's wife, the operation, under the hands of the Turkish forces. Now we have to treat it --
depending on the situation, forces the institutions. Very soon, there will be additional announcements about the situation and (INAUDIBLE).
ANDERSON: Minister, let me press you on this.
Where was al-Baghdadi's wife captured?
What do we know about the details of the operation?
What can you tell us at this point?
AKAR: Now at this point, the security forces working on the issue in detail. They are making preparations as soon as possible. They will make
the announcements to the public for the additional -- for the announcements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Can't say I didn't try.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON: We're waiting for further detail. As I say, the announcement by President Erdogan of this arrest coming as the Turkish defense minister and
I were talking. Clearly as Jomana pointed out in her report, the Turks have already talked about a gold mine of intelligence potentially for any
and all of these ISIS assets.
KILEY: It's interesting that if, as the Turkish defense minister told you, they did not have prior intelligence in the location of Baghdadi, that does
rather beg the question, what are all these people doing in their territory?
Who gave them intelligence to go and pick up the sister, the wife and kill the spokesmen?
All of that has happened in the space of 2.5 weeks.
Are the Turks being flat footed, being disingenuous?
They've also got a very serious concern on their hands. There are significant players from the so-called Islamic State on their doorstep, in
their territory, on smuggling routes.
[11:20:00]
KILEY: And clear indications they're trying to get into Turkey.
Have others got in and are they organizing?
Also when I was in Turkey, there had been a number of significant roundups, too.
ANDERSON: I pressed the minister about Turkey's next steps to combat ISIS. Alluding to very much what you're talking about here. Here's what he told
me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: What concrete plans does Turkey have to handle ISIS going forward?
AKAR: Yes, we are nearly 100 percent casualty ISIS and then we are already -- capabilities to fight against ISIS. In the area of operation north of
Syria or somewhere else. Not only within the area of operation but also the incorporation in coordination with some of the European countries to
send the ISIS members to their countries.
The argument here is the ministries dealing with the issue very carefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Pointing out they are dealing with this issue very carefully. You would expect him to tell me that.
KILEY: But interesting he said they weren't going to restrict their operations to what they call the operational area, which is that 32
kilometer buffer zone. That will sprint the horses somewhat in the Americans and the SDF community, of course, they're outside of that
territory and still prosecuting their own conflict against the Islamic State.
He repeated this call, frankly, one that's been shared by Donald Trump and many groups who are still askance as to why the Europeans are not dealing
with the foreign European fighters' women and children.
There are 28,000 children UNICEF are reporting in that area; not all are foreigners but these people have to be sorted out. The innocent need to be
separated from the guilty. None of that is going on either under the SDF nor under the Turks. So they do have leverage at least with the Europeans.
ANDERSON: We discussed the buffer zone. The Turks and the Russians agreeing to clearing the safe zone, you just alluded to, of Kurdish
fighters. Mr. Erdogan, ahead of our interview, he had said that that area was still not cleared of what he called, quote, "terrorists."
It was difficult to get a kind of concise answer from the defense minister as to whether he believed that Mr. Erdogan was blaming the Russian troops
at this point for not clearing that area. But the bottom line here, the long-term strategy is to rehouse 3.5 million Syrian refugees in that area.
Not clear how, when or quite frankly where at present.
Because new cities and towns would need to be built, wouldn't they?
KILEY: Who is going to pay for it?
That's an absolute key aspect with the issue there. The Turks are understandably fed up with the housing, 3.5 million -- you look at how
controversial minor levels of immigration in the United Kingdom have been.
This is a substantial increase on their population. There is pressure. It's not terrible yet. People are not being attacked in the streets but
there are tensions. They want to get the Syrians to go home.
There's an ancillary motive perhaps, which is that if you house that many, you've changed the demographics. You've created a buffer zone between the
Kurdish population in Turkey and the Kurds of northern Syria. It's a policy that was tried by Saddam Hussein back in the day. I'll leave that
there.
ANDERSON: Sam Kiley in the house.
The cost is something like $26 billion in that buffer zone. It's not clear who will pay as of yet. Turkish defense minister speaking to me
exclusively. More of that interview to follow.
Coming up, a suspect is in custody in the brutal -- in connection with the brutal massacre of a Mormon family. Details on how the family may have
landed in the crosshairs of Mexican cartels is up next.
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ANDERSON: Welcome back. We are learning more about the nine members of a Mormon family massacred in Mexico. Some of the members have a long-
standing reputation in the area as anticrime activists which caused friction with the cartels in Mexico.
Authorities in Mexico continue to search for the perpetrators. Rafael Romo live from CNN Center in Atlanta with further details.
What do we know at this point about what happened to this convoy, this family who were traveling in a convoy in the north of Mexico?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SR. LATIN AFFAIRS EDITOR: We're learning more details, Becky. In the last few minutes, the Mexican government said that a man who
was arrested as a suspect yesterday in this case, in this massacre in northwest Mexico, does not have anything to do with what happened.
It's not surprising, because we've seen, in a lot of high profile cases before, that there's a lot of pressure from Mexican authorities to come up
with some sort of resolution. They arrested this man. Apparently he has nothing to do.
We're learning now that the families were traveling in a convoy of three vehicles and one of the members of the family described to CNN, there was a
rain of bullets coming to them from above. They were traveling in the hills between the states of Sonora and Chihuahua in northwest Mexico when
this happened.
Three families, three women with their children, trying to get to the Chihuahua side of the border between the two states there in Mexico when
this happened.
[11:30:00]
ROMO: Now there was a new line of investigation that Mexican authorities released in a press conference just a few moments ago, saying that there
was a drug gang in Sonora, which was trying to control territory in neighboring Chihuahua.
There's been fights between them and they say, the very same day that these families were attacked, there was a shootout between the two groups. And
that may have been what's behind what happened.
It's a very, very difficult for people in Mexico to come to the conclusion that three women and their children traveling on the road might have been
mistaken by hardcore criminals in that part of Mexico, Becky.
ANDERSON: Sure. Listen, you grew up in this part of the world.
What sort of context can you provide for us, you know, what goes on in that region?
What sort of, you know, its profile is. Just, you know, what might have happened.
ROMO: Yes, the reality is that that part of northwest Mexico is no man's land and has been so for a long, long time. Even authorities today were
saying that there is a presence of about 2,000 members of the Mexican military.
The state of Chihuahua is the largest in terms of extension in Mexico but it's not very densely populated. The same things happens in Sonora.
Growing up there, I can tell you that the level of crime was not as high as it is now because it was not a territory that you had different cartels
fighting for, as it is the case today.
In reality, presence from federal police, the military, has historically been very, very scarce. So not surprised, as terrible as this was, that
they didn't have a way to defend these people who died in the massacre.
ANDERSON: Rafael Romo with the reality on the ground in that part of the country. Thank you, sir.
Earlier, CNN spoke to a relative of the victims about the strength of the surviving children. Here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAFE LANGFORD, VICTIMS' RELATIVE: We're still looking for answers and praying for answers. The heroic actions of these kids, the loneliness they
felt in the mountains for hours and hours all shot up and wounded, carrying each other in their arms.
Just the effort by these six children to survive and come home to their father is something that we just want the world to feel with us. We're
just blessed to have survivors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Heartbreaking, isn't it?
Brian Todd has a closer look at the victims and the very emotional responses from their family members.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A shell-shocked family patriarch the burnt-out vehicle where his daughter-in-law and grandchildren
were murdered.
KENNETH MILLER, RELATIVE OF VICTIMS: This is for the record. Nita and four of my grandchildren are burnt and shot up. Right on the road out of
La Mora.
TODD: Tonight the indescribably brutal attack is resonating throughout Mexico and the U.S. Nine members of an extended family, three women and
six children, two of them less than a year old, were shot and burned to death in their vehicles.
MILLER: None of my grandchildren made it out. It burnt to a crisp. And my daughter-in-law is about as innocent as they come. And I'm not saying
it because she's gone.
TODD: At least seven children survived the assault which occurred Monday afternoon as the family was traveling in a caravan of three vehicles near
their home in La Mora, south of the Arizona and New Mexico borders. Criminal groups are suspected of carrying out the attack, but it's not
clear tonight if the family was targeted or if they were mistaken for rival drug traffickers.
Analysts say several cartels are battling over drug routes in that region of Mexico and it's getting increasingly lawless.
DUNCAN WOOD, THE WOODROW WILSON CENTER: It seems as though the organized crime groups feel as though they are highly empowered at this point in
time. They feel as though they have the upper hand in that area of Mexico against federal forces.
TODD: And the victims were at the center of that chaos. They're all part of a Mormon community in norther Mexico, many of them with dual U.S. and
Mexican citizenship. They're not affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
The extended LeBaron Family which moved to Mexico in 1924 after splitting off from the Mormon Church is no stranger to cartel violence. In 2009,
when teenager Eric LeBaron was kidnapped by suspected members of a drug cartel and held for $1 million, his brother Benjamin led protests. Eric
was released but Benjamin and a relative were dragged from their home and killed for standing up to the cartels.
[11:35:00]
TODD (voice-over): Now the family is hinting it might be on the verge of taking a stand again.
KENDRA LEE MILLER, RELATIVE OF VICTIMS: We're not just going to stand by and watch this happen anymore. The cartels have taken too many of our
family members.
TODD: But with so many powerful cartels surrounding them, what recourse does the family have?
WOOD: I think that what we're going to see, what we've seen in the past in many parts of Mexico and actually in that part of the northwest of Mexico,
we've seen society arming itself, protecting itself. At the moment they feel as though they are not being protected by the federal government so
they're going to find ways in which they can protect their loved ones, their families, their communities.
TODD: In a tweet President Trump said it's time for Mexico to wage war on the cartels and wipe them off the face of the earth and Trump offered more
American help to do that. Mexican president Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador politely declined, saying it's Mexico's responsibility. But analysts say
don't expect Obrador's government to get a handle on this anytime soon. Last year Mexico saw a record 33,000 homicides and 2019 is on pace to
eclipse that -- Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson. Coming up, we take you on a father's desperate and heartbreaking journey to
find his kids, who he believes are trapped in a Syrian camp without their mother among thousands of ISIS families. That after this.
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ANDERSON: We've been discussing this hour the very complicated situation in northern Syria and what remains of the terror group ISIS there. And as
the situation continues to grow more uncertain, so does the fate of thousands of children, often the forgotten victims, brought there for a
life of terror they did not choose.
Now UNICEF is urging governments to bring home thousands of these foreign children stranded in the region. The U.N.'s children agency estimates
nearly 28,000 children from more than 60 countries are trapped inside the Syrian displacement camps. That's a very, very big number. Their main
question to the world, what will happen to us now.
Let's just bring the scale of the situation down to one family if we can. CNN's Rosa Flores spoke to a man on a quest to have his kids that are
thought to be trapped in Syria without either of their parents. Rosa joins us now from Miami.
Enlighten us about this man's story.
[11:40:00]
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Becky, this is a devastating story. This man is heartbroken. Just imagine, he says that his wife
kidnapped his children here from Miami, took them to Syria to join ISIS in 2015 and since then, this man says he's cooperated with U.S. authorities;
he has given up all his privacy, hoping that federal agents would track his wife, they would find his children, rescue them and bring them back here to
America.
It's been more than four and a half years and he never lost hope that U.S. commandos would do exactly that. However, due to recent events, his
confidence has shattered.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FLORES (voice-over): Bashirul Shikder has been on an agonizing quest to find his American born children. It all started in March of 2015, when he
says his wife of eight years, Rashida Samaya (ph), kidnapped 4-year-old Yusif and 9-month-old Zahra from their home in Miami and joined ISIS in
Syria.
BASHIRUL SHIKDER, FATHER OF MISSING CHILDREN: It was impossible pain that I was going through but, at the same time, I was turning to my faith,
believing in God.
FLORES (voice-over): A month later, ISIS called him with an ultimatum: join or lose your wife and children. Shikder says he reached out to
American authorities, even giving federal agents access to his computer, his phone.
ZAHRA SHIKDER, BASHIRUL'S DAUGHTER: So I miss you. I like you, I love you. I know you love me.
FLORES (voice-over): -- and to the most intimate conversations with his family.
Z. SHIKDER: So I'm sick. So I'm always coughing. So I miss you.
B. SHIKDER: When I was talking to my son, I tried my best not to show my tears for him. I tried my best but sometimes I could not.
FLORES (voice-over): These images of his children captured by his wife nearly broke him. Yusif, emotionless; Zahra, pretending to eat.
FLORES: Did they have enough to eat?
B. SHIKDER: No way. They were making soup with grasses. No fruits, no food. Nothing was there.
FLORES (voice-over): And then there were the sounds of war so frightening that Yusif packed his toys.
B. SHIKDER: He was telling his mom that my daddy is coming to pick me up.
FLORES: He wanted to come back to Miami?
B. SHIKDER: Yes.
FLORES (voice-over): His wife asked for money for the children.
RASHIDA SUMAYA, SHIKDER'S WIFE: Send a very good amount. Like at least $3,000.
B. SHIKDER: I really wanted but at the same time, I didn't want to ruin anything that I will disrespect the law.
FLORES (voice-over): Under U.S. law, wiring cash could equate to funding a terrorist organization. Under ISIS law, Shikder's punishment was spelled
out in this document.
B. SHIKDER: The court is nullifying our marriage because I live in America.
FLORES (voice-over): And just when he thought the situation couldn't get worse.
B. SHIKDER: So many days passed, no contact, no info.
FLORES (voice-over): -- his wife was killed in an airstrike. The children suffered burns to their faces and were in the care of ISIS.
Desperate, Shikder traveled to al-Hol camp in Syria. There a boy said he saw Yusif. But he was too late.
Shikder, a naturalize U.S. citizen from Bangladesh, was confident U.S. commandos would save his children. Then U.S. forces began exiting Syria,
leaving his American children behind.
FLORES: Do you feel let down by the U.S. government?
B. SHIKDER: Yes.
FLORES (voice-over): Let down but not defeated. He says his quest is not over until Yusif and Zahra come home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLORES: The U.S. Department of State did not wish to comment on the specifics of this story and of this case.
However, a U.S. Department of State official did tell CNN that at least 13 children have been repatriated from Syria to the United States and added,
in a statement, saying, quote, "The Department of State places the highest priority on the welfare of children, especially with regard to American
children who were forced to live under ISIS' brutal occupation."
This official went on to say that the U.S. is committed to the identification and repatriation of all U.S. citizens. Becky?
ANDERSON: Rosa Flores on the story. Thank you for that.
And a very good example of -- it's a terrible example but at least it gives us some insight into what the U.S. position is.
[11:45:00]
ANDERSON: Many of these children are born to suspected ISIS extremists who have been killed in the war. Western governments find themselves at a
crossroads to repatriate or not. To date, the resounding answer has been no, citing fears that these kids may house extremist ideologies and pose a
threat to society.
I want to bring in for you now Cornelius Williams, UNICEF's global chief of child protection.
Thank you for joining us. Your organization says governments should repatriate foreign children stranded in Syria before it is too late. Not
quite sure what you mean when you say before it's too late. I mean, these children are in terrible conditions in camps.
What's at risk at this point, sir?
CORNELIUS WILLIAMS, UNICEF: First of all, winter is coming. Children are going to suffer from acute respiratory diseases. What's at risk for these
children is that they are being deprived of their childhood. As you rightly said, 80 percent of the children are less than 12; 50 percent of
them are less than five.
And so the developmental opportunities for them to grow into useful citizens, for them to enjoy their childhood, that would be denied.
ANDERSON: Let's talk about what some countries are doing. I want to just give our viewers the view in Belgium, this is one country that's been
outspoken about taking back these kids of ISIS fighters. Have a listen to what the country's justice minister said earlier this year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOEN GEENS, BELGIAN JUSTICE MINISTER: The government is determined to go for the children anyway below 10 years old. That is what we've decided in
December 2017. And that's what we've been trying ever since. So we keep on trying to get those children below 10 back in Belgium.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: So what sort of challenges would a country like Belgium face once they bring these kids back?
Certainly there will be challenges for the children themselves, wouldn't there?
How do they reintegrate back into society?
WILLIAMS: This is a very interesting country -- question. We have said over and over that this is not new for us, OK. We have seen the
reintegration of children who were associated with armed groups and forces. We've done this for decades, in West Africa, done this in Sri Lanka, all
over the world.
What are the issues?
Already 650 of these children from 17 countries have been taken back home.
What are the challenges?
The challenge is to make sure that the services are there, that the kids have good psychosocial support, the psychological care that they would
need, the family support they would need, get them back into school.
So the government would have to put in place a good plan when the children are repatriated and to safely reintegrate them back into society. And if
they have this plan --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: This is --
WILLIAMS: -- if they have a plan they would definitely be done.
ANDERSON: OK. Problem is, there is no plan. You know, at the moment, I mean, Belgium is an outlier, to a certain extent. You can argue it's the
Belgium decision, very different from Australia, vehemently against repatriating any citizens at all. Have a listen to this exchange between a
news anchor and the country's minister for home affairs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are more than 60 Australian women and children in refugee camps in this area in Syria.
Will Australia be moving to get them out?
PETER DUTTON, AUSTRALIA MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS: Again, it's a very complex picture when you look at the individual cases. There are some
people who don't want to come home. There are others that we're told --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are some who do.
DUTTON: And there are others we're told would face -- would -- if they return to Australia, would pose a significant security threat to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: What do you make of what he says?
WILLIAMS: Listen, we're talking about children who are under 5 years old. We're talking about children who are under 12 years old. So I don't think
actually we're talking about children who would become a threat.
[11:50:00]
WILLIAMS: We have said, we should look at it on a case by case basis and on the basic interests of the children. We have done stories actually that
have shown that the reason why these children are associated with these groups, it's because, I mean, it's their families and most of the children
actually it's not because of ideological reasons. We have empirical evidence to support this.
ANDERSON: With that we're going to have to leave it there. We'll have you back on. This is an extremely important story and one that we'll pursue.
Thank you, quick break, viewers, back after this.
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ANDERSON: A couple minutes left. Adam Schiff has just announced public hearings will begin next week. We expect the transcript of the testimony
of the top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine to be released in the coming hours. Here's some of what Schiff had to say just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): In the impeachment inquiry next week, we'll be beginning with testimony of Ambassador Taylor and Ambassador Kent on
Wednesday. And we'll have Ambassador Yovanovitch testify on Friday.
These will be the first of the open hearings. I think you'll see throughout the course of the testimony, not only their testimony but many
others, the most important facts are largely not contested.
We are getting an increasing appreciation for just what took place during the course of the last year and the degree to which the president enlisted
whole departments of government in the illicit aim of trying to get Ukraine to dig up dirt on a political opponent as well as further conspiracy theory
about the 2016 election that he believed would be beneficial to his reelection campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: My colleague, White House reporter, Stephen Collinson is with us.
That sounds like a very confident Adam Schiff. Clearly believes he and his colleagues have built a watertight case against the president at a point,
right?
COLLINSON: Yes, this is an important pivot point in this impeachment process. This is the moment when Democrats will try to make a case
directly to the American people that the president abused his power.
Apart from these transcripts that have been coming out this week, everything has been going on behind closed doors. Schiff is going to bring
back some of those key witnesses in a big televised spectacular, really, which is designed to transfix the country and to turn the public against
the president.
William Taylor, who will testify on Wednesday, is a very important figure. He's probably the biggest witness so far. He was the first person to say
there was a quid quo pro between Trump's release of the military aid to Ukraine and his desire for an investigation into Joe Biden. That was a big
deal when he testified behind closed doors.
[11:55:00]
COLLINSON: Democrats hope that's going to be the case next week. And then on Friday, Marie Yovanovitch, the ambassador who was recalled from Ukraine
by the State Department after weeks of attacks by the president, it looks like she was in the way of this scheme to pressure Ukraine, the off-the-
books scheme run by Rudy Giuliani.
So she's going to be another key figure when she comes up on Friday.
ANDERSON: Stephen Collinson, always a pleasure, sir, thank you. That is the latest on impeachment, some busy days ahead.
I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD. Wherever you're watching, I hope you have a very good evening. From us, it's good night. CNN
continues after this.
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