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Iran Iraq Wracked By Deadly Protests; Protest Continue After Prime Minister's Resignation; Lebanon Faces Uncertainty After Weeks Of Protests. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired December 02, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:01:03]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: This hour, a region in revolt. Plus, one of the biggest humanitarian crises you've probably never heard
of. We speak to the head of the World Food Programme about Burkina Faso. And it's a hoax. Donald Trump moments ago consumed by the impeachment
inquiry as he heads to a NATO meeting in London. And if you speak up, you'll be shot down and in many cases, quite literally.
That's the case in two countries in the Middle East right now because both Iran and Iraq are cracking down violently. On widespread descent in Iran,
at least 100 people have been killed by government forces, it's likely that number is far higher. We're getting a glimpse inside with these images.
They are only seeing daylight around the world. That's how severe the crackdown has been.
We're going to get you to Iraq and - excuse me, to Beirut tonight. But first to Sam on Iran.
SAM KILEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, what we've got here is an extraordinary situation in which it's taken two weeks for any
serious information to emerge from what's been going on there. And it's coming out in dribs and drabs because there's been an internet blackout but
we have been able to get hold of some images that are beginning to try to tell the story.
Amnesty International in the last hour, has said that they put the death toll at least 208, it's climbing as information comes out. This is what
we've been able to assemble so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: Iranian parliamentarians grab and throttle back descent from one of their own. Mohammed (INAUDIBLE) comes from Iran south had sought to
publicize allegations of the mass killing of demonstrators there. He was silenced in Iran's National Assembly by politicians anxious to suppress
news about what may be the worst violence and demonstrations in decades.
The internet has been cut the most of the last two weeks. That images of alleged brutality by the security forces have begun to emerge. Here a
demonstrator chases a plainclothes officer who shoots him in the leg. Human rights groups have said that there have been hundreds of deaths
across Iran since demonstrations began against a sudden 50 percent fuel price hike last month.
The government has said the demonstrators who it calls vandals and thugs had burn 70 gas stations, more than 700 banks and even dozens of ambulances
as Iran's crisis has deepened. Sanctions imposed by the U.S. have hobbled Iran. The IMF saying this year its economy will shrink by almost 10
percent. 10 years ago, a reform movement was violently crushed. Today there's more of a revolutionary drive with opposition leaders saying that
Iran's supreme leader is worse than the Shah that the Islamic Revolution deposed in 1979.
Opposition politician Mir-Hossein Mousavi, who's under house arrest issued a statement that said the killers in 1978 represented a non-religious
regime. The agents and snipers of November 2019 are the representatives of the religious government. At that time, the commander-in-chief was the
Shah. Today is the supreme leader with absolute authority. The language too is shifting from demands for reform to an end to the regime altogether.
But with no leadership or plan, reaching that goal is a desperate prospect. And perhaps a dangerous dream.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: Now, Becky, the reason that those are dangerous dreams is that even though the Trump administration might argue that this is a sign these
revolutionary tendencies emerging in Iran are a sign that the sanctions are working frequently, they're actually entrench the very elements that
they're designed to undermine.
[11:05:10]
KILEY: And we saw that going back all the way to Saddam Hussein. That's the first issue. And the other issue really is the danger that the
hardliners will be not only reinforced by the sanctions, by shrinking economy, but choose to hit back and they have proxies in the Yemen, in
South Lebanon, Hezbollah, Hamas in Gaza, and of course, they're very influential still in Iraq and of course, in Syria too.
ANDERSON: Oh, in Iraq, we see no such blackout. We haven't seen the sort of blackout that we've seen in Iran but the crackdown has been as merciless
as it has been relentless.
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It has, Becky and this is as much as it's being called a revolution against this rampant corruption,
Iraq's political, elite and a shoddy system of governance. It is the youth that are taking to the streets wanting a better future for themselves. But
this is as much a revolution against Baghdad, as it is one against Iran's influence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: They cry for those they love, for those they never met, for the agony of loss today, and that of Iraq's painful past. The sorrowful
lyrics, a traditional Shia morning hymn told from the perspective of the martyr saying farewell to the living. This is Hillah, the predominantly
Shia a capital of the province of Babylon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The beautiful, the oldest civilization in the world from Babylon. We love our country, we love life, so we made this peaceful
demonstration.
DAMON: Our presence prompts an address and English. Those who are here starved to get their message out to an international audience. We need all
the world to support us stop crimes against innocent people. Those crimes reflected in this living piece of Macabre Art. And along the walls leading
to the protest grounds. After all the blood that was spelt, we won't let that go. We won't give up. 22-year-old Tabarek Fadre. She's a recent
college graduate and this is about her future.
It's a future without the chains of Iraq sectarian political parties, without the toxic influence of Iran and other outside powers. Students of
all ages are on strike for going their education until their demands are met. They want to start over, they want a do over when it comes to Iraq's
democracy project and it really is this generation that is forcing about this change. But few places are as calm as this where there is an agreement
with the police to keep the peace.
This is the Local Provincial Council that has been shut down the request of the population. I mean, they've basically gotten rid of the local
government here. They also torch the local offices of all political parties. A reflection of the outrage felt towards the political elite and
their outside patrons. But just a 45-minute drive further south, and the holy Shia City of Nashua, the bloody repression against those who dare
revolt continues.
In the last few days, at least 20 people have been killed, more than 500 wounded. Tech if my son is thirsty, I will drink after him. I'm worried
he died thirsty. This father utterly beside himself cries out. And this little girl, just five years old, was killed by a stray bullet when she was
standing in front of her house. Nashua is where Shia political power lies and Iran's influence is more prominent.
But even here, there is no more tolerance left for the status quo. Protesters have already burned the Iranian consulate and more recently
attacked the shrine of a once revered Shia cleric whose family is now entrenched in Iraqi politics. Despite the crushing pain, there is hope and
determination, a strength even in sorrow, that those you're swear is more powerful than any sectarian force.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: But until they are able to make that dream of a true Democratic nation come true, protesters throughout the country are continuing to stand
their ground, Becky. In Baghdad over the weekend, there were some very intense clashes as protesters were moving away from the main square that
they occupy and trying to take control over the bridges that go across the Tigris River.
[11:10:08]
DAMON: And they say that they're doing this because they don't believe the government's promises, even though the Prime Minister has resigned, and
they still want to keep the pressure up on the government so that - as they'll put it, it does not lie to them again about reform and actually
implements the protesters' demands which are a long list that also include completely changing the electoral law, and to a certain degree, wiping out
all of the country's current political elite.
This is a tall order, a massive challenge, especially given how many different interests they are --that exists that are competing here. And at
the top of that list is of course -- political parties and the militias that it controls.
ANDERSON: Arwa Damon is live from Baghdad for you. More than 400 people are killed across Iraq, then in two months. That is about seven people a
day, seven people shot by their own government for demanding basic services and an end to corruption every single day. Let's get Ben up in Beirut.
And in Lebanon, Ben, peaceful protests for months, groups gathering to hold a vigil outside the Iraq embassy this weekend denouncing the violence in
Iraq and honoring those who have died there. Ben, what's the story on the ground where you are?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, the story in Beirut is that things are relatively quiet compared to what they were a few
weeks ago. It does appear that the reality of Lebanon's profound economic crisis is beginning to take a bit of the edge off of the more boisterous
street protests. We saw and this is going happening against the backdrop of an odd development that came to the fore, the beginning of this month
and that is that the United States is withholding for next year $105 million in military aid to a Lebanese army that since 2005, the United
States has trained more than 30,000 of its officers and soldiers.
The United States provides more than 80 percent of the weaponry that the Lebanese army currently hold, but it appears that the Lebanese army is
becoming victim of the American policy, the policy of the administration of Donald J. Trump of maximum pressure against Iran, its allies, and by
standards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEDEMAN: Lebanon's army is by Middle Eastern standards, small. Since 2005, the United States has given the army more than $2 billion in aid, but
$105 million approved for Lebanon next year is now on hold. And even senior State Department officials don't have a reasons why.
REP. JOHN RATCLIFFE (R-TX): And when aid was first held, withheld from Lebanon, were you given a reason why it was withheld.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
WEDEMAN: Washington supports the Lebanese army as a counterweight to Iranian backed Hezbollah, which is not only a major player in this
country's complex politics, but maintains with Iranian help a well-armed militia. Israeli media reports claimed Israeli officials urged the U.S. to
withhold aid until the government here cracks down on Hezbollah's alleged missile program. But given that Hezbollah is part of the very same
Lebanese that seems unlikely.
Even less likely with the country in turmoil after more than a month and a half of mass protests. Retired Army General Khalil Helou warns that
cutting military aid at this sensitive time hurts U.S. friends, not foes in Lebanon.
KHALIL HELOU, RETIRED GENERAL, LEBANESE ARMED FORCES: Is around decision to punish the armies through or wanting to punish the establishment. But I
think that things will evolve in the next weeks or in the next month, because we have a lot of friends in the U.S. among the militaries and even
among the diplomats.
WEDEMAN: Unlike Ukraine, which also had congressionally approved military aid temporarily suspended. there doesn't appear to be a U.S. domestic
angle in Lebanon's case.
HELOU: Well, as far as I know that Joe Biden has no business in Lebanon or no interest in Lebanon, I don't think so.
[11:15:04]
WEDEMAN: But the U.S. does have interests here. The Lebanese army, I'll be it in parallel with Hezbollah fought and defeated terrorist groups.
Like everything in Lebanon. It's complicated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEDEMAN: And complex that is as it is, however, officials at the State Department and the Pentagon have been urging for these funds to be
released. But what we have seen when it comes to this administration, it can be fickle with foe and friend alike. Becky?
ANDERSON: Ben Wedeman is in Beirut. Appreciate it, Ben. So, Sam witness then push back on Iranian influence by the U.S. in Lebanon, and we have
seen protesters on the streets decrying Iran chaperones meddling in the politics of Lebanon, we see that echoed by protesters in Iraq, and we are
witnessing a crackdown, domestically by the regime itself on its people who are demanding change back home. Where does this go?
KILEY: Well, it's the old cliche, be careful what you wish for. I think is going to be really important, particularly for countries here in the
Gulf region, Saudi Arabia too who are right opposite a nation that is not without power. It has military experience. It has proxies and deep
influential relationships with militia in Iraq. We haven't seen any real response from them yet. They're still trying to figure it out I think.
But which side they're going to come down on when it comes to Iraq inside Syria? They're highly potent. And of course, Hezbollah is a permanent
threat to the - to Israel in the -- in southern Lebanon. So in that context, when they're driven into a corner, what will the government in
Iran react to? Now they may react in the way that the Americans are hoping for as the result of these sanctions to dial down the amount of
international influence they've been exerting and focus more on relieving the poverty at home.
On the other hand, they made seek to diplomatic solution. I think that all of these signs are though, that they're much more likely to go, certainly
for this foreseeable future on a much harder line both domestically and internationally.
ANDERSON: Yes. So if the U.S. were looking for a change in the regime, what they might get in the end is a much -- a much more aggressive, much
more frightening regime than that which we actually have been principal talking about the Rohani government as opposed to the deeper state in Iran
and --
WEDEMAN: Well, exactly right. I mean, Rohani was represented until now on the streets of of Iran, a reformist voice, they're now calling for him to
be tossed out entirely what would remain if he were to go resigned step down. That would be what you call the deep state. That hard line element
that isn't going anywhere and knows how to exercise leavers around the world.
ANDERSON: Watch this space. This is an incredibly important story. Sam, Ben and Arwa providing us the -- not just the story on the ground in three
different places but the context around this, what is happening in Tehran and in - and in Iraq and in Lebanon is not happening in isolation. Thank
you, Sam. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Still, and U.S. President Donald Trump on his way to London for the 70th anniversary NATO meeting.
Just days before a second U.S. House Committee holds an impeachment hearing. The challenges the President will face in London and then back
home are all in play for us here on CONNECT THE WORLD. And we connect you to a humanitarian crisis. Falling through the cracks where the world
should be looking up, next.
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[11:21:41]
ANDERSON: This hour, U.S. President Donald Trump on his way to London for a meeting tomorrow the 70th anniversary of NATO's founding while he is --
the U.S. House will hold another public Impeachment Inquiry or hearing. This one run by the House Judiciary Committee. What happens there could be
a prelude to a full house vote on impeachment. The possible trial in the U.S. senate.
We already know the White House is decided not to send its lawyers to the hearing. But listen to what Mr. Trump said just before leaving for London,
just a narrow so ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Democrats, the radical- left Democrats, the do-nothing Democrats decided when I'm going to NATO - this was set up a year ago. That when I'm going to NATO, that was the
exact time. This is one of the most important journeys that we make as president, and for them to be doing this and saying this and putting an
impeachment on the table, which is a hoax to -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, he's saying this hearing is a year in the making, even though his phone call with Ukraine's president actually happened this past
July. Our White House reporter Stephen Collinson watching all things Trump for us. And Stephen, few days the President will leave behind the
impeachment drama in Washington. It is, though clearly on his mind, no matter which continent he is on.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Certainly, Becky and I think what we're seeing there is the president following the lead of some of his
Republican colleagues on the Sunday talk shows in the U.S. on Sunday, really trying to step up the campaign to discredit the Democrats
impeachment inquiry. What we're seeing this week, as you said, is the action moving from the House Intelligence Committee to the House Judiciary
Committee.
That is the body that will eventually draw up articles of impeachment, effectively the charges which the full house would vote on before
Christmas. What you're not hearing is Republicans or the President really arguing the substance in those two weeks of public televised hearings we
had just before the Thanksgiving break in the U.S. The Democrats did make a pretty good case with the President did pressure Ukraine that he did
withhold military aid to force it to try and investigate a domestic opponent, Joe Biden.
So the tactics of the Republicans are clear, try and discredit this probe, claim it's unfair, and therefore try to sour the public on the issue in
order to spare the present, a serious political backlash in the likely event that early next year he would be acquitted on the charges by the
Republican Senate.
ANDERSON: Well, President Trump has decided of course not to accept an invitation for his attorneys to participate in this impeachment hearing,
which is on Wednesday. His Republican supporters in Congress appearing on the Sunday talk shows to defend that decision and offer Stephen by now
familiar talking points. Criticizing that inquiry, have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM MCCLINTOCK (R-CA): I think would be to the president's disadvantage to have his attorneys there but I can also understand how he
is upset at the illegitimate process that we saw unfold in the Intelligence Committee.
REP. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Whether you like the president or you don't -
[11:25:08]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KENNEDY: We both I know agree with due process. Nobody is above them all, Chuck, but nobody's beneath them all. And the Bill of Rights is not an ala
carte menu.
REP. DOUG COLLINES (R-GA): They want to get this president right now before the -- before everybody completely sees through the process, Sham,
of the elections for next year. So we're rushing this -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Marching to the same drama and perhaps, we might expect that. Republicans, it seems just either haven't got a strategy or they're not
changing what they believe, is their strategy, despite what we are hearing from this inquiry, Steve.
COLLINSON: Well, I think the facts are basically so damning for the president, the only recourse they have is to argue against the fairness of
the inquiry. The President says that what he did with Ukraine was perfect. So there's no recourse for Republicans to say, well, you know what, the
President did do something wrong, but it's not an impeachable offense, Trump won't allow them to go down that road.
So you can see they're very fairly constrained in what exactly they can say. We're going to hear exactly those arguments play out from the
hearings on Tuesday and Wednesday, and going forward in the Full House debate.
ANDERSON: Stephen Collins in the House, it is always a pleasure. Sir, thank you. Stephen, is a regular guest on this show and his analysis and
insight is extremely important to us. And you can find a lot more from Stephen of course @cnn.com. Right. Still to come. Well, so much of the
world looks away. We turn our eyes on Burkina Faso plunged into humanitarian crisis. Why this matters is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:07]
ANDERSON: 14 are people after gunman opened fire inside a church on Sunday. Most places around the world, this would dominate headlines and
send shockwaves through society. But in Burkina Faso, this horrendous violence, a regular part of life, extremist attacks, only rising in West
Africa, as the world mostly looks away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A bus ride turned into a bloodbath. This part of the daily reality of life in Burkina Faso. 39 people were massacred that just weeks
ago in what was one of the worst military attacks in the country in years. And dozens more have been killed since then. A third of the country now a
conflict zone and the world pays little attention, already desperately poor. There is little international help on hand.
Almost half the country's scrapes by on a little more than a dollar a day. Burkina Faso is at the epicenter of a security and humanitarian crisis in
what is known as the Central Sahel region. A vast and violent jihadist insurgency has been raging here for years. Displacing nearly a million
people in Burkina Faso and neighboring Mali and Niger. 26-year-old Sawadogo Ousmane fled 200 kilometers on foot. One of the 2.5 million people
requiring urgent food assistance.
SAWADOGO OUSMANE, FARMER FROM TONGOMAEL: What we need now is food. Everything else can wait on them. Once we get food then we will worry
clothes.
ANDERSON: It is a part of the world where you can run from danger. But you cannot hide from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: David Beasley is the executive director of the World Food Program. His agency is on the ground and he says, if the world is serious
about saving lives, the time to act in Burkina Faso is now. David joins us live. Why, David? Explain. What do you mean by that?
DAVID BEASLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WORLD FOOD PROGRAM: Becky, it's a tragedy and it's a perfect storm coming your way. When you look at the
tragedies around the world, this was being completely ignored. In fact, just in the past few months, about a half a million people in Burkina Faso
alone have been displaced. And if people don't have food, ISIS or al-Qaeda will recruit as well as unwanted and forced migration.
So many complexities here and people need food, they need help in the world seems to be either blindsided or, you know, distracted with Brexit or
Trump, Trump Trump and here we are with the crisis on our hand. That really can make the Syrian crisis look like something pale in comparison.
ANDERSON: Yes. No. One of your colleagues recently writing in The Guardian that the world doesn't need, "another Syria." I mean, what does
your agency mean by that? You're working on the ground, I know you've got colleagues on the ground there specifically, can you just sort of flush out
for us exactly what they are seeing and what the message is?
BEASLEY: Well, you know, Europe sort of waited to dress Syria and look what happened. A nation of 20 million people with several million that
migrated into Europe. And it costs us about 50 cents per day to support a Syrian in Syria. That same Syria and in Berlin or London or France is
anywhere from 50 euros to 100 euros today. And what we find out that for every one percent increase in hunger, that's a two percent increase in
migration, and people don't want to leave home. They don't.
So if the people in Burkina Faso, Mali, Niger, if they have food, they have some degree of security. They will stay home because they don't want to
leave home. But what we're seeing unraveling in this region today is breathtaking. 2000 schools have closed, thousands of people had been
killed. Just in the past few months. A half a million people have been displaced in Burkina Faso alone. Almost a million people have been
displaced just this past year.
The uptick in terms of extremist activity has doubled and tripled per year for the past four to five years. And it's not limiting itself just to
Burkina Faso or Mali or Niger, it's now spreading to the region and touching on the outskirts of Ghana, Togo, Benin, Cote d'Ivoire. So this is
a very complex situation. But here's what's troubling, Becky, when you add this up with a fragile, very poverty stricken area, along with climate
extremes and droughts and flash flooding, you have a perfect storm heading your way.
[11:30:00]
BEASLEY: And the people need to wake up, the United States have been stepping up with funding. Germany has been stepping up with the funding,
E.U. and the U.K. So we're getting some funding, but we're only receiving about 30 percent of the funds that we need to address this calamity.
ANDERSON: Before we move on, who do you need to step up at this point? Come on, let's point some fingers.
BEASLEY: Well, I don't like getting into that, Becky. But I mean, the European Union has been doing well. Germany is truly stepped up lately and
the United States has provided substantial amount of monies. France and I say the United States has given about 275, Germany about 180, and we've
gotten about 12 million for France. And I wish France would step up more because they're really one of the first countries because if we provide
food, it solves so, so many problems.
So we hope that -- hopeful that some of the European countries will step up even more but not just to European countries, countries all over the world.
ANDERSON: I understand. The U.S. embassy last week ordered the evacuation of their staff's children, it is clearly extremely dangerous for diplomats
and aid workers. Geopolitically, who are the biggest players on the ground and whose interest lie in this Sahel region, David?
BEASLEY: Well, you know, after - I will say after the Syrian conflict, but a lot of ISIS moved out of the Syrian area and into the greater Sahel
region and began partnering with al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, in this particular area and they're partnering, collaborating in the most strategic ways and
as you know, based on what you've seen, and you and I've been in some pretty tough territories around the world but this area is very, very
difficult now.
And in fact, what we're seeing extremist groups, they're exploiting, they're creating conflict between different tribes, between different
religious groups. What they're doing is very savvy. And it's quite remarkably, just downright bad. And it's so heartbreaking to see children
out of school, men and women dying as a result of this -- of this catastrophe. And if we don't get the support we need, you really could
have famine like conditions in this reason.
We need the financial support, Becky, because if we get the financial support and I've seen this on the evidence when we come in with a holistic
and comprehensive approach, we can absolutely diminish migration by necessity, we can diminish conflict between herders and farmers, we can
diminish the recruitment by ISIS and al-Qaeda, but so many things that we can do positively.
It's a lot cheaper to do it on the front end and address route calls with resilience and sustainable programs than it is to do it on the back end.
We've seen the evidence of that, it's a lot cheaper to do it right on the front end.
ANDERSON: So, David, we are learning today that due to climate change, a person has to leave their home every two seconds. That is according to
Oxfam today. When it comes to conflict zones, the climate crisis, we know, is exacerbating humanitarian situations. What role does it have in Burkina
Faso?
BEASLEY: Becky, the climate extremes that we're seeing with the changing of the climate, there's been a one-degree increase in the temperature in
the Sahel region. But you've got to be careful because you might see an average rainfall hasn't changed that much. But actually, when the rain
occurs and does occur has changed dramatically. We're seeing the Sahara move down about one kilometer per year.
In fact, I've been inviting members of the Bundestag, members of the U.K. part, the E.U., United States Senate and the House, Democrats and
Republicans to come and see the impact because we're on the ground with water harvesting project. For example, just this year alone, we've
actually rehabilitated over 75,000 acres of land through water harvesting projects that otherwise people would have no hope.
They would they would otherwise be recruited by extremist groups or they would be migrating. But because of these type projects, and literally
within a couple of years, these people are food secure, they sustainable, they don't even need any further help. These the type programs that we're
talking about. Even with climate change, we have solutions that people can survive and thrive if we get the type funding that we need.
ANDERSON: David, your agency does tremendous work. Keep it up. Always good to have you on the show. This is an incredibly important story. It
is untold -
BEASLEY: Thank you, Becky.
ANDERSON: We've told it now, let's get on and do something about it. David, thank you. Coming up. On CONNECT THE WORLD, the unrest in Iran
shows no signs of letting up. We're going to discuss what's next for the country and for the region.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:42:09]
ANDERSON: Well, let's return to one of our -- if not our top story this hour and that is the unrest in Iran. The Far New - Far - sorry, let me
start there, the Fars News Agency reporting 25 protesters were arrested on Sunday in Iran's Western province. The authorities say they participated
in "riots." But that'll be a lenient response by far. Mass protests have been ongoing in Iran since mid-November and it will be met with an
extremely brutal response.
There may be hundreds dead, the problem is the internet has been down for some time. It ran about 65 percent of the moment. So we haven't been able
to see what is going on. It all started when the government announced a 50 percent hike in the price of oil putting more strain on a population
already suffering under the almost unprecedented weight of rounds of crippling U.S. economic sanctions.
Well, Ali Vaez is a regular on our show and the Iran Project Director for the nonprofit NGO Crisis Group. And he joins me now from Washington. U.S.
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told Fox News that the protest -- and let me quote him here, "Have nothing to do with the sanctions we have put in
place." Do you agree with Mike Pompeo?
ALI VAEZ, IRAN PROJECT DIRECTOR, CRISIS GROUP: Not at all. In fact, in the past, the Trump administration had said repeatedly that it was hoping
that the pressure will push the Iranian people to basically in turn put pressure on the regime to change their behavior. So -- and Secretary
Pompeo was special envoy for Iran. Brian Hook said in the beginning of this round of protests that he was very pleased with seeing that the
Iranian people are coming out to the streets and putting pressure on the regime. So I don't think the Secretary is being quite honest here.
ANDERSON: I'm speaking to sources here in the Gulf, who quite frankly say they expect to see the regime double down on what is going on at present,
double down on this descent and potentially ratchet up their agitation elsewhere. And we can see protests about Iranian influence around this
region. What do you expect to happen next, sir?
VAEZ: Look, Becky, without any doubt, the Iranian regime has a track record of not tolerating dissent and using brute force to crack down on
often peaceful protests in Iran. So -- but having said that, we have to realize and take into account that this is a unique context in which they
are operating. In Iran that witness protest in December of 2017, January of 2018, there were protests and more than 100 cities, we didn't see an
internet blackout.
[11:45:08]
VAEZ: We didn't see a very violent crackdown. In fact, maybe less than 20 people were died. And I'm not trying to downsize that. But I'm just
trying to say, more than hundred and 60 people in matter of three days is really disproportionate force that the Iranian government has used this
time around, which I think is indicative of the fact that they see themselves under siege as a result of us maximum pressure strategy.
And so they would nip any kind of social upheaval in the bud out of fear that it might snowball into something bigger that would advance U.S.'
agenda. And because it's also happening at the same time with protests in Iraq and Lebanon, and they see also foreign hands behind what's happening
there. I think it's going to push them to become more entrenched in their position at home, to crack down more violently if this protests continue.
And also to encourage our allies in Iraq and Lebanon to do the same.
ANDERSON: And it's just in, amnesty international says the death toll in Iran's protests that began a little over two weeks ago has risen to at
least 208 people killed. Now you expect to see more death and violence going forward then, sir, briefly.
VAEZ: If this continues, for sure, but you know, the problem is, on the U.S. side, I think the Trump administration now also thinks that maximum
pressure is working. So they are also going to double down on their sanctions. And again, this zero sum situation that we have been in the
past few months, I think is going to continue and that's only bad news for the region.
ANDERSON: With that, we're going to leave it there, sir. Thank you. We're gonna take a very short break. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely all inspiring to see the size of this glacier to see how much ice is coming off that glacier, that's obviously
that going to flow into the world's oceans. It is one of the largest glaciers in Greenland.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're in the Sargasso Sea named after Sargassum, a free floating seaweed dubbed the Atlantic golden rainforest. Under the
cloud like mats, there is an unexpected array of biodiversity. But along with our awe, is also the shocking realization of what we are doing to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Our correspondents traveling from pole to pole, uncovering just how destructive we are being to our ecosystems and ultimately, to ourselves
as the climate crisis worsens, temperatures get more extreme. You may recognize this man -- excuse me, who is was backward and forth to divide
the coldest of winters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What they call me? Kingsley? Oh, Sprague, a man without honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:50:09]
ANDERSON: But the Jaime Lannister is not the only role he has played, now Nikolaj Coster Waldau is getting away from the castles of King's Landing,
and deep into the jungles of the Amazon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKOLAJ COSTER-WALDAU, ACTOR: I saw those images of the Amazon fire and I think like everyone else, I felt shocked, powerless, angry. Why are they
doing this? It doesn't make sense. Which is why I want to come here to Peru and find out why the Amazon is on fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Nicholai, joining me now from Copenhagen. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. So, you know, you clearly wanting to
get out the Amazon, you traveled there. What did you find?
COSTER-WALDAU: Well, I found first immense beauty and I met a lot of amazing people. And of course, I realized that this is very complex, that
yes, they burned down the forest and the farmers and they do it every year. And they do it because they don't have a choice. A lot of these -- they're
very poor. They live from hand to mouth. And this is the way to do it. I mean, I'm from a Denmark, a farming country, the idea of telling a form of
that, hey, by the way, before you start, you know, starting your crops, you're gonna have to make a field every year.
They would tell me, you're insane, that's not sustainable and it's not. And then they know that but they just need the tools and the help to find
other ways. But what was interesting was that we talked about -- I mean, these people, they love the Amazon, this is their home. They are so proud
of it and they understand that burning it is not the right thing to do, but -- and that it accelerates climate change.
ANDERSON: Sure.
COSTER-WALDAU: But it was - there -- what was great was that there are solutions, there are -- there is hope. And I saw places where they
actually came up with ways to live in the Amazon, to grow their crops in a sustainable way. The problem, of course, is at the core of this, you have
extreme poverty, you have inequality. And if you're really poor and you're very hungry, you don't really have time or energy or resources to think
about the greater picture.
And that, of course, is what's hopefully going to happen these two weeks in Madrid at the COP 25.
ANDERSON: Yes. And I want to talk about Madrid going forward because I would like to get a message from you to the leaders there and what we what
you hope we might expect of our global leadership, but just ever since wildfires started to ravage the Amazon this summer. Brazil's president has
been pointing fingers, this week he actually blamed an unusual candidate just ever listen to this, Nikolaj.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An NGO hired paid for photos and fires. So, what did they do? What was the easiest? Set the woods on fire, take a photo, film
it, an NGO spreads it. Launches a campaign against Brazil then gets in touch with Leonardo DiCaprio. And then DiCaprio donates 500,000 to this
NGO.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: It's got to be said Nikolaj, banks now have provided no evidence for these accusations and Leo DiCaprio has refuted the claims. What do you
make of the President's remarks?
COSTER-WALDAU: Well, it's politics, right? I mean, DiCaprio didn't need to put anything on fire was already on fire and it happens every year. As
everybody knows. I think you're hitting on a core issue. And what's frustrating for everyone is that when this whole story broke this summer,
you saw suddenly, not just the Brazilian president, but you also saw suddenly the French president getting into this, who's the biggest and
strongest man competition?
And it kind of diverted attention away from the core issues is that why are they burning? And what is -- what's the cause of this and how do we help
rectify it? Because I didn't meet anyone in Peru when I was there. I met nothing but people who just wanted to protect the Amazon, to under - they
understood the biodiversity is sacred. But of course, if they don't have any options, they're going to have -- they will -- they need to survive.
So yes, politics is sometimes gets in the way.
ANDERSON: Yes. Well, let's get in the way but also, you know, politicians and leaders can write policy provide, you know, a -- an infrastructure at
four for some solutions and to ensure that we are, you know, that we don't have this existential threat hanging over us.
[11:55:10]
ANDERSON: And you mentioned COP25 in Madrid, a little earlier on this program, a dire Oxfam report released today warning that one person every
two seconds is forced from their home because of climate change. So, what kind of leadership can we expect in Spain this week?
COSTER-WALDAU: Well, we need our leaders and we have to insist that our leaders do something which is a little scary for politicians, they have to
think past the next election. They have to think for the future. Because we are at a point now where -- it is the point of no return. But I'm very
hopeful, but I think because I think the message has been spread. We -- in our part of the world have to accept greater responsibility.
Because, you know, one of the arguments you hear all the time is that well, why should we cut emissions if they're still polluting in India or in Asia?
Now China? Well, we have to remember that when that immense growth happened in Asia. That was mainly because we moved our industry out there
because it was cheaper and there was -- it was less regulated. So we have to take responsibility. But I think our politicians do that.
I think they are willing and there are able and hopefully they have the -- they have the mandate, at least from a lot of countries to do something.
ANDERSON: Sure. And with that we're gonna leave it there, Nikolaj. Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on. I'm Becky Anderson.
That was CONNECT THE WORLD.
COSTER-WALDAU: Thank you.
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