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U.S. president Trump and French President Macron Hold Bilateral at NATO Meeting; House Judiciary Committee Will Hold First Impeachment Hearing. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired December 03, 2019 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For the hearings, we don't get a lawyer. We don't get any witnesses. We want Biden. We want
the son, Hunter. Where is Hunter?
We want the son. We want Schiff. We want to interview these people. Well, they said no, can't do it. We can't do it. So when it's fair and it
will be fair in the Senate, I would love to have Mike Pompeo. I'd love to have Mitch. I'd love to have Rick Perry. And many other people testify.
But I don't want them to testify when this is a total fix. You know what a fix is?
It's a fix. Just think of it. Tomorrow, I don't think anybody is going to watch. I'm not Lindsey Vonn, Lindsey Vonn. Tomorrow, think of it. They
get three constitutional lawyers. We get one. That's not even smart, because it's not going to matter. And they take three and they give us
one. Who ever heard of anything like that?
Nobody. I want them to testify but I want them to testify in the Senate where they'll get a fair trial.
QUESTION: What do we want to learn from Adam Schiff's testimony.
TRUMP: Which?
QUESTION: Adam Schiff?
TRUMP: I learned nothing from Adam Schiff. I think he's a maniac. A deranged human being. He grew up with a complex that is very obvious.
He's a sick man. And he lights. He made up my conversation with the president of Ukraine. And one of the reasons people keep talking about it
is that's what they saw. We have a perfectly beautiful 3- or 4-page transcription and then in the other case a 2-page transcription of the
conversation. How many people read that?
A friend of mine called up, great friend of mine, very successful, I didn't like what was said. I said oh, where did you see it?
Did you read it?
I didn't read it. I heard Adam Schiff. I said, that's not what was said. I sent him a copy of what was said. He said this is like this is great.
This isn't what he said. This guy is sick. He made up the conversation. He lied. If he didn't do that in the halls of Congress, he'd be thrown in
a jail. But he did it in the halls of Congress and he's given immunity. This is a sick person. He's a liar. Nancy Pelosi knew he was lying, went
on her show and said he told the truth, so she was lying too. These people are deranged. OK, anybody else.
QUESTION: Mr. Prime Minister, the president suggested that Canada might pull out of USMCA if the U.S. Congress doesn't ratify a deal. Have you
ever made that suggestion directly to the president?
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We have had lots of great conversations about how we're going to keep moving forward to benefit
workers in all three of our countries. I know Ambassador Lighthizer and Deputy Prime Minister Freeland and the Mexican negotiators are engaged very
closely on this issue. We're very, very hopeful we're going to have good news soon.
QUESTION: Mr. Prime Minister --
(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).
QUESTION: Mr. Prime Minister, is it your plan to have discussions about Turkey and its role in NATO with your meeting with the president?
TRUDEAU: I think there's a range of discussions that we're going to have during this meeting. I look forward to having an opportunity to chat with
the president own a range of things but including the various challenges and reflections we have to have and how we make sure that we're responding
to the real challenges the world sees right now.
QUESTION: And do you have any time to talk about these extradition of --
TRUDEAU: We will absolutely be bringing up the issue of China and the detainees.
Thank you very much, everybody.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: All right. You have just been listening to the U.S. president Donald Trump and the Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau
in a bilateral meeting.
It really is got to be said, show time today for the U.S. president, a freewheeling Donald Trump, doing well, quite frankly, his foreign policy
file, as the U.S. president presents his sorts on a smorgasbord of issues. He's in London for a meeting of NATO celebrating ostensibly the alliance's
70th year.
[11:05:00]
ANDERSON: But Donald Trump really taking the opportunity to work the cameras who are available to him across the London meetings. This was
Macron's latest iteration today.
He has just wrapped up that meeting, during which the U.S. president railed against the Democrats and their impeachment. Earlier, a quite public spat
between the U.S. and the French president, Donald Trump referring to recent comments by Emmanuel Macron about NATO being brain dead as "insulting" and
"nasty" setting a backdrop for a very testy meeting.
We've got correspondents deployed throughout London for you and beyond, tracking today's events. Max Foster is outside Buckingham Palace in
central London; Nic Robertson is standing by.
Stephen Collinson is in Washington. And a little later this hour I'll have Sam Kiley with me here in Abu Dhabi.
Let me start, if I can, with Nic Robertson.
What a day, really. We've spent most of the day, Nic, listening to the U.S. president Donald Trump, as I say, in sort of freewheeling style.
What do you made of what you have heard today?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, look, over 50 minutes with Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary general; over half an
hour with Emmanuel Macron; about 20 minutes with Trudeau.
The biggest points of tension and fireworks have been with Macron. When President Trump says, hey, would you like to take some of your ISIS
prisoners back, Macron says let's get real, talk about the real problem with ISIS. That's a point of contention there, the French president really
standing up to President Trump.
Also on the point of Turkey, Macron essentially taking President Trump to task and President Trump says he's got a good relationship with Turkey and
the president. Macron says Turkey buying these Russian surface-to-air missile systems, that's something that's got to be tackled, talked about.
So you had full frontal diplomacy that I think in many times would be seen behind closed doors. It was also frankly kind of amazing to watch
President Trump just now with Justin Trudeau, the Canadian prime minister, put him on the spot about Canada's contributions, financial contributions
to NATO, its percentage of defense spending.
He said, what's your number?
What's your percentage?
He didn't quite get an answer. So he asked again and Trudeau tries to step around it and says, look, we've increased it 70 percent over the last year.
Trudeau guess on to say it's 1.4 percent. NATO says 1.31 percent.
President Trump really doing things that I think conventionally would happen behind closed doors and this, of course, has been the concern of
these NATO leaders going into these meetings with President Trump, because they know he is unpredictable, they don't know what they are going to get.
Yes, across a massive smorgasbord of issues. President Trump now talking about and affecting the international markets, saying he might not get a
trade deal done with China until after the presidential election next year. So big things happening on full public display, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes. We are keeping an eye on the stock markets by the way. The Dow Jones down 450 points today.
I want to get back to that meeting with the French president, Emmanuel Macron. We can only describe it as testy. I want to bring in Stephen
Collinson here.
It was testy but the U.S. president, in sort of typical fashion, as it were, going back and forth, spinning around on a dime with his narrative,
also taking an opportunity to compliment the French president. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We do a lot of trade with France. We have a minor dispute I think we'll probably be able to work it out. But we have a big trade
relationship and I'm sure that within a short period of time things will be looking very rosy, we hope. That's usually the case with the two of us.
We've had a lot of good things. We've done a lot of good things together as partners. Our countries have been partners in many good ventures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:10:00]
ANDERSON: He did also describe the European Union, Stephen, as a bloc set up sort of against -- I can't quite remember how he described it -- but to
take on the United States. Of course the U.S. has always been incredibly supportive of this European integration project.
What have you made of what you have heard today?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's fascinating. It's been a tour de force of Trumpism, making policy on the fly,
contradicting himself, even on some occasions and giving us a window on to how American foreign policy, which was for decades the anchor of global
stability, is now basically the function of Trump's own erratic style, which is often, you know, framed without much forethought and is very
instinctual. It must be very difficult to deal with him.
We saw in that photo op with Macron this mix of flattery and threats that the president tries to use to get his way. It's very interesting because
Macron started his engagement with Trump 2.5 years ago by trying to establish himself as the key European leader in dealing with the president.
That has changed as Macron's own political fortunes and priorities have changed. He now seems to see some kind of advantage in, at least on the
issue of NATO, confronting the president. He's, in fact, putting Trump in the odd position of actually being NATO's defender against Macron's
criticisms.
Macron is, in some ways, behaving in quite a Trumpian fashion. He is behaving as the disruptive force who is prepared to say politically
incorrect things. He talked about the brain death of NATO because U.S. had lost focus. So that's an interesting dynamic.
But I think, overall, this is clearly a president who is trying to inject himself back into the political conversation in the United States, even as
he's trying to dominate this summit abroad. I think he's showing increasing confidence that he's able to wield his power over foreign
leaders.
And it's a symptom, I think, of the fact that all the restraining forces around Donald Trump in terms of foreign policy, former Defense Secretary
James Mattis, former secretary of state Rex Tillerson, they've all been removed. American foreign policy is now what comes out of Donald Trump's
head at any moment at any given time.
ANDERSON: Stephen, stand by. Your insight and analysis extremely important to us. I've got Sam Kiley with me here.
And just to point out that Donald Trump calling those Emmanuel Macron comments about NATO being brain dead, as "insulting" and "nasty," Mr.
Macron and President Trump were at odds over Turkey. Have a listen to what the U.S. president said when asked if there is still a place for Turkey in
NATO after its invasion into Syria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I'd have to ask the other countries. I have my own views but I wouldn't say it here. Good relationship with Turkey. We left their
border. We've been on their border long enough. They're doing just fine. I kept the oil. The only people we have over there, we have a few a small
group that are fighting the remnants of ISIS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: This is a meeting, after all, of NATO leaders on the occasion of the alliance's 70th anniversary.
Sam, is Turkey the biggest threat for NATO's political cohesion at this point?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's certainly the most immediate non-philosophical threat. There's a real military diplomatic
issue. It is buying weapons, very sophisticated surface-to-air weapons, the S-400 from Russia, which is no longer a NATO enemy but it's certainly a
rival, a certainly cause for concern.
Russia, China and Iran planning to do naval exercises in the Indian Ocean just this month coming up. A symbol of how disruptive an influence Russia
is. NATO is trying to put together a response to potential threat in the Baltics. Turkey is standing in the way of that. So there is a lot of
serious real tensions with Turkey.
In the background you had the last NATO meeting, Donald Trump, pre-NATO, talking about what's the point?
He's now rushing to the defense of it because Mr. Macron has accused it of brain death.
[11:15:00]
KILEY: I think actually in the end those two presidents probably agree about what the future of NATO is, which -- and this is something that NATO
itself is discussing -- is more about the defense of European and Western values than it is about so much broader agenda.
And that does mean much more involvement and more effort coming from the Europeans. But it still doesn't solve the issue of the only predominantly
Muslim nation within NATO. And also there is a real dissonance over northern Syria and I thought it was fascinating.
We've now got the sound teed up. I know you'd enjoy it. It's also, as Macron says here, a serious matter. This is a French president getting in
the face of the American president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Would you like some nice ISIS fighters?
You can take every one of want.
MACRON: Let me tell you, number one priority because it's not finished, is to get rid of ISIS and these groups. This is our number one priority. And
it's not a -- I'm sorry to say that. You see fighters. In Syria and now in Iraq and more and more and for the whole destabilization of the region
makes it more difficult to fix the situation against ISIS.
TRUMP: This is why he's a great politician, because that was one of the greatest non-answers I've ever heard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: You've got extraordinary body language there with pointing and gestures. The French president saying to the American president, your
claims of having defeated ISIS 100 percent are nonsense. And the American president shooting back, saying, that's just politics. It's an
extraordinary moment.
But these two do actually get along. In the past, Donald Trump very impressed by the Bastille Day celebrations. It was witnessing those that
provoked him into wanting to have similar demonstrations in Washington. So you've got this interesting friction going on.
But on ISIS, this is a moment in which a European leader is signaling, not just to the Americans that they're wrong, but signaling to his European
colleagues that they're going to have to fall in behind him. He is taking a leadership role among the Europeans within NATO here.
It will be very, very interesting to see, in an election week, how Boris Johnson, for example, plays up to this. This is not his comfort zone. He
is not a popular figure among European leaders.
ANDERSON: Fascinating stuff. Stick around. I want to get to the markets. Because as we were discussing slightly earlier with Stephen Collinson,
freewheeling Donald Trump alluding to the possibility that there may not now be a deal with the Chinese, a trade deal with the Chinese.
He says he can cut it at any time and do it on his own. Well, there may not be one before the election. Now these markets are on the tip today,
it's got to be said. They're knocked down as much as it was, off its lows of day. It was down nigh on 2 percent but it's off some 400 points and we
are only midway through as it were the morning session.
Let's get to Clare Sebastian. She is standing by in New York -- Clare?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Off the lows of the session but those comments by Donald Trump, that there may not be a trade deal, he thinks,
until after the 2020 election, delivering a serious jolt.
We've seen a bit of a rally over the last few weeks fueled by optimism about a phase one deal with China. People were looking for that to happen
in the next two weeks. We're bumping up to another deadline, the next wave of tariffs on Chinese goods, consumer goods set to go into force on
December 15th if there is no deal.
That will hit smartphones. Apple stock down sharply on the Dow. That is a real problem. This is about the U.S. consumer. If more tariffs come in,
this will start to hit the consumer, which is the strongest point of the economy here and insulated from the trade war for the most part so far.
So this is why the markets are on nerves, also because don't forget, on the eve of this NATO summit, President Trump opened up the trade war on another
couple of fronts threatening tariffs against Brazil and Argentina and France, inviting the notion that no one is safe from tariffs.
ANDERSON: Yes. Clare, thank you for that. The markets down just shy of 400 points as we speak.
All right, let me get you, finally before we take a very short break, to Max Foster, who's standing by in a very busy London today.
[11:20:00]
ANDERSON: Hard to keep up with where Donald Trump is and who he's speaking to. It doesn't really matter today who's in the room with Donald Trump,
because he's freewheeling and giving us a smorgasbord of foreign policy issues, sort of making it up as he goes along, as Stephen Collinson has
described it.
But we know where you are. You are outside Buckingham Palace.
Where is Donald Trump headed next?
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's at Winfield House. He'll head to Clarence House, just behind the camera here next, where he'll be
having tea with Prince Charles. The first lady will be there and the Duchess of Cornwall. I've been told they have a warm relationship. They
had tea before and now they have a follow-up. I'm told they have a good working relationship, which is fascinating because they're different
characters and have different agendas, most notably on the climate change.
After that they'll head to Buckingham Palace, always interesting to see Donald Trump with the queen, because, if you think about it, she's probably
the one person he does defer to on the international stage and he never divulges much of his conversations with her.
It will be interesting, whether or not Boris Johnson will turn up. We'll see them together a bit after that at a reception at Downing Street.
ANDERSON: Superb. Thank you, Max.
As the sun goes down over Buckingham Palace, we'll take a quick break. It is 21 minutes past 8:00 here in Abu Dhabi.
We will speak to a former Supreme Allied Commander for NATO about where the alliance is as it celebrates its 70th. And what's next. That after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: A testy press conference between the U.S. president and his French counterpart today laying bare the challenges that NATO is facing and
the often differing views of its members on how to tackling the funding of the alliance, ISIS fighters, NATO member Turkey cozying up to Russia, Iran
just to name a few.
[11:25:00]
ANDERSON: President Macron was asked whether he stood by his comment from last month, that NATO is experiencing a brain death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE: I do stand by it and I have to say, when you look at what NATO is and should be, first of all, this is a burden
we share and President Trump just reminded you of some figures.
And the fact that this is perfectly true that the U.S. overinvested decade after decade and is number one by far. And I do share the statement.
That's why I'm a strong supporter of the stronger European component in NATO.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Retired General Wesley Clark commanded Operation Allied Force in the Kosovo War during his term as NATO's Supreme Allied Commander for
Europe. He joins us from Paris.
And I'm delighted that you are with us today. Emmanuel Macron not rowing back on his comments that NATO is suffering a brain death.
Do you agree?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, you know, NATO's existed for 70 years. It's been crucial to European security and it
lurches from crisis to crisis. This is a very small crisis. NATO needs to think its way forward.
But NATO is fundamentally a political alliance more than a military alliance. So it's developed to enable nations to concert their policies.
Nations should be working together on common security challenges. And this is the essence of what President Macron was suggesting.
So it's all well and good to seek more military contributions to their own defense programs. But the essence of the alliance is unified political
action. And that's what I hope we'll see in the future from NATO.
ANDERSON: If the U.S. president has been consistent in anything during his three years in office, sir, it has been that he is no fan of the alliance,
although I have to say in his sort of freewheeling narrative today, he's actually congratulated himself for the alliance's strength under sort of
his stewardship, as it were.
Just how damaging has the U.S. position during this President Trump administration been for the reputation and strength of NATO?
CLARK: What we like to see in NATO, we like to see the arguments behind closed doors. We like to see the heads of state shaking hands and smiling
and agreeing because, historically, this has given NATO its strength to deter aggression. It shows a unified front.
But President Trump really, it's not just about NATO. He really doesn't like international agreements and international organizations. It's in
contrast to his America first slogans. And so NATO's borne some criticism from the president.
But I think NATO is strong enough to survive.
The question is, can we continue to use NATO?
All the people, the soldiers, the diplomats are unified. We all believe NATO is important.
Will the president use his European allies to work together?
Should we be working with our European allies, for example, on trade policy with China?
There's a huge issue about transfer of technology with China. The Chinese should be met not only by the United States but by Germany, France,
England, all the other countries of NATO, who also have technology that's leaking out to China uncompensated and causing difficulties.
So this is the kind of policy that NATO, during the Cold War, could adapt and control the transfer of technology behind the Iron Curtain.
Why can't NATO work together on trade policy and technology policy with China?
But it doesn't seem to yet have been used for this.
ANDERSON: General Wesley Clark is with us. I'm going to take a very short break but please stay with us. You've got an awful lot of value to add to
this coverage.
Before we take that break, stand by, the general there alluding to China. Here is what the alliance's secretary general had to say earlier about
China's rising influence.
[11:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: It's not about moving NATO into the South China Sea but it's about taking into account the fact that China
is coming close. We see them in the Arctic, in Africa, investing heavily in European infrastructure. Of course we see China in cyberspace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We are going to discuss that and more after this very short break. We are covering the NATO meeting in London. U.S. president Donald
Trump there. We are hearing an awful lot from him today.
I've got General Wesley Clark standing by to discuss what we have heard and what happens next with this alliance as it celebrates its 70th anniversary.
All that coming up after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: Back to our conversation with retired General Wesley Clark who served as NATO's Supreme Allied Commander for Europe from 1997-2000. We
are speaking to the general as leaders of NATO countries meet to mark the alliance's 70th anniversary and to discuss where the alliance goes next.
And there are, General, competing narratives amongst its members about what happens next. The French president calling the brain death of the
organization; the U.S. president railing against other members for not paying their dues.
[11:35:00]
ANDERSON: You and I discussing earlier about China's rising threat and about what the -- or certainly its rising influence and what NATO may do to
counter that.
We know that there are sort of factions within NATO, discussing what its role might be going forward. And this is an organization where, an
alliance where there have always been arguments which has probably made it fit for purpose, as it were, over the years.
What do you make of its direction now, where it stands now and where it's going?
CLARK: Well, I think NATO has to continue to focus on the challenges, first among its eastern European allies. From the Baltics to the Balkans,
east European countries are under the threat of let's call it hybrid warfare from Russia.
Russia would like -- Mr. Putin would like his empire back. So it starts with Ukraine, where Russia seized Crimea and illegally occupies it. It's
perpetuating a conflict in the Donbas and all through eastern Europe.
Russian influence through social media, through conventional media, through corruption and other means of intimidation, is a provocation, a threat to
these nations. They're looking to NATO and particularly to the United States for
protection.
So you can be sure that what's going on in the United States with the discussion of Ukraine cuts very close to the heart and raises some concerns
among European allies. But NATO also has to be concerned with instability to the south. NATO missed a historic opportunity and an important
challenge in not dealing with the refugee crisis from Syria four or five years ago. NATO should have done that and the United States should have
led it and we didn't.
And as a result, Europe has had to deal with the influx by itself without the leadership of the alliance that should have been there to deal with
this challenge. And I think French president Macron has a very valid point when he says we have to still be concerned with ISIS and terrorism.
And then there's the broader economic challenge and that's where China comes in. You don't see China as a military threat so much right now as an
economic challenge. But that challenge is built on bringing technology in from the West; at least it has been for 30 years.
China is now actually -- it's producing more patents and more intellectual property than the United States. So it's becoming an intellectual giant in
its own right. But it's still out there, scavenging Western technologies. So NATO has to be concerned in all these three directions.
ANDERSON: It's fascinating; as we sit here in the Middle East, we discuss in this region the influence of China. Somebody remarked to me the other
day, General, that the U.S. has been fighting wars in the Middle East for 20 years and never winning.
China has never fought a war here and has been winning for 20 years. Some interesting analogies when you sort of -- when you drill down on where
China's influence is today and how different parts of the world might counter that.
Just have a listen to the NATO secretary general earlier on his early meal with Mr. Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STOLTENBERG: It was, as always, a great breakfast and we had omelette and some sausages and brown toast and oranges. So that was a great breakfast
and, as always, paid by the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: "And as always, paid by the United States."
We know what he was getting at there. I just wonder, I mean, you know, those who know Donald Trump says he responds to a bit of a joke, he
responds to things not being too sort of precious.
How do you think Stoltenberg deals with and may deal with going forward, you know, a two-term President Trump?
CLARK: Well, I think that it's very much in President Trump's inclination to downplay alliances and not to rely on them.
[11:40:00]
CLARK: President Trump is seeking, whether he's enunciated it clearly or not, a different alignment. He believes that the United States needs to
work directly with Russia, China, Turkey and other major powers and move away from the 70-year-old reliance on and partnership with Western Europe
that emerged out of the Second World War.
You know, our partnership was always founded on a sort of tacit understanding that the United States wanted to be sure that no hostile
power could control Europe and, in return, the Europeans were grateful for the United States' taking the bulk of the military obligations, although as
they always said, the fight, if it ever had occurred during the Cold War, would have occurred primarily on European soil.
So that's the old relationship that President Trump is challenging. The trouble with the challenge is that, in terms of values, culture and
institutions, Western Europe and the United States, along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, they're our closest partners in the world.
The United States also has bilateral treaties with Japan and Korea that also share our values. When you work beyond that with China and Russia,
these are countries that don't share our values.
So when it comes down to the bottom line of what national interests are, it's really not about money. It is about values and institutions. It's
about democracy. It's about human rights. It's about the rule of law. That's what we're about protecting and promoting.
And so there's a certain risk, if you let go of this alliance too much that you'll lose the means to protect and defend your own values in the process.
And that's the challenge that we'll see in the United States and in NATO going forward, if President Trump is re-elected, I believe.
ANDERSON: We're going to take another very quick break. I'm going to keep you with me. General Wesley Clark in the house. As we have NATO leaders
including the U.S. president in London. We can take a very short break. We're going to talk Turkey and ISIS fighters with Wesley Clark after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: A testy press conference earlier today in London between the U.S. president and his French counterpart laid bare the challenges that
NATO faces as it celebrates or marks at least its 70th anniversary.
[11:45:00]
ANDERSON: And the often differing views of its members, on how to tackle them, the funding of the alliance, ISIS fighters, NATO members cozying up
to Russia, Iran. These are a few. President Macron was asked whether he stood by his present from last month that NATO is experiencing a brain
death. This is what he said earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACRON: I do stand by it and I have to say, when you look at what NATO is and should be, first of all, this is a burden we share and President Trump
just reminded you of some figures.
And the fact that this is perfectly true that the U.S. overinvested decade after decade and is number one by far. And I do share the statement.
That's why I'm a strong supporter of the stronger European component in NATO.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We can't let Wesley Clark go. He is still with us. He commanded Operation Allied Force in the Kosovo War. He is urging his term
as NATO Supreme Allied Commander for Europe from 1997 to 2000, joining us today from Paris.
I want to pick up on a couple of things that we have heard today. Just some lines on Turkey and on NATO. I just want our viewers who may not have
heard this a moment ago, it's important to get the general's reaction. So let's just take a listen to what President Trump said when asked if there
is still a place for NATO -- for Turkey, sorry, in NATO after its invasion into Syria.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I'd have to ask the other countries. I have my own views but I wouldn't say it here. Good relationship with Turkey. We left their
border. We've been on their border long enough. They're doing just fine on their border. We kept the oil. I kept the oil.
The only people we have over there now, we have a few that a small group that are fighting the remnants of ISIS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We're talking today about where NATO is at as it marks its 70th anniversary and where it is headed.
Sir, what do you make of those comments from the U.S. president?
And is Turkey the biggest threat for NATO's political cohesion?
CLARK: Well, I think that Turkey has been a faithful member of the alliance almost from the beginning. And every nation in the alliance has
its own national interests. And in this case, Turkey's interests are diverging from alliance policies and so American interests.
The question is, how will those differences be absorbed within the NATO mechanism and machinery?
And I think they will be. I think Turkey has an important role to play in the alliance. I think it will remain in the alliance. There will be some
frictions and some differences.
I would hope that President Erdogan doesn't attempt to use too much leverage against other NATO policies to get back at the United States
because, when nations do this, there are many, many different forms of leverage, as we saw in the discussions today.
If you want to apply leverage on defense policies, OK, fine but then there's leverage on economic policies and interest rates and other things
that affect national economies. And the United States is sitting at the nexus of incredible international power, not just military but economic and
political and diplomatic.
And I don't think Turkey wants to get into a shoving match with the United States on some of these policies. I think President Trump was smart in the
way that he phrased this and I think that we'll get through this juncture in allied relationships.
ANDERSON: Been a pleasure having you on, sir. Thank you for taking this much time out of your day as you have done. Your insight and analysis
extremely valuable. It's a pleasure having you on.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. We are taking a very short break on what is a very busy news day, not least for the U.S. president, who's been
freewheeling his way through news and press conferences in London as NATO leaders gather for a meeting there, marking the alliance's 70th. Back
after this.
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[11:50:00]
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TRUMP: The impeachment witch hunt, it's really just a continuation of the hoax that's been taking place for the last three years. I think it's a
very bad thing for our country. Does it cast a cloud?
Well, if it does, then the Democrats have done a very great disservice to the country, which they have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, President Trump is on the world stage today in London at a gathering of NATO leaders. He didn't deny there is a cloud hanging over
his visit. The impeachment inquiry back home moving full steam ahead.
Today we're expecting the House Intelligence Committee to release a crucial report on what it's found so far, laying out its case for impeaching the
president. Meanwhile as you heard in London, Mr. Trump is fiercely defending himself, completely dismissing the charges he may face. And
House Republicans are backing him all the way.
With me now, regular guest on this show, Stephen Collinson.
To say there is a cloud back home is somewhat of an understatement. It has to be said. Let's just consider, ahead of this report being released by
the Democrats, where the two sides of the divide now stand on this. Tell our viewers where the Democrats are and how the Republicans are rebutting
this strategy.
COLLINSON: Well, the Democrats are about to move from the investigation phase of this inquiry, which we've been going through for the past few
weeks with televised hearings, into the prosecution phase.
They are going to move from the House Intelligence Committee to the House Judiciary Committee. That would be the body that would draw up articles of
impeachment, basically the charges that Trump would face. And we expect a full House vote on those charges that he abused his power by seeking
political favors in Ukraine by Christmas.
So that's where the Democrats are full speed ahead. They believe they have momentum, given that 50 percent of people in America now want President
Trump impeached and removed, according to CNN polling.
Having said that, the Republicans believe they're in a good position, too. The House Republicans released a report yesterday on the hearings that we
had two weeks ago, basically arguing that President Trump did nothing wrong whatsoever; that Rudy Giuliani's back-door diplomatic effort in Ukraine was
quite fine, that the call that Trump had with President Zelensky was, as the president said, perfect.
So they are standing full square behind the president in his defense. This I think really exemplifies the tribalized political divides we're seeing in
the United States towards the Trump presidency.
ANDERSON: Let's have a very brief listen to what Mr. Trump had to say about the inquiry during his meeting with the Canadian prime minister.
[11:55:00]
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TRUMP: I'd like him to testify but these are very unfair hearings. And this gives these unfair witch hunt hearings as an example I just heard
today, they get three constitutional lawyers. It's all nonsense, they're just wasting their time. And we get one.
Nobody has to know anything about constitutional law but they get three and we get one. Ah, that's not sounding too good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Your 30-second closing thought, Mr. Collinson.
COLLINSON: What we saw today was the president's defense. He doesn't address the charges. He creates this fog of misinformation, misdirection
to create ambiguity and confusion in the minds of anybody that's been trying to follow this and can't quite work what's going on, despite the
fact that multiple witnesses have said that the president did abuse his power by pressuring Ukraine.
ANDERSON: Stephen Collinson is in the house.
It has been a busy day in London for the U.S. president, who will soon take a break from NATO meetings to have a spot of tea with Britain's Prince of
Wales. Officials say Donald Trump and Prince Charles have developed a good working relationship since this summer's state visit to the U.K.
Stay with CNN. We are on this story and we will continue to be on it in the hours ahead. I'm Becky Anderson. And that was CONNECT THE WORLD from
Abu Dhabi. Thank you for watching.
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