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Huge Crowds Turn out to Mourn Killed Iranian General; Iran Abandons Nuclear Deal Limits Over Soleimani Killing; U.S. and Iran Trade Warnings After Soleimani Killed; Oil Prices Have Risen Since U.S. Strike on Soleimani; Three Americans Killed in Attack on Kenya Military Base; Deadly Fires Continue to Rage in Australia; Iranian Military Adviser Says We Will Respond Militarily to U.S.. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired January 06, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Well you are unlikely to see this anywhere else in the world. As far as the eye can see, Iranians on the streets over the

death of a beloved military general. We are in Tehran.

And it looks like the end of the world, Australia's military flying into hell to battle apocalyptic fires.

And Russell Crowe's message to the world at the golden globes.

Right now it is 6:30 in the evening in Tehran, 10:00 in the morning in Washington. It is 7:00 at night here in Abu Dhabi, home of CNN's Middle

East programming hub. Welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson.

Our big picture this hour is all about Iran versus the United States. In there are two massive dimensions to it. First the Iran Nuclear Deal, well,

it's dead and gone effectively. We'll explain that in a moment. Second, we are watching a situation that looks like it could turn into a

devastating conflict of revenge and retaliation.

Well it made revenge and mourning, worshippers carrying the coffin of the revered Iranian military leader Qasem Soleimani who was killed last Friday

by a U.S. air strike. Can you see the depth of feeling in these extraordinary images. A sea of people flooding the streets of Tehran

earlier today as funeral processions began. Iranian state TV putting it at a staggering number in the millions. Though of course, CNN cannot confirm

that.

So now let me talk you through the geopolitics of those scenes. You've seen this on our show before, long and complex. It is the Iran Nuclear

Deal, JCPOA -- 33,000 odd words. But let me tell you, we won't be needing a copy of this anymore. It's dead in the water. Iran declaring it won't

follow through on it anymore, and it will enrich as much uranium, that's stuff that can be used to help you make a nuclear bomb as it likes. The

deal has effectively been on life support ever since President Trump unilaterally abandoned it almost two years ago but now it is over.

And that's just the first geopolitical consequence. The second that we are watching, a promise of retaliation from both sides. One of the country's

top advisers telling CNN the response will come in the form of military power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOSSEIN DEHGHAN, MILITARY ADVISOR TO IRAN SUPREME LEADER (through translator): For sure no American military staff, no American political

center, no American military base, no American vessel in the world will be safe. If he says 52 sites, we say 300, and they are accessible to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well he's referring to President Trump's threat to target up to 52 Iranian cultural sites if Iran were to retaliate for the death of Qasem

Soleimani. And the President is defending it despite it being considered a war crime under international law. So that's Iran promising to strike back

in revenge for the general's killing, and the U.S. saying it will strike back for that strike. This is a dangerous specter.

Well CNN covering this story as you will expect from us. We'll get some deep analysis from Christiane Amanpour later in the show. For now though

Fred Pleitgen is standing by in Tehran for you. In London we've got chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, and here with me in Abu Dhabi,

our senior international correspondent, Sam Kiley, and emerging markets editor John Defterios.

Let me start with you, Clarissa. And we have just heard from Donald Trump tweeting, Iran will never have a nuclear weapon, all caps. Where are we

at?

[10:05:00]

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, I think certainly European leaders are fearing very much that with the news that

Iran basically will no longer abide by any of the constraints put on them by JCPOA that, in fact, Iran could potentially be one step closer to

obtaining or working on some kind of a nuclear weapon.

I think the fact that President Trump chose to execute that tweet in all caps is not really going to give any European leaders any sense of

reassures that the strategy regarding Iran is being carried out with a cool and calm head. I certainly think what we have seen both from the British

Prime Minister Boris Johnson but also the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, as well as French President Macron is what amounts essentially not to a

rebuke directly of President Trump's policies towards Iran but let's say an implicit rebuke.

We have heard German foreign minister in a radio interview just saying how very concerned he is. That this is the first step towards Iran essentially

breaking away towards a complete decimation of that Iran deal -- which you just demonstrated with your shredder on our air. And this is the real

concern. That all of the path -- the steps that are being taken by the U.S. right now are only adding fuel to the fire. European leaders

desperately wanting to see some kind of de-escalation. In fact, they released a statement, Macron, Merkel and Prime Minister Johnson. I'm just

going to read a short excerpt of it.

There is now an urgent need for de-escalation. We call on all parties to exercise utmost restraint and responsibility. The current cycle of

violence in Iraq must be stopped. We specifically call on Iran to refrain from further violent action or proliferation and urge Iran to reverse all

measures inconsistent with JCPOA.

We have also heard the German foreign minister saying that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was not very pleased when he had a phone call over the

weekend with European secretaries of state who essentially do not see eye to eye with the U.S. on the issue of Iran and how it's being handled with

very real fears that this is spiraling, Becky, out of control.

ANDERSON: Fred Pleitgen joining us from Tehran. I'm going to get to the very latest from a number of stakeholders on what is going on. But I just

want to confirm with you, the decisions made by the Iranians today, with regard this JCPOA. Happened to come today but were expected as far as I

understand. And whatever has happened over the past 96 hours or so, correct?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they certainly were expected for quite a while. Of course Iranians have been

saying that they are going to continuously withdraw, as they say, withdrawal from their commitments to the JCPOA -- to the nuclear agreement

-- while at the same time not leaving the JCPOA altogether. It was interesting to see that nuance in a lot of the Iranian statement.

Where for instance Javad Zarif, the foreign minister, came out yesterday and said there were no more restrictions on the amount of centrifuges that

they could have. They didn't want to restrict themselves anymore to the amount of uranium enrichment either. But at the same time, they also said

that all of this could be reversed and that they could start working together again with the International Atomic Energy Agency if, in fact,

they feel that the other parties, as they put it, to the JCPOA, come back to the nuclear agreement.

Specifically, of course, what the Iranians are trying to do is they are trying to put pressure on European countries. And they essentially want

the European countries to start doing business with Iran despite the fact of course, that that would lead to major problems and sanctions from the

United States.

But you're absolutely right, Becky, this is a process that's been going on with the Iranians. These are steps that had been announced by the

Iranians. But of course, it does come at a very delicate and very tense time here in the Middle East. And of course, also between these parties to

the nuclear agreement as well -- Becky.

ANDERSON: We are watching, as you speak, these extraordinary images out of Tehran today. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, and we can't confirm

that. But that's certainly what authorities in Iran are saying of people on the street mourning Qasem Soleimani's death. His daughter has spoken

again. This time at his funeral with harsh words for the U.S. President, Fred. Let's just have a listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZEINAB SOLEIMANI, DAUGHTER OF QASEM SOLEIMANI (through translator): Hey, crazy Trump you are the symbol of stupidity and a toy in the hand of the

international Zionists. Don't think that by assassinating my father everything is finished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And she also warned that her father's death will bring darker days for the U.S. and Israel. And she claims the actions of U.S. have

brought Iran and Iraq closer.

[10:10:02]

Fred, your thoughts.

PLEITGEN: Well, I mean, obviously these are the threats we heard from Qasem Soleimani's daughter. It's something that we heard from many people who

were on the ground. I was actually at that demonstration as well there in the crowds and there certainly was a great deal of anger.

I've been to a lot of protests here in Iran before and the vibe was certainly one of fury with a lot of people and of calling for retribution

as well. There's a lot of people who were holding up placards saying harsh revenge. And also the fact that many Iranians are saying that the killing

of Qasem Soleimani, Becky, they say has united this country in a way that hasn't been the case for a very long time.

There was one gentleman who came up to us as we were in those protests. He said, look, of course we've had problems here over the past couple of

months. There were these big demonstrations, of course, that took place here in Iran with that crackdown against those protesters. But now they

say this country is really uniting behind Qasem Soleimani after his death and vowing to take revenge.

So it certainly has been a unifying factor at least for the Iranians. And at the same time, you do have a lot of people on the streets there who are

calling for retaliation against the United States, against the United States interests. And of course that's something, Becky, that we've been

talking about. We've been hearing from Iranian officials as well. And that, as she was saying here, could bring darker days to this region.

Of course right now it's a very tense time for this region where many people are afraid that things could descend into a very, very bad place

very quickly. The Iranian government, the Iran leadership has said they don't want this to turn into a complete war. But at the same time you do

hear from both sides. You hear from President Trump and the U.S. administration and from the Iranian side that there is going to be massive

retaliation if certain things take place.

President Trump recently said that in a tweet. The Iranians are saying they are going to strike back as well. And the big question right now is

where does this end and when does this end. And it really does seem as though this is leading to a very, very tense situation. I'm sure it's

making a lot of people not just in Iran quite uneasy but certainly a lot of other countries in the Middle East as well -- Becky.

ANDERSON: We're watching live pictures coming to you from Oom in Iran as we speak to Fred Pleitgen. I want to get to Clarisse before I get to Sam

Kiley who's with me here in the studio in Abu Dhabi in the UAE, importantly.

Clarissa, a Saudi government source telling CNN that Saudi Arabia's defense minister, Khalid bin Salman, brother of the Crown Prince, of course, will,

quote, call for restraint in this crisis when he meets with U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Washington next hour.

Qasem Soleimani will not be a man who is missed in either the UAE or, indeed, in Saudi. How do you read how others in this region are now

running their narrative, as it were, particularly that of Saudi?

WARD: Well, Becky, I think this is so fascinating. Saudi Arabia, the UAE, these are the country's that you would expect to be expressing jubilation

about the targeted killing of someone like Qasem Soleimani. But the reality is that I think practical minds do kick in, and there is a very

real concern this is essentially pouring fuel on the fire, igniting a tinderbox. And of course, it will be Saudi Arabia that potentially

experiences the fallout from something like this.

Because where it might be difficult for Iran to hit the U.S. directly or to hit U.S. military personnel -- as they said in that interview with Fred

Pleitgen they intend to do directly -- it is not hard for them, as we have seen previously, to hit out at the U.S. allies. Whether that might be

Israel, whether that might be Saudi Arabia. Of course Saudi Arabia has been the victim of attacks on its oil infrastructure, also attacks on its

shipping enterprise. So clearly this is a real concern for all parties in the region regardless of what side they stand on.

While some might be happy about the death of Qasem Soleimani and some might be pleased to see Iran face a blow to its sort of public stature,

underscoring that is the very real concern that this situation could quickly devolve out of control with no real sense of impetus driving it.

Because it seems clear from listening to both sides on the U.S. and Iranian side that no one actually wants war, Becky. And so, it's up to leaders at

the moment to try to reign in, for cooler heads to prevail. And at the moment, it's not clear who exactly is going to take the lead on that.

[10:15:00]

And that's perhaps why you're seeing Saudi Arabia's defense minister saying he himself will go and ask Pompeo to try to help just generate a slight

cooling down, a de-escalation, if you will, into this already rather frenetic and fraught situation -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Sam Kiley is with me here in the UAE. De-escalate, de-escalate. This is a line we've been hearing from these Gulf parties now for what I

would say some six months. This is after -- just after the attacks on the shipping in the Gulf of Hormuz. There was before that a bit of a drum beat

for war, wasn't there, to a certain extent from this region with regard to Iran. But things have changed. And at this point, as Clarissa points out,

the question now is, who takes the lead on what happens next.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well I think throughout this process -- and as you said, over the last six months -- I think

creeping up the spines of the leadership in the Gulf particularly here in the Emirates and Saudi Arabia has been the idea that maybe Americans are

serious about regime change in Iran.

It's not a publicly stated policy. Indeed, the Trump administration insist it's for Iranians to decide their future. But all of the efforts being

made there are directed at undermining that regime. And in this region, we know what regime change leads to, whatever the intent may have been behind

it. So there is a real concern that it could have been over the tank bombings which are blamed on Iran, the downing of drone, the attack on

Saudi Arabia's Aramco facilities, the killing of Soleimani. All of these ratcheting up of processes could get to the stage -- mixing the metaphor --

in which they snowball into an outright war.

I don't think there's any possibility of that in the short or medium term. Because in fact, if you look at the behavior of both sides -- and we are

talking about sides here -- even with the killing of Soleimani, it's been calibrated and carefully so. And the Iranian response coming from both

Fred Pleitgen's interview and repeated yesterday by Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, has been very, very specific. Hezbollah laid out the

target list. It will be American military sites and personnel only. And saying journalists, thank goodness, are not on the target along businessmen

and others.

That's a very important decision. An effort being made by the Iranian side to contain this almost to a kind of blood sport so that it doesn't spill

out into outright war. And of course, the United States rather predictably are saying, well if you retaliate, you're going to get a punch in the face.

And that is also what one would expect particularly from the Trump administration.

So the mission of the Saudi deputy defense minister, is the former ambassador to Washington, he's got a lot of friends, a lot of influence

there is to try to project into the Trump administration -- as Clarissa was saying -- a sense that this can below down. It can below down. There is

no inexorable trajectory toward conflict.

ANDERSON: John Defterios also with us here in the UAE. It is not clear, John, what happens next. What is clear is that this action by the U.S. in

killing Qasem Soleimani has affected not only the local stock markets in this region and, indeed, the markets globally with concern about whether we

are sort of, you know, on our way to war, but particularly important the effects on the oil price.

JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Yes, indeed, Becky, as you well know, investors don't like complexity or uncertainty. And

that's all that the Middle East is offering right now. To put it into context, I spoke to a senior source at a state oil company here in the

region who said that this is an explosive situation, and we're in unchartered territory.

Now in that context, I think that the market reaction has been rather muted, if you will. We've seen a 5 percent gain in oil prices between

Friday and Monday. We knocked above $70 a barrel, which is a six-month high. But it's not the 14 percent gain when we saw that shock attack, the

audacious attack against Aramco facilities in September.

But it's also a very different market. That was a lower market in September. Remember that OPEC cut production now to 1.7 million barrels a

day. And we've seen a staircase higher. We had the Aramco IPO and all of a sudden you have this very big shock attack by the U.S. administration and

the words by Donald Trump here, throwing the market off but nobody knows what's around the corner. And this is where the complexity comes into play

here.

What is Iranian retaliation? Do they go against U.S. embassies? Try to strike a U.S. jetliner in the region? Do they make proxy attacks on U.S.

allies like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and here in the UAE? You talked about with Sam there, the tanker attacks south of the Strait of Hormuz, pipeline

that's getting hit in Saudi Arabia, pumping stations as well. And you have to think, Becky, that the Strait of Hormuz comes back into play.

Every time Iran has a problem, they strike at tankers, they put in naval mines.

[10:20:02]

I would think that's going to happen yet against. And the U.S. is a producer of 13 million barrels a day, but they said they have -- they are

flush with oil, it could not cover loss production of two-thirds of the proven reserves in oil, if -- and that's a big if -- if this spirals out of

control.

ANDERSON: Yes. Meantime short-term at least these numbers on the oil price certainly suit these local oil producers. John, thank you. Clarissa Ward

is in London and Fred Pleitgen in Tehran for you.

Sam staying with me, because I'd like to discuss the situation in Kenya with you, a terror attack on an important military base there has killed

three U.S. citizens. Al-Qaeda affiliate, al-Shabaab, based in neighboring Somalia, of course, claiming responsibility for the attack on Sunday. The

general who heads U.S. Africa command says it will harden U.S. resolve to pursue al-Shabab or any other terror groups responsible -- Sam.

KILEY: Well this has been a remarkable event, really, being very downplayed throughout the process by Department of Defense fairly embarrassed. Now,

Camp Simba, which I've seen. I've gone past on a boat, is 10 kilometers north of Lamu, the Manda island airport that supplies the Lamu heritage

site.

During this attack, a number of aircraft, it's not exactly clear how many, but the reports of six or seven, including U.S. owned or operated assets

and helicopters were destroyed. Now the Kenyan defense forces say they killed five members of al-Shabab and, indeed, they posted pictures of their

bodies. But there is no indication of any Kenyan casualties, three Americans killed, one serviceman and two contractors.

The importance of this base is that there's a very, very long wooded, forested border between Somalia and Kenya, through which al-Shabab have

been infiltrating for many years. I know special operators who've been based out of that location fighting and tracking al-Shabab and the aircraft

that has frequently transits through there or flown out of there are these very highly sophisticated civilian liveried special operations spy planes.

Now we don't know if any of those aircraft have actually been destroyed in this but some that look similar certainly have been. We're seeking

clarification from DOD and it's like pulling whelks.

ANDERSON: Sam Kiley in the house for you. Sam, appreciate it.

Australia's military is on the move helping to evacuate people from bushfires there. But imagine fire flying through skies that looked like

this. We'll have more on these hellish scenes just ahead.

Plus, a scary moments for passengers on an Air Canada express flight caught on video. We will explain what is going on there after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: The death toll is now at 66 in Indonesia where flash floods and landslides have devastated the Jakarta region.

[10:25:02]

This disaster was triggered by intense rainfall over the last week. Officials say more than 35,000 people have been displaced by the floods.

People now seeking shelter in government buildings and schools and in malls which are now being used as evacuation centers. Jakarta is one of the

fastest sinking cities in the world and is prone to flooding.

Well from flooding to fires, we are seeing a world very much changing. For all the talk of a climate emergency, Australians are living it right now as

we begin a new decade. For them it must look like a window into a hellish future. Infernos sweeping the land turning the skies blood red,

incinerating wildlife, sending of clouds of ash that later rain down on beaches. These are apocalyptic scenes unfolding in Australia right now.

At least 136 fires are burning in the state of New South Wales alone. Nearly 70 of them, seven zero, are uncontained. The wildfires have so far

killed 24 people across the country. An estimated half a billion animals dead. A third of the koala population of New South Wales alone.

With two months of summer left these fires have already scorched nearly 6 million hectares. Let's just put that into perspective for you. Take a

look at this map. That is the same area as Armenia, Lebanon and Kuwait combined.

Well CNN's Anna Coren was on board the HMAS Adelaide as it deployed to south coast of New South Wales. Defense force members are there to help

evacuees stuck on beaches and in coastal communities. Here is a report that Anna filed just a short time ago for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're aboard the HMAS Adelaide, Australia's largest naval vessel which as sailed into Eden Harbor here on the south

coast of New South Wales. It came in yesterday under eerie skies filled with smoke. Today it is raining and very cold, which obviously a reprieve

for the fighters who have been fighting those bushfires raging around here.

As far as this vessel is concerned, they have been brought here to conduct any evacuations and provide any assistance necessary. This Seahawk behind

me, it has been conducting reconnaissance missions throughout the day traveling up and down the coastline looking for any communities that have

been cut off from the bushfires.

Now 3,000 Australian defense force personnel have been deployed to assist with the bushfire crisis. The government has come under extraordinary

criticism and pressure, in particularly Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison for his lack of leadership during this crisis. But Australian

defense force wants people to know that they are here, they are ready to help.

Downstairs there are over 1,000 bumps and stretchers ready for any evacuees. There's a medical center as well as supplies, food, water. As I

say, the military says they are ready to help. These service members, they are Australian, it's been breaking their heart witnessing the scenes. They

say they are proud to be here and serve amongst the men and women fighting these bushfires. Anna Coren, CNN, HMAS Adelaide, Eden, Australia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Look, let's just take a moment to dig down on why this all matters. Natural disasters, of course, are nothing new for Australia.

It's a land of scorching sun, wild storms, flooding rains, and, of course, ferocious bushfires. Take a look at these images from 2009. Cities have

rebuilt and recovered before.

So what makes these fires different? Well Australia has been on the front lines of the climate crisis for a generation. But is this the new normal?

Half the year on fire. We have 10 years to change our course. But right now today along with those walls of flames, this little boy with no father

is what climate crisis looks like.

Up next, tonight, condemnation in Washington as the House Speaker calls on Democrats to limit the President's military power. That after this.

[10:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well it made Americans safer. That is what we have been told, but the spiraling chain reaction from the killing of Qasem Soleimani may

imply otherwise. On Iran's street and in its government, outrage. And Tehran is now saying it will no longer limit itself to the restrictions of

the Iran deal. In short, meaning Iran no longer recognizes any limits on operational aspects of its nuclear program.

The world's eyes are on the U.S. and Iran. And within Washington itself, reaction has been swift. Now the U.S. House Speaker is working to restrict

the President's military power.

Sunday night Nancy Pelosi sent a letter saying, and I quote, this action endangered our service members, diplomats and others, by risking a serious

escalation of tensions with Iran, adding that the House of Representatives will introduce and vote on a war powers resolution which would limit

President Trump's military actions against Iran.

Our chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour, joins me now from London. It was Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in the wake of the targeted

killing of Qasem Soleimani on Friday who argued and continues to argue, Christiane, that the world and America is safer as a result of that action.

Is it?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Becky, there are very few people who think that's absolutely the case, particularly now in the

short and medium term. What we have is a situation where the Secretary of State said that on Friday in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.

At the same time the U.S. calling for all personnel to leave Iraq for instance. All Americans to leave Iraq and to cut down travel in the region

to absolute necessity.

So the two things kind of colliding a little bit. But more to the point is, we don't really know the full extent of what's going to happen until

and unless Iran actually does retaliate. Now in that interview with Fred Pleitgen, the Iranian military spokesman, the general who was very clear to

say that that would be against U.S. military sites, military interest.

We've heard that it's not a question of taking hostages or the kidnap situation or other kind of issues that we've had over the last 40 years

really since the Islamic revolution. But the big, big backlash has already happened in Iraq whereby the Parliament has taken this extraordinary vote

to expel U.S. forces. That would be a terrible blow to an ally but also it would, essentially, vindicate Soleimani and essentially be Soleimani's

revenge from the grave.

[10:35:03]

Because that was the Iranian and Soleimani's main aim was to move U.S. forces out of the region and away from Iran's borders, its airspace, its

water space.

ANDERSON: Christiane, I spoke to former CIA director, General David Petraeus in October and I asked him what the red lines for military action,

U.S. military action with regard to Iran would or should be. Here is what he had to say. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID PETRAEUS, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: It does appear that the red line that is emerging is that having to do with the either killing or serious injury

to a U.S. soldier.

ANDERSON: The withdrawal of Iranians from the MPT. That would be a red line, wouldn't it?

PETRAEUS: Well if Iran were to withdraw from nonproliferation treaty, I think that could set off some very serious repercussions. And I think they

are more cautious than to do something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And for all intents and purposes those red lines have been crossed, Christiane. Petraeus recently called the killing of Qasem

Soleimani more significant than the killing of Osama bin Laden or death of ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. He argues that the U.S. action against

Soleimani reestablishes the element of deterrence. Your thoughts?

AMANPOUR: Well certainly I'm sure that is what the U.S. hopes. General Petraeus more than perhaps anybody except the commanders and those who were

fighting the insurgency in Iraq knows the power and the reach of Qasem Soleimani. He was the one who, as we'll know, mobilize so many of the

Shiite militias across Iraq, as well as all of those in the region, from Hezbollah in Lebanon, to now the militias inside Syria. We have militias

in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, I mean, all over the region including, of course, in Yemen. Proxies, networks affiliated with Iran.

And the key purpose was to destabilize the United States and keep the United States away from threatening Iran's borders. Paradoxically the U.S.

war in Iraq brought the U.S. right onto Iran's borders. But strengthened Iran's hand in the region but also was always there with this threat of

regime change. So it's been this asymmetrical war for a long, long time.

And then with the imposition of these severe Trump era sanctions, it became, as Iran said, economic warfare against it and it has been

responding in a way militarily. Where you have the assault on the attacks that Iran didn't claim but perhaps proxies on the shipping in the Gulf,

Straits of Hormuz. You had the attack on the Saudi oil refineries and many others including this attack that killed that one American contractor in

Iraq.

And you know, the question has always been -- and Petraeus would say the same thing -- if there is a plan behind it, a diplomatic initiative, some

kind of plan to back up this use of force, that's one set of strategic initiatives. If there isn't, it's very difficult to see where this is

going to lead to. And as we've said, Iran can and does have the capability not to take on the U.S. full frontal face on but to lash out in very severe

ways across a massive territory everywhere where the U.S. is exposed in that region.

ANDERSON: It's been interesting. I've been listening to your commentary over the past 72 hours, which has been as ever full of insight. And you've

been very eager, and rightly so, to point out this was a tactical success, if you like, this targeted killing. Getting rid of a figure the U.S.

administration says they want out of the region. But it was very unclear about what strategy was going forward.

I was looking back at what Mike Pompeo discussed with Jake Tapper on "STATE OF THE UNION" on CNN yesterday and I was struck by this line. The only

thing I heard Mike Pompeo talk about with regard to strategy was a line, and I paraphrase here -- the strategy is to send a message to the regime in

Iran that it needs to act as a normal regime.

We've been covering -- and that was it. We've been covering the mood in Iran obviously closely here. We've seen images of hundreds of thousands

out in the streets to mourn Qasem Soleimani. We mustn't forget these drastically different pictures from November on the right-hand side of your

screen, people in the streets for very different reasons, protesting against the government.

[10:40:00]

Look, Christiane, Trump's advisers have argued for months now that their maximum pressure campaign was working and, on the streets, they say we

sought pressure on the regime. But we're not seeing that anymore. Are we? Not today at least, and likely not tomorrow.

AMANPOUR: No. I mean, you're right. The minute you get attacked from the outside, no matter what country you are, the minute you get attacked from

outside you gather around a nationalist, a patriotic flag. And that is exactly what's happening inside Iran. As you correctly point out, there

were very visible protests inside Iran. Those were protests against an overnight hiking of gasoline prices in response to the incredible economic

pain that the United States has been inflicting with these very severe sanctions. So that was mostly economic protest.

But as you saw in Lebanon and in Iraq, there were political protests against the presence of Iran, against the influence of Iran. Some are

saying that Soleimani, in fact, was you know, very much engaged in Iraq in trying to tamp down those anti-Iran protests in Iraq at the time of the

assassination.

But yes, I mean, look, the United States has been using this maximum pressure for the last whatever 18 months or so. It actually hasn't worked.

If the idea was to bring Iran back to the negotiating table or to cause regime change. And that's the issue with Secretary Pompeo's statements so

far. It's a mix of saying we want to stop imminent threats. And by the way, we'd like to have Iranian people throw out the ayatollahs, and the

Iraqis throughout the Iranians, et cetera. So it's a bit of a mixed message. So where is the strategy and what are the plans?

ANDERSON: Christiane's show forthcoming on CNN. Always a pressure. Thank you. We're taking a short break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: The fires in Australia clearly a huge story. When it comes to helping wildfire efforts there, Australian cricket legend, Shane Warne, is

taking fundraising to a whole new level helping raise hundreds of thousands of dollars by auctioning off his own gear. Alex with us in the house.

Alex Thomas out of WORLD SPORT. He's not the only sports star with something to say on Australia, as far as I understand.

ALEX THOMAS, CNN WORLD SPORT: No, Becky, Novak Djokovic, one of several tennis stars to also donate to victims of the wildfires. He also has a

warning though about air quality ahead of the Australian open later this month. Plus, we've got the pick of the action from a thrilling opening

weekend in the NFL playoffs in WORLD SPORT coming up.

ANDERSON: That's fantastic, looking forward to it. Stay with us, folks.

[10:45:00]

(WORLD SPORT)

[10:57:11]

THOMAS: So many great young golfers coming onto the scene, Becky. But it's the man known as J.T. who's breaking the records.

ANDERSON: Is it me or do they just get younger and younger. Don't answer that. Don't answer that.

Up next -- thank you, Alex. Donald Trump seems to be contradicting his own Secretary of State even on potential war crimes, so I will speak to Mike

Pompeo's spokeswoman. Up next.

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