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China Ramps Up Efforts to Stop Coronavirus Spreading; Wuhan on Lockdown to Stop Spread of Coronavirus; House Impeachment Managers Laying Out Their Case; Schumer and McConnell Spar Over Witnesses; Democrats Us Trump's Own Words Against Him; Interview with Agnes Callamard, U.N. Special Rapporteur, Jeff Bezos Phone Hack by Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia; World Leaders Mark 75 Years Since Liberation of Auschwitz. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 23, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA) HOUSE IMPEACHMENT MANAGER: We can and will prove President Trump guilty of this conduct and of obstructing the investigation
into his misconduct. If you don't know, now you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN HOST: Democrats making their case to yank Donald Trump out of office. Well he has been spending his time making a new record on
Twitter.
Also ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think disease is more serious than SARS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Right now millions of people in China are under lockdown as the country looks to get a deadly virus under control.
And world leaders are gathering to mark 75 years since the liberation of the Auschwitz death camp.
Hello and welcome I'm Lynda Kinkade sitting in for Becky Anderson. Well it is 5:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, a 11:00 at night in Beijing and 10:00 in the
morning in Washington, where day two of the impeachment trial is about to get under way.
We begin on our big story. The Chinese officials that are now racing to slow the spread of a deadly virus amid the largest movement of people on
the planet. And that's got authorities around the world on high alert.
Let's get you the latest. Three cities right now under lockdown including the city where the virus was first detected. I'm talking about Wuhan in
China. You can see it here in the center of the map. It is ground zero for the coronavirus. It is a pneumonia-like respiratory bug that has so far
killed 17 people with confirmed cases found as far as Washington state here in the U.S.
Well authorities in the city have all but closed it off. This are pictures of a railway station just before it got shut down to departing passengers.
It's the same for the airport and now some of the main highways. Public transport within the city has also been suspended until further notice.
The World Health Organization has extended its emergency talks into a second day. The W.H.O. is trying to decide if the coronavirus outbreak
constitutes a public health emergency of international concern.
Officials in Wuhan itself are not taking any chances. Take a look at this video. It Radio Free Asia and you can see tents set up outside Wuhan
hospital. The man in the video is warning residents to stay indoors. Well it's now mandatory in the city to wear a face mask in all public places.
Our David Culver who just returned from Wuhan with his team joins us from Beijing. And here with us in the studio is CNN chief medical correspondent
dr. Sanjay Gupta. Good to have you both with us. I want to start first with you, David, because you were in Wuhan. This is a city of 11 million people
now in lockdown. You had to leave. And, of course, it's not the only city. Two other cities have now under lockdown. Essentially not letting people in
or out of the city.
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You've got to grasp the scope of this, Lynda, by putting this in numbers -- 20 million people.
That's what we're talking about. And it's just outside of Wuhan that expands to include the other two cities within Hubei province in central
China. And you're right, these folks are heavily restricted now in how they can get around. And part of the concern for folks there is that if they are
sick and people have been venting this on social media, and they can't use public transport, how are they going to get to the hospital? So that's
something that's been certainly vented, and it's a worthy concern. Because they've not set a timeline for when they'll allow public transportation to
continue.
For those of us who were able to get out, and there were hundreds along with us who got up early into the middle of the night to make that
departure, it was a little bit unnerving. But I want to walk you through that process and see what other folks were dealing with.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER (voice-over): A rushed check out sparked by a 3:00 a.m. phone call. We headed to the train station as soon as we got word. The city of Wuhan,
China, essentially going on lockdown. Officials set a deadline for 10:00 Thursday morning. All public transportation, including airports, highways
and train stations to halt service out of the city. A drastic effort to contain the spreading and deadly coronavirus.
As we arrived, crowds already lined up for tickets stretching out the door.
(on camera): This gives you an idea of how seriously people are taking this idea to leave Wuhan and get out before public transportation is
strictly limited. We've noticed a good number of people rushing to this train station.
[10:05:00]
Interesting to note this railway station is located just a few blocks away from the seafood market. The epicenter, according to health officials, of
this virus.
(voice-over): That market's been shut down for weeks guarded by security and police. Without special permission, no one in. So as to prevent any
potential exposure from getting out.
(on camera): Have you thought about leaving?
JAN RENDERS, STUDENT: I did. I did.
CULVER (voice-over): Before leaving Wuhan, we met a Jan Renders, a Ph.D. student from Belgium. He went to the hospital this week not feeling well.
He says they told him he had a fever and sent him to be tested for the coronavirus.
RENDERS: They put you in this place with other people, and you start thinking, well, can maybe, you know, this guy next to me is coughing. What
happens, you know.
CULVER: He tested negative but has been wearing a mask since which is now mandatory in Wuhan's public spaces like the train station. Passing through
rail security, thermal detectors monitor for possible fevers. Inside, some passengers feeling panicked.
SHANG XIN, SERVICE INDUSTRY WORKER (through translator): In such a short time, the number of cases has doubled several times.
CULVER: Others feeling it's been a bit overhyped.
MENG XUAN, SHOP OWNER (through translator): For me in Wuhan, I haven't felt that kind of tension or panic at all. I think people are OK. People
are getting on with eating, drinking and living.
CULVER: But she's leaving, nonetheless. And during the spring festival in which families are supposed to be together, some are making the difficult
choice to be apart. Sending their young children outside the city limits while they stay to face the unknowns back home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER: And that's the reality putting this in context, Lynda, is that this is the lunar new year holiday season. And it is when hundreds of
millions are normally traveling. Of course now, you have folks who are feeling these restrictions, and the restrictions go beyond just travel.
Even within the cities, in some of these locked down cities in areas, they can't go to public events. They can't go to entertainment venues. They
can't go to any of the gatherings that would be normally taking place for this holiday. It's a bit frustrating and unnerving for these folks.
KINKADE: Yes, definitely. Certainly tough for families who wait all year to catch up for this particular event. David Culver for us now in Beijing.
Good to have you there. Thank you so much.
Well, I want to ask Dr. Gupta about this further because we know from the World Health Organization that it is a statistical certainty that there
would be another pandemic flu-like the Spanish virus of 1918. But we're not saying this is it. Coronavirus isn't necessary -- we don't want to be
alarmist at all.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
KINKADE: But we want people to be aware, right.
GUPTA: I mean, that is always in the back of mind for public health officials. When you have a new virus, that basically means it's a virus
that the world hasn't seen before and people haven't been exposed to it before so they have no immunity. That's the real concern. If you suddenly
start to have a virus that's spreading that we have no immunity to, that's the big concern.
We don't know exactly, as you point out, how much this will spread or how severe this will be. But all these steps that David was outlining that are
taking place right now are part of many steps to try and lessen the spread. I don't think anyone thinks we can stop it given that the thing is
spreading already, this virus. Not only among animals to humans but humans to humans. And then we just learned over the last couple of hours, Lynda,
second or third generation humans. Meaning I could spread it to you and then you could go spread it to other people. That's the sort of -- how
transmissible this virus is. And that's what we're trying to address here.
KINKADE: And Dr. Sanjay, there have been a lot of comparisons made between this and the SARS virus. What do they have in common?
GUPTA: They are the same family of viruses. They're called the coronavirus. And it's interesting because you know only seven times has it
been documented that a coronavirus has actually moved from animals to humans -- only seven times. And most of the times it has been
inconsequential. Didn't even make a dent in terms of symptoms. Twice it's been a problem. That was SARS and that was MERS, the Middle East
Respiratory Syndrome. Those were both coronaviruses as well. So that's really what they have in common.
They have similar behaviors. They may transmit the same way. The big question mark right now, if someone is not sick if they are in the
incubation period, they're infected but haven't developed symptoms yet, are they contagious at that point? And we still don't fully know the answer to
that. It doesn't look like they are, but you know, literally every minute, every hour we're getting new information about this that could change how
we look at it.
KINKADE: And we were speaking yesterday about how the regular flu right now is more deadly in the time it's taken since this virus started to
spread. The regular flu far more deadly. But you were pointing out at least there's a vaccine that is somewhat effective with the regular flu. With
this, not yet.
GUPTA: That's right, we don't have a vaccine. There is a vaccine they're working on. In fact, we spent some time at the NIH talking to the doctor,
Dr. Fauci who runs this particular division, about that. And let's listen to what he had to say specifically about that.
[10:10:02]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, U.S. NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: What we're doing here is we're developing a vaccine that we're going to at least put through
what we call phase one. Namely, we're going to test it to see if it's safe and if it induces the kind of response that you hope would be protective.
We may not take it beyond phase one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: And what he's basically saying by that, Lynda, is phase one is to determine if something is safe. Normally you go through phase two and phase
three. Sometimes you don't have that luxury. So if this thing is safe and seems to show any kind of effectiveness, they may release a vaccine like
that early to try and mitigate the spread of this.
Let me just show you one more thing if I can that gives you an idea of how public health officials really look at this. This box there's two important
points. One is how transmissible this is. And how severe the illness would be. I don't know if we have this graphic. But basically the "A" box there
would be if something doesn't transmit well and is low in terms of severity. Best case scenario. As you might guess, worst case scenario is
box D. When suddenly something starts to spread very easily and is also very severe. Box D is what everyone is trying to prevent.
KINKADE: Absolutely. Well, thanks so much, as always, for giving us that perspective on this. It's certainly a story we are going to continue to
follow.
GUPTA: I'll be here again.
KINKADE: Excellent.
GUPTA: Thank you.
KINKADE: Thanks dr. Sanjay Gupta. Always good to have your perspective.
Well, the bottom line is that authorities are now walking a fine line between urging the utmost caution and doing all they can to prevent the
spread of this virus without sparking panic. And in the days to come, officials around the world would be put in that very test. We'll stay on
that story for you.
So A marathon Senate battle under way in Washington as lawmakers enter day three of the impeachment trial of President Donald Trump. The President is
heading to friendlier pastures in just a few hours. House impeachment managers in Washington will continue making their abuse of power case
against Donald Trump.
On Wednesday, they spent eight hours delivering their opening arguments and showed more than 50 video clips of the President trying to use his own
words against him. As the drama unfolded on Capitol Hill, Mr. Trump broke his own Twitter record lashing out at House managers.
The President won't be hanging around Washington today, though. He'll soon depart for his golf course in Doral, Florida, to deliver remarks before
fellow Republicans.
Our senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns is live outside the White House. But first to Lauren Fox with the latest on Capitol Hill. So, Lauren,
of course, we have seen impeachment managers trying to use Trump's own words against him. We are now going into day three. And from what we've
seen from some of those Republican lawmakers who were spotted doing puzzles, I just wonder how much impact it's all having.
LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well you know, both sides of the aisle, Senators have started to get restless as the day wore on
yesterday. But that didn't stop Democratic impeachment managers from making an impassioned case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIFF: We can and will prove President Trump guilty of this conduct and of obstructing the investigation into his misconduct.
FOX (voice-over): House impeachment managers telling Senator jurors why they believe President Trump should be convicted and removed from office.
By using his own words against him.
SCHIFF: There's no question that President Trump intended and pressing the Ukraine leader to look into his political rival.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They should investigate the Bidens.
SCHIFF: And just as he solicited help from Ukraine in 2019 and in 2016, then candidate Trump also solicited the help from Russia in his election
effort.
TRUMP: Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.
SCHIFF: President Trump actually escalated his rhetoric urging not only Ukraine to investigate the Bidens but China, too.
TRUMP: China should start an investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened to China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.
FOX: For more than eight hours, the impeachment managers detailing a timeline of the Ukraine scandal. Arguing their evidence, including
documents, transcripts and clips from House investigation testimonies show a clear pattern of the President abusing his power and obstructing
Congress.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): The July 25th call warrants our close scrutiny. It presents significant and shocking evidence of President
Trump's corrupt intent. The call lays bare the President's willingness to do whatever it takes to get what he wants.
[10:15:00]
FOX: The Democrats still say they need more evidence and witnesses to fully present the scope of Trump's alleged scheme.
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): You should demand to see the full record. The American people deserve to see the full truth when it comes to presidential
actions.
FOX: Minority leader Chuck Schumer optimistic the call is gaining traction.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): If the Republicans begin to break, leader McConnell may come to me and say let's negotiate. He doesn't do that unless
he's not -- unless he doesn't think he has the votes. And we'll try to work something out.
FOX: But for President Trump's defense team, and his allies, one key witness is at the top of the list.
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: You could never have witnesses here without Hunter Biden being a central witness.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I've got to say the need for the Senate to hear the testimony of Hunter Biden and the need for the Senate to grant the White
House lawyers the ability to take that testimony has become all the more relevant.
FOX: Schumer quickly shutting the door on allowing a witness swap for someone like John Bolton.
SCHUMER: First of all, the Republicans have the try to bring in any witness they want. They haven't wanted to. And that trade is not on the
table.
FOX: Former Vice President Joe Biden also shutting that idea down.
JOE BIDEN, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a constitutional issue. And we're not going to turn it into a farce, into
some kind of political theater. They are trying to turn it into political theater, but I want no part of being any part of that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOX: And of course, today is going to be another long day of testimony from the House managers hoping to make the case and focus on those abuse of
power charges against the President.
KINKADE: All right, Lauren. I want to go to Joe Johns. Because we have been seeing Donald Trump take to Twitter often, but in the last 24 hours,
he set a new record, even for himself. I have to wonder what else he could achieve when he's on Twitter so frequently.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right. According to the website Factbase, he tweeted something like 142 times during that 24-
hour period yesterday which would be a record for the President while in office. It's not his all-time record that came back in 2015. So he's also
back at it again today during the space of about one hour, he tweeted about ten times and among the targets, Adam Schiff who happens to be the top
impeachment manager as well as the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. So he did that as well yesterday, tweeting about Adam Schiff. So
you can see a continuing theme here clearly the President concerned about the impeachment hearings up on Capitol Hill.
KINKADE: Yes, certainly seems that way. Joe Johns for us outside the White House, our thanks also to Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill. Thanks very much.
Well, milk or water? That is the choice lawmakers have while considering if the President is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. Now you think
coffee would be crucial especially when they're stuck working into the wee hours of the morning. A white Russian might even be fitting. But hold the
alcohol and caffeine. This is the choice. The lactose-loving lawmakers reportedly have to provide their own milk. So what do Senators do if
they're lactose intolerant? Well water is all you have to drink. Sparkling, if you're lucky.
If you really want something to help keep you going, head over to CNN.com/politics. Now there are some fascinating details on how Democrats
are using video of Donald Trump as direct evidence of what they say is outlandish impeachable behavior.
Still to come here on "CONNECT THE WORLD," she has been leading the fight for accountability, and now Agnes Callamard is looking at the alleged
hacking of Jeff Bezos' phone. And why she says the timing of it is a key part of the puzzle in the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and the
connection that Saudi Crown Prince has to all of it. I'll be speaking to the U.N. special rapporteur next.
And later, find out why Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will not likely bring snacks to his next meeting.
[10:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Making a powerful new friend friends, the Saudi Crown Prince shaking hands with some of the world's richest businessmen on a past visit
to the United States. Well, now a U.N. report alleging that the Crown Prince in early 2018 was trying to hack perhaps the most powerful of them
all. The world's richest man, Amazon's CEO and founder and "Washington Post" owner Jeff Bezos.
Now according to two U.N. experts, they've received information suggesting a WhatsApp account linked to MBS allegedly deployed spyware onto Bezos'
phone months before the killing of "Washington Post" journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Well the experts say the information points towards an effort to
influence, if not silence, "The Washington Post" reporting on Saudi Arabia.
Well French human rights expert Agnes Callamard is one of two United Nations rapporteurs leading the charges on these findings. She also headed
the investigation and the report into the execution of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. She joins me now live via Skype. Good to have you with us. Now a
source close to your investigation has told CNN that the hack was deeply sophisticated and hard to trace. I mean, it couldn't be too sophisticated
given we're now talking about it. But the U.N. did not have direct access to Jeff Bezos' phone. So just explain for us what evidence you do have
access to.
AGNES CALLAMARD, U.N. SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ON EXTRA-JUDICIAL EXECUTIONS (via Skype) years: OK. So we had access to the report done by the consulting
firm FTI which was vetted by the FBI. We need to insist on the fact that the investigation of Jeff Bezos' phone is part of an ongoing FBI
investigation into the blackmail of Jeff Bezos.
So FTI took responsibility for investigating the phone and did so under the most stringent conditions regarding chain of evidence. They subsequently
gave us a copy of the report so that we could assess it, and we contacted additional experts from around the world, cybersecurity experts. There was
a back and forth of exchanges between FTI and our expert and at the end of this process, we felt reassured and convinced that the probability that the
phone of Jeff Bezos was hacked to a WhatsApp account linked to the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia was indeed very high.
And let me also add the fact that the process of investigating the phone is indeed very difficult because those viruses have the capacity to self-
destroy. So it is not a straightforward investigation at all. It's extremely complex and very difficult to trace. And it did, of course, take
a year to find the source of the hacking, I should point out. But we have heard from the Saudi -- from the Saudi foreign minister about this hacking
claim who went on to call it absurd. Just take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE FAISAL BIN FARHAN, SAUDI FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, I think absurd is the right word. The idea that the Crown Prince would hack Jeff Bezos' phone
is absolutely silly. And my understanding of the U.N. report, it's not actually a report. It's a statement based on a report by a private company
that has not been vetted by an independent agency. And that has in its own conclusions, no hard evidence to substantiate the claims it's making.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: So, Agnes, I want to get your response to what we just heard.
CALLAMARD: So first of all, the statement is wrong. The FTI was vetted by the FBI and the investigation of the phone is part of an ongoing FBI
investigation, first of all. Second of all, the process followed by the FTI, as I explained, met the most stringent conditions.
[10:25:00]
Thirdly, the nature of the malware, the nature of the virus is an extremely complex and effective virus that is able to self-destroy, that is able to
mutate and cannot be traced. It is just very difficult to trace it.
So there is no smoking gun. No one is claiming we have a smoking gun. What we are pointing to is a medium to high probability that the source of the
hacking was, indeed, the WhatsApp account of Mr. MBS. They explored other possibilities, other hypotheses and none of them worked. There is never a
smoking gun when it comes to this kind of forensic analysis on the basis of our current level of technical capacities. Which is why we wanted to go
public because it is important for us, as special rapporteur to send a wake-up call, to send a warning, first to people who may have had dealings
in Saudi Arabia and who may not be aware that their phone may have been compromised with, and more generally --
KINKADE: I wanted to ask you about that, actually, about other phones that may have been compromised. Because the White House has stayed largely
silent on this major development, which is not completely surprising given that President Trump has always hesitant to lay blame on Saudi Arabia who
he sees as a key ally. But we've also got his son-in-law Jared Kushner who seems to be very close with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. They've spent
a lot of time together, and his own attorney says he has a direct line via WhatsApp with the Crown Prince. What are your concerns?
CALLAMARD: Well, I mean, my concern for his mobile technology is the same as with anyone as has that kind of relationship with the Crown Prince or
anyone else within the court. They must be aware that it is possible their phone has been compromised. And I will hope that Donald Trump's son-in-law
and anyone else is at the moment is changing their phone, checking their phone and having -- contacting the best cybersecurity experts so that we
can get to the bottom of that hacking strategy and policy.
And I'm talking about it as a broad policy because at the time of Mr. Bezos' phone hacking, there were other phones being hacked and we do know
about them. There too the forensic analysis done that pointed to possible malware. These included the phone of Saudi dissident.
What's important with Jeff Bezos' case is that we now have the proof that the Saudis do not only target the phones of dissidents living abroad. They
also include the phones and the mobile technology in general of people of strategic interest to Saudi Arabia. And that's my warning.
KINKADE: Just very quickly, you say medium to high probability that it was the Saudi Crown Prince's WhatsApp phone that sent this virus. In terms of a
percentage, is that 70 -- over 70 percent? What's that likelihood?
CALLAMARD: No, I honestly cannot give you a percentage. I mean, it's medium to high. It's definitely over 50. It's closer to 80, but further
than that, these are the protocol followed by cybersecurity expert.
KINKADE: All right. Agnes Callamard, always good to get your perspective, especially on this very important story. Good to have you with us. Thanks
so much.
CALLAMARD: Thank you very much.
KINKADE: Well, we are going to take a quick break. Looking ahead, dozens of world leaders are marking the anniversary of the liberation of
Auschwitz, while confronting the rise of anti-Semitism around the globe. We'll have the latest from Jerusalem when we come back.
[10:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Well beautiful yet haunting music filled the halls of Jerusalem's Yad Vashem earlier today. Israel's official memorial to the millions of
victims of the holocaust. Well right now, world leaders are in Jerusalem to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. The
largest, deadliest of the Nazi concentration camps during World War II.
Well as dozens of dignitaries honor the lives lost to the horrors of the past, they are also fighting to make sure history is not repeated. Front
and center at this year's event is battling the disturbing rise of anti- Semitism around the world. Over 1 million people were murdered at Auschwitz between 1940 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Only about 7,000 prisoners
remained when the day of liberation finally came.
CNN's Oren Liebermann is live from Yad Vashem in Jerusalem and joins us now. Oren, more than 40 heads of state, kings, princes, grand dukes were
all there to remember the liberation of what was the deadliest Nazi camp.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lynda, this is arguably the greatest gathering of heads of state, world leaders, dignitaries, members of Royal
families that this country has ever seen. And it's not just about the timing of this, that its 75th anniversary of the liberation of the
Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland. Where, as you point out, more than -- approximately 1 million Jews were killed during the holocaust. It's also
about the rise of anti-Semitism and anti-Semitic incidents and attacks that we're seeing around the world.
From Germany, which in Dresden declared an emergency because of the resurgence of Nazi ideology, to the United States where we see attacks on
Jewish targets in Pittsburgh, San Diego, Munsey, New York, and other locations. So we've seen these world leaders come here to stand and say in
one voice, never again. And to point out the rise of anti-Semitism must be dealt with by all the countries in the world.
At this point in the ceremony most of the speeches have wrapped up and those world leaders are laying wreaths at Warsaw Ghetto Square -- this is
the square that commemorates the Warsaw ghetto uprising in Poland during the second world war. All the speakers, again, have spoken out against
anti-Semitism. For example, Russian President Vladimir Putin said countries of the world must be vigilant to spot the first seeds of anti-Semitism,
racism and xenophobia so it can be dealt with. Meanwhile, Vice President Mike Pence, the highest-ranking U.S. official here, talked about the
importance of remembering the holocaust and drawing lessons from it. He said memories, a constant obligation of all generations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One cannot walk the grounds of Auschwitz without being overcome with emotion and grief. One
cannot see the piles of shoes, the gas chambers, the crematoriums, the lone boxcar facing the gate to the camp, and those grainy photographs of men,
women, and children being sent to their deaths without asking: "How could they?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:35:00]
LIEBERMANN: Pence wrapped up his speech with a Jewish prayer. Oseh shalom bimromav. Hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu. V'al kol Yisrael V'imru. Amen. That
means, may he who makes peace in the heavens bring peace upon Israel and on all people. it's not only the conclusion of the Jewish prayer of mourning,
it is also a prayer of hope.
It is worth noting that there's certainly been a domestic politics at play here. Pence, as well as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have just left a
short time ago. I believe I saw their convoy and headed to the Western Wall in old city of Jerusalem. The holiest site at which Jews can pray. They
will be there together. That makes Pence the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit the Western Wall with an Israeli leader. And that will be a very
good picture for both of these men -- Lynda.
It certainly will, Oren Liebermann, for us in Jerusalem. Good to have you with us.
KINKADE: Well the Yad Vashem museum, where Oren is reporting from, gives visitors a very personal look into the death and suffering of Jews and what
they experienced during the holocaust. Our Sara Sidner went on a tour with the director of the libraries there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT ROZETT, DIRECTOR, YAD VASHEM LIBRARIES: The Yad Vashem comes from the book of Isaiah, and it's really an idiom. And the idiom means permanent
memorial. This museum cuts into the mountain. And if you look at it, it looks like a scar in the mountain of remembrance. And I think that's what
the holocaust really is in our world is this thing. Many years afterwards, but we remain with a sort of scar.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a bit shocking as you walk in and see these massive swastikas.
ROZETT: Yes, I think it is.
SIDNER: And Nazi flags.
ROZETT: But again, this is showing you something about what this period is. I mean, you have to -- you can't just enter it like you enter a
swimming pool slowly. You kind of dive into the period.
SIDNER: Where are these bricks from?
ROZETT Well, this is a recreation of a street called Leszno Street which was the main artery in the ghetto, Warsaw ghetto, the biggest of the
ghettos. And these are actual bricks that were used in the streets of Warsaw along with the tram line that was there.
SIDNER: What do you want people to feel when they start walking into the ghettos?
ROZETT: We want them to have a small feeling maybe of how crowded this is and when they see the photos around, understand something about the
suffering. Because if you see the photos around you, you see tremendous suffering, especially of children.
And we're talking about people, knowing their names is important. When you see their faces, you understand even more that we're talking about not 6
million somethings. We're talking about 6 million human beings. Each with a family, with a background, with something about them that's very human. The
suitcases are left with names and addresses and information. Again, it's a personal thing. Who doesn't understand traveling with a suitcase?
SIDNER: But you also have little baby slippers.
ROZETT: We do. Yes. So they're heart rendering these things. When you look at the items and you tie them to the story, you don't need to show
photographs of atrocities to understand an atrocity.
Things were taken from them again, and shoes. And shoes, OK, shoes look innocuous. What are shoes? But understand whose shoes these were and what
happened to the owners of these shoes, and you begin to get something about a feeling of amount of quantity, of everything that's going on here.
SIDNER: Why do you think anti-Semitism is again growing in places like Europe and the U.S.?
ROZETT: It could be because we're in a period of tremendous change in our world. And often when there's this tremendous change and insecurity, anti-
Semitism has come out even stronger.
SIDNER: You can touch things here.
ROZETT: Yes.
SIDNER: You can experience things in a different way. What is this?
ROZETT: Well look in the photograph. This is a camp call Flossenburg where people were working in hard labor digging out stones. And they were filling
carts, right. And this is one of the carts.
SIDNER: There are a thousand points of proof, a thousand things that you can experience here to show you a little bit. Just a tad of what life was
like.
ROZETT: Ultimately, we want people to understand that the Holocaust was caused by people. It wasn't a cosmic event and it wasn't monsters. It was
human beings who were motivated by ideas more than anything else, and they brought about this Holocaust. Which means we need to understand what those
ideas were. What was motivating them. What brought them into this because ultimately, we want to learn from the Holocaust, from other genocides. How
do we go about preventing anything like this from happening anywhere else?
[10:40:00]
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: The U.S. has a presidential impeachment. The U.K. has fleeing Royals. And Canada has a doughnut scandal. It all started with a seemingly
harmless tweet. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau there delivering doughnuts to his cabinet meetings in Winnipeg. Now here's where it went wrong. He
thanked Oh Doughnuts. Now that is an upscale doughnut shot. And according to their website the seven boxes the Prime Minister picked up could cost up
to $200. Almost immediately Mr. Trudeau came under fire for buying the costly sweets. One Twitter user said, I guess Tim's isn't good enough at
$10 a dozen. Referring to ubiquitous Tim Horton's doughnut shop.
Well Oh Doughnuts responded by tweeting its business practices and explaining its prices. They say they're locally owned. They use local
ingredients and they pay a living wage. Meanwhile, no word yet on which treats h Mr. Trudeau will bring to the future meetings and whether or not
he'll tweet about them again.
Speaking of all that, our special coverage of the impeachment trial of America's President starts again in about 15 minutes' time. But before
that, we are going to go to "WORLD SPORT." I'm Lynda Kinkade. Thanks so much for joining me today. I will see you again very soon.
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