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Former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak Dies Aged 91; Iran Deputy Health Minister Tests Positive for Coronavirus; Turkey, Afghanistan Shut Borders with Iran Amidst Coronavirus Outbreak; Oil Prices Steady as Investors Debate Next OPEC Move; Number of Reported Cases of Coronavirus in Italy Reaches 283; W.H.O. Says Potential for Pandemic, But We're Not There Yet; . Aired 10-11a ET
Aired February 25, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: This hour, the former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak dies at the age of 91.
And Iran becomes a regional incubation chamber for the novel coronavirus as the country's deputy health minister tests positive.
It is 5:00 p.m. in Cairo. It is 6:30 p.m. in Tehran, and it is 7:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi in the UAE. I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to
CONNECT THE WORLD live from right here in the Middle East.
It's either me or chaos. Those are the defiant words of a man who was then a modern-day pharaoh of sorts to Egyptians. The alpha and the omega of
political and social life. And for a long time, many bought that dictatorial logic. Mubarak was untouchable until his own people rampaged
into a revolution through the 2011 Arab Spring and tore him out of office. Here's a look at the life of the former Egyptian President who died just
hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Muhammad Hosni Mubarak, a symbol of stability and moderation to his admirers. A symbol of dictatorship to his
critics. Trained as a fighter pilot in the Soviet Union, Mubarak gradually climbed through the ranks taking command of Egypt's air force shortly
before the 1973 Yom Kippur war when Egypt and Syria launched a surprise attack on Israel.
Two years later President Anwar Sadat appointed Mubarak vice president. Six years after that in 1981, he became President following the assassination
of Sadat at the hands of Islamic militants. Mubarak was with Sadat on that dramatic day and only narrowly escaped the assassin's bullets himself. As
President Mubarak fought a long and bloody war against Islamic militants bent on toppling his regime.
The struggle climaxed in 1997 when militants massacred more than 60 people, mostly European and Japanese tourists. In the wake of the attack, Egypt's
security forces crushed the militants while human rights groups accused the Mubarak regime of widespread torture and abuse.
President Mubarak was a regular guest at the White House and Egyptian troops made up the largest Arab contingent in the U.S. led multinational
force that drove the Iraqi army out of Kuwait in 1991.
But friendship had its limits. 12 years later, Mubarak declined to join President George W. Bush's U.S.-led coalition against Saddam Hussein, and
he reacted coolie to Bush's calls for democratic reform in the Arab world.
But under intense pressure from Washington, Mubarak began to ease his grip on power. In September 2005, Egypt had its first ever multicandidate
Presidential election. While his opponents, the Muslim Brotherhood made some gains, Mubarak still held firmly onto power. That was until growing
discontent over corruption, police brutality and economic inequality boiled over on January 25th, 2011. When a group of young activists using social
media organized an uprising that took the regime by surprise.
What followed was 18 days of mounting nationwide protests calling for his resignation. Human rights organizations estimated more than 800 protesters
were killed in clashes with police and supporters of Mubarak. But the tide had turned. The movement against Mubarak only grew. A military man to the
end, Mubarak vowed he would not shirk his duty as president of Egypt.
But on February 11th, he finally stepped down and millions of Egyptians took to the streets in wild celebration. A year and a half later, a Cairo
court handed Mubarak a light prison sentence for his role in the death of protesters during the uprising. Barely seven months later an appeals court
reversed that decision. And a frail Mubarak was set free with little fanfare or opposition, six years after the uprising that toppled him. A
dramatic final chapter for Egypt's modern pharaoh who once loomed so large.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Egypt's President has declared a three-day national mourning over Mubarak's death. Let's bring in the team. International diplomatic
editor Nic Robertson reported from Egypt during the Arab Spring. He joins us now from New York. And Salma Abdelaziz is an Egyptian born CNN producer
joining us out of London. And it's good to have you both.
[10:05:00]
Nic, a strongman at times, seemingly invincible for 30 years, undone by these uprisings in 2011. How will he be remembered around the world?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, I think it would be -- will be his sort of strong man image that consistency, but
inflexibility and inability to change. And perhaps quite simply coming from the military ranks and not being a real politician, not being able to move
with the times. Not being able to move with the fact the population of his country doubled during his presidency to 80 million people.
He was somebody that when he came into office, talked about getting rid of nepotism, talked about getting rid of corruption. Yet by the time he was
leaving, thrown out of office, his expectation appeared to be that one of his sons would take over his place.
Corruption and inefficiencies within government and across the country were ruining the economy. Education which had been such a bright light in Egypt
over so many years, but that light was being slowly sort of extinguished. The expectations of the people under his rule were the expectations of
people living under an extreme autocracy, a dictatorship where political rivals are locked up. So this was not -- this was not the image that he
came to power on.
He brought Egypt back into the Arab fold in the mid-1980s. He was able to sort of build bridges and make allies across the globe that saw his strong-
man tactics in Egypt as a vital part of regional stability and security. And, indeed, that's the enduring image under the current President in Egypt
today.
So I think that's the way he's going to be remembered. Somebody who didn't change, didn't bend, did the things he said he wouldn't do and essentially
didn't do well by his people. Yet internationally was a vital part of the architecture of stability in the Middle East.
ANDERSON: Selma, what do we know about Hosni Mubarak's funeral at this point?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: Well, Becky, we do know that he's going to get a military funeral. State media is already reporting that according to
law, because he was senior military officer, he will receive a military funeral tomorrow. Now that is to be expected. There's also three days of
mourning that have been announced in the country. And Egyptian state television already is filling the air waves with memorials, remembrances of
a man that state TV is describing as a national hero. A war hero. Someone to be respected, admired, to be laid to rest in peace.
Now, of course, there are many who would dispute this view of President Mubarak. But it's important again to emphasize that he was a senior ranking
member of the military. President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, the current ruler of Egypt, is also a member of the military. And the military holds a great
deal of power in Egypt over the economy, over the government, and so there really is a message here from the Egyptian government, from the Egyptian
military
He is one of our own. He will be buried respectfully and at a time in the Middle East where very little is guaranteed. We can guarantee that one of
our own, President Hosni Mubarak, despite his conflict with the country, despite being overthrown by a popular revolution, will be buried with
respect and dignity -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Nic, you've explained how you believe Hosni Mubarak will be remembered around the world. It has to be said -- I mean, we are talking
nearly a decade now after those uprisings in 2011. Have world leaders moved on to a certain extent?
ROBERTSON: Well they certainly got a lot of other issues, you know, to contemplate around the world at the moment, but geopolitics is still
central to that. The rise of China, the power of Russia in the Middle East and indeed Russia's influence in the neighbor of Egypt, Libya, just across
the border.
I think, you know, yes, the world has moved on, and forgotten. But the mold has been set in Egypt. And while, you know, President -- former President
Hosni Mubarak gets a funeral that will be broadcast on state television, his predecessor, rather, the person who sort of followed on for him,
Muhammad Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood leader who was elected after the Arab Spring, ignominiously toppled, if you will, by the current president,
President el-Sisi. When he died, his funeral was largely held away from public view. And certainly without national ceremony.
So the dye in many ways was set for Egypt under Mubarak.
[10:10:00]
It continues to be on that track. It continues to be a vital interlocutor for regional powers, be they Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, be
they the United States, and be they the interest of Russia as well. Egypt is -- has a history of being a place of intellectual thought, a place of
ideas, a place of bringing parties together.
But it hasn't, at the moment, been best served for the Egyptian people who live in a period right now where there isn't freedom of speech. Where
opposition members are locked up. Political opposition members are locked en masse and journalists don't have the freedom of speech and the freedom
to cover news events around the country that are experienced in the rest of the world.
So I think you know, when you look, large picture at Mubarak's legacy, it will be seen -- that will be interpreted through the legacy also of the
current President who very much inherited all those ranks of power.
ANDERSON: Salma and Nic, appreciate it. Thank you.
Next hour, I'll be speaking to the former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, another key figure in the Middle East peace process about his
memories of President Mubarak and the legacy that he has left. That is in about an hour and 20 minutes from now.
You're with CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, the coronavirus spreading and far reaching as far as where I am in the Middle East. We're going to explain
the regional outbreak for you just ahead.
And a trip high on pomp and style. U.S. President Donald Trump wrapping up a visit to India with a state banquet after a news conference in New Delhi.
Details are coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world is facing a dual energy challenge as hundreds of millions lift themselves out of poverty much more energy will be needed
and dramatically fewer emissions. The dual energy challenge is one of the world's biggest challenges.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All right now, we are watching new epidemics outbreaks of the coronavirus pop up as if from nowhere in some cases right around the world.
And worryingly in places that can least afford to deal with it. Right now in this part of the world, the Middle East, Iran emerging as a breeding
ground. From there we've seen the pathogen spreading out to Iraq and Afghanistan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, even as far as Lebanon.
Remember, for some of these countries sealing off Iran is a very difficult political calculation. But others are taking a lead. Turkey, Afghanistan,
Iraq and Pakistan are sealing off their borders in some way or another with the Islamic Republic.
Well, at home, Iran reporting 95 confirmed cases. Among them, its own deputy health minister. You can see him here. He was clearly not well at
this point.
Well, outside of Asia, the largest outbreak in Italy with almost 300 cases. To work through the biological, the economic and political angles across
the world, let's connect you through our reporters.
[10:15:00]
CNN's Arwa Damon is in Istanbul. She is covering the regional outbreak which is really very concerning. John Defterios in Riyadh following the
money. Melissa Bell in Venice and Dr. Sanjay Gutpa at CNN's worldwide headquarters.
Let me start with you, Arwa. Because at this point, we are seeing a real spike in cases in Iran. We've seen video of the deputy health minister at a
press conference wiping his brow, and we find out subsequently has the coronavirus. I mean, we are seeing countries around this region closing
their borders with Iran. Just how bad are things at this point?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For the population here looking at this, it most certainly seems very ominous, Becky. I mean,
Iran's deputy health minister appeared on TV, as you were saying, and then 24 hours later himself is diagnosed. And looking at that clip, I think one
of the first things that struck me was he wasn't wearing a face mask even though he was clearly seemed to be quite ill in that video. No one around
him was.
And then when you look at the numbers that you were mentioning there in that higher mortality rate that seems to exist in Iran, it also lends
itself to the question, not just about transparency in that country but how well equipped is Iran to deal with this kind of an outbreak? Why is the
death rate there so much higher when compared to the global average.
And broadly speaking, across the region, you have a number of very, very vulnerable populations, Becky. You have countries whose health care systems
are ill equipped to deal with this kind of an outbreak. And then you have populations such as refugee populations in countries like Syria, like
Yemen, even in Iraq, in Lebanon, in Jordan. I mean, an outbreak in any one of these areas could potentially be devastating and very, very difficult to
contain and control.
The closure of the borders with Iran and its neighboring countries is also having an impact. If we just take Iraq as an example, that itself has five
cases right now. One an Iranian student. The other a family of four that just returned from Iran. But Iraq has closed its border with Iran. This is
a necessity perhaps, yes, but then the country's not going to just end up potentially dealing with the health effects of the coronavirus, but the
economic impact of it regionally speaking is going to be quite significant as well.
ANDERSON: Arwa, Turkey as you know has sealed off its border from Iran. It has not reported any cases so far. I interviewed Ibrahim Kalin, the Turkish
presidential spokesman yesterday. Have a listen to what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IBRAHIM KALIN, TURKISH PRESIDENTIAL SPOKESMAN: We want to contain this. We want to help Iran, obviously. We do not want them to feel isolated or left
alone. It's a global phenomenon at this point. And I think as we did with the Chinese, we should be working with those countries and putting aside
all political differences, et cetera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: An attempt to show some support for a country that Turkey has close ties with. But you can see where the sort of political calculations
are at this point around this region -- Arwa.
DAMON: Yes, and you know, look, countries are going to have to put the health of their own nationals first. Especially if they are not equipped
necessarily to be able to handle this. Look, everyone is terrified of coming close to the coronavirus and understandably so.
Turkey for his part today evacuated a number of its citizens from Iran. There was a flight that landed with 132 passengers and crew on it that
landed in Ankara with 17 suspected corona cases on board. Everyone on that plane is going to be quarantined for 14 days.
And given what a hub Turkey is, especially Istanbul, what a travel hub it is, it's understandable that the authorities are going to want to be taking
additional precautions. Because again when you look at the way that this virus has been spreading and the way that in Italy, for example, a couple
of cases just increased significantly in numbers seemingly overnight. I think people in this region in particular are very afraid of that
happening.
Again, for a number of reasons. One, the health care system, the fact that you have any number of very vulnerable populations where it would be very
difficult to try to contain or control an outbreak like this one.
[10:20:00]
And so Turkey especially, but other countries as well, are being overly cautious at this stage.
ANDERSON: Let me stay in region. Thank you, Arwa. I want to get to John Defterios who is in Riyadh. The coronavirus, top of the agenda at a recent
meeting of G20 finance ministers who clearly expressed some concern about how this might play out. I know you have spoken to the energy minister in
Saudi today. What did he tell you?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: You know, Becky, this coronavirus, beyond the human tragic toll, continues to weigh on the
financial markets but specifically the oil market itself. So that means it hovers all over the Middle East. We had that 5 percent sell-off yesterday.
So of Abdulaziz bin Salman is the minister of energy. And I asked him is there a worry here that the OPEC plus agreement that has 23 countries is
getting far too complacent? And there's a sidebar -- it could strain relations between Saudi Arabia and Russia. Saudi wants to cut more oil from
the market. Russia is taking its time. Here's his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDULAZIZ BIN SALMAN BIN ABDULAZIZ AL-SAUD, SAUDI OIL MINISTER: It requires attendance. I think the whole world need to put its resources and
abilities to make sure that everybody would be attended be it medical, be it financial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEFTERIOS: So once again, the minister of energy taking a very nuanced approach which is normal here in Saudi Arabia. Not wanting to single out
Russia but saying that we have to step up.
Now how about Saudi Inc., Becky. We had Amin Nasser, the CEO of Saudi Aramco on a panel today. And I thought this was interesting. Because he
made it very clear. We're not looking at one quarter of a drop here. He's planning for Aramco to have challenges through the first half of 2020. The
same thing for other oil producers.
So what does that mean? China imports 10 million barrels a day. It's the number one importer. Saudi Aramco is the number one supplier at 2 million
barrels a day. But this is ditto for Kuwait. It's the same for Iran, for the UAE, for Iraq. So a slowdown in China is important and the other big
customers for these folks here in the Middle East, South Korea, Japan and India. So they need to see the virus contained. They're national oil
companies. They have deep pockets. They say they have to plan for this, but this is not a blip like we saw in SARS in 2003. They're basically planning
for five or six months.
ANDERSON: John Defterios is in Riyadh. Let me get you across to Italy. Melissa is standing by. And the Italian Prime Minister is speaking today.
In an attempt one assumes to try to sort of allay any panic in the country, has he managed to be successful?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, even as he spoke, we were hearing about new regions that were affected here in Italy, Becky, Sicily, Tuscany.
There are now seven Italian regions in all that have been affected by the coronavirus where cases have been identified. There are on nearly 300 cases
here in the country. And Giuseppe Conte was speaking today but he had also spoken yesterday and perhaps slightly alarmingly. Explained that one of the
problems had been that when coronavirus had first appeared at that hospital just outside Milan in the Lombardy region that the protocols that should
have been in place to ensure that it didn't spread hadn't been respected and that that had contributed to its spread.
So, yes, there is some rowing back and some explanation and reassuring word coming from Rome today. Not least in the shape of the World Health
Organization have been visiting Italy and that had to say that it believed that everything that could be done was being done.
But the spokeswoman for the World Health Organization, Becky, also explained that in Italy, unlike in other countries, much of the
organization and the day-to-day running of the health systems is done at the regional level. Now up here in northern Italy in regions like the
Lombardy and Veneto -- here where I am in Venice, those are regions run by the Northern League, not by the coalition that is in power.
So there was some suggestion that perhaps it was no surprise. This from the World Health Organization that there had been more cases here in Italy
because there was not that single chain of command that you had in European countries. And yet, of course, with Europe's not porous but open borders
within the Schengen zone, we're starting to see other cases in neighboring countries, Austria, Croatia, Spain, including one Italian man who's on
holiday in Tenerife. All of the other residents in that hotel have been placed on lockdown.
So this is clearly a developing situation. We're waiting to hear whether an eighth region will be on that list later today. We're also looking very
closely at the twice a day briefings in which we find out just how many cases and how many new deaths there are to report -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Melissa is in Italy. I want to bring in Dr. Sanjay Gutpa at this point. We have now been talking to each other over the period of a month.
It does seem remarkable that we are still having these conversations.
[10:25:02]
Not least that about whether this is a pandemic or not. No one wants to foment panic, not least it seems the W.H.O. What do you make of where we
are at, Sanjay, when you look at the number of cases, you look at these clusters developing which aren't necessarily associated with direct travel
from China. And the kind of wider global map. What do you make of where we are at.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no, I think that last point is the crucial point, Becky. When you start to see what they
call sustained transmission within these other areas. So first you see people who are developing these infections, have never traveled to these
countries in Asia, that's this first step. And then you start to see them transmitting it to other people within these regions. That's what really
starts to flip the definition of this, if you will, into pandemic.
Part of this is semantics I will tell you. I mean, there are some strict criteria for what is a pandemic. But even when you dig deep into those
criteria, some of it is semantics and it's balanced as you correctly point out, Becky, with this idea that, look, we know calling this a pandemic, the
World Health Organization knows calling it a pandemic will cause a fair amount of panic in many countries around the world. And yet there are
countries around the world whose public health systems aren't going to be as equipped to handle this. Dr. Tedros, head of the W.H.O., he was asked
specifically about this pandemic point. And here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: For the moment, we are not witnessing the uncontained global
spread of this virus. And we are not witnessing large scale civil diseases of this. Does this virus have pandemic potential? Absolutely it has. Are we
there yet? From our assessment, not yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: So this stays a public health emergency of international concern. That's the current definition of what's happening here. I should point out
as well, you know, SARS is often invoked as a comparison from 2003-time frame. That wasn't a pandemic either. And we know now that this new
coronavirus does spread more easily than SARS did. So we'll see how this changes over the next couple of weeks in terms of that definition of
pandemic -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Sanjay, for those who are watching in this region of the Middle East and around the world, who are quite frankly concerned, thought we'd be
over this by now, maybe in a part of the world where we are seeing these clusters, what's your advice?
GUPTA: Well, I think that -- this is frightening. There's no question because it's a new virus. And yet if you look at the large-scale studies
coming out of China, the vast majority of people, meaning 80 percent of people are so who become infected, who are diagnosed with this novel
coronavirus, either have no symptoms or minimal symptoms. And keep in mind, again, there's probably lots of people because they're not sick, who don't
go to the doctor, don't go to the clinic to get tested.
We also see that outside of Australia, the majority of these cases still in the northern hemisphere. So could this start to develop some sort of
seasonal variation as it starts to get warmer in that northern hemisphere? Could this start to -- the numbers start to go down? We're starting to see
some of that in China already. It's hard to predict.
What I would say, though, this is behaving like a flu virus in many ways. It seems to be primarily spread through respiratory droplets. Although
people who don't have symptoms or minimal symptoms can spread it. That's a small number. The vast majority of spread is coming from people who are
clearly sick through respiratory droplets contaminating surfaces. People touch those surfaces, touch their mouth or their nose. That's the primary
way this seems to be spreading still. Those are basic flu precautions.
And you almost seem silly. I almost feel silly saying this in the midst of this ongoing outbreak, but, you know, the basics still do apply here in
terms of avoiding sick people, not touching surfaces, staying home if you yourself are sick. Washing your hands frequently. All of those things do
apply and they make a difference.
In the end, Becky, with SARS, there was no vaccine. They were working on one but the outbreak sort of started to fizzle out before that vaccine was
actually completed. It was basic public health measures that ended up making a difference and I think that will happen here. Keeping in mind
Arwa's point I think which is a really good one. That some of these places around the world, they just don't have the same public health
infrastructure and it's going to be more challenging for them.
ANDERSON: You make a very good point as did Arwa. Thank you, Dr. Sanjay Gutpa in the house for you.
[10:30:00]
And we have just learned that a special flight arranged to evacuate Turkish citizens from Iran has landed in Ankara. Passengers and crew will be
quarantined for 14 days. There are 132 passengers and crew on board. Seventeen of the passengers are being treated as possible coronavirus
cases.
We've got an awful lot more keeping you bang up to date at CNN.com. Live updates for you there as you would expect. You're watching CONNECT THE
WORLD.
After a short break, we'll return to our other top story of the day. The death of Egypt's former President Hosni Mubarak. We speak to a former
British ambassador to Egypt for his thoughts, memories and legacy. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All right. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD live from Abu Dhabi. If you are just joining us, you are more than welcome.
Our big story tonight, the death of the former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak at the age of 91. He led Egypt for nearly three decades with a
foreign policy aimed at diffusing regional conflict. But at home, he ruled with an iron fist, seemingly untouchable. The strong man of the Arab world.
Well, that role came crashing down in mere weeks. Mubarak ousted during the 2011 Arab Spring protests. He was convicted but later acquitted of killing
protesters living his final years in relative peace and prosperity.
Well, my next guest says of Mubarak -- before 2011 was a cunning consolidator and cautious statesman, who for 30 years made it impossible
for Egyptians to imagine a world without him.
John Casson was British ambassador to Egypt from 2014 until 2018. He joins me now from London. And, John, you go on to say his rule is defined for now
by the way it ended in 2011. Explain what you mean.
JOHN CASSON, FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO EGYPT: Well, I think today anybody, particularly people in Egypt, when they think about Mubarak, of
course, thinks of those really dramatic events in 2011. People that wished there had been greater progress towards freedom and democracy, loathe him
as a corrupt and vicious dictator. I think the people who are now in power in Egypt see him as a warning not to allow any dissent or the same fate
might befall them. And I think a lot of Egyptians feel weary and nostalgic for the relative predictability of those days.
But I think it's important to look beyond that and just remember, as I said, that for 30 years, it was impossible for Egyptians to imagine a world
without this man. And he defined Egypt for those three decades.
[10:35:00]
ANDERSON: Former Israeli ambassador to Egypt, Itzhak Levanon, tells CNN and I quote here. Mubarak assisted a lot on the Palestinian issue. He
supported the position of the Palestinian Authority and helped to bring us and them closer together.
But he also accused Mubarak of, quote, hollowing out Israeli/Egyptian relations. What do you make of Mubarak's legacy in Middle Eastern relations
and perhaps the wider world?
CASSON: I think Mubarak was fundamentally a very cautious statesman abroad. And you have to remember he came to power after incredibly dramatic
events. Two very revolutionary presidents. Sadat who had done the Camp David peace deal with Israel. Who he saw gunned down next to him, and he
was wounded in the same assassination.
And so he kept Israel and to some extent the West at arm's length. He did enough to ensure American aid, particularly important bailout in 1991 at
the same time he supported the first Gulf war. But people often describe the nature of relations between Egypt and Israel as a cold peace in those
days. And he didn't fulfill some of the hopes people had for much greater people-to-people contact. Egyptians weren't really encouraged to think of
Israel as a friend or a partner.
ANDERSON: You were ambassador to Egypt in the post-Mubarak era, of course. When you consider the conversations you will have had back then about the
former President who ran the country for some 30 years, which jump out most?
CASSON: I think what really strikes me is the evolution in the way that people talked about him through the period after the Arab Spring and
through the years that I was in Egypt. Because in many ways, he is the textbook example of the fundamental challenges that many Arab states face
which is they are harsh but weak. They're good at control. They're good at clamping down on their population and consolidating power for the family
and for the military. They're not good at deep, social and economic reform that provides a longer-term flourishing society. And therefore, a longer-
term basis for stability.
And what we've seen in Egypt in the nine years since the Arab Spring is a return to the first part of that equation. If anything, the crackdown has
been harsher. The human rights situation has been more miserable in the years since 2013 certainly. And Egypt's current rule is still haunted by
the same dilemma. Which is how do you move from short-term stability to healthy long-term stability built on an inclusive society. The number of
people in prison, the way people are abused in prison. The poverty rate is significantly greater now than in the years running up to 2011. And so I
think it's important that we remember that the issues that led to Mubarak's downfall haven't been solved. They've just been cattled.
ANDERSON: Ambassador, thank you.
You're watching CNN. We'll be right back after a break.
First, the latest in our global energy challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEFTERIOS (voice-over): According to the latest data, energy poverty continues to affect around 1 in 7 people in the world. In areas like
Calpan, a small agricultural region two hours drive from Mexico City, the health impact of having no access to electricity can be severe.
ALEXANDER EATON, CEO AND COFOUNDER SISTEMA BIOBOLSA: More people die every single year because of poor indoor air quality from cooking on wood fuel or
not having clean sources of energy than all war and violence combined. So it is a serious health issue.
DEFTERIOS: In 2010, Alex Eaton started a Sistema Biobolsa, a social enterprise that manufactures equipment to help farmers turn their waste
into a clean and sustainable energy source.
EATON: We feel that there's been a poor framing of the idea of waste. So we believe that there is no waste in natural ecosystems. That's how we've
designed our business and how we've designed our product. To allow the waste streams from small farms to be turned into something productive and
doesn't produce greenhouse gases.
DEFTERIOS: Their solution is this biodigester which has a novel feed stock.
EATON: Dump the manure in. It flows in via gravity.
What our system does is takes the organic waste that's generated at the farm. So mostly animal manure that ferment using naturally formed bacteria.
That produces a methane gas which we can capture, channel straight to the energy use. So we can cook. We can even heat water. We can do all the
things that a household or a farm needs to do. And what comes out the other side is actually an organic fertilizer. So now this waste has been
completely transformed and it's safe to use as a soil amendment that sinks carbon it into the ground and helps people actually have healthier and
bigger harvests.
[10:40:03]
DEFTERIOS: For farmers like Jose Fermin, installing the biodigester is not only providing clean energy but also brings financial benefits.
JOSE FERMIN, FARMER (through translator): I used to spend between 180 and $200 on natural gas each month. It's been two years since we installed the
biodigester. And now I don't spend any money at all.
EATON: I believe that on the order of about 2 billion people could be using this type of technology around the world. That would really transform
rural economies in a way that I think would change the energy sector and make that linkage between energy and agriculture a little bit stronger.
DEFTERIOS: With operations up and running in poor continents already, Sistema could play a vital real in helping regions like Calpan up to speed
with the global energy transition.
John Defterios, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, the sports world is buzzing about Deontary Wilder's explanation for why he lost Saturday's big boxing match to Tyson Fury. He
blames this. An 18-kilogram costume featuring flashing lights and batteries to power them. Alex Thomas, what's the story here?
ALEX THOMAS, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, Becky, many boxing experts predicted a Deontary Wilder win and says he lost his WBC belt to Tyson Fury. And I
guess if reports of a third fight between the pair are true, we think Wilder is going to exercise a clause in the contract. He's got to find an
excuse or he's going to psyche himself out before the first bell of the next fight. We'll have more on that coming up in "WORLD SPORT."
ANDERSON: Fantastic. Taking a short break, folks. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:45:00]
(WORLD SPORT)
[10:56:18]
THOMAS: And, Becky, I mentioned Frank Lampard being Chelsea player rather than their manager when they face each other in that Champions League final
in 2012. Pedro had been to the studio. It was left to the fans though. Which is that the old Munich Olympic stadium that had a screening at the
game. 50,000 Bayern fans in there who couldn't get into the actual match across town. And when Chelsea won late on penalties, they all filed out
silently passed our broadcast position hearing me speak English about Chelsea's famous win. I got a few dodgy looks, it's fair to say.
ANDERSON: Good for you and you survived it. Thank you for that.
Coming up -- that's Alex Thomas with WORLD SPORT. On CONNECT THE WORLD we look at the legacy at one of the Arab world's heavyweights. Egypt's former
President Hosni Mubarak who has died at the age of 91. We'll speak to a man who worked very closely with him. Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak
about his memories of the former Egyptian President.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:00:00]
END
