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Eleven U.S. States Have Not Issued Stay-At-Home Orders; U.S. Unemployment Nightmare; Temporary Mortuary under Construction as London Death Toll Rises; Nearly 1,400 Deaths in New York City; Spain Reports Highest Numbers in a Single Day; France ICU Patients Now Exceed Hospitals' Capacity; Backlog of 160K Tests at Just One Laboratory; Ethics Debates and Hospital Shortages; Virgin's Rocket Team to Produce Ventilators; U.S. Paid for Russian Medical Aid Planeload; Hungarian Prime Minister Uses Virus as Cover for Power Grab; English Football Accused of Having "Moral Vacuum." Aired 10-11a ET
Aired April 02, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. We're coming to you once again live from London this hour. I'm Hala Gorani. The very latest on the
coronavirus pandemic.
There are two very worrying numbers coming out of the United States. More than 5,000 dead and more than 6.5 million newly unemployed.
We'll look at the British government trying to ramp up testing after coming under fire for a delayed reaction. We have a live report.
And what Russia is calling humanitarian aid, others are calling a PR exercise during a global pandemic.
We're taking you all around the world to cover the latest in the COVID-19 pandemic.
And we start with that grim number out of the United States, a milestone in that country, the number of U.S. deaths from COVID-19 now tops 5,000.
And what is important is the trajectory here of the death curve, it has more than doubled in just three days. And there are some 216,000 confirmed
U.S. cases, by far the most in the world. Brynn Gingras has more on this ever expanding threat.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York governor Andrew Cuomo sending a warning to other elected officials, while his state is
devastated with the highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths in the nation.
ANDREW CUOMO (D), GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: It is a New York problem today. Tomorrow it is a Kansas problem and a Texas problem and a New Mexico
problem.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Florida among states giving into growing pressure, issuing a stay at home order from Friday until the end of April.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I did speak with the president about it. He agreed with the approach of focusing on the hot spots. But at the same
time, you know, he understood this is another 30-day situation.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Despite red flags from the medical community, governors in some states like Tennessee have yet to do so.
GOV. BILL LEE (R-TN): There is very little evidence about exactly how and when these are most effective and working. But it is a really hard
decision.
GINGRAS (voice-over): California issued the first statewide stay at home mandate on March 19th and the governor asking those who haven't --
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): What are you waiting for?
What more evidence do you need?
GINGRAS (voice-over): President Trump still refusing to enact the same nationally.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are some states that don't have much of a problem. You have to give a little bit of
flexibility.
GINGRAS (voice-over): That's not what the surgeon general suggested earlier Wednesday.
DR. JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: My advice to America would be that these guidelines are a national stay at home order, the more we social
distance, the more we stay at home, the less spread of disease there will be.
GINGRAS (voice-over): The New Jersey governor says there is no time for flexibility.
GOV. PHIL MURPHY (NJ): Please, God, the social distance distancing works. It is simple. Stay home until further notice.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Meanwhile, vice president Mike Pence says it is not the Trump administration's fault the coronavirus response was delayed.
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mid-January, the CDC was still assessing that the risk of the coronavirus to the American people was
low. The reality is that we could have been better off if China had been more forthcoming.
GINGRAS (voice-over): But as medical options expand in big cities like Los Angeles, Seattle and Detroit to handle an anticipated overflow of sick
people, state leaders want to know when they'll have enough protective equipment and testing kits to supply their hospitals.
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (MI): We should have a unified national strategy, so that every American, no matter what state you live in, you know you'll get
the care you need.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, Brynn Gingras joins me now live from New York.
We saw there in your report, really, the need for more equipment, respirators, ventilators as well.
At this stage, are New York hospitals, where the epicenter is in America, still able to cope with the influx?
GINGRAS: You know, they're strained. It is across the board, like it is not just, you know, the public hospitals or the city hospitals that are
private. All of them are strained at this point.
We saw a video from a doctor, who is inside one of those private E.R.s working. And the people are just lined up in the hallways, waiting for ICU
beds or just waiting there as they get oxygen.
The state is really trying to balance all of these patients, they have the makeshift hospitals with the Comfort hospital, that, you know, came ashore
earlier this week, and the Javits Center, big convention center.
But still the strain is there because so many patients are coming in, in bad condition. Not just the numbers, it is the condition that all these
people are coming in.
[10:05:00]
GINGRAS: So yes, we learned here in New York City, the mayor called it D- Day on Sunday, that the amount of equipment that they will need is going to be really at a very, very low point by this Sunday. And so they're asking
for millions and millions more masks, hundreds of ventilators to get them into the next couple of weeks when we expect the surge to really happen
here in New York City.
GORANI: All right. And a similar picture by the way here in the U.K. and we'll get to that in a moment. Brynn Gingras, thank you very much, live
from New York.
The economic nightmare is like the medical ones, seem to be coming true by the way. Some of the worst case scenario numbers are materializing. We
learn today, for instance, that there was a shocking U.S. unemployment number, just released from the government. 6.6 million workers filed for
unemployment last week for the first time.
It is a new historic high, by far. And that historic high was set just three weeks ago. Richard Quest joins me now live from New York, the host of
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS."
Jobless claims, plus 6.6 million, which means over the last two weeks, Richard, 10 million total new jobless claims. This is a huge, huge problem
for the U.S. and the world economy at this stage.
RICHARD QUEST, CNNMONEY EDITOR AT LARGE: Yes, and that new number is exactly twice the 3.3 million that we first thought. It is truly horrific
that so many people have lost their jobs in such a short period of time.
The headline number doesn't tell the whole story, though, because many of those people who have been laid off or furloughed will be taken back on
again once the U.S. economy has reopened, whenever that might be.
What employers are doing is they are furloughing and laying off staff so that they are transferring their payroll, if you like, to unemployment
benefit. Many places in this country, you are an employee at will; basically you can be hired and fired at the employer's discretion. That's
what's happening at the moment. It is awful.
It shows that the U.S. government, the measures they put in place are necessary but they won't be sufficient. There will need to be a few
trillion more to provide a proper safety net.
You know, they say the unemployment rate could go up to 15 percent. And also we had terrible numbers out of Spain. The U.K. has awful numbers.
Hala, we know the reasons why; it doesn't make it any less dreadful.
GORANI: Right and also, in the United States, the question is going to be how much will the government be stepping in, how much of people's pay will
be made up or will be sort of relieved by unemployment benefits.
And then we know employers take their time hiring people back, sometimes they hire them back at lower salaries. All these people, their livelihoods,
mortgage payments, ability to spend, to get the economy going again is so severely diminished that you have to ask yourself, from an economic
perspective, what kind of impact will we see?
Because a huge economy like the United States, such a big worldwide consumer of goods coming from Asia and elsewhere, you know, this could be a
very long lasting depression.
QUEST: We got some numbers on that from Bank of America this morning. They're forecasting that the recession in the U.S., they thought it was
going to be two quarters, now saying three quarters, they say it will be deeper than expected, they say 15 percent unemployment.
And to your exact point, possibly only 85 percent of employers, if that, of employees will be taken back on. Boeing this morning has announced a
voluntary layoff scheme, recognizing that, when the planemaker reopens, they won't need as many people.
The composition of the workforce may need to be different and so now they are already shedding staff permanently. I expect that to continue across
the swaths of the U.S. economy. We have run out of adjectives to describe the unprecedented nature. Staying with that thought, the recovery will be
likewise.
GORANI: Right. And then we're talking about different approaches as well. For instance, in Germany, you know, even for independent workers, self-
employed people, the payments have arrived rather quickly.
In other countries, not so much. In order to try to put money in people's bank accounts so that they will have that money to spend once these
lockdowns are lifted, that is really what is incredibly important right now.
[10:10:00]
GORANI: It is also a question of timing.
QUEST: It is. And I have a scintilla, not much, of sympathy for the authorities, who have, overnight, while civil servants are also ill from
COVID-19, worried about family members, having to social distance, putting in place the mechanisms to pay these people, to register, authorize,
approve and pay.
To some extent the U.S. has done it the right way by doing it through the tax code, by looking at taxpayers. But even in the U.S., undocumented
workers, even those who legitimately pay taxes, won't be included. I don't know why we might be surprised at the bureaucratic confusion and chaos. It
was inevitable, regrettable though that is.
GORANI: All right, well, we're really in for a very difficult period, going forward. Thanks very much, Richard Quest, we'll see you on "QUEST
MEANS BUSINESS" a little later on CNN.
We were talking with Brynn Gingras about the need and the calls for more testing so that we get a better understanding of how many people are
carrying the virus and therefore how many more people these individuals who are asymptomatic could infect.
Well, the British media is lashing out at the government of Boris Johnson in this country, the United Kingdom, as the number of coronavirus cases in
the U.K. surpasses 33,000.
Here is a look at some of today's front pages. Prime minister Boris Johnson, who himself has tested positive for COVID-19, you're seeing the
"Daily Telegraph" there, "Questions Without Answers," Boris Johnson wrote a column for the "Daily Telegraph" for many years and they have been known to
be more sympathetic to the prime minister than other publications.
Now Boris Johnson as I mentioned who himself has coronavirus says more testing will soon be available. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: First of all, let's be in no doubt, this has been a sad, sad day, 563 more cases, a record in a single day. Our
thoughts go out to the families of the victims, all their friends.
We're also massively increasing testing. And I want to say a special word about testing, because it is so important. And as I've said for weeks and
weeks, this is the way through. This is how we will unlock the coronavirus puzzle. This is how we will defeat it in the end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And that's Boris Johnson who, as I mentioned, tested positive for COVID-19 and is self-quarantining.
Nic Robertson is at a London testing center and the criticism has also been directed at the government for not testing front line healthcare workers,
who may be carriers of the virus and infect others without knowing it.
What is going on where you are?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, this is a car park, set up over the past few days to test precisely those key front line
workers, those healthcare workers that we have seen some of them being tested here.
It is a drive-in facility, they drive in, they go through some documentation, they have to be on a list to be admitted. Then they get
swabbed and they drive back off.
What we're hearing from the prime minister is what he's being criticized for, for overpromising and underdelivering. Two weeks ago or more, he was
saying the testing in the country would be up to 25,000 tests a day. It is still struggling to get beyond 10,000 or so.
The government is now saying it could get 12,500 by the end of the week. That looks like the end of April.
And why is that so critical?
Quite simply this: there are half a million healthcare workers in the National Health Service, the NHS, be they doctors, nurses and other staff.
One quarter of them, 125,000, are estimated to be at home, self-isolating, because their families may be sick or perhaps they think they may have
symptoms for the virus.
The government wants to get them back to work. It is made available these tests now, these drive-in test facilities. Of those 125,000 estimated
health workers stuck at home, so far only 2,800 have been tested.
This is a monumental task. The government has been overpromising, it appears, and underdelivering and that's why they're under so much criticism
at the moment, Hala.
GORANI: All right, Nic Robertson, thank you for that.
By the way, more grim news, a temporary mortuary is being built in East London. The facility will serve as a holding point before cremation or
burial.
[10:15:00]
GORANI: Relatives and loved ones will not be allowed to visit the site, adding to the heartbreak, one cannot imagine how painful that must be.
There is a positive headline, if you want to call it that, European aerospace company Airbus will deliver 400,000 surgical masks to healthcare
workers in the U.K. It is part of 6 million masks that have already been brought to Europe from China.
Well, still to come this evening, CNN obtains internal materials from one of America's largest testing labs, showing a backlog of tens of thousands
of COVID-19 tests. Why these delays are so detrimental.
Plus, as the Spanish death toll surges, along comes another wave of pain, historic unemployment. We'll look at those numbers next.
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GORANI: Welcome back. This is the Chinese doctor who first raised the alarm about coronavirus when it first emerged in Wuhan. He later died of
the disease and, today, the Chinese government has officially labeled him a martyr, months after police accused him of spreading so-called rumors about
the virus.
And we heard reports of other whistleblowers being harassed as well. I want to take a look at the situation in key locations across Europe for you.
COVID-19 cases are rising to never before seen numbers.
Specifically I want to mention Spain because the figure there is absolutely shocking. The death toll has hit 10,000 today. That's not the number of
cases; that is the number of people who have died. You can see the country on lockdown here, leading to an historic spike in monthly unemployment
claims.
Al Goodman joins me now live from Madrid with the very latest.
And we know that several weeks ago Spain, as you have been reporting, implemented some very strict lockdown measures. And yet here we are, more
than 10,000 dead today.
How do we explain this?
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Officials, health officials explain that, because of the lag from the time of the lockdown, which in Spain is almost
three weeks now and due to continue to Easter, there is a lag from the time they realized that they needed to lockdown, to tell people to stay at home
and then this onrush of cases.
Now the 950 -- the 10,000 deaths in the most recent figures that came out, 950 people died in just one 24-hour period, the most recent figures.
And if we look back at just six days, more than 50 percent of those 10,000 deaths have come in the past six days. Officials say they're cautiously
optimistic that Spain is entering a stabilization phase, how they call it, in the fight against COVID-19.
[10:20:00]
GOODMAN: Because the increases in the number of deaths and in the confirmed new cases in percentage terms has been declining steadily. That's
giving them hope. But they have not dropped their guard.
So let me show you this tent hospital, this hospital that is put up by the military, next to one of the biggest hospitals in Madrid, this is to take
on the extra patients that have been coming into this hospital.
And you're seeing these kinds of tent hospitals at -- outside hospitals across the country now. So they're really rushing, even though the lockdown
is in place, they're rushing to handle this further influx of patients.
Also, the health minister this day announcing that a Spanish company just south of Madrid is going to start making ventilators, 100 a day, starting
on Friday, up to 5,000 to get ventilators, one of the pieces of badly needed equipment being made locally now. They are not going to get those
abroad, which will be hard to get anyway.
GORANI: All right. At the E.U. level, there have been some proposals about how to handle the inevitable widespread, high level, historic level of
unemployment, including in a country like Spain. Here is what Ursula van der Leyen had to say about what the E.U. response should be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URSULA VAN DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: Short is Europe supported, short time work. It can mitigate the effects of the recession,
it keeps people in work, it enables companies to return to the market with renewed vigor.
The commission will provide loans to those member states that need them to strengthen their short-time work schemes. These schemes now exist and are
straight across the European Union. So it can benefit all member states who want to use it. We can mobilize 100 billion euros to do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The European Commission president.
So the E.U. response, how much in Spain is that reassuring, that the E.U. is trying to come up with some sort of plan to address the economic misery
to come?
GOODMAN: Well, the Spanish prime minister has called on her and the European Union to come up with what he called a kind of new Marshall plan
to rebuild Europe after World War II. He wants one of those to help rebuild the south of Europe, particularly Spain.
But Italy has also made these kinds of calls because they have two issues on the economic front; besides the horrible health problem, on the economic
front, they have all the people coming out unemployed, the biggest unemployment data per month, anywhere in the history of Spain just came out
today.
Many more people out of work and they also are trying to take care of businesses, because they have to pay the workers or they have to try to
keep the businesses afloat. There is multiple stuff to be done and the -- here in Madrid, at least, they want the European Union, the European
Commission to do more, provide more liquidity now. That's it.
GORANI: All right, it is a union, it is an economic union above all. And it is in times of crisis that I'm sure member states hope that Brussels
steps in. Thanks very much, Al Goodman.
And Al mentioned Italy as well, well, Italy actually has the same number of cases as Spain but the Italian death toll is the highest in the world, now
topping 13,000. So the same number of cases as Spain but a higher death toll.
The prime minister is extending a national lockdown to help curb the outbreak, leaving once bustling cities like Milan deserted for the Easter
holiday and beyond. This is an aerial view of Milan. It comes as the country sees a stabilizing trend in the number of new cases in recent days.
Here is the latest from Italy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbie Nadeau in Rome. We have seen a lockdown extended to April 13th. Italian prime minister Giuseppe Conte
addressed the nation on Wednesday and said they're starting to see the positive effects of the restrictive measures but still too soon to let the
guard down yet.
A steady stabilization of the contagion rate has given hope that Italy may be past the worst of the pandemic.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Hospitals in France are running out of space to treat people infected with COVID-19 in that country. The national health agency says
there are more than 6,000 patients currently in intensive care units, exceeding the healthcare system's capacity by 1,000. This comes as France
recorded a new one day total of 509 deaths on Wednesday.
[10:25:00]
GORANI: And Indian authorities are sending 4,000 health workers to test residents of a very densely populated area in Mumbai. The neighborhood has
been sealed off since a 53-year-old man died from COVID-19 there.
The government is now reviewing its testing protocol, which will only allow those displaying symptoms to be tested. Meanwhile, the world's largest
lockdown is having a dramatic effect on India's pollution.
Take a look at the left of your screen. This is absolutely incredible. The left of your screen was India Gate in New Delhi in November. You can barely
see the gate. The photo on the right was taken three days ago -- no smog, blue skies, it appears at least from the photo, absolutely no pollution.
Still to come, as hospital resources become scarce during this pandemic, life or death decisions must be made. We will speak to an expert.
And this space rocket company is hoping to help by mass producing ventilators by early April.
Plus, here is CNN's Chris Cuomo describing his symptoms after being diagnosed positive with coronavirus. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: This virus came at me -- I've never seen anything like it. I had a fever. But 102, 103, 103 plus that wouldn't quit. And it
was like somebody was beating me like a pinata.
And I was shivering so much that, Sanjay's right, I chipped my tooth. I was up all night. I was hallucinating. My dad was talking to me. I was seeing
people from college, people I haven't seen in forever. It was freaky what I lived through last night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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GORANI: Well, the testing issue or not enough testing being done is a big theme of this pandemic around the globe. And some countries like Germany
and South Korea are testing massively but others like the U.S. and U.K. are not at all.
And CNN has uncovered disturbing evidence of a huge backlog delaying tens of thousands of results in the United States. Drew Griffin has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SR. INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: This was just two weeks ago.
TRUMP: Today we're announcing a new partnership with the private sector to vastly increase and accelerate our capacity to test for the coronavirus.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Big commercial labs coming to the rescue of a floundering coronavirus testing plan.
[10:30:00]
GRIFFIN (voice-over): But within a week of the president's major Rose Garden announcement, internal documents obtained by CNN from one of the
nation's largest clinical laboratories, expose huge backlogs, results delayed up to 10 days and demand outstripping the lab's ability to process
tests.
Data from those documents show on March 25th, last Wednesday, Quest Diagnostics had 160,000 tests on backlog, half of its total orders were
waiting to be processed and according to Quest data obtained by CNN, that backlog appeared to be growing by the day.
Quest told CNN it can now do 30,000 tests a day and recently our capacity has exceeded our demand, allowing us to reduce the backlog.
Illinois governor Jay Pritzker said the federal government has failed to produce millions of tests promised by the president and now commercial labs
can't process all the ones they do have.
J.B. PRITZKER, ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: In fact their federal testing is slowed down because they throw it all at LabCorp and Quest and they have a huge
backlog. Those tests are coming back in four to 10 days.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): It is the latest in a series of problems that is crippling coronavirus testing in the United States. Two months into the
crisis and testing is still limited only to the sickest individuals in most places, limiting health experts in knowing exactly where the virus is
spreading.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, I don't think that we're at capacity for testing, so we just don't know how big the epidemic is or how big it is
going to get.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Because of the backlog at Quest and other commercial labs, states and hospital systems tell CNN they have bypassed the logjam,
by starting to conduct their own in-house tests, which can turn around results in hours rather than days.
Louisiana has turned to its state lab to more quickly turn around the tests. But that's only for the most critical patients. All the rest go to
the backlog.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has gotten better, no question about that. But it is still a problem. The commercial labs have been challenging.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): The delays in getting test results back are straining limited supplies of personal protective equipment. Patients
suspected of COVID-19 must be treated as if they are infected, requiring hospital workers to burn through gear waiting for results, in some cases
only to find out days later they didn't need to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a direct relationship between the speed at which we can get results back for hospitalized patients and the amount of
PPE that is going to be expended in their care.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): The result of the limited testing and now huge backlogs is most of us are not going to get a test even if we are sick and,
yes, that even includes nurses on the front lines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not getting tested as healthcare providers, we are -- you know, I had a couple of friends who have said, you know, I feel
like I'm getting sick and Employee Health will say we don't have enough tests. You haven't fit all the criteria that we have in place so you're not
getting tested.
GRIFFIN: Even as testing improves, experts are telling us the 100,000 tests a day milestone announced by the administration yesterday still is
nowhere near what they say we need to get ahead of this pandemic -- Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And that was Drew Griffin.
Hospitals around the world are facing some very difficult choices as resources become more scarce. Hospitals in the U.K. have been given updated
ethics guidelines by the British Medical Association.
They outline which patients should be saved when supplies are limited. They say some of the most unwell patients may be denied access to treatments
such as intensive care or artificial ventilation. Joining me now is Dr. Douglas White, professor of medicine at the University of Pittsburgh and
the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center's chair for ethics in critical care medicine.
He co-authored a new article in the "Journal of the AMA," "A framework for rationing ventilators and critical care beds during the COVID-19 pandemic."
So talk to us about how this system could work, because from the outside looking in, Doctor, it sounds borderline heartless that you have a system
in place that will kind of triage people based on whether or not they get lifesaving help.
How would it work?
DR. DOUGLAS WHITE, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: Right. Well, I guess first thing I would say is that the only thing more heartless than a system to
allocate the resources is to not have a system because that will lead to many more deaths.
And so we developed this framework because we thought the existing ethical guidance from some state laws in the U.S. as well as some professional
society guidelines were really ethically problematic in the sense they excluded certain patients from access to intensive care, like the very
elderly, those with intellectual disabilities or cognitive impairments.
[10:35:00]
WHITE: And also those with some serious chronic conditions. And we think this is essentially just a broad overreach and, instead, everyone who
normally has access to intensive care should continue to have that access.
And ventilators and other resources should be given to people according to their likelihood of benefit, all the way down the list until there are no
more ventilators.
GORANI: Right.
And so how would that work?
How do you determine according to how much they could -- a ventilator could benefit a patient? Who makes that determination?
WHITE: Right. Well, so there are a variety of ways to think about this. But what we have advocated is that the two most relevant things are what
are the patient's chances of surviving to hospital discharge and there are a variety of instruments we can use to predict that.
And then also does the patient have an end stage medical condition that makes them very unlikely to survive for more than several years even if
they made it through the COVID infection?
And the idea is that to prioritize those who have the best chance of surviving the hospital discharge and those without life limiting
conditions. And then on down that list for as many patients as we can treat.
GORANI: And would supply -- I imagine -- I'll answer my own question, you can confirm it, how quickly would supplying the extra number of ventilators
needed change this equation, this framework that you've devised?
WHITE: Well, so I think that's what's really important about this framework compared to others. As soon as new ventilators come online,
whether it is an influx from the federal government or from elsewhere, the patients who were lower down on the list would immediately be given those
ventilators in contrast to an approach that says, listen, if you have chronic conditions, you're excluded. And then it wouldn't matter whether
more ventilators came online.
GORANI: Do we have any idea of numbers in a country like the United States, how many more are needed?
I'll be speaking to a company who is saying they could build and deliver new ventilators by April.
Do we have any idea of numbers here?
WHITE: This is one of the hard things about this pandemic is that it is occurring in pockets of the country over time. And so New York right now is
really under the gun and are just at the point of having shortages; whereas other places like Pittsburgh, where I am, we're not at all.
This is going to be a rolling problem overtime from region to region and we don't yet have major shortages across the country. However, in France,
we're just hearing today that they have major shortages.
GORANI: Yes, yes. And obviously this would all change if there is a sudden surge in cases.
This is based on the government estimate of up to 240,000 deaths?
Or is this based on another set of numbers?
WHITE: That's right. There are a variety of predictions that are coming out now and they're all coalescing around this idea that unless we really
aggressively keep with the physical distancing and other public health measures, that the demand for intensive care and ventilators will outstrip
the supply.
GORANI: All right, Dr. Doug White joining us from Pittsburgh, thank you very much for coming on the program on CNN International.
As I mentioned, a space rocket company in California says, well, it can help alleviate some of these issues, some of the shortages Dr. White was
talking about by mass producing ventilators. Virgin Orbit says they can produce bridge ventilators and deploy them early this month.
Bridge ventilators are designed for people who are recovering, freeing up other ventilators for more severe infections. Joining me is Dan Hart, CEO
of Virgin Orbit.
Thank you for being with us.
How many of these bridge ventilators could you manufacture and how quickly?
DAN HART, VIRGIN ORBIT: You know, we're not sure but hundreds, maybe thousands and we could probably bring others in to increase that. It is a
simple design.
GORANI: And when will you know and what are hospitals asking you for?
Have you already received orders?
HART: We have been working very closely with the emergency medical service here in California and Dr. Duncan. And we're receiving requests across the
country and some across the world.
We are very close to -- our final production review will be this weekend and we hope to get into our first batch of units this coming week. And then
we will ramp up quickly from there, once we verify the production line is producing reliable units. We'll replicate that line and then we'll bring
others in to help build it. That's our plan.
[10:40:00]
GORANI: I presume your company has never built and produced ventilators, right?
HART: That's correct. We're a group of engineers and manufacturers who build rocket engines and launch vehicles, launch systems. We have been
watching the news like everyone else has and straining our brains, trying to find something we could do to help.
So we reached out to Governor Newsom's office who connected us with a team of experts, medical experts at UCI Medical and The University of Texas in
Austin. We started collaborating with them.
We then reached out internationally, as we look at what other people were doing and reached out to a group in Spain, producing a very clever unit,
others in the U.K. And we developed our design to be as manufactureable as possible as so we can ramp it up quickly and that's what we intend to do.
GORANI: Do the ventilators, I understand they're the more rudimentary ventilators that would allow severe cases to be -- or more complex
ventilators to be freed up for more severe cases.
But do they need some sort of regulatory approval before they can be used in hospitals or not?
HART: Yes, they do.
GORANI: If so, why not?
HART: They do. They're going to be exposed to people who are ill and so they certainly need to be certified. We have submitted our documentation to
the Food and Drug Administration, we had some really excellent discussions with their leadership. They're engaging and they're going to help us
through the process.
GORANI: Great, to make sure they're obviously meeting these guidelines.
What would the cost be of each one of these ventilators and who would be paying for them?
HART: We're working out the exact price for these right now. It will be at least an order of magnitude, less than the more complex ventilators that
you see, we're really right now driving through the design and manufacturing planning process. And as soon as we get our first lot done,
we'll have a better feel for what it takes it to build them.
GORANI: And who would be paying for them, the hospitals or the state or who?
HART: At this point, most of the states are reaching out, so I assume (INAUDIBLE) the distribution chain would probably be through local
government, maybe state or maybe even federal government.
GORANI: All right, Dan Hart, the CEO of Virgin Orbit, best of luck. I really hope that you're able to get as many of these units out as possible
as quickly as possible. Thanks so much for joining us.
Still to come, Russia -- Russia -- thank you very much -- Russia clarifies who paid for the aid it sent to the United States. The planeload in
question is ahead and here you see this planeload of supplies. We'll be right back with that story.
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[10:45:00]
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GORANI: All right, Russia is clarifying something that is rather important from the perspective of the United States as well, that half of a planeload
of medical equipment that it sent to the U.S. was in fact paid for by the United States.
Previously the Kremlin had called it humanitarian aid, that President Trump had accepted, quote, "with gratitude." Matthew Chance is in London with
more.
So Russia is calling humanitarian aid, a big chunk of equipment, that was in fact paid for. So kind of a bit of a PR exercise here perhaps, Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Within the past couple of hours, I think both sides are sort of playing it for PR purposes,
to be honest, within the past couple of hours, the Kremlin and various other Russian organizations have clarified that actually it was a bit of
both.
Half of the material on board that massive Russian cargo jet that touched down in New York was indeed paid for by the United States, the State
Department said earlier. But the other half was paid for and donated by the Russian state, a form of state aid to the United States from Russia, which,
you know, has all sorts of messages and connotations attached to it, not least that Russia is in a position, which is under sanctions from the
United States, remember, Russia is in a position to reach out a sort of humanitarian hand to its rival in the United States.
GORANI: And what about this situation inside Russia?
Putin is conducting his meetings via video link. The paid nonworking period is extended until the end of April, I understand.
What is the situation there?
Because the numbers are much lower than other countries.
CHANCE: They are much lower but obviously there are questions about the veracity of the numbers and at what point in the sort of trajectory of this
epidemic Russia is currently on.
Certainly there have been lots of questions asked inside Russia about why now, why choose now to donate all this highly important military equipment
-- sorry -- medical equipment, medical, you know, protective gear and things like that, that the Russians clearly need themselves.
It will save American lives, the contents of the cargo plane, it may also have an impact on the lives of Russian citizens and that's become a
political issue inside Russia.
The Kremlin thought that the messaging of this, the symbolism of them sort of projecting their humanitarian aid in this way, was perhaps more
important than sort of making sure their own medical supplies have bolstered at this crucial time for Russia and for other countries around
the world.
GORANI: All right, thanks, Matthew Chance.
Still to come tonight, English football clubs get slammed over how they're rolling out pay among staff during the coronavirus pandemic. We'll have a
live report from London.
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[10:50:00]
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GORANI: Welcome back.
For some leaders this coronavirus pandemic has been an opportunity to expand their grip on power and flirt with all-out authoritarianism. Nic
Robertson has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VIKTOR ORBAN, HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER: (Speaking foreign language).
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Unfolding on national TV, a blatant power grab. Hungary's autocratic prime minister Victor Orban, using COVID-19 as
apparent cover, wins a vote, giving him the power to rule by decree.
No time limit on the sweeping reforms that effectively allow Orban to lock up journalists who criticize him for up to 5 years. Perhaps as shocking,
the European Union's tepid reaction, a page-long written response, not even mentioning Hungary by name.
ERIC MAMER, EUROPEAN COMMISSION SPOKESPERSON: Any emergency measures must be limited to what is necessary and strictly proportionate.
MAMER: They must not last indefinitely.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): All across Europe, police say forces and armies are getting new powers. Interpreting the limits is a hot button issue. In
the U.K., one regional force was criticized for using a drone to film a couple driving to a beauty (ph) spot to walk their dog and then shaming
them by posting it online.
MARTIN HEWITT, NATIONAL POLICE CHIEFS' COUNCIL: There have been some incidents that we would not have wanted to happen before trying to
understand how to work in this very new environment.
ROBERTSON: We are all asking ourselves those same questions, how much freedom to give up, for how long and under whose control?
What Orban is doing in Hungary, however, goes way beyond that debate. Europe's most illiberal democracy has just lurched toward a Russia-style
autocracy.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Since he came to power a decade ago, Orban has been straining against Europe's democratic values, refusing to taken in
migrants during the 2015 crisis; more recently, hollowing out Hungary's judiciary, over time turning the country into a one-party state.
All this, when truth about the coronavirus pandemic is at a premium.
MAMER: Now it is more important than ever that journalists are able to do their job freely and precisely so as to counter disinformation and to
ensure our citizens have access to crucial information.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Orban's timing is perhaps not surprising; only a few weeks ago, Russia's Putin extended his own rule until 2036. As the
world is distracted by the pandemic, both men reaping personal gain -- Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, a lot -- where are we going now?
We are going -- let me know.
Are we going to the football?
We're going to Alex Thomas. OK, here we go. The English Premier League clubs are being accused of having a moral vacuum in the midst of this
pandemic for furloughing nonsports staff while still paying players a ton of money, high salaries during the pandemic. Alex Thomas is live in London.
And we're all familiar, wherever there is a big transfer, even people who don't follow football closely, how much these players are paid. There is
dismay out there that nonsports staff are being punished while the highest paid players are not.
ALEX THOMAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Premier League, one of the few sports leagues outside of the big three professional sports in the USA,
able to afford the multimillion dollar salaries every year.
So moral vacuum, just one of the phrases used to criticize the fact that players are still on full pay while other staff have been furloughed. That
phrase becoming familiar with, especially here in the U.K., under the government's scheme, players -- staff are given 80 percent of their pay,
suspended but not able to take jobs elsewhere up to a maximum monthly limit.
Julian Knight, a U.K. lawmaker, said earlier on Thursday, he's the chair of the U.K.'s digital culture media and sport committee, that we are facing an
obscene situation where top players who aren't working are continuing to see hundreds of thousands of pounds roll in each week while the staff that
keep the cuts going are losing wages.
There are talks ongoing between the footballers' union and top clubs, however. But at the moment, no U.K.-based stars are offering to cut their
pay.
GORANI: And is it different to other leagues?
THOMAS: Yes, absolutely. We have seen clubs like Barcelona, equally world famous as English clubs like Manchester United, Liverpool or Chelsea, take
a 70 percent reduction in pay.
[10:55:00]
THOMAS: In Germany's Bundesliga, the reigning champions there, Bayern Munich as well, they have taken a 20 percent salary cut. Juventus, the
Italian football champions, all their stars have agreed to furlough their pay for four months. That will save that club $99 million.
And the crucial thing is that overall English football, not just the Premier League, the other divisions, too, are facing a loss of almost $1
billion, particularly because of a lack of TV revenue. TV companies aren't going to pay when there are no games going on and they're trying to get the
games finished when the coronavirus pandemic dies down.
In Belgium, they're first pro football league in Europe to cancel their league, declare Club Bruges as champions. Here in England, Liverpool are
runaway leaders but we don't know if they'll be able to complete the season and claim the title for the first time in 30 years.
GORANI: Alex Thomas, thank you very much.
I don't know how Alex is dealing with this lockdown and the pandemic. I'm doing a lot of eating.
Well, we found some folks, though, who are doing a lot of singing. It is certainly less fattening. Here is Anna Stewart.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
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ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One family in the U.K. vented their isolation frustrations with an adaptation of a "Les Miserables" song --
online shopping delays, canceled football, not enough phone data and missing their grandparents.
While much of the world is staying at home, penguins all over the world are having a field day. And Eva Humboldt innocent Andrew's (ph) aquarium, at
his meerkat neighbors falling in the waddle of Wellington the rock hopper in Chicago and Jasmine in Cape Town. Some very happy feet.
And Earth in Springfield, Missouri, is keeping spirits up on TikTok. With the help of Mercy Hospital's finest backup dancers and they have some
advice. Conspiracy, she says, don't touch this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right, well, some good stuff there for you. You always see it in times of crisis.
Thanks very much for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. We're going to take a quick break on CNN. More news ahead. Stay with us.
END
