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Trump Claims Total Power in Coronavirus Fight; Italy to Allow Some Activities to Resume; England's Death Toll Higher than Updates Suggest; Russia Uses App to Track Movement under Lockdown; U.K. Elderly Treated Unfairly during Outbreak; France Projects Dire Economic Impact; WHO Warns Sweden Must Do More; Working from Home; Deer Explore a Paris Suburb's Empty Streets. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired April 14, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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HALA GORANI, CNN HOST (voice-over): Welcome, everybody. I'm Hala Gorani. We continue our coverage of the coronavirus pandemic around the world. And
we start in the United States.
Donald Trump claimed total power to open the U.S. economy. How doctors and state governors are reacting.
Also, Italy allows a few shops to open. Those cautious steps come as we get a glimpse of Europe's lockdown exit strategy.
And is the United Kingdom doing enough to fight the coronavirus?
A new report reveals a death toll sharply higher than previously thought. We will go around the world for you this hour to find out how various
countries are locking down or looking to open up.
GORANI: We start in the United States. Defiant, divisive, misleading and insisting he has presidential powers that do not exist in the U.S.
Constitution, all part of Donald Trump's unhinged coronavirus press briefing on Monday.
Joe Johns has more on the president's push for total authority to end the lockdowns and reopen the U.S. economy and the pushback from governors.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump used Monday's White House Coronavirus Task Force briefing as a stage
to air his grievances.
TRUMP: Everything we did was right. January 17, no cases. No cases. No deaths. I'm supposed to close up the United States of America when I have
no cases?
The president of the United States calls the shots.
JOHNS: Trump lashing out at examples of his downplaying of warnings from top health officials about the dangers of a possible pandemic.
PAULA REID, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: What did you do with the time that you bought?
TRUMP: You know what we did?
REID: The month of February.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You know what we did?
REID: -- the gap.
TRUMP: What do you do --
REID: What did you do in the month of February?
TRUMP: -- what do you do when you have no cases in the whole United States --
REID: You had cases.
TRUMP: You -- excuse me. You reported it, zero cases, zero deaths on January 17th.
REID: January. But the entire month of February --
TRUMP: I said in January.
JOHNS: The president also calling up Dr. Anthony Fauci, who publicly walked back his Sunday comments that there was pushback from the Trump
administration about calls to begin early mitigation efforts.
FAUCI: It was a poor choice of words. There wasn't anybody saying, no, you shouldn't do that.
JOHNS: Meantime Andrew Cuomo and six other East Coast state leaders teaming up, pledging to create coordinated plans before lifting stay- at-
home orders and reopening establishments like businesses and schools, while limiting the threat of new outbreaks.
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): This is a time for smart, competent, effective government. Nothing else matters.
JOHNS: And on the West Coast, California, Oregon and Washington's governors following suit. Trump says he actually holds the key to unlocking
society.
TRUMP: When somebody's the president of the United States, the authority is total. And that's the way it's got to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Total?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your authority's total?
TRUMP: It's total. And the governors know that. The governors know that.
JOHNS: But just last month he refused any accountability for the administration's failure to get more testing done.
TRUMP: No, I don't take responsibility at all, because we were given a -- a set of circumstances and we were given rules, regulations and
specifications from a different time. Wasn't meant for this kind of an event.
JOHNS: In reality, the president never issued a nationwide shelter-in- place order, leaving it up to states to decide when to institute measures
like social distancing and when to end them.
CUOMO: I don't agree with the president's legal analysis. The president doesn't have total authority. We have a Constitution. We don't have a king.
We have an elected president. And the Constitution clearly says the powers that are not specifically listed for the federal government are reserved to
the states.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Joe Johns reporting there.
And Andrew Cuomo was back on CNN just a few hours ago. He was asked about what the president said about having total authority to reopen the economy.
And Andrew Cuomo insisted, the governor of New York, he will not follow any presidential order to reopen his state if lives are at stake. Here's what
Cuomo had to say.
[10:05:00]
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CUOMO: If you move too quickly and not smartly, you will see the numbers go right back up again and you'll have to do another lockdown. We're
watching other countries, Alisyn, that are going through this. And they have shown that, when you move too precipitously, you create an issue and
then you have to go right back to square one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Andrew Cuomo speaking to Alisyn Camerota.
Athena Jones is in New York with more.
Athena, how is it looking on the lockdown and the latest numbers of deaths and cases in New York, which is so hard hit in the U.S.?
ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Hala, you're right; New York is the epicenter of this crisis, nearing 200,000 cases and topping 10,000
deaths in the state of New York, which is really a staggering number when you consider this has only been going on for a matter of weeks.
But there is some good news. Governor Cuomo has been hinting at this and talking about this for the last several days. But with each day's new data
that comes in, you see the curve is flattening, leveling off. He describes it as a plateau, which means that things are still at a high level, seeing
more people, hundreds of people die on a daily basis. Total hospitalizations are still high but stable.
That is why you see at the convention center behind me, the Javits Center has 2,500 beds open to treat COVID patients. Only 300 are occupied. That
gives you the sense of the idea that things didn't get as bad in terms of capacity as was projected.
And that is because people have been following social distancing guidelines. Governor Cuomo saying the worst is over, if we continue to be
smart. So he is working with a seven state task force, a bipartisan task force, of governors, of states, going from Massachusetts to Delaware to
talk about a phased gradual reopening of their economies.
Now this is not all going to happen next week or the following week. This could still be weeks away. The idea is to do this in a coordinated way. One
example of the fact that these states are experiencing the crisis in different ways and different peaks, we heard from Governor Ned Lamont this
morning, he won't be ready to start talking about reopening schools and businesses and the like until at least May 20th.
So the whole idea here though is that it is up to the governors, not to the president, despite what he says, and they're going to make sure they put
public health strategy over the economy. They've got to work together, public health strategy and economic strategy that work together.
GORANI: All right, Athena Jones in New York, thanks very much.
We'll be talking to, by the way, a constitutional scholar and professor about Donald Trump's statements and about that eyebrow-raising press
briefing yesterday.
Let's talk about Europe now, where we're broadcasting from. The European Union has put down on paper its exit strategy from the coronavirus
lockdown. CNN obtained a copy of the plan, which urges E.U. member states to coordinate when they decide to lift restrictions.
The document also suggests gradual one month gap between steps, because, quote, "their effect can only be measured over time."
The E.U. says the lifting of measures should start at the local level and be gradually extended geographically. One example of that is in Italy,
where some shops and businesses are allowed to reopen; however, the hardest hit areas are holding off on easing lockdown measures. Let's go to Ben
Wedeman, coming to us live from Rome.
So Italy very, very hard hit by this pandemic. They are starting to take some very initial steps, timid steps to reopen the economy.
How is it going so far?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you look at the kinds of shops that are being allowed to reopen, it is pretty limited.
You're talking about stationery shops. Bookshops here, for instance, in Rome, won't be open until the 20th of April.
Stores selling children's clothing and baby clothing but they're only allowing one customer in at a time and they're being told they must
provide, for instance, hand sanitizers.
We were at a baby clothing shop this afternoon and the owner told us that nobody actually had come in to buy anything. So it is very limited.
And really the impact -- I think this is really an experimental phase to see if -- with these limited openings whether the numbers, which are
starting to go down but rather slowly, compared to China.
And yesterday, of course, we did have another rather grim milestone in Italy. The death toll for the country passed 20,000. As you mentioned, for
instance, in Lombardy, where Milan is, the hardest hit part of the country.
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WEDEMAN: They said no, we are not going to follow the government guidelines as far as the opening up of the country goes there. The
shutdown, which has been in place for now more than a month, is going to continue unchanged until at least the 3rd of May because the lockdown has
been extended until then -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes. So we're starting to see the E.U. response take shape here. But I wonder how it can work, really, because, even within Italy, different
regions are saying they're going to open up on different timetables, based on how badly they were hit by the pandemic.
How does the E.U. plan on becoming some sort of central authority on when the region as a whole should open up?
WEDEMAN: It is a very good question because there is profound resentment in Italy towards the E.U. and its attitude towards Italy, which, of course,
has suffered the second largest death toll on Earth from the virus.
And many people feel that particularly the Germans and the Dutch were slow in responding, were resistant to Italy's appeals for help when the crisis
was at its worst. And therefore it does appear -- I mean, we heard Giuseppe Conte, the Italian prime minister, saying that this is a profound test for
the E.U.
And many Italians at this point would say that the E.U. has not received passing marks in terms of solidarity during this crisis. And as far as
Italy is concerned, as I said, individual regions of the country are basically saying regardless of what the central government says, we are
going to determine for ourselves when to reopen.
So if individual regions aren't agreeing on it, it is hard to see how the E.U. as a whole is going to come together on a strategy for getting the
area, the region back on its feet -- Hala.
GORANI: It's going to be interesting to see. The E.U. has been criticized, individual countries, as you mentioned, Ben, criticized for not necessarily
demonstrating the kind of solidarity perhaps that some believe that they should have.
We'll see what that does, really, to the E.U. sense of unity this whole pandemic, and this crisis as it reshapes so much of our lives. Ben Wedeman,
thank you very much.
When all is said and done, we're going to be looking back at this time and trying to figure out whether the response was the proper response. We're
also going to be grieving for all the people who lost their lives.
And when all is said and done, we're going to be coming up with the accurate, proper long-term numbers, because, right now, they are still
taking shape. For instance, here in the U.K., there is some disturbing information coming out that many medical workers have been infected with
COVID-19 that we weren't aware of in the past, according to new data.
A third of NHS staff and key workers who have been tested have returned to positive results. It comes as the government is under intense pressure to
ramp up testing for NHS workers and their families.
As I mentioned, regarding the death toll, officials say the coronavirus toll is much higher than the daily updates suggest because people who have
passed away in care homes and homes for the elderly weren't accounted for in the official daily tolls.
Our chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, joins me now live with more on those numbers; 15 percent higher than the National Health
Service numbers is the total death toll for the U.K.
That's a staggering increase.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it really is. And we're talking about more than 50 percent, Hala. If you look at the
government daily briefings, in which they give the death tolls, they are now saying that those death tolls are some 52 percent lower than the actual
death toll.
That is really just a staggering number. This is coming from the Office of National Statistics, the ONS, who put out a bunch of data, looking at the
numbers up to the period of April 3rd. The number that they came up with, total number of people killed by COVID-19 in England and in Wales, was
6,235.
The number, however, given by the U.K. government in its daily briefing was 4,093, more than 2,000 people discrepancy. And the reason for that
discrepancy, as you mentioned, is partly because, you know, the daily briefings are very fast; they're every day. So they don't have all the
information at their fingertips.
[10:15:00]
WARD: But primarily because they are only counting people who have died in hospitals. They are not accounting for all the people who have died in
nursing homes, in care homes, in residential homes. And as we now know and we're seeing across the world, Hala, nursing homes are a major source of
vulnerability for COVID-19.
The NHS head, Chris Witty, just yesterday saying in his briefing that, in the past 24 hours or in the previous 24 hours, more than 90 nursing homes
in the U.K. had been infected with the coronavirus.
So this is going to be a very sobering and, frankly, a little bit alarming piece of news for many people here in the U.K. to sort of take on board.
And it comes at this moment, where we have just heard from one of the top advisers to the U.K. government on COVID-19 that, despite the government's
best intentions here, it could well be that the U.K. is one of the worst, if not the worst, affected countries by coronavirus in the E.U., Hala.
GORANI: All right and we expect this lockdown to be extended as well. We'll see how -- yes, Clarissa Ward, thank you very much.
Enforcing the lockdown in Russia's capital city, is it a cyber gulag or a way to keep coronavirus at bay?
We'll have a live report.
But can you curb the coronavirus without a lockdown?
That's the plan in Sweden.
But is it working?
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GORANI: Well, here's how Russia is trying to deal with this coronavirus pandemic. It is using an app to track if people are following the rules of
lockdown.
Starting tomorrow, people in Moscow will have a unique QR code to show the police they will be fined if they don't have the right permit. Matthew
Chance is joining me from London, he's normally based in Moscow.
Some concerns there about what the government might do with these tracking applications after the pandemic is over, Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think there is, yes. And in fact, it is a balance and a concern that we have seen not just
in Russia but other countries as well, using technological solutions to keep a tab on people with the coronavirus infection, to, you know, they
say, to protect the rest of the population from being infected.
A balance between public health concerns and the right to people's privacy. I think the concern in Russia, though, is that, in a country where there is
such a high degree of authoritarianism already, giving the government all that information about individuals, what their routines are, where they
plan to go.
[10:20:00]
CHANCE: The personal information you have to sort of put onto the computer, in order to get that QR code, in order to make a simple journey.
And some people will have to do this every day.
Given that kind of data is, you know, potentially, you know, very concerning indeed and you've heard some critics of the Kremlin call it a --
the makings of a cyber gulag being created at the moment.
I think the other point is raises, though, and this is probably much more immediate, is that the situation in Russia is, you know, escalating very
dramatically. It was just a couple of weeks ago that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, came out on state television saying it is all under
control, we're not going to have the same problem essentially being experienced in the West at that time.
But that's not turned out to be the case at all. In the past 24 hours, Russia had its highest ever number of people who are confirmed with the
virus, 2,774 people. Russian officials have made it clear that not only are they not at the peak of infections at this point but they're much closer to
the foot of the curve than they are to the peak.
So the already pretty bad figures in Russia, though not as bad as some countries, particularly in the United States and the West, that are
suffering very badly with this COVID-19 outbreak, the situation in Russia is likely to get much, much worse before it gets any better.
GORANI: All right, Matthew Chance, thank you very much.
My next guest says it is the elderly in the U.K. who are most vulnerable during this pandemic. We were discussing with Clarissa Ward the fact that
the number of dead was underestimated because the daily totals did not take into account deaths and care and elderly homes. Former pensions minister
Baroness Ros Altmann joins me from London.
You have said the vulnerable are abandoned like lambs to the slaughter.
What did you mean by that?
BARONESS ROS ALTMANN, FORMER PENSIONS MINISTER: Well, Hala, this is what people who are in care homes have been saying to me. That, you know, that
those working in care homes or trying to run care homes feel like the residents are just being overlooked.
And in many cases sadly are starting to die because they have caught the virus, because they didn't have testing in the homes and somebody else in
the home will have had it. Also the staff haven't got the right protective equipment and themselves haven't been tested.
So what they're saying is we feel like we have been left to die and, in a way, I'm sure that may be what it feels like. But it is definitely not the
intention of, you know, any government.
So what we need to do is highlight the issue and get the right help to these care home settings, which are so vulnerable, you know. The average
age in the care home is 85 years. So these people are the most vulnerable group here.
GORANI: And there are claims that some doctors are not even recording COVID as a cause of death, so that the death toll in care and elderly homes
might be even higher.
ALTMANN: This is one of the other real problems we have, which is that, if somebody is dying in a care home and never has been tested, they may die
from the virus but nobody would know. Many doctors are no longer actually physically going into homes; they're diagnosing over the phone or over
Skype.
And, of course, that means that they haven't actually seen the person or tested the person. So it is likely that the numbers of people who are dying
of this illness in care homes has not yet been properly recorded. Sometimes it is because the returns are in late.
But unfortunately there seems to be a very worrying uptick in the numbers who have recorded deaths in care homes, in the most recent figures released
this morning. And that may be the canary in the coal mine, heralding what is coming next.
Because a lot of the people may have caught this virus over the last few weeks, when it was spreading so widely elsewhere. And even though visitors
have been banned for some time in care homes, the last three weeks or so, in most cases, the staff have often been going in and out and not having
the right protective equipment.
And in some cases elderly people have been sent to hospital from a care home, may have the virus but are then sent back to the care home. And the
care home has to take them. So we really do have a lack of coordination and control, which is part of the problem when you have this sudden epidemic
that nobody was planning for and hasn't been prepared for.
[10:25:00]
ALTMANN: But we really do have to make sure that we get proper coordination between social care and the hospital care, health care, that
we have much better focus on at the moment.
GORANI: And this virus is particularly cruel because, you know, these elderly people can't have visitors. When they do pass away, they pass away
without family around them. The heartbreak for the -- obviously the elderly residents of these homes but also their family members.
I can't imagine what it would be like not to be able to be there, to comfort my dying loved one. I mean, this is such a tragedy on so many
levels.
How do you address that aspect of things?
ALTMANN: Well, this is a tragedy of enormous proportions in various directions. It is the same, unfortunately, also for people in hospital,
when they're dying alone.
A friend of mine's father passed away with coronavirus; there was nobody able -- no family member able to be with him.
And in care homes, we shouldn't forget the staff, who are not used to dealing with this kind of thing and, in an ordinary care home, very often,
if a patient does sadly die and, of course, that does happen with the elderly in homes, their families are usually around them. Doctors will be
coming in and they will have their care managed at the end of their life.
But in many cases because systems have been overwhelmed, all these care homes are not part of the national network, as the NHS might be. Then there
isn't enough awareness sometimes of what is actually going on behind these closed doors.
And we need urgently to wake up to what is happening and look after these people much, much better and look after these staff as well.
GORANI: Yes. The staff definitely needs the protective equipment. They're putting themselves at risk, they're not paid very well oftentimes and
they're doing selfless work under very different conditions. Baroness Ros Altmann thanks so much for joining us on CNN and going through this.
Not just in the U.K., we're talking about the U.K. here but obviously issues concerning the elderly are issues that need to be addressed all over
the world.
Ahead on the show, U.S. president Donald Trump accused of being unhinged at this latest coronavirus briefing. The heated exchanges and false claims
from the podium. We'll have that next.
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[10:30:00]
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GORANI: Welcome back.
Spain is recording its first drop in active cases since the pandemic began. That number is falling by almost 300 cases, just as the country begins to
loosen lockdown restrictions. There was a small jump in daily deaths; 567 people have died in the last 24 hours, 50 more than the day before. But
Spain is the first European hot spot to record a decline in active cases so far.
As far as France is concerned, the president, Emmanuel Macron, is extending the country's lockdown for another four weeks. It is now set to end May
11th. The French finance minister is warning of dire consequences for the economy. He initially projected a 6 percent drop in GDP but now he's saying
this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNO LE MAIRE, FRENCH FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): The first consequence is that the confinement will be longer than what could be
expected to help security reasons. And it was a decision made by the president.
But clearly there will be a bigger impact on our national growth. (INAUDIBLE). We had earlier forecast growth of negative 6 percent. We will
have a growth forecast of negative 8 percent in the updated budget law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, India is considering relaxing lockdown measures in parts of the country with low levels of COVID-19 cases. So it is geographically
different, depending on where you are in India.
Earlier the Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, said while the nationwide lockdown is being extended to May 3rd, areas that are at low risk of
becoming a hot spot will be allowed to open up for certain activities.
India has reported more than 10,000 coronavirus cases and more than 300 deaths. Now though India and much of Europe are still very much on
lockdown, Sweden has done the opposite in its approach to the pandemic.
Streets are bustling, restaurants are open, trains and buses are still running. But critics fear Sweden's decision will backfire eventually, as
Phil Black explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In these strange times, this is a strange sight, people just hanging out in bars and cafes, enjoying the
sunny Easter weekend with friends and family. The coronavirus hasn't skipped Sweden. They're just dealing with it very differently, no forced
closures, no lockdown.
Some, including President Trump, think the country is betting everything on that controversial theory, herd immunity, deliberately allowing the disease
to move through the population, so younger people with antibodies surround and protect the elderly and more vulnerable.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sweden did that, the herd. They call it the herd. Sweden suffering very, very badly.
BLACK: Absolutely not true, says the Swedish government.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our goal is the same as in most other countries. We want to save lives. We want to hinder the spreading of the virus.
BLACK: Swedish health officials say their approach is designed to slow the virus where it spreads most. And they don't think that's in bars and
restaurants.
ANDERS TEGNELL, CHIEF STATE EPIDEMIOLOGIST, SWEDEN: Not convinced that lockdowns and these kind of things work very well.
BLACK: Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, says their strategy's focus is asking everyone to avoid travel, work from home where
possible and isolate if you feel unwell.
And he says it's worked, flattening the curve, keeping critical cases within the capacity of the health system.
TEGNELL: I think one of the strong reasons for why we have been doing what we're doing in Sweden is that we feel that this is very sustainable. We can
keep on doing this for long -- for months then, without any real harm to society.
BLACK: But the numbers tell a different story. For a small country, Sweden has suffered a relatively high number of deaths, now at 919.
The deaths per 100,000 people stands at 8.83, higher than that of the United States at 6.73, but still far less than Italy at nearly 33. And
there's one especially disturbing trend in Sweden's experience so far.
Health officials say around half the total figure killed lived in homes for the elderly. The World Health Organization says it's imperative Sweden must
do more. And 2,000 Swedish scientists have signed a petition, because they fear current policies will mean many more deaths.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our authorities think they are in control. But what we are saying is that the catastrophe is looming around the corner, so
you're not in control in two, three weeks' time.
[10:35:00]
BLACK: Critics say Sweden is now trapped in a high-risk experiment. Swedish officials believe they have found the right balance. Either way, in
the coming months, Sweden will have much to teach the world about how to best manage COVID-19 -- Phil Black, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, the Trump administration is citing an influential virus model as the basis for coronavirus measures. The model shows transmission
already reducing in the United States.
The author of the model told our Anderson Cooper that the spread of coronavirus could be completely stopped there in the next few months. If
you're curious about how that might work, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CHRISTOPHER MURRAY, VIRUS MODEL CREATOR: All we absolutely know for sure is that social distancing measures work. It leads to a situation where
every case is infecting less than one other case. And that means if you keep the course, you'll get transmission essentially down to zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, well, our medical -- our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is live in Atlanta.
How would that work?
I presume you would also need to couple lockdown measures with testing, right, with widespread testing.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. That's sort of the -- that would be the secret sauce. You could do social distancing as much
as possible but also testing as much as possible so you catch who is infected.
And then on the other side, this gets confusing because we're talking about two different tests, but doing antibody tests to see who has recovered and
maybe immune because they developed antibodies.
The third component of this, Hala, is something called contact tracing. So if person A gets COVID, you say to the person, who your spouse, who is your
family, who have you been in contact with during such and such a time period and you tell persons B, C, D, E, et cetera, you need to stay at
home, really need to isolate yourself in a room and not get other people sick.
You might be fine but you might be infected. But we need to watch you for 14 days to make sure that you are also not infected. That is -- those are
the three things you can do at this point.
GORANI: And where are we on a vaccine?
I think the world will be breathing the biggest sigh of relief if we finally have some visibility on that. That's when we'll start feeling safe
to go out, once we feel that we can vaccinate ourselves, our kids, the elderly, against this vicious disease.
COHEN: You're right, Hala. That will be the moment we can breathe a sigh of relief. But that moment is not going to come for quite a while. Federal
officials said 1-1.5 years at least. And when I talked to vaccine experts, they're, like, yes, pay attention to the at least part.
Vaccines take years to develop, even five years may be too conservative, it could take longer. So we don't have a crystal ball, we don't know. But I
think it is safe to say it is at least 18 months away and possibly even more.
GORANI: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.
To Washington now, even by Donald Trump's standards, the latest coronavirus briefing was, should we call it, combative?
He repeatedly accused the media of dishonesty. And the White House even played a montage of TV and radio clips from that time. A CBS reporter
pressed Donald Trump on what his administration was doing during the entire month of February.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REID: The argument is that you bought yourself some time, you didn't need to prepare hospitals, you didn't use it to ramp up testing. Right now -- 20
million people are unemployed.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: It is so disgraceful the way you say that. Let me just -- listen, I just went over it.
REID: -- supposed to make people --
TRUMP: I just went over it.
REID: -- in an unprecedented crisis.
TRUMP: Nobody thought we should do it. And when I did it --
REID: But what did you do with the time that you bought?
TRUMP: You know what we did?
REID: The month of February.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You know what we did?
REID: -- the gap.
TRUMP: What do you do --
REID: What did you do in the month of February?
TRUMP: -- what do you do when you have no cases in the whole United States --
REID: You had cases.
TRUMP: You -- excuse me. You reported it, zero cases, zero deaths on January 17th.
REID: January. But the entire month of February --
TRUMP: I said in January.
REID: You have a complete gap.
TRUMP: On January --
REID: What did your administration do in February with the time that your travel ban bought you?
TRUMP: A lot. A lot.
REID: What?
TRUMP: And in fact, we'll give you a list. What we did, in fact, part of it was up there, we did a lot.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Look, look. You know you're a fake. You know that, your whole network, the way you cover it, is fake.
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GORANI: The president also falsely claimed he has total power over states' coronavirus restrictions. Kaitlan Collins asked him about that.
[10:40:00]
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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Quick question on something you just said. You said when someone is President of the United
States, their authority is total. That is not true.
Who told you that?
TRUMP: You know what we're going to do?
We're going to write up papers on this. It is not going to be necessary. Because the governors need us, one way or the other, because ultimately it
comes with the federal government. That being said, we're getting along very well with the governors. And I feel very certain that there won't be a
problem.
Yes, please, go ahead.
COLLINS: Has any governor agreed that you have the authority to decide when their states --
TRUMP: I haven't asked anybody. You know why? Because I don't have to. Go ahead, please.
COLLINS: Who told you the president has the total authority?
TRUMP: Enough.
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GORANI: Joining me now is the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, Larry Sabato.
For our viewers around the world, Larry, does the president have total power over the states in a scenario, in a national emergency, a national
crisis scenario like the coronavirus pandemic?
LARRY SABATO, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Absolutely not. That's not the American system. That's not what the Constitution says and suggests. And it
isn't what the background papers, he kept talking about papers, say, the debates in the constitutional convention.
There is plenty of evidence what federalism is in this particular case with an emergency, in a generous interpretation, Hala, the federal government
should work with the states and the states' governors in order to resolve these questions.
States may be empowered by the Constitution to take completely independent actions, independent of the White House. Any constitutional scholar worth
his or her salt will tell you that.
GORANI: And the vice president of the United States is defending Donald Trump's assertion. This is what he told reporters in the Briefing Room.
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MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Make no mistake about it, the long history of this country, the authority of the president of the
United States during national emergencies is unquestionably plenary. And you can look back through times of war and other national emergencies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: What do you make of what Mike Pence had to say?
SABATO: I make of it this: of all of our modern vice presidents -- yes, they're all supplicants in a sense of the president -- this vice president
is a sycophant. And if you watch his statements, even at these press conferences, you can see that.
He is just as wrong as Donald Trump. He used different terminology. But a president does not have all the power. If only they would study the rest of
the Constitution, not just the executive clause.
GORANI: He also aired at the beginning of the briefing, the president of the United States, sort of a propaganda video, that you told my producers
should be paid by his re-election campaign.
Why did you say that?
SABATO: This was not an effort to inform the American public. It was an effort to do what Donald Trump always does, make everything about himself,
how am I doing, how does -- how do the people view my actions? I did a great job. I made no mistakes. There were no errors whatsoever.
That was a propaganda film and it was shocking to people who are used to press conferences in the White House. That is not what is done and that was
a propaganda political film for his re-election campaign that taxpayers should not pay for. Perhaps they didn't. I don't know. But it would be an
outrage if public monies were used.
GORANI: What do you make of Donald Trump's -- I mean, these press briefings, these coronavirus briefings are becoming longer and longer. I
think yesterday's was 2.5 hours, there was the video, there was the combative exchanges with reporters, insults flying.
I mean, what adjective would you use to describe what we're witnessing every day from the White House?
SABATO: You're very kind to use the word combative. I would use the word unhinged, unhinged even by Donald Trump's standards, just outrageous,
unprecedented. Presidents sometimes get mad at the press. But Donald Trump is consistently angry because he has no tolerance for any criticism.
GORANI: And Anthony Fauci, the leading infectious disease authority in the United States, was asked if he had voluntarily walked back statements that
he made, that he was facing pushback from the White House.
Did that surprise you, the fact that Anthony Fauci then kind of walked back those statements that he made on CNN and that were the subject of a report
in "The New York Times" as well?
[10:45:00]
SABATO: Well, certainly, a lot of us were disappointed because he has been one of the few people willing to stand up to the president in his presence,
in the president's presence, to tell him the truth whether he wants to hear it or not.
But Fauci is a survivor, Hala. He's a survivor. And he knows sometimes a retreat is necessary and it was a partial retreat.
GORANI: So what do you think this pandemic is going -- politically speaking, the president's approval ratings initially were quite high. There
was a Gallup poll putting his approval numbers at 60 percent in terms of how he's managing the pandemic. Those are down. But they're still above 40
percent.
The president's base just is sticking by the -- Donald Trump, regardless of what happens, regardless of anything that happens in briefings, regardless
of any other impact and death toll from the pandemic.
How do you assess how this -- what impact this is having politically?
SABATO: Politically it is having no impact at all, which is incredible when you think about it. Now that the bump, the little rally around the
president has disappeared, Trump is right back where he has been, low to mid-40s.
Of course, he got 46 percent of the vote. Nothing has changed. Now look, there is one thing that might change. It is the only thing I can think of,
which is a significant economic decline.
The president has promised repeatedly that we're going to bounce right back, people won't believe the figures in the next quarter. That's right
before the election.
Well, he'd better hope for that, because I think if the economy really does shrink as much as some economists are predicting, there would be a
political reaction on Election Day in November.
GORANI: All right, Larry Sabato, thank you very much, pleasure talking to you. Stay safe.
We'll take a quick break.
How is working from home changing us all?
I'm working from home, my kitchen, to be exact.
Is this going to have a lasting impact on how, you know, we all work and how the world operates?
We're going to be asking a lifestyle specialist about that after this.
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GORANI: All right, welcome back. Let us -- getting my bearings here -- let's talk about the new normal, everybody. And the new normal is a lot of
us are working from home. It has been a painful time for others who have lost their jobs as well. So I just wanted to acknowledge that or who have
been furloughed.
[10:50:00]
GORANI: Others are having to really adapt to a new environment, to a new way of working, of trying to focus at home, especially if you have kids or
if you're taking care of family members who are more vulnerable. This could be a very challenging time.
Brigid Schulte is the director of the Better Life Lab at the New America think tank. She's been studying the changes in how we work. She joins me
now live.
I hope I pronounced your surname correctly, Brigid.
BRIGID SCHULTE, DIRECTOR, BETTER LIFE LAB: That's right. Brigid Schulte, live from my home office.
GORANI: Perfect. Live from my home office as well. Let's talk about how this may change things longer term.
What impact will it have on how businesses operate?
The fact that we've all pretty much been able to adapt in a very short period of time to do our jobs from home.
SCHULTE: Yes, I think that this is a major opportunity for a reset because I think what it is really showing is how broken so many of our systems
were.
When you look at how we work and live, you know, there is so much work-life conflict and work-life stress and there's so much -- before the pandemic,
this expectation that the best workers would work all the time and that you had to work as if you didn't have caregiving responsibility.
And then you had the expectation that if you were -- if you had caregiving responsibilities, you had to be this super-duper caregiver, super parent,
super daughter or son taking care of your elderly parent.
The expectations were so high and really impossible. And what this is really showing is that, you know, those boundaries are blurred between work
and life and that you can do good work and also have a life and care responsibilities. I think whatever this new normal is going to be, it is
not going to be like this.
I think the other thing that this is showing is how critical having a really excellent, high quality child care system is and that's gone right
now for so many people. So I think it is showing a new way that is really - - the way that people have been living and working already, that we need to basically strip the mask away and really think about work and life.
GORANI: But there are many challenges, right, you need to be able to focus to do a good job, if you have kids running around or other responsibilities
at home you might not be able to really -- that's at least the criticism that, you know, that people could sort of say, well, if you're at home,
you're not fully committed and fully focused in on the job.
How do you respond to that?
SCHULTE: Well, I think we need to be thinking about this particular period of time, which is an emergency. And when we get back to whatever the new
normal is going to be, new normal schools will be open at some point.
New normal child care centers will be open again. New normal elder care centers will be open again. So in new normal you can have remote and
flexible work. And you won't be having quite so many distractions at home.
Right now everybody is trying to do everything all at once. And you mentioned people who are furloughed, that's an additional stress and hourly
workers who can't work remotely.
So I think what we have to recognize is that we're in a pandemic situation now. This is not normal. We're just trying to get through and cope. But it
gives us an opportunity to say, whatever the new normal is, it can be different than what the old status quo was.
GORANI: Also, I mean, one of most stressful things about going into the office is the commute. It is bad for the environment, it's bad for your
mental health. You spend hours a day going to work and coming home. If you could limit that, that's also potentially another positive.
SCHULTE: I think the other thing to remember is that remote and flexible work and many work environments, in knowledge work environments, it was
introduced when women and mothers entered the workforce. So it always has been seen with this stigma, that it was for caregivers or for mothers.
I think what this pandemic is showing is that we need to rethink that. We need to think about it very differently and really embrace remote and
flexible work for everyone. But it is not just somebody siloed and not just somebody going to be sidetracked but you can still advance and do excellent
work in a very different way.
GORANI: Yes. Thanks very much, Brigid Schulte, for joining us, the director of the Better Life Lab at the New America think tank. Thanks.
We'll be right back on CNN.
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[10:55:00]
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GORANI (voice-over): Well, there you hear it, a dirge of sorts just for beer fans. A pub in England had to pour 60 gallons of beer down the drain.
Like many bars, Norwich's Murderous Pub has been closed due to the coronavirus. So the suds just sat there going bad.
The ale he stocks has a shelf life of only about a week. So down the drain it went. Sorry about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Some in France are simply refusing to obey lockdown measures. Two deer said no. (Speaking French). They made their way into the empty streets
of the Paris suburb. The lack of human presence has given wildlife a chance to explore our urban landscapes, so unusual scenes like these are playing
out.
Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN. There's a lot more ahead.
END
