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Trump Issues Reopening Guidelines; Number of Dead in Wuhan Revised Upwards; Macron's Warning to Europe. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired April 17, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani.
Welcome to our special pandemic coverage this hour.
[10:00:04]
And we start in the United States. "It is up to you," that is Donald Trump's message to governors, as he sets out guidelines for reopening the
country. I'll be speaking this hour to the governor of Connecticut.
Also, the number of dead in Wuhan, the original epicenter of this entire outbreak, has been revised upwards, significantly, by 50 percent. We'll
tell you why.
And in France, Emmanuel Macron is warning the European Union this crisis could be an existential moment of truth.
We're live in France.
(MUSIC)
And we start with Donald Trump's plan. You'll remember initially, the president of the United States claimed that he had complete authority to
tell the states what to do. He has now shifted that responsibility to the governors and he has unveiled a three-pronged plan for reopening the U.S.
economy. The key takeaway of all of this from the U.S. president, just days after as I mentioned claiming he has total authority to reopen the country,
the president now says it is up to local officials.
Athena Jones brings us up to date.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump revealing the White House's new guidelines for opening up America again. With no
start date, his three-step plan outlines an effort to gradually restart the economy, beginning in areas least affected by the coronavirus pandemic.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We took the greatest economy in the history of the world and we closed it in order to win this war and
we're in the process of winning it now. We are not opening all at once, but one careful step at a time.
JONES: In phase one, a soft reopening of parts of the United States. For example, while the vulnerable still shelter in place, working from home
will still be encouraged, but some Americans can slowly begin to go back to their offices, and businesses like restaurants and gyms could open using
strict safety measures, but no large gatherings.
Phase two will relax some social distancing efforts like opening schools, and allowing elective surgeries and nonessential travel again.
For phase three, normal life resumes as much as possible. No staffing restrictions at work, and big sporting and entertainment venues will be
back in business again with limited restrictions. Those most vulnerable asked to still practice social distancing while they're in public spaces.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: Not every state, not every region will do it at the same time.
Sooner or later, we will get to the point, hopefully sooner, with safety as the most important thing, to a point where we can get become to some form
of normality.
JONES: But before states begin the path to lifting restriction restrictions, the guidelines suggest they have a decrease of coronavirus
cases across a two-week period, a return of pre-crisis hospital conditions, and an adequate supply of personal protective equipment for healthcare
workers and have ability to set up screening sites.
DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE COORDINATOR: The criteria the federal government recommended are fairly strict and that's to
give states really the time to really set up exactly how they're going to contact trace with the CDC in the background as supporting.
JONES: While unveiling the plans in a phone call with governors, a source familiar with the conversation said the president told them you are going
to call your own shots. And that's what many state leaders are already doing.
GOV. LAURA KELLY (D-KS): Our thought process is right now is that we would look at what areas in the state of Kansas could we start using these take
it slow guidelines to reopen.
GOV. JOHN CARNEY (D-DE): I'm still saying stay at home, stay safe, we're still not out of this, we still haven't peaked.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right. And that was Athena Jones reporting.
Let's bring in Joe Johns. He's at the White House.
What is behind Donald Trump's decision after having claimed he has total authority to order the reopening of America? What is behind his decision to
now shift that authority and the decision-making to local and state officials?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hala, to be honest with you, this was a bit of smoke and mirrors. The president never had the
authority to tell the states what to do. The United States Constitution is not set up that way.
In fact, it is -- I haven't been able to find anybody here at the White House who told the president he had the authority to do such a thing. The
Constitution, the 10th Amendment, states rights, all of these are pretty well-settled. The issues in the United States, the other factor is, quite
frankly, it was states who were enforcing the shutdown orders, it was the states that put the shutdown orders in place.
So if the president had initially declared an emergency and then said, for a brief period, there would be a shutdown, he might have had a better
standing in which to say he was going to lift it, but since he didn't wade in that way, it was very difficult to see how the president could even try
to do this without an enormous court battle in a time of crisis in the United States -- Hala.
[10:05:11]
GORANI: All right, appreciate the update. Thanks very much, Joe Johns.
Let's speak now to the governor of the state of Connecticut, Ned Lamont. He's joining me now live from Hartford.
Governor, your state is approaching 1,000 coronavirus deaths and you've announced the establishment of a committee, an advisory board to reopen
Connecticut.
What is the plan? What is the timeline?
GOV. NED LAMONT (D-CT): I've got business leaders large and small and members of the scientific community co-chairing this, leading forward, to
give people a sense that we're going to be strict about our social distancing, and that's the best way to curve this virus. But in the medium
term, we're thinking about what we do going forward. What schools we can open, what businesses we can open, and how we do that.
GORANI: Mm-hmm. Yes, and the -- I have spoken to so many over the last few weeks, top scientific minds around the world, who warn against reopening
parts of the economy too soon, that there is a real risk of a second peak, especially considering your proximity to New York, which is the hardest hit
epicenter in the United States. What are your concerns? Do you have any concerns you might be moving too quickly here?
LAMONT: We haven't made any decisions. All we're doing is doing extensive testing, getting our PPE, seeing what we can think about. We're not going
to make any determinations for a month because we just don't have the information right now.
But, yes, I see what's going on in Singapore. I see a second surge happening there, because perhaps people move too quickly and took their eye
off the ball when it came to social distancing.
GORANI: Uh-huh. What about how other governors are reacting? You've said to CNN that governors are united. I know you're speaking with some of your
-- some of governors and other states, regional -- regionally connected to yours.
But then you have other governors. For instance, in Missouri, Mike Parson, did not issue a stay at home order until April 6th. The governor of Florida
provided loopholes for mass gatherings.
Are you concerned some part of the United States might not be taking the threat as seriously as your state is?
LAMONT: I don't want any false complacency. And we have a lot of snow birds that go down to Florida during the winter. But then they come back to
Connecticut in the summer.
GORANI: Yes.
LAMONT: You asked about perhaps a second surge. That could be a second surge. That is in part what happened in Hong Kong, isn't it? A lot of
travelers coming back.
GORANI: Yes. Yes, indeed.
So how concerned are you that other states might not be taking this as seriously, that perhaps they're providing too many loopholes for mass
gatherings because what happens in one state will impact another?
LAMONT: I can tell you what we are doing. I'm working closely with all of our regional governors and that's so important. It doesn't do me any good
to close down bars and restaurants if across the border in, say, Rhode Island or New York, the bars and restaurants are open. And people are going
back and forth and infecting each other.
So, governors are working on a regional basis, and that's a good start.
GORANI: What's your reaction to the president initially as we have been reporting, falsely claiming he has authority over the states to order the
economy reopened and now saying, look, it's up to you. What's your response the way you're hearing from federal authorities?
LAMONT: He's sometimes thinking out loud. We don't overreact. He talked two weeks ago about a mandatory quarantine of all of New York, we worked
through that, and made that voluntary.
Then when he talked about having the feds dictate to every state what exactly they're going to do, we worked through that and he came back with a
directive that says here is our guidance, but it's up to you, Governor.
GORANI: What about his decision or his announcement to defund the World Health Organization? This is something that obviously on CNN International
we cover this pandemic very much from a global perspective. And the WHO has come under criticism for perhaps reacting a little bit too late to the
pandemic, but essentially seen as a centralized organization that is useful right now in the midst of this health crisis.
What do you think about the United States withdrawing its funding?
LAMONT: I think it's the wrong move. I think we need the WHO more than ever. I need the WHO more aggressive early on. I need the CDC and the
American efforts more aggressive earlier on as well.
There's no time to point fingers at this point. We need the WHO. A pandemic is worldwide these days.
GORANI: And for your state, Connecticut, one of the key components of being able to reopen the economy is widespread testing.
[10:10:03]
You mentioned testing, where are you on that for Connecticut? And to provide as many tests as you can.
LAMONT: We have a long way to go. Obviously, we've ramped up to 3,000 or 4,000 tests a day. But we're a state of 3.5 million people. We've have got
some great labs, they are ramping up, but there is a supply chain for testing. There is a lot of ingredients and vials and swabs.
If any one piece is missing, their testing slows down. There, the federal government could be a lot more helpful.
GORANI: How many tests have been conducted in Connecticut?
LAMONT: About 50,000 so far.
GORANI: And your goal is how many?
LAMONT: My goal is to do tens of thousands every day. I think that's the best way for us to isolate those who should be quarantined. That's the best
way to know who can get back to work sooner.
GORANI: All right. Governor Lamont of Connecticut -- thanks so much for joining us. Best of luck to you and all the officials there dealing with
this health crisis in your state, and in -- across the country as well. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
LAMONT: Thanks.
GORANI: All right. Let's turn our attention now to China. We talked about -- no, in fact, we're going to go to Elizabeth Cohen in a second because
we're talking about now next the biggest next hurdle which is not testing but coming up with a vaccine. Testing, of course, but coming up with a
vaccine and treatment for COVID-19, which has killed so many people.
Coronavirus patients getting a certain drug, a reportedly recovering within days, not weeks, according to this experimental drug. We're showing you an
image of it there. The health news website STAT first reported the information after it obtained a video of a conversation about it.
Keep in mind, it was just doctors talking. This is not a clinical trial that has gone through all the necessary steps. Of course, it was enough to
send the drugmaker's stocks soaring.
Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me now with the details.
Talk to us about this drug that is showing some promise according to this medical chatter.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, and it is important to note that it is just medical chatter. These are doctors
talking.
You know, they said their patients were making a good recovery, but it could have been they would have made a good recovery without the drug as
most patients with this illness do. So, this drug could be very useful. It could also turn out to be useless, many treatments and vaccines are being
studied right now to treat COVID patients.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (voice-over): It seems to be President Trump's favorite drug.
TRUMP: I think it could be something rally incredible.
COHEN: It's hydroxychloroquine and early study results suggest it might not work and it could cause heart problems.
Thursday, the head of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration told "The Washington Post" that he doesn't feel political pressure to push this drug
forward as a treatment for COVID 19.
DR. STEPHEN HAHN, COMMISSIONER, U.S. FOOD & DRUG ADMINISTRATION: I can promise the American people that FDA will use science and data to drive our
decisions always.
COHEN: And there are other drugs being studied to see if they might work against the novel coronavirus. On Thursday, in just one day, nearly 40 new
clinical trials to study potential treatments for COVID-19 were registered here on this government list of clinical trials.
Biotech company Genentech announced Thursday that the FDA had given approval to move on with the next stage in trials for its drug called
Actemra, which is already used to treat arthritis and other ailments.
A similar drug called Kevzara from manufacturer Regeneron is also being studied to treat COVID-19. And in a video leaked to the health news website
STAT, doctors from the University of Chicago discussed how their patients taking an experimental antiviral drug called remdesivir were recovering
quickly. But it was literally just talk, not published research. So, no one knows for sure, not yet anyway, whether remdesivir, which was designed but
didn't work for Ebola, will work for COVID-19.
And beyond drugs, the FDA has put out a call for people to donate blood plasma if they already recovered from coronavirus. Their antibodies could
help people who are currently suffering. Studies are under way in New York and universities around the country.
The ultimate weapon, a vaccine is moving along at research centers around the world, including at the University of Oxford in England. They announced
that they teamed up with an Italian manufacturer to make a vaccine, all with an eye to putting an end to the pandemic.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Gilead, the company that makes remdesivir, putting out a press release saying wait for the published research, these are just anecdotal
reports.
Looking back to Ebola, about five years ago, Hala, I can remember there was so much excitement about so many treatments, so many anecdotes that they
worked and in the end, they didn't -- Hala.
[10:15:09]
GORANI: Right. Well, I guess any glimmer of hope is something we're going to try -- I'm sure we're going to latch on to.
There is also -- there is a biotech company awarded almost half a billion dollars to develop a vaccine. Talk to us about that, the race is really on
here when it comes to a vaccine.
COHEN: Right. Absolutely. So a division of the U.S. government has given that block, that big chunk of money to Moderna, which is a company that
makes vaccines. So, that's one of many companies trying to develop the vaccine obviously with the backing of the U.S. government and that much
money, that will make a big difference in allowing them to get their clinical trials up and going.
GORANI: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.
Ahead on the show, the original COVID-19 epicenter, Wuhan, now reporting a 50 percent increase in the death toll that it had previously announced.
And France's president has a stark warning for fellow European leaders. Come together or watch the E.U. crumble.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, the city of Wuhan in China, the original virus epicenter, is revising its death toll upward, quite significantly. It is adding almost
1,300 deaths attributed to COVID-19 and that brings the total there to nearly 3,900.
Let's bring in David Culver in Shanghai.
Now, that's a nearly 50 percent increase. What is behind this dramatic rise?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a big jump, Hala, but I something we have been calling for and asking about the anecdotal evidence of our
recent reporting, even our reporting dating back to January, to be quite honest, in which we were hearing from folks who were there saying their
loved ones had passed away, they weren't being tested or testing was significantly delayed and that those who did lose loved ones in one case,
one young man told us the doctor pulled him aside and said, we do believe it is that pneumonia, but we can't confirm it. And hence his mother didn't
go towards the total death count of coronavirus patients.
And so that is something we were looking at and saying the numbers aren't adding up. When we see this release, what the Wuhan City officials are
saying is that they did this in order to show accountability to their people, and to respect the lives that were lost and they went back through
and combed through the numbers and the cases and then decided to release this updated figure of as you put some 1,290 new death cases that they have
included.
But it is also coming as a lot of the skepticism has been waged against China in particular and the city of Wuhan originally, of course, faced a
lot of accusations of cover-up and underreporting.
[10:20:08]
And so they're now coming out with this, but still, Hala, the skepticism remains in that people believe the numbers could be a lot higher nationally
here.
And they did add a little bit more to the confirmed cases. It was some 300 more. But it still falls short of what other countries are certainly
experiencing and it is kind of tough to believe given, you know, this is the original epicenter of all of this.
But, you know, from the Chinese media perspective, of course, they don't want to perceive this to be perceived as though they're caving in to
international pressure and the claims that this was underreported from the beginning. Instead, they want it to be seen as a transparent step that was
done after the fact and calmly going through the past cases.
Nonetheless, it is a significant jump, 50 percent from where they previously reported, Hala.
GORANI: So can we trust these figures?
CULVER: It's a good question. I think it is -- for the people who lost loved ones, you know, if they can see for a fact that their relatives are
part of this new count and it is transparent in that manner and they can do a number by name and put it out in that kind of fashion, perhaps then there
will be more transparency, and you would be able to say for certain that the numbers are adding up.
But until we start to see a spreadsheet like that, that is released, and it's not public yet, it would be tough to say that there aren't still more
people who lost their lives to this, who have yet to be counted.
GORANI: David Culver, thanks very much.
Well, there are new numbers out of China on the country's economy. For a country normally firing on all cylinders, these are some pretty striking
figures. China is reporting a contraction of its economy for the first time since, listen to this, the 1970s. GDP shrank 0.8 percent in the first
quarter of 2020, compared to a year earlier.
Now on a more positive note for the Chinese, analysts predicted the country's economy will probably recover faster than other nations. The IMF
is predicting the country may actually see growth by the end of the year, although it's very, very difficult to predict to be honest because it just
depends on where this pandemic goes.
France's president is sounding the alarm on the country's health measure, preparedness, but also on whether or not the European Union can survive
this shock to its system. The E.U. is dealing with a coronavirus pandemic and Emmanuel Macron tells the "Financial Times" that member states need to
share the burden. He's calling for a joint virus recovery fund that lets E.U. countries share the debt that is caused by the pandemic.
But as is often the case with the E.U., not everyone is on board and Macron says the union itself is at stake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): So, we are at the moment of truth. It consists of knowing if the E.U. is a political project
or a market project. Solely, I think it's a political project. When it is political, what comes first is there are notions of solidarity at stake.
The economy depends on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Melissa Bell joins me now from Bourdeaux in France with a closer look.
I mean, it is interesting that Brexit really didn't cause as much disunity within the union as this coronavirus pandemic and southern European
countries are furious at the E.U. for not coming to their aid quickly enough. Does Macron have a point here?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. I think that is because Brexit in one respect, I think gathered the other members of the
United -- of the European Union together. This particular crisis points to that fundamental weakness of the European project as a whole that has never
been resolved.
If you cast your mind back a decade, the sovereign debt crisis, there was a very similar mechanism going on. We have seen these last few days, the
sell-off of Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese government bonds, widening of the yield with German bonds, and, of course, the problem for that is
that with the coronavirus, once again, we're having problems, but without question of solidarity.
Emmanuel Macron in that interview pointed out that, look, all economies at the moment, all European economies are having to put aside the old dogmas
of their economies so far by doing things like nationalizing wages, essentially nationalizing the financial accounts of businesses within the
country. And that means a shift of focus at the European level from the center must pay idea and that sort of fiscal responsibility that had been
put forward by the northern countries at the time, really having to bend this time.
[10:25:04]
This is his point. What he's trying to do, Hala, is put pressure on those reluctant European leaders, and I think you heard particular thinking of
Angela Merkel, in Germany, also the prime minister of the Netherlands, ahead of this crucial meeting next Thursday, which they will decide whether
or not to go ahead with this idea of the solidarity fund, 400 billion euro common debt part that would be allocated not according to the size of the
economies, but rather to their needs.
Of course, we have seen countries like Spain and Italy, particularly hard hit, his point is this is about the future of the European idea itself and
this is a real make or break point for the E.U. -- Hala.
GORANI: And just a brief point on the statement by Emmanuel Macron about how this could empower populist ideology and movements. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACRON: If we cannot do this today, I'm telling you, populists will win. Today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, Italy, Spain, perhaps in France
and maybe somewhere else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, there you have it. Another warning from Macron. He's issued those in the past. There seems to be real concern here that this could lead
to the rise of these populist movements even more than they have benefitted in the past from economic problems or other issues.
BELL: That's right, Hala. It is about the future of the European project as a whole, it is a question of the politics within those European
countries and he uses an interesting analogy. He goes back to the end of the First World War when France demanded reparations from Germany. That he
points out in his interview, Hala, directly led to the rise of populism in Germany and, of course, to World War II ultimately.
His point is that this is an extremely important moment and that this will fuel a completely different kind of politics. If the European Union does
not show for the first time its real desire to become a political project with that concept of solidarity at its heart, if it fails in this
particular case when solidarity is really on the lips of everyone as the world confronts this extraordinary crisis, it will have failed and it is a
different future politically that we can imagine within those European countries themselves -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Yet another test for the E.U. -- thanks, Melissa Bell in Bourdeaux.
Still to come, we will hear after the break from Yuval Noah Harari, a historian and futurist. He's one of the private donors helping the WHO
after the U.S. announced that it would be suspending funding.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, in light of the Trump administration announcing that it will cut funds to the World Health Organization, private donors have said
they're happy to step in and fill the void.
[10:30:07]
My next guest is Yuval Noah Harari, noted author, historian and futurist, he donated a million dollars to the covid-19 solidarity response fund for
the WHO, along with his husband and manager. They issued a statement about the gift saying, the inner demons of humankind are our biggest enemy now,
not the virus.
Yuval Noah Harari joins me now from near Jerusalem via Skype. So, talk to us about your $1 million donation, what -- how did you make that decision?
Is it after the U.S. president announced the country would be suspending its funding to the WHO?
YUVAL NOAH HARARI, HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR: Yes, we heard this news like with disbelief and shock and then basically my husband told me, he said, instead
of being shocked, why not do something positive about it? We are not billionaires, but we are well to do, and unlike so many people who lost
their jobs and lost their businesses, we don't have to worry about our livelihood.
So it is very important that people who have the ability will be generous in these days.
GORANI: When you say inner demons are more dangerous than the virus, what do you mean by that?
HARARI: I mean that if we start blaming other people, foreigners, minorities, for this epidemic, instead of uniting and sharing our
information, our abilities to fight the epidemic, if we start fighting among ourselves, it will make it much harder to deal with this crisis and
it will poison international relations for years to come.
If on the other hand, we can respond to this, in the spirit of global solidarity, I think we'll not just be able to deal with the virus much more
easily, but we'll also be able to come out of this in actually a much better shape than before and be prepared for future emergencies which will
certainly come.
GORANI: Yes, you wrote an op-ed for the "Financial Times" and I want to read one excerpt from it. This echoes what you just said in a little bit
more detail.
This time of crisis, we face two particularly important choices, the first is between totalitarian surveillance and citizen empowerment, the second is
between nationalist isolation and global solidarity.
I'm particularly interested in the choice between totalitarian surveillance and citizen empowerment, because one of the points you make is that when
people are given the choice between their privacy and their health, they tend to choose their health. How do we navigate that?
HARARI: Well, we don't give them this choice, not in these terms. It is wrong to tell people you have to choose, either privacy or health. No, you
can have both.
The same way that in relations with my private physician I get both health and privacy, it should also be the case on a much larger scale of the
epidemic. We certainly need surveillance in order to deal with this crisis, but it should be done in a democratic way. We shouldn't give it to the
police or to the army to monitor everybody.
It should be done by an independent healthcare authority. And whenever you increase surveillance of the citizens, at the same time, as a package, you
should also increase surveillance monitoring of the government, for instance, how is it making decisions and how does it allocate the enormous
resource and funds it is making available. If it is easy to monitor us, it should also at the same time be easy to monitor them.
GORANI: But in a way, we are relinquishing this power to the police, to the military. I mean, we get fined if we walk out a little bit, you know,
if we venture out too far from our own areas. We are -- we are accepting this deal with our leaders right now that we will allow them to police our
movements and, you know, when and where and how we get back to work and earn our livelihoods.
So we are already making that deal with our leaders, aren't we?
HARARI: Yes, and that's very good. I'm all in favor of having emergency measures and certainly following the guidelines that people receive. This
is not against democracy as long as the guidelines are issued by an accountable government and as long as we know why and how the government is
making decisions, it is not a dictatorial decrees of somebody not accountable to us, but perfectly OK.
And this is also where I think the world health organization is important because there are countries when the citizens cannot trust their
governments, when they can't trust the information they get from their government.
[10:35:13]
And this is why it is so important to have an organization like the World Health Organization which collects and disseminates information all over
the world in the way that certainly the poorer countries cannot do for -- by themselves. It is important to remember that global information is the
vital fuel of everything we do, of all the local initiatives.
If you don't have information, you don't know how to identify the disease. You don't know which lockdown measures are effective.
GORANI: Yes. And, by the way, you mentioned that some governments -- might be difficult to dial back some of these emergency measures and already
we're seeing some leaders perhaps take advantage of this coronavirus pandemic to give themselves the power to rule by decree. We have seen it in
some European countries.
As you look at this pandemic, how will this pandemic, do you think, change us, us free societies in the most impactful way, when we look back at pre-
COVID and look forward to post-COVID?
HARARI: It is -- I don't know at the moment because it is not inevitable. It is not predetermined. The most important thing to realize is that in
this crisis, we have a lot of choices to make. There isn't just a single future. We can choose how to react and which world to shape.
Even if you think about something as simple as washing your hands, you can make millions of people wash their hands by putting policeman or camera in
every toilet and punishing people who don't wash their hands or you can just convey scientific information to the population that viruses and
bacteria cause disease that you can remove them or kill them by washing your hands, and then you can rely on the people to make the right choice.
Generally, most cases, a well-informed and self-motivated population is far more effective than an ignorant police population. So contrary to what many
people are saying these days, it is not true that dictatorships are inherently better in dealing with such emergencies.
GORANI: Yes. Yes, we do see some countries, Sweden is an example, their numbers aren't as encouraging as others where they're trusting their
population to do the right thing in terms of sanitation.
Yuval Noah Harari, thank you so much for joining us. It was really a great pleasure having you on the program and discussing your perspective today.
And I hope you stay safe.
Coming up on the program, an antibody test to help get people back to work. That's one of the big challenges going forward. The antibody test could be
a bit more than a dollar each. That would be fantastic.
Let's take a break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:40:35]
GORANI: Well, one key to getting the global economy running again is antibody testing, to see who has had COVID-19 and recovered from it.
One company in the U.K. says it may have an answer that costs a bit more than a dollar. Scientists say the test can detect if you already had it and
it is as simple as a finger prick.
Nick Paton Walsh has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Hala, this is a global race. There is not a nation that doesn't want to have the ability to
find out who already had the virus and therefore maybe carrying antibodies that most scientists think will at least convey for the short-term some
immunity to catching the disease again. I mean, a lot of tests out there over the last month, some of which, U.S., other experts warned haven't
really stood up to the claims that they actually have been able to make.
But one U.K. company has done a lot of volume dating of their own tests before pushing it out there and seems to be pretty happy with the accuracy
it's got so far.
(voice-over): We know little about the virus, that emptied our world but cling to one hope, that if you had it, you might be immune for a short
while at least.
(on camera): In deserted cities like London around the world, the question, is there an antibody test out there reliable enough to tell if
you had the disease and might be safe to go back to work?
(voice-over): It is a messy global race to an antibody test with possibly one British solution. A company Mologic say they have a quick test and
after lengthy validation by independent scientists will in days have European self certification.
They do hope to do hundreds of thousands in a laboratory this week month. And within weeks, make 10-minute home testing kits.
Professor has been validating the tests at St. George's Hospital in London.
SANJEEV KRISHNA, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, ST. GEORGE'S UNIVERSITY OF LONDON: I'm very pleased with the results that we've seen so far. We have done
quite a lot of work to ensure that the test does detect antibodies in those people who have definitely have the virus, and we're now expanding those
studies to look at and see how specific the test is.
WALSH: By specific, he means the important part, to be sure the test doesn't mistake other viruses or health problems for coronavirus. This is a
prototype version of the test for use by doctors or healthcare workers in hospital.
KRISHNA: And who is at greater risk than healthcare workers taking care of patients with COVID-19?
WALSH: They hope to soon make a version for the home, this is Sanjeev's kitchen for everyone, for as little as $1.20.
KRISHNA: Collect your blood.
WALSH: This test contains tiny traces of the virus and shows a line where the antibodies in your blood react with them.
Mologic hoped all their validating gives them an edge in the crowded market and even approval from the WHO or FDA soon for the final goal of mass cheap
home tests.
Krishna tests negative, by the way.
JOE FITCHETT, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, MOLOGIC: If the test comes out to be exceptionally accurate, takes ten minutes and it can be certain (INAUDIBLE)
--
WALSH: Why not?
FITCHETT: -- but the way we are approaching it at the moment, is we have a well functioning laboratory for the test that is robust, that validating
this week, and we can scale manufacturing to high numbers. We want to see light at the end of the tunnel, but we need to make sure it's not
headlights, and that it is sunlight, and we'll keep working on ensuring we get good reliable tests that does more benefit than harm.
WALSH: Science facing huge hurdles of mass production and accuracy. But also to promise the hope they bring is real.
(on camera): Now, accuracy is all in this. You heard him say there, last thing you want is the light at end of the tunnel to be a headlight and not
sunlight. They need to be sure they don't give false hope or send people possibly back out into society who haven't yet had the virus and could be
susceptible.
So initially this company looking to do hundreds of thousands this month in a laboratory setting, a little more time consuming, but then can build the
sense of confidence in what they have got and possibly put out for just about $1.20, incredibly cheap, home testing kits. That could be the game
changer around the world, frankly, governments are looking for. But they still need approval from the FDA, the WHO for much more global
distribution.
[10:45:00]
But strides are being made certainly and their confidence and the likelihood in the days ahead they may get European self-certification which
could push this test forward fast indeed, Hala.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Nick, for that.
Coming up, I'll give you an inside look on what it is like for me to work from home. I've been joining loads of other people around the world working
from my own house. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back.
So, obviously, being confined and self-quarantined isn't just about protecting your physical health. It also has some major potential effects
on your mental health. And Britain's duke and duchess of Cambridge are urging people to take care of their mental health during a stressful and
uncertain time.
In a video call from their home, Prince William and his wife Catherine gave advice from the government's Every Mind Matters Program. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE WILLIAM, UNITED KINGDOM: I think, again, staying connected, staying positive and being able to talk to friends and families is so crucial and
having just tips and some ideas to how to tackle some of this strange feelings and difficult circumstances we're finding ourselves is very, very
important, just to nudge us through these next few weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. The royal couple experienced the direct concern of having a family member with COVID-19, because as you might remember,
William's father Prince Charles tested positive for COVID last month. He has since recovered.
A little more room to spread out there, the couple, but certainly they are acknowledging this is a very difficult time for mental health.
Now, working from home is the new normal, obviously. And I'm getting used to it as well. I'm not broadcasting from a professional studio here.
Here is a look behind the scenes of what a typical workday has been like for me over the last few weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Hi, I'm Hala Gorani and this is my working from home setup.
So, we're about to go on the air in a few minutes, AROUND THE WORLD on CNN International. But our day starts a lot earlier.
With a morning meeting, and I don't walk into a meeting room. I walk in a living room for that, my own living room.
Full disclosure it a bit of an adjustment. But we try to keep the lines of communication open with the tools we have. I sit on my sofa with a cup of
coffee and everything is done remotely.
But this is based on maintaining social distancing measures.
After that is done, obviously, there is still a lot more to do before we can take the show to air. And I have even more respect for our makeup
artists who do in 20 minutes what I'm barely able to achieve in sometimes over an hour.
But here's the result. I did my best.
Then it is research time. I sit at my home desk in my study and that's where I read in, that's where I do research for my guests.
We're learning Boris Johnson's condition was serious.
Time for a quick phone call with my producer, all remotely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is an employment counselor for the Madrid region.
GORANI: Meantime, my husband, cameraman Christian Streib, is setting up in kitchen for the show.
[10:50:04]
And broadcasting doesn't involve any satellite truck parked outside the house. It is all done over the internet. You plug in, you run the cable as
far as you possibly can, and plug it in the other end.
And right before air, let's not forget, there is one member of the family that needs to spend some alone time in another room.
So we're about ready to go, we are ten minutes away from air. Here is where I broadcast from. It is not a professional television studio as you can
see. It is a kitchen.
This is my kitchen table. I have a sofa throw on the kitchen table to muffle the sound. I don't have a prompter. My scripts are on this tablet. I
try to look down as little as possible.
I do get dressed up for the show. The upper half doesn't always match the bottom half. And this is return as we call it, which means this is where I
see CNN international aired to make sure I know when I'm on camera, what video is running, when I'm broadcasting.
And now, we're ready to go live. On the air, from my kitchen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And here I am. You got a little behind the scenes, little taster of what it is like to get the show on the air.
It's been challenging. But it also has been very rewarding.
And let's move on to the next story. You may have heard the name Captain Tom Moore around the world. Even though his accomplishment took place here
in the U.K., he has inspired an entire nation. He's raised millions and millions of dollars to fight the COVID-19 pandemic and donations are still
pouring in.
Captain Tom at last count, World War II veteran Captain Tom has raised more than $23 million to support the National Health Service in the U.K. after
walking 100 laps in his garden. He's 99. And his incredible feat earned him a shout-out from Prince William who called him an absolute legend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE WILLIAM: It is amazing. What I love also is that he's 99 years old, he's been around a long time, knows everything, and it is wonderful that
everyone kind of is inspired by his story, his determination. So, you know, I think he's a one man fund-raising machine and God knows what the final
total will be. But good on him, and I hope it keeps going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Right, and we don't know what the final total will be because donations are still pouring in. We're fortunate to have Captain Tom Moore
with us now, and his daughter, Hannah Ingram-Moore. And they're joining me both from Bedfordshire in England.
Thank you, Captain Moore and Hannah. Thanks for being with us.
First of all, I want to ask you, Mr. Moore, your reaction to this unbelievable sum that you've managed to raise, 18 million pounds. That's
$23 million. What is your reaction?
CAPTAIN TOM MOORE, BRITISH ARMY VETERAN: I think I'm absolutely overwhelmed by this sum of money. When you into American dollars, it's
really more bigger, and we're never ever for a minute thought we would get to this source of money, which started off with a little modest figure, we
made a thousand pounds, which we did and we collect.
And then we had decided we would extend ourselves to the local press and then from there on it just went on and on and on, getting bigger and bigger
all the time. But it was never -- we're never, ever for a moment anticipated we would get to this enormous figure of money for the National
Health Service.
GORANI: Oh, gosh, I am so happy I'm able to talk to you. For several days I've been following this fund-raiser on just giving page and I understand
you're still accepting donations.
And, Hannah, I want to ask your dad again, what do you think, Captain Tom, has -- why do you think people responded so much to your appeal in
particular?
MOORE: Because our National Health Service is so good, (INAUDIBLE) so good. I had a broken hip and I had cancer and they treated me
magnificently.
So, I think people realize that our National Health Service is an active one and everyone, wherever they are, gets equally treated just as well.
[10:55:05]
And with the same efficiency and kindness that we get from our nurses and doctors who, after all, are on the firing line with all, are on the firing
line with all, are on the firing line with this rather unprecedented virus that we have got and you got, and show you eventually, we should all got to
it (ph), and we all will do well in the end.
GORANI: I love this.
Hannah, you must be very proud of your -- of your dad. And how do you -- how have you been living these last few days? A lot of press attention,
worldwide attention, right now we're on CNN International, seen all over the world, how has this been for you?
HANNAH INGRAM-MOORE, DAUGHTER OF CAPTAIN TOM MOORE: It has been the most incredible journey, it has been squeezed in about ten days. It is only ten
days ago that we sat outside on our terrace having a barbecue one sunny Sunday and my father was (INAUDIBLE) before he gets to his 100th birthday,
we said, OK, 100 pounds and why don't we see if we can make a bit of money for the National Health Service.
That's where it started ten days ago, not even two weeks ago. It has been phenomenal and the media attention from around the world has been -- we
have been trying the best we can. We want to give a little bit of joy to everybody.
GORANI: And you have done that.
Captain Tom, how do you react to people calling you a hero twice over? Once for your service during World War II and now again at the age of 99 for
what you've done for the NHS?
INGRAM-MOORE: So what do you think of being called a hero twice over, once for serving in World War II and now for this achievement in raising so much
money for the National Health Service?
MOORE: Thank you for your kind remarks. I never thought for a minute this was going to be any sort of achievement to the National Health Service.
Anything I did was not with any intention of an achievement, just to help the service (INAUDIBLE) do well for them.
GORANI : All right, Captain Tom Moore, we're showing the just giving page at almost 19 million pounds and, Hannah, his daughter, thanks to both of
you for joining us.
What a great way to end the show.
INGRAM-MOORE: Thank you very much.
GORANI: Your weekend, try to have a great one. It's difficult. We're all at home, we're all in this -- we're all in -- we're trying to all be in
this together. I'll see you next time.
Stay with CNN. A lot more ahead.
END
