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Race for a Vaccine As Global COVID-19 Death Toll Tops 300,000; Macron Summons Sanofi Chief; Caesars Palace Prepares to Reopen. Aired 10- 11a ET
Aired May 15, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:10]
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our continuing coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. I'm Hala Gorani in London.
Ahead this hour, the race for the COVID-19 vaccine. As the global death mounts, we'll bring you a special report from inside a London lab.
Also, tension in France as a row erupts between the government and the pharmaceutical giant Sanofi. Why comments the CEO made have enraged the
President Emmanuel Macron. We are live in Paris with more.
And we'll take you inside Caesars Palace to see how the casino plans to keep gamblers safe once the Las Vegas Strip reopens.
(MUSIC)
GORANI: Well, it is a question on everybody's mind every day, pretty much. When will the world get a coronavirus vaccine?
The unprecedented race to find a vaccine goes on as the global death toll from COVID-19 tops 300,000 people. Nearly 86,000 of those deaths have
happened in the United States so far. That is where President Donald Trump is voicing optimism that a vaccine will be found by years end, that
contradicts with experts have been saying, though they reiterate day after day that it will take longer, and that is months faster than the best case
timetable offered by Dr. Anthony Fauci who's on the White House Coronavirus Task Force.
The president will talk about vaccine development from the White House in two hours, we'll carry that live.
A demoted top American vaccine researcher gave some grim predictions about the speed of vaccine development in U.S. House testimony yesterday. His
name is Rick Bright. He also had a stark warning about the months ahead.
Kaitlan Collins has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, the vaccine official ousted from his job during the coronavirus pandemic said
the administration's failure to warn the public about coronavirus cost lives.
DR. RICK BRIGHT, FORMER HEAD, BARDA: DR. RICK BRIGHT, FORMER HEAD, BARDA: I believe Americans need to be told the truth. People were not as prepared
as they could and should have been.
COLLINS: Testifying for the first time since he was removed from his role as the head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority,
Rick Bright with a dire warning that the U.S. doesn't have a master plan, and there still aren't enough tests.
BRIGHT: There still are not enough tests.
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): So even this week, as we're being told, anybody who wants a test can have a test, is that true in the United States
of America?
BRIGHT: No.
COLLINS: Bright alleges he was demoted for objecting to the widespread distribution of a drug promoted by the president.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hydroxychloroquine.
COLLINS: And he says he was pressured to make it more widely available.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the pressure from the White House and HHS general counsel put you in a difficult position?
BRIGHT: Yes.
COLLINS: Bright says his superiors disregarded his early warnings about mask shortages, even though he passed along this urgent message from Mike
Bowen, one of the only mask manufacturers in the U.S.
BRIGHT: "We're in deep shit. The world is. And we need to act."
And I pushed that forward to the highest levels I could in HHS and got no response.
COLLINS: The former vaccine chief said he's troubled by the government's seeming inability to ramp up production of simple resources like swabs.
BRIGHT: It says to me, sir, that there is no master coordinated plan on how to respond to this outbreak.
COLLINS: Bright cautioned that there could be more shortages to come if the U.S. doesn't make a plan now about how to distribute a vaccine once
it's ready. He also cast doubt on the president's optimistic timeline about when that will be.
TRUMP: I think we're going to have a vaccine by the end of the year.
DINGELL: Will we be able to vaccinate people in the next few months?
BRIGHT: It's very unlikely.
COLLINS: As he left the White House for Pennsylvania, President Trump said he watched Bright but dismissed his allegations.
TRUMP: To me, he's nothing more than a really disgruntled, unhappy person.
COLLINS: The health and human services secretary also pushed back on Bright's claims as he testified, arguing that they're unfounded.
ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Everything he's complaining about was achieved.
COLLINS (on camera): Now Mike Bowen is the executive of that company that Bright was talking about as he was testifying, warning about possible
shortages of masks.
He also testified, and he said that he's been a lifelong Republican, but he's embarrassed by how the federal government has responded to the
coronavirus outbreak. And he said that they need to be listening to the scientists, something he says he doesn't think they are doing right now.
Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: While the president of the United States has been at odds with experts since the beginning of this pandemic and not just on vaccines but
on testing as well saying that testing could be even overrated, John Harwood joins me now from the White House with more.
[10:05:10]
What are we expecting Donald Trump to say at the White House at noon Eastern which is in two hours?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hala, we're expecting the president to introduce the two men who are going to lead what he is calling
Operation Warp Speed, which is the attempt to accelerate at a historic rate the evolution or the development of a vaccine against the coronavirus.
Those two men are Moncef Slaoui. He's a former pharmaceutical executive. Gustave Perna, he is a four-star army general. He's a logistics expert and
the chief operating officer of this.
Now, whether there are developments in the research, we've got multiple candidates around the world being developed. Some very promising including
at Oxford and NIH, and the administration says it's been cutting red tape to accelerate the development. We don't know about any breakthrough yet
that would allow us to put a date on when vaccines would be available.
Anthony Fauci has said 12 to 18 months, beginning in January. He offered that time line. That's very fast on a historic basis. And we have heard
also, though, from former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb, that may even be possible given this accelerated rate that emergency use vaccine doses could
be given to humans in September if there are outbreaks in particular areas. The question after that, of course, would be when you could ramp up
production so that rank and file Americans could get that vaccine and give us an exit strategy from this crisis, Hala.
GORANI: Also, as experts said, no, there's a reason it takes this long, is to make sure that the vaccine is effective but also that it's safe.
And "The Lancet" medical journal has really weighed into politics in its editorial, writing, Americans must put in the White House a president who
will understand that public health shouldn't be guided by partisan politics. Americans must put a president in the White House come January
2021.
So, urging Americans to vote for the rival to Donald Trump, the presumptive nominee, Joe Biden.
Is that surprising that a medical journalist should take such a position so publicly?
HARWOOD: It is. It's a very rare kind of step. But it's very rare for a president like Donald Trump that's so disdainful of public health
authorities. He's now picking fights with Anthony Fauci, who's his top general in the fight against coronavirus, and questioning the judgment of
scientific efforts.
And this is -- "The Lancet" is really a primal scream in response from the public health community saying, listen to us, act on our recommendations.
That's a debate that's going to continue all the way through the rest of the year.
GORANI: John Harwood at the White House as always, thanks very much.
So let's talk more about these vaccines because as scientists, as experts have noted again and again, this is what will change our lives drastically,
because once we have a vaccine, we can obviously protect ourselves against the coronavirus. And one lab here in London is working on a plan to get a
vaccine out. It's an unconventional technique. I talked to the head of the project on the show just earlier this week.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh takes us inside his lab.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Everywhere, there's a race for a COVID vaccine. But here in London,
Paddington, there's a race for a new type of vaccine altogether.
Professor Robin Shattock is leading a team at Imperial College who are using a new technique to get the human body to recognize the most dangerous
part of the virus, the hook, or spike on its outside, so the body can be ready if it ever sees the real thing.
(on camera): You're not even giving the body part of the virus. You're giving the body the plans for the most deadly part of the virus.
ROBIN SHATTOCK, PROFESSOR, FACULTY OF MEDICINE, IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON: Absolutely.
WALSH (voice-over): They begin human trials in mid-June and hope for 6,000 human tests by October. Maybe early next year, this revolutionary technique
will be ready for you or I.
Here's how it works.
SHATTOCK: The spikes on the surface of the virus are what allows it to attack and get into the cells in your body.
WALSH: Their technique injects the genetic code of that spike into the body, and lets your muscle cells make lots of the spikes.
SHATTOCK: And your immune system recognizes that and starts to make antibodies that bind and recognize that spike, so that when you see the
whole virus, having been immunized, your immune system immediately makes antibodies that lock onto the spike and means that the virus can no longer
infect cells.
WALSH: It's a new technique entirely, because most vaccines give a weakened entire virus for the body to learn to fight.
[10:10:06]
SHATTOCK: The cells are working like a factory. They're making the vaccine themselves, doing the heavy lifting, rather than us having to make huge
amounts of virus in a manufacturing plant.
WALSH: And this technique has two advantages: the amounts needed per dose are tiny, and so 16,000 liters could in theory, they say, be enough to
vaccinate the entire world.
And two, the technique, if successful, can be used for other viruses, too, in the future.
The huge steps coronavirus is forcing us to take, leading us into a new world of great, unexpected advances.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, speaking of viruses, the French President Emmanuel Macron has summoned the CEO of the pharmaceutical giant Sanofi for a meeting next
week. There was an uproar after the Sanofi CEO Paul Hudson seemed to suggest the first doses of any vaccine that they come up with would go to
the United States. However, a company spokesperson says that is the case and Hudson's comments were misinterpreted.
Cyril Vanier is in Paris with more on this controversy.
So how are these -- what does the spokesperson say was misinterpreted? What is the actual position of Sanofi on this if they manage to develop a
vaccine ahead of anyone else?
CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, I would tell our viewers it's the substance of its message. So on earlier this week, the CEO of Sanofi
did say that the U.S. would have priority when it comes to preordering the vaccine and it means that it may give them days or even weeks to order the
vaccines before other countries can and the reason given for this was that the U.S. is putting money on the table to the tune of tens of millions of
dollars to help not only the research, but also the actual production, preproduction of the vaccine. And for that reason, Sanofi says, well,
they'll have priority.
But that's not how Europe, and especially not how France sees it at all. France believes that the vaccine, if and when it exists, should be a public
good. Everybody should have equal access to vaccine.
France is also furious because, of course, Sanofi is a French lab. It gets millions of euros of tax credit every year to fund it's research here in
France, but when it comes down to it, Sanofi is actually sending a very strong message to both France and Europe saying, well, do like the United
States. Put some money on the table. Help us with your agencies and help us actually get ready manufacturing hundreds of millions of these if you want
them as a matter of priority.
But, of course, the language has been changed because it is so politically sensitive here.
GORANI: Yes. And, interestingly, Sanofi also makes hydroxychloroquine which is that drug that the president in the early weeks of the pandemic,
the president of the United States said could be, should be tested for use on coronavirus patients, even though that was unproven and in some cases
proved fatal for people that took that drug not on the advice of the doctor and not to treat what it was developed for. So that's an interesting
consequence?
VANIER: I wouldn't call it a consequence. I'd say that you're seeing the difference in philosophy between the U.S. and France, and in the middle,
you have a pharmaceutical giant, which is very much a part of the private sector, and which is a money-making company and which has to navigate both
of these fields and when it comes to the U.S., health is a private commodity that most people buy and if Sanofi can sell its products usually
at a higher rate, at a higher price in the U.S., that will likely be the case of the vaccine if and when it exists, whereas in France, a lot of the
health sector is heavily subsidized by the government and the government has this approach that health is a common good.
And so, you see Sanofi trying to navigate both of these approaches. As far as hydroxychloroquine is concerned, what they said was and what they did
was they did actually honor their -- the orders that they got from the U.S. and they shipped out a lot more to the U.S. than they ordinarily would have
at the beginning of this epidemic. They also said, by the way, Hala, they don't know whether hydroxychloroquine is actually a cure for the virus. And
it now turns out to be, there appears to be a relative consensus emerging within the scientific community that it isn't.
GORANI: Thank you very much, Cyril Vanier, in Paris.
Just ahead, in some U.S. states, people with cabin fever from coronavirus lockdown can now sit down at a restaurant, get a hair cut or try on a new
pair of sweat pants. We thought that's what we were doing on lockdown. Doctors say, though, it's still too early to tell what this new openness
means for COVID-19 infection. One of our medical analysts will be here to sort it out for us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: In the United States, both public health officials and politicians are closely watching coronavirus infection rates in the state of Georgia.
That's because the governor there took a lot of heat for being among the first to start easing lockdown restrictions over the last few weeks, even
though the infection curve hadn't flattened fully yet.
For stores, restaurants, even gyms and massage parlors, there was an ability to reopen.
Now, even more facilities to even summer camps. Now, after three weeks, how is that gamble going?
Natasha Chen joins me now live from Atlanta. She's at an outdoor mall.
Are you at Atlantic station, I think, sort of outdoor mall area? How is it going there? Is it as busy as it normally would be?
NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, it's still early. So we're not seeing a ton of people just yet. But we do know that one of the
restaurants just around the corner from where I'm standing told us that yesterday, there was a line out the door of people wanting to come in. And
they're able to serve 139 people seated and, of course, that's partly because as you mentioned, there's continues to be a roll out of different
businesses reopening in the state and the governor did relax this week the rules for restaurants.
So, now, there could be a little bit more density and also up to ten people for parties seated instead of just six. So, it keeps getting bigger and
bigger as far as what people are able to do.
We can see that people are eager for taking advantage of those businesses that are open.
Now, let's talk about the numbers a little bit, because everyone is serious about how this played out in terms of the health effects. Well, the bottom
line is we haven't seen a huge major spike in new daily cases. If we look at a graph of the new daily cases, we want to take a look at the red line
that shows more of the pattern. Each point on that redline shows a 7-day average and what you're seeing is not a huge increase, also not a huge
decrease.
You're seeing a little bit of wiggling in the same zone. At best inching downward so depending on how you look at it, that could be good news or bad
news. Critics, of course, said this was very early, very aggressive. In fact, the mayor of Atlanta said it looks like Georgia and the city of
Atlanta has, you know, gone back to normal but there is nothing normal about where we are with COVID-19.
Yesterday, she was briefing her city council and she also said that, you know, it's important to maintain the vigilance of social distancing and
making sure that message is out there to residents in the area about being careful, because if we pull back too soon, we could see these numbers shift
again.
[10:20:04]
So it's a very precarious moment. Of course, three weeks in, it's a good time to look at this but also not the entire picture since there can be
lags in receiving results from testing and otherwise.
So, Hala, I think people are both eager to get out there but businesses and officials are wary of making sure that that is done in a safe manner.
GORANI: Natasha Chen, thanks very much. Live in Atlanta.
Well, obviously, the medical community -- not just the medical community, all of us, we're all carefully watching what is going on in these states
that have reopened several weeks ago. We're watching infection and hospitalization rates and open states like Georgia. Perhaps this gives an
idea, a glimpse into our own futures.
Dr. James Phillips is a physician and an assistant professor at George Washington University Hospital and he joins me now live.
Dr. Phillips, thanks for being with us.
So, Georgia reopened some non-essential businesses on April 26th. That was three weeks ago, two weeks ago, they allowed restaurants and cafes to open
up again. We're seeing their rate of infection plateau.
What do you make of these numbers?
DR. JAMES PHILLIPS, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Well, it's hopeful. You know, as a -- as a citizen, I realized
the importance of trying to reopen businesses. Been locked up in our home just like everyone else and we're going return to some sense of normalcy.
But as an emergency physician, as a disaster scientists, you know, we have to look at this from an evidence based standpoint and so far that evidence
appears favorable.
Now, we have to keep in mind that there's some ability in how things are reported. There's daily differences in reporting. Some things are reported
after the weekend. So we see how important that 7-day average is when we're talking about this.
But pleasantly surprised with where the plateau has stayed. But it's also important to remember that the effects of this viral transmission are
delayed by days to weeks following a reopening. Now, we have to be careful and mindful that we shouldn't have expected all the cases to happen on a
day that -- to be transmitted on a day so that everything opened, so that if we haven't seen it by now, that means that we're in the clear.
Certainly that's not the case. We need to be mindful and watch this for the next couple of weeks to really see where it's going to go.
GORANI: Because that's what those who oppose these lockdown measures have seized upon as you know, Dr. Phillips. They said, you know, we said he we
were told that it would be an increased death toll, that there would be -- you know, hospital emergency rooms and morgues would be overwhelmed, not
only has not happened, but in some cases, day-to-day numbers are going down.
So, you're saying we should be still be cautious, though, and wait a few weeks to see if this is sustained?
PHILLIPS: Oh, absolutely. I think that some of the initial guidelines that were put out by the White House task force, which require 14 days of
monitoring, with a steady decline in a number of cases, those were valuable but they were pushed aside, just like the CDC reopening guidelines were
pushed aside and now substituted with one page flowcharts of vague information recommendations.
So, I think it's important that we don't try to let our own personal biases of how we want the world to be, be influenced by data.
You know, it's been said forever, there are three types of lives. There's lies, damned lies and statistics. And we can't allow the statistics to be
manipulated in a way that confirms our own internal believes and biases.
We have to take an evidence-based approach to this and I'm hopeful to watch for these two states in particular move over the next two weeks because,
you know, people need to get back to work. People need their paychecks and I'm very sympathetic to that. But I also, as a physician, it's my job to
keep people as safe as I can be. So, that's my own bias.
GORANI: What's been your experience over the last two to three weeks in your hospital? I mean, have you seen a decline in numbers? Are you starting
to find that the pandemic is plateauing, that you're starting to be able to get a handle on it or not?
PHILLIPS: It's still steady. You know, we had an increase a few weeks ago and we found kind of a steady state. But here in Washington, D.C., where I
work at George Washington, we've had some, I wouldn't call it aggressive, but some appropriate local decisions made to continue the lockdown.
Just yesterday, our mayor released guidance that we're going to continue to have businesses for the most part shutdown into the next month. And we all
believe that that is appropriate. It's allowing us to maintain this lower level of infection which is what flattening the curve was all about. It's
about taking the big spike out where we overwhelm the health system and spacing it out over months.
So I don't expect a decline in a major way any time soon because that's not what the overarching goal was of flattening the curve sort of campaign.
[10:25:07]
But my fear is, is that as we continue to start to reopen things incrementally, we are going to see an increasing cases. I would be
extremely surprised if that doesn't happen around the country.
GORANI: Yes. Well, we did see in countries like, for instance, in South Korea where really the number of daily cases was close to zero for a few
weeks that one infection in a night club lead to 150 or so cases. And so, that it can be very quick, because it's a very infectious. So you have to
stay vigilant.
Donald Trump, the U.S. president, says testing could be overrated. That millions of tests are being performed in the United States and they're not
necessarily as useful as what he is saying, as experts say.
What's your reaction to that?
PHILLIPS: That's just nonsense. That's absolute nonsense. Testing is critical. If you talk to any epidemiologist, infection control expert, or
physician. We know that testing is our most useful weapon against this.
It allows us to find out who is infected so that we can isolate them, contract trace, who they've been near and then test those folks as well.
It's the only way to try to quell this, rather than letting it just run rampant.
Now, I understand that some of these statistics have some political advantage to them as states are showing that they're increasing their
testing that proves favorable for the leadership of that state. In our -- it appears that our president has long favored low numbers of confirmed
cases and that goes along with what you're seeing from the beginning.
What we know -- and what we're seeing in states around the United States now, a few of them, is there's a blending of molecular testing with
confirmed cases and also sneaking in those serological, those antibody tests as well, to make it appear that we're testing more people so we got
to be mindful and know what the statistics are because they are be manipulated to be advantageous from a political standpoint.
GORANI: You know, I have not had an antibody test but I want to have one because -- and correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure that I'm wrong at least on
some level. But if I test positively for the antibodies, does that necessarily mean I've had the virus in my system and does it mean that I'm
immune?
PHILLIPS: Good question. So if you test positive for that, it's very safe to assume that you have been exposed to and or infected with the virus. It
would mean that the virus has been in your body in a way that it stimulated your immune system to produce antibodies to fight it off.
And what we don't know yet, we can reasonably assume based on what we know about other viruses, but we need evidence to prove that you are immune for
re-infection because each different type of virus can infect the body in different ways when it comes to long-term immunity, which is why sometimes
you need a single vaccine against one type. Sometimes you need boosters down the road and sometimes, with viruses that cause that common cold, that
immunity waxes to a level that you -- or wanes to a level that you become able to be re-infected.
And we do see that with other types of coronaviruses.
GORANI: Right.
PHILLIPS: So there's testing going on right now, these -- the mellification tests where they're testing people right now to see if they
maintain immunity and look forward to seeing that data. But until we have that data, we can't assume anything.
GORANI: Right. We need to -- we need to learn so much more about this virus and this illness.
Dr. James Phillips, thank you so much for joining us on CNN. We really appreciate it.
Coming up, anger is growing over the British government's response to the spread of COVID-19 in care homes and nursing homes. More on the staggering
number of deaths in those facilities, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:31:24]
GORANI: Well, there is growing anger in this country over the mounting scale of deaths in nursing homes across the United Kingdom, called care
homes here. And new report by Britain's office for national statistics shows more than 25 percent of care home deaths in England and Wales were
caused by COVID-19.
It comes as Prime Minister Boris Johnson is under fire for downplaying the risks of infections in those facilities, during the early days of the
pandemic.
Our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward joins me now from London.
And there's also according to some research the possibility that there have been more care home deaths that were not counted as COVID deaths in this
country.
MELISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. I mean, this has been a bone of contention for quite sometime now but it's
only getting worse and worse for the prime minister as the opposition leader here putting increased pressure on the government to explain its
policy right up until March 12th whereby Prime Minister Boris Johnson was saying that they thought the risk of or threat of spread infection of
coronavirus in nursing homes was, quote, very unlikely.
The government said that's not fair. That that was taken out of context because at the time that those comments were made, there were no cases of
coronavirus or no known cases but what has become very clear is that nursing homes are very much now the epicenter of the coronavirus as it
continues to spread.
An estimated 40 percent of coronavirus deaths up in this period between March 2nd and May 1st took place in care homes. That's a huge amount and
there's accusations from people that worked in care homes that there's not been sufficient PPE. That people, elderly residents that had symptoms of
the virus were turned away from hospitals because that was the NHS hospital policy and with some argument of good reason and to protect those hospitals
from the sort of inundation.
But, of course, what happened then is that those elderly people went back to their care homes and spread the virus to the entire care home.
So, this has been a huge disaster both in terms of the cost of human life but also in terms of PR for this government and it is something the prime
minister has said he bitterly regrets and will I'm sure continue to have to try to defend and improve upon.
GORANI: Yes, and there are also some questions about how safe it is to send kids back to school in any phase two reopening in the United Kingdom,
with questions about how to keep the teaching staff and the administrative staff as well in this country.
WARD: That's right. So essentially a group of unions have come together and said that they're not comfortable with the conditions that had been
laid for the return of some students beginning June 1st in primary schools across Britain. It would just be several classes in those primary schools,
but these unions are saying is that there's always the risk that infection would be spread to teachers, it will be spread from students potentially to
siblings, to relatives, to parents and then can make a return into wider communities.
And what they have come up with is a list of demands basically saying they would like to have increased PPE, that they'd like to have autonomy in
local schools to be able to shut down if there is a cluster detective, and more broadly speaking that they don't want to see what the government is
currently planning, which is from June 1 to essentially stagger in more and more classes in those primary schools.
[10:35:08]
They say they don't want to see that happened until there is an effective tests and trace scheme implemented.
The government is saying essentially that this is scare-mongering, although the education secretary did write an editorial in "The Daily Mail" saying
that he has called a meeting with those union leaders, with scientific experts to try to explain the government's reasoning for proceeding with
this, Hala.
GORANI: But, I mean, you have some Scandinavian countries that have managed to kind of reintroduce children into the school system.
And when unions asked for more PPE, what do they mean exactly? I mean, this isn't really going to change until we have a vaccine, completely how kids
are, you know, educated and integrated into schools, into the classroom itself.
WARD: One hundred percent, 100 percent. And there's really strong, you know, evidence as well that children are suffering enormously as a result
of this pandemic, as a result of isolation, children who have special needs, particularly children who are in socially disadvantage backgrounds
who rely on school lunches for example.
And there's a lot of evidence to support the government's proposition basically that especially with younger kids, they really need to get back
to school for their mental health.
But I think what you're seeing here more broadly speaking, Hala, is a sort of lack of trust in the government, from a lack of workers who feel when
they look at the broader picture of how the government has handled this crisis, they don't feel comfortable that all the rest have been taken into
account, that all the data has been combed over, and they don't feel that there's been a sort of consistent policy that has been essentially
productive and helpful to keeping people safe in the long run.
GORANI: Yes. There's been a lot of criticism directed at this government for sure since the beginning of the pandemic. Thanks very much, Clarissa
Ward, our chief international correspondent, covering that story.
And joining me now is Dr. Layla McCay. She's the director of international relations for the NHS confederation.
Thanks fore being with us, Dr. McCay, if you can hear me.
DR. LAYLA MCCAY, DIRECTOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, NHS CONFEDERATION: I can, hello.
GORANI: Great, thank you for being with us.
Let me ask you first about these care home figures because they are staggering. The government is saying 12,526 deaths overall in care homes
across the country. There was a "Reuters" analysis, though, that puts the number of excess deaths in care homes in the eight weeks to the May 1st,
that 20,000.
So there a is real possibility here that the number of care home deaths is actually a lot higher than the official figure. What's your -- what's your
reaction to that?
MCCAY: I think it's very concerning. I think in the beginning as the COVID pandemic started, everybody was focused on the acute hospital setting. And
really it's taken a bit longer to realize that the battle ground right now is really moving to those care homes.
GORANI: Yeah. But in the early days of the pandemic, the criticism is that some of these hospitals discharged elderly patients that may have had other
issues that needed dealing with or may have been infected with the COVID virus without testing them. And they're the ones who then spread the
illness to care homes. That it was essentially irresponsible to do -- to do this.
Is this something you agree with?
MCCAY: It's really hard to know what the system was that has led to these care homes having these problems. And I think it's a bit early to really
start pointing fingers. Really what we're trying to do at the moment is focus on the problem, figure out how can we best support these care homes
to reduce infection and keep both staff and patients safe. That's the top priority for everyone here at the moment.
GORANI: Keir Starmer, the leader of the opposition in this country confronted the Prime Minister Boris Johnson about the early guidance given
to care homes and their staff. I just want our viewers to listen to this exchange from prime minister's questions on Wednesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, LEADER OF U.K. LABOUR PARTY: Mr. Speaker, in a speech on Sunday, the prime minister said that we need to rapidly reverse the awful
epidemic in our care homes. But earlier this year and until the 12th of March, the government's own official advice was -- and I'm quoting from it
-- it remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home will become infected. Yesterday's ONS figures showed that at least 40 percent of
all deaths from COVID-19 were in care homes.
[10:40:02]
Does the prime minister accept that the government was too slow to protect people in care homes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prime Minister?
BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: No, Mr. Speaker. It wasn't true that advice said that. And actually we brought the lockdown in care homes ahead
of the -- of the general lockdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So let me ask you, Dr. McCay, it's not about pointing fingers. It's about pointing the people who made those decisions accountable. And in
March, it was widely known that the most vulnerable people when it comes to COVID were the elderly.
Were they not protected enough?
MCCAY: It's really hard to say. I think we have this challenge that this is a new disease and everybody has been trying to figure what to do. But
what certainly is clear is that there needs to have been more focus on care homes, there needs to be increasing focus on care homes now, there's needs
to be more investment, and we need to figure out how to solve this challenge.
Certainly, we need to start that as soon as we possibly can. That is in progress. There has been investment. At the end of the day, for many years
in many countries, including the U.K., care homes have been the Cinderella of the health and care systems and, really, this is the time that our eyes
are being focused on this critical area that it matters so much if we get it right and thinking how do we get this right? How do we support care
homes now and the future.
GORANI: And what is --but what is the solution? What is the solution? It's coming late, don't you think? I mean after potentially 20,000 vulnerable
elderly people have died of this potentially? Isn't it late to start thinking now about how to come up with a strategy?
MCCAY: There's been a strategy all along but an evolving strategy and this has to be something that's been thought about from day one. We've been
increasing and increasing the focus on it in our country. But absolutely, more focused is needed.
GORANI: Uh-huh. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Layla McCay. We really appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us on
CNN.
MCCAY: Thanks.
GORANI: All right. So we are going to go to where? Where are we going? We're going to a break. All right. We are.
Coronavirus cases are soaring in Russia. We'll talk about that but there's a very low death toll. So low some say it is impossible. A look at how
those numbers are being reported, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back.
Once again, Russia is reporting more than 10,000 new coronavirus cases in just 24 hours. Cases have been mounting there at a rate of more than 10,000
a day for two weeks now.
[10:40:03]
With numbers like that, critics are questioning how the government's official death toll is slow. The official overall death toll is still 639.
Russian officials are pushing back against the accusation that they are underreporting coronavirus deaths.
Our apologies, slight technical problem.
Our Matthew Chance looked into how the country is calculating its figures.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across Russia, it's become a common sight. Victims of this awful pandemic
buried by mask figures in hazmat suits as the bereaved watch helplessly from a safe distance. But one of the most pressing questions has been why,
with the second highest number of coronavirus infections in the world, is the death toll in Russia been so low?
Just a fracture of other badly affected states. We now know one factor may be the way that Russia counts its stead.
Health authorities in Moscow, the epicenter of the outbreak, have now acknowledged as much, saying up to 60 percent of suspected coronavirus
deaths have been listed as other causes like heart failure, stage four cancers, and other incurable diseases.
Only deaths, directly linked by autopsy to coronavirus, it says, are registered as pandemic fatalities. For months, critics have accused the
Kremlin of a nationwide cover-up and of silencing attempts to expose the grim reality of the pandemic, especially by medical workers at the front
line.
Doctors are contacting us from hospitals where people with the coronavirus are actually being sent, she says. But instead of honestly saying this, the
authorities are calling them patients with pneumonia, and acute respiratory viral infections.
Recent data indicating sharp rises in April deaths has fueled suspicions. But health officials deny manipulating the numbers, the country's deputy
prime minister offering a clinical explanation by video conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TATYANA GOLIKOVA, RUSSIAN DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I would like to point out that a decrease in pneumonia among the affected,
almost 9 fold between the onset of the illness to hospitalization, allowed us to have low mortality rates in Russia, which today are 7.4 times lower
than the world's average.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Russian health officials say their methods are unlike other countries, and described their numbers as exceptionally precise. A few
doubts that it is at least partly true.
Matthew Chance, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Normally, there are six seats in the new world, there will only be three chairs and nobody will be able to be within six feet of
any of the three customers that are playing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: CNN gets an exclusive look inside a revamped Caesars Palace as it awaits the green light to once again roll the dice.
And the E.U. is looking to reopen some of its internal borders later this summer to encourage tourism but not every member is happy with that plan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back.
Nevada, the U.S. state of Nevada has begun reopening as its coronavirus cases there subside.
[10:50:02]
Well, Las Vegas casinos haven't opened up just yet. They're making some big changes to the gaming floors.
CNN's Kyung Lah got an exclusive look at one of those makeovers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY RODIO, CEO, CAESARS ENTERTAINMENT: It's very eerie and said, and this place normally would have so much energy and so much excitement going on.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Caesars Palace in the dark because of the coronavirus.
(on camera): You can hear our voices echoing through the lobby.
RODIO: Yes, you don't hear that echo because it's muffled because of all the bodies and all the sound and activity.
LAH (voice-over): There is not a soul here, something the iconic casino has never experienced in its 54 year history says Tony Rodio, CEO of
Caesars Entertainment.
(on camera): You're talking about every single day it was operational.
RODIO: Every single day, every single second. There weren't locks to lock the front door. It was really tough in the beginning and there was so much
uncertainty and how long this was going to last. And we're starting to see some movement.
LAH (voice-over): As Nevada moves to reopen parts of its economy, Caesars is making changes across the casino floor.
RODIO: This is the typical configuration for blackjack style games. Normally, there are six seats. In the new world, there will only be three
chairs and nobody will be able to be within six feet of any of the three customers that are playing.
LAH (on camera): This looks like it's a little less than six feet. I mean, are you -- is that the goal?
RODIO: I think that you're real -- if not at 6 feet, you're close to 6 feet. You're certainly not face to face.
LAH: This is a craps table.
RODIO: Correct. In the new world with social distancing, we're going to limit it to three on a side.
LAH: A bunch of people come because it's an exciting game, but what do you --
RODIO: Between the dealers, supervisors, security, we're going to limit it to three on each side and they have to be -- anybody else has to be 6 feet
away.
We will be deactivating every other slot machine and removing the stool from the game.
A customer can't even stand here and play this game because the game is not even active. So, we will do that throughout the whole floor.
LAH (voice-over): In addition, a video released to Caesars workers the public will use electronic sprayer. They'll disinfect dice, slot machines
and elevator banks. Workers will be required to wear masks and have their temperatures taken. But guests, while encouraged to wear masks, are not.
Casino workers have already raised concerns about returning to the Vegas Strip.
(on camera): For people who say, can I be 100 percent sure I won't get sick coming in here, is that something you can say to your customers?
RODIO: I don't know anybody in the country that could say that to anybody under any circumstance, and I'm a casino operator. So I don't pretend to
know everything about an infectious disease, especially one as contagious as this. So, all I can do and ask of my team is to listen to the experts.
LAH: Are you ready for people to come in?
RODIO: Oh, my gosh, yes. I'm ready. Our staff's ready, our team's ready. Our customers are ready.
LAH: This is what it looks like outside Caesars Palace. People would normally be getting out of their taxis, getting out and walking up the
stairs. All of this would be filled with limos and umbers, and there's nothing. What that's meant of employment, is that of their 60,000 worldwide
staff says Caesar's entertainment, they've had to furlough 90 percent of workers.
Kyung Lah, CNN, Las Vegas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, European countries are looking to reopen their border soon hoping to offset some of the tourism losses after lockdowns have stopped
travel completely.
It has proposed plans to allow border reopening between countries with low infection rates calling them green corridors. Germany and Austria already
ordered five border crossings between the two countries. Italy's prime minister called these green corridors the destruction of the European
single market. He said if bilateral agreements were approved, Italy would leave the union.
Joining us now from Salzburg, Austria, is CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen.
So talk to us first before these warnings that doing, that implementing the green corridors could hurt the E.U. How does it work between two countries
like Germany and Austria?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hala, it seems to be working fairly well actually between Germany and Austria. I was at
two border crossings throughout the course of the day and there's still checkpoints that are in place. People that come across and have to give a
reason why they're coming across but there are a lot more people that are able to get across the border than there were before.
And there's some places that we went to that were completely closed off before this and now aren't able to get across. So you do see that that's
happening. At the same time, the Austrians police that we have been speaking to said of course all of the hygiene measures still need to be
kept in place. People need to wear masks. People need to say why they're going across the border.
But certainly a lot more people are able to get across the border than have been before. And I think Austria and Germany, we mentioned this a little
bit before, they're some what trail blazers in all of this and trying this reopening.
[10:55:05]
Both of them agreed they want to reopen the border by June 15th and they're edging toward that. The border controls are becoming less. The border
guards are becoming a lot more lenient than they were before, and the two countries are saying, look, if the pandemic situation allows they want to
move towards getting back to some form of tourism also.
Now, Austria today is opening up a little bit as well with restaurants being allowed to open from today. They say that they're very happy but of
course especially a town like why I'm right here, Salzburg needs tourism for the many restaurants here to survive in the long-term and that's
something where they say they really look forward to this June 15th deadline.
At the same time, and this is something that we have also just heard as well, it is very difficult between other countries like between Germany and
Austria, you can open the border but the two countries have virtually the same pandemic situation.
It hasn't hit them as hard as for instance Italy but the border between Italy and Austria, those countries aren't even close to reopening that
border and that's certainly something that is a problem for the free movement of people here in the European Union, which is, of course, a
staple and the bedrock of the European Union -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes and also, Italy saying hang on these green corridors are excluding other countries with higher infection rates. This is the end of
the single market. A country like Italy saying we'll walk if you implemented this on a wide scale?
FREDERIK: Yes. And Italy obviously in general has a government that was quite skeptical of the European Union before this pandemic began but Italy
is also a country that really relies too a great deal on tourism. They have a strong industrial sector of Italy but tourism is of course something that
is very important and Italy has been very hard hit by the pandemic.
And so, for them, they believe, the Italian government believes it would be unfair for other countries to sort of have bilateral agreements to have, as
they put it, some form of favoritism as far as the travel concern.
But, of course, on the other hand, you can have the pandemic situation where if it's not safe to travel across the border and the European Union
is saying, and the European Union also put forward certain criteria and then it simply isn't possible and it is a very, very difficult decision and
a very dicey walk the E.U. is on right now trying to establish tourism which is a giant sector here on the continent and at the same time making
sure that it is safe and it is fair for the member countries, Hala.
GORANI: OK. Fred, thank you very much.
Much more to come in the next hour, I'll be speaking to the COVID-19 special envoy for the World Health Organization, David Nabarro. That chat
is ahead. Stay with us.
END
