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U.S. May Abandon Its Contribution to WHO; President Trump Taking the Drug He Touts; Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell and U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin to Testify on CARES Act; Sweden's Price in Absence of Lockdown; Denmark Easing Restrictions; Brazil Has Third Highest COVID-19 Cases Worldwide; Italy's Elderly Population Almost Wiped Out; Trump Threatens New Tariffs on China; U.S. Reopening Coast to Coast; UAE to Switch On Arab World's First Commercial Nuclear Power Plant; Can Dogs Smell COVID-19 in Humans? Aired 10-11a ET
Aired May 19, 2020 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST (voice-over): Hello and welcome to CNN's continuing coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. I'm Hala Gorani in London.
This hour, the World Health Organization approves an inquiry into the pandemic as President Trump threatens to permanently pull the U.S. out of
the organization.
Also this hour, the chairman of the Federal Reserve in America is in front of Congress this hour with a backdrop of a historic economic collapse.
And India and Bangladesh brace themselves for the strongest storm ever recorded in the Bay of Bengal.
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GORANI: Lots of questions about the World Health Organization over the last several months. Well, the organization itself approved a global
inquiry into the pandemic response.
The resolution was approved without objection, just a few hours ago, at the WHO's world health assembly, day two of that gathering. It is virtual this
year. It happened just a few hours after the American president Donald Trump threatened to defund the WHO permanently.
He posted his warning letter to the director general of the organization on Twitter, saying, the organization must demonstrate independence from China.
China responded to that a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The U.S. letter is full of vagueness. It tries to mislead the public to smear China and shift blame
away from its own incompetent response.
Currently COVID-19 is spreading in the U.S. The most pressing task is solidarity and cooperation to save lives. We urge a few U.S. politicians to
stop the blame game and together defeat the virus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, President Trump turned some heads, even caused some jaws to drop, when he announced unexpectedly that he's been taking the anti-malaria
drug hydroxychloroquine. He's previously touted it as a treatment for the novel coronavirus, despite no proof that it works and warnings of its
potential danger.
We're going to talk about all of these developments with Joe Johns at the White House today and Ivan Watson who is in Hong Kong with news from the
world health assembly and the resolution to investigate the pandemic.
There is a resolution to look into the origin of the pandemic. Also I imagine reaction to what the president of the United States has threatened,
which is to permanently defund the WHO and perhaps even pull out of the organization altogether, Ivan.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Two completely contradicting messages.
The U.S., which helped build the U.N. system and the WHO in the aftermath of World War II, threatening to permanently stop funding the WHO. And
President Trump threatening that if there aren't dramatic reforms in 30 days, he could reconsider membership entirely to that organization.
And then China coming in, wholeheartedly defending the WHO and Xi Jinping, instead of sending a letter to the organization blasting it, he gave a
speech at the opening of the world health assembly, via video conference, in which he pledged $2 billion over two years to help it fight coronavirus.
And as we heard earlier in your segment, from the spokesperson for the Chinese foreign ministry, they are repeating a line we have been hearing in
past weeks from Beijing, accusing the Trump administration of trying to distract from its own failings at home, dealing with the coronavirus
pandemic by scapegoating China, scapegoating the WHO.
GORANI: Ivan, thank you very much for that update.
Joe Johns at the White House, I want to first ask you about that the U.S. president has threatened to do.
How likely is it?
Is this just heated rhetoric or is it likely that the president will follow through on this threat, defund the WHO permanently and withdraw from the
organization altogether?
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: We're in a political environment right now, as you know. November is the elections here in the
United States. The president has gotten a lot of people, who are telling him that he needs to do this.
A lot of people are critics of the WHO in his party and on his side of the political equations here in Washington. So I don't think this is
necessarily an idle threat.
[10:05:00]
JOHNS: This president has also shown that he is highly critical and highly suspicious of international organizations like the WHO, including the
United Nations; in fact, the World Trade Organization.
So probably not an idle threat from the president. Of course, he has left the door open for the WHO to do something to give him a way out, in other
words. And what he said is he wants to see substantial changes in the way the World Health Organization does things.
He did not specify in his letter what those substantial changes might be. We do know he asked for an investigation essentially. He's also accused the
organization of political gamesmanship as well as suggesting that the organization cease with its fawning and deferential treatment of China,
which he himself did in the early days of the pandemic.
So there may be things to answer for here but at the end of the day it is probably a political calculation, Hala.
GORANI: Yes, we're seeing some real shifts in real time, in accelerated time, in fact, with China pledging a whole lot more money to the WHO, just
as the president is threatening to withdraw.
Let's talk a little bit about what the president said yesterday, which was kind of a shocker, kind of a bomb that he dropped there, that he has in
fact been taking hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malaria drug or a drug used to treat autoimmune disorders like arthritis and lupus to shield himself from
COVID. Talk to us about that.
JOHNS: An unproven drug as to coronavirus, of course. The president has been touting this drug for weeks now. He stopped for a period; many of us
were asking and wondering why. Now he's back on to it, saying he's been taking it for a week or two on a daily basis.
And he's really sending a signal here that people in the medical professions don't like at all, because they say it is dangerous to tell the
public about this.
Nonetheless, the president has gone forward with this confusing message.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS (voice-over): A stunning announcement from President Trump, saying he's taking daily doses of hydroxychloroquine, despite multiple studies
concluding it does not help treat the coronavirus and at least one showing it could cause heart problems.
TRUMP: Hydroxychloroquine, right now, yes. Couple of weeks ago started taking it. Because I think it is -- I heard a lot of good stories. If it is
not good, I'll tell you right. I'm not going to get hurt by it.
JOHNS (voice-over): Trump said he asked his physician whether it was a good idea to take the drug as a preventative measure. Overnight, the White
House doctor sending this memo, mentioning Trump's personal military valet's positive test earlier this month without explicitly linking it to
why the president began taking hydroxychloroquine.
Writing, "We concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweigh the relative risks."
Trump's claim he's taking daily doses comes after weeks of promoting the anti-malarial drug without proof it works.
TRUMP: So we know that if things don't go as planned, it is not going to kill anybody. Hydroxychloroquine, try it. If you like. What do you have to
lose?
JOHNS (voice-over): The president often going against the advice of his own medical experts, like defying CDC guidelines in March saying he would
continue to shake hands.
TRUMP: You can't be a politician and not shake hands.
JOHNS (voice-over): Trump refusing to wear a face covering even while touring this mask manufacturer in Arizona.
And at a press conference in the Rose Garden last week, as many White House staffers looked on wearing them.
TRUMP: In the case of me, I'm not close to anybody.
JOHNS (voice-over): He's also mused loud about other ideas like using disinfectants.
TRUMP: I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. Is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside
or almost a cleaning.
JOHNS (voice-over): Still, President Trump downplaying the lack of evidence hydroxychloroquine works.
TRUMP: Here we go. Are you ready?
Here's my evidence. I get a lot of positive calls about it.
JOHNS (voice-over): But the FDA says the drug carries risks and should not be used outside a hospital or clinical trial.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: As the president, he can get tested and checked out and get EKGs and stuff like that.
But what about everybody else?
The message is very clear, don't take this. We don't have evidence that it works, it could be harmful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: So there is more reporting to be done on this. Especially about the timing.
[10:10:00]
JOHNS: Because apparently the president started taking hydroxychloroquine right around the time the press secretary for the vice president as well as
a member of the president's military valet corps tested positive for coronavirus. We reached out today to the secretary, the press secretary for
the White House to get more information on that and she couldn't provide any. Back to you.
GORANI: All right. All right. Interesting with so many doctors saying this is not a medication that has been proven effective against COVID. Thanks,
Joe Johns.
I'll be speaking to a doctor next hour who will be telling us that hydroxychloroquine in fact can be dangerous, it can be dangerous because it
can cause heart rhythm problems, especially for an older man like Donald Trump. He's 73 years old.
Right now U.S. officials are on Capitol Hill to give their first report on the nation's economic response to the COVID-19 pandemic. The Federal
Reserve chairman Jerome Powell and the Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin will soon testify on the stimulus programs applied by the $2 trillion CARES
Act.
The act was passed two months ago to support the economy and businesses struggling under stay-at-home measures. Criticism has been mounting,
though, because a government report revealed a huge chunk of that money has not been spent.
Let's bring in -- by the way, what you're seeing are essentially live images of the Capitol, not the floor of the Senate floor readying itself
for testimony, it's all happening virtually. Julia Chatterley is live in New York.
What could Jerome Powell -- what could the Federal Reserve do at this stage to try to continue to stimulate the economy when it used so many of the
tools available to it over the last several years already?
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: It is an important question, Hala, and Jay Powell said all the way along we're not out of ammunition. They already put
up trillions of dollars, remember.
I think if he were asked that question, he would frame it more delicately. He would say, look, we have the firepower to do more but whatever we do, it
is lending. It is not spending.
And it is over to Congress to look at some of the gaps that still exist, look at how much money hasn't yet of the near $3 trillion that have been
stumped up for here, hasn't gotten in the hands of ordinary people.
And how does what we got already need to be tweaked, plus what extra is done. I think the onus between the two guys on Capitol Hill today talking
is on Steven Mnuchin, is on Congress to do more, rather than the Federal Reserve.
GORANI: And why are stocks going up?
What is -- where do stock -- do investors in the stock market find reasons to be hopeful at this stage?
CHATTERLEY: It is such a great question. If you look at the level of stock markets, they're being lifted by trillions of dollars of cash. I have been
wading through pages and pages of all the operations and the support mechanisms that the Federal Reserve has put in place, that's the first
thing.
But we also have to be a little bit cautious looking at the top line level of these markets. If you look beneath the surface, Amazon is up 20 percent,
30 percent this year. Look at the big banks like JPMorgan, they're down.
The banks are a better reflection of the fundamentals and challenges we have seen already for these economies but also the challenges as we bridge
time to hopefully get us to a vaccine. So just looking at the top level of stocks doesn't really tell you what is going on beneath the surface. And
there are winners and losers clearly.
GORANI: Thanks very much, Julia. We'll see you later and we'll be speaking to a top economist here in London, Steven King (ph), a little bit later in
the program to ask him for his take.
And you're seeing Steve Mnuchin there, the Treasury Secretary of the United States testifying before a Senate committee virtually over Zoom or WebEx,
I'm not sure which software he's using. We will tell you what emerges from that testimony, the Federal Reserve chairman as well, as we were discussing
with Julia, will also be testifying.
Coming up, Sweden has resisted entering a full lockdown, unlike many of its neighbors, but has it paid a higher price than others to stay open?
I'll be speaking with the Swedish foreign minister coming up.
Plus, after more than two months, family members can finally hold funerals for the elderly in Northern Italy. More on the COVID-19 massacre that swept
through nursing homes. Stay with us.
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[10:15:00]
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GORANI: Welcome back.
Sweden experienced its deadliest month in almost 30 years last April with a coronavirus death rate much higher than many of its neighbors. More than
30,000 people have been infected so far and the country has seen almost 3,700 deaths.
Unlike other European nations, Sweden hasn't implemented a full lockdown. It kept schools open throughout, businesses open, though it did obviously
encourage social distancing and other measures to try to slow the progression of the pandemic.
Joining me now is Ann Linde, Sweden's foreign minister from Stockholm.
Thank you for being with us. I know you get this question a lot but I'll ask it again, because the figures -- the latest figures we have suggest
that your country really did suffer a much higher death rate than your neighbors at almost 3,700.
Do you still believe Sweden's approach to the pandemic was the right one?
And if so, why?
ANN LINDE, SWEDISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Hala, nice to be here. Actually, yes, we believe that the strategy has been working. We have the goals as most
other countries, that is to save lives and to get the healthcare system to work, even though it is very, very tough for all those working there.
But where we have not been able to succeed is in the elderly care. And the average person who dies is 81 years old. And we have 90 percent of the
death is among the elderly, unfortunately. We're trying to do our best.
But otherwise, we think our strategy has been working. It is a long-term strategy. It depends on the social distancing and the public health also
for many years to come.
GORANI: But when you say it is working, it is still about 10 times the death rate of Norway. That has to be for you not a successful outcome,
after all.
LINDE: Well, I think you cannot actually look into two countries and say that this is the comparison. Because you can take any other country and see
the death tolls vary. We think that we have higher death tolls because of different reason.
For example, unfortunately, just when the pandemic broke out, we have spring break in Sweden, meaning more than 20,000 people went to Italy and
Spain and Belgium and other countries when they didn't know that there was the virus. And then they came back to Sweden.
We also know that even if we have legally binding measures in our elderly care center, we have managed to keep the virus out of the elderly home and
nursing home and that's our -- where we have not succeeded. And that could be because we have a lot of precarious works.
[10:20:00]
LINDE: And we have not been able to get the medical equipment to the people who work in the elderly care, even if we ban early on any visit to
the elderly home.
GORANI: Indeed, when you mention a comparison between Sweden and other countries, you could also conceivably compare your death rate to the U.K.,
where we're way above 30,000 with really just an absolute devastation in some care homes.
I want to ask you about the World Health Organization, with Donald Trump, the U.S. president, threatening to permanently suspend funding, even
threatening to pull the U.S. altogether out of the World Health Organization.
How do you react as the Swedish foreign minister to this?
LINDE: Well, actually, I think that's a bad idea, especially if you do it now in the midst of the pandemic crisis. We need to have cooperation. And
the World Health Organization is actually doing their best, they are doing a good job in a lot of sense.
Actually when I had a long talk with secretary of state Pompeo, I asked the U.S. to refrain from doing this. Unfortunately I was not very successful in
this. But we don't agree with this move.
GORANI: Yes. So you asked the secretary of state Pompeo not to suspend funding permanently, not to leave the organization as a member state?
You asked this of the U.S. secretary of state?
LINDE: Yes, I did, because I think that we need to cooperate and the United States are very, very valuable partner in this fight and in this
organization. And it would be bad thing if United States leaves both for the organization as such and for our cooperation.
We are agreeing with the United States that there need to be accountability in the WHO. We don't think it is the right time in the midst of a pandemic.
And we need to have all our forces, we need to concentrate on finding the pandemic. And after that we go to the accountability, which, of course, has
to come.
GORANI: Yes.
And what was the response when you requested this of the secretary of state, what did he tell you?
LINDE: Well, of course, he told me that the view of the United States is, of course, that they are not very happy with the work of the World Health
Organization and it is up to them what they do. But, for us, we would very much like the United States to stay in.
GORANI: Let me ask you about the E.U. approach to pandemic relief because some argued that if Brexit didn't deal an existential blow to the E.U.,
this pandemic might be, you know, essentially threatening the cohesiveness, the integrity of the zone even more because you had some European countries
complain that Germany and other countries and the E.U. didn't come to their aid early on.
Now borders are going up to protect against the infection and still this is, you know, not necessarily the idea, the identity of the E.U., which is
to have a borderless free travel.
What do you -- are you concerned that this could be an existential threat to the E.U., this pandemic?
LINDE: In no way I think it is an existential threat. But it would be fair to say there is strains on the cooperation and there's always a risk of
fragmentation. There are forces, political parties, that don't want those to have a very close European Union cooperation.
And also forces outside European Union who like to undermine the cooperation. And I think that even if there has been a lot of pressure on
the cooperation now, we will carry through.
And I think we're doing better now than we did in the beginning because in the beginning there was kind of a gut reaction, just to look at your own
best interests. There was a restriction for export, which meant that we couldn't have medical equipment going around, for example, Swedish
ventilators.
But now I think it has gone better. But the truth is that it is beginning and it will take time for the organization to heal afterwards when this is
over.
(CROSSTALK)
[10:25:00]
GORANI: All right. Swedish foreign minister, Ann Linde, thank you for joining us on CNN.
Neighboring Denmark is seeing a dramatic drop in its infection rate. On Monday it recorded its smallest rise in new cases in a couple of months.
Total cases in the country of 6 million stands at just over 11,000. It's now lifting lockdown restriction on restaurants, bars and malls.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen explains why Denmark has been able to move to normality so quickly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Denmark is easing some restrictions put in place to combat the novel coronavirus. As
of this week, bars, restaurants and cafes are allowed to open again. Shopping malls also allowed to open again as well. And professional sports
will soon be played.
However there aren't going to be any spectators in the stands. Now Denmark is considered a role model here on the European continent. But around the
world, because it went in a lockdown very early on and also shut its borders very early on.
And is now able to get out of that lockdown and ease those restrictions pretty quickly as well. The other unique thing about Denmark is that they
never really believed in wearing masks in public and also only started mass testing for coronavirus fairly late.
However, what they do believe in is washing hands very often and sanitizing and social distancing, of course, as well. That is clearly something that
has worked for this country. The amount of coronavirus cases really low here in Denmark, as is the death toll as well -- Fred Pleitgen, CNN,
Copenhagen, Denmark.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Brazil now has the third highest number of confirmed cases in the world, following the U.S. and Russia. On Monday alone, the country reported
647 deaths and more than 13,000 new cases in just 24 hours.
The death toll for Brazil is up to nearly 17,000 people. That is more deaths than any other Latin American country. Shasta Darlington is in Sao
Paulo, Brazil, with more on the situation there.
And also a president who doesn't seem to be taking this seriously at all, Shasta, just holding big rallies and, you know, not practicing social
distancing.
So is that -- is he sort of setting the tone for the country?
Is that one of the reasons potentially that the infection rate is so much higher?
SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are a number of reasons; definitely the mixed message is part of the problem. You
had a number of big cities in quarantine since March, with local governments, governors and mayors trying to do the right thing.
At the same time, you had the leader on the national stage talking about this being "a little flu" and setting his own example by often going out
without masks, holding these rallies as you pointed out.
But another big problem is just that because this country has been in quarantine for so long now, so many people, especially those who work in
the informal sector, just say they can't afford to do this anymore. They have to get out and start making some money.
So you're seeing a lot of pressure on the poor northeast, the poor north, the favelas in the urban centers, where people who were sheltering at home
initially are now back out on the street trying it make ends meet.
You also see a lot of flippant response, well, OK, you know, we tried that, now we're just going to go back to life as normal. Because this is such a
huge country and places like Sao Paulo, where 90 percent of intensive care beds are actually already full, you still get that sense that some people
don't understand what is going on.
And there is definitely agreement across the board that this is still the beginning, we are far from peaking. This is a country of 210 million. We
just surpassed the U.K. in the number of confirmed cases over 250,000 and that's going to keep rising.
This is a big country that could end up being right up there even with the United States according to some officials. So this is, again, just the
beginning. We'll see where this goes next.
GORANI: Thank you, Shasta.
Coming up, a tsunami of death. That is how one grieving daughter describes the impact of COVID-19 on Italy's elderly population. We'll show you the
trauma being felt in one region. We'll be right back.
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[10:30:00]
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GORANI: So obviously the situation in Italy in the beginning was absolutely devastating but there are some signs of progress there. The
country is seeing its lowest daily increase in COVID-19 deaths since entering lockdown in March nationwide.
Now more than 32,000 people have died from the virus, nearly half of them in the northern Lombardy region. That's where an entire generation of
elderly people is being decimated by this disease. Ben Wedeman spoke to some of the victims' loved ones.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The lockdown is over in the cemetery of Nembro in northern Italy. Giacomo
Boffelli (ph) succumbed to coronavirus on the 11th of March but only now can family and friends say farewell. Her voice breaking, his daughter,
Nicoletta (ph), says goodbye.
"But we never abandoned you, we never would," she says, "because you'll always be in our hearts."
This community in the foothills of the alps suffered one of Italy's highest per capita death tolls.
"It was as if a tsunami overwhelmed us, especially the oldest people," Nicoletta tells me.
The average age of those who died from coronavirus in Italy is 80. For the town of Nembro the month of March was a month of daily death. You just need
to look at the death notices here.
This woman died on the 7th of March. This man died on the 8th of March. This woman died on the 7th of March. This woman on the 9th of March. This
man on the 7th.
Of Nembro's main nursing homes original 87 residents, 34 died from the virus, the first on the 19th of February, but it took provincial health
authorities more than one month and a half to test anyone in this home.
"The very first swabs done here were the 10th of April" says nursing home director Barbara Codalli (ph).
It's been more than one month since any COVID deaths have occurred here, now relatives can visit their loved ones again at a distance. But the
situation remained precarious for the elderly in Milan's nursing home where the death toll has been described as a massacre.
She's also dying without oxygen because we don't have machines says a nurse who shot this cell phone video. We muffled her voice because she fears for
her job.
As the pandemic intensify the staff at the Palazzolo (ph) nursing home assured Carla Porfirio every day her 85-year-old mother was fine. On
Sunday, April 5th, Carla called the nursing home, they said her mother was on oxygen and morphine.
[10:35:00]
WEDEMAN (voice-over): The next day, Michaela died.
"What is so tragic," says Carla, "for those of us who lost our loved ones, we didn't have the possibility, not just to see them for more than a month
but we also couldn't be close to them in their last days as they suffered. They needed the hand of their loved ones and not just that, we couldn't
even hold funerals." As the pandemic intensified, the Lombardy regional government asked
nursing homes to accept COVID patients, which may have contributed to the high mortality rates in the homes.
The regional government declined our request for comment, responding that the matter is under investigation.
Alessandro Mazzini's (ph) mother, Marissa, was in Milan's Trivulzio care home, she's now in the hospital with coronavirus in critical condition. He
shows me how sections of her care home, marked in red, returned into COVID wards. Alessandro has founded a group demanding an investigation into
nursing homes.
"The elderly," says Alessandro, are part of society with a memory, they gave us life, we can't just throw them away.
In the corner of Milan's main cemetery more than 120 fresh graves, here too, most were old, most were in nursing homes.
This is where the unclaimed dead from coronavirus are buried, unclaimed because many of them had no family, they died alone with no one to mourn
their passing.
Small plastic crosses mark the end of lives lost -- Ben Wedeman, CNN, Milan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: So sad.
The blame game between the U.S. and China over the coronavirus is feeding into fears of a new trade war at a time when the world economy is teetering
on the edge of a global depression.
The trade cease-fire that countries agreed to in January was fragile at best. And now as tensions continue to soar, this time over the World Health
Organization, things are not expected to get better. The U.S. president has been threatening new tariffs on China.
Experts say another trade war is the last thing the global economy needs now and you don't need to be an expert to figure that one out. Let's talk
to one. Joining me from London via Skype is senior economic adviser at HSBC, Stephen King.
Would it be self-defeating for the United States to pick a wider fight with China right now?
How much does it need China for its own recovery?
STEPHEN KING, HSBC SENIOR ECONOMIC ADVISER: Well, trade wars are typically defeating for all those involved. It is a kind of negative sum game, so you
want to try to avoid it from an economic perspective.
Of course it is politics that matters now, not so much economics. The U.S. has become, in one sense, ever more alarmed about the rise of China, both
economically and politically, the fact that China has a completely different political system to the one that the U.S. has and a sense that
perhaps the U.S. is no longer the kind of top dog on its own in the global economic system.
You've got to remember that back when the Berlin Wall came down, the Soviet Union collapsed, the U.S. was the dominant superpower and that was the new
kid on the block who is basically, you know, rivaling the U.S.
GORANI: So how deep will the recession be in the United States, do you believe, as a result of this pandemic?
Because the tens and tens of millions of jobless claims in total since the lockdowns began, I mean, how long would it take for the country to get out
of this slump?
KING: I think the language here, not so much numbers, it is comparisons with the past and the real comparison probably, I'm afraid, to say is with
the Great Depression, a terrible collapse in economic activity and there is every chance we'll see a similar kind of collapse over the next two or
three months.
So massive contraction, off the scale of any we have seen in the post war period. The difference, of course, arguably, is that the financial system
today is healthier than was the case back in the early 1930s; the banking system hopefully is healthier. Asset markets reacted better now than the
1930s.
So the hope that both the U.S. government and governments elsewhere have is that you can somehow put companies into hibernation, furlough workers and
you hope that when you can allow people to go back to almost their normal lives, you can switch everything back on again and go back to something
approaching normality.
So you've got this idea that things are terrible over the next three or four months and hopefully there will be a rebound thereafter.
[10:40:00]
KING: What we don't know is that the degree of scarring, the losses that come through as a consequence of people losing their jobs for quite some
time.
GORANI: Yes, and that's going to be my question because, unlike, let's say, 2008, 2009, here you have economies around the world that were shut
down, you know, voluntarily, in order to stop the spread of the coronavirus.
So once you flip the switch back on, there could be a lag in terms of restarting the economy but arguably you could say that the economy amid
behavior of employers might change, not all furloughed workers would be taken back on, that we could be looking at years and years of pain.
How possible is that?
KING: This is something that no one knows for certain. We have never ever done something like this before. Turning an economy off from back on again.
What I think is safe to say is longer people are out of work for, the more their skills atrophy, they shrink, they disappear.
Many companies may find that either they disappear anyway or the world is different in the future. Think about airlines, for example, even if we get
a return to something approaching normality, will people fly quite in the way they did before COVID-19?
For all these reasons, there may well be scarring. Moreover, when one economy rebounds, there is no guarantee that the other economies that it
trades with will rebound, so there is still losses there.
So New Zealand is a good example. It has got over COVID-19, the first phase of it. But even if it opens up internally, it can't open up externally with
other countries around the world.
GORANI: Explain why stock investment isn't taking a huge nosedive. Yesterday, just the fact that maybe a pharmaceutical company had a
promising vaccine in trials, obviously nowhere near the stage where it can be marketed, and the Dow shot up almost 1,000 points.
Are these investors looking for a reason to buy in when they should instead be careful?
KING: Well, one irony of all this is that central banks understandably have added a huge amount of liquidity into the global economy, printing
money, buying up government bonds and so on.
And that's met with lots of cash sloshing around for investors. When you have cash sloshing around, you've got to find something to do with it. You
buy the stock market or books or whatever it is, you buy something.
And so I think one reason why we have seen this kind of recovery coming in through the stock market, is precisely the central banks have offered
future amounts of liquid into parts of the economy.
The catch with all of this, of course, is that it helps the listed companies, the ones that are on the stock market; it may not be helpful for
the smaller or medium size enterprises, restaurants and so on, that may shut down as a consequence of all this.
So you may end up with a bias towards supporting the big, heavy, large companies and some of the smaller companies end up falling by the wayside.
GORANI: Yes. Stephen King, thanks so much for joining us. Always a pleasure talking to you.
In the United States, the number of coronavirus deaths now tops 90,000. Just as a key coronavirus model slightly lowered its forecast but still
predicts that the virus will kill about 143,000 people by early August, 143,000.
Still, in just a few days, almost every U.S. state will have begun reopening. We have CNN reporters across the country. Let's begin in
California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): I'm Nick Watt in Los Angeles. The governor of California has just eased and tweaked the criteria
that counties are supposed to meet before they're eligible to reopen now; 90 percent of this huge state is apparently ready to begin getting back to
normal.
Fewer than half of the counties have pulled the trigger so far. But among them, those counties around San Francisco that were the first to tell
people in this country to stay home and that was 63 days ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dianne Gallagher in Atlanta. Another plant worker from the JBS beef packing plant in Greeley, Colorado,
has died. CNN profiled this 60-year-old Burmese refugee earlier this month.
She came and worked at the plant for nearly 15 years. According to her family, she had been on a ventilator with COVID-19 since late March, just
one day after her only grandchild, who she never met, was born. She is the seventh meat plant worker from that facility to die.
A corporate worker from JBS Greeley also died, bringing the total to eight. More than 300 employees there have tested positive for COVID-19.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Amara Walker in Atlanta. Ohio governor Mike DeWine isn't happy with some reports he's seen over the
weekend of customers at bars and restaurants not social distancing.
[10:45:00]
WALKER: In response, Monday, he made an announcement that a large contingent of law enforcement officers and health officials will be
conducting safety compliance checks.
Businesses are required to keep parties at least six feet apart and to keep them seated while they're eating and drinking. Violations can lead to
administrative citations that could result in businesses losing their liquor licenses and even criminal prosecution for some business owners.
Bars and restaurants with outdoor services were allowed to reopen on Friday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CRISTINA ALESCI, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: I'm Cristina Alesci in New York. Shopping in an Apple store will be dramatically different as the company
moves to reopen 500 locations that it closed worldwide as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.
The company saying the customers are going to have to wear masks and get their temperature checked. Now so far, the company has reopened 100
locations worldwide with the se changes as well as others, like more frequent deep cleaning and limiting the amount of people in the store.
The company also saying that it will provide dropoff and pickup curbside service at certain locations and a company executive also warned that it
will not hesitate to close down locations if the local conditions warrant.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And we'll have more from the U.S. a little bit later. But first, India and Bangladesh are struggling with coronavirus, too. But now they're
facing a new and potentially disastrous complication.
Take a look at this. This is the strongest storm ever recorded in the Bay of Bengal. We have a live report next. But first, here's the global energy
challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Nuclear power is a controversial energy source. Japan's Fukushima disaster in 2011 raised
safety concerns and, in recent years, several countries have moved away from it, citing both environmental issues and financial costs.
However, its advocates say it has green credentials. Its carbon footprint is much smaller than other energy sources. Now the United Arab Emirates is
the first Arab nation to bet big on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Normally you find nuclear power stations typically in resource scarce countries, countries which don't have energy, Europe, U.S.,
China, India, big energy importers.
So why would it be here?
They don't want to use their own resources, oil and gas resources. They're much better off with something else, like the nuclear plan and not taking
the oil and gas and selling it. And I think that is, in a way, a strategy that to diversify further.
DEFTERIOS (voice-over): Two hours west of Abu Dhabi and close to the Saudi Arabian border, you'll find the Barakah nuclear plant. It's a massive site
with four reactors and when full operational, will provide a quarter of the country's energy needs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is one of the biggest commercial facilities that the country built. This source of energy will provide 25 percent
electricity for the nation, will avoid (INAUDIBLE) 21 tons of CO2 emissions on an annual basis. So that will completely, dramatically change the
footprint from a CO2 (INAUDIBLE).
DEFTERIOS (voice-over): But it comes with a huge price tag, more than $24 billion.
Why then develop nuclear when the UAE has an abundance of oil and the cost of developing solar and wind power has fallen dramatically over the last
few years?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oil and fossil fuel have been used for decades and the hydrocarbon industries, using it everywhere in all life, mobile, plastic,
(INAUDIBLE) car, everywhere. But (INAUDIBLE) used to be, it can be used on just (INAUDIBLE) for electricity. We need global (ph), we need nuclear. We
need fossil fuel to create a basket a portfolio of energies that is resilient from (INAUDIBLE) point of view and also from a common (ph) point
of view.
DEFTERIOS (voice-over): Now in a few weeks, the UAE is expected to switch on the Arab world's first commercial nuclear power plant -- John Defterios,
CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:50:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GORANI: As if dealing with COVID wasn't enough of an issue, 300,000 people are evacuating along the India-Bangladesh border. They're trying to get to
safety ahead of super cyclone Amphan, the strongest storm ever recorded in the Bay of Bengal.
Yesterday, it was packing winds up to 270 kilometers per hour. It is expected to make landfall Wednesday evening. India's disaster response
team, you can see here, is warning people with loudspeakers there, bullhorns, to evacuate. Get out of the way. This is happening near the
Indian city of Calcutta.
(WEATHER REPORT)
GORANI: Still ahead, the U.K. is using man's best friend, human's best friend, all of our best friends, to detect the coronavirus. How dogs are
being trained to sniff out COVID-19. We'll be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:55:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GORANI: Finally, a new way to sniff out COVID-19 potentially. A trial is under way in the United Kingdom to see if six specially trained dogs can
smell the virus before symptoms even appear. CNN's Max Foster has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: This dog is being trained to detect prostate cancer. She is presented with urine samples and rewarded when she
identifies the correct one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good girl.
FOSTER: This dog, is able to identify the odor of malaria sufferers. Their next mission here, is to train dogs to sniff out people infected with
COVID-19.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way we're going to do that is by collecting using face masks and we're asking people to wear this face masks for a few hours
and we carefully collect those. And the other thing we're going to do, is get people to wear nylon socks that sounds a bit strange, but we know from
previous experience, that this is a real way of collecting odors from people in such an easy way to that.
FOSTER: If the training is successful, one of their first deployment is likely to be airports. Where dogs are already used to sniff out drugs and
other contraband's. If they help reopen the travel industry, that could be the boost to international trade. That governments everywhere have been
looking for -- Max Foster, CNN, outside London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: The world famous gondolas of Venice are back in the water. The city's canals were filled with gondoliers wearing protective masks and
gloves on Monday as Italy allowed some businesses to reopen. It is not the look we're used to but, hey, people are out there on the canals and that's
great, getting some of those -- raising some of those tourists that have been in such short supply recently.
I'll be with you on the other side of this break for another hour of special pandemic coverage. Stay with CNN.
[11:00:00]
END
