Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
U.S. Bans Most Arrivals From Hard-Hit Brazil; Bolsonaro Supporters Protest Brazil's Lockdown; Boris Johnson's Chief Adviser Speaks Amid Controversy; Some U.K. Care Homes Struggle Through Crisis; China Vows Countermeasures Against U.S. Over Hong Kong; Trump Goes Golfing As U.S. Death Tool Approaches 100,000; Trump Threatens To Pull Republican Convention From North Carolina. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 25, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and very warm welcome to CNN's continuing coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. I'm Isa Soares coming to you live
from London.
This hour, the U.S. is hitting Brazil with travel restrictions as the number of cases keep on rising. In the United Kingdom, controversy is
engulfing the government. We are expecting to hear from Boris Johnson's Chief Adviser this hour after he was accused of breaching the lockdown.
And China tells the United States to stop pushing its policies in Hong Kong or there will be consequences.
We begin this hour though with the never ending political fallout from the novel coronavirus. Starting May 28th, most non U.S. citizens who have been
in Brazil during the last 14 days, will not be allowed to enter the United States.
Now, Brazil recently edged out Russia to become the world's number two most infected country. Not only are hospitals there really teetering on the
brink of collapse, but so too is the economy. Meanwhile, President Bolsonaro's supporters rallied in the streets over the weekend protesting
the lockdown because of its impact on business. Many others are calling for Mr. Bolsonaro's resignation. The President has repeatedly downplayed the
health risks of COVID-19, saying this just a little cold.
Our Nick Paton Walsh is at cemetery in Manaus where the mayor has launched a rather furious attack on the President. And Nick I know the mayor has had
some stinging words for the President in the past. What do you tell? What are you seeing where you are right now in Manaus?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Isa, let's start with what you're seeing behind me here. Just to give you an idea, so when you
talk about the official numbers in Brazil that they may not be the full picture. These are the number of graves for positive coronavirus victims
who have died.
Just bring the camera around here. Unfortunately, since we've been here we've seen five coffins arrive. Three are simultaneously here now waiting
to go into a mass grave. There's a terrifying scene there actually of a family in quite distressed.
Let's move the camera over here to the broader scene behind me. This large number of graves of those who they suspect may have died from the
coronavirus. An enormous number. 1,500 graves in this cemetery alone, one of a substantial number of cemeteries in Manaus itself.
Why was this city so badly hit? It's unclear. It's so remote, it appears we've got the infection in. And then as the mayor we spoke to said
yesterday, a lot of people here were listening to the President of Brazil Jair Bolsonaro say that it wasn't that serious. That it was just a little
flu.
When he spoke to me it was after Jair Bolsonaro had called him an expletive in a leaked recording of a cabinet meeting. He had criticized the mayor
here for digging these mass grave, calling him a piece of manure is fair to you euphemize here. The mayor was furious in his response.
He called Bolsonaro somebody wants to be a big tater, but was too stupid to make it happen. He said that he was partially responsible for the deaths in
Brazil because of what he'd been saying to play light to disease. And he also said his message for the Brazilian president was that he should shut
up, stay at home and resign.
But this is a town gripped by the enormity of what's happened to it here. And even though grave diggers here have said to us that one day they were
burying 103 people in one single day. There's a floodlight behind me over there actually to show that they were in fact burying at night, it got so
busy. Even still now here we're seeing three coffins being brought at the same time.
Let me just move our camera slightly more in this direction, because you can see here that the grave sadly are not singular holes for each coffin.
There are often four or five possibly more coffins at the same time than they push Earth onto it. Just shows you the scale of the task here of the
grave diggers who've been working quite staggering.
And also staggering too is how remote Manaus, frankly, is. As you know, we say it's in the middle of the Amazon forest here. Not really connected by
roads. Things have to fly in here, and so the virus was flown in, it seems somehow, spread so fast and it's still causing significant damage across
the population. Isa?
SOARES: Truly heartbreaking scenes there from Manaus, Brazil. Nick Paton Walsh there for us thanks very much Nick. And I can tell you just from
covering - having talked about Manaus, there is several pieces on Manaus several weeks ago. The health care system was already on the brink there.
And imagine what the situation is like right now as Nick is painting in that cemetery in Manaus. We'll have more from Nick throughout the next few
hours.
I want to bring in Kylie Atwood, the U.S. State Department in Washington. Kylie do we know at this stage how long this ban between the United States
and Brazil will stay in place for?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY REPORTER: No we don't. National Security Adviser to President Trump yesterday, before this this new policy was made,
officials said that they were planning on it and said they didn't know exactly how long it would last. But they hoped that it would be a short
term change. It would not last for too long.
[11:05:00]
But we have to consider the fact here that the Trump administration has already put restrictions on travel for non-Americans that are coming from
other hotspots around the world, so places like China, Iran and Europe, and that's been a few months now.
So this is not something that necessarily has a specific end date on it, because the United States is trying to control their rate of infections
here at home and that's what the spokesperson of the White House noted when she was asked about this policy yesterday. Saying that they don't want
folks who are traveling from Brazil to the United States to become a new source of infections.
Now, of course, this comes as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in Brazil continues to increase. They are the country with the second highest
rate of confirmed cases, of course, just behind the United States. And so this means that anyone who is a non-American and has been in Brazil for the
last 14 days, cannot come to the United States.
SOARES: Yes. 362,000 cases in Brazil. Manaus, as Nick was just shown there, really the epicenter. Thanks very much Kylie Atwood there.
Now, any moment now the Chief Adviser to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is due to speak at 10, Downing Street amid increasing calls for his
resignation. The growing scandal centers on Dominic Cummings movements during the lockdown in the U.K.
He drove across the country with his family to stay with his parents, while his wife was exhibiting COVID-19 symptoms. That violated restrictions put
in place by Mr. Johnson's government. The Prime Minister is refusing to sack Cummings and insists that he acted responsibly.
Our International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins me now live from Downing Street. Nic do we know at what time exactly Cummings is expected to
speak and what we could hear from him? An apology perhaps?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I'm not sure that an apology is on the agenda. But we don't know what he is going to say. We do
know that he was due to start a few minutes ago it was delayed by an hour.
This is absolutely extraordinary without recent precedent at all, talk in recent decades and decades and decades here that a senior government
adviser should be making a broadcast from the grounds of Downing Street, particularly when the sort of instructions for political advisers is that
they don't make public comment.
So we've just seen in the last few minutes a group of about 10 journalists, some of the sort of British principle political journalists - the real
heavyweights there going in for the press conference, so we can expect some tough questions to be asked by them.
But precisely what Dominic Cummings who's going to say, we don't know. He's facing a huge amount of scrutiny. But the very fact that the Prime Minister
is allowing him to use the premises at Downing Street, stood up so strongly for Dominic Cummings yesterday, saying that he acted legally, responsibly
and with integrity.
And that his decision was a decision on the instincts that any parent or father would have taken about caring for their family. It would seem
unlikely that that position is going to fall. But really we're just waiting. We understood a few minutes ago it would begin. It's been delayed,
now slipping again. We don't know why at the moment. Isa.
SOARES: And Nic, as we wait, I just want to show our viewers two newspapers from different political sides of the political spectrum here. "The Daily
Mail", "What planet are they on?" This is this "Daily Mail." And this is a left leaning "Guardian" here in the U.K. today. " No apology, no
explanation: PM bets all on Cummings".
Explain to our viewers, Nic, around the world, why is the prime minister standing by Cummings? What does he mean for this government? What does it
mean for Boris Johnson?
ROBERTSON: Boris Johnson trusts Dominic Cummings. He has trusted him to help deliver Brexit, because he was key around the messaging, "Get Brexit
done." He was key for Boris Johnson to be elected as leader of the Conservative Party and there as Prime Minister to replace Theresa May. He
was key for Boris Johnson's strategy going into the December elections last year where the prime minister got a majority of 80 in Parliament, a
significant gain.
So he has been very valuable to Boris Johnson politically so far. This seems to be why Boris Johnson stands by him. But what does it mean for the
country. What MPs within Boris Johnson's party are saying is that this messaging by Dominic Cummings by going to his family when you're going to
travelling all this distance in the country against the government guidelines, undermines that government message.
[11:10:00]
And this is almost an understatement. There is a real deep anger in this country that people thought they were in this together that they were all
following the government instructions that they should stay at home not travel, however sick they were, however sick other family members were.
They should not go to second homes across the country or visit other family members.
And people made some hugely difficult decisions, not to attend funerals of dearest, loved ones, very, very tough heartfelt decisions. And in essence,
people feel now that there is one rule for them and one rule, if you're an adviser for the Prime Minister.
I think you have to add to that a layer of dislike that there is for Dominic Cummings' methods and attitudes over the past few years within the
country that he helped deliver Brexit, so you have a 48-52 split in the country there.
But this issue around COVID-19 are not doing following his apparent own instructions and guidance really gets to the heart of this. People are
going through a really hard time for 10 weeks now. They're angry about it.
They're frustrated about it and now it's all focusing on the way that Dominic Cummings has acted, and the way that the Prime Minister is standing
by him. Of course, we don't know what Mr. Cummings was going to say in the next few minutes.
SOARES: Of course, we will wait to hear from Dominic Cummings. But, Nic, you said that Dominic Cummings was valuable for Boris Johnson. Could he
potentially hurt Boris Johnson's credibility at home?
ROBERTSON: Yes, I think, is a very short answer at the moment. Look, Boris Johnson had a majority of 80 when he won the election. That was really on a
tide of people so frustrated about Brexit, they wanted to get it done. The timing was right for the Prime Minister. He was able to plan ahead for that
and get the right strategy in place.
Where the Prime Minister seems to slip up is where things are happening immediately under his feet, slow to respond to COVID-19 with a lockdown,
not enough PPE for their healthcare professionals in the country. The quarantine restrictions that were talked about last week, that are going in
place in a week or so's time, had been heavily criticized. The high number of deaths in care homes around the country.
All of this is sitting on the Prime Minister's head and shoulders, if you will, at the moment from a point of responsibility. There hasn't been an
investigation, an inquiry into all of this so far. But all of this, and add in Dominic Cummings on top of that, costs the Prime Minister political
capital.
He has not been sure footed going through this whole crisis, indeed, himself succumbing to COVID-19 and going to hospital in intensive care and
recovering - coming out and recovering from that. But I think that the criticism that Prime Minister is facing now over this particular issue with
Dominic Cummings is far more incandescent anger across the whole country than we've seen so far.
That people understood that there could be reasons the Government delayed its action for lockdown. Was - did not have the personal protection
equipment in place and all these other issues. But this is something else. This is something that's sort of happening that the Prime Minister could
handle in a different way and isn't.
So, yes, potentially this will cost the Prime Minister. But when would there be an election to test it. We do know in recent polls, however, in
the past few days, that the leader of the opposition has been gaining in the polls, that Prime Minister has been losing in the polls.
That said, however, the Prime Minister still has a margin of about 12 percentage points over the leader of the opposition. But this country is
not anywhere near going to the elections. So perhaps the prime minister feels that he has time to weather what he may feel is a political storm.
SOARES: Yes. Let's see what you hear from him sometime this hour. No wonder you're monitoring. Nic, thank you very much. We'll go back to you as soon
as Dominic Cummings starts to speak.
We do want to stay, though, in the U.K. A nursing home manager tells CNN this stretch has been the worst of her career. Some caregivers say they've
been let down by their government during the crisis, a point that Nick was making there. Our Nina Dos Santos has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY BARKER, CAREGIVER, CHARLTON COURT NURSING HOME: Hi, Mom! Are you OK? There's a virus going around the world.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes.
BARKER: And we have to keep you in your room to protect you.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Becky Barker, the coronavirus has been a double agony. She's a carer at this
nursing home in Leeds, where her mother, Jean, is also a resident.
BARKER: It's just so hard. I just want everything to go back to normal. Washing your hands all the time, changing your PPE all the time, when
you've got it. Panicking about it. It's awful.
DOS SANTOS: For the home's manager, keeping everyone safe is a daily struggle.
ROBOTIC VOICE: We're very sorry. Today's allocation of test kits have been issued.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Only five of Kelly Hopkinson's 62 staff have secured tests.
DOS SANTOS (on camera): How long is that going to last you?
[11:15:00]
KELLY HOPKINSON, MANAGER, CHARLTON COURT NURSING HOME: Probably not until the end of today.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Protective equipment has been hard to access, and she's had to resist pressure to take residents carrying the virus back from
hospital.
Kelly normally deals with three deaths a month, but in April, she lost 19 guests. She says she can't even be sure those who died actually had the
virus, because unless they're admitted to hospital, her residents still aren't getting tested. That means for now, they're confined to their rooms
and visitors banned.
HOPKINSON: I've got residents with capacity signs in the bedroom, crying, saying, Kelly, am I going to die of corona. Have I got it?
And I can't answer them, because they're not testing them. I think the figures that we're seeing on a daily basis, the charts and the graphs that
everybody seems to be obsessed with, I don't think the numbers are accurate at all. This is just the worst time of my entire career.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): More than a quarter of coronavirus deaths in England and Wales occurred at care homes, despite the government originally
saying the risk they faced would be low.
In a statement to CNN, the Department of Health and Social Care said that all care home staff and residents can now be tested, whether they have
symptoms or not. But that's months after the pandemic took hold here and years into a profound crisis in social care.
DOS SANTOS (on camera): Have Britain's elderly been forgotten?
HOPKINSON: Absolutely. I think it's a national tragedy, is what I think.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): About 70 miles away, life is slowly getting back to normal for Joyce and Janet at this home for the elderly with dementia in
Nottingham. Out of isolation, they're having their hair done and picking up the thread of a story which is now theirs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You (inaudible) weren't you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I was.
DOS SANTOS: The community had 13 cases of coronavirus, but no fatalities, thanks to former ICU nurse Maria, who turned this annex into a ward in
hours.
MARIA SPOLLIN, CLINICAL LEAD, SKYLARKS CHURCH FARM CARE: My heart plummeted. Several residents displayed symptoms of the coronavirus, and I
had to move quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you had your cold?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh yes! Yes, I'd forgotten all about it, really.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Many of the residents here don't even remember being ill. But Britain's care sector won't forget how it was left to fend
for itself.
Nina Dos Santos, CNN, Nottingham.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: I take you to China. China's warning U.S. to think twice before pushing further with its policies on Hong Kong. The threat came after
Sunday's massive protest against a proposed national security law in the city.
Now Beijing says, Hong Kong is nobody's business, but China's and it's threatening countermeasures measures if the U.S. "harms China's interests
in Hong Kong." Let's get more from Ivan Watson who joins us now live from Hong Kong.
So, Ivan, yet again, tensions simmering between Beijing and Washington and this time because of Hong Kong.
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. China - the Chinese government is saying that it needs to push through this national security
law for Hong Kong, bypassing Hong Kong's own elected legislature because of protesters here that it describes as terrorists, as separatists and agents
of foreign governments, that it says, pose a threat to China's national security as a whole.
And an example of some of these are, presumably, the 193 demonstrators who Hong Kong police arrested on Sunday when they tried to come out in the
streets to protest against this new national security law. The police say that they were are being charged with things like rioting and illegal
assembly and vandalism.
The Chinese Foreign Ministry and its commissioner here in Hong Kong tried to win at a gathering of foreign diplomats of international business
leaders, tried to explain this new law and tried to reassure very concerned members of these different communities that this would not mean that China
would impose the kind of police state culture that exists in Mainland China here in this former British colony. Take a listen to what he had to say
earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
XIE FENG, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY COMMISSIONER TO HONG KONG: There is absolutely no need to panic or worry that you may be unfavorably impacted.
Do not be intimidated or even misled and exploited by those with ulterior motives. And in particular, do not be a rumor monger yourself or join the
anti-China forces in stigmatizing and demonizing the legislation, still less meddle, obstruct it or provoke confrontation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:20:00]
WATSON: Now, one of the challenges here is that, China and the Hong Kong authorities are basically lumping the entire opposition movement that we've
seen over the course of the last year, into one bucket here, describing them all as terrorists and separatists and agents of foreign governments.
There are radical protesters who have been - I've personally seen committing assault to breaking things, vandalism as well. But there is a
much broader segment of Hong Kong society that is very unhappy with their own appointed leadership.
Carrie Lam, the Chief Executive of Hong Kong who is appointed by Beijing, effectively, only has 27 percent support from Hong Kong surveyed earlier
this month. There is real discomfort here. And also you have the international business community here that is concerned that the rule of
law and an independent judiciary here could be threatened by the introduction of, for example, secret police agencies on the ground here in
this city.
And there is another element which involves the U.S. which is that there's legislation in the U.S. Congress that says if Hong Kong's autonomy is not
maintained from Beijing according to multiple international treaties, that Hong Kong's free trade status with the U.S. government could be lost and
that could whittle away at the freedom of movement and trade that this city has enjoyed, which is different from the arrangements that other countries
have with Mainland China. Isa?
SOARES: Ivan Watson there for us in Hong Kong, 11:21 in the evening. Thanks very much Ivan.
Still ahead right here on the show, U.S. President Donald Trump pays his respects to fallen troops on Memorial Day, but he also takes fire over his
silence on the coronavirus death toll. We'll have the very latest, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: It is Memorial Day in the United States, a time to honor the men as well as the women who paid the ultimate price while serving their country.
But this year the national holiday is even more somber as the COVID-19 death toll inches closer to really a staggering milestone.
Nearly 100,000 people have now died from the virus in the United States. In the last hour. President Donald Trump attended a Memorial Day ceremony at
Arlington National Cemetery - we showed you that live - where he laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.
Meanwhile, the President is facing backlash for failing to mention the grim COVID-19 death toll over the weekend. Instead, he spent his time, as you
can see there, golfing and lashing out at his foes on Twitter.
[11:25:00]
Let's bring in White House reporter Sarah Westwood. She's live for us in Washington. And, Sarah, as we just pointed out, highlighted there, this is
a solemn holiday. The President, however, has been on the attack, even threatening to pull the Republican Convention out of North Carolina.
Explain to us why that is.
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right. Isa, the President, the and RNC, they are pushing on North Carolina in Charlotte where the
convention is set to be held in August, because they want to make sure that that convention can't go forward and that local authorities or state
authorities won't prevent them from having the kind of convention they want, regardless of what is happening with COVID-19 in the country.
Now this did blindside a lot of folks in the state. This is something, obviously, that will have to be worked out. But it comes as you mentioned
after we a weekend a President that was very active on social media, going after his perceived enemies, including former Attorney General Jeff
Sessions.
He also spent time golfing and he has taken criticism for spending that time golfing instead of, for one, focusing on the COVID-19 crisis and also
- as you also mentioned, failing to acknowledge that the U.S. is inching closer to that very sad milestone of 100,000 American deaths here in the
U.S.
So the President today participating in that wreath ceremony and he's now on his way to Baltimore to visit McHenry, that's something, by the way,
that local officials in Baltimore encouraged him not to do, because stay- at-home orders are in place where the President is now traveling right now. Isa?
SOARES: So he's still expected to go to Baltimore. I know officials there are not welcoming him probably with open arms.
WESTWOOD: That's right. And that's because of those stay-at-home orders, because the City of Baltimore is still encouraging its residents to observe
that CDC guidelines suggest people should not gather in groups larger than 10.
Obviously, the President's visit to Fort McHenry is going to cause a group much larger than 10 to form and so that is a violation of the city's
orders. The mayor saying it just makes it more difficult to encourage people to continue to observe those kinds of guidelines when the President
is coming, drawing crowds.
Aides and allies of President Trump had encouraged him to get back on the road to maybe help boost public confidence that things are returning to
normal and to show that - at least amplify his message that he's been trying to push for the past couple of weeks that it's safe for parts of the
country to begin reopening. But that is not the case in his destination today, Isa.
SOARES: Sarah Westwood for us there in Washington. Thanks very much Sarah.
Now, Spain is loosening corona virus restrictions. We're live for you in Madrid next where restaurants and cafes are back in business as the COVID-
19 outbreak there shows signs of slowing down.
And Memorial Day weekend is the start of summer vacation season for most Americans, so what does a trip to the beach look like during the pandemic?
We'll show you that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
SOARES: Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Isa Soares coming to you live from London.
Now, the cities of Madrid and Barcelona, two of Spain's most important metro areas are in a new phase of re-opening after weeks of strict
coronavirus lockdown measures. People there are finally able to eat at restaurants, sitting outside, even houses of worship or resuming services
and some retail stores have opened up.
Now, Spain now has had more than 28,000 COVID deaths and more than 235,000 cases. Al Goodman joins us now live from Madrid to tell us more about the
situation there. And, Al, I imagine where you are perhaps a sense - I know you were a coffee shop, I can see it there - a sense of relief for many.
Are people still feeling slightly uneasy though about going out and having a coffee?
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, not these people behind me, Isa, and the others that we've seen in these neighborhood cafes right here near my
home. We've talked to people who said, yes, it's a little strange to be out.
We talked to some doctors. There is a big hospital near here, who said it was such a relief to be able to go out and have a morning coffee. We talked
to a couple of young women who said they don't usually drink their breakfast coffee out, but they rushed out just so they could try it this
day.
So the people who are trying it are very happy about it. Others are planning to stay away. But it is good news for the restaurants and for this
part of the economy to open up. This is all part of Phase 1. Up to these 10 people who don't live with you who can meet. That's just over half of the
country.
The other half of the country is further along on this Phase 2 which has many more things you can do - restaurant service inside, weddings up to 100
people, all of this in this march towards reopening the country after this terrifically difficult period over these last couple of months of the
coronavirus hitting Spain so hard, taking so many lives, so many people infected.
So the government is doing a gradual reopening. Masks are still required in public if you're close to other people, which I am. And they all are also
announcing this day they plan to reopen Spain for international tourism in July as a way to try to restart that important part of the economy. Isa?
SOARES: Al, talk to me a bit more about their international - that plan for international tourism in July. Apologies I have to interrupt Al, I wanted
to go to Downing Street where we hear Dominic Cummings.
DOMINIC CUMMINGS, BORIS JOHNSON'S CHIEF ADVISER: --clear up confusions and misunderstandings that I can.
In retrospect I should have made the statement earlier. It's many years since I have said anything on television, but I'll do my best to answer
questions after I've explained what happened.
I also should clarify that I'm not here to speak on behalf of the Government or the Prime Minister, I'm explaining my own actions and my own
thinking. The Prime Minister is giving a press conference later and he will answer questions on Government policy.
Around midnight on Thursday the 26th of March I spoke to the Prime Minister. He told me that he tested positive for COVID. We discussed the
national emergency, arrangements for Number 10 given his isolation and what I would do in Number 10 the next day.
The next morning, I went to work as usual. I was in a succession of meetings about this emergency.
I suddenly got a call from my wife who was at home looking after our four- year-old child. She told me she suddenly felt badly ill, she vomited and felt like she might pass out, and there would be nobody to look after our
child. None of our usual childcare options were available. They were alone in the house.
After very briefly telling some officials in Number 10 what happened, I immediately left the building, ran to my car and drove home. This was
reported by the media at the time, who saw me run out of Number 10.
After a couple of hours my wife felt a bit better, there were many critical things at work, and she urged me to return in the afternoon and I did. That
evening I returned home and discussed the situation with my wife. She was ill, she might have COVID though she did not have a cough or a fever.
At this point most of those who I work with most closely, including the Prime Minister himself, and others who sit within 15 feet of me every day,
either had had symptoms and had returned to work, or were absent with symptoms.
I thought there was a distinct probability that I had already caught the disease. I had a few conflicting thoughts in my mind. First, I was worried
if my wife and I were both seriously ill, possibly hospitalized, there was nobody in London that we could reasonably ask to look after our child and
expose themselves to COVID. My wife had felt on the edge of not being able to look after him safely a few hours earlier.
[11:35:00]
I was thinking: What if the same or worse happens to me? There is nobody I can reasonably ask to help. The regulations make clear, I believe, that
risks to the health of a small child were an exceptional situation and I had a way of dealing with this that minimized risk to others.
Second, I thought that if I did not develop symptoms then I might be able to return to work to help deal with the crisis. There were ongoing
discussions about testing government staff in order to keep people like me working rather than isolating.
At this point, on the Friday, advisers such as myself had not been included in a list of who were tested. But it was possible this might be changed the
following week. Therefore, I thought that after testing negative I could continue working. In fact, this did not change and special advisers were
not tested, and I have never been tested.
Third, there had been numerous false stories in the media about my actions and statements regarding COVID, in particular there were stories suggesting
I had opposed lockdown and even that I didn't care about many deaths.
For years I have warned of the dangers of pandemics. Last year I wrote about the possible threat of coronaviruses and the urgent need for
planning.
The truth is I argued for lockdown, I did not oppose it. But these stories have created a very bad atmosphere around my home. I was subject to threats
of violence, people came to my house shouting threats, there were posts on social media encouraging attacks, there were many media reports on TV
showing pictures of my house.
I was also worried that given the severity of this emergency, this situation would get worse and I was worried about the possibility of
leaving my wife and child at home all day and often into the night while I worked in Number 10.
I thought the best thing to do in the circumstances was drive to an isolated cottage on my father's farm. At this farm my parents live in one
house, my sister and her two children live in another, and there is a separate cottage roughly 50 meters away from either of them.
My tentative conclusion on the Friday evening was this: If we were both unable to look after our child, then my sister or nieces can look after
him. My nieces are 17 and 20. They are old enough to look after him but also young enough to be in the safest category, and they had extremely
kindly offered to do so, if needed.
But I thought if I do not develop symptoms and with a testing regime in place at work, I could return to work if I tested negative. In that
situation I could leave my wife and child behind in a safe place. Safe in the form of support from family for shopping and emergencies, safe in the
sense of being away from our home should we become a target, and also safe for everybody else because they were completely isolated on a farm and
could not infect anybody.
Contrary to some media reports, there are no neighbors in the normal sense of the word. The nearest other homes are roughly half a mile away. So in
this scenario I thought they could stay there for a few weeks, I could go back to work, help colleagues, and everybody including the general public
would be safe.
I did not ask the Prime Minister about this decision. He was ill himself and he had huge problems to deal with. Every day I have to exercise my
judgment about things like this and decide what to discuss with him. I thought I would speak to him when the situation clarified over the coming
days, including whether I had symptoms and whether there were tests available.
Arguably, this was a mistake and I understand some will say I should have spoken to the Prime Minister before deciding what to do.
So I drove the three of us up to Durham that night, arriving roughly at midnight. I did not stop on the way. When I woke the next morning, Saturday
the 28th of March, I was in pain and clearly had COVID symptoms, including a bad headache and a serious fever. Clearly, I could not return to work any
time soon.
For a day or two we were both ill, I was in bed, my wife was ill, but not ill enough that she needed emergency help. I got worse, she got better.
During the night of Thursday, the 2nd of April, my child woke up, he threw up and had a bad fever. He was very distressed. We took medical advice
which was to call 999.
An ambulance was sent, they assessed my child and said he must go to hospital. I could barely stand up, my wife went with him in the ambulance,
I stayed at home, he stayed the night in hospital.
In the morning my wife called to say that he had recovered, seemed back to normal, doctors had tested him for COVID and said they should return home.
There were no taxis. I drove to the hospital, picked him up, then returned home. I did not leave the car or have any contact with anybody at any point
on this short trip.
[11:40:00]
The hospital is, I don't know what, roughly five miles or something away, two miles, three miles, four miles, something like that.
A few days later the hospital said he tested negative. After I started to recover, one day in the second week I tried to walk outside the house. At
one point the three of us walked into woods owned by my father, next to the cottage we were staying in. Some people saw us in the woods from a distance
but we had no interaction with them. We had not left the property, we were on private land.
By Saturday the 11th of April, I was still feeling weak and exhausted, but other than that I had no COVID symptoms. I thought I would be able to
return to work the following week, possibly part time. It was obvious that the situation was extremely serious. The Prime Minister had been gravely
ill, colleagues were dealing with huge problems and many were ill or isolating. I felt like I ought to return to work if possible, given I was
now recovering, in order to relieve the intense strain at Number 10.
That Saturday I sought expert medical advice. I explained our family's symptoms and all the timings and asked if it was safe to return to work on
Monday, Tuesday, seek childcare and so on. I was told that it was safe and I could return to work and seek childcare.
On Sunday the 12th of April, 15 days after I first displayed symptoms, I decided to return to work. My wife was very worried particularly because my
eyesight seemed to have been affected by the disease.
She did not want to risk a nearly 300-mile drive with our child, given how ill I had been. We agreed that we should go for a short drive to see if I
could drive safely. We drove for roughly half an hour and ended up on the outskirts of Barnard Castle town. We did not visit the castle. We did not
walk around the town. We parked by a river. My wife and I discussed the situation, we agreed that I could drive safely, we should turn around and
go home.
I felt a bit sick. We walked about 10-15 meters from the car to the riverbank nearby. We sat there for about 15 minutes. We had no interactions
with anybody. I felt better, we returned to the car. An elderly gentleman walking nearby appeared to recognize me. My wife wished him happy Easter
from a distance, but we had no interaction with him.
We headed home. On the way home our child needed the toilet. He was in the back seat of the car. We pulled over to the side of the road, my wife and
child jumped out into the woods by the side of the road.
They were briefly outside, I briefly joined them. They played for a little bit and then I got out of the car, went outside, we were briefly in the
woods. We saw some people at a distance, but at no point did we break any social distancing rules. We then got back in the car, and went home.
We agreed that if I continued to improve then the next day we should return to London and I would go back to work. We returned to London on the evening
of Monday the 13th of April, Easter Monday. I went back to work in Number 10 the next morning.
At no point between arriving and leaving Durham did any of the three of us enter my parents' house, or my sister's house. Our only exchanges were
shouted conversations at a distance. My sister shopped for us and left everything outside.
In the last few days there have been many reports that I returned to Durham on April 13. All these stories are false. There is a particular report that
I returned there on the 19th of April. Photos and data on my phone prove this to be false, and local CCTV, if it exists, will also prove that I am
telling the truth, that I was in London that day, I was not in Durham.
During this two-week period, my mother's brother died with COVID. There are media reports that this had some influence on my behavior. These reports
are false. This private matter did not affect my movements. None of us saw him, none of us attended his funeral.
In this very complex situation I tried to exercise my judgment the best I could. I believe that in all circumstances I behaved reasonably and
legally, balancing the safety of my family and the extreme situation in Number 10, and the public interest in effective government to which I could
contribute.
I was involved in decisions affecting millions of people, and I thought I should try to help as much as I could do. I can understand that some people
will argue that I should have stayed at my home in London throughout. I understand these views. I know the intense hardship and sacrifice the
entire country has had to go through.
However, I respectfully disagree. The legal rules inevitably do not cover all circumstances, including those that I found myself in. I thought, and I
think today, the rules including those regarding small children in extreme circumstances allowed me to exercise my judgment about the situation I
found myself in, including the way that my London home had become a target, and all the complexity of the situation.
[11:45:00]
I accept of course there is room for reasonable disagreement about this. I also understand that some people think I should not have driven at all,
anywhere. But I had taken expert medical advice, it was 15 days after symptoms, I had been told I could return to work and employ childcare.
I think it was reasonable and sensible to take a small journey before embarking on a five-hour drive to see whether I was in a fit state to do
this. The alternative was to stay in Durham rather than going back to work and contribute to the Government's efforts. I believe I made the right
judgment, but I can understand that others may disagree with that.
I have explained all of the above to the Prime Minister. At some point during the first week when we were both sick and in bed, I mentioned to him
what I had done. Unsurprisingly given the condition we were in, neither of us remember the conversation in any detail.
I did not make my movements public at the time, because my London home was already a target, I did not believe I was obliged to make my parents' home
and my sister's home a target for harassment as well.
I understand that millions of people have seen media coverage of this issue. I know that millions of people have endured awful hardship including
personal tragedies over the past few months and people are suffering every day.
I know the British people hate the idea of unfairness. I wanted to explain what I thought, what I did, and why over this period, because I think
people like me who help to make the rules should be accountable for their actions.
I'm happy to answer questions from the media who are here. Sorry, I've got a list. And I was told to ask the people in this order. Laura?
LAURA KUENSSBERG, BBC POLITICAL EDITOR: Thank you very much, Mr. Cummings. Do you regret what you did? Because many people in this country have made
heartbreaking sacrifices in the last couple of months in order to stick to the rules that you were a part of putting together.
And many people may have listened to you and think you made your own interpretation. And do you understand, for some people, it seems as if
there was one version of the rules for you. And one version of the rules for everyone else.
CUMMINGS: Thank you, Laura. No, I don't, I don't regret what I did. As I said, I think reasonable people may well disagree about how I thought about
what to do in these circumstances. But I think that what I did was actually reasonable in these circumstances.
In terms of the rules, I think that the rules make clear that if you're dealing with small children, then that could be - that can be, exceptional
circumstances. And I think the situation that I was in was exceptional circumstances. And I think that the way that I dealt with it was the least
risk to everybody concerned, if my wife and I had both been unable to look after our four-year-old.
KUENSSBERG: It may sound to many people this afternoon, though, that you're using a loophole that was in complete contrast to the message people heard
day after day from No. 10 of stay at home, stay at home, stay at home. Do you understand why some people are really angry about this, not just
respectfully disagree: that they're furious?
CUMMINGS: I certainly do. I mean, I've seen some of the media, obviously, over the last couple of days and I'm not surprised that a lot of people are
very angry and lots of people - I know if - if you're someone who was sitting at home watching a lot of the media over the last three days, then
I think lots of people would be very angry. And I completely understand that.
But I think - I hope and think that today, when I've actually explained all of the circumstances about it - I think people realize this is a very
complicated, tricky situation and I was trying to weigh up a lot of different things. Some people might have behaved differently in some ways.
As I said, you know, arguably it was a mistake that I didn't call the Prime Minister on the Friday night and I just did what I thought was the right
thing to do. But I have to make decisions like that every day. And yes, I understand the people watching the media could be very upset about what's
happened, but I've explained why.
KUENSSBERG: Do you want to offer any regret, any apology to people who didn't have the ability to make the decisions that you did, who didn't have
the resources to do what you did?
CUMMINGS: As I said, I think - obviously, I've thought a lot about what I did over this period, what things I could have done better with this. What
things I could have done better in general in dealing with the whole crisis. There's definitely a lot of things that I could have done better
over the last few months. But I think what I did in this 14 days, I think that I behaved reasonably. Is there anything you'd like to ask?
[11:50:00]
KUENSSBERG: No, it's good.
CUMMINGS: Robert?
ROBERT PESTON, ITV NEWS, POLITICAL EDITOR: So just to be absolutely clear, in this 14-day period and subsequently, apart from one visit to Durham and
back, and a trip to Barnard Castle, neither you nor Mary have been anywhere else at all.
Also, millions of people haven't seen their parents for months now. Can you just tell us a bit more about the nature of your contact with your parents?
And then, finally, your own scientists are worried, they said this last night, that by introducing an element of personal discretion into the
interpretation of the rules, you are putting lives at risk. What would you say to them and what would you say to us to reassure us?
CUMMINGS: Thanks Robert. You asked whether it was true that over this 14- day period, that we didn't go anywhere else apart from off in the car on day 15. No, that's not correct.
PESTON: Apart from the trip to hospital.
CUMMINGS: Yes, exactly. There was the trip to hospital. And then there was the drive on day 15, but apart from that, neither of us left.
PESTON: And nothing since either?
CUMMINGS: Nothing since then in terms of?
PESTON: Just trips that break the rules as it were.
CUMMINGS: No. You know, I left - I mean, I'm not exactly sure where the boundaries of London are. But as far as I am aware, the only time I left
London since the Tuesday the 14th, was to go to Chequers for meetings with the Prime Minister.
PESTON: And that will apply to Mary too because obviously you are a household?
CUMMINGS: Yes, I mean Mary and I have been together since we returned.
PESTON: And then on this issue of contact with your parents?
CUMMINGS: On the issue of contact with my parents. So - I mean, obviously - so, neither Mary or I have been tested. So, neither of us could be
definitively sure about what our situation was. Mary had been ill and then recovered. She hadn't had a cough, a fever. I pretty clearly seemed to have
COVID and talking to medical experts. They thought that but I wasn't tested.
But, obviously, our default mode was assume that all three of us have got it. So I was in a cottage 50 meters or so away from everybody else.
Obviously, we kept very, very far away from them. There are various reports that I visited them, that I stayed with them. That's all completely untrue.
My parents are in their 70s, obviously I did not want to give them this disease, and so we stayed very far away. We did have some conversations,
but you know, we were on a farm and they were shouted conversations at a distance. They weren't some of the things that have been reported.
In terms of introducing a question of discretion. I don't - so, I'm not seeking to introduce anything or any element of discretion. To me, the
rules are there, they talk about what to do with exceptional circumstances and small children. I was trying to weigh up on that Friday night,
conflicting things between what happens if we're both ill; who's going to look after him; what's the safest way of doing that.
Is there a way in which I might go back to work the following week if the whole testing system changes, which was being discussed, but did not, in
fact, happen? I was trying to weigh all of those things up. Given that, I don't believe that I broke the rules.
PESTON: If it's not breaking the rules it's that the SPIP and SPIM members last night said that they think you introduced the idea that if your
personal circumstances don't allow then you can do something different from what the simple rules say. And they are very worried that will make it much
harder to contain the spread of disease.
CUMMINGS: Well, I think that they're right to be worried, that coverage over the last couple of days could encourage people to behave in certain
ways. But with great respect to them, they made those comments without knowing what had actually happened. And actually that's one of the reasons
why I think now it would have been better to have made this statement earlier.
[11:55:00]
But as it was, well, I didn't. And it would have been better to have done it earlier, for sure. And that would have also I think have also stopped
some of those guys themselves being confused by what they read. Beth?
BETH RIGBY, SKY NEWS, POLITICAL EDITOR: Thank you. Mr. Cummings thousands of people watching this, ordinary families, have put up with all kinds of
restrictions and hardships regardless of their medical or family requirements.
People not going to funerals, people not even going into hospital when their kids have been having cancer treatment, why are you so different?
What those people I think see here is that there's one rule for you, one of the most powerful people in this country, and there's another rule for
them. Don't you think you at the very least owe them an apology?
CUMMINGS: I don't think I'm so different and I don't think there's one rule for me and one rule for other people. As I said, I knew what the guidance
was, it talks about exceptional circumstances with small children and I think that in all the circumstances I behaved reasonably and legally as I
said.
RIGBY: The people will be listening to this. For days government ministers have obfuscated about whether you went to Barnard Castle. No information
put out. This is meant to be the people's government isn't it. But you've partly misjudged public mood on this.
This isn't damage the Prime Minister it has undermined your policy and its undermined public confidence in the government. It could even now threaten
public health if people decide that the rules don't matter. How can you even countenance at the moment staying on and not resigning?
CUMMINGS: Well. As I said I think I think there is understandable anger, but a lot of that anger is based on reports in the media that have not been
true, and it's extremely regrettable. But the reason that we're reporting some of these things that were wrong, were told that they were wrong, but
they reported them anyway and that has caused a lot that has caused a lot of anger. I know. A lot of people shouted at me in the street. Why did you
go back? Why do you go back to see your parents, because you wanted to? But I did not do that.
RIGBY: OK. Just ask you one more thing. You went 260 miles. You didn't stop. But you didn't think that you ought to check with the Prime Minister,
knowing how that might look. When we were at the height of lockdown and we were all being told not to go anywhere and to stay at home and to self-
isolate if we had COVID. I know you have circumstances. But how could you not even chat with your boss?
CUMMINGS: Well, as I said, I think, that's a very reasonable question and I think a lot of people would say I ought to have called the Prime Minister
about it. But all I can say is what is I said earlier on about what my - about what my state of mind was at the time. He himself had just tested
positive hours earlier. He was ill. He was upstairs in Number 10 time in bed.
He had a million things on his plate. We all had a million things on our plates. We were trying to do lots of things. One of the things I have to
decide every day is what to bother the Prime Minister with and what not to bother the Prime Minister with.
And the honest truth about my job is that there are endless problems all day long, and I can't go to him all day asking him what you think about
that, with this, what you think about the other. Otherwise, what's the point of having people like me around? I have to get on with things. I have
to make decisions. And sometimes I make - do the right things and sometimes I make mistakes.
RIGBY: I should stop now. But in retrospect, you'd wish you chat with him first?
CUMMINGS: I don't know is the honest truth about that particular thing. Maybe I should have done. But I have to protect his time. There were lots
of really big issues that - the Prime Minister's time is just about the most valuable commodity that exists in any governments. We have to be very
careful about what you go to him with and what you don't goes in with.
And I have to make that judgement literally dozens of times a day. And I made that judgment in a very short period time, in very extreme
circumstances. And as I said, I mean, I thought the time was the right thing to do. But I also completely understand that people think it was a
mistake and in fact I should have spoken to him about it.
END
