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Connect the World
Archana Gonzalez Laya: Half Of People We Are Testing Are Asymptomatic; CNN Speaks To Spanish Foreign Minister On UN General Assembly Week; EU Official: More Than 60 Percent Of Refugees Will Be Returned; A Green New Deal To Tackle Climate Change; U.S. Presidential Candidate Differ On Climate Change; UN Film Calls For Collective Action Against Global Crises. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired September 24, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: This hour after a wasted summer Europe looks set for a hard winter. We, being with what's being called a decisive moment
for Europe, as it tries to get its arms around a second wave of Coronavirus a monumental task with the continent bracing for more deaths and even more
economic damage.
Remember, Europe is still struggling with its worst plunge in economic growth on record, and third quarter results are looming. At the same time,
governments keep unveiling different measures to control the infection.
In France, Marseille is now considered a maximum alert zone, that country's highest risk classification. And the French Health Minister says another
lockdown is still on the table if things get worse. But people may be losing faith in all of these control measures. Take a listen to what one
senior member of the EU Commission said a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STELLA KYRIAKIDES, EU HEALTH COMMISSIONER: In some member states, the situation is now even worse than during the peak in March. This is a real
cause for concern. What this means, to be very clear is that the control measures taken have simply not been effective enough or not being enforced
or followed as they should have been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I've been speaking recently to the EU's Margaritis Schinas who says that the block is trying to do its part, but there seems to be a lot
of hand wringing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARITIS SCHINAS, VP, EU COMMISSION FOR PROMOTING OUR EUROPEAN WAY OF LIFE: We are concerned, of course, and we are very vigilant, as you know.
Health is not as such a competence of the European Union.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Isn't that interesting? Well, Spain, as a member of the EU, may be having the toughest time with a raging spike in infections. And among
the worst-hit economies on the continent, the Spanish Foreign Minister Archana Gonzalez Laya joining me now live from Madrid. And it is good to
have you on. And thank you for the time.
Three months after Spain's strict and also successful lockdown was lifted, the country has now become the worst-affected in Western Europe. Madrid
particularly badly hit, accounting for about a third of the country's cases, as I understand it. I know that you and authorities have been
pleading for more doctors from outside of Spain to come and assist. Have you received that help?
ARCHANA GONZALEZ LAYA, SPANISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, first, to say that what's happening in Spain is the rule is not the exception, what we are
seeing in Spain is what we are seeing in France, in the United Kingdom, in the Czech Republic, in the Netherlands or in Israel. We may be a bit - in
the mind, but what we're seeing is the second wave of cases.
Now, this is in a different shape from the first wave, not from the point of view of the committed itself, but by the fact that today we know more
and we can handle it better, which is exactly what we're doing, understanding that as we open, especially for freedom of movement, we see
new cases in probably younger populations, in family reunions, in night life or in temporary workers in the agricultural sector.
Our role is trace, track, identify, isolate, but do this in a more surgical manner than we did it in March, when we didn't know the virus.
ANDERSON: OK. You're saying, you know - everything you're saying makes sense. But it hasn't been working with respect. So what do you do next?
LAYA: Well, it's been - it's worked for a while. And now we are again having to confront this, but with weapons that we didn't have before. Now
we are testing about 80,000 people a day, which is well above what we were doing back in March.
50 percent of the people that we are testing are asymptomatic. So we are identifying the problem before they become a burden on our health care
system. Today, our mortality rate is below 1 percent back in March, it was 8 percent.
So we need to remain vigilant, because unfortunately, this is a virus that at the moment we open mobility, resurges. But what we need to do is learn
to live with it, managing it, controlling it, and making sure it doesn't become a health crisis which is what we are trying to do in Spain.
ANDERSON: I understand. I understand. And the government has imposed local lockdowns, in Madrid, of which we saw a number of protests in response.
Have a listen to one resident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The battle against the virus is not in confining us. It is in the primary health care, where we can test for the positive and
negative, so we can confine the people who are truly infected. That is where the battle against the virus is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[11:05:00]
ANDERSON: OK, that's one voice. People are complaining that the measures which allow people to go to work or school failed to address the problem
of, for example, overcrowded transport systems, where people are packed like sardines or even, for example, the crowded Madrid Opera that got
canceled earlier this week. So I have to ask, are these localized lockdowns really effective?
LAYA: So what we are trying to do, first, is understanding that about one third of the new cases in Spain originate in the region of Madrid. What we
are trying to do is help the local authorities, the regional authorities in Madrid to manage the situation deploying resources, including the support
of the army in expanding, tracing capacities.
So that the burden is not only on the citizens and their good behavior, we need them and we are really thankful for the great cooperation we've been
having from us in this instance but also in expanding the capacities of the regional government to confront the COVID.
Again, tracing, testing, isolating health care facilities but doing this in a surgical manner. You see, Becky, in Madrid, which is quite an extended
region there are parts of this region that are most affected than others.
What we are trying to do is help the regional government in surgically identifying the parts of this region that are most affected so that it
doesn't translate into the entire region. And of course, it is tough in Spain like anywhere else where we need to deploy those measures, which are
not popular, but which are necessary to win the battle over COVID.
ANDERSON: You heard the sound earlier from one of the EU Ministers admitting, in his words, that the health competence in the block, in the
European Union block is just not good enough. We started this discussion by me asking you whether you are getting the support from a European Union
that you need, with respect you didn't answer that question.
So what are you appealing for from the European Union? And do you feel in Spain, as Foreign Minister, that you are being supported by a block that
has admitted to being incompetent when it comes to COVID reaction?
LAYA: What I have heard this person in your program say is that competences over health care are not at the European level. They are at the national
level. And this person is right, that competences over health care, the services on health care are national ones.
In our case, in the case of Spain, it's a combination of national, but also, it's devolved to the regions, which is why we have to put a premium
on coordinating the different regions. As far as Europe is concerned, we are getting the support that we need.
We had a very successful recent measure adopted by the European Union, by all members of the EU, in the form of a recovery package that will help the
EU by investing together recover the economy together and re-launch our economy.
So as far as we are concerned, Europe for the moment is giving the response that we need. What we need to do now is concentrate on managing the COVID
pandemic in Spain each region taking its responsibilities with the strong support of the central government, which is what, again, modestly we're
trying to do.
ANDERSON: Foreign Minister, Spain's economy shrank less than previously reported in the second quarter, which was good news. But the contractions
still the worst on record for the country. You are heavily reliant on tourism to the tune of 15 percent or more to your GDP and people are
clearly traveling less. What is your message to travelers and how are you going to recover from this?
LAYA: Well, the message has been all along that this was going to hit the European economy hard. That it was going to hit the Spanish economy hard,
because we know a big part of our economy is reliant on services. And a big part of these services is tourism, which relies on people's mobility.
[11:10:00]
LAYA: But that the government was doing everything that it could to cushion the impact on the tourism sector, we deployed massive support for workers,
for businesses, so that were related to the tourism sector in order to have cushion the impact that COVID is having on the economic activity.
But also, investing now in building a recovery of our economy that builds in resilience makes sure that tourism sector that is of an excellent
quality worldwide can rebound and build more resilience, more sustainability, to be better prepared for the future.
Spain is a safe country. Spain is a country that is desperate and very much willing to welcome again all of these amazing tourists that come regularly
to our country. But for now, what we have to do is concentrate on fighting COVID like the rest of the world. No different to the rest of the world.
ANDERSON: Now, I understand. I understand. I do want to just discuss the issue of migration in Europe with you. I would like to play for you a clip
of my colleague's reporting on migrants being pushed back from Greece and how the experience was for them? Please just have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ayaq (ph) who is from Somalia says that they were treated like animals. Everyone we've spoken to here says
that they don't want to try this trip again. They don't want to try to go through Greece, because of what they went through. They're really shocked
that this is how Europe deals with human beings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Just yesterday, the EU announcing a new compulsory system on migration that allows member states or would allow member states who don't
want to volunteer to house more migrants.
To instead take care of sending those whose asylum requests are rejected back to their homes. One migration expert called it a compromise between
xenophobia and cowardice. Where does Spain stand in all of this?
LAYA: Well, Spain, which has a progressive government wants European contract on migration and asylum that is based on the principles of
solidarity, responsibility, and humanity. This is a complex issue that cannot be signed up in one line, Becky, unfortunately, but what we need to
do is open legal paths for migration.
We have to respond to our international obligations, as relates to asylum. We have to have zero tolerance to criminal gangs that are trafficking with
humans into the European Union. We have to help and cooperate with countries of origin and transit.
And we have to in Europe, be responsible, but exercise a little bit more solidarity, like Greece or Italy or at the border. And in this border, we
know it is tough. But when we have, and this is what we need to do now, is invest in having one system in Europe that open paths for those who want to
come legally to the European Union, kicks back and pushes back those who want to illegally enter through criminal activities.
And is responsible towards our asylum and refugee obligations, which is probably what the previous section in your program was about.
ANDERSON: Yes and we will continue to press for answers on exactly what this new pact might mean with its flexible options, which many have said,
just given out to so many of the EU members.
Foreign Minister, finally, I do want to look at something directly many your files. Spain will deliver its UNGA speech tomorrow its UNGA speech
tomorrow afternoon. These of course are prerecorded and virtual this year. What is your vision for the world?
LAYA: The vision for the world is more multilateralism to manage better our interconnections. We are more interconnected than ever before. And
therefore, what we need is more multilateralism, more international cooperation in order to protect our message better.
Second message will be a serious commitment to de-carbonize our economies. We only have one planet and we need to make sure that we act responsible,
that we manage it responsibly to lend it to the future generations.
Number three, inclusiveness including the fight for gender equality we need to make sure that we leave no citizen behind. And we've left women for too
long behind.
[11:15:00]
LAYA: This is the central tenants of why Spain will be a strong supporter of a stronger, more better functioning united nations. This is the message
that our prime minister will send tomorrow from a country that understands how important it is to work together if we are to deliver prosperity for
our citizens, leaving no one behind?
ANDERSON: These are tough times, but that is a vision for the future. And one I'm sure many of our viewers will concur with Foreign Minister, thank
you for joining us here on CNN. We got through a lot there and frankly, the Foreign Minister being very open and candid with her answers. And we
appreciate that.
Russian bailiffs have seized the apartment of opposition leader Alexander Navalny that is according to a spokeswoman who says the seizure is related
to a lawsuit from a company owned by a businessman close to Vladimir Putin.
The move came a day after Navalny was released from a German hospital that is where he was recovering of course from a poisoning that he blames on the
Russian government. Matthew Chance will get us up to these developments from Moscow. What more do you have for us at this hour?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really interesting because as if Alexey Navalny didn't have enough problems with
the health issues that he's got after being apparently poisoned with a Novichok-type substance according to German scientists and where he's
rehabilitating now from that clinic in Berlin.
He's actually been discharged from that clinic in the past 36 hours in fact. He's now dealing with a legal problem. It's been an ongoing sort of
simmering legal problem here in Russia, as well, and now the courts have moved against him and actually taken control, at least of the deeds or of
the financial dealings surrounding his apartment in Moscow.
They haven't actually prevented him from or his family from going into the apartment. Theoretically, he could still live there. But he's not able
under the terms of this court order to sell the apartment, rent it out, or to pass it on in a will or anything like that.
So it's put very tight restrictions on what he can do with property according to - who is his main sort of political ally, and his sort of
figure who runs his anti-corruption agency alongside him here in Russia said that Alexey Navalny's bank accounts have also been frozen.
It's all in connection with an ongoing legal dispute and the sort of antagonistic relationship that Alexey Navalny, Russia's most vocal kind of
critic of the Kremlin remember, anti-corruption campaigner, that he has with someone called Yevgeny Prigozhin an extremely controversial figure,
very sort of close and tight with Vladimir Putin's inner circle.
He's been known as - he's been dubbed Putin's Chef, because he has many hundreds of millions of dollars worth of catering projects for the Russian
state. He's also the person that is in charge of supposedly Wagner, which is a mercenary group, which has carried out operations in Syria and in
Libya and in Ukraine in Sudan and places like that.
And so he's been sort of sanctioned in the past by the United States for those kinds of activities. He's also the main funder, if not the owner of
the internet research agency, which is the sort of troll farm in St. Petersburg, that we heard such a lot about in and around the 2016 U.S.
Presidential elections, because it was accused of playing a leading role in manipulating those elections, in favor of Donald Trump and sowing discord
in the United States during that political season.
So Yevgeny Prigozhin has been sanctioned multiple times in the United States, he's been indicted for his various activities, as well. But he's
also got this personal feud with Alexey Navalny, because Alexey Navalny did a video report some time ago accusing one of the companies that was linked
to him, which provided meals to school meals for school children here of providing bad-quality food - abiding by sanitary purpose and actually
making children sick.
There was a legal battle the company sued Alexey Navalny, Navalny lost and had to pay $1.2 million. And this is what Yevgeny Prigozhin is doing trying
to get this money back, seizing his property.
ANDERSON: That's fascinating. Matthew, briefly, he has said he wants to go back to Russia. What is the mood around Navalny there? How did people
perceive him? Is he a hero? Is it is he a threat?
CHANCE: Well, you know, Alexey Navalny, I think, has always been, you know, a really important sort of figure in Russia in terms of his opposition
campaign. He's a big thorn in the side of the Kremlin. And in some ways, you know, there are only two real politicians in Russia.
[11:20:00]
CHANCE: One of them is Vladimir Putin and the other one is Alexey Navalny because he leads this extremely popular - he doesn't have any
representation or much significant reputation in the various sort of governmental bodies, but he leads this extraordinarily popular campaign
against official corruption.
And he really managed to cut through, using that issue of corruption, cut through sort of all the sort of monopoly of the state media. He posts his
video reports on his own YouTube channel. Millions of people watch his exposes of corrupt Russian officials, all over Russia, and in fact, all
over the world.
And that really, you know, hurts the Kremlin. And it does them damage, and they really think of him as a huge problem. That was the situation before
he was poisoned. When he comes back to Russia, as he says he will come back, as he will do to continue his work, he's clearly going to come back
in an enhanced form, his status, if he survives this, which it looks like he will, looks like it will be increased in Russia.
ANDERSON: Matthew Chance is in Moscow for you. Matt, thank you. Well, just moments ago, I was speaking to Spain's Foreign Minister who told me that
Europe needs more legal pathways for people to migrate into the continent.
But just a day after the block's new migration plan was released or packed, as it's known, it could be about to fall apart. Underneath all of those
politics, what's going on with the people trying to find a better life? Well, CNN has a new immersive experience to help you live it, feel it, know
it for yourself more on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: The migrant crisis has been a shadow over European politics for years. And now the EU's new packed migration and asylum is facing backlash
from eastern member states, threatening to derail efforts to unify Europe's policy on migration.
Well, the pact gives members flexible options for their support, giving states the option of taking in migrants or returning those not declaring
asylum to their home countries. Well, Wednesday on the show, I spoke with the European Commission's Vice President for Promoting the European Way of
Life. Yep, that is a title and here is what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHINAS: Europe will continue to be an asylum destination for those fleeing war and dictatorship. But those who have no reason to be in European under
our asylum rules will have to be returned. The majority of people arriving, I would say more than 60 percent, probably 70 percent, are not from
countries with a high recognition rate for asylum so they are the ones that would represent the pool of people to return.
[11:25:00]
SCHINAS: And under the new pact, we would have clear procedures for solidarity and organizing these returns in an orderly and humane way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, thousands of Europe's migrants once called the Moria Camp in Greece their home. Well, now it is a pile of ashes following last
month's devastating fire. CNN went there earlier this year and that footage that was shot then is part of an immersive exhibit set to open in London,
giving participants a glimpse into the life of a refugee. Phil Black has more.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One night of fire and panic left this blackened mark on Lesbos. The Moria Migrant Camp is gone. Some of the
world's most desperate people now have even less.
When we visited the camp earlier this year, we saw it as it was. Humanitarian groups say you've got to move people out of here on to the
main land somewhere to relieve the pressure here on Lesbos a sprawling slum, population, more than 18,000. We met families with little food,
water, sanitation, and no reason to hope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: You know how old, days, weeks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 13.
BLACK: 13 days?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 13 days.
BLACK: Boy or girl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boy.
BLACK: Boy. What is his name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ahmed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: Walking through the Moria Refugee Camp here in Lesbos is a truly surprising experience. Perhaps the most surprising thing is simply the
scale of it. The camp is gone, but it's still possible to get a sense of that experience, of how these people were forced to live?
This exhibit in London is like a time machine. It puts you back among them, back in the crowded, filthy conditions of Moria. The display, collaboration
with CNN, is part of the imperial war museum's refugee season.
It surrounds you with images and noise from the camp. It's powerful and immersive. A tool designed for walking in the shoes of people whose stories
are often misunderstood. That human connection is also the goal of the broader exhibition here, which charts 100 years of people fleeing their
homes because of war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON OFFORD, CURATOR, IMPERIAL WAR MUSEUMS: So we wanted to show that refugees are not just born refugees. They start off as normal people with
everyday lives and they are forced to make these horrible, horrible decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: One display occupies the whole floor of the museum's famous atrium; a history of bombs by Chinese Ai Weiwei explores the terrifying hardware
that often drives people to leave their homes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AI WEIWEI, ARTIST: Many refugees told me, I still remember this that as the bomb comes down like rain. So that makes them think, this is unbelievable.
Those bombs can come down like a rain. And that made a deep impression on my mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: Back on Lesbos, those who lived in Moria before the fire must now sleep where they can. A London museum exhibition isn't going to change
their lives, but it might help others understand how they got there. Phil Black, CNN, London.
ANDERSON: I just want to share a little more of that footage of the Moria Camp with you. Some incredible images from after the fire European
Commission President Ursula Von De Leur calling it a stark reminder that we need to find sustainable solutions.
But it's more than that. It's the remnants of thousands of people's lives as they wait for their asylum requests to be heard, caught in complete
limbo is what many people say, and it's perpetual limbo for so many people, after what have been some remarkable and terrifying journeys.
Well, one person you may recognize who recently visited the camp describing it as; "Hell on earth" is Actress Lana Heedy, better known as Cersei
Lannister for any of you "Game of Thrones" fans out there.
She spoke out in support of refugees during her trip to Moria. You can watch videos of her visit and read about her experience meeting those stuck
in the camp on our digital site, cnn.com.
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ANDERSON: And later in the show, a campaign for education in refugee camps gets some star support from this Liverpool footballer and friend of this
show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMED SALAH, LIVERPOOL FOOTBALLER: And I agree with him that with education, the refugees will have a good life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And when it comes to the climate crisis, my next guest says only a radical change is going to make a difference more on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: This week is climate week and in virtual meetings at the United Nations General Assembly, world leaders are proposing solutions to the
myriad of challenges facing our environment wildfires raging, hurricanes more intense, the Coronavirus overwhelming health care systems across our
planet.
There are many ties between what are these dual dangerous of the COVID-19 pandemic and the climate crises summit. But to have studied the science for
years are now calling for a Green New Deal. They see the answers not in baby steps, but in radical new efforts to tackle climate change while
respecting human rights and equality.
My next guest is an award-winning author who for a decade has documented the climate crisis, Naomi Klein's book, "On fire: The (Burning) Case for a
Green New Deal" just got re-released in paperback. Naomi joining me now from British, Columbia and it is a pleasure to have you with us.
For those who haven't read the book and now know that they can get it on re-release, clearly, we don't want to spoil it for them, but if you can
just sort of button it up as it were and tell me, what is this green new deal program that you speak of?
NAOMI KLEIN, AUTHOR, "ON FIRE: THE (BURNING) CASE FOR A GREEN NEW DEAL: Well, first of all, it's wonderful to be with you.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
KLEIN: And the Green New Deal is a framework to tackle the climate crisis, but also many of the other crisis we face, it's recognition that we live in
a time of overlapping and intersecting crisis, economic inequality, racial exclusion, gender exclusion and of course the climate crisis and these
diseases.
So how do we multi-task? How do we solve multiple problems at once? And it isn't going to be one narrow policy. It's really going to be a framework
from the next economy. And given that our current economy is on its knees and governments are trying to figure out how to rebuild, how to revive?
How to stimulate? It's actually in a way a better time to have this conversation than when I released the book a year ago. Because at that
stage, the talk was all, well, it's too much. You know, we only need to do small things. And it's too much money and so on.
[11:35:00]
KLEIN: And we've all just watched as governments have found trillions of dollars to pump into markets, so clearly it is possible to do big things.
ANDERSON: Naomi, not as far as the Trump Administration is concerned, indeed, Donald Trump himself and those around him don't believe in anything
that you have just suggested, in any of these crisis. They don't see any of what we have just been - or you have just been outlining, as a set of
crisis at all.
KLEIN: No, they don't. Fortunately, there are elections coming up and Donald Trump is trailing in the polls. Also, threatening not to respect
those election results, so I'm not here to argue that this is easy and there aren't obstacles in our path. But as we said, I've been writing about
this for a long time and there has been a huge shift within the mainstream of the Democratic Party.
Joe Biden's platform is more bold than anything we've seen from a mainstream Democrat before. He's also, if he becomes president, going to be
under tremendous pressure from the grassroots of his party to introduce a green new deal-style program.
But the other thing that's interesting is that during the Trump era, because there's been so little traction at the federal level, there's been
a lot more focus on cities, on states that are controlled by Democrats, like California, like New York. These are companies that are larger than
the economies of most countries.
So we can't only be focused on what a Green New Deal would mean at the national scale. We have to be looking at it, you know, at the sub-national
and at the municipal level. There are some good signs in Europe, as well. You know, in terms of what I was just talking about before, about how do we
design stimulus programs post-COVID that marry the need for a rapid transition to a post-fossil fuel economy.
I'm not saying Europe is doing enough, but it is starting to move in the right direction. And I think if we did have a new administration in the
U.S., we could start to see some rapid change in the right direction.
ANDERSON: The climate crisis has been a hot topic at the UN General Assembly this week. And just want you to have a listen to what China's
President had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
XI JINPING, CHINESE PRESIDENT: COVID-19 reminds us that humankind should launch a green revolution and move faster to create a green way of
development at life, preserve the environment, and make mother earth a better place for all.
Human kinds can no longer afford to ignore the repeated warnings of nature and go down the beaten path of extracting resources without investing in
conservation, pursuing development at the expense of protection and exploiting resources without restoration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I'm sure the Chinese's president's words are music to your ears. Our viewers certainly might say that it is rife coming from a country that
is one of the worst polluters. I'll get you to respond to that.
I also want you to respond to this sort of every year, it seems that world leaders set a bunch of targets not really much gets done who listen to them
at the UNGA, especially in today's world that it feels so much more sort of unilateral, bilateral than it does multi-lateral. Does that worry you?
KLEIN: It does worry me. And obviously, we have - we're getting mixed signals from China, I think is the most charitable way of putting it. Those
are fine words. At the same time, China in its quest to get back to pre- COVID levels of economic growth has also been suspending the enforcement of its pre-existing environmental standards so essentially freeing the way for
power plants to pollute even more, all in the name of getting back to growth.
This is not unique to China. In Australia, we're hearing a similar framing from the - from Scott Morrison's government, calling for cutting green tape
and holding out the hopes of a gas-led recovery, as they put it this on a continent that was literally on fire just a few months ago.
But what needs to be recognized is that all of these governments, including an authoritarian government, like China's, are under tremendous pressure
from their populations over urgent issues, like air pollution, like the impacts of forest fires. And this is very real for people.
You know, I'm speaking to you from British Columbia, where COVID has been controlled relatively well. British Columbia, Canada. So we were able to
open up schools a week and a half ago. I took my 8-year-old son to his first day of school and the plan was to keep the windows open, because that
is how we protect children and keep air ventilation in the context of COVID.
[11:40:00]
KLEIN: Except for on this day, they had to close all the windows, because we had the second-worst air quality in the world, because of the wildfires.
So this is not some abstract, far-off issue. This is something that millions upon millions of people around the world are struggling with and
are putting pressure on their leaders to do something, treat it like an emergency, because it is an emergency.
ANDERSON: And you posit something that I think that we are hearing around the world, that the COVID-19 pandemic can serve as our teacher, as it were,
granting us the time and space to reassess the lopsided priorities of our pre-COVID lives. And perhaps the legacy of COVID could be a better world
going forward.
Do you write and I quote you here, there is no returning to where we were before this crisis hit. We are going somewhere new. It could be a lot
worse, clearly. But it could also be significantly better. The outcome will depend on what we choose to carry with us and what we are willing to leave
behind. Briefly do explain what you mean, if you will?
KLEIN: Sure. That framing comes from time have spent in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria, which as you know was just ravaged by that storm and a lot
of Puerto Ricans I met talked about the hurricane as their teacher. That it had been this unveiling and it showed all of these broken systems, and I
think COVID has done that in a sense for the whole world.
And we all have to think about what is truly essential and ask ourselves questions, do I have to take that flight; do I have to drive there? And
what do I value most? And what labor is most important in our economy?
And so, we have all gotten a crash course in the importance of care work, overwhelmingly, work done by women. We have all - you know, not all, but I
think a lot of us have realized that we can live with less, if we are among the over consumers. But we also realize that we have to take hunger much
more seriously, we have to cover the basics.
And so, when I say that COVID can be our teacher, these lessons that we have learned about what is essential? What cannot be sacrificed? Who cannot
be sacrificed? We have learned so much in this period, and those are the lessons that have to guide how we try to rebuild and revive our economy?
And I do think it's a lesson and an opportunity. Because when we are moving at the warp speed of capitalism, as usual, it is very hard to change
course. But COVID has forced a slowdown and it allows us to be more deliberate. You know, if the skies are choked with airplanes, it's harder
to have a conversation, an honest conversation about what kind of air travel makes sense, what is truly essential.
If our cities are choked with traffic, it's harder to talk about how we should, could more rationally think about transportation in cities in a way
that increases our quality of life and also battles carbon pollution.
But at a time when things have slowed down, when we have less traffic, when we already have less air travel, we can have these rational conversations
and obviously leaders need to be pushed as you've said.
But I think some of that is happening. I mean, look, I call this book on fire, and that was sort of metaphorical. Now the streets are on fire with
people demanding justice in the face of police racism and violence. I just heard a report about refugee camps on fire and the world is on fire. So we
do need action.
ANDERSON: Very briefly, you alluded to the fact that Joe Biden is a sort of campaigning on the Green New Deal. Some will say, and I've read an article
here, yes, minus the crazy. He had a side of his party, the progressive side of the party, you called him a moderate, and he will want him to do an
awful lot more. Will he come good, briefly?
KLEIN: You know, the Green New Deal, it borrows from FDR's new deal in the 1930s, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And there's this famous story about FDR
meeting with labor leaders and civil rights leaders who would put pressure on him for some good piece of legislation. Some piece of the original new
deal. And he would say that's a great idea. Now get out there and make me do it.
And so, I think the answer with Joe Biden is that we are going to have to make him do it. But unlike with Trump, who is absolutely deaf to the
pressure from the street, from ordinary people. And in fact just comes in with tanks, I believe that a Biden Administration would have to be more
receptive to pressure, would be able to make him do it when it comes to a Green Few Deal, because this is his base, this is the base of the
democratic party.
[11:45:00]
ANDERSON: Got it. With that, we'll leave it there. It's an absolute pleasure having you on. Please do join us again Naomi Klein in the house
for you viewers, thank you taking a short break back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, it's our part of our "Call to Earth" commitment, CNN showcasing solutions to critical issues impacting our environment. This
week, we are highlighting biodiversity in the efforts of those working to protect ecosystems around the world. Now, that's essential to keeping
ourselves and our planet health.
So today we take you to a British farm doing extraordinary work, transforming itself into a place of astonishing biodiversity by letting the
animals take charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've seen this explosion of life and life has come back because of a new habitat that's been created with a whole lot of big
animals. There hasn't been any chemical used on this land for 20 years. Everything from the soil up has changed and brought back life into this
landscape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Knepp is a 3,500 acre estate in the South of England. It's the family home of Charlie Burrell and his wife, Isabella Tree, who
have transformed it into a place of astonishing biodiversity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can see a little piglet there.
CHARLIE BURRELL, KNEPP ESTATE OWNER: I inherited the estate age 21, in 1985. We are on this very poor agricultural land. So after 17 years of
conventionally farming, I got to the point when I just felt that I couldn't go on because we actually were beginning to lose serious money. And the
future looked pretty bleak.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 20 years ago, the couple stopped dairy and arable farming instead, choosing to let nature take its course. The process
pioneered by American and Dutch conservationist is called re-wilding.
ISABELLA TREE, KNEPP ESTATE OWNER: It's about kicking off natural processes again in a system, and then as human beings, trying to stand back from it
as much as possible and let natures perform.
So one of the things you can do is introduce free roaming herbivores. And all of them, the way they disturb the land, the way they trample and
rootle, everything they do has a hugely important knock-on effect, it's a domino effect for biodiversity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The estate has attracted many rare speeches, like turtle doves, white stork, and purple emperor butterflies.
[11:50:00]
BURRELL: This is the food plant of the butterfly. And we have now acres and acres of this plant. This butterfly is an incredibly rare butterfly. Here,
you can see it in the hundreds. This could be the most common butterfly in Britain if we allowed this plant to grow back into our lives.
TREE: Intensive agriculture and climate change have been two of the biggest drivers of a devastating loss of biodiversity worldwide. But Knepp success
shows it is possible to reverse that process.
BURRELL: One of the things that Knepp has given people is this feeling of hope, because within 15, 20 years, quite a lot of rare species, their
populations are growing again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has also helped bring in new revenue, from organic meat sales and a clamping and safari business, which Burrell says has
helped double profits once a leap of faith, free wilding has offered Knepp as well as nature a second chance.
BURRELL: To see a landscape in your own country and what you've been missing suddenly come to life has been this extraordinary revelation, this
surprise, this feeling of, not just joy that we can do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And we will continue showcasing inspirational stories like that as part of the initiative here at CNN. And do let us know what you are
doing to answer the call, with the #calltoearth. I'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BEAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a very important story, the important story. In the midst of COVID-19, it's an historic opportunity to look at the facts
of the world as it is and then to focus on the solutions to some of our greatest problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that is a clip from a new film released by the United Nations, calling for collective action against so many critical crises
around our world that we've been connecting you to this hour the migrant crisis, the climate crisis, the pandemic.
Well, the film is from renowned Screen Writer and Director Richard Curtis, who is also the Director of "Love, Actually" great film if you haven't seen
it. He joins us now from London and it's an absolute pleasure, sir, to have you with us.
Congratulations on what is an extraordinary film, a dynamic exploration of the times that we live in and the challenges that our world faces. What in
your opinion are the biggest crises that we collectively need to worry about now, today?
RICHARD CURTIS, SCREENWRITER AND DIRECTOR: Well, I mean, we've broken it down into the key issues of climate, gender, poverty, and, you know,
injustice, as it were. But for me, the crisis is whether or not at this moment, using the sort of pandemic as a portal.
We can use this as a moment to radically move forward, so for everyone, when they're making their plans, to make plans that are going to solve
problems rather than plans that are going to reinforce the problems before. So that's why this film is coming out now and is so particularly urgent, I
think.
[11:55:00]
ANDERSON: You talk about that. I've heard other people agree with you, talk about this being an opportunity, as much as it is a challenge at this
point. But I do wonder, those - you know, we all talk about how global change takes real global action. This film was meant to mark the U.N.'s
75th anniversary. And I just wonder, do you still believe in the purpose of the body and what it's set out to achieve?
CURTIS: I mean I really do. I sort of feel as though we're seeing particularly young people around the world not respecting any borders, you
know, so Black Lives Matter spreads from country to country and the climate marches happened everywhere and the women's marches happen everywhere. And
then you don't see that reflected in local politics.
But the U.N. is the one thing that does say that, which actually says, we should all be working together. We've got the STGs; we've got a plan where
193 countries have already signed up to it. So it seems to me the U.N. is a crucial body at the moment.
ANDERSON: You have said that the people with power must be the necessary heroes. Sir, are there any powerful people today that you consider a hero?
CURTIS: Well, do you know, the bit I've become a bit obsessed by is businesses. You do actually see a lot of businesses, because they are in
their very nature global, suddenly making huge changes, about where their money is invested, about their profits, particularly on climate issues, you
see a company like Unilever, shifting every single product they make.
So I think that there's a particular strength there and a determination, particularly, as you kind of had a consumer revolution happening at the
same time, when people say, well, what's the effect of the food that I buy, the clothes, the way that I travel.
ANDERSON: Sure.
CURTIS: Where is my money invested? So I'm - politicians tend to listen to businessmen more than they do to filmmakers, so I think that they're in a
particularly key position to say, well, we're going to change things fast.
ANDERSON: Listen, Richard Curtis, it's a pleasure having you on. We're hitting the back of the show here, but we will post the film on our
Facebook site and we wish you the best with it. Good on you. Terrific efforts thank you.
CURTIS: Thank you very much. It's more entertaining than you'd think with a good cause.
ANDERSON: We know. Good on you. We wouldn't expect anything less from you, sir. Before we go, viewers, I'd like to leave you with this clip from
Liverpool footballer, Mo Salah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALAH: I would like you to meet Pacific, Luel, Salama and Fatna. They are students living in refugee camps where they can access education. Thanks to
instant networks, I can feel that I want my daughters to have a good education, so I wish that everybody can help the refugees.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: He says he's been inspired by students attending classes in refugee camps. He took their stories to the United Nations this week with
the message that all young people need an education, including refugees. Good on you, Mo.
Now, what's this or who's that? Well, it's my brand-new producer, Zina. Yep, she's adding a few gray hairs, let me tell you. We are fully out of
time for this show. We have just jam packed it with good stuff. Time is finite after all remember that people do remember that, time is finite.
Take care of yourselves, take care of our planet. It is a very good night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
