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W.H.O. Projects Dramatic Increase in Europe COVID Deaths; Trump & Biden's Dueling Town Halls; Thai Police Disperse Protesters with Water Cannons. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired October 16, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:34]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANS KLUGE, W.H.O. REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR EUROPE: Relaxing policies could propel by January 2021 daily mortality at levels four to five times higher

than what we recorded in April.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI ANCHOR: This hour, the WHO's regional director for Europe giving a very stark prediction on Europe coronavirus deaths. We ask

him this hour, what can be done?

Then --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The voters did not get a lot of straight answers from President Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you take a test on the day of the debate, the bottom line?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I probably did.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's just decency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: America's great divide in full blare last night. The debate was not, ahead.

We are on the ground in Bangkok where Thailand police are dispersing protesters with water cannons.

(MUSIC)

ANDERSON: Tonight, more people are getting sick with the coronavirus in Europe than anywhere else on earth. Anyway that you look at it, we are

connecting you across that story.

I'm Becky Anderson.

This hour, the WHO warning that if Europe takes its foot off the pedal on its COVID policies, deaths could rocket to five times higher than at their

April peak.

Let me take you through what is going on right now both on sickness and on deaths. In cases, in absolute numbers, Europe adding a million cases in

just the last ten days and as you can see in red here that's way more than other badly hit regions based on their populations.

We'll get more on the number of people dying in a moment, but first I want to connect you across the region to Europe's tentative and clearly largely

ineffective attempts at getting this virus under control.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Phil Black in London where the coronavirus is now spreading rapidly according to the city's mayor. With

all key indicators trending in the wrong direction, the 9 million or so people who live here must now endure significant restrictions on their

personal lives.

From tomorrow, people who don't live together won't spend time together indoors. So, no more quality time with friends, wider family in homes,

cafes, bars or restaurants.

Similar restrictions will apply in other regions but in northern England, the situation is even more serious and politically controversial.

Selma?

SELMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Phil, here in Manchester, the mayor outright rejected calls by the government to raise the alarm level of the

city to very high risk. That would come with tougher new restriction that would essentially shut down the nightlife of this city and ban any

households from mixing together. The mayor said he doesn't want to risk the economy of his city for an experiment that the government's own scientists

say might not work.

He's not the only critic of Prime Minister Boris Johnson's strategy. There's a growing chorus of opposition voices calling for a nationwide

lockdown rather than limited regional responses to deal with the surge in cases.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jim Bittermann in Paris, where the coronavirus numbers are all going in a wrong direction.

More than 30,000 new cases of COVID in the last 24 hours, a new record. As a consequence, the government will impose starting tonight at midnight a

curfew that's going to run for at least four weeks, a curfew that will run from 9:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m. each day, something that's going to put a

real crimp in a country that's known for its social life.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Scott McLean in Berlin, where Germany has just recorded a record new amount of coronavirus cases. For the second

straight day, the number of people in the intensive care unit has also jumped by more than a third over the past week.

Now, these numbers come just days after Chancellor Angela Merkel announced new coronavirus restrictions in virus hotspots. Now, this current was

exporting ventilators and taking in foreign patients during the first wave of the virus but this week, Merkel warned that Germany does not have

unlimited resources and how people act over the coming days and weeks will ultimately determine how this country gets through the pandemic.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Fred Pleitgen in Moscow.

As Russia has recorded another record increase in new coronavirus infections for a single day. The Russian authorities recorded more than

15,000 new cases for the first time and the epicenter continues to be right here in the Russian capital in Moscow, with more than 5,000 new infections

in a single day.

[10:05:03]

Now, despite already having approved two vaccines against the novel coronavirus, both of those vaccines were approved without going through the

main tests for safety and efficacy and the Russian authorities are now acknowledging those vaccines will not be available for the broader public

any time soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, as we have seen more people surviving than before because of better treatment and diagnosis, the number of new infections so high

that from Russia to Berlin, many countries breaking their records for coronavirus deaths day after day, incredibly though, this may be the calm

before the storm.

Have a listen to the man who looks after Europe for the World Health Organization.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANS KLUGE, W.H.O. REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR EUROPE: Predictions from reliable epidemiological models are not so optimistic. These models indicate that

prolonged relaxing policies could propel by January 2021 daily mortality at levels four to five times higher than what we recorded in April.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: The W.H.O.'s Hans Kluge joins me now live from Copenhagen.

And, sir, put a figure on the number of deaths that are you are projecting should governments not get things right. How many people do you think could

die and over what sort of period of time?

KLUGE: Well, Becky, a lot depends on how we are managing and taking forward the measures. So the projections but the mantra is it's better to

do too little too early than too much too late, because what we know from the first wave is that wherever the policies prompt and decisive it was

effective. And that is why governments are to step up really together with their people. The key is empathy because people we know are tired of the

measures, empathy and social dialogue.

ANDERSON: You are calling for nationwide national lockdowns, correct?

KLUGE: Absolutely not, Becky.

I want to make this crystal clear. My -- I look at from where this goes (ph), this has been from the beginning, the national lockdown is absolutely

the last resort because this is different with March. In March, the lockdown was a default option because everyone was caught off guard.

Now we know much better. And in that sense, what I am calling for is for the, quote, targeted, proportionate measures escalating, engaging the

communities where we have to look both at the die impact of COVID, and in March, we only look at the die impact of COVID. Now we get wise, we have to

look at what I call the collateral damage, the social tissue and economically.

ANDERSON: Sir, I have to say that with respect the W.H.O. advice is very contradictory when it comes to what governments should be doing now.

I heard what you say. You said absolutely no to nationwide national lockdowns. You say what you described as targeted proportionate measures.

But have a listen to the W.H.O.'s chief scientist told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN, CHIEF SCIENTIST, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: It's a question that I think all governments are really struggling with and it is

really -- it shouldn't be health versus the economy. You know, w have to maintain health, we have to keep COVID under check, and we still need to

let people earn a living and go about their normal lives.

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: So, if lockdowns are not the solution, you're suggesting that what you have just laid out is the answer to these restrictions.

SWAMINATHAN: No one thing is going to work, but a lockdown is a temporary measure. It is done when things are out of control and it's done to buy

time for health systems to put in place the systems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And this -- this is a real dilemma, sir, isn't there?

You talk about targeted proportionate measures. Governments across Europe are struggling with what to do next. They're certainly not progressively

opening up. At present, they are progressively restricting.

But are you, for example -- I mean, we call these things -- we hear these things called different things, so-called circuit breakers, for example,

which are sort of national lockdowns but for a short period of time. You don't even buy that? That's not the answer?

KLUGE: First, Becky, nothing have I heard from Dr. Soumya, whom I'm talking and learning, was contradictory. Basically we say is a lockdown is

a really last resort.

Now on the circuit breaker, the European region are 53 countries.

[10:10:04]

And we have to have a response which is driven by the epidemiology. So you cannot compare the three top countries with the three at the bottom, right?

So, it has to be context specific.

Now, on the mention of the circuit breaker, in certain circumstances, again, if this is decided by the country, the key issue is two things.

Number one, let's take the lessons into account -- mental health, domestic violence, the inequalities, the micro (ph) economic impact and to keep the

health open for no COVID diseases -- this is the first one.

And the second thing to taken to account is by then, the time, those two, three, or whatever weeks to use it, to have a robust track, trace and

isolate system.

ANDERSON: OK. Hans, you have said that a lockdown, a national lockdown should be an absolute last resort.

KLUGE: Yes, yes.

ANDERSON: How bad do things have to get before you believe that we are at that last resort point?

KLUGE: Right. This has to be -- that's now the challenge, Becky. It's a good point, because we see in several places that the science and the

politics are a little bit contradictory.

So the key issue, and that's a main role of the office here, is to foster what I call coherence, policy coherence among the member state, because no

one is safe until everyone is safe. So we have a dashboard and we are updating it, that looks at that one -- for corona figures, your hospital

surge capacity, your ICU capacity, and then, on the indirect impacts.

And then if a country ultimately has to decide itself, but it has to be cycling a little bit forward, a little bit backward because it has to be

livable.

And we have learned a lot how to manage the virus transmitting in the society and at the same time to have an economy up and running, and that's

what Soumya referred to. It's a false debate -- life or livelihood, we have to do both.

ANDERSON: Let's just take what's going on in England at present as an example because this might be easier for our viewers to sort of get their

heads around as we -- as we talk about sort of targeted, proportion at measures, as opposed to a national -- national lockdown. So, in certain

parts of the north, the U.K. government has said you are in Tier 3 measures which mean quite a lot of restrictions, not a total lockdown, but quite a

lot of restrictions.

In London, for example, they are in Tier 2 measures which means not as many.

The mayor of Manchester is arguing the task (ph) with the U.K. government, and saying it's not fair that his city should lockdown or be these, sort

of, Tier 3 restrictions when other cities are not.

And this effectively means that the entire argument is becoming politicized at this point because it is about how much a lockdown is going to cost the

city and its residents, isn't it? What would your advice be to, for example, that mayor of Manchester today?

KLUGE: Well, Becky, I'm advising Europe. I'm not going into one mayor or one government, but let me tell on the U.K. because you invite me to

comment. I find this a very smart way to have these three levels.

Why? Because the onus is put on implementation and on predictability that if you implement this and that measure, you go to that phase and I think

that's very important, very smart, that is predictability.

What I call also proportionate and that the people know with a straight (ph) and clear communication where they are in the spectrum. So, on the

system, I think that's -- I would say -- I would support this.

ANDERSON: Just how worried are you at this stage? I mean, the numbers that we came into this interview on suggesting there could be four or five times

as many deaths by January as there were at the peak should governments not get that right is really concerning, sir, because governments are

struggling to get things right. They don't know what right is, at present.

KLUGE: Right.

ANDERSON: How worried are you?

KLUGE: So, is there a reason for panic, Becky? No. Am I worried? Yes, I'm very worried.

I mean, if you look at the pictures, having said that when we spoke in the summer, that's what we were mentioned because the virus has not changed.

Not worse, not better. And we put off the lid, the virus becomes again more merciless.

[10:15:02]

But it's good news, also. I was mentioning this in the press statement yesterday. There are some simple measures, systematic, generalized mask

wearing, together with a strict control on social gatherings could save in this region about 281,000 lives in six months and that's something that any

government is and should be able to implement.

ANDERSON: I just want you to listen to a family from Liverpool that I interviewed yesterday. We were talking about whether people would be

prepared to go through these, quote, circuit breaker lockdowns. This is what I was told.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFF BROADHEAD, LIVERPOOL RESIDENT: If Liverpool is going Tier 3, which is the highest level, it's still quite open. You can go to a pub or a bar

or a restaurant. It means, we're going to go (INAUDIBLE).

I certainly would have favored that short circuit, that quick circuit breaker that says, let's just shut everything down for two or three weeks

and bring transmission levels down, so at least we go back to a bit more of a normality after that point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: So I just want to press you on this point. I have a couple other questions I want to go on to, but you talk about targeted, proportionate

measures. The U.K. government, for example, wondering it should go through these sort of circuit breaker lockdowns at present.

I wonder whether it wouldn't be better for the W.H.O. to say, in standard, this is what you should do for the next three weeks, Europe? Why the

hesitation from the W.H.O? Why not just say, this would make sense?

KLUGE: Well, I don't think there's hesitation, Becky. I'm talking regularly with Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer of the

U.K., for which I have a tremendous respect, with Professor Martin McKee, and other people of the Schengen (ph) group.

But our role is not to point out countries, it's to work with countries upon their request but the U.K. and some other countries are one spectrum,

which absolutely need more strict measures. There is not any doubt about.

About the interview, Becky, let me kindly listen to, let me say that I have a lot of empathy with the people, and in that sense, what is very important

to show the empathy and have the social dialogue and inform the communities and co-create the solutions. And there are many, many good examples of that

one.

ANDERSON: OK. Thank you for explaining your position. It is so important that people understand what it is that the W.H.O. believes should be done

next and how your advice fits into the kind of wider story of governmental policy at this point.

A new W.H.O. study finding that the drug remdesivir has, quote, little or no effect on mortality for hospitalized patients and it doesn't help people

get better faster either. This drug, of course, is being made famous, Hans, by the American president who promoted it heavily.

How big a blow is this to hopes of an effective treatment? And just walk us through where we are at when it comes to therapeutics.

KLUGE: Right. So I always like to look, Becky, at what is known and what is not known. So let's take on what is known here. Two things are known

about the drug you mentioned.

The first one is that the trial as of today is inconclusive. So it's still ongoing. No, it has not stopped. It's ongoing, but inconclusive, number

one.

Number two is that it is a very expensive drug. So, that obviously also carries the question then, is it worthwhile to pay for it?

But the bigger point is that this arguably is longitudinal surveys, right? You go forward. So, you have nine months in the pandemic.

Now we see the results. And good science need this time. So in that sense, these are the -- where we are and we are moving forward the same.

For vaccines, it's moving forward. This was an unprecedented speed, but we cannot force the time. This is good science.

ANDERSON: Hans, I'm going to take a very short break because having you on this show at this hour during what is this enormous crisis across Europe

now and its second wave, and such a -- such a mess across the world, it's invaluable that we are having this discussion.

So let me take a very short break. I'm going to get you to stay with us.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:04]

ANDERSON: All right. Before the break and now we will be speaking to the WHO's regional director for Europe, who has already told us that strict

controls in the European region could save 281,000 lives over the next 6 months. But that is still not calling for national lockdowns.

Hans Kluge is with us now.

And you've put a figure on the number of lives that could be lost should governments not get things right. What is your appeal to the people of

Europe at present?

KLUGE: That's a great question, Becky. I would like to appeal, first and foremost, I want to send the people of Europe for behaving and adhering to

the measures, because we often speak about the small proportion of the population but the people of Europe have really been great.

But it's time limited. There will be an end. So, we have to stick together and go through it with the same pace.

It is true that no transmission in elderly people is less, more in the younger age cohort. And that's why we see five times less deaths than in

April, because also, let's not forget that positive view, that cases are much higher but the slope is slower because what we have to do together is

to avoid that the transmission again will spill over to our vulnerable groups.

So, we have a small window of opportunity, so let's stick together and co- create ways to be happy, to be socially active like I see from my teenage daughters, it's possible, but not spread the virus.

ANDERSON: And I have to assume that the reason that you make this point is that you have seen people acting irresponsibly, many of those youngsters

around the region and they have ended up being spreaders of this virus, haven't they, quite frankly?

KLUGE: Yes. But I wouldn't -- you know, Becky, I know the quote, the tweet from President Macron yesterday. President Macron, he was announcing

tighter measures in a number of cities. He told, it is hard to be 20 in 2020.

I mean, youngsters don't want to lose a year of their life, so let's not point the finger but do what we are doing, we are working now with

anthropologists, socialists, to de-medicalize (ph) their approach a little bit, and we're trying to understand the service, what is going on in the

communities, what is it that bothers the people? And based on that one, work together.

Like in Copenhagen here, in Denmark, the students are being asked to design together ways how to keep universities open and the works, because the

schools has an open message -- we have to do everything possible to keep the schools and the universities open.

[10:25:12]

ANDERSON: We are well aware that there a significant cases in a number of universities, not least those in England and in other parts of Europe.

You're absolutely right. I mean, the appeal is there. It is an act of responsibility that people must try and sort of help stop spread this.

This is the second wave in Europe, worse than the first. When Europe tames this, how can it stop a third wave? Until we get a vaccine, is there any

hope of normalcy at this point?

KLUGE: You know, Becky, I always say hope tries (ph) the lost.

So, absolutely yes. Where we will find a treatment or a vaccine or the virus for a time being has not changed, it has not become stronger or

weaker. Will it become weaker and it will become endemic instead of epidemic because it is part, remember, of this so-called coronavirus and it

becomes, that season of flu? We don't know. It can go different directions.

But let's remember today, it is coronavirus. Tomorrow, in a couple of decades, it can be another one of the globalization. I mean, by 2040, 75

percent of the people in the world will live in mega cities. So the preparedness is very important.

I think if you look to certain countries, that the people understand now better why a mask is important, why the hand washing, the basic respiratory

-- so I think we're learning. We try to live with it.

But, of course, I definitely would like to come to the day that we can hug each other and we can kiss each other again, and we don't have to have that

one. But I'm hopeful. Yes, I'm hopeful.

ANDERSON: With that, we're going to leave it there, sir. It's a good point to end. It is good to end on a note of optimism. It's a pleasure having you

on, as I've said --

KLUGE: Thanks.

ANDERSON: -- so important that we hear from you.

Hans Kluge for you, the W.H. man -- W.H.O.'s man on Europe.

Well, here in the UAE, and most specifically here in Abu Dhabi, they have taken a strict approach to wearing masks and social distancing, unlike some

places in Europe. So, we spent the first half of this show discussing and by all accounts it has worked.

Let me tell you, while debates go on about vaccines elsewhere, look at this, the Emirati foreign affairs minister Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan,

getting his shot of a vaccine today. Another senior foreign official, Hend Al Otaba, also got a shot of the vaccine. Advanced clinical trials have

been going on here for months and now two advanced clinical trials of both Russia and from China.

Ahead on the show, rebellion is gripping the Thai capital and police are trying to get protesters to go home.

More on this live from Bangkok.

Plus, the warring sides in Yemen's conflict conduct their largest prisoner swap. In the next hour, we'll talk about whether that could lead to peace.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK0

[11:30:56]

ANDERSON: Well, from the outside in, if you ever wanted a clearer picture of American politics last night pretty much summed it up on the night they

were supposed to debate, Joe Biden and Donald Trump instead came into American living rooms by a pair of dueling town halls. Same time, different

networks, same questions, different answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: As far as the mask is concerned, I'm good with masks. I'm okay with masks. I tell people wear masks.

But just the other day they came out with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it. So --

GUTHRIE: Well, they didn't say that. I know that study.

TRUMP: That's what I heard and that's what I saw.

BIDEN: The words of a president matter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

BIDEN: No matter whether they're good, bad or indifferent, they matter. And when a president doesn't wear a mask or makes fun of folks like me when

I was wearing a mask for a long time, then, you know, people say, well, it mustn't be that important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, their personalities on full display. Joe Biden relaxed and full of facts, speaking in depth about the issues, apparently, not very

exciting to be honest. And Donald Trump combative and refusing to give an inch as he openly sparred with the moderator.

It was truly the careful career politician versus the bombastic reality TV star. Should we have expected anything less? Probably not.

And in a campaign that has been dominated by domestic issues, there was at least one moment where the conversation turned to America's role on the

world stage. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peace is breaking out all over the world. Our troops are coming home. Serbia is talking to Kosovo and the Arabs and Israelis are

talking peace which I believe is a modern-day miracle what's going on.

Does President Trump's foreign policy deserve some credit?

BIDEN: A little but not a whole lot. We find ourselves in a position where we are more isolated in the world than we have ever been. Our allies, our

go it alone, our -- you know, America first has made America alone.

I do compliment the president on the deal with Israel recently. But you know, if you take a look, we're not very well-trusted around the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Joe Biden referring of course to the normalization deal between the Israelis and the Emiratis and Bahrainis.

Well, all of this comes just 18 days from the U.S. election day, but with millions of Americans casting early votes every day, almost 18 million have

already voted, including 2 million in what is known as a battleground state of Florida.

We'll leave that for the time being and get you halfway across the world to Thailand where w are seeing unprecedented revolt. It is the people against

the king.

As you can see, police using water cannon to disperse protesters who are defying an emergency decree. These protests have roiled the country, for

over three months now, the prime minister being asked to step down. He says he will not quit.

This week, protesters surrounded the royal motorcade. Following that incident, two people could face life in prison.

Jonathan Miller is there. He's in amongst it in the Thai capital with more for you -- Jonathan.

JONATHAN MILLER, CHANNEL 4 NEWS: Hi, Becky. Yeah, dramatic scenes on the streets of Bangkok this evening. As they do every few years. There's

violent spasms that engulf this city, the last time 2014.

Tonight, well yeah, three months as you say of protests. It was inevitable. Absolutely inevitable that they would some point come to a head and tonight

it kind of feels like the genie's out of the bottle a bit. We have turned a page, opened a new chapter because what happened today was, you know,

hasn't been seen in this movement so far, been mostly peaceful.

What did actually happen reminded me of what went on in Hong Kong. I don't know if you remember there, but, you know, there were protests and then the

police arrive and the protesters pop up somewhere else. And today, exactly that happened here.

The protest was meant to have taken place at exactly the spot where that big protest went on yesterday. When tens of thousands of people defied an

emergency decree brought in by the government which said that those that violate it would be met with a full force of the law.

And today, the police sealed off the entire commercial heart of Bangkok. There were riot cops everywhere but just down the road the protest

recalled. Word went out and within a few minutes, thousands of people had once again converged.

Now, I was sitting there at that time watching this going on, people hurling insults at the prime minister who just spoken and refused again to

resign and then suddenly something happened, rumors went around. There was a bit of a stampede and people rushing around the place, and I went down

into the heart of the demonstration at that point, and this is what I saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: The police continue to move in, causing panic in the crowd. There is real anger here now.

Listen to that. One of the chants they're chanting is slaves, slaves. They call the police slaves of the dictatorship. The police are just there. They

have come down from police headquarters just up the road.

But these people are rushing back to the scene here having fled all back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: Those cops have been standing up the road with nothing going on and then suddenly a wall of riot police with three water cannon trucks and

that's where the dramatic scenes played out because there's some tear gas used and there was colored dye put in the water cannon and a number of

protesters, a small number, but a substantial group attacking that front line of police with the riot shields.

It really did have echoes of Hong Kong there. They were throwing barricades at the police over their heads. There were missiles being thrown in each

direction. The cops just carried on slowly pushing up the road to the point that eventually after an hour or two, they reached the intersection and

they now occupy that particular intersection.

By then, virtually, all the protesters had left and they retreated down the road to Chulalongkorn University nearby. I think they have gone home. You

might be able to hear the pouring rain here. It's not a time to protest outside but they came back today and they did exactly that.

ANDERSON: Jonathan Miller on the story for you, thank you, Jonathan.

Coming up, instead of talking about the big matches this weekend in Italian football, the focus shifted to the wave of new COVID-19 cases affecting the

league. More on that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:42:52]

ANDERSON: We have been looking at the surging number of COVID-19 cases across Europe during this show. The numbers are horrific.

The world of sport not immune of course. In Italy, Saturday's Milan Derby impacted by a wave of infections as we get ready for a big clash this

weekend between Inter and AC Milan.

Amanda Davies is here with world sport.

Ahead of that, how much of an impact on the games is this going to have?

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the good news is that this game as things stand is going to go ahead. Both teams very much in with a

shout of taking that crown off Juventus this season and both teams saw what happened a couple weekends ago with Napoli being punished when they didn't

turn up for the game against Juve because they had all of those positive tests. They followed the advice of the local government instead of the

football advice.

The Inter manager Antonio Conte, he's got really good record in these derbies, but he's never been in this position before. He has six players

ruled out, two of the AC Milan squad ruled out as things stand. They arguably are in a slightly better position because they've got three

players who have come back having recovered already, including Zlatan Ibrahimovic. We know what he adds to any team.

But there's a bigger question now, Becky. These cases are continuing to rise, so what is football's role with this happening? Social responsibility

of football?

So, really interesting talking point and the good news I suppose from an English perspective is another big derby this weekend, and with that one,

we are able to talk about the football.

ANDERSON: That's absolutely right. You're talking Everton/Liverpool I think. You have to wonder on the pitch in terms of the game how much first

team players have to go down before it just becomes clear that the game can't go on? I know you'll be doing this story in "World Sport". That is

coming up after the break.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WORLD SPORT)

[11:00:00]

END