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U.K. Signs Contract For First Human Challenge Trials; "Human Challenge" Trials Pose Ethical Challenges; Argentina Has More Than One Million Cases Of COVID-19; Italy Gives Mayors Power To Lock Down Public Squares; President Trump Repeatedly Attacks Dr. Fauci For Telling The Truth; Ireland To Reimpose Nationwide Lockdown For Six Weeks. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired October 20, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all know a vaccine is needed to help end the pandemic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fighting city of EU has become one of the first of an experimental COVID-19 vaccine to public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is part of the emergency approval use granted by the Chinese government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alistair Fraser-Urquhart desperately wants to be infected with the Coronavirus.
ALISTAIR FRASER-URQUHART, 1DAYSOONER VOLUNTEER & COORDINATOR: I wake about thinking about challenge trials and I go back to bed thinking about
challenge trials.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard to be optimistic about people even taking a vaccine when they won't wear a mask.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The fate of the United States will be decided two weeks from today, the fate of a Coronavirus vaccine much
further down the road. I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to "Connect the World."
We're connecting a world that can feel too divided too often, but right now on opposite ends of the scientists and health experts are working towards a
common goal for everyone, a vaccine against COVID-19, the single greatest challenge that we have faced this year, so just how close are we?
Well, this is a dashboard of where we are right now listing how far along the various vaccine phases are around the world, and while it looks like a
lot of info, it actually belies a fair complex, more complex patchwork of trials and challenges going on globally.
Well, these are the two important developments you need to know about this hour. In London the government has just signed a contract for the first
human challenge studies into COVID-19, a major step in getting a vaccine out.
While in China an experimental dose of vaccine is already on sale to some. We will get the picture from China in a moment. First, CNN's Phil Black met
a volunteer in the UK who is keen to take part in the race for a vaccine and is willing to expose himself to potential risk if it helps the greater
good.
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FRASER-URQUHART: Yes!
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PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alastair Fraser-Urquhart desperately wants to be infected with the Coronavirus.
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FRASER-URQUHART: I've just got the email.
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BLACK: He's part of the campaign group "1DAYSOONER". It's been busy recruiting COVID willing volunteers, so far tens of thousands around the
world, and lobbying the UK government to use them for potentially risky research.
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FRASER-URQUHART: I wake up thinking about challenge trials. And I go back thinking about challenge trials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: Challenge trials involve giving healthy people a potential vaccine, like this one developed by London's Imperial College and then later testing
it by deliberately dosing them with the virus.
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FRASER-URQUHART: By taking that small risk on myself I can, you know, potentially protect thousands of other people from having to be infected
without consenting to it.
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BLACK: Advocates say challenge trials are more efficient than the usual method of waiting for large numbers of test subjects to be exposed to a
specific virus in the real world. With numerous COVID-19 vaccines being developed, some scientists think challenge trials could help identify the
best of them sooner.
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DR. MARTIN JOHNSON, SENIOR MEDICAL DIRECTOR, HVIVO: At the moment governments are just having to buy at risk and lots of different vaccines
hoping that one of them is going to work.
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BLACK: Dr. Martin Johnson works for "hVIVO" the testing company hired by the British government to set up challenge trials for three possible
vaccines. Its London facility has years of experience running similar programs with influenza and other viruses, but working with this new
Coronavirus is far riskier.
The trials will be conducted at London's Royal Free Hospital which has the UK's only level Category III bio-containment ward and the first round of
volunteers will be exposed to the virus without getting a vaccine.
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DR. JOHNSON: We're basically watching the disease in motion right from the very start of inoculation right through to the disease going out of the
body, so it gives us an absolute view of what is happening to the human body during an infectious process?
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BLACK: The Company says challenge trials can be conducted safely because treatments are now available like the antiviral Remdesivir and the steroid
Dexamethasone, but the World Health Organization recently found Remdesivir doesn't appear to save COVID-19 patient lives or help them recover sooner
and the data on Dexamethasone is still early and limited.
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BLACK: The ethics of the trials will be closely scrutinized. England's regulator will have to be convinced that the risk is worth the potential
reward.
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TERENCE STEPHENSON, CHAIR, ENGLAND'S HEALTH RESEARCH AUTHORITY: A challenge trial would have to make the coregent argument that the benefits to society
greatly outweigh the risks and that that evidence or those data could not be achieved in a safer way.
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BLACK: Volunteers will be strictly screened to exclude known risk factors so those selected must fit a limited profile. They will have to be young
and very healthy. Alastair hopes he's in with a chance.
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FRASER-URQUHART: If ever there it was a time to push the boundaries and discover how quickly we can do stuff and how well we can do stuff and to
take on risks for other people it's now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACK: Phil Black, CNN, London.
ANDERSON: Right. Joining me now is one of the world's leading experts in human challenge trials Andrew Catchpole is the Chief Scientific Officer for
the "hVIVO" the company helping to lead the trials in London. It's a pleasure having you on, sir, and thank you.
Let's start with some quick questions, a speed round, if you will, for those viewers who may be new to all of this. Firstly, what's the difference
between a clinical Phase III trial and a human trial?
ANDREW CATCHPOLE, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC OFFICER, HVIVO: A human challenge study is where we directly inoculate the volunteers with the virus, so that
differs to a normal Phase III trial where people in Phase III trials are given the vaccine and then asked to lead their normal life and therefore
it's totally by random luck whether they become exposed to the virus or not.
ANDERSON: Right. We'll do more on that in a moment. How many people will be involved in this trial?
CATCHPOLE: So this first trial is all about determining the lowest amount of virus required to cause an infection, so we're starting extremely low
levels. And then if nobody gets infected we'll start with the next level up and keep going until we get an established infection. So it's difficult to
say exactly how many subjects will be required for this trial because it will depend on how many doses we test, so somewhere between--
ANDERSON: What about the demographics? Got it OK, 50 and 90 well, what about demographic, yes, go on?
CATCHPOLE: It's all about minimizing risks so therefore, the demographics are associated with making sure we're using the lowest risk possible
volunteers for this study for this disease so we'll be working with 18 to 30-year-olds, for example.
ANDERSON: How long will the trial take?
CATCHPOLE: So the trial itself will take anywhere between two to four months depending on how many doses of virus we need to test before we're
able to establish an infection.
ANDERSON: And what are the main risks?
CATCHPOLE: So the main risk for any clinical trial are that the disease progresses further than we anticipate which is why we're doing a number of
factors to minimize those risks. Firstly, having an extremely low dose of virus, and then we're using only subjects which have minimal risk or no
known risk factors to the disease as well as also using antiviral as a preemptive measure to further minimize the risk severe disease.
ANDERSON: Got it. OK. This hasn't yet got ethics approval from UK regulators. Why is that?
CATCHPOLE: It's just the stage of the process we're at. All clinical trials must be independently reviewed by an Ethical Committee and then in addition
to that reviewed by the regulators. We're at the stage where we've now got this contract with the UK government. We've designed the study and we're
just about to then submit our plans for the study to both the ethical review board and the regulator, the NHRA.
ANDERSON: OK, let's just interrogate some of those lines of inquiry that we've just been sort of laying out. Let's get back to the demographics, for
example. You said your trial is 18 to 30s. These Phase III clinical trials, for example, for a Chinese vaccine that are happening here in the UK have
about 125 nationalities taking part so far. That's a high level of demographic diversity. You're just talking about age here. Is your trial
diverse enough?
CATCHPOLE: So because this is the first time it's been done we need to take a very safety first cautious approach so to start with we'll only be using
ethnic groups with no known risk factors, but as the trial progresses, absolutely. Our plans are to widen the diversity as we get the data to be
able to include more and more different ethnic groups.
ANDERSON: Right, got it. And apologies I talked about a UK trial. It's a trial that's going on here in the UAE for the Sinopharm Vaccine which is in
Phase III clinical trials here. "hVIVO" says that a human trial is only possible now because of the promising performance of antiviral treatments.
[11:10:00]
ANDERSON: You just said that yourself, like Remdesivir and Dexamethasone, but the W.H.O. said that Remdesivir doesn't appear to save COVID-19 patient
lives, and the data on Dexamethasone is still limited. Do questions about their efficacy worry you?
CATCHPOLE: We have to remember that the contexts of those studies that you've just quoted from the W.H.O. are completely different than the
context of the antiviral that would be applied here. So the context of those two studies that you quoted are all about whether severely affected
subjects who - patients who have got this disease in the community and are hospitalized and then you give them the antiviral and then it's looking at
those clinical outcomes.
That's a very different scenario to what we're working with here. What we're talking about in this clinical trial is healthy adults with minimal
disease only just at the point where you can even detect virus and then administering it, so it's a very, very different paradigm that you're
comparing.
ANDERSON: Oh, OK. Have a listen to what the W.H.O. Regional Director for Europe told me just earlier this week about vaccines.
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HANS KLUGE, W.H.O. REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR EUROPE: You have nine months in the pandemic, and now we see the results and good science needs this time.
So in that sense that's where we are and we're moving forward. The same for vaccines is moving forward at its own precedented speed, but we cannot
force the time. This is good science.
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ANDERSON: By suggesting that they cannot force the time, what he's saying is these things are going at lightning speed. Are vaccine trials to your
mind being rushed?
CATCHPOLE: So everyone is trying to expedite them, but I can't speak for all of the trials but we're certainly, the "hVIVO" is collaborative is not
rushing. We're taken very careful here. So I think what is being rushed through is that the regulators are looking at things very much quicker and
turning around expedited and there's no undue care and intention being applied here, no.
ANDERSON: So as the world waits for a vaccine, countries are grappling with the second waves, imposing new restrictions but resisting full nationwide
lockdowns. The W.H.O. told me that the lockdowns are a last resort. I wonder, you know, given your resistance in all of this, just how bad do the
numbers need to get before we get to these last-resort nationwide lockdowns once again?
CATCHPOLE: I think we only need to look at how all of the different governments around the world have responded so differently to realize that
for every person you ask you're going to get a different opinion on that. So there's multiple ways of tackling this, and we just need multiple
different arms which is why challenge studies themselves are yet again another way of tackling vaccine problem. So it's about having multiple
tools in your toolbox to do what we can to help the pandemic.
ANDERSON: Back to the work that you're doing and certainly the experts are saying it's still if not when with regard to a vaccine in this race for a
vaccine. Should we be looking at getting a vaccine in the coming months? I just wonder what the point of these human challenge trials are which are
effectively speeding up the process but with respect and I heard what you said there are still risks to people's lives?
CACTHPOLE: So, while there are vaccines in late-stage clinical development right now, we all hope that they will be successful. I think it's extremely
unlikely that any single one vaccine will be magic golden bullet here and protect people entirely from the disease.
We just need to look back in history that vaccines tend to need to go through multiple iterations to get better and better improvements, and,
therefore, protect people better and better as they get further developed.
So even if there are vaccines which prove to be efficacious to start with, they are unlikely to be completely efficacious for all at-risk groups which
is why we still need ways of testing new vaccines coming to market.
And indeed comparing new vaccines to those that are licensed and ask the question is it as good as ones already out there and isn't it an
improvement and therefore perhaps we should switch to this new vaccine being developed so you still need quick ways of identifying and testing the
vaccines as we progress.
ANDERSON: This is fascinating. Your insight is enormously valuable, and we wish you the best, of course, because the best for you means the best for
humanity at this point.
[11:15:00]
ANDERSON: Thank you very much indeed for joining us. China announcing some progress in its vaccine trials, Chinese vaccine officials say around 60,000
people have taken part in Phase III trials, and so far no serious adverse reactions have been reported. At the same time, one city is already
offering a vaccine to some members of the general public. David Culver has more from China for you.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They arrived early from all over China, folks lured to the International Manufacturing Hub of Yiwu City,
specifically to this small community hospital. This is one of the first public locations where China's rolled out an experimental COVID-19 vaccine.
They began injecting people over the weekend, the cost, about $60 U.S. for two doses. Word spread quickly. Some showed up Monday thinking they would
get a shot Andy Ku among them. This is something really important to you, I asked her, yes she replied adding because well if you have the vaccine it
is much safer to leave the country.
For more than 20 years she's worked in import and export in Chile and returned home to China amidst the outbreak and she flew to Yiwu the night
before we met her, it is a two-hour flight from her home in Southern China, eager and admittedly a bit desperate for immunity. And so they told us they
don't it and you have to go find place.
Hospital staff confirmed to CNN that they had ran out, local officials later announced this distribution was only for those with specific foreign
travel needs and pre-approval who was not the only one disappointed. Notice the groups of people waiting around the hospital parking lot.
Some of them traveled in from neighboring provinces wanting the vaccine. Originally from Syria we met - as he pulled up with his young daughter and
wife in the back seat of their car. He was curious if not also a bit hesitant.
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CULVER: If you were to walk in there and they had it, would you take it today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, I don't know. I don't have answer.
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CULVER: As you can go through this main entrance here we do know folks are going in to inquire about how they might be part of this trial essentially,
because you've got to remember this is part of the emergency approval use granted by the Chinese government. This is not an actual release of an
approved drug as of yet.
The vaccine distributed at this the Yiwu hospital is made by Sinovac Biotech CNN took you through the Beijing based Biotech company in August.
It is one of more than a dozen Chinese companies working on a Coronavirus vaccine.
At the time of our visit in the late summer they were constructing a new facility to meet the production demands while still going through Phase III
clinical trials which have not yet concluded. It all seemed to be happening at rapid speeds.
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HELEN YANG, SINOVAC BIOTECH: None of the staff is sacrificing any quality of our vaccine, so because Sinovac's goal is to provide a vaccine with good
quality, good safety and good immunogenicity to the people in the world.
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CULVER: China has been trying to push past the early allegations of mishandling cover-ups and silencing of whistle-blowers surrounded the
initial outbreak in Wuhan and instead officials here have highlighted their swift and seemingly successful responses to many cluster outbreaks the most
recent in Chengdu last week following a major travel holiday.
After only a handful of confirmed cases surfaced health officials began strict contact tracing and tested more than 10 million people in less than
a week and life, it seems, quickly returned to near normal again. But that's mostly within China, a bubble of sorts.
For some whose livelihood is rooted in other parts of the world where cases are surging once again, their only hope may be a vaccine Annie Ku (ph) and
the others now on to the next location to track one down. David Culver CNN, Yiwu, China.
ANDERSON: Just ahead on CONNECT THE WORLD who is Donald Trump targeting now?
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Anthony Fauci responds to the sticks and stones from the U.S. President. First up though, Bolivia seems to have COVID on the run
while Argentina grapples with a grim new milestone. How the pandemic drama is playing out in Latin America is up next.
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ANDERSON: This hour I'm going to be connecting you to the skyrocketing Coronavirus cases around the globe from Europe to the U.S., but first I
want to zone into South America, a continent telling a bit of a different story. The place is marked in a green area have seen at least a 10 percent
drop in new cases since last week which is good news with those in yellow just about holding steady.
Across all of Latin America the rate of new infections is on a mostly downward trend after peaking in August. Bolivia has seen one of the most
dramatic declines, recording fewer than 70 cases on Monday. For a bit of context it was recording some 2,000 cases a day at the end of August.
Argentina though appears to be the unlucky exception. It's the fifth country in the world to surpass 1 million confirmed COVID cases and new
infections are still on the way up. Let's get you to CNN's Matt Rivers who has got more on this for you.
Latin American countries making up half of the top ten worst affected countries, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, also expected to tick over the 1 million
mark soon but cases declining elsewhere. What's the big picture here? Why the rises? Why the falls at this point?
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky, I think when we're talking about the outbreak across Latin America it helps to talk about the big
population centers across the region. You know, it's Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Argentina, Peru, and those are the outbreaks that have really made
up the worst of this part of the world.
And you're right when we have seen cases slowly go down in most of those countries, but I think it's also important to remember that how far is low?
How do you know is down? I mean, you're talking about more than 20,000 cases still per day in Peru, thousands per day here in Mexico and thousands
in Colombia in Peru as well.
And certainly not low enough to the levels, for example, what we saw in Europe after the first wave. Those countries got to a pretty low point. We
never got to that point here in Latin America, and as with Europe you can see that things can quickly turn around, and that second wave can really
strongly make a quick impact.
And look no further than Argentina which right now is going through its worse of its outbreak right now. And you're going to see Peru, Colombia and
Mexico they're going to pass 1 million cases relatively soon so the question is what happens moving forward?
Cases have slowly gone down, that's absolutely true, but the fear is that it doesn't get down low enough so when the inevitable second wave as it
were really hits across the region, what level - what's our baseline that we were starting at in this part of the world.
And one more thing I would bring up Becky is testing positivity rates; you know this is the metric that Johns Hopkins says it the best way to see how
much of a control the country has over its outbreak?
Of the countries around the world, the top three countries in terms of it testing positivity rates, Argentina, Costa Rica and here in Mexico, it just
shows you that the governments aren't really fully taking a look at the outbreaks in these countries the numbers as high as they are don't actually
tell the full story.
ANDERSON: Yes. That's fascinating. Look, I mean you talked about this sort of inevitable second wave which sounds terribly pessimistic but of course
we've seen exactly that in Europe, and governments facing this great dilemma what to do? How to restrict? Where to restrict?
Whether you're going into some sort of full nationwide lockdown or these sorts of regional circuit breakers? What restrictions are in place or are
still in place across the region and what is expected to happen going forward?
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RIVERS: Yes. I mean, there's no question that Latin America and a lot of places locked down pretty early on in this. I mean, look at Argentina. I
mean, there are been some parts of Argentina that have been in lockdown since March. There are still a lot of countries like Chile, for example,
Colombia; there are still a lot of travel restrictions across this region.
There's no doubt about that, and that's definitely had a positive impact on the ability of this region to handle this outbreak. But then you look at
what's happening. I mean, in Argentina, for example, they are lifting some of those lockdown restrictions because the economy has just been battered
by those restrictions.
They start lifting them, and then their cases if up. Brazil, if I want to fly to Brazil right now I have no problem doing so. Come here to Mexico, if
you feel like Becky, you'll have no problem getting in, and so that's why if you speak to epidemiologists they are going to say, look, as countries
begin to open back up. What happens?
The cases will go up, and that's why talking about that baseline is so important. As the numbers have gone down, yes, very gradually, but what's
the baseline for when they start to go back up, and we know from the experience in Europe that that can certainly happen.
You know, things hit here in Latin America relatively late as compared to other parts of the world but we've followed the same kinds of trends that
we saw in Asia and in Europe, and we're just going to have to see what happens over the next couple of weeks, Becky, but it's something that
epidemiologists are concerned about.
ANDERSON: Yes, worrying times but as you say there are some good areas where we're seeing some positive numbers and one can only hope, you know, a
second wave isn't inevitable although sadly the story seems certainly across Europe would refute that. Thank you.
Italy taking a regional approach to tackling what is a second wave of COVID-19 the government leaving restrictions up to local officials. Coming
up, we're going to talk to the country's Deputy Health Minister about why that is happening and how it's going, and the Coronavirus has made its way
to the Elyse as the French First Lady enters self isolation.
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ANDERSON: Well, the entire world is waiting for an end to this Coronavirus pandemic with a vaccine being dubbed our best escape route. Until we have a
viable and safe vaccine let alone distribute one, how do we stay safe?
Well, in Europe more restrictions are coming to play as the continent battles resurgence in cases. Ireland preparing for some of the most
stringent measures restricting residents to five-kilometer radius for the next six weeks, meanwhile the Czech Republic making face masks mandatory
once again.
[11:30:00]
ANDERSON: Cases there like much of the region heading into the wrong direction. Italy ramping up its capabilities as cases have steadily climbed
since the beginning of the month. Nearly 50,000 COVID tests have been conducted there in the last 24 hours with just under 10,000 of those being
positive.
Well, on top of testing, new restrictions, several regions in Italy from Campania to Lombardi will soon be under curfew to help slow the spread of
the virus. Bed Wedeman has more for you from Naples.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Northern Italian region of Lombardi is about to introduce a overnight curfew beginning
Thursday evening 11:00 pm to 5:00 am curfew will be in effect in a region with 10 million people.
Only those who have to go out for reasons of work and health will be allowed to go out of their homes. It's not clear how long this curfew will
be in place. Also, another proposal on the table but not yet approved is closing shopping malls over the weekend, and, of course, it was Lombardi
that was the worst hit region of Italy in the first wave of this pandemic.
Now Sunday evening the Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte made it clear in a press conference that he was going to leave it up to local officials
now to decide specific measures to try to stop this latest surge in cases.
It is clear that the Italian government wants to avoid a repeat of the more than two-month lockdown that this country went through earlier this year.
I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN reporting from Naples.
ANDERSON: Well, my next guest is the Italian Deputy Minister of Health. Pierpaolo Sileri he joins me live from Rome to talk more about Italy's
approach to the virus and thank you for joining us. Europe facing a real dilemma it's tough for governments around the region. Restrictions like
many other countries right now in Italy differ by region with Mayors in charge of what's going on. How effective are the local lockdowns?
PIERPAOLO SILERI, ITALIAN DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Right now I think the numbers are increasing but are still under control. Obviously there's a
difference between regions and that's why we're trying to organize things according to the local situation.
For other situations I do intend for a simple number of cases but also the response of the system in terms of testing, swabs, beds, et cetera, et
cetera. Obviously right now differently from February and March diffusion of the virus is all over in the Italian territory.
In February was in the north and the massive lockdowns did stop the virus across Italy. Right now do we have several outbreaks all over Italy?
Several areas are very well controlled, and in this area it's not - it's not completely true there.
ANDERSON: So what's the baseline here? Should things not improve with these much milder restrictions on a local basis, what happens next?
SILERI: I think the cutoff is not the number of increase, but how fast this increase and how the symptoms respond for a sample. I think that if you
have an increase in numbers of ICUs beds that are occupied, there you need to do something.
Right now ICU beds that are occupied are close to 800. It's a very low number compared to what we served in March when we had more than 4,000 beds
that were occupied simultaneously for Coronavirus, but this is not true - coronavirus, there is an increasing number of cases and an increased number
of admissions in the hospital and I believe there a lot of lockdown may be helpful to decrease the infection of the virus. So we will - for the next
few weeks.
ANDERSON: What sort of support is the central government providing on a fiscal basis? I mean, we've seen regions in France grappling with central
government to get more support for businesses that are effectively being told to close again. We're seeing a similar story in the UK.
[11:35:00]
ANDERSON: What's the story in Italy and how concerned are you that by the end of this year as the support for businesses stops what happens then? Do
hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs?
SILERI: Obviously we need to try to help obituaries and we did this over the last seven months and we may face to necessary unrest over the next few
month. It's a very difficult question to answer because it depend for how long we need to fight against this Coronavirus.
So I believe that what we are observing now is very different from February and March, and I don't think we will encounter a - an entire nation
lockdown. So I think probably we will face temporary lockdowns for maybe a couple of weeks in some regions and some areas and this will be less
compared to what happened from February to May when we did close almost everything.
But to answer your question I think it would be very difficult even because, you know it's in the economic system that's not just Italy and
this pandemic is offending the entire world. So I think the result of this will be more clear a few months from now, even in one year or two years
from now.
ANDERSON: Sure. Listen, keeping schools open. One of the main reasons many countries are resisting full nationwide lockdowns, are you seeing COVID
cases coming from schools, and if cases stay on this current trajectory in Italy is there a case to say that you must close schools and universities?
SILERI: I don't think - I don't think the schools are a problem right now, and we're not observing a lot of cases in the school. Actually the majority
of the cases - occur in families so, you know, when - when you're outside your job or, you know, wherever there are no protocols.
So usually in the domestic area so right now I think school is very, very - we observe problems where probable are not respected and usually when you
see a - on Sunday with your family there are no protocols. There is only you and you need to keep the distance and keep the mask.
But, you know, in the school or - TVs where they have protocols or jobs there we are not observing increases or diffusion of the virus. Mainly it
is outside and the reason while we are stopping some recreational activities.
In the North of Italy they are closing - before midnight and keep everything closed until 5:00 in the morning. I think there isn't a problem
the main problem for the spread of the virus but not the school, not the school.
ANDERSON: And thank you for explaining because this is literally one of the most pressing concerns for so many governments around Europe as is the idea
of Europe sticking together on this. Margaritis Schinas, who is the Vice President of the European Union's Commission for Promoting "Our European
Way of Life" which is an odd title in and of itself, spoke to me about how the EU is coping during this pandemic. I just want you to have a listen,
sir.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARITIS SCHINAS, VICE PRESIDENT, EU COMMISSION FOR "PROMOTING EUROPEAN WAY OF LIFE": Health is not such a competence of the European Union and
this is a problem because people have expectations from the European Union in an area where the European Union has not much legal competence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: By which he means that health isn't sort of a coordinated file, as it were, across Europe which may change, I guess, going forward. Are you
receiving any or enough support from the EU?
SILERI: We are - we are discussing a lot with Europe, and our main stories obviously in contact with the other entire health minister in Europe. But
obviously a strategy should be done all together, for example, for travel for example for lockdowns or even for diagnostic tests.
[11:40:00]
SILERI: We are facing something very hard for the next six, seven months, so I think that right now we need a strategy that this - I think the way to
fight against the virus. I mean, what's happening in the North of Europe, for example, in France and in the UK, something that will happen there
also.
They reached almost 20,000 cases, 15,000, 20,000 cases and this would happen in either and since we need to survive with this virus and go ahead
for the next few months, obviously we need something for Europe basically. I think--
ANDERSON: Sir, thank you for your time, and it's been a pleasure. I'm going to have to stop - close this interview out here because we've got to just
get on with a couple of other things, but thank you. Very valuable to hear your perspective the Deputy Health Minister in Italy.
Well, as we mentioned, thank you, Ireland ready to move into what they call a level five alert, the country's highest level of COVID-19 restrictions.
In just minutes we'll speak to a family about what this will mean for them.
And ahead on "Connect the World" that the next U.S. Presidential Debate, Republicans demanding a focus on foreign policy but the Biden camp says
that's just a way for Donald Trump to avoid questions on the pandemic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, folks, we're now just two weeks out from that election, yes, two weeks until Americans elect leader of the free world, a decision
that will be felt right across the globe wherever you are watching the show.
In this final sprint to the ballot box, you'll be forgiven for feeling some political fatigue and that's for those of us watching from afar. Imagine
what it feels like being an American voter is. Well, after all the battle lines were drawn long ago Donald Trump downplaying the Coronavirus and
boasting about the economy Joe Biden slamming the administration's mishandling of the pandemic while pleading for national unity.
Well, in this last leg every day counts, and don't the candidates know it. Mr. Trump last night admitting it's been a rocky few weeks for his
campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to win. I wouldn't have said those three weeks ago. Three weeks ago, two weeks ago, I don't know. I wouldn't have said it. It
was tougher for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, part of that turmoil, of course, was President Trump's recent bout with COVID-19, an issue he continues to downplay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had it we've COVID. People are saying whatever just leave us alone. They are
tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots, these people, these people that have gotten it wrong. Fauci is a nice guy. He's
been here for 500 years.
[11:45:00]
TRUMP: He called every one of them wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, keep in mind 31 states currently reporting an uptick in cases in the U.S, the national average just under 60,000 COVID cases a day.
To most, well, these are pretty dire numbers to. Mr. Trump it is not the main headline.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They are getting tired of the pandemic, aren't they? Getting tired of the pandemic. You turn on CNN, that's all they cover. COVID, COVID,
pandemic, pandemic, COVID, COVID, COVID you know why, they are trying to talk everybody out of voting. People aren't buying it, CNN, you dumb
bastards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Attorney and Former South Carolina State Representative Bakari Sellers joins us to look into all of this. On CNN and on CNN
International we tell this story because it is such an important story to everywhere, everybody wherever they are watching in the world, and that's
the response of the U.S. President. How crucial are these final two weeks, sir?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, here speaking as a dumb bastard I guess per the President of the United States I will tell
you that you echoed those sentiments correctly, that people are dying at extremely high rates for a virus that did not have to be this bad if we
would have had leadership that takes it seriously.
It's not only a public health issue but also an issue of our economy which had to slow and shut down in many areas and a lot of places are going back
into shutdown mode. These last two weeks are critical for one phase and one phase of the election only.
That's the GOTV phase that's get out to vote. I don't believe there are any undecided voters in this country right now. If you're still struggling with
whether or not you're going to vote for Joe Biden or Donald Trump you really just haven't been paying attention.
And what we're seeing is the highest turnout in many states in the history of elections, and so I do believe that the energy is there. You just have
to spend the next two weeks getting your voters to the polls.
ANDERSON: So let's have a look at the CNN Poll of Polls which averages across ten key battleground states showing a tight race in seven states
heading into this final fall out. Biden is however holding sizable advantages in Pennsylvania, Michigan and in Wisconsin, three states, of
course that Trump won in 2016.
You say that you're pretty convinced that there are no undecided voters at this point. So if these polls were correct, that would mean that Biden
would win this thing by some distance, but the Biden Campaign is absolutely out there saying don't get complacent? They are worried at this point that
this isn't going to be an out and out victory. Why is that?
SELLERS: Well, I mean, you have to be worried. Any campaign worth its salt would be telling you to don't count the polls. Polls don't vote. People do,
and so while the polls show that he's ahead in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, three states, the proverbial blue wall that he needs to
maintain. If he wins those three states he's the President of the United States.
You know, we still have to make sure that we're doing the ground, the blocking and tackling as we say, doing the groundwork and laying the
foundation in states like North Carolina, in Florida, in Ohio, in Iowa. I believe that Vice President Biden is going to have a very strong night in
the blue wall, but I also think he's going to carry Arizona.
I think he's going to do extremely well in North Carolina and he is probably going to win Florida, but it's going to take the work and that
means people have to show up and vote.
ANDERSON: You said there are no undecided voters which suggest that there's no point of having a last debate but there will be one. At least we think
there will be one until one of the candidates tells us that they are not going to turn up.
We heard Donald Trump reflecting on a few rough weeks for his campaign, but he says he's on the road back to victory. Biden's Campaign has urged
against complacency, of course. As we look towards this debate, this final debate, what do you think we should expect, sir?
SELLERS: I don't know. I don't think anybody knows with these two. I mean, will they show up? I don't know the answer to that. In politics, this 2020,
the writers have been completely out of control if this was a Sitcom or your favorite show on Netflix so I have no idea. I know that Donald Trump
needs this debate more than Joe Biden.
I don't think this debate will change any minds. Donald Trump is goes to rant and rave over the moderator. They actually have a mute button now
which probably is a bad idea.
ANDERSON: Yes.
SELLERS: But we'll see how it plays out. It's going to be 90 minutes of a car crash, and, you know, people like to watch car crashes. So we'll see
what happens?
[11:50:00]
ANDERSON: Bakari, it's a pleasure having you on. I mean, you made me laugh out loud. When you laugh to this stage you really don't know the answer to
that question. If it was about anything else I'd be disappointed though I'd had you on to commentate. I totally get it and I sympathize. But thank you
for doing your best.
SELLERS: That's all I can do. Thanks for having me.
ANDERSON: I really appreciate honestly at this point.
SELLERS: Have a good day.
ANDERSON: Bakari Sellers, I mean, it's almost getting ridiculous, isn't. Anyway you got still two weeks to go and we have to take this very
seriously and we'll do our best to try to get you some answers of what's going on in the U.S.
Meantime, still ahead Ireland is going on its highest alert to tackle a surge in Coronavirus case. Yes, this story is an important one. We'll talk
to a family in Dublin about life under some of what have are some of the strictest restrictions going into place in Europe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Some really stark numbers just coming into CNN showing the scope of the new peak in Coronavirus in the UK. The government there, reporting
241 new COVID-19 deaths today that's more than three times the number of deaths reported on Monday.
The update goes on to say that each of those people died within just four weeks of their positive test. Well, from Italy to Switzerland to Slovenia,
we are seeing country after country in Continental Europe taking urgent steps to try to slow a devastating new wave of the virus.
Now Ireland is just hours away from becoming the first EU country to return to a full nationwide lockdown. Stay-at-home orders will take effect on
Wednesday and will last six weeks. All non-essential businesses will close, although schools will remain open.
Even getting fresh air and exercise is going to have its limits. People will have to stay within five kilometers of their home. We've been to
Liverpool this week, and we've been to Austria to talk about the human toll of this lockdown and the pandemic in general, and we've talked to real
families who are living through, just been reporting on it.
We just wanted to quite frankly speak to people who are living this, and now we want to go to Dublin for you. Meet the Martins. Dad John, mom
Caroline and sons James, Ben and Tom. What's up, guys? Welcome to the show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Hello! John.
JOHN MARTIN, FAMILY FACING NEW COVID RESTRICTIONS: Yes.
ANDERSON: What are the restrictions, and how do they impact your daily life, my love?
MARTIN: I'll tell you. Come tomorrow night at 12:00 we're going to be hit again with a level five. So it's our second time being around this corner.
We're going to find it restricting but fortunately this time they are keeping the schools open so that is really going to help us obviously.
So once we have that, we - Carol and I can focus on our work which will really going to help us but this five-kilometer restriction now, it's only
for exercising and for basic shopping that we're allowed to leave our homes.
I have my folks close enough so I can get down to them to help them with the shopping if need be, but, unfortunately, Caroline's folks are all the
way down in Cork so she hasn't seem them in person in quite a while.
[11:55:00]
MARTIN: So it's - I suppose the difference this time, but the lockdown, last time we didn't know what was coming. This time we know what's going to
happen. We know, you know how difficult it's going to be for all of us, you know, and so we are just hoping.
ANDERSON: Yes.
MARTIN: We're going to come up with a vaccination.
ANDERSON: You make a good point. At least you sort of know what's coming. Caroline, how do you feel about these new restrictions? They are pretty
stringent, aren't they?
CAROLINE MARTIN, FAMILY FACING COVID RESTRICTIONS: They are, yes. It's going to be very strange with all the shops closed and I feel it's really
hard on the shop owners and the retailers and the hairdressers and the pubs and everything closed but you know I think it's a momentous need must, we
really need to try to flatten the curve again.
We did a really good job at the start back in March so it's just to get it back down again, you know, from a business point of view. It's been full on
for John and myself and an awful lot of people and I think these six weeks, especially with retail, there will be a lot of shops that won't reopen
which is going to be really hard on the economy.
ANDERSON: Yes, sure. Listen, I mean, I'm hoping - I see the lads have got there - is that their Irish - Irish Rugby top on there or those football
tops?
J. MARTIN: Flying the flag for you.
ANDERSON: Well, I hope you can still throw a ball around whichever shape it is. James, I understand it's your ninth birthday in a few weeks, and I know
that you won't be able to celebrate with your friends. How does that make you feel?
JAMES MARTIN, FAMILY FACING COVID RESTRICTIONS: Well, it makes me feel sad, but I hope I'll do something nice for birthday anyway.
C. MARTIN: There will be cake.
J. MARTIN: Yes, there will. I hope there will.
ANDERSON: Bless. Well, I'll tell you what, from all your friends at CNN and around the world, we wish you a happy birthday ahead of time.
J. MARTIN: Thank you.
ANDERSON: You'll have a much better one next year, I'm sure. Happy birthday ahead from all of us here thank you, family Martins. Thank you for watching
everybody around the world. Stay safe. Good night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: This hour, COVID-19 surging in the United States just two weeks out from the election. My colleague, John King wrapping up that all
together for you as the election campaigns get into warp speed.
END
