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Top U.S. Diplomat in UAE; New Measures to Curb Second Virus Wave in Sweden; Pfizer to Submit for Vaccine Emergency Use Authorization. Aired 10- 11a ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:25]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, destination Abu Dhabi. America's secretary of state jets into the Emirates following a whole load

of other power players this week. We look at what is going on.

And you are looking at one of the most fought over pieces of land on the planet. We speak to Morocco's man at the U.N. about his country's war in

the Western Sahara.

Then --

UNKNOWN: But even among the sick you meet advocates for prioritizing freedom, and he knows the suffering COVID-19 can cause.

UNKNOWN: It shouldn't be easy to close down the society, I believe

ANDERSON: We take you to Stockholm, whether Sweden's free range approach to lockdowns really works.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON (on camera): Hello and welcome to the program with me, Becky Anderson.

This hour, fast developing news on fronts, one in Abu Dhabi and elsewhere with some more good news on the vaccine.

Pfizer and BioNTech set to apply for an emergency use authorization for their coronavirus vaccine. This is the first vaccine to seek authorization

in the United States. We'll speak to a member of U.S. President-elect Joe Biden's COVID-19 advisory board, Dr. Celine Gounder, later this hour.

First up, though, we begin with U.S. strategic intent, political theater, and the Middle East's economic and cultural power house that is this

nation, the United Arab Emirates. New American foreign policy is being rewritten in these ancient lands this week. It is bigger than history, more

like a Shakespearian plot, power state craft and controversy all unfolding together before our eyes, all -- at the center of it, all America's top

diplomat.

Mike Pompeo is here in this city as I speak, courting the power brokers of Abu Dhabi, he gauges his own chances of winning the White House in 2024.

Remember, he helped normalize relations between the UAE and Israel. He also shook up decades of U.S. policy in Israel, just Thursday this week visiting

a Jewish settlement in the west bank, a first for the U.S. secretary of state.

Now, keep in mind, most of the world views the settlements as an illegal confiscation of Palestinian land, but the visit was supported by

evangelicals home in the states.

We have (ph) Sam Kiley connecting us to events here in Abu Dhabi. First up, let's connect to the bigger picture in Israel with Oren Liebermann -- Oren.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, Sam, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo wrapped up his visit here with a stop at the Friends of Zion Museum

on Friday morning, and that may underscore what this trip was really about. That museum is an organization run by evangelical Christians and that

likely was the primary target of much of this trip for Secretary of State Mike Pompeo as he eyes a bid for the White House in 2024. He'll need

evangelical Christian support if that's to have any success.

In his time here, his visit certainly made a few groups incredibly happy, first, of course, Jewish settlers in the occupied West Bank and the Golan

Heights. Second, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli's right wing government, and third for Pompeo, that crucial group of evangelical

Christians, especially with the decisions to label BDS as an anti-Semitic organization and the state department wouldn't do business or fund any

organization that works with them and the decision that products produced in settlements and area state could be labeled made in Israel. It's the

evangelical Christian base likely to be excited by this and that for Pompeo's future is what he's looking for -- Sam, Becky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: OK, thanks, Oren.

Sam, let's just step back for a moment to assess what is going on in the region with regard to Israel and the Arab states and what this might mean,

one for the Israeli-Palestinian issue and two for the wider region. Three months ago, the UAE right now announced it was normalizing relations with

Israel in return for the suspension of annexation. What has happened since then, Sam, and how have what we witnessed the last few days play into what

might be some negotiation between the Israelis and the Palestinians going forward?

[10:05:00]

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONJDENT: Well, the first thing we've seen, Becky, is real and profound deepening of this normalized

relationship between the United Arab Emirates and particularly lately also Bahrain, with the visit of the Bahrain foreign minister to the Jewish

state, something that not many years ago would have been considered almost unthinkable is now a commercial and a diplomatic reality and also seen

memorandum of understanding being signed between Etihad Airlines, the airlines -- the national airline here in Abu Dhabi with El Al, the national

airline of Israel, and indeed, direct flights already begun between the Emirates and Ben-Gurion Airport, again, something that a year ago would

have been seen as unthinkable.

And I think one of the interesting aspects of this level of activity, very much of it centered around Abu Dhabi, the capital effectively or in reality

of the United Arab Emirates, but very much on the front foot of the diplomatic effort here, has seen the crowned prince play a critical role in

terms of diplomacy.

Now, whether that plays well with a potential Pompeo running in 2024 I don't think it matters at all to Emirates. What they're really keen to do

is cement this relationship, get a strong relationship and build on a growing friendship between Saudi Arabia. There's been talk of normalization

between the Saudis and Israel. We've already seen that in Sudan, again, brokered here in Abu Dhabi.

Now, what this means for the Palestinians, we've heard from the Palestinians frequently and fairly predictably, that they're extremely

angry and think they've been betrayed by this, and that really frankly is the consensus of a great deal of academic thought with regard to the

Palestinian dreams of their own independence state alongside Israel.

But as a number of your diplomats have said, and I've been saying for sometime, this also gives a degree of leverage for the Arab nations with

Israel that simply didn't exist before. Normalization gives them a voice of whoever runs Israel at the moment. It's Benjamin Netanyahu, but it might

not be indefinitely. And that could also play to an advantage for Joe Biden in future possible negotiations.

And we've seen I think some of that reflected in the visit here of King Abdullah just in the last couple of days. King Abdullah, of course, king of

Jordan -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah. Let's just have a look at who has been doing the rounds in the Middle East this week. In Jerusalem, of course, Mike Pompeo has just

arrived in Abu Dhabi. Alongside him, the Bahraini foreign minister in Jerusalem, Abdullatif bin Rashid Al-Zayani, and that was historic.

In Abu Dhabi this week, Mike Pompeo just arrived the king of Bahrain, King Abdullah of Jordan, as you rightly pointed out, and indeed, the Greek prime

minister for a whole load of other reasons that we will discuss at a later date.

Look, these historic Abraham Accords signed earlier this year came with the promise of a more secure, stable and resilient Middle East of the future.

Abu Dhabi is clearly playing a key role in the shifting tectonic plates. I just wonder how significant that role is and what it means for the wider

region going forward.

KILEY: Well, I think it really means that Abu Dhabi is emerging as the sort of Geneva, if you like, the diplomatic brokerage headquarters for a

bloc that is standing and being strongly welded together by the diplomacy, the diplomatic energy that's coming out of here, to stand full shoulder and

full square against Iran whoever becomes, whoever is the president of the United States.

This is a bloc that now includes Israel and Saudi Arabia, traditional long- term enemies effectively shifting their animosity away from each other, alongside other allies and towards Iran, at the time when the International

Atomic Energy Authority had said that Iran could be three to four months away from breakout point or ability to produce a nuclear weapon. Of course,

they've increased capacity to produce nuclear materials because the Trump administration withdrew from the nuclear deal. Joe Biden says he'll go back

in.

Again, Biden has more leverage, thanks to the sanctions that Trump has imposed on the Iranians. But we've also seen a very interesting development

I think from the Emirates more widely, in which they were getting involved in a lot of military activities in, particularly in Yemen, which they've

now withdrawn from, they've drawn a lot of criticism from the United Nations, alongside Russia, Turkey and others for a breach of arms embargoes

in Libya, and we're beginning to see a dialing down of that exercise of hard power, often the temptation when you got weaponry as to go out and try

to use it.

[10:10:08]

And a shift towards much more energetic soft power, really heavily demonstrated I think by this normalization relationship, which the Israelis

are immediately celebrating.

It will be interesting to see in the future the extent to which they do what they like effectively with regards to the Palestinians and still

maintain those very warm relations that begun already with the Gulf Nations and, of course, Bahrain, which is a Gulf nation in the early stages of

normalization, Becky.

ANDERSON: Sam Kiley is in Abu Dhabi for you.

I'll leave you with this from Mike Pompeo in the past couple of days, on Iran. He has said the maximum pressure campaign is working, sanctions will

continue and the United States will not hesitate to impose painful consequences on those who engage in sanctionable activity. Throughout the

coming weeks and months we'll impose new sanctions on Iran.

He, of course, part of the outgoing administration, things will change once Joe Biden is inaugurated post-January 20, 2021.

(MUSIC)

ANDERSON: Well, next on Pompeo's agenda will be Saudi Arabia, where he will meet Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Saudi Arabia is also hosting

the G20 Summit for the first time this weekend. It will be a virtual leaders event given the pandemic and despite questions over its human

rights record, Riyadh is keen to tout its progress and what it calls its role and influence on the global stage.

It's still not clear if President Trump will take part in what is this virtual G20, especially given the challenges at home. Saudi Arabia is

significant to its administration. It's the first country that he visited as president and we will speak to our international diplomatic editor Nic

Robertson in Riyadh in a moment.

First, he has more on how Saudi Arabia is preparing for the summit and exactly why it matters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Riyadh's electronic billboards are lit up. Saudi Arabia is hosting the G20, the

world's leading economic power summit, a much anticipated big deal for King Salman and his son, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, better known as MBS.

The catch is because of COVID-19, world leaders won't be coming in this summit. It will be different. They will be virtual. It means there will be

no important bilats and pull-asides, and for the Saudis it means they won't get to showcase the reforms they've been making.

Since MBS got power, religious police got sidelined, music concerts became legal. Women got more freedom, including the right to drive.

HAYA SHAATH, MDLBEAST: We had stage one, stage two, and my favorite stage is Saudi beast.

ROBERTSON: For many women including concert organizer Haya Shaath, it's been liberating.

SHAATH: Unimaginable but here we are.

ROBERTSON: And do you think it's here to stay?

SHAATH: Absolutely.

ROBERTSON: Can you put this kind of thing back in the box for people?

SHAATH: I don't think so. I don't think so. There is an energetic shift in people and people's behavior.

ROBERTSON: But MBS could use the makeover. His plans to reform the country got tarnished by the killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi two years

ago.

President Trump boasted he kept MBS out of trouble over Khashoggi.

Today, MBS's critics want the G20 to hold Saudi to account over other alleged human rights violations, like the detention of female activists,

including Loujain al-Hathloul. Amnesty International saying G20 leaders should use the summit as an opportunity to stand up for the brave activists

whose genuine commitment to women's empowerment has cost them their freedom.

ADEL AL JUBEIR, SAUDI MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: The idea that she was and her friends were detained because of advocating driving is

preposterous. The charges have to do with receiving money from hostile governments in order to pass it on to dissidents and hostile groups in

Saudi Arabia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Saudi Arabia is also rooting women's empowerment at the core of vision 2030.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are managing director --

ROBERTSON: Even so, the summit itself has women's issues a central theme, discussed according to organizers in dozens of sessions involving tens of

thousands of people in 109 countries. The headline issues, though, will be combating COVID-19, debt relief for poor nations to handle its impact.

[10:15:06]

DR. TAWFIQ AL-RABIAH, SAUDI MINISTER OF HEALTH: The whole system of the world is as strong as the weakest system, so supporting the health systems

in all countries is very crucial.

ROBERTSON: On this, the G20, may find Trump tough to convince. It's his last scheduled major international event of his current presidency and he

has vetoed summit communiques in the past. His track record on COVID-19 at home is not good. Unclear if he'll play spoiler or showman for his Saudi

friends.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, it may be a virtual summit, but our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Riyadh to connect us to the

significance of this event firsthand.

Coming as it does at the end of a year ravaged by the pandemic, this is a gathering of countries that make up something like 80 percent of the

world's GDP. This summit, of course, also ahead of the transition of one U.S. president to another.

Your thoughts?

ROBERTSON: Yeah, I think the big thing that people looking for out of this how to help the poorer countries. You know, the G20 has been around since

2008. It came into existence to help out with the massive economic crisis in 2008.

Now, again, everyone is expecting a massive economic crisis to be coming out of the COVID pandemic. What they want to do is not only sort of reach

their arms around the world and work together to have a comprehensive approach as we heard from the health minister there about tackling the

disease itself but also helping out those poorer nations whose economies will be hardest hit.

There's something discussed here which is a debt service suspension initiative and the idea is if you can get the G20 nations and critically

here China to get involved and to address debt relief for some of these poorer countries in a way that China hasn't engaged in a global community

before over this and China has a responsibility to many of the countries because it's been a big lender to these poor nations and they do sometimes

end up in default, so bringing China on board and everyone else for the debt relief would be huge and significant.

I think, you know, when you talk to the Saudis about the fact that you don't know if President Trump is going to speak and you have no idea if he

speaks at this summit what he'll actually say, will he try to help you or will he work against it, because we've seen him do that over the summits?

You know, they're already the leadership, the king and crowned prince reached out to President-elect Joe Biden and offering sincere

congratulations.

They can work and they say this quite clearly, they can work with whoever is president. They work in a bipartisan say in the United States. So, they

got question marks maybe about what President Trump will do this weekend vis-a-vis the G20, but I think their eye is now fixed on Biden and that

relationship going forward for the next period of the presidency, you know, specifically here talking about Yemen, specifically here talking about Iran

and possibility of a new nuclear deal with Iran, which is what President- elect Joe Biden spoken about. So, tat's where they're looking right now, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah, fascinating.

Nic Robertson is in Riyadh for you this evening, and, Nic, thank you.

And just ahead on the show, we'll talk more about this region and how some of the changes we are witnessing here in the Middle East and Gulf could

play out in the Biden era. I'll speak to the president and CEO of the International Crisis Group, Robert Malley, who is a former adviser to the

incoming Biden administration.

That's not all that is ahead. We'll take you inside protests that are gripping Peru.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Anger against the political class in Peru is still boiling hot.

We want the whole congress gone because we truly don't believe in any of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, the country goes through three presidents in just over a week.

Plus, a long simmering conflict in a remote desert area in Northern Africa could explode to a wider regional mess. Why? Well, we will speak to

Morocco's U.N. representative about what is the cease-fire collapse there.

First up, though, it's become known as the Swedish model, but some doctors there now say the light touch approach to the COVID-19 pandemic isn't

working. We're live in Stockholm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:22:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEFAN LOFVEN, SWEDISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): This is a new norm for the entire society, with a whole of Sweden, don't go to gyms,

don't go to libraries, don't host dinners, don't have parties. Cancel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Pretty emphatic stuff from Sweden's prime minister there announcing strict new ways to behave as a powerful second wave of COVID-19

hits his country.

But he was quick to point out that he does not believe in a total lockdown. So, what gives? Well, you all know from watching show that Sweden has taken

a very different approach to everywhere else when it comes to lockdowns. A so-called Swedish model shuns state controls and instead emphasizes the

role of the individual to do what's right.

But that's not such a clear cut solution it seems. The number of people who died far higher than in neighboring countries, all of which had tougher

measures.

So, how could that Swedish model be?

Let's get you to what's really going on with CNN's Phil Black in what looks like a very cold Stockholm for us this evening.

What's the story there, Phil?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, the front line doctors that we've been talking to here have expressed a lot of frustration, really,

because they believe this country is deep into a second wave which they feel could largely be avoided had tougher action been taken sooner.

But, of course, Sweden is famous for not being forceful with the coronavirus, relying instead on recommendations to the public, but the

concern is that advice isn't being followed. And so, as you've touched on, the Swedish government is changing its messaging. It is now much more

urgent in the advice that it is giving people in terms of what they should and shouldn't do.

The concern, though, is that this tougher line, these tougher measures are simply coming too late.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK (voice over): A gym in central Stockholm. Sweden's government says this is dangerous. But it won't shut them down. And those working hard at

this socially distanced class don't want to stop.

ASA LARSSON, INSTRUCTOR: A workout for me is all I've got right now. So, I need to, I need to do this as long as I can. And for all the members as

well, they are so happy that we're still doing it.

BLACK: Perhaps they feel differently if they saw this.

Uppsala hospital at the ICU, a ventilated patient is being prepped for helicopter transfer to another facility with more free beds.

Are you surprised that you're already having to juggle capacity?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not surprise. No. That we expect it.

BLACK: After a quite summer, the coronavirus is again surging in Sweden.

This isn't like the spring peak. It's nowhere near as intense yet. But it feels to the staff here so familiar. They are tired and frustrated because

there is a sense that this could have been avoided.

[10:25:00]

A powerful second wave hasn't changed the essence of Sweden's distinctive approach to slowing the spread. Still, no force lockdown, a few rules,

mostly just advice on social distancing with an emphasis on personal responsibility. On the frontline, they say it's not enough.

RAFAEL KAWATI, HEAD OF INTENSIVE CARE, UPPSALA UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: We need to put some, you know, consequences for not doing this.

BLACK: Enforcement?

KAWATI: Yes. Enforcement.

BLACK: Sweden's official list of recommended behavior is tougher now. It reads more like a voluntary lockdown, discouraging all nonessential mixing.

ANDERS TEGNELL, SWEDEN STATE EPIDEMIOLOGIST: Can you hear me?

BLACK: But Anders Tegnell, the architect of Sweden's approach admits too many aren't following his advice.

So that's the key difference. Your recommendations aren't enforceable?

TEGNELL: So far, I mean, during the spring, this worked pretty well. We managed to get people to stop meeting to greater extent. If we get back to

that level of follow up on our advice, I think we can handle the situation also doing this fall.

BLACK: Going flex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BLACK: Make him look angry. Tegnell is lionized here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has been our like, a national hero in this crisis. He put out guidelines that have kept our freedom.

BLACK: There is broad support for the country's policies. Even though officials admit Sweden failed its elderly. Almost 90 percent of people who

died so far were over 70. And Sweden's total death toll is more than four times the combined figure of its Nordic neighbors, all of which embraced

tougher measures.

BLACK: Hello.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome.

BLACK: But even among the sick, you meet advocates for prioritizing freedom.

Anders Edsvik (ph) knows the suffering COVID-19 can cause.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shouldn't be too easy to close the society, I believe.

BLACK: Sweden is sticking with the model that relies on consent instead of legal thoughts. But it's now asking on people to voluntarily give up more

than ever before and it's not yet clear they are willing to do it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK (on camera): Becky, the Swedish model is often associated with the concept of herd immunity, if you let it run enough in the community and the

population, that natural immunity builds up to the point that it will eventually stop the spread. The officials here say that was never the goal,

but they did hope that greater exposure would result in enough immunity in the population to at least slow down that spread somewhat.

They now say there is simply no evidence to suggest that is happening during this new wave -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes. Phil, tremendous, thank you very much indeed.

While Sweden struggles, American hospitals facing a nightmare scenario.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: They're still trying to find places to put COVID-19 patients, all of the beds that you see in this section curtained off, at the moment,

did not exist before the pandemic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: CNN is with doctors and nurses on the front lines, where there are not enough beds and too many patients needing ventilators.

Plus, we speak to a member of the Biden-Harris COVID transition team. That is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:44]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL GATES, CO-CHAIR, BILL & MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION: By next Thanksgiving, the vaccines, the great innovation there, will have brought

this to an end. So, you know, one more round, probably six to eight months, we're asking people to make sacrifices to save a lot of lives, and then

wearing the mask which I don't consider that much of a sacrifice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, that's Bill Gates, of course, and he is voicing optimism, that a vaccine will provide that light at the end of the tunnel. But

experts warn the coming weeks will likely be brutal in the U.S., and the coronavirus death toll will keep climbing.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warning the public not to travel at all for Thanksgiving next week. Usually one of the busiest

travel times of the year. On Thursday, the country topped another daily high of new cases, more than 187,000, according to Johns Hopkins

University. And more than 2,000 Americans lost their lives from COVID-19, the most in any single day since May. As we speak, more Americans are

hospitalized with the virus than before, the number topping 80,000.

Well, CNN's Omar Jimenez spoke with health officials in Texas, facing a capacity nightmare. We will show you his full report next hour, but just

wanted to give you a sense of what he has found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you first have to make that declaration, what is the first thing that goes through your mind?

DENISE MOURNING, ACUTE CARE NURSE PRACTITIONER, ODESSA REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: Please, not another one. You know? It's a prayer. It's inevitable

and we know it's going to happen, but the probability of it being a good outcome is very, very low.

DR. ROHITH SARAVARAN, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, ODESSA REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: We are sending home patients on home oxygen to recover at home.

That's not something we would normally do but there is no space.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: More of Omar Jimenez's reporting coming up.

White House coronavirus task force coordinator, Dr. Deborah Birx, has been traveling the country to encourage Americans to take the necessary steps to

protect themselves and others.

In an exclusive CNN interview, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta got her perspective on this week's surge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Was the lack of testing and continued inadequate testing the original sin here?

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE COORDINATOR: It's not only the number and type of tests but using that in the optimal way, so

that we can get the most answers for the quantity that we have. Certainly I'm a big proponent of testing and expanding testing. I actually think

testing alone is a public health intervention. If you constantly are testing people and isolating the positives, then you have a very different

outcome. If you look at the universities had mandatory -- mandatory testing, they ended up with less than 1 percent of the study body.

GUPTA: Right.

BIRX: Once they did testing the way we were doing it in America, primarily focused on symptomatics, contact tracing, isolating and quarantining, they

had 8 percent to 10 percent of their student body infected.

GUPTA: Was there ever a strategic decision not to test as much?

BIRX: I think there was not, that was not a strategic decision not to test. There was a strategic decision to test more until a particular time

frame in the late summer when you saw the CDC guidance change to symptomatic testing. And I -- from the -- I really -- I can't tell you how

strongly I believe that symptomatic testing and contract tracing is only -- well, it's less than half of the equation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, that's Deborah Birx there with my colleague, Sanjay Gupta.

Now joining me is Dr. Celine Gounder, a member of the Biden-Harris COVID-19 transition team.

It's good to have you with us. Your perspective on these latest numbers out of the U.S. and indeed on the news on vaccines.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: Well, in terms of the latest numbers in the U.S., it's terrifying.

We are in an exponential phase of spread. Things will get worse before they get better. We know that there are a lot of people out there in the

community who've been effective, who may not even have symptoms yet, but who will be getting sick, who will end up in a hospital and who will end up

dying.

[10:35:08]

And on top of that, we have many holidays coming up from Thanksgiving to Kwanzaa to Christmas, to Hanukkah, that people will be wanting to celebrate

with family and friends, and those are some of the riskiest situations for spread of the virus because people let down their guard, they're more

likely to forego mask-wearing, to have closer contact indoors with people they trust indoors.

And unfortunately, the coronavirus hitches a ride on that trust, on that love and you're much more likely to be infected by those people that you

love and trust, and to infect them as well.

ANDERSON: Chris Cuomo spoke with Dr. Anthony Fauci on the specifics of Thanksgiving, which, of course, is next Thursday.

Here's what Dr. Fauci said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Each and every family unit and I mean this seriously,

Chris, is -- and I'm not dictating what people should do, that each and every family unit should do a risk/benefit determination about the

holidays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: What's the official position of your advisory board at this point.

GOUNDER: Well, our advisory board is endorsing the CDC position, which is advising against travel during the holiday season, and it's not just

travel. It's really the idea of spending time with people outside of your household bubble, and your household bubble could be family. It could be

roommates, whoever it is that you're having daily contact within your home.

So whether you're traveling across the country, or you're just going down the block to spend the holidays with somebody else outside of your bubble,

that can be a very risky situation, but at the same time, we also realize that not everybody is going to take that advice and so for those who don't,

the things that we would strongly recommend they do is wear a mask, at least when they're not eating and drinking and understanding that you can't

wear a mask when you're eating and drinking, to try to do those celebrations outdoors at a distance of six feet from other people, and if

you're indoors, to open windows and doors as much as possible, to improve ventilation.

ANDERSON: The news on vaccines for your team, as you consider and plan policy for Joe Biden going forward must be good news, so just your thoughts

on where we are at with regard to vaccines and I do want to explore how Joe Biden's COVID-19 plan will differ from the Trump administration's? Let's

start with vaccines.

GOUNDER: Sure. So in terms of the vaccines, the science is very exciting. We finally have a couple candidates that look promising in terms of their

effectiveness, in terms of their safety profile. Those are going to be and are being submitted to the Food and Drug Administration, the FDA, for

emergency use authorizations. We fully anticipate those will go through the vetting. We'll have one or two available to us by the end of this calendar

year.

The plans are to really prioritize people who are working on the front lines, health care providers and other essential workers for initial

vaccinations, as well as people living in very high-risk settings. So, for example, nursing homes.

Another important through line through all of that is understanding that communities of color have been hit disproportionately hard by the pandemic

and really trying to prioritize their needs and ensuring equity and distribution of the vaccine.

ANDERSON: The numbers are pretty horrific. I mean, let's be quite frank, they are shocking out of the United States. We've seen, you know, a real

second wave really take so many European countries out and it seems as if the U.S. is not learning from that experience. So, let's talk about

specifics on Biden's plan and can you be categoric in saying that a full lockdown is off the table as far as Joe Biden is concerned going forward?

GOUNDER: A lockdown or shutdown is just not on the table. So, that is not an approach we're pursuing. I think of this as -- in the spring, we were in

coronavirus control 1.0. You can think of that like an on and off light switch, and we've learned a lot since then. We better understand how the

virus is transmitted, contact for example, services, hand to hand contact, does not seem to be a major source of transmission. It's really is a

respiratory virus. So, predominantly droplets and some degree aerosols.

So based on that information, based on the epidemiology of seeing who's been getting infected and what circumstances and why, we're now in

coronavirus control 2.0.

[10:40:06]

So, it's more like a dimmer switch where we can dial up and dial down restrictions that are far more targeted, so that includes being

geographically targeted based on zip codes, that includes being targeted with respect to the types of settings we're restricting. So, that might

mean restricting indoor dining, but allowing take out and outdoor dining to continue. That might mean restricting in person learning for high school

students and college students, but allowing elementary school students to still go to school.

In terms of major differences with current --

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: Could I stop you for one sec.? I've got about 60 seconds.

I just want to -- I want you to be very clear on how this will be different from the Trump administration's policy.

GOUNDER: Yeah.

ANDERSON: And how do you deal with the 70 million Trump supporters, many of whom do not agree that there needs to be any restrictions at all it

seems when it comes to COVID-19?

GOUNDER: So, in terms of differences with the current administration, I'll give you a couple of examples. One is really emphasizing the importance of

masks. These are cheap, highly effective and do not shut down the economy. So, if you want to see an economy keep going, masks are really important,

and they protect you and they protect others,

Another major area of emphases, which we heard from Dr. Birx just now is testing. The current administration has been actively discouraging testing.

We are going to massively ramp up testing, for all of the reasons Dr. Birx outlined. You cannot control something that you do not see and asymptomatic

infections of people who have no or minimal symptoms are for all intents and purposes invisible and yet they are contributing to the problem.

ANDERSON: Celine -- Dr. Celine Gounder, it's a real pleasure having you on. Thank you very much indeed.

So, you are a member of the Biden-Harris COVID-19 transition team and I do hope that you will make some time to speak to us for our international

viewers' sake going forward. Thank you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, it will be a family affair for Tiger Woods at this year's PNC Championship. The golfing superstar plans to team up with his 11-year-

old son, Charlie, at the event in Florida next month.

How is his swing, we ask ourselves?

Let's ask CNN's "WORLD SPORT's" Amanda DaviEs.

Do we know?

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, from what we've seen, Becky, it is pretty damned good. Certainly, a whole lot better than mine.

Have a look at these pictures, it's really what a prospect for the rest of the field. A mini tiger, a tiger cub.

And you don't just get Tiger, I'm sorry, you just don't get Charlie, 11- year-old Charlie, a lot of competitors, a lot of Charlie's rivals in recent times have had Tiger Woods as his caddie.

[10:45:03]

I mean, can you imagine that, as a prospect on the junior tour and Charlie's done really well recently actually. He's won a couple of junior

tournaments in Florida. And people really talking about him as one to watch in the years ahead. I don't know whether he wears the famous red t-shirt on

the Sundays of tournaments, but certainly quite something.

ANDERSON: Tiger on the prowl as a caddie, what a frightening thought for a bunch of 11-year-olds. My goodness.

All right. More on that I'm sure coming up, and "WORLD SPORT" is after the break. I'll be back top of the hour for you.

(WORLD SPORT)

[11:00:00]

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