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FBI Warns Of Armed Protests In All 50 States & D.C.; Trump Faces Prospect Of Being First President Impeached Twice; United States House Considering A Second Trump Impeachment; Trump: Speech Was "Totally Appropriate" As He Fails To Make Responsibility For Capitol Insurrection; House Committee Discusses 25th Amendment Resolution Urging Vice President Pence To Remove Trump From Office; House Rules Committee Debates Bill Demanding Trump's Removal. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired January 12, 2021 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: For the first time since the riot on Capitol Hill we've heard from U.S. President Donald Trump. When asked
what role he played in the violence? He says none and touted his anti- violence speech a day after the insurrection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It has been analyzed and people thought that what I said was totally appropriate, and if you are
looking at what other people have said at politicians of a high level about the riots during the summer, and the horrible riots in Portland and Seattle
and various other place, that was a real problem. What they said. But they have analyzed my speech, and my words and my final paragraph, and my final
sentence, and everybody to the "T" thought that it was totally appropriate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, that is Donald Trump's position. His comments came ahead of a trip to, to South Texas to celebrate his border wall, the story on
Capitol Hill over the coming days is not just what is happening on the floor there, but also how the Capitol and the members in it prepare for new
threats as the inauguration looms?
And we will get to that in a moment. Let's bring in Sunlen Serfaty who is live from Capitol Hill for us where all of this is unfolding. The
trajectory of today and the week ahead and just run us through it. Can we expect any curve balls at this point?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, I would say expect anything Becky, but right now there is certainly is a will
among House Democrats, and many Democrats of course over in the Senate to move a drive towards impeaching President Trump for the second time which
is a history-making moment there.
And so here is what we know as far as how the next 24 to 48 hours will unfold on Capitol Hill, and it is a very busy moment indeed. In just a few
moments, we will see the House Rules Committee convene. Now this is a series of political, excuse me a procedural maneuvering and machinations
that need to happen for them to set up the votes.
In the House Rules Committee will be setting the rules essentially the parameters of the debate over two things. First is the Raskin Resolution
that is the resolution that essentially calls on Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th amendment to get President Trump out of office.
And then you have the second thing the Rules Committee will be considering today and that of course is the impeachment resolution. And we know from
that resolution that is one article of impeachment for inciting the resurrection. So the Rules Committee will be meeting today convening this
is a very procedural moment where they will be setting the rules of the debate, and how long will they debate?
Once it gets out of that committee that is when it will get to the full House floor, and that's when we see tonight likely very late, at least one
vote on the resolution, the Raskin Resolution, on the 25th amendment, and will set up a vote tomorrow, Wednesday, here on Capitol Hill in the House
of Representatives that impeachment vote.
So the terms of what they decide in this House Rules Committee? How long the debate is and all of these parameters that makes sets up tomorrow? How
long of a debate it, how much we will hear from members on the floor, of course they get to voice their opposition or objection? How much of that is
what's being decided in this room right now.
ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. All right, Sunlen, thank you for that. Representative Alma Adams is one of the cosponsors of the bill being
debated in congress right now or moments from now. She was also forced to shelter during the rampage through the Capitol last week, and she joins us
now from North Carolina, and it is an absolute pleasure to have you on.
On the measure that you are supporting today lays tout evidence that Trump incited his supporters to commit violence at the Capitol. By all accounts,
Vice President Pence is unlikely to sign on to invoking the 25th instead we believe he is inclined to run down the clock to January 20th. So I just
want our viewers to get a sense of what is going on here? Is today's action just symbolic would you say?
REP. ALMA ADAMS (D-NC): Well, clearly we need to walk past it and I think everything is set up for the Raskin amendment which will be coming to the
floor, and if Vice President Pence not respond, then we will move ahead with the impeachment tomorrow.
ANDERSON: The impeachment vote. Are you confident that enough of your Republican colleagues will vote with the Democrat?
ADAMS: Well, I do believe that we have - we do know that we do have some Republicans who feel as we do, and I suspect that we will have some of them
voting with us.
[11:05:00]
ADAMS: Certainly, they may be voting with in terms of the Raskin amendment today. We are not sure, but I do think that this is an opportunity for Vice
President Pence to activate this 25th amendment. He does not do that, we are going to move ahead with impeachment, and I believe we will have some
Republicans voting with us.
ANDERSON: In his first public remarks since this insurrection, President Trump has railed against what is going on, particularly against
impeachment. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is really a continuation of the greatest witch hunt in the history of politics. It is ridiculous. It is absolutely ridiculous. This
impeachment is causing tremendous anger, and you are doing it, and it is really a terrible thing that they are doing for Nancy Pelosi and Chuck
Schumer to continue on this path I think it's causing tremendous danger to our country, and it is causing tremendous anger, and I want no violence.
Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: This is a witch hunt he says, he wants no violence. This is ridiculous. When you hear Mr. Trump using those terms, your response is
what?
ADAMS: Well, the president has already incited violence. He has continued to do that throughout his four years in office, and this is the process
that we must follow. He is the danger to our country. Five Americans have died following that violent attack on Wednesday. 50 police officers injured
and 15 hospitalized, and he is unstable.
He represents an imminent threat to the constitution and our country. He has not lived up to his oath of office, and so we are going to move forward
with the action that we need to take because we too, like the president took the oath to support and defend and to support the constitution in our
country.
And the president has certainly not supported or defended the country in terms of what he is doing. So it is not a witch hunt, he knows better than
that. And he does need to take responsibility and be accountable.
ANDERSON: Representative Alma Adams, the FBI warning of armed protests in all 50 states in the lead-up to the January 20th inauguration, and have a
listen to D.C. Mayor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MURIEL BROWSER, WASHINGTON, DC MAYOR: Our goals right now are to encourage Americans to participate virtually and to protect the District of Columbia
from a repeat of the violent insurrection experienced at the Capitol and its grounds on January 6th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Can I ask you what briefings you might have received and what measures, for example, you are taking in your own district?
ADAMS: Well, we have been thoroughly briefed as members of congress, and we are going to - it is continuing. It is ongoing. So we are being briefed
often. We have received information from our House Capitol Police who is heading this up, but also bringing in other reinforcement including the
National Guard.
So we feel pretty confident that they are really working expeditiously to make sure that we are protected. We have also reached out here in the
various districts and even in my district to our local police and we are you know, my staff pretty much is working virtually so that we are not
necessarily working in the office but we are taking precautions here locally as well.
We have heard that there will be, that there are plans to invade Capitols across these United States and in all of our states, so the same kind of
action and caution is being addressed in each of those.
ANDERSON: Last Wednesday, and indeed over the past near week now, we have had a lot of people saying "This is not America". But with the greatest of
respect, does this not reflect America today, the sort of, the divide that we have seen exposed, revealed?
[11:10:00]
ADAMS: Well, we certainly have seen a division in our country. That's unfortunate. We need to continue to address it. I think with this president
that we have had for the past four years, much of that has been exacerbated by a lot of the language and actions that he has taken.
But we have got a new president coming in Joe Biden and new Vice President Kamala Harris who have pledged to reunite our country, and I believe that
we have the individuals in place with this administration to do just that.
ANDERSON: You have authored your position on the politics and on the process very briefly, just tell me how do you feel about all this
personally?
ADAMS: Well, first of all, it is a very unsettling situation. I am very, very concerned for our country, for democracy being attacked in the way
that it has, and as a member of congress, you know, we take our oath of office seriously. And, you know, I love this country, and I have worked
hard to help this country be the best country that it can be.
We are going to continue to do that, but none of us are pleased about what has happened, and we are going to do our very best to make sure that we get
things back in order, and that not only will we have peace, but that we'll be unifying all of the members of these United States.
ANDERSON: Alma Adams, it is a pleasure to having you on. Thank you.
ADAMS: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: I want to get you to the Capitol Hill where House lawmakers are meeting in committee on a resolution urging Vice President Mike Pence to
invoke the 25th amendment and remove President Trump from office. Votes on that in the second impeachment expected over the next 24 hours. Let's
listen into what is going on now.
REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): Of his office. I wish he would resign. But he is apparently unwilling to do so. It is past time for the vice president to do
the right thing here. It is my hope that a strong bipartisan vote on this resolution will encourage the vice president to act to remove Donald Trump
from office.
Our nation, our democracy and our freedom cannot risk another day of the Trump Presidency. Now, let me turn to our ranking member for any comments
that he wishes to make.
REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, before I turn to my formal comments, I want to - I know speaking for everybody on the
committee, but certainly everybody on our side of the committee tell Mr. Raskin how much we grieve with him for his loss, and how much we admire him
for continuing to performance his duties under unimaginably difficult circumstances.
We don't always agree on the issue, but there is nobody I admire more as a person who set a better example for how to carry on under the most
extraordinarily difficult circumstances other than the gentleman from Maryland.
So Jamie, just God be with you and your family, and please know we are all praying for you we all support. We are all proud of you for being here and
continuing to perform your important constitutional functions again, under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. God be with you, my friend.
Mr. Chairman, today, as you said, it is a very sad day for all of us. This is not at all how I thought that the opening of 117th congress would begin.
I associate myself with how strong everybody feels about what happened last Wednesday. It was a horrific day and unacceptable day in American history
and a sobering day and one full of tragedy that now will cast a long shadow over the congress in the weeks and months and frankly years ahead.
Sadly, we are here today again on a grave matter. We're meeting to discuss HRS21 a resolution sponsored by our Rules Committee colleague and friend
Congressman Raskin. This resolution calls on Vice President Pence to convene the officers of the cabinet and invoke section 4 of the 25th
amendment declaring the President of the United States incapable of executing the duties of his office.
[11:15:00]
COLE: While I greatly respect my friend, I think that this resolution is misguided and inappropriate for the legislative branch to pursue. Under the
25th amendment to the constitution responsibility for initiating the causes for making a - as to whether or not the president is unable to pursue
his/her duties lies solely with the vice president.
There is no role for the congress absent dispute between the president and the vice president, and cabinet over his/her ability to fulfill those
duties. And though congress may designate another body besides this or the cabinet to exercise its power today it has not done so nor has it achieved
by this resolution.
With today's resolution the majority is asking the House to assume a power it does not have. The House has no role in initiating section 4 of the 25th
amendment not even through a non-binding resolution, and we should not pretend otherwise. Instead that power lies with the vice president and the
cabinet.
I have to say that during last Wednesday's events, Vice President Pence showed sound judgment, his performance was above reproach indeed he
fulfilled his oath of office and acted in a manner befitting his constitutional role as vice president.
We should call this resolution what it is, a transparent attempt to pressure the vice president into performing a duty he does not believe is
necessary at this time. The vice president has not done what the majority wants him to do, and so they are pushing him towards this resolution,
forward this resolution in an attempt to make him execute the House's will.
I have strong faith in Vice President Pence and believe he will consider this his constitutional duty in the same manner that he carries out all
other constitutional duties in a forthright manner that fulfills his oath of the office.
Should he believe that the 25th amendment needs to be invoked? I have faith that Vice President Pence both as a leader and as a former House colleague
would exercise good judgment with respect to performing that duty.
Again, Vice President Pence's record of sound judgment at times of crisis should speak for all of his on this issue. Last Wednesday's events were
deeply troubling for the nation Mr. Chairman, as no one joining this meeting today who condones the violent and destructive actions of the mob
that storm the Capitol last week sorts to harm innocent lives and disrupt democracy at work.
Indeed it never should have happened and I cannot condemn the lawlessness perpetrators of the crime strongly enough, and I know that we are all
committed to ensuring justice is served to the fullest extent of the law. However I believe the resolution before the committee today, will not
achieve the desired result. With that Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
MCGOVERN: The gentleman yields back and I appreciate his remarks. I want to recognize our first panel, but first, I also want to join with Mr. Cole and
I think I speak for everybody on this committee when I say to my good colleague, Mr. Raskin, how he and his wife Sarah have been in our prayer
over these last several days.
You have been a great inspiration to all of us by continuing to show up to do this important work but also your son Tommy has been an inspiration, and
his legacy is continuing to be incredible with all of the acts of kindness that the people are doing in his honor and all of the great causes that the
people are supporting. So I appreciate that very much.
But I want to now recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, as well as the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Jordan to be our first panel and I
yield to Mr. Raskin.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Mr. Chairman, thank you for your extremely thoughtful and loving remarks. Thanks to you and every member of this
committee, everyone has reached out to me and to Sarah and to our family in this moment of terrible heartbreak and grief for us.
We really are, and our family here on the Rules Committee, Mr. Cole, I am moved beyond words by your very tender thoughts, and I treasure your
friendship and I always have, and in recognition of that, I'm not even going to respond to your comments for a few minutes.
I'm going to talk about some other stuff, and then I'm going to try to refute your always dangerously logical and precise arguments, but I think
that I have some recitations of the things that you are saying.
And I do hope that our whole committee on both sides will think of this resolution as a way to bring not just the committee, but the whole House of
Representatives together in making clear that what took place is absolutely intolerable and unacceptable.
[11:20:00]
RASKIN: And it is critical for us now to make clear that this was an absolute dereliction of presidential duty and it is very clear that the
president did not discharge the proper duties of office.
I suppose when we come to discuss impeachment, there might be some differences in assignment of the degree of fault, blame and responsibility
that will be laid at the foot of the president. But I think this - for the purposes of this resolution, we can all agree that the conduct of the
executive branch fell dramatically below the constitutional standards set forth for the president.
Now, there are three ways to protect the nation against a president whose conduct poses a clear and present danger to the people. The first of course
is to defeat him in an election, and the American people just did that in November of 2020 by catapulting Joe Biden to greater than 7 million vote
victory over President Trump in delivering him the 306 to 232 Electoral College victory of margin that President Trump had described as a landslide
when he won by exact same numbers in 2016.
So this the people have done. This the people who already - indeed President Trump's persistent and outright refusal to accept these election
results in this outcome, and his determination to discredit nullify and overturn the election results that has led us to this current national
crisis.
The second way to remove the president who has proven himself a danger to the republic and to people is to impeach him in the House for having
committed high crimes and misdemeanors within the meaning of the constitution and then trying him in the Senate.
This too in a familiar true mechanism that the committee knows well, and you will remember the marathon 10-hour session that our former colleague
Doug Collins and I had back in December of 2019 when we voted to bring to the floor articles of impeachment relating to the president's efforts to
pressure a foreign government to get involved in the 2020 presidential campaign here in the United States into smear Vice President Joe Biden.
Now, the final mechanism for removing a president who--
MCGOVERN: Jamie, you need to un-mute.
RASKIN: The final mechanism for removing a president who is feeling to meet the most basic duties of his office and indeed actually harming the
republic with his conduct is the 25th amendment. Now, the whole purpose of the 25th amendment which was adopted in 1967 is to defend the stability of
the republic and to guarantee the safe continuity of governmental operations at the very highest levels.
It was adopted to several years after the assassination of John F. Kennedy and in fact, his brother Robert F. Kennedy was one of the key legislative
factors and pushing it along with Senator - but it was passed on an overwhelming bipartisan basis at the dawn of the nuclear age because
questions of physical and mental fitness were prominent in the minds of Americans at that point.
And as they often said, we have 535 members of congress and if something goes wrong or one of them or two of them or a dozen of them, the congress
will keep functioning, but we only have one President of the United States and if that president is unable to successfully discharge the duties and
the power of office, that becomes a crisis for the entire republic.
Contrary to popular belief, the 25th amendment has been activated and deployed numerous times since it was adopted back in 67. Section one which
establishes that the vice president becomes president in the event of the presidential vacancy was used when President Nixon resigned and Gerald Ford
became president and before that point, it was unclear whether the vice president was actually becoming president or just exercising the powers of
the president, and it was 25th amendment which settled that question in section one.
[11:25:00]
RASKIN: Section two established the ways to fill a vacant vice presidency and that took place when for example Spiro Agnew resigned as vice president
and then President Nixon followed the provisions of section 2 nominated Gerald Ford and he was ratified by majority vote in both Houses of
congress.
Now section three I like to think off is the section that deals with the famous presidential colon, because it has been used when Ronald Reagan
underwent colorectal surgery and he voluntarily and temporarily transferred the powers of his office to George Herbert Walker Bush, and then after that
incapacity ended he by letter resumed the powers of the office.
President George W. Bush, himself, invoked section 3 in transferring the powers of his office to then Vice President Dick Cheney when President Bush
underwent a colonoscopy, and it has been used several times in the context of colonoscopy and other surgeries.
But today, we're looking at section 4 which we are asking the vice president to invoke by activating and mobilizing the cabinet to declare
what is patently obvious to a horrify and anxious nation. The president is not even minimally discharging the basic duties of his office.
Now my friend Mr. Cole says that in drafting and adopting such a resolution would be operating outside of the proper legislative sphere under the 25th
amendment, on the contrary, if you go back to look at the legislative history of the 25th amendment, it was deeply intended by Senator Bay (ph)
and Senator Kennedy and all of the members who are involved in it to promote collaboration among the different branches to guarantee the
stability of government in continuity in office.
Now Mr. Cole, of course he is that it is up to the vice president, and we are not trying to usurp his authority in any way. We're trying to tell him
that the time of the 25th amendment emergency has arrived and it has come to our doorstep, and it has invaded our chamber.
We just saw the unprecedented event of hundreds or even thousands of members of a mob entering the congress of the United States without going
through metal detectors or any kind of security screening and occupying the floors of the Senate and the House, and occupying offices of our leaders
chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and yelling "Where's Nancy"?
Many of them were brandishing weapons, guns, knives, and some of them had zip ties to handcuff people's hands. We were delayed in the counting of the
Electoral College vote by more than six hours. Member, staff, family, and citizens across the country were terrorized and terrified and horrified by
what took place.
No amount of euphemism or displacement on anyone's part across the country will ever let us forget what took place on that day. Now, the President of
United States on January 6th, and indeed in the several months leading up to it violated the oath of his office by doing everything with his power to
thwart and defeat the proper counting of the Electoral College vote on January 6th.
He did everything in his power to overturn the authentic popular votes of the election in critical swing states, such as take for example Georgia
which Joe Biden won by 11,791 votes, and the number I remember, because the president called Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and said all I need
you do is find me 11,780 votes. One vote more and then I'll be able to win.
So what took place with us on January 6th dear colleagues was the culmination of a process of an attack on the presidential election and the
assemblage and then the counting of the Electoral College votes, and then of course President Trump called Secretary of State Raffensperger an enemy
of the people for refusing to overturn the election results even after a statewide recount, reconfirmed the initial count.
And as everyone knows President Trump called Raffensperger on the phone saying that he was committing a criminal offense, that this was very risky
for him, and I want to do is I just want you to find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have because we won the state. So I'm not going to go in
excruciating detail at this point about everything that took place.
[11:30:00]
RASKIN: But I don't think that there is a reasonable person in the country with his or her eyes open who don't understand that the president was hell
bent on trying to challenge, undermine and overturn the results of the election in all of the events leading up to January 6th and on January 6th,
and that is a profound dereliction of the president's duties under the constitution.
Now, what are those duties? What are the duties that are referenced by the 25th amendment that the president must live up to, and if the president is
not successfully discharging them, the power can be transferred by the vice president in a majority of the cabinet or as Mr. Cole tells us that the
vice president in a majority of the body set up by congress which alas we have not done, although I have introduced legislation to that effect over
the last several years.
Well, the president swears an oath to uphold and defend the constitution, and the constitution includes the peaceful transfer of power, the counting
of Electoral College votes. The president has the duty to defend the American people to defend the congress.
The president has the power to defend the country against armed insurrection, mob rule, invasion of public offices and we will see as you
look through the very specific details of what happened the president miserably failed in living up to all of those duties, and that is the very
least that we can say.
When the president was begged at various points by both Republican leaders and Democratic leaders to send more help and to call upon the mob to stand
down, he was extremely reluctant to do so, and he continued to send supportive tweets for periods in which we were under duress on Capitol
Hill.
He urged everybody during the day to fight like hell. He sent out finally a tweet, I think and this is the one that people are using to try to absolve
the president amazingly. This was probably his best or the most exculpatory tweet he sent out a tweet saying these are the things and events that
happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously and viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly and
unfairly treated for so long go home with love and in peace, and remember this day forever.
And of course, much of the damage had already taken place. As everyone knows, five people were lost in the mob violence that was unleashed against
the congress of the United States, including a Capitol Hill police officer, and as the scale of the violence and the damage became clear, the president
quickly deleted that tweet and then tweeted, I suppose this was his most forceful one.
Go home, we love you, you are very special and now that was at the end of the day, when basically most of the devastating damage had already been
wrought on the people of the congress.
My friends, when we talk about the 25th amendment, we don't have to find that the president committed a high crime and misdemeanor in inciting this
mob insurrection. And I think that there is overwhelming proof that he did, but we don't have to prove that for the 25th amendment, but all we have to
ask is whether the president lived up to the most basic and minimal expectations for his duties of office?
Can you imagine any other President of the United States doing what this president did, and can you imagine President Bush doing that? Can you
imagine President Obama doing that? Can you imagine President Lincoln doing that? Franklin Roosevelt the Democrat or Teddy Roosevelt the Republican can
you imagine any other president in our history encouraging and fomenting mob violence against the congress of the United States against our people?
That's the question.
If you are with me, and you can't imagine any other president doing that and you think that he failed the basic duties of office, then I think the
vice president has the duty to act. I'm with Mr. Cole in saluting the vice president for doing his duty on January 6th.
[11:35:00]
RASKIN: He came under enormous, phenomenal and unprecedented pressure by the President of the United States to step out of his role as the person
simply presiding over the counting of electoral votes and to try to nullify and overturn the election? That is just deepens the complicity of the
president with this horrific assault on the counting of the Electoral College.
But the vice president stood up at that moment, and we are asking the vice president to stand up again for all of those people who voted, I think,
foolishly with the president's wishes to deny the Electoral College votes that were cast by our states, by our state officials despite the fact that
the president brought 62 different cases in federal and state court and lost 61 of them soundly and decisively and in many cases of humiliatingly
as the judges castigated the president for bringing such nonsense before the courts.
But for those who decided to go along with that and help to drive that wound into country, and who are now calling for bringing the country
together, and those people who are now calling for reconciliation, this is the road to reconciliation. It is the vice president himself who is the key
actor and it is the president's own cabinet who make up the key actors, the principle officers of each departments of government.
They can help to lead us out of the nightmare that we have been plunged into by this sequence of events. They can transfer peacefully the powers of
the president to the Vice President Mike Pence for the remainder of this term so that we can have a peaceful transition of power.
My friends, on the extreme right wing web sites that help to build the president's rally to the save America rally, they are calling for the mobs
to come back to Washington and to continue the assault on the Republic of the United States. They are calling for continued war, and they are calling
a war against our government.
They want to see this mob insurrection spread. One of the ones I read said that they are going to come back with so many people that no army will be
able to stop them. This is not just a crisis and an emergency, it is a continuing crisis and emergency, and it is not over yet.
Can we say that we feel safe being in the hands of this president with the horror and the threat returning to the nation's Capitol? Well, we are
asking Vice President Pence with this resolution in the cabinet to act with the powers that were wisely put into place by the congress back in 1967,
and they should meet.
They should consider all of the circumstances and they should move to restore order to the United States of America. With that, I yield back to
you, Mr. Chairman.
MCGOVERN: Thank you very much, and before I yield to Mr. Jordan, let me just should say without objection, any written materials that you submit to
Rules documents at mail.host.gov before the conclusion of this hearing will be entered into the record. At this point I'd like to yield to the
gentleman from Ohio Mr. Jordan.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Thank you Mr. Chairman. I too want to associate myself with remarks myself with remarks of the Chairman and the Ranking
Member regarding our colleague from Maryland and what his family is dealing with.
Mr. Chairman, what happened at the Capitol on January 6th was as wrong as wrong can be. It is not what America is about. Political violence of any
kind is wrong. We condemned this violence, and we commend the men and women of the Capitol Police for their bravely and we mourn those who have lost
their lives.
All political violence should be condemned the all of the time. This should not be a partisan issue. Republicans have been consistent, and we condemned
the violence last summer, and we condemned the violence last week. Congress needs to stop this, this effort to remove the president from office just
one week before he is set to leave.
Continued calls to impeach the president or remove him from office using the 25th amendment I don't think are healthy for the nation. Rushing this
resolution to the floor will do nothing to unify or heal the country. Under the plan Speaker Pelosi laid out on Sunday the Democrats plan to impeach
the president a second time just days before, as I said he is set to leave.
These actions will only again going to continue the divide the nation. Turning to the 25th amendment into a political weapon by demanding that the
vice president invoke it to remove the president from office I think is just wrong. Let's be clear.
Democrats have wanted to remove President Trump from office since he won the election in 2016. They failed with the Russian investigation, they
failed with the Mueller investigation and they fail with their first impeachment investigation. So here we are again considering another
divisive effort to go after President Trump.
[11:40:00]
JORDAN: We should use this time to bring the nation together - partisan divisions, we should use this time to help the small business owners across
the country who are struggling because of government's actions that closed their businesses and close their stores. We should use this time to honor
the men and women of law enforcement here at the Capitol and across the country who sacrifice themselves to keep our families safe.
But it looks like we're not going to go down that path. We are here again to consider a Democrat resolution to attack the president. Just eight days
before he is said he will leave office, just eight days before we will have a peaceful transition of power as we have had in this country every four or
eight years since our nation's finding. I urge my colleagues to oppose this resolution and will yield back.
MCGOVERN: Thank you very much. Let me just begin, if I could. You know, Mr. Jordan, this is not a both sides issue. Our Capitol was attacked. Five
people are dead. Countless people are wounded. We had a group of domestic terrorists, homegrown fascists who came to the Capitol building to
desecrate this symbol of democracy and freedom and to do harm to people.
And with all due respect, I am glad that all it took for you to call for unity and healing was for our freedom and our democracy to be attacked. But
for the last several months, the gentleman from Ohio and others have given oxygen to the president's conspiracy theories. And we all want healing, but
in order to get to healing, we need truth and we need accountability.
I mean, people came to the Capitol building to try to launch a coup to stop us from upholding our constitutional responsibilities. I was on the floor,
House floor I know you were and others always were the last people to walk off of the House floor and when I went to the speaker's lobby, I saw this
mob, trying to break glass doors to get access to floor, and God knows what else.
You know, they defied the Capitol Police who were bravely trying to protect us, and I saw in their eyes, you know, hate and evil, and I am just
grateful that more, that more people weren't harmed in this terrible attack, but they came here to destroy things, to desecrate things. And they
did so, because the President of the United States told them to go do it.
At his urging, they came to the Capitol, and some of them, and I am listening to some of the commentary, thought he was here. But he incited
that mob, and unfortunately some of our colleagues joined in that effort to gin things up. And our job as elected officials is to tell the truth.
So my question for you is will you admit that Joe Biden won fair and square and the election was not rigged or stolen?
JORDAN: Can you hear me, Mr. Chairman?
MCGOVERN: I can.
JORDAN: Mr. Chairman what I did over the last several months is to follow the process that the constitution prescribes. It wasn't me who said it, but
it is Justice Ginsberg.
MCGOVERN: That is not the question I asked.
JORDAN: No, I will get to your question but - comments, too.
MCGOVERN: I don't need a filibuster. We just want to get--
JORDAN: I am not going to filibuster Mr. Chairman. The late Justice Ginsberg said January 6th is the date of alternate significance that is how
congress set this up in the statute that they passed dealing with 12th amendment so we followed that process and at 4:00 am on Thursday, January
7th when we concluded our business on the floor, Joe Biden became, Vice President Biden became President-Elect Biden.
That's how the process plays out. Those of us who spoke against the unconstitutional ways several states conducted their election were
following the process and we did nothing different than Democrats have done every time a Republican has been elected this century.
[11:45:00]
JORDAN: In fact our colleague who was sponsoring this resolution objected to on January 6th, 2017, and we have followed the process--
MCGOVERN: So is that a yes?
JORDAN: Of course, it is a yes. I've said this on television on Sunday.
MCGOVERN: But I am asking about the process I'm asking you to make a statement that the election was not stolen that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris
won fair and square that's the question.
JORDAN: I - not the question you asked was - Joe Biden - and I just said yes.
MCGOVERN: Let me just repeat the question, so Joe Biden won fair and square?
JORDAN: He won the election because of the way that the process works is the last chance to object is January 6th. And the objection didn't prevail.
MCGOVERN: If we want to talk about healing, we have to talk about truth. And if we want to talk about healing, we also need to deal with the issue
of accountability, and what this president incited last Wednesday is unforgivable and unconscionable.
I mean, I am used to the excesses of this president, you know, over the top statements and the pandering to some of the most intolerant groups in this
country. But I never thought, I never thought that I would see what he said at that rally, and so, I mean to the deal is, my question was very simple
and I'm not asking you to make a statement that the election was not stolen that Joe Biden won fair and square.
You know one of the ways to promote healing is for you to say yes, and put that on your Twitter account, so that all of these people who bought into a
lie will start to hearing from some of the people that were pushing this, you know, the answer is that the American people--
JORDAN: Mr. Chairman--
MCGOVERN: Yes.
JORDAN: --Joe Biden is going to be sworn in as president, he is President- Elect Joe Biden--
MCGOVERN: That is not the question I asked.
JORDAN: Our concern and why we raised objections was in several states the rules were changed and unconstitutional fashion when the state legislature
did not change election law. You had Secretary of States and you had Governors, you had Supreme Court and in some cases you had county clerks
change the election law and this is what we are pointing out. That is all we were pointing out, and just like our colleague Mr. Raskin pointed out
concerns he had on January 2016--
MCGOVERN: Well, I think that I - well, we - I think you refuse to answer that question, and I think that is one of the--
JORDAN: I did not refuse. He is going to be the president and I have said that on television, he is going to be the president. I know that. The whole
country knows that.
MCGOVERN: That is not the question I asked. I asked you to, to lay bear the fact that this lie out there that somehow that Joe Biden did not win the
election fair and square. He did. And the president to this day continues to perpetrate that. And so does--
JORDAN: Are you saying that there were no problems with - there were no concerns with this election? Are you saying Mr. Chairman? Of course, I
understand that Joe Biden won, but you are saying that there were no concerns with this election?
MCGOVERN: I will yield to the gentleman from Maryland if he has any.
RASKIN: Mr. Chairman, I just want to make one point about this somewhat abstruse article two section one argument that was made the day all of us
almost lost our lives as Lindsey Graham put it. I was moved by something that Lindsey Graham said, he said you know these people came in to the
buildings without the metal detectors. They could have been armed they could have had a bomb and all of us could have died.
So I think we do have to try to step up our discussion from the normal level of just partisan rhetorical combat and point scoring. The point our
colleague from Ohio makes about article 2, section 1 was raised by Trump's campaign team in numerous courts across the country where it faced the same
massive decisive repudiation by Trump's own appointees by Republican judges by Democratic judges, it is ridiculous, and empty.
It is an empty void there is basically nothing to respond to there. And the state legislatures that they are nominally advocating for are not taking
the position, those legislatures are not going to the court to try to say our own Supreme Court violated our prerogatives our own Governor violated
our prerogatives nobody buys that.
So Mr. Jordan is correct, they had an argument, it is a ridiculous and silly argument, and this is a point of common sense. I want America here to
follow the great Tom Payne, use your common sense.
[11:50:00]
RASKIN: That argument was made and it helped to delay the proceedings, and then this mob comes in, and there's at least one call from the president
during the mayhem and the chaos to a Senator to telling him to keep the objections going, and to prolong the process.
So I just disagree profoundly with the substance of that argument, every court in the land looked at it has rejected it. The state legislatures
don't buy it, it is fine that Mr. Jordan wants to go back to it, but I think all this should do some soul searching about the five dead Americans.
The Capitol police officer who is dead and dozens wounded, lots of our Capitol Hill cops in the hospital and the country on edge and an inflamed
right wing which thinks that we are on the verge of a civil war.
Now come on, guys, can we get it together to act as a Rules Committee together as a congress to tell the vice president simply to acknowledge
what is obvious which is this president is not up to the job for the next 8 days and a lot of danger still faces us. That is my perspective.
MCGOVERN: Well, I don't want to belabor this point, but I will be honestly I am stunned that after all that has happened that we can't get a
definitive answer that this election was not stolen.
JORDAN: Mr. Chairman, I said that Joe Biden won the election, but there were problems with how it was done, I think in an unconstitutional fashion
in the face we object it too. I would also point out - and do you disagree with what Justice Ginsberg said--
MCGOVERN: People came here, Mr. Jordan, because they believed the lie that the president and many people in this chamber perpetrated that this
election was not run in a fair and square fashion. And to the president of this day continues to perpetrate the lie that somehow he won this election
by a landslide.
And so I think you know we want to talk about healing, I mean, people have to - the people came here thought that the president was telling the truth,
thought many of you who were backing him up were telling the truth. And it ended up in this terrible ordeal which five people lost their life.
JORDAN: Mr. Chairman, did you object in 2017 on January 6th?
MCGOVERN: I did not say that the election was stolen. I said in fact, I acknowledged that he was the president the day after the election. Hillary
Clinton conceded the day after the election.
JORDAN: I think that you said that the election was--
MCGOVERN: And I said that--
(CROSSTALK)
MCGOVERN: Mr. Jordan, excuse me. When I raised objections to was the fact that our entire intelligence agency raised concerns about the Russian
interference in our elections which apparently did not matter to some of you, but I did not try to overturn the election, and it went to--
JORDAN: And you are saying that--
MCGOVERN: --the station was eight minutes, all right. So anyway, I think that you have answered my question, and I would now--
JORDAN: No, we have a double standard, and you and Mr. Raskin are allowed to object in 2017 and no Republicans are allowed to object in 2020.
MCGOVERN: Yes, I yield to the gentleman.
RASKIN: OK. There is a terrible false moral equivalency going on here. Throughout American history, a lot of members have tried to point out
technical or procedural problems in the Electoral College. The one that I pointed out was that there were elected officials who were also electors in
violation of the state constitution.
I think it was in Florida and I think I simply raised that point for maybe 15 or 20 seconds, but nowhere did I ever incite mob insurrection against
the government of the United States. There were millions of people to take up the chairman's points who were convinced that Vladimir Putin with his
cyber sabotage against the DNC and Hillary Clinton.
So one had profoundly influenced the outcome of the 2016 election but what did the Democrats do? They put on pink winter hats and marched peacefully
with million people joined planned parenthood worked with their churches to try to reform America, nobody was out there agitating for a violent armed
insurrection against the government of the United States. I yield back.
MCGOVERN: Yes, I thank the gentleman, and I will just conclude by saying I acknowledged that Donald Trump was the president-elect the day after the
election. I did not like it, but I acknowledged it. The trouble here is that my friends have been spending the last few months saying that the
election was stolen.
[11:55:00]
MCGOVERN: In fact the gentleman from Ohio even went to a rally called "Stop the steal" so - and we have a president now that continues to put out this
big lie that he won the election by a landslide. So there is a big difference here.
And with that, I yield to the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole for any questioning or comments that he may have.
COLE: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I just want to go back to what I see is the central issue, which is the exercise of the 25th amendment. When
I asked you, Mr. Jordan, just a simple question, as I recall you served with Vice President Pence when he was in the House. Certainly know him as
vice president. Do you think that he is capable of exercising the 25th amendment? Do you think that he would do so if he felt that was the
appropriate action for him to take?
JORDAN: Yes, and he has actually answered the question. I appreciate the ranking member's question, and the vice president answered the question. As
a defender of the constitution, he said that he is not going to invoke the 25th amendment section 4. He said that.
My understanding is that the vice president and the president were together yesterday talking about this issue and others as well. So Vice President
Pence has been clear, and as you know, we have both had the opportunity to serve with him. He was a mentor to me, and I think that he came about the
same time that I came after the vice president was here and he is very clear where he stands on this issue that the other side is bringing
forward.
COLE: So you trust him to make the judgment?
JORDAN: Mike Pence - yes, Mike Pence is a good guy and I trust him. I think that the country trusts him and I think the president trusts him.
COLE: That is the only question that I have, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
MCGOVERN: Thank you very much. I go to the gentlewoman from California, Ms. Torres.
REP. NORMA TORRES (D-CA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Throughout our history, the Rules Committee has met to discuss many, many historic measures and
today is no exception. We are making history once again. And to discuss events that will forever stain this great institution in our democracy.
I speak today in support of the Raskin Resolution, a call for Vice President Pence to live up to the oath he swore upon taking office. An oath
that says he will protect the constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic.
And as we meet with wounded hearts in our wounded Capitol building, there is no debate that these hollow halls were violated last week, and there is
no debate that the mob that breached these walls were energized by misinformation, bald-faced lies and claims that are in direct odds with our
constitution, and there is no debate as to who misled those people.
Who sent them here to ravage our Capitol? Who it was who undermined our democracy? President Trump that is who it was, he called for insurrection
on social media, on a stage with television cameras capturing his every word.
I'm saddened that my colleagues will dare to stand on that stage and do the same. Six Americans are now dead, two of them are Capitol police officers
and more than 50 offers were injured, 15 hospitalized. Trump incited this attack, and there should be no question as to what Vice President Pence
needs to do right now?
Like many of you, some of you, I was caught up in that attack last week. I was one of 12 trapped in the House gallery. I heard the shot being fired. I
saw the smoke from the tear gas having been deployed and I watched one officer with no protective equipment face a raging mob just outside the
chamber.
END
