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U.S. Senate Prepares for Trump Impeachment Trial; Investigators Pursuing Signs U.S. Capitol Riot Was Planned; Concern Grows over Fallout on Biden Diplomacy; WHO Team Begins Two-Week Quarantine in China; Trump First U.S. President in History to Be Impeached Twice; Political Upheaval, Pandemic Crisis in U.S. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 14, 2021 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The ayes are 232, the nays are 197. Resolution is adopted. Without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid upon the
table.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Donald Trump becomes the first sitting U.S. president to be impeached twice. And new evidence suggests the
siege at the U.S. Capitol that led to the impeachment was planned.
And a WHO team investigating the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic is now in China. More details on that and more coming up.
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ANDERSON: It's 10:00 am in D.C. and it's 7 in the evening here in Abu Dhabi. I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD.
Six days before the inauguration of a new president, there should be talk about initiatives and transitions and hope. In America right now, all that
is overshadowed by violence, fear and chaos.
The final act of Donald Trump inciting the insurrection at the Capitol last week, an act that got him impeached for the second time.
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PELOSI: The ayes are 232. The nays are 197. The resolution is adopted. Without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table.
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ANDERSON: After the vote, Mr. Trump is uncharacteristically mum. No events on his schedule and with no social media, just a single video that did not
mention the impeachment. He did, however, denounce the violence at the Capitol last week.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Like all of you, I was shocked and deeply saddened by the calamity at the Capitol last week. I
want to thank the hundreds of millions of incredible American citizens who have responded to this moment with calm, moderation and grace. We will get
through this challenge just like we always do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, now that the House has impeached Mr. Trump, the Senate is set to try him and it's likely after he has already left office. Senate
majority leader Mitch McConnell says he hasn't ruled out voting to convict Donald Trump. But no word on how many of his fellow Republicans might
follow suit.
First up, though, Washington has a president to inaugurate safely.
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TRUMP: We are bringing in thousands of National Guard members to secure the city and ensure that a transition can occur safely and without
incident.
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ANDERSON: After last week's violence, D.C. is in a war stance, as is every U.S. state capital. Federal officials tell CNN online chatter about attacks
next Wednesday is, quote, "off the charts."
Some 20,000 troops are being deployed for the swearing-in of Joe Biden. That is three times larger than the American presence in Iraq, Afghanistan
and Syria combined.
Well, newly obtained video from the D.C. riot illustrates why such extreme precautions are necessary. It shows a rioter casually throwing a fire
extinguisher at a police officer in the middle of the melee.
Investigators are looking at the evidence that this was more than just a group of amped-up Trump fans, turning their anger on lawmakers but rather,
a planned attack. One Congress woman says a couple of her fellow lawmakers may have even been complicit.
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REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Those members of Congress who had groups coming through the Capitol that I saw on January 5th, a reconnaissance for
the next day.
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ANDERSON: Sunlen Serfaty is connecting us to what is fortress Washington today.
Images of the National Guard at the U.S. Capitol, the likes of which, quite frankly, none of us ever imagined, Sunlen, that we would see.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Those visuals of the National Guard troops up here again today, sleeping
overnight on the floor in many of the U.S. Capitol hallways, was a visual representation of the moment that we are in here in the United States and
in the hallowed halls of the nation's Capitol.
As the full extent of the plot on the Capitol unfolds, as we learn more, lawmakers are saying that's only growing their anger.
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SERFATY: And that's pushing forward that anger in the impeachment process. Now they are still essentially gearing up for the next step of this
impeachment process. And that's the Senate impeachment trial of President Trump.
That came after that historic day that we saw up here yesterday, the House making Trump the first American president to be impeached twice.
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SERFATY (voice-over): Inside the U.S. Capitol, now protected by armed National Guard troops --
PELOSI: The ayes are 232, the nays are 197.
SERFATY (voice-over): -- the House voting to impeach President Trump for the second time, exactly one week after a pro-Trump mob stormed the
building in a deadly riot.
PELOSI: He must go. He is a clear and present danger to the nation that we all love.
SERFATY (voice-over): House Democrats explaining why they believe Trump should be charged with incitement of insurrection.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Donald Trump is a living, breathing, impeachable offense.
REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX), MEMBER, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what
is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every one of us in this room right now could have died.
SERFATY (voice-over): And in a rare bipartisan move, 10 House Republicans joining them.
REP. JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER (R-WA): My vote to impeach our sitting president is not a fear-based decision; I am not choosing a side, I'm
choosing truth.
REP. DAN NEWHOUSE (R-WA): Last week there was a domestic threat at the door of the Capitol and he did nothing to stop it. That is why, with a
heavy heart and clear resolve, I will vote yes on these articles of impeachment.
SERFATY (voice-over): House minority leader Kevin McCarthy voting against impeachment but saying this about the president's role in the riots.
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), MINORITY LEADER: The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should
have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.
SERFATY (voice-over): Trump's fate is now in the hands of the Senate. And majority leader Mitch McConnell made clear his trial will not start until
after President-Elect Joe Biden begins his term.
McConnell, who has said he thinks impeachment will separate Trump from the GOP, has told Republican colleagues he's undecided on conviction.
The president is still taking no responsibility for the attacks on the U.S. Capitol and did not mention impeachment in a video statement posted by the
White House. But Capitol Hill Democrats think Trump should be held accountable.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT), MEMBER, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Guilty intent and his actions can be presented very quickly to the United States
Senate. I hope Republicans will join in convicting him.
SERFATY (voice-over): Biden stressing it's crucial for Congress to multitask in the weeks ahead, writing in a statement, quote, "I hope that
the Senate leadership will find a way to deal with their constitutional responsibilities on impeachment while also working on the other urgent
business of this nation.
REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): We can both do the trial as well as get the work of the nation done simultaneously.
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SERFATY: And the focus now shifts towards the Senate impeachment trial and, of course, the big question here is where Senate majority leader Mitch
McConnell, where does he stand and if he will ultimately support conviction.
At this time, we do not know what he's going to do but a source telling CNN, McConnell is keenly aware of this moment in history and what it means
for the Republican Party -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Sunlen Serfaty is on Capitol Hill.
As we've been discussing, this was the scene inside the Capitol building Wednesday as the House voted on impeachment.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): Look at these images. You can see members of the National Guard in full combat gear lining the halls of Congress, some
sleeping with their guns at their sides. This is the first time troops have been garrisoned inside the Capitol since the Civil War, 20,000 soldiers
being deployed across the city ahead of inauguration next week.
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ANDERSON: As we've said, just to press the point home, three times larger than America's presence in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria combined. A federal
official tells CNN they're investigating signs the Capitol attack was planned well in advance.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): And look at this new video obtained by CNN, showing a rioter throwing a fire extinguisher at police. Intelligence officials now
warning domestic extremists are likely more motivated to carry out attacks after the Capitol riots, which they see as a success.
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ANDERSON: CNN's Jessica Schneider is on the story for us. She is live for you in Washington.
And I want our viewers just to have a look at this clip. Stand by.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, guys, I've been in the other room, listen to me. In the other room on the other side of this door, right here where these
feet are standing, there is a glass that, if somebody -- and if it's broken. You can drop down into a room underneath it.
There's also two doors --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open this, like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- in the other room, one in the rear and one to the right when you go in.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So people should probably coordinate together if you're going to take this building. (INAUDIBLE). We got another window to
break to make in and out easy. And this window here (INAUDIBLE) needs to be broken.
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ANDERSON: I don't know where to go with this.
So that woman giving instructions on where to go to cause the most damage - - Jessica.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky, shockingly specific here. These details that these rioters knew, it's really giving a
new focus to law enforcement.
We've learned that they are now looking at the planning of all of this and looking at the potential, that this wasn't just a spontaneous protest,
where they happened to breach the Capitol; this may have all been planned.
So now they are looking at the tactics, the weapons; law enforcement investigators are also looking into the fact that some of these rioters
left the gathering just a little ways away from the Capitol with the president early, potentially, to gather some of those materials, that they
then used to attack and breach the Capitol.
So that is the focus right now. In fact, we're hearing that prosecutors are now treating this like a counterterrorism investigation. They are using
prosecutors who are steeped in national security.
They're also looking at the financial angle of this. One prosecutor telling us, we are following the money to see exactly how coordinated all of this
was.
Now this comes at the same time that we're seeing all of this tight security around the Capitol, blocks and blocks shut down so this doesn't
happen again, thousands of National Guard troops. The Capitol, at this point, is really unreachable.
But that's not stopping law enforcement. They are sending out a flurry of bulletins and warnings. And the takeaway from all of this is that, after
last week's attack, domestic extremists are feeling emboldened. That's heightened the likelihood now for attacks on Joe Biden's inauguration
that's happening on Wednesday.
And this law enforcement bulletin is pointing out that extremists are infiltrating what could be peaceful protests. And they're doing it because
of conspiracy theories that are propelling them into action.
Of course, Becky, these are also conspiracy theories that we often hear from the president. So a lot of warnings and concern this morning from law
enforcement agencies like FBI, Homeland Security and Secret Service.
And at the same time, the FBI director, he briefed law enforcement officials across the country about the armed protests we could see here in
Washington and, maybe most alarming, all 50 state capitals. So this is a wide-reaching problem and the warnings are wide-reaching as well -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Does seem absolutely remarkable. Thank you for your reporting, Jessica.
But outside the U.S., growing concern the impeachment will weigh down the Biden administration, pushing the global agenda on the back -- to the back
burner. Biden will already have his hands full, of course, when he takes over next Wednesday, dealing with deep political divisions in the country,
plus the pandemic and its economic fallout; now impeachment on top of all of that.
Nic Robertson has been keeping an eye on the international reaction. He joins us now from London.
You know and you have been very clear in your reporting of just how the rest of the world has reacted to the scenes they saw last Wednesday.
Absolutely remarkable.
How are people now reacting to the news on impeachment and, indeed, on what will be an extremely busy time for Joe Biden?
Where will that foreign policy file sit in his list of priorities, do you believe?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Look, it's inevitably going to slip to a degree. It has to because there's only a finite amount
of time in the day.
And even as president and, even able to delegate and delegate to, you know, a relatively strong cabinet that he intends to pick, he still has to go
through the process of confirmations, dealing with COVID-19, all the things we know he's got on his plate, the political divisions within the country.
He wants to heal the country, bring it together and now faced with the impeachment of President Trump, it's going to be a distraction. And we're
not hearing -- a week ago, we were hearing a lot of comments from world leaders about the disastrous events, the insurrection on Capitol Hill.
I think they are being quieter at the moment, principally because that's how global leaders handle the internal affairs of other countries. They try
not to get involved.
And clearly last week, what we saw was a very big shot across President Trump's bow that everyone was concerned about what was happening in the
U.S. This is more about, OK, let's wait and see how this transition is falling into President Biden's hands right now.
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ROBERTSON: Tony Blair, the former British prime minister, was speaking to a D.C. think tank a few days ago. And I think he hit the nail on the head
from the international perspective, of allies at least. He said, look, Joe Biden is the right man in the right place at the right time.
Why?
Quite simply because he has the experience to try to put the pieces of the United States back together and get it back on a global track, closer to
where allies would like to see it. And I think that's kind of the position at the moment.
ANDERSON: Many of those allies hoping that the four years of the Trump presidency, which basically shattered this sort of 70-year multilateral
approach to world affairs through work with its allies, might just be part of the mend that comes with that Biden presidency.
I wonder -- we certainly know that Joe Biden and Anthony Blinken talk a lot about multilateralism. They talk about the importance of alliances. They
talk about the importance of NATO, for example.
Do you genuinely believe that sort of the broken multilateral track, as it were, is going to be one that will be fixed anytime soon?
ROBERTSON: No. One of the things that's going to make it harder is trust and confidence in the United States going forward. The United States'
enemies are doing their best to undermine that.
President Rouhani of Iran said what President Trump has done to U.S. trust around the world will take a long time to mend. That does seem to be the
reality view from allies as well.
Much as they want to rebuild that trust, the United States' enemies like China will, of course, make much of that. Biden himself has said he'll have
a summit on democracy to try to bring allies together.
But for allies to enter into the sort of, you know, open-ended, long-term strategic partnership that they had with the United States before, because
the world order is now changing -- China is in a much different position -- is going to be harder because there will be less confidence that the United
States is as stable as it was.
The problems Biden faces to unite the country and the deep anger that sits in some parts of the Republican Party is a clear signal to the world that
the United States is changing.
And it's not just the United States, a sort of populist, nationalist fringe elements in other countries are there as well, these are all issues that
are going to have to be contended with.
So yes, Biden will outreach to allies and allies will look to the United States for leadership. But it's not going to be such a happy, easy alliance
as it was before. People are going to look for reassurances. And Biden, as we've said, is going to have his hands full dealing with issues at home.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson on the story for us. Always a pleasure. Nic is our international diplomatic editor. Thank you, Nic.
While Mr. Trump isn't exactly flavor of the month in much of the world, at least one billionaire right here in the UAE is sticking by him. The owner
of one of the region's largest property developers, Damac, which partners with President Trump on a golf course in Dubai and is working on a second
one, insists he has, quote, "absolutely no intention" of canceling any deals with Trump and further, Hussain Sajwani claims he wants to strike
even more deals. There you go.
Many Republican lawmakers have twisted themselves in knots over the past four years to please Donald Trump.
Has the party now become radicalized under him?
That discussion is coming up.
Also ahead, 13 scientists from the World Health Organization finally land in Wuhan, China, to investigate the origins of COVID-19. We'll tell you why
two others were blocked from entering the country.
And China's Sinovac vaccine is challenging reports it's a big disappointment, even as it rolls out in Turkey. We are at the scene in
Istanbul.
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ANDERSON: Following months of negotiations with China, a team from the WHO has finally touched down in Wuhan. They're there to investigate the origins
of COVID-19.
Chinese officials greeted them in hazmat suits, gave them throat swabs and brought them immediately to a hotel for a two-week quarantine. This as
Mainland China sees its highest daily increase in cases in over five months. It's just reported its first COVID-19 related death in eight
months.
Let's bring in CNN's David Culver to explain.
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Becky, we know that the Chinese government has faced a lot of skepticism when it comes to being
transparent and allowing international experts into Mainland China and into Wuhan so as to do source tracing, to figure out what the exact origin of
this virus is.
Now we know that the team has come in, as you point out; two of the members not here. They are still in Singapore, where the flight originated. And the
reason that we're told that they were not able to enter Mainland China is because they tested positive for COVID-19 antibodies.
Now I can tell you that, back in November, the Chinese government made it clear through regulation that folks who were coming into China -- and you
have to have special permission to enter -- if you're coming in, you have to test negative for COVID-19 and for the antibodies.
So it seems as though these two individuals, who are scientific experts, part of the WHO team, are going to have to be retested and then deemed
clear to come back in. As for the other 13, well, they are here but they're not beginning their field research for another two weeks because folks who
come in have to then do two weeks of quarantine.
So we're hearing that they are beginning their own investigation here but that's going to be done while in quarantine. That's not really clear how
that's going to play out, if scientists from the Chinese side are going to be briefing them on some of the material they need to eventually go through
and evaluate to determine the source or if it's going to be done in another manner.
However, we do know the actual field research, going to the original ground zero, if you will, that seafood market that is believed to have been the
source of the first cluster outbreak, it's going to have to wait.
It's not going to happen immediately. So it seems that any kind of results yielded from this investigation are likewise going to be delayed a bit --
Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Meantime, we are seeing reports that China has some of the worst daily cases in a long time.
What's causing that spike, David?
CULVER: OK. So the number is 138. So you hear that and you're looking at thousands in other countries. And you say, that seems insignificant. The
reality is 138, the highest daily report of confirmed cases going back to mid-summer, and it's happening predominantly just outside of Beijing in the
neighboring province of Hubei.
And what's happening as of now is soft lockdown measures. You're talking quarantine of some of the villagers there. We're hearing from state media
some 20,000 villagers in one community have been bused to centralized quarantine.
We're also hearing that they are building a makeshift medical observation center, a hospital, building a hospital in just a few days' time.
What does that remind you of?
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CULVER: What we saw in Wuhan going back nearly a year ago. So it's alarming to hear this is happening. However, this shows you how strict some
of the Chinese measures are when it comes to cracking down on any cluster outbreak.
And you mentioned that first COVID-19 death since May of last year. So all of this has some folks a bit uneasy, especially going into the Chinese New
Year here and a time normally in which you have a lot of folks, really hundreds of millions of people, traveling back to their home provinces out
of the cities.
The government this year advising folks, in some cases ordering people, not to be doing that travel.
ANDERSON: It does seem an age ago that we were reporting on Chinese New Year back in 2020 at the beginning of all of this. This, of course, was the
first potential superspreader event, a term that's now part of our lexicon but one that was relatively new, if not completely new to us back in
January of 2020.
How far we have come. David. You have been on that journey every step of the way. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
David Culver, who has probably forgotten more about COVID than most of us will ever know.
Chinese company Sinovac says it has confidence in its vaccine. That has just been picked up by Indonesia, Brazil and Turkey. But there's been
skepticism over the veracity of its data.
Now hardhit Turkey has started rolling out the Sinovac vaccine, even amid those questions about its efficacy. The country may not be totally sold on
Sinovac but it's what Turkey's got, as it works on its own vaccine.
And the health minister wasted no time getting his first dose on television. As Turkey's top health official tries to instill confidence in
the vaccine, CNN's Arwa Damon connecting us to the rollout from a hospital in Istanbul.
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ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Turkey's coronavirus rollout has begun in hospitals like this one and clinics across the
country. They received an initial 3 million doses of China's Sinovac vaccine.
First in line for the jab are health workers. And you get your appointment through an app. You come in and you get your shot.
(Speaking foreign language).
One of the doctors here, a general surgeon, is about to get his first shot.
(Speaking foreign language).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).
DAMON: There's no problem. There's no pain.
(Speaking foreign language).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language)..
DAMON: We're psychologically ready. There's no problem. Everyone -- the entire population should be doing this. This is one of those things where
everyone really does need to stand together.
(Speaking foreign language).
Now Sinovac has the advantage that, unlike some of the other vaccines that are out there, the logistics are a bit easier in the sense that it does not
require the same extreme cold temperatures for its storage.
But there's a bit of confusion when it comes to its actual efficacy. Turkey's trial base showed it to be 91.25 percent effective. That would
sound great. But trials carried out in Indonesia, for example, put that efficacy at 70 percent; Brazil, down to 50 percent.
Now the company itself says that it does have faith in the vaccine's efficacy but we really don't know a lot at this stage. And it has not made
public any of its own data and findings.
Either way, for those here in this country that has been so hard hit by the pandemic, like so many others, there is a sense of relief that just maybe
this could be the beginning of what's been an extraordinarily difficult period -- Arwa Damon, CNN, Istanbul.
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ANDERSON: Your COVID news for you.
A few Republicans stood up to their party to impeach the U.S. president on Wednesday. My next guest on CONNECT THE WORLD says there is much more to do
to move beyond the party of Trump.
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ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson. It's half past 7:00 in the UAE, our Middle East broadcasting hub.
It's already been a dizzying, surreal and in many ways an alarming start to the new year for the United States. In politics, we've seen Congress
overriding a presidential veto, the first time they've done that under Mr. Trump. We heard Mr. Trump demand the state of Georgia "find" him votes for
him in a presidential election that he clearly lost.
And a special election also in Georgia put Democrats back in charge of the Senate. The president's furious words are blamed for inciting a riot at the
Capitol. He was banned from most social media and now he's been impeached for a second time.
All that as about 40,000 more Americans have died of the coronavirus in just the last two weeks.
But in a recent CNN op-ed, my next guest says, "Trump's dual impeachments will likely go down as acknowledgement of the immense dangers that our
republic has found itself in after the radicalization of the Republican Party resulted in a near total abandonment of norms and institutional
restraints."
Julian Zelizer has written about the rise of the Republican Party in the U.S. and the toxic political landscape that's since thrived. He's a CNN
political analyst and a professor at Princeton University.
I think back to the election of 2016 and the assumption that President Trump would lose that and all the conversations we had about the demise of
the Republican Party and how it would be rebuilt back in 2019, when, of course, Trump won the presidency and the party ran both houses.
The point at which we've got to now is very, very different.
The point that you make in the quote I just read out, do you think this impeachment will help bring back these, quote, "norms" in America?
JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think the impeachment alone can do that. I think it was an important step. I think if the House decided
not to do anything after what happened over the past month, with the attacks on the election, the efforts to overturn the election and then an
insurrection, it would have allowed this to be a precedent. So it's a first step.
But what comes next really matters just as much, both with the Republican Party and with Congress, in terms of dealing with vulnerabilities that have
been exposed in our election system and with presidential power.
ANDERSON: I am not sure that our viewers around the world will be much concerned about the demise of this Republican Party and its sort of current
iteration.
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ANDERSON: Were it not for the fact that clearly in a healthy democracy there ought to be healthy opposition.
So what do you make of where the Grand Old Party is at?
And how does it move on from here?
ZELIZER: I say radicalization of the party because I really feel that that captures where the GOP is. It's a party where many of the leaders are
willing to do almost anything in pursuit of partisan power, whether it's just attacking basic facts, scientific facts, economic facts, political
facts or going to places that politicians in previous generations weren't willing to go in order to win.
You have a party that is pretty on board with doing that. You need a generation of leaders that says there have to be boundaries. There have to
be limits. We need to focus on governance as well.
And I think it's going to be a generational change. Otherwise, the current leadership of the party is not even going to be shaken by what happened
here on January 6th.
ANDERSON: Mitch McConnell, you know, the sort of -- what our viewers will recognize him as this sort of leading light in this current iteration of
the Republican Party, as he has been for years and years, now into his 80s. Not likely, I assume, to be running again.
It would help or at least it would be a start, wouldn't it, if we saw a more measured, more empathetic, more bipartisan approach to America's
politics at the outset of Joe Biden's administration.
After all, lest we forget, there is a raging pandemic. The economy is on its knees, whether or not that is reflected by the stock market. The
American people need help.
Is it likely, even though we wish for a more empathetic, bipartisan approach to politics, is it likely we will get one?
ZELIZER: It's not likely. Viewers who remember the Obama presidency will remember that, even as the economy was falling apart here in 2009 and 2010,
the Republicans were unwilling to compromise with the administration on basic issues like an economic stimulus.
And Senator McConnell devoted himself to obstruction. He wanted no compromise. So this would have to be a transformation of who he is.
And you're right. Look, there are two tests for McConnell and we'll see where he is. One is the Senate impeachment vote that will ultimately take
place. And two is a stimulus bill that the Biden administration is going to put forward, which includes much needed aid to the states in the United
States.
And until now, McConnell has opposed that. And we'll see if there's any kind of movement. If anything has scared Senator McConnell, it's the
results of the election in Georgia, I think, more than the insurrection because he sees the cost that some of this new Republican Party is paying
for what it's become.
And that's the only thing that might move him to some sort of governing compromise.
ANDERSON: Interesting analysis.
To your op-ed, you also write -- 197 Republicans voted against the impeachment.
On that, you write in that same op-ed, "If party members want to talk about separating themselves from Trumpism, this vote confirms that they have done
just the opposite. Trumpism is Republicanism pure and simple."
You make a good point there. It is yet, of course, to be seen how Mitch McConnell conducts himself in the Senate trial and what he does, whether he
votes to convict the president and whether he can drag party members with him.
If that is the case and maybe we are seeing a bit more of a disconnect between the two. Julian, thank you. Always a pleasure.
ZELIZER: Thank you for having me.
ANDERSON: We'll take a short break. Back after this.
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