Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Hospitals in Brazil's Amazon Sink as Virus Variant Surges; E.U. Upset with AstraZeneca's Slow Delivery; Some Ultraorthodox Jews Defying Israel's COVID-19 Policy; Blinken Reviewing Houthi Terror Designation amid Yemen Crisis; In Wall Street versus Main Street, Redditors Punch Out Hedge Funds; U.S. to Ship Out Vaccines instead of Stockpiling. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired January 28, 2021 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Things opened up, life got back to normal and then came a new COVID variant, P.1, originating right
here in Brazil, a kind of a perfect storm.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, CNN, deep inside the Amazon, doctors there forced to decide who lives and who dies as COVID-19
crushes the region.
Then --
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The numbers of people inside the ultraorthodox community who died from coronavirus are unusually
high.
Calm down.
ANDERSON (voice-over): -- some ultra orthodox Jewish communities defying lockdown restrictions in Israel. We break down why, just ahead.
Plus, David versus Goliath, the big guy versus the little guy, Wall Street against Main Street. How a group of Redditors are taking on billionaire
hedge funds and winning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: It's 11:00 in the morning in Manaus in Brazil. It's 5:00 in the afternoon in Jerusalem in Israel, 7:00 in the evening here in Abu Dhabi in
the UAE. And we are expecting through all of those datelines tonight. Welcome to the program.
No oxygen, no ventilators, no hope. This hour, we begin deep in the Amazon rain forest in Brazil, where people are quite simply waiting to die. The
city of Manaus suffering through a second wave of the coronavirus as a new variant strikes hard and fast.
It's so virulent that Brazil's health minister announcing that the number of infections tripling just this month. We wanted to know more so we
deployed CNN's Matt Rivers out there, connecting you to the story on the ground in Manaus -- Matt.
RIVERS: Yes, Becky, we're outside one of the busiest hospitals here in Manaus at this point. We just spoke to a nurse actually just a few minutes
ago.
She told us, at certain points during the month of January, literally dozens of people have died in this hospital behind me. And we've been here
about an hour now. Look at the scene behind me, ambulance after ambulance after ambulance has shown up. And as tragic as this is, it is also very
common right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RIVERS (voice-over): The tense quiet outside the small hospital in Iranduba, Brazil, can change so fast. An ambulance suddenly pulls up in
front of the hospital as a woman inside is given CPR, medics desperately trying to save her.
But a hospital source told us she died soon after this video was shot. The woman was the third COVID-19 patient to die here this morning alone.
The overwhelmed hospital is a small example of a massive outbreak here in Brazil's northwest. Its epicenter known as the gateway to the Amazon, the
city of Manaus. The city of about 2 million is replete with scenes like this, patients packed into unsanitary hospitals with a startling lack of
ventilators or even just oxygen.
Recovery is a mirage. In what's been the city's deadliest month in the pandemic by far, many here are simply waiting to die.
This doctor says, "We've got 15 patients and there's 2 beds. It's difficult to say that we choose who lives and dies but we do try and save the ones
with the best chance to live."
Health officials at all levels have acknowledged shortcomings. And doctors and nurses are clearly doing their best with the little they have. But
Manaus has been here before. In April and May last year the health care system collapsed for the first time during the first COVID-19 wave.
Some studies suggested up to 75 percent of Manaus got the virus. Thousands of newly dug graves pockmark the city cemetery but now even those are not
enough.
RIVERS: So that's why the government is quickly building these, so-called vertical graves. They are basically coffin-sized sections that will stack
on top of one another and they are doing it this way because they are running out of space.
By the time this project is ultimately done, the government says they will have built 22,000 vertical graves to meet the expected demand.
RIVERS (voice-over): So many people got sick the first time, many here simply believe that herd immunity would prevent another round, despite many
warnings from experts that that might not be true. Brazil's COVID skeptic president, Jair Bolsonaro, said there wouldn't be a second wave.
[10:05:00]
RIVERS (voice-over): Things opened up, life got back to normal and then came a new COVID variant, p1, originating right here in Brazil, a kind of a
perfect storm.
SCOTT HENSLEY, VIRAL IMMUNOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: I'm usually not alarmist about these kinds of things and I'm concerned about what we
are seeing in Brazil right now.
RIVERS (voice-over): A recent study in Manaus found two-thirds of recent infections are caused by the variant, prompting fears that this variant
spreads faster.
Back outside the small hospital in Iranduba, we meet Maxilila Silva da Silva. Her brother has been inside with COVID for weeks in desperate need
of better care that just doesn't exist here right now.
Next to the hospital, a refrigerated container was brought in to store bodies.
"Take our cry for help to the world," she tells us.
"Tell them that this system is killing Brazilians. People who can't get into hospitals are dying."
Halfway through our interview, though, we had to pause. There was a new suspected COVID patient arriving, crying as he's admitted, because
everybody here knows what can happen once you go inside -- Matt Rivers, CNN, Manaus, Brazil.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIVERS: And people are livid here, Becky, over the government response or the lack thereof. What we've heard from government officials is blaming
this all on the variant. Nobody saw this coming. We couldn't have been prepared.
That does not excuse the fact that the government was not prepared for the possibility of a second wave. Had they talked to any epidemiologist, that
person would have told the government that variants have always been a possibility.
To that end, to that incompetence, we know that the health secretary of the country of Brazil is now under criminal investigation by federal
authorities for his role in this particular calamity.
Despite all of that, president Jair Bolsonaro yesterday said that the federal government did more here, did more than its obligation in Manaus
than was necessary.
Becky, four times the amount of people in the first three weeks of January died than in any other month during this pandemic. And yet that's the
response from this COVID-skeptic president in this country. It's a staggering lack of remorse for his lack of action and also a staggering
lack of empathy for the citizens he purports to represent.
ANDERSON: Matt is on the story for you and he will continue to chase. It's frightening and we will keep you bang up to date on what is going on in
Brazil. Matt, thank you.
To a story equally as startling but in an entirely different way, as big government takes on big pharma, both of whom rarely, with even faint praise
(ph). AstraZeneca claims it needs time to work out the kinks in its supply chain before it can actually deliver the doses that the European Union has
ordered from it.
Sounds simple enough, right?
Well, Brussels not happy. The E.U. accuses the company of not following through on its promises.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STELLA KYRIAKIDES, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR HEALTH AND FOOD SAFETY: Not being able to ensure manufacturing capacity is against the letter and the
spirit of our agreement. We reject the logic of first come, first served.
That may work at the neighborhood butcher but not in contracts and not in our advanced purchase agreements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Connecting you tonight, Melissa Bell outside AstraZeneca's plant in Belgium, where inspectors have been asked to carry out a spot check at
the request of the European Union. Melissa joining us live with what she's learned.
Just what have you learned?
And just explain what's going on here.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, the fact of this inspection, Becky, really gives you a measure of how bad the blood has
become between the European Union and AstraZeneca.
You mentioned there the announcement by the company just a few days ago that there would be substantial shortfalls in the delivery of vaccines to
the European Union.
When you look at the first quarter, the E.U. had been expecting to get 80 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine that we expect will be approved
for use in the E.U. tomorrow by the Europeans Medicine Agency.
In fact is now hearing it's only going to get just over 30 million. That's how substantial the shortfall is.
AstraZeneca's explanations, that it was because of production difficulties, production slowness at sites like this one, one of the main ones on the
continent, where its vaccine is produced, those claims are what the E.U. wanted to get to the bottom of.
Clearly distrustful of what AstraZeneca is saying. So that inspection carried out by the Belgian medicines agency that took place just earlier
this week was aimed at finding out whether it is indeed because of slow production at sites like this one that the shortfalls are going to be the
result.
[10:10:00]
BELL: The sneaking suspicion in Brussels, Becky, of course, that it is perhaps more to do with exports of vaccines that are being produced here on
the continent towards the United Kingdom that are really at fault.
The E.U. said it is also going to be keeping a close eye on exports as well. It gives you an idea of just how low the levels of trust have fallen
between European officials and the pharma company.
ANDERSON: Melissa Bell on that story for you. Thank you.
Let's connect you to another type of COVID crisis, this time in Israel. That country so far the world's fastest at vaccinating its citizens.
But some among Israel's ultraorthodox Jewish communities are shunning the program and defying the latest nationwide lockdown restrictions to contain
the virus, as new variants there spread. As Sam Kiley now tells us, that defiance has sparked violent clashes with police.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KILEY (voice-over): Israeli police fleeing an angry crowd of ultraorthodox Jews, one so fearful he fires a live round into the air. Police deployed to
the ultraorthodox city of Bnei Brak in a show of force amid religious rage at the government's attempts to impose nationwide lockdown rules on the
community's schools and synagogues.
Many Israelis are bitter over what they see as overtolerance of lockdown violations by significant parts of the ultraorthodox community. This
ultraorthodox wedding attracted scores of guests.
At around 12 percent of the country's population, they are a potent political force. And this is an election year.
Still, as large gatherings have been banned, they remain defiant, continuing to clash with police here in Jerusalem and to attack the media.
KILEY: This poster, which has been defaced by local people here, was exhorting them not to take the vaccine, calling it "the vaccine of death,"
a particularly sad term given that the rest of the posters here relate to people who have died, not all necessarily from the COVID pandemic, although
the numbers of people inside the ultraorthodox community who have died from coronavirus are unusually high.
Calm down. Calm down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here. Get out of here. Get the camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are cruel. You are murderers.
KILEY: Calm down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down.
KILEY (voice-over): They've been misled into anger by posters warning against vaccinations and speaking of a media conspiracy to hide beliefs
that a so-called "vaccination of death" has brought the British COVID variant to Israel.
Even the ultraorthodox mayor of Bnei Brak is caught up in violence as a result of misinformation and threats.
He said, "We denounce, we condemn any kind of violence. Any violence against a human being or between human beings is not our way. We condemn it
and denounce it in every way. Also in particular, violence of police against people that have come to be good to the city."
Bnei Brak is recording COVID positive rates at 21 percent and, like many ultraorthodox cities, is labeled an Israeli government COVID red zone, a
status that's caused grief to many inhabitants.
RABBI DOV HALBERTAL, JEWISH LAW EXPERT: Morally, we failed. Means that instead of taking the life as a supreme value, we are often taking the
passion of religion as the main value.
KILEY (voice-over): A view that the very young, at least, would struggle to comprehend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Sam Kiley joining me now live from Jerusalem.
Is this -- could this be described as the only problem community, Sam?
KILEY: Well, sadly not, Becky. The other community inside Israel proper, if you like, setting aside the issues that we've covered in the past for
the Palestinians, are Israeli Arabs, who, in the east of Jerusalem, are being vaccinated at a very rapid speed.
But elsewhere in the country and, in contrast to the Jewish and Druze communities, have very, very low levels of vaccination indeed. There
appears to be social media campaigns, conspiracy theories, disinformation that's affected that community, too.
[10:15:00]
KILEY: There also seems to be a link between high levels of infection also affecting the Arab Israeli community as they are, the Haredis, because they
are the two poorest communities inside Israel. As we've seen around the world, the poor tend to suffer most from this COVID pandemic -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, important. Sam, I want to stay in region but I want to change tack just slightly here. Antony Blinken, the new U.S. secretary of
state, sworn in earlier this week, not losing any time in laying out some of what looks like Joe Biden's new policy on the region; some of it new,
some of it perhaps not so new, not least regarding Iran. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: If Iran comes back into full compliance with its obligations under the JCPOA, the United States would do
the same thing.
And then we would use that as a platform to build with our allies and partners what we call the longer and stronger agreement and to deal with a
number of other issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Which means what, exactly, Sam?
KILEY: It's a reset, to some extent to the Obama policy. But leaving the gates open, very wide, for an opportunity for those who believe that the
Iranians cannot be trusted even in the context of an Iran deal, a return to the so-called JCPOA, notably Israel but not alone there.
Certainly the Emiratis, the Saudis and others are also very anxious about Iranian potential belligerence with a nuclear weapon. It leaves the gate
open to the idea that if they give this opportunity to the Iranians, the Iranians will have to dial down their nuclear program, which, by their own
admission, is now capable of producing uranium enriched to 25 percent.
They announced that a few weeks ago so they are in breach of the nuclear deal. The Europeans and others are sticking with the deal in the hope that
they can be persuaded back into it.
But by announcing also that he wants a longer, more enduring, perhaps more restricted deal, he might also be able to sweep diplomatic support back in
behind the idea of diplomacy with Iran, rather than the Trump administration's recently abandoned diplomacy policy of maximum pressure,
something that will make -- perhaps be reassuring to key allies in the Gulf, notably Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
ANDERSON: Mr. Blinken also suggesting that he wants to reverse the Houthi designation as a terrorist organization, which was a move made by the Trump
administration in its sort of dying weeks. I just wonder how difficult you think that reversal might be and why it is that a Biden administration
wants to see that move.
KILEY: The why is very simple. The why is that, as an organization or an organism, a political organism, the Houthis, defined as a terrorist
movement, it means Americans can't work with it, American banking systems and other financial structures can't be used in any way that could be
interpreted as supporting or empowering the Houthis.
That makes the humanitarian operations there much, much more difficult. It's not impossible; Hamas, for example, in Gaza, which is the ruling party
there, is also designated a terrorist organization, not just by the United States but by other governments. And yet the U.N. and others are able to
run humanitarian missions there.
But it does effectively hobble humanitarian missions at a time when a huge percentage of the country is already dependent on particularly food aid and
financial support to buy food within that country.
The methodology by which the Biden administration can get the Houthis off the terrorist list is fairly straightforward. But again, it is also
slightly problematic diplomatically because the Saudis are belligerent. They're supporting the international recognized government there. It's
conducting occasional airstrikes still against the Houthis.
And it was very much supportive of this terrorist designation. It may be possible that they'll dial it down a little. I think a little bit of window
for that was left by Tony Blinken when he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLINKEN: And so we want to make sure that any of these steps, including the designation, don't make what is already an incredibly difficult task
even more difficult.
[10:20:00]
BLINKEN: That is the provision of the humanitarian aid to the people of Yemen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: So it's being reviewed, not reversed at this stage. It's conceivable he may have a watered-down version going forward. It will be
difficult to see how that really works. But he's not rushing into it. Quite interesting that he's taking it, the process, quite delicately at this
stage, Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. And we'll see more from Tony Blinken and his Middle East file in the days and weeks to come. Thank you, Sam.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD, live from our Middle East broadcasting hub here in Abu Dhabi.
Still ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Stay at home. Stay at home.
"This is how you're asking people to stay at home?
"As your husband, give money to the people for them to eat and drink."
ANDERSON (voice-over): Anger erupting for a third straight night on the streets of Lebanon's second largest city. We are live in the country just
ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And what if I told you just a few weeks ago you could have bought this stock for just a few bucks?
Well, just look at it now. How far it's gone, why and why so fast. A hint, Reddit, which may not be much of a hint to some of you. The details up
next.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: Here's a David and Goliath story that you don't often hear. It's a story of GameStop, a company whose stock price was just in the teens a
couple of weeks ago and now look at it. Look at it. As we speak, topping $400.
How and why?
And what even is GameStop?
It's just a brick and mortar video shop to buy games in, a bit of a throwback to the '80s, if you will. Speaking of video games, let's play
this out.
Play this out. You'll see what I mean.
Fire it up, guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): So GameStop in the middle of the battle between ordinary investors and hedge funds, the funds wealthy as they are and
getting -- used to getting their own way on the street on GameStop -- betting on GameStop's price falling.
But enter Player Two, the ordinary traders piling in and buying shares instead, driving the price higher. But then the hedge funds come back with
a counterpunch. They need to cover their bets. And that drives the price even higher.
But the retail traders, the little guys, if you will, not about to lie down at that point. They bought more what are known as call options, sort of
like the dotcom boom of the 1990s. And now some hedge funds are down for the count.
[10:25:00]
ANDERSON (voice-over): Out and cutting their losses to the tune of billions.
The question, will this go on?
Well, it could. Traders putting their money elsewhere, like in to Nokia, BlackBerry and the cinema chain AMC.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Let's ride this roller coaster with my friend and colleague Julia Chatterley, live from New York.
There's one word for this. Wow, right?
Just explain what we are seeing here.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Wowee, I have to say, what a great explanation. You're exactly right. What we're seeing here I think is a
confluence of two things. The power of social media and for people to congregate on social media and debate ideas and discuss things, matched
with what we call a democratization of access to financial markets.
All these free platforms, where people can get access and trade stocks. And the confluence of those two factors has allowed people to look at this and
go, hey, look at these hedge funds. We're going to take them on. They're trying to take one of these companies out of business. We're going to buy
it against them and make them lose lots of money.
And we see the price soar. And that's what you're seeing played out over the space of a few days. This is not investing, Becky. This is casino
trading. This is a seismic shift, I think, in the financial markets. And a new player, which is these small investors that can congregate together and
create outsized shifts, wowzers.
ANDERSON: Yes, wowzers.
Isn't that fascinating?
As you and I have been speaking, this stock has been up as much as 19 percent. It's now up 12 percent. That is the wild ride that these investors
are on.
Back in the '80s, late '80s, early '90s, when the retail market really took off and you saw these day traders out there, we hit this point of
irrational exuberance. It was -- the markets were all over the place. And so many companies were taken out, so many traders were taken out at the
same time.
And, obviously, when you see environments like this, we hear people questioning whether there needs to be more regulation. Our colleague -- in
some ways, to protect people, it has to be said -- but our colleague Richard Quest spoke to Jordan Belfort of, the author of "Wolf on Wall
Street." Have a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JORDAN BELFORT, AUTHOR: The SEC and NEC are playing catch-up ball. They're always trying to be adding stock and so eventually they will do something
here. And they'll come up with some laws or circuit breakers that don't allow this to happen. But that could take three to six months. It will,
eventually, I believe, stop. And it should.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: He says eventually it will stop and it should.
What are your thoughts?
CHATTERLEY: Yes, he mentioned two very important things there. He talked about circuit breakers, which would give people a cooling-off period and
prevent some of these crazy and these crazy market moves and volatility. I'm not sure that works.
But I've spoken to officials that have previously worked at the SEC and they are also suggesting this.
Then the question of what's going on here?
Is this collusion?
Are small players coming together here to manipulate the market based on false information?
And that goes back to the '90s and pump and dump schemes, where you pump up the price and sell the shares. Some people make a lot of money. Others lose
a lot of money.
So are laws being broken here?
That's what we need to understand.
Is there a way to give people a cooling-off period amid all this excitement with what's going on?
Those are two very separate things. Now I spoke actually to the founder of this Reddit page, WallStreetBets, which is where these traders are
congregating, to get his sense of whether you believe, when he founded this, this was going to end up happening but also what he sees going on now
compared to what we saw in the '90s.
Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAIME ROGOZINSKY, WALLSTREETBETS: There's a lot of talk about how this resembles the '90s and the dotcom bubble and chat rooms and how people
would discuss things. But this is fundamentally different.
No longer are these people placing bets on, you know, a sports game or horse race but on a market in a way that they're affecting the odds of the
outcome. The numbers are so big and the access, which is the key to your question, is the biggest part because this is so easy, free, readily
available, completely gamified on people's cell phones.
They're able to instantly get in and participate and start using these sophisticated leverage tools that they're able to exploit the asymmetry of
money. A lot of people, they are forcing the big guys to, you know, they're forcing the hands of the big guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Becky, GameStop is up 2,000 percent year to date. That is so out of line with the fundamentals of this business. I don't care what you
say. I said to him, look, it's a bubble. Bubbles pop and people get hurt and people lose money.
And he said to me, bubbles are Boomer mentality.
Becky, if regulators, central bank governors aren't listening to this, they need to be. Boomer mentality. Scary.
ANDERSON: That's fascinating. Listen, I was doing this same job back in the late -- mid, late '90s when we were seeing similar situations. Your
guest wasn't prepared to acknowledge the fact that this is a similar situation. I think it is.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
ANDERSON: Fascinating.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: If laws aren't being broken, you could argue that this is just the little guys, you know, for once, you know, having -- having some
success against the big guys, who own these markets. These short funds, you know, trade something like $400 billion a year. This is a big market, these
short funds.
And, anyway, it's fascinating to watch. We'll follow this because GameStop is just one of, you know, it's just one company involved in this. But look,
there's a lot more going on. Good stuff. GameStop has been as high as, I think, about $410, since you and I have been speaking.
Taking a short break. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: As it stands, somewhere around three-quarters of Americans need to be vaccinated for COVID-19 in order for things to return to some
semblance of normality there. Just over 1 percent of the U.S. population has been fully vaccinated, meaning they have received two doses.
Now the new president's pandemic response centering on working out the kinks of the vaccine rollout. There are many of those. And only time will
tell if his team can achieve that.
The truth is, there is no time to be had. Just yesterday, another 4,000 Americans died from this virus. Joining me now, infectious disease
specialist and epidemiologist Dr. Celine Gounder. She was a member of the Biden-Harris transition COVID advisory board and joins me now from New
York.
Currently just over 1 percent of Americans have had two doses.
[10:35:00]
ANDERSON: Andy Slavitt, from the COVID response team, said it will be months until those who want to get vaccinated can get vaccinated.
What are your thoughts at this point?
Just how -- just how ambitious is this plan?
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: So we have a couple different bottlenecks. Some of them are around supply. Some are around distribution
and some are in the later stages, likely of vaccination, will be around hesitancy.
In terms of supply, we have at least 100 million doses that will be available to us by the end of March. The president plans to get 100 million
shots at a minimum into arms by 100 days in office. And he's hoping to get to more.
And we also now have seen that the -- both Pfizer and Moderna have negotiated with the current administration to provide an additional 200
million doses. So that will be 300 million total by the end of the summer. So that would be enough to vaccinate about 150 million Americans with the
current two vaccines.
Supply will continue to be a challenge. We are looking at a couple other vaccine candidates being submitted to the FDA for emergency use
authorization, a vaccine from Johnson & Johnson and another from AstraZeneca and a third from Novavax. That may dramatically open up the
supply.
But we have to understand that, over the next several months, there is still going to be limited supply and that means that not everybody who
wants to get vaccinated will be able to get vaccinated right away.
ANDERSON: Meantime, I want to turn to a concerning remark from the FDA director. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. TIMOTNY STENZEL, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: We are starting to see mutations to impact tests. And obviously single target and multiple target,
targeting multiple versions of the SARS virus. There is a -- there may be a performance difference going forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And we are beginning to hear these concerns about the efficacy of vaccines going forward.
What's your message at this point?
GOUNDER: Yes, so there are three main variants that we're worried about, one out of the U.K., which appears to be more contagious, more
transmissible, possibly more virulent. If it spreads more easily from person to person, you'll end up with more cases, more hospitalizations,
more deaths.
And that's precisely what the U.K. has seen. The other two strains of concern, variants of concern out of South Africa and Brazil, are a little
different. Those do show that the immune response, whether it's the natural immune response or the immune response to the vaccines, is weaker in the
face of these new variants.
There is still an immune response to the vaccines. This is definitely a case where vaccination is going to protect you much, much better than a
natural infection would. Vaccination will give you a stronger immune response, a longer lasting immune response.
But we are seeing that it's a bit weaker, the vaccine induced immune response against these variants. The vaccines still work. You should still
get vaccinated. It just means the companies need to stay ahead of this if we continue to see these variants mutate and develop probably some booster
doses for people to get in the fall and winter.
ANDERSON: Just how concerned are you that some 50 percent -- and it may be more -- of Americans have an issue with vaccines, whether they are anti-
vaxers, whether they're vaccine hesitant.
If you are trying to reach herd immunity in the U.S. -- like other places are, here in the UAE, similar ambition -- looking at least 50 percent of
this population vaccinated by mid-March, possibly significantly more.
If you are looking at herd immunity to return to some semblance of normality, what about those 50 percent of Americans, who say they're not
interested?
GOUNDER: So one of the things we have already seen is that, once you hit a tipping point of a certain proportion of people vaccinated in a community
or a social network, that essentially becomes an infectious behavior, you could say, because people see their friends and family doing it. Their
colleagues doing it.
They see the vaccines are indeed safe and effective and then they feel comfortable at that point doing what everybody else is doing. So I do
think, once you reach that tipping point, the vast majority of people who have hesitancy will come on board.
You do have three particular groups where hesitancy is more entrenched.
[10:40:00]
GOUNDER: That's communities of color, especially Black Americans and indigenous Americans, who have been the victims of both medical system
abuse and experimentation and so have very good reason not to trust the system.
And then you also have rural Americans and right wing partisans who are skeptical of the vaccine. And those will require specific outreach through
trusted messengers to those communities.
ANDERSON: Briefly, would Joe Biden consider mandating vaccinations at some point?
Very briefly.
GOUNDER: I don't think he will. I think a mandate would likely backfire here.
ANDERSON: With that, we'll leave it there. Thank you for joining us.
We will be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): You are looking at Indonesia's most active volcano, Mt. Merapi, sending out huge clouds of smoke and ash on Wednesday. Houses
nearby were covered in ash and the eruption forced authorities to warn of flowing lava that could reach nearby roads.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The local geological authority said it kept spewing out, quote, "quite intense" hot clouds throughout the day. Reports say hundreds of
people fled. No word on any injuries. Mt. Merapi's last major eruption was in 2010 and, at that time, it killed more than 300 people.
(WORLD SPORTS)
[11:00:00]
END
