Return to Transcripts main page

Connect the World

U.K. Think Tank Chief Calls for Door-to-Door Vaccinations; Awaiting Intel Report on Jamal Khashoggi's Killing; France to Impose Local Lockdowns as Variant Spreads; U.S. FDA OKs Johnson & Johnson Vaccine; White Supremacy in the U.S. Military. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired February 25, 2021 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST (voice-over): This hour, global coronavirus cases are declining but variants are spreading faster than ever. The impact that's

having in Europe ahead.

Then as the U.K. speeds ahead with vaccinations, a British think tank is calling for door to door vaccinations.

And the future on U.S.-Saudi relations as we await an intelligence report on the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ASHER: Hello, everyone. I'm Zain Asher in for Becky Anderson. Welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD.

We're waiting for U.S. intelligence report that could shed new light on the gruesome murder of journalist and Saudi critic Jamal Khashoggi. It was

expected to be released today after a phone call between President Biden and the Saudi king.

Meantime, Saudi documents labeled as top secret filed in a case being heard in Canada show the two private planes used by the hit men were actually

owned by a company controlled by Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman.

Khashoggi went into a Saudi consulate in Turkey in October of 2018 and was never seen again. It is believed that he was tortured, killed and actually

dismembered as well. The CIA has said it is highly probable that bin Salman ordered the killing himself. He denies being involved.

I want to bring in Nic Robertson, who joins us live from London.

This report, this intelligence report was due today.

What more can you tell us?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The expectation was at least that on the Saudi side that this wouldn't be a smoking gun

implicating crown prince Mohammed bin Salman.

But it would reflect and perhaps put more flesh on the bones of the CIA's conclusion at the time, which was that the high degree of confidence that

crown prince Mohammed bin Salman did order the killing of Jamal Khashoggi.

However, you know, that -- the report that was brought forward through legal requirement in the United States wasn't made public under president

Trump. Avril Haines, the Director of National Intelligence, during her confirmation hearing, said that she would make it public.

So it's sort of happening through legal process, if you will. But what's inside of it we really don't know because we haven't had any intelligence

officials come forward with more information to allow us the understanding of why the CIA came to this conclusion that they did.

So this is a potentially big moment in the relationship between Saudi Arabia and the United States because, if there is something in there, if

there was to be a smoking gun, which isn't the expectation at the moment, if there wasn't, that would understandably put a big strain on the

relationship between President Biden and the crown prince Mohammed bin Salman.

However, we know that there's a recalibration going on in the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia at the moment. And at the

moment, President Biden has said that he will speak directly, by phone call, with the king, not the crown prince. And that was expected to happen

last night.

And it didn't happen last night. I think now it's expected perhaps to be in the coming days. So at the moment, the relationship really, to a degree,

hangs in part on what comes forth in that report when we get to see it.

ASHER: Nic, depending on the contents, as you say, of course, have to be careful but, depending on the contents and if there's a smoking gun, what

attempts will the Biden administration make to hold the Saudis accountable?

ROBERTSON: Well, President Biden had said during the campaign trail that he would treat Saudi Arabia as the pariah that it is.

He's already said he won't support their war, their military campaign in Yemen against the Houthis there, who took control of the country from the

internationally recognized government several years ago, that he would follow diplomatic process there to try to bring about peace and stability

and sort of improve the humanitarian situation.

So the relationship's already changed there. He has said the relationship would continue as the United States being a strong advocate, ally and

supporter of Saudi Arabia from the enemies in the region that would attack it.

[10:05:00]

ROBERTSON: We know the Houthis have launched attacks into Saudi Arabia by missiles and drones, that there was an attack believed to emanate from Iran

on Saudi oil fields just over -- about a 1.5 years ago. So the United States has made that part of the position clear.

However, the stronger the report against crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, the stronger that is, the more likely there would be for congressional

pressure to sort of tie President Biden's hands in his relationship with Saudi Arabia and perhaps introduce sanctions on weapons sales to Saudi

Arabia.

And the reason in the diplomatic sense that this could be not a turning point in the relationship but a significant shift in the relationship is

that Saudi Arabia is able and capable to look to other weapon suppliers, like China, like Russia.

And Saudi Arabia is such a big player in the Gulf, such a power in the Gulf that, if there was a significant shift in the relationship between the

United States and Saudi Arabia -- which isn't happening at the moment -- but if there was, then that could advantage one of the United States'

enemies if you will, Russia or China.

So there are big things at play. But that's predicated on such a damaging report to implicate the crown prince in such a way that there would be

congressional pressure that President Biden wouldn't be able to stand in the way of.

ASHER: Nic Robertson, live for us there. Thank you so much.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ASHER: New coronavirus warnings out of Europe today, with both Germany and France staring down the prospect of a third wave driven by COVID variants

in Germany. Chancellor Angela Merkel says that without needed precautions, the country faces another total, complete shutdown.

Nearly 12,000 new cases have been reported there in the past day.

France recorded more than 30,000 new daily cases for the first time since November. ICU admissions are ticking up as well. Localized lockdowns are

going into effect this weekend. I want to bring in Melissa Bell, who is joining us live from Paris.

How much of a role is the U.K. variant in particular playing in these spikes?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, the European figures were beginning to look much better as a result of the substantial restrictions

in place in so many European countries.

Then what happened was the very fast spread of this new variant, the one first identified in the United Kingdom. Two different regions of France

have now had to introduce regionalized local, partial lockdowns, closing down over the weekends, not only in the northern city of Dunkirk but on the

French Riviera.

And that is specifically because of the spread of the new variant. Take the city of Nice, 50 percent of coronavirus cases are now down to that new

variant. That's really what's driving these rising infection rates.

Of course, it's important to remember that it is under the pressure of those figures that European leaders will be meeting later today to discuss

their catastrophically slow rollout vaccine program, aiming to improve it and get things up and running again to meet that target, which seems so

very far off, of getting 70 percent of Europeans vaccinated by this summer.

Also this afternoon, the CEOs of big pharma groups will be in front of European parliamentarians and they're likely to get a rough ride; in

particular, the CEO of AstraZeneca.

The MPs will be looking not just at the shortage of deliveries back in the first quarter, that so substantially slowed down European supplies and

access to vaccines, but also fears now about what happened -- might happen in the second quarter and fears there might be shortages there.

So there should be a lot of pressure on European leaders to try and fix some of these issues that they can make some progress. You need only look

at the proportion of the British population that's been vaccinated so far, more than 26 percent.

In Europe, the country performing best is Denmark and they've only just reached 6 percent. That's how much further there is to go.

ASHER: What does all of this mean for health care services across Europe that are already not only strained but many are actually under the brink of

collapse under all of this pressure?

What does it mean when it comes to treatment for non-COVID related illnesses?

BELL: Well, this is now nearly a year of on and off lockdowns that we've seen here in Europe with over and over again, as we've seen the successive

waves sweep through the continent, various health care systems come under pressure.

Of course, it happens in that very localized way. It's the case down on the French Riviera, the hospital ICUs were so saturated with COVID cases, Zain,

that they were getting close to 100 percent and having to start canceling other operations.

And that has been what has defined the approach of European leaders to their lockdowns so far, all the time trying to resist economy-crippling

restrictions but nonetheless at some point having to impose them.

[10:10:00]

BELL: With the new variants circulating, with the vaccination campaign going as slowly as it is, it doesn't look like anything is going to get

very much better here in Europe anytime soon and certainly on this side of the summer, Zain.

ASHER: Melissa Bell live for us, thank you so much.

Just a few hours from now, U.S. President Joe Biden will be marking a milestone in his country's fight against COVID-19. The White House is

planning to commemorate the 50 millionth vaccine shot given out to Americans under the Biden administration.

Meanwhile, the two drugmakers with approved vaccines in the U.S. are looking at whether a third shot could actually help fight some of the most

worrying variants of the disease. I want to bring in our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who joins us live now.

So good to see you. So 50 million vaccine doses administered by the Biden administration alone, 66 million in total.

Where does that put the Biden administration in terms of their overall goal of 100 million doses in the first 100 days?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's been 35 days officially since the new administration took office. So, you know, at 50

million doses, they are ahead. So if it's 35 days, 50 million doses. And I think that was the anticipation all along, Zain.

Even before they started on January 21st, there had already been 17 million doses or so that had been administered. So they've clearly ramped it up.

And it looks like the numbers are increasing even more than that. So well ahead of their goal. Maybe not as fast as we should still be going but

definitely things are improving.

ASHER: OK. So well ahead of their goal. They kind of underpromised and overdelivered. That was their intention, I assume.

So in terms of maximizing the speed at which these vaccines are administered, whether it's to have most of the population vaccinated by

July or just having everything vaccinated by Christmas, how does this administration really go about maximizing the rate and the speed?

What have they learned over the past 30 days?

GUPTA: Yes, it's an interesting question, right?

Because we are undertaking something that's really never been done before in the history of the United States and many places in the world. I think

there's been a few things.

One is we're still in a situation where the supply of the vaccine is being outstripped by the demand. There's more people who want it than is actually

available as of now. And there's many places where people are particularly vulnerable to getting sick from this that have an especially hard time

getting access to this vaccine.

So in areas where there's not big pharmacies, for example, areas outside of long-term care facilities. And that's a big lesson.

How do you target areas where people are particularly vulnerable and haven't had access as of yet?

The thing is, this vaccine helps people from getting sick. You want to give it to people who are most likely to get sick. It's a simple equation. And

that's something they're still sort of figuring out.

The other part of it is it's been simple things, like do you have enough vaccines. Do you have enough vaccinators, people to push the vaccines into

people's arms?

Things like that are still being worked out. And then there's other things.

How long between the first and the second dose?

There's been a lot of people who say we should delay second doses so that you can get as many people at least the first dose as possible. These are

still questions and strategies that are being evaluated and worked out, Zain.

ASHER: We know that Moderna are looking into, rather testing a booster shot to combat variants.

What more do we know on that front?

GUPTA: This is really interesting science, Zain. Just to take a step back for a second, typically it takes years to develop vaccines. We now know

that, obviously, this vaccine was created very quickly. But the boosters could be created even more quickly.

And I can show you the different types of boosters that we're talking about here. But you know, they say, look, maybe we can give a booster of the

existing vaccine. So we're just basically giving an extra dose of that.

But within, you know, 4 to 6 weeks, they could also create essentially new variant-specific boosters. So for the strain that's been predominantly

circulating in South Africa, for example, they could look at the genetic code of that and create a new booster.

And that could be done in months as opposed to years. Or they might do a combination of both. Let's improve the overall benefit of the existing

vaccine and add in some of the variant-specific vaccine as well.

They are trialing all of this. We are learning about this real time. But this is sort of their approach. And I think it's going to inform the

approach for other vaccine makers as well.

ASHER: And in terms of another vaccine maker, Johnson & Johnson, their vaccine has been deemed as safe and effective by the FDA.

[10:15:00]

ASHER: We know it's a single dose. It's about 66 percent effective.

But the idea that it's a single dose, where does this vaccine now fit in?

What role does it play in the overall sort of global fight against COVID?

GUPTA: Yes, well, so the FDA is going to be getting their final recommendation on this tomorrow probably. But I think it plays a big role.

We can show these numbers. The numbers are important.

Everyone is paying attention to this now and you're absolutely right. This, first of all, shows that it actually has a benefit not only at preventing

illness but seems to have a benefit in terms of preventing infection as well.

That may sound obvious to people but you have to remember that all we really knew about these vaccines thus far is that they were good at

preventing people from getting sick. It wasn't clear how well they would prevent people from getting infected, which is why you're still told, after

you've received a vaccine, you still have to wear a mask.

Early evidence that it could prevent infection as well. But if you look at Johnson & Johnson and how well it prevents illness, you're quite right.

There's some fade depending on where the vaccine was trialed.

For example, in South Africa, you can see 64 percent versus the vaccine -- the virus that's circulating in the United States, it was 72 percent

effective. But I think it's really the right side of the screen that the FDA is going to be looking at.

I think regulators all over the world are going to be looking at. Nobody died and nobody was hospitalized one month after receiving the vaccine.

That's significant, Zain, no matter how you cut it. And 85 percent effective overall against serious disease, no matter the strain, no matter

where in the world the vaccine was administered.

So it's a good vaccine. And it's one shot. And it doesn't need the super cold chain storage. There's places around the world that don't have access

to the super cold freezers that are necessary for Moderna and Pfizer. So I think it could be a significant vaccine.

I think we have to be smart about who gets it and how it's rolled out. So that's going to be part of the discussion happening in the United States

this weekend and in many places around the world.

ASHER: I was talking to the head of Gavi vaccine alliance about that very issue as they roll out the vaccine in Ghana. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so

much.

Coming up next on CONNECT THE WORLD, who knew what and when?

Washington, D.C., law enforcement officials paint a grim picture of the intelligence before January 6th riots. Details ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've covered everything from portraits of the founding fathers of the KKK to swastikas.

ASHER (voice-over): How one man covers up extremist tattoos as a report sheds disturbing new light on white supremacy within the ranks of the

military.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ASHER: At this hour, U.S. House members are grilling law enforcement officials about what went wrong on January 6th. They are focused on lapses

in intelligence before the crowd of pro-Trump rioters attacked the U.S. Capitol.

The acting Capitol Police chief is telling lawmakers extra protection was put in place that fateful day. But intelligence assessments did not predict

the scope of the attack.

There's also a fight over the scope of an independent commission to investigate the riots. Republicans want to make sure it's focused solely on

the January 6th insurrection. CNN's Whitney Wild is live from Washington where the hearing is underway.

A lot of people who were at that insurrection, the Capitol Hill riots, spoke openly online on various social media platforms about exactly what

they planned to do at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th.

So why was it missed?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the outstanding question here. That's what Tim Ryan, representative Tim Ryan, asked both of the

witnesses today. The U.S. CP acting police chief as well as the House -- the acting now house sergeant at arms.

He said when this was all out in the open, people told you exactly what they were going to do, how could it be that the intelligence suggested that

the march would be more like what they had seen in November and December, which had very little violence, even though it was full of presumably these

same like-minded Trump supporters, although it didn't turn into violence?

So one of the things we're going to hear today is an observation that the intelligence was poorly analyzed, incomplete and, finally, the USCP's own

intelligence document they were working from, the final security assessment that warned of violence, is also -- had also said that they believed that

this march would look more like the past marches.

So it was -- these two conflicting ideas. They knew it would be violent but they also thought it wouldn't be violent. And Tim Ryan zeroed in on that in

his very direct and very critical opening statement, when he said, how is it possible, when all this is playing out in the public eye you missed it?

-- Zain.

ASHER: Whitney Wild, a lot of questions that definitely need to be answered. Appreciate you joining us.

More than 2 dozen people accused of taking part in the January 6th insurrection come from the very ranks of those who are sworn to protect the

United States.

A Pentagon report obtained by CNN gives disturbing insight into white supremacy and extremism in the U.S. military. And what's being done to weed

out their followers. CNN's Oren Liebermann has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cover-up was, I want to say six total sessions.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The ink can hide the symbols of extremism. But the damage runs far deeper.

DAVID BROWN, REDEMPTION INK: When he first came in and showed us the work that he had, I think everybody jaw kind of hit the floor.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): At Redemption Ink in Colorado Springs, Dave Brown has covered more than 70 extremist or hate-inspired tattoos. More than 20

he estimates were military. And he has a wait list of 635 people.

BROWN: We have covered everything from portraits of the founding fathers of the KKK to swastikas. I've covered up a human trafficking branding.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): The army veteran camouflages the tattoos of hate for reformed extremists. But these ideologies and their symbols are still

spreading in the military. Tattoos can be a calling card for white supremacists and extremists in the military, a way to grow their own ranks

in secret amidst a nationwide surge in white nationalist activity.

But according to a Department of Defense report on extremism obtained by CNN, some of the recruiting tactics are more brazen and more open. One

example in the report, a military member and co-founder of the neo-Nazi group known as Atomwaffen Division told another member that he was open

about everything with his friends at training. They love me too because I'm a funny guy, he wrote in a message.

The Defense Department determined that others find each other through obscure fascist symbols on t-shirts or simply connect on social media and

messaging apps. U.S. troops are primary targets for many extremist groups who want their training, their combat experience and the legitimacy they

bring to an organization.

The report found that members of one far-right extremist group shared military manuals including an army manual on IEDs, improvised explosive

devices, on the encrypted messaging app known as Telegram. The Capitol riots of January 6th put a spotlight on military extremism.

A CNN analysis has shown that at least 27 people facing federal charges in connection with the riot are current or former members of the military.

Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin has made the fight against domestic extremism one of his top priorities.

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: This tears at the fabric, very fabric of cohesion and it's important for us to be able to trust the men

and women on our left and right.

[10:25:00]

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Extremism has been a problem in the military for decades. Austin says he believes the number of extremists in the military

is low but there is no data to back up his assertion.

AUSTIN: I know.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Austin has ordered a review of policies on extremism. But extremism expert Heidi Beirich says this will take time.

HEIDI BEIRICH, GLOBAL PROJECT AGAINST HATE AND EXTREMISM: This is a massive management task and it's not going to be something that's done very

easily at all.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): The military has strict legal limits on the screening and background checks it can do of applicants and service

members. Deeper, more intrusive investigations require working with the FBI, a key recommendation of the DOD report. Beirich says the military

needs a better screening process to root out extremism before it enters the ranks.

BEIRICH: I would say you need to fix your screening procedures immediately. Social media accounts need to be taken a look at not just

voluntarily but seriously. You need a functioning tattoo data base for your recruiters. And they need to be trained in the signs of white supremacy.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Even beyond the challenges of rooting out domestic extremism within active ranks there's the issue of veterans. More

than 18 million of them. Who are also prime targets for domestic extremists.

LIEBERMANN: Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin's first big move when it comes to domestic extremism is ordering that military wide stand down or

review of policies and procedures in place already, to deal with extremism.

Crucially that also includes discussions at all levels of the military. For example, the Navy has already put out some guidance on this, saying it has

to review the Navy's core values, the oaths of office, as well as the rules that are already in place.

In terms of the discussions, Austin has said it's also an opportunity for military leaders to listen to what their troops have to say to them about

either experience with domestic extremism or about ideas on how to tackle it. One of the parts of this that's also very necessary is the data which

is fundamentally lacking at this point about how widespread this problem is and where specifically it exists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: Oren Liebermann reporting there.

Still to come, Britain's COVID vaccines and who gets them. The head of an independent think tank is fighting for racial equality especially when it

comes to those all-important shots. I'll be talking with her coming up.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ASHER: Coronavirus vaccine distribution in the U.S. is sputtering on. Around 66 million doses have been administered so far. But that doesn't

seem to be many, compared to the population of some 335 million people.

[10:30:00]

ASHER: The effort is being complicated by a deep distrust, especially among rural and minority communities. In fact, Black Americans are getting

vaccinated at dramatically lower rates than white Americans. Our Amara Walker takes us to the Deep South to a town in the state of Georgia, where

community organizers are going door to door.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDA HARRIS, VACCINE VOLUNTEER: Hey, handsome, how you doing?

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's hard to find someone who doesn't know Linda Harris.

HARRIS: What you been out doing (ph)?

WALKER (voice-over): Born and raised in Albany, Georgia, the community organizer and city employee of more than three decades spent the day with

her team, knocking on doors.

HARRIS: I just keep walking. They have to find me.

WALKER (voice-over): And handing out 2,000 flyers.

HARRIS: I want to give you one of these flyers.

WALKER (voice-over): Urging her neighbors to get vaccinated.

HARRIS: I'm tired of losing grandparents, grandmamas, granddaddies and some are small children, too. We just want to get the word out, you know,

that they can come get this vaccine.

WALKER (voice-over): Getting the word out about a pop-up vaccination site nearby is one thing. Dispelling suspicions is another in this small rural

city, three hours southwest of Atlanta. Nearly three quarters of the population is African American, many living in poor and underserved

communities.

DR. DEREK HEARD, PHOEBE PHYSICIAN GROUP: We know that years ago, there were horrible experiments that were done in the African American community.

So African Americans have had a very well-founded distrust of the medical community.

WALKER (voice-over): As the medical director for primary care at the only hospital system in Albany, Phoebe Putney Health, Dr. Derek Heard is

spearheading a grassroots effort in specific neighborhoods he knows are not getting vaccinated.

Phoebe Health is the largest vaccinator in Doherty County, which includes Albany. Hospital health officials say white people are being vaccinated at

more than twice the rate of Black residents. Dr. Heard says a lack of access and trust both play a role.

HEARD: COVID-19 is still ravaging our community. We're bearing the brunt of this disease. A lot of that is due to the fact that we suffer from a lot

of the diseases that cause us to be at high risk.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

WALKER (voice-over): So Phoebe Putney Health partnered with the city. Dr. Heard knows the value of having someone like Harris leading the charge on

the ground. But the distrust is often deeper than a familiar face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter won't take it but I'm a little scared. But I'm going to see. But I don't want nothing to make me sick.

WALKER (voice-over): Albany was ravaged by the coronavirus emerging as the first hot spot in Georgia last March. Just days after two funerals, the

virus swept through like a storm.

HEARD: One of the first patients to succumb to the disease was a patient of mine, who I had known my whole life.

WALKER (voice-over): The vaccination drive was not publicized in hopes of preserving the shots for this community. When the day came, there was no

wait. Fewer than 50 people showed up. Jesse Massey (ph) was one of them.

JESSE MASSEY (PH), ALBANY RESIDENT: A lot of my friends have been on the same page. A lot of people are still hesitant about getting the shot.

ALBERTA CHARLOT, NURSE AND ALBANY RESIDENT: I think today, with word of mouth, again, that those that have shown up go and go get other family

members to say, come on, it's free, it's helpful. It's keeping us alive.

WALKER (voice-over): Harris isn't discouraged by the smaller than expected turnout within her community.

HARRIS: I got that area this morning, I want to say.

WALKER (voice-over): She focuses on the fact that dozens who may not have gotten vaccinated did.

HARRIS: This is a blessing to the community because you know what it tells the people?

Tell them we're here, we care about you. We concerned about you.

WALKER (voice-over): In Albany, Georgia, Amara Walker, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: This just in to CNN, the U.K. is lowering its COVID-19 alert status from 5 down to 4. Medical officials say the pressure on the National Health

Service has been easing as well.

This comes as Britain becomes one of the world's most successful vaccinators but the Runnymede Trust, which works for race equality, says

the government needs to work harder to get shots into the arms of people in deprived communities. It's calling for door to door vaccinations in the

U.K.

Runnymede CEO Halima Begum tells "The Guardian" newspaper, "If people were not able or willing to go to GP surgeries, hospitals or vaccination

centers, members of the NHS vaccine army should go to them."

There's a wider worry here that a vaccine divide could turn COVID into a disease of poverty. Right now Halima Begum joins us live from London.

Thanks for being with us.

What is at stake here, especially for minority communities in the U.K., if the vaccine is not distributed in a way that's racially equitable?

HALIMA BEGUM, CEO, RUNNYMEDE TRUST: What's at stake here is the fact that, as we come out of this pandemic, which we are sure to do at some stage, we

will be leaving behind minority and ethnic communities who have been disproportionately impacted.

So we have to think outside the box. We have to think about innovative ways in which to get the vaccine closer to our doorsteps where our communities

are. So that's what's at stake here.

[10:35:00]

BEGUM: We cannot afford to leave anyone behind and particularly not be any communities that have been disproportionately impacted by COVID.

ASHER: It's not just minority communities who are affected if they don't receive the vaccine proportionately to white people. Everybody is affected.

It affects the ability to return to normalcy. It affects everything opening up. So just talk to us more about that.

What is at stake for the U.K. as a whole if certain communities around the country are not being vaccinated at the rate at which they should be?

BEGUM: Absolutely, Zain. You've just asked the critical question. What's at stake is not just those communities who get left behind. What we see and

I care a lot about are minority communities. They should not be left behind. But the economy as a whole cannot really get back to business.

Not only that, the U.K. is a major international hub. So because we're dealing with a global infectious disease, we cannot afford to leave anyone

behind. So fundamentally, for those of us who are lacking access, we need to think about ways in which we can get the vaccine closer.

I was really reassured to hear your story about Georgia, where community leaders and champions have realized that, look, we are starting from a low

base. We need to build the confidence of our communities.

But the tide is turning and there are different ways to turn that tide. How about taking the vaccine closer to the doorsteps, where trusted members of

the community can work with other members of our communities who haven't left their homes, by the way, probably for at least nine months because

they've been shielding.

It's not just a question of reluctance. We need to be talking about vaccine equity. Vaccine equity means that those groups who are less likely to

access services can find it easier to receive the services if we just take those services closer to them.

ASHER: You are right about certain people not having access and, of course, it would be great if, you know, people in the U.K., members of the

NHS, could go door to door. However, there are a lot of people, people who I know personally, who simply do not trust. We talked about this in the

previous package in reference to the United States.

But I am obviously from the U.K. A lot of people I know personally don't trust the vaccine and no matter what I say, no matter how much -- I could

talk until I'm blue in the face -- they are not necessarily going to be convinced by it.

So what do you do about that lack of trust?

Is there anything practical beyond just knocking from -- going door to door knocking to convince people these vaccines are safe?

BEGUM: There's more than door to door knocking. It's actually working with community partners and trusted sources of information to dispel any fears

around the permissibility (ph) of certain vaccines from a religious perspective and so on.

But if you don't engage with a crisis to build confidence -- and I think our communities, who have historically lacked trust won't really feel as if

we've got their back, will they. So we need to work harder to rebuild that confidence, to rebuild that trust.

You will know that, historically, some of our Black communities haven't really felt that the police here have their back, right?

So we're not necessarily going to suddenly build trust overnight. But building trust is going to take a bit longer.

But the fact is that the vaccine and the crisis that we face requires us to now rebuild our efforts to take the vaccine closer to the doors and maybe

think about building that trust back faster in some ways. Trust isn't completely broken. It's fragile. But it's not completely broken.

I do think that equity still is an issue. If we look at the latest data for the Muslim consensus for example, 70 percent of Muslims are saying either

they have already taken the vaccine or they will take the vaccine. So I think the tide is turning.

Now we're going to face an insurmountable (ph) distribution. And some of our scientists have said, two days ago, look, as we come out of this

pandemic, we're going to end up with a vaccine-rich constituency and a vaccine-poor constituency.

Who are the people that are going to be left behind?

Poorer communities and minority communities. So how about we think about more innovative ways to take up our clinics or mobile vaccination units to

their doors?

Once we can show it's safe, it's working, I think the majority of us (INAUDIBLE) reluctant will follow. We mustn't just stay with the rhetoric

around reluctance because we cannot afford to leave anyone behind.

ASHER: And just quickly, what about the argument that perhaps the NHS doesn't necessarily have the resources or enough vaccinators to actually

pull something like this off?

BEGUM: We do need to think about mitigating the risks. What we're not suggesting is that somehow everybody can administer a vaccine, not at all.

But the NHS works with community partners and suppliers so I think we can build up a community health response on the grassroots to help deliver the

vaccine.

I think the NHS would welcome support. It's not just about the NHS army (ph). It's actually about community health practitioners and also community

health practitioners with mosque leaders and youth leaders and so on that can just provide that wider network of trust building.

[10:40:00]

BEGUM: It only takes one GP but then seven or eight other community champions. That is enough (ph) we need to create a bit of an infrastructure

at the grassroots level to win over the confidence of our communities.

And it is important that we didn't just think about vaccinating elderly people. A lot of our minority communities live in overcrowded,

multigenerational households. What's the point of just vaccinating an elderly member of the household if you have two other generations under the

same roof?

You have to think about vaccinating entire families. And it is possible. It's not out of the means of, say, you know, a richly resourced (ph)

country like the U.S. or the U.K. If you look at their tried and tested methods from developing countries, where there's been a disaster, often the

GPs go to the front lines to help with the response.

I think we need to apply that approach in the U.K. where we actually have a better resourced health system.

(CROSSTALK)

ASHER: Halima, you bring up (INAUDIBLE) good points. Thank you so much for being on the program.

BEGUM: Thank you very much.

ASHER: Of course, you're very welcome.

Win, lose or draw?

Reactions to this head-turning fashion statement by Manchester City's manager run the gamut. Don Riddell will sort it out for us -- next.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ASHER: Pitch perfect or midfield misplay?

The football fashion police are out in force after the Manchester City manager debuted an eye-catching coat Wednesday night. Don Riddell is here

to tell us what's going on with Pep Guardiola's wardrobe.

(LAUGHTER)

DON RIDDELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am just trying to find the words, Zain. Pep Guardiola is known to be an incredibly fashionable man. He often sports

some pretty cool outfits on the touchline. But this one kind of backfired. The reaction on social media was not a good one.

People not particularly impressed with this kind of faded logo on the back of the coat. My favorite comment, though, drew attention to the coach. This

is a screen grab from the -- from a broadcaster.

And if you look at the coat sitting on the bench, the two zeros are over his eyes. It makes it look as though his eyes have popped out of his head

at this kind of ridiculous fashion statement.

But maybe it's because Man City just can't stop losing games. In fact, they are only winning them. Maybe it's supporting run and maybe this is what

Guardiola was doing to keep us all entertained in another way. But he is managing an incredible football team at the moment. And we'll talk about

that in "WORLD SPORT" coming up.

ASHER: Entertaining nonetheless. Thank you so much, Don.

"WORLD SPORT" is up next and I will be back at the top of the hour. Don't go away.

(WORLD SPORT)

[11:00:00]

END