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China Bears Responsibility for Uyghur Genocide; No Response from Buckingham Palace to Bombshell Interview; Meghan's Description of Racism No Surprise to Black Britons; Vaccinated Israelis Getting "Green Passes," More Freedom; Myanmar Media Stripped of Licenses. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired March 09, 2021 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI HOST: Tonight, genocide: a harrowing new report alleges that right now China is committing the most unspeakable of crimes,
something Beijing vehemently dismisses.
And a house in crisis. We are in Windsor as we wait for the palace to react to that interview.
Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have it on the phone but here you can see --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wonderful.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Get a vaccine, get more freedom. Details on Israel's green pass are just ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Hello and welcome. You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD, live from our Middle East broadcasting hub in Abu Dhabi. I'm Becky Anderson for you.
Not one, not some but every single provision in the United Nations' genocide convention violated by the Chinese government's treatment of
Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities in Xinjiang.
That's the conclusion of a scathing, first of its kind report from an independent group of human rights and legal experts, who base their
findings on public and leaked Chinese communications, witness testimony and satellite imagery.
They say as many as 2 million people have been forcibly detained, facing atrocities ranging from sexual assault to psychological torture to cultural
brainwashing and death.
The report concluding, "China's policies and practices targeting Uyghurs in the region must be viewed in their totality, which amounts to an intent to
destroy the Uyghurs as a group in whole or in part."
China's foreign ministry calls the allegations preposterous. CNN senior international correspondent Ivan Watson got an exclusive look at that
report before its release. Ivan has been following the plight of the Uyghurs and the Chinese denials of wrongdoing for years. He joins me
tonight from Hong Kong.
And I think it is important first, Ivan, if we can, to get across to our viewers just what constitutes genocide.
And what about this report provides evidence suggesting genocide against Uyghurs?
Walk us through it, if you will.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's very important, Becky. Important to note that the think tank in Washington,
D.C., that published this is the Newlines Institute for Strategy and Policy.
This is the first independent legal analysis of the allegations that Beijing's policies in Xinjiang amount to the definitions of genocide, as
laid out by the United Nations convention on genocide.
And what the report does, as you mentioned, it pulls on a lot of public sourced Chinese government documents and statements from senior Chinese
officials and reports by news organizations like CNN.
And it lists these state policies that it says allow the report to come to the conclusion, government policies, like government mandated home stays.
That is something promoted by Beijing heavily, where they sent more than 1 million Communist Party members to live in the homes of Uyghurs and other
minorities, whether they liked it or not.
Mass internment: the U.S. State Department accusing the Chinese authorities of rounding up, up to 2 million Uyghurs and other ethnic
minorities, into internment camps.
The mass birth prevention policy, forcible transfer of Uyghur children to state facilities, the eradication of Uyghur identity and the selective
targeting of intellectuals and community leaders.
And the report alleges that these policies help match all five definitions of genocide, according to the U.N. convention, which China signed onto, as
well as more than 150 other countries.
We tend to think of genocide as the Nazis putting Jews into gas chambers in concentration camps in World War II. But other definitions include, A,
killing members of the group; B, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; C, deliberately inflicting conditions of life,
calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part; D, imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group and, E,
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
[10:05:00]
WATSON: Now CNN has reported extensively on this, a lot of investigative work and, it's tough because you can't travel easily in Xinjiang and our
teams there have been harassed and followed by security forces when they've gone.
The Chinese government has denied any allegation of any human rights abuse whatsoever. It justifies its policies, saying it's eradicating terrorism
and alleviating poverty. And it absolutely rejects any suggestion that its policies amount to genocide. Take a listen to the foreign minister of
China.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANG YI, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): The claim that there is genocide in Xinjiang could not be more preposterous. It is just a
rumor, fabricated with ulterior motives and thorough lie. Over the past four decades and more, the Uyghur population of Xinjiang has more than
doubled from 5.5 million to over 12 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: This is often a number that Chinese officials cite.
They say the population grew in Xinjiang, how can it be genocide?
Over the last half century, look at the statistics, Becky. Over the last 10 years, published by the Chinese government, from 2017 to 2019, the birth
rate in Xinjiang sharply plummeted by half.
Part of that, the Xinjiang government told us, is because of their family planning policy, where they are offering sterilizations and contraceptive
devices.
But when you talk to survivors, they give a sharp and dark account, testimonies that they were forced to get sterilizations, forced to be
implanted with IUD devices. So two very different narratives. And this organization coming in to make very stark allegations against the Chinese
central government -- Becky.
ANDERSON: What seemed national support for accusing Beijing of genocide at this point?
WATSON: Yes, that's important. We know that, in the last days, literally the last day of the Trump administration, the former secretary of state,
Mike Pompeo, openly accused China of committing genocide in Xinjiang.
Now since then, the Biden administration and their new secretary of state, Antony Blinken, has said he agrees with Pompeo. But there hasn't been a
formal classification of this as genocide.
You have the parliaments of Canada and the Netherlands, have both passed nonbinding motions, accusing China of genocide. And this is important to
note, the leaders of those two countries both opposed those motions.
And that suggests how difficult this may be to try to bring this case against China, the world's second largest economy, a power that many
governments simply won't want to mess with. And China has been issuing warnings that it simply will not accept this kind of criticism of its
policy in Xinjiang -- Becky.
WATSON: Ivan Watson is in Hong Kong. Ivan, thank you.
You can read a lot more about the report, the plight of the Uyghurs and why China is calling this the lie of the century on our website. That is
cnn.com for that. Ahead on the show, I'll talk to the principal author of the report, human rights lawyer Yonah Diamond, and one of its researchers,
Irwin Cotler. So please stay with us for that.
The silence from Buckingham Palace has become almost deafening following an interview by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. It's been nearly two days and
still no response to what are some pretty shocking allegations of racism and emotional abuse within the monarchy.
Prince Harry and Meghan's explosive interview aired in the U.K. for the first time last night. And it seems many Britons aren't happy with the
couple.
According to YouGov polling, 47 percent of those polled in the U.K. believe the interview was inappropriate. Meanwhile, just 20 percent of Americans
believe the same. While the palace remains silent, the British tabloids can't keep quiet. Let's bring in Max Foster and Salma Abdelaziz, both live
from Windsor.
This interview going out Sunday in the U.S.
Max, let's start with you. It went out Monday in the U.K. The royal interview watched by 12.4 million viewers on British broadcaster ITV. That
is half of those who were watching television in the U.K. at the time. So just walk us through what the reaction has been.
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, lots of people watched it and people are taking their views. And it's become very, very
divisive. Also a lot of bewilderment at the fact the palace still haven't issued any sort of statement today.
We saw Prince Charles out and about, carrying on with his diary arrangements. He's not answering questions about the interview.
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FOSTER: And I think the feeling I'm getting from the palace frankly is that they don't want to be rushed into coming up with a statement. They
don't want to be pressured by the media, the tabloids. But the media just aren't letting up, Becky.
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FOSTER (voice-over): This morning, the royal family in crisis. That, according to the British tabloids, with headlines like "So Sad It's Come to
This," "Worst Royal Crisis in 85 Years" and "Palace in turmoil over Meghan's racism claims."
OPRAH WINFREY, ACTOR AND ACTIVIST: Did you leave the country because of racism?
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: It was a large part of it.
FOSTER (voice-over): The Duchess of Sussex's estranged father, Thomas Markle, dismissing his daughter's allegations of racism, saying in a
television interview this morning, he does not think the royal family is racist.
THOMAS MARKLE, MEGHAN'S FATHER: I don't think the British royal family are racists at all. I don't think the British are racist.
FOSTER (voice-over): As the fallout continues after Prince Harry and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, level bombshell accusations against two of
Britain's most recognized institutions, the royal family and the press.
A deluge of stories focused on Meghan revealing she has had thoughts of suicide and the allegations of dysfunction and racism in the palace.
MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: I just didn't want to be alive anymore. And that was a very clear and real and frightening constant thought.
FOSTER (voice-over): One paper calls the interview self-serving. Another, nicknames the couple's rift with the royal family, "Megxile."
While American outlets often appeared somewhat sympathetic, some U.K. tabloids seem to be venting their anger.
And on television, reactions ranged from shock to dismay.
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PIERS MORGAN, "GOOD MORNING BRITAIN" ANCHOR: This is a two-hour trashathon of our royal family, of the monarchy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER (voice-over): Many rushing to the couple's defense, calling out the U.K. tabloids, including Hillary Clinton.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The fact she did not get more support, that the reaction was, you know, let's just paper it over and
pretend that it didn't happen or it will go away, just keep your head down, well, you know, this young woman was not about to keep her head down.
FOSTER (voice-over): The U.S. largely more empathetic, with even a show of support from the White House.
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: For anyone to come forward and speak about their own struggles with mental health and tell their own
personal story, that takes courage. That's certainly something the president believes.
FOSTER (voice-over): But the insidious undercurrent of racism, perhaps the most damning claim in the most explosive interview to rock the royal family
since his mother's interview with Martin Bashir.
PRINCE HARRY: What I was seeing was history repeating itself or more perhaps -- or definitely far more dangerous, because then you add race in.
FOSTER (voice-over): One of the most jaw-dropping accounts in the raw, emotional interview with Oprah Winfrey, that unnamed members of the royal
family were worried about the skin color that Harry and Meghan's son. The couple saying, had they only felt they had the family's support, they would
have gladly stayed.
The very tabloids that Harry and Meghan say drove their mental health to the brink, swift to get the splashy headlines. The "Daily Mail," "Harry
Twists the Knife" and, "What Have They Done?"
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: There's a brand here. It's the royal brand. It's monarchy.
Has it been undermined by this?
I mean, brands are values.
What does it say about the values of equality, of mental health?
Accusations of hypocrisy right now, Becky. If they campaign on mental health and they can't be seen to be not caring for the duchess' mental
health, there are lots of issues here. They do ultimately have to be addressed by the royal family.
But does it come in the form of a statement or messaging or optics?
That's what they're considering. But we're still waiting for that statement.
ANDERSON: Yes, and, while we do, one of the papers, that you referenced in that report, headlining, "Is this the worst royal crisis in 75 years?"
Max, is this a constitutional crisis?
FOSTER: Well, you know, the monarchy is the queen and they're not attacking the queen. They're actually being -- praising the queen. It's
Prince Charles probably comes out worse from this.
In terms of an attack on the monarchy, perhaps it is the next stage in monarchy that looks more vulnerable than the current one. So it's not an
entire attack on the entire monarchy; there's elements of it that are certainly suffering.
ANDERSON: Thanks, Max.
Salma, you have been researching just how Black Britons have reacted to Meghan's claims of racism.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: That's right, Becky. It's a very, very divided reaction here in the U.K. And a lot of it comes down to who you are
and how you identify, what is your class, your socioeconomic status, your race.
[10:15:00]
ABDELAZIZ: And whether or not that lived experience that Meghan Markle describes in that two-hour interview resonates with you, whether it rings
true to the life you live on the streets, even though she lived in a palace.
And that's where the issue lies. Meghan Markle is the first modern royal of color. She's the only biracial member of the royal family.
Only she can speak to what it is like to enter that elite, all-white institution and experience those feelings of marginalization, of exclusion,
of being afraid, of being alone and isolated. Only she can speak to that experience beyond the specific allegations and accusations of racism that
you -- that she has in that interview.
Now you hear the couple there. They do not name anybody specifically. And a lot of Black Britons look to that. They look to that because it is tapping
into the global anti-racism movement, into the Black Lives Matter movement, that swept across London last year after George Floyd's death.
Meghan and Harry are essentially saying, this is not about our individual struggle. This is about systemic racism in Britain, not just in the
monarchy but in the press, in the media, the colonial systems that still remain in this country and whether or not they fit a modern Britain.
When Meghan Markle entered the royal family, she brought that diversity. She brought with it an expectation of change, not just for Black Britons
but for the commonwealth, 54 nations, many located in Africa and the Caribbean, former colonies.
They looked to her entry and expected that her diversity would naturally come with change. But you're looking at a monarchy that prides itself on
remaining unchanged, no matter what. They hold to those traditions, those centuries-old traditions.
If the palace responds, that's what minorities in Britain will be looking for.
How will the palace adopt to Britain today?
Will they change, move with the times, listen to these social justice movements or remain entrenched in the past -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Salma, Max, thank you.
I was struck by a tweet by Lionel Barber on this, the former editor of the "FT."
Said, "Harry and Meghan's transition from royal celebrities to celebrity royals is not a constitutional crisis, whatever they or the media (on both
sides of the Atlantic) may claim."
Just one point of view there. Thank you both.
We now have a new way for you to stay up to date with the British royal family. CNN has just launched our own royal newsletter. Just log on to
cnn.com/royalnews to sign up.
Israelis are seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. We'll look at the easing of restrictions after the super speedy COVID vaccination program and
what they did right.
Plus new news to keep Myanmar's independent media from covering anti-coup protests. I'll be speaking with a journalist whose company was raided by
the military. That is just a little later.
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ANDERSON: Israelis getting a taste of post-COVID freedom. About 40 percent of the country has been vaccinated and the government says that is good
enough to start easing some coronavirus restrictions.
Israel is issuing vaccinated citizens with a so-called green passport, which allows them to go to concerts, to gyms and to indoor dining. To
sweeten the pot, Israelis will also be able to travel in and out of the country again on a limited basis.
Sam Kiley connecting us with Israelis celebrating this new, quote, "passport" and all that comes with it, joining me now from Jerusalem --
Sam.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, it has been a remarkable series of events or at least, beginning on Sunday, a
lifting of the pressure cooker, really, that Israelis, as many other nations around the world, have dealt with, a year of isolation, social
isolation.
Thanks to these new vaccine certificates that mean that people who have had both jabs can actually now start going to pubs, clubs, they can even start
thinking about going to hotels and having maybe an internal vacation. This is what it looked like as it rolled out on Sunday.
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KILEY (voice-over): An hour before reopening, Israeli celebrity chef, Assaf Granit, is onsite for the renaissance of the kitchen at the center of
his restaurant empire.
ASSAF GRANIT, CELEBRITY CHEF: It's like a re-branding. It's like opening all over again. Let's see it's going to -- I think lunch will be, slowly,
picking up. And then they're already booked. So it will be a long and happy day.
KILEY: It is not surprising really that there's a party atmosphere her in Machneyuda. It's perhaps the most famous restaurant in the city, famous for
its high energy music, high energy food, high energy chef.
But also, it's going to be working at 75 percent capacity. Patrons have to be 6 feet -- 2 meters -- apart. That is going to be policed and vigilated
by an extra member of staff.
And this is all going to be a result of the introduction of the Israeli green passports, the vaccinations certificates, that means that, slowly, at
least, this economy could start to recover.
KILEY (voice-over): First in line, 30 minutes ahead of their booking, a couple from Tel Aviv, proud of their vaccine passes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have it on the phone, but here, you can see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wonderful.
KILEY: Why are you so excited?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a year?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- after a year.
KILEY (voice-over): Forty percent of Israelis have had both vaccine shots and can now enjoy new freedoms to attend concerts, hotels, restaurants,
bars, even universities, with some limits on total numbers. But the fears of another lockdown loom over even the most optimistic. Renewed
restrictions would be ruinous.
About 5 million Israelis have had a first dose of the vaccine, a world leading level of take-up, even though ultra orthodox Jews and Israeli Arabs
are lagging behind. It's an achievement that prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud Party will trumpet in the couple of weeks remaining
before elections here.
KILEY: How does it feel to be opening?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little scary and very exciting.
KILEY: Why is it scary?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, opening up, getting customers again, it's been a year.
KILEY (voice-over): He's screening customers for vaccine certificates.
KILEY: What if people don't have it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then they can sit outside.
KILEY: Not a bad option. After all, spring is in the air.
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KILEY: Now Becky, the -- as you were saying there, the airport is going to start admitting more Israelis coming back in. That, in large part, is a
result not only of the vaccine campaign allowing it but also because they want to get as many Israelis back into the country ahead of the March 23rd
election so they can vote.
Every vote here counts, as you well know, in an election.
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely, March 23rd, the Israeli election.
After receiving criticism for not extending its vaccination campaign to Palestinians working in Israel or West Bank settlements, Israel finally
did, Sam.
Where does that process stand at present?
KILEY: It's just about to be getting off the ground, we understand. There have been some hitches. This is essentially in light of self-interest of
being displayed by the Israelis. The Palestinian workers work inside Israel or they work in the Jewish settlements on the West Bank, therefore, come
into contact, physical contact with Israelis.
If they're not vaccinated, they will be a perpetual source potentially of the COVID infection. The 4.5 million other Palestinians are still right at
the beginning of a vaccination campaign being run by the Palestinian Authority, with donations from where you are, in the United Arab Emirates,
and elsewhere, to try and get them off the ground.
[10:25:00]
KILEY: But that has been extremely sluggish. A lot of criticism from a human rights group and U.N. panels of experts, saying that ultimately,
because it's occupied territory, they argue, the Israelis should have been behind the Palestinian vaccination program as well.
There is also, according to the local media, a restarting of Benjamin Netanyahu's recently stalled vaccination diplomacy, where he's been
planning to try to send nominal levels of doses around the world to countries that have been highly sympathetic to -- particularly to his
government in Israel, Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Sam, thank you.
On our radar right now, we are tracking a significant amount of diplomatic traffic around this region. Jordan's King Abdullah has wrapped up his
overnight visit to Saudi Arabia. The Saudi press agency says he flew home a few hours ago after meetings with crown prince Mohammed bin Salman.
The agency says the two leaders discussed joint cooperation in a variety of fields.
The UAE's foreign minister says U.S. sanctions on Syria are complicating the return of the Arab country to the Arab fold. The comments coming during
a news conference with Russia's top diplomat a short time ago here in Abu Dhabi. The UAE is the first stop on Sergey Lavrov's Middle East tour. He's
also set to visit Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
In the U.S.-brokered peace talks for Afghanistan, the U.S. announcing its special envoy to Afghanistan will be based in Doha in Qatar for some time,
in hopes of pushing the process forward. On Monday, the White House proposed an interim power sharing agreement between the Afghan government
and the Taliban.
An awful lot going on, on the diplomatic front in this region. Do watch this space.
You are watching CONNECT THE WORLD, live with me, Becky Anderson, from our Middle East broadcasting hub here in Abu Dhabi.
Up next --
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ANDERSON (voice-over): As protests continue, the leaders of Myanmar's coup are trying to control the narrative. I'll be talking to the co-founder of a
media company raided by the military. That is just ahead.
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ANDERSON: A Myanmar human rights group says another official from the ousted leader, Aung San Suu Kyi's, party has died in custody. This comes as
the country's military crackdown expands to include five independent media companies reporting on the anti-coup protests.
According to state-run TV, they have now been stripped of their publication licenses.
[10:30:00]
ANDERSON: Myanmar's civilian leadership were ousted in a military coup almost six weeks ago and police continue to spar with protesters, at one
point trapping hundreds of people behind barricades during an overnight standoff. CNN's Paula Hancocks connecting us to the very latest move by the
military there.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, we have seen the Myanmar military leadership trying to control the narrative from the beginning,
from just after that February 1st coup.
They have been trying to bring in a cybersecurity law. They have been amending laws to make sure that the people don't criticize the military and
curbing freedom of expression, freedom of speech and freedom of the press. They've gone one further now. Five
independent media outlets have been stripped of their licenses and the military says that they are no longer able to operate. But what we have
heard, we've spoken to two of them, and they said they will continue to operate and they will find a way of making sure that their news is still
published.
One in particular going on YouTube, making sure the images of what is happening inside Myanmar are seen and known about.
Now we do know that journalists have been targeted in the past. Many have been arrested. So certainly these media outlets are now very concerned for
the safety of their journalists but say they will continue to operate.
Now one other thing we did see overnight was images and footage of the military, storming the Mandalay Technological University. This is something
we've been hearing about since last weekend, that hospitals and universities have started to be occupied by the military.
Now we did hear from the U.N. They said they'd heard at least five hospitals have been occupied while they didn't specify that it was the
military that is occupying them. But they did point out that they are protected under international humanitarian law and should not be occupied
in any shape or form.
The military from their point of view is saying they are, quote, "maintaining them," claiming the doctors and nurses are part of the protest
movement and they have to maintain these particular locations.
And one more thing to point out, Becky, because this is -- appears to be a new tactic that's been tried and used by the security forces, overnight,
hundreds of protesters were cornered in one particular neighborhood in Yangon.
And the police have threatened, according to local media and Reuters, that they were going to go house to house and find anyone who did not come from
that district and arrest them.
There have been reports of dozens of arrests, which we are seeking to confirm at this point, but it did -- it was an event that sparked some
international condemnations. The U.S., the U.K. and U.N. all said this particular event had to change, had to end and protesters should be allowed
to go home.
Eventually in the early hours of the morning, the police did leave and many protesters were able to go home. But this is a new tactic we are seeing by
security forces and a new worrying tactic -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Paula Hancocks reporting.
I want to bring in a guest we had on this show about a week or so back, journalist Thin Lei Win. The media company she cofounded was raided in
Yangon. She's in contact with former colleagues and others on the ground by secure means and joins us from Rome.
I'm sorry we have to have you on again. I would have hoped since last week that things would have improved but, of course, they haven't. This is the
first time officials of a media outlet have been targeted since the coup in early February.
What have you been hearing from those that you are in touch with on the ground?
THIN LEI WIN, JOURNALIST: Yes, Becky, so, you know, they have always been targeting journalists. The junta has never liked independent-minded media.
But things have escalated quite considerably in the last day or two.
So like you -- like your colleague, Paula, was saying, five media outlets were told their licenses have been revoked and then, yesterday afternoon or
Monday afternoon, Myanmar time, they raided the offices of Myanmar Now, which is the news agency.
I found out what they did was seized computers, seized printers and parts of the new data server as well. Thankfully, nobody was in the office.
Nobody has been in there since the coup. So all they did was to take away the -- some of the equipment.
Obviously, it was done in a very public manner. Witnesses saw the security forces sort of storming the building where the office was. And there was
this show of force that perhaps was trying to send a message.
And we also know that today they have done the same to two other independent media and, unfortunately, they also arrested co-founder and
editor-in-chief of one of the media that they -- that they raided today.
[10:35:00]
ANDERSON: The paper's editor-in-chief spoke out and said, "We are now at a point where continuing to do our jobs means risking being jailed or killed.
What is certain is that we will not stop covering the enormous crimes the regime has been committing throughout the country."
And do those words reflect what you are hearing from those that you are in touch with?
THIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. It has raised the stakes further for journalists, you know. Journalism has always been a dangerous profession
regardless. In Myanmar it's been even more dangerous. But now it is -- the stakes are even higher.
But pretty much every journalist I've spoken to, they have absolutely no intention of stopping reporting. In some ways, these events have made them
even more determined to highlight what's going on because the junta wants the world to forget about what's happening in Myanmar and for the
international media like yourself, like CNN, not to report about what's happening anymore.
And that's why they are targeting journalists. And local journalists I've been speaking to are determined for that not to happen.
ANDERSON: The offices of Myanmar now were raided, as you rightly pointed out. Staff publishing a scathing op-ed, entitled, "The Tatmadaw has turned
into a terrorist organization."
And I just want our viewers to hear a quote from that piece.
"Increasingly, it is becoming impossible to believe that the junta is motivated by anything other than contempt for the country's people."
How concerned are you about Myanmar's freedom of speech moving forward?
And, you know, the wider question here is how concerned are you about the people of Myanmar going forward and their security?
THIN: Very -- I mean, I'm sort of speechless because I'm actually trying to find a word that I can express to say how concerned I am. And I just
can't find the right words.
Just because we've seen the forces have stormed hospitals, universities; last night we saw a video clip of security forces, walking down a street in
Yangon, screaming at people, particularly a woman, using derogatory words, telling them they're going to shoot them and hurt them.
And it is just multiple levels of concern and horrors that people are now living through. And I really, really fear things are going to get worse
before it gets better.
ANDERSON: As this is going on, so journalists on the ground are continuing to do their jobs, albeit perhaps not publishing as freely, and I use that
term loosely, as they would want to.
I know colleagues of yours have been doing a lot of investigations, for example, into the military's commercial interests, going so far as to hire
a Canadian-based lobbying firm to provide PR services.
Can you just explain what you know about that work?
THIN: You mean the investigative work that Myanmar Now and other journalists are doing?
ANDERSON: Correct.
THIN: Yes, so essentially, you know, the military has a vast network of economic holdings. And the commander in chief, who is the coup leader, you
know, oversees -- there's at least two big military holding companies that have a massive, massive network of, you know, businesses, from tourism to
jade mining to everything that you can think of, hospitality sector, entertainment.
And some of the investigations that my former colleagues in Myanmar Now has been doing has actually been really looking into what the family of the
current coup leader, you know, what they are doing.
For example, some of the restaurants or shops that the family owns are paying low to very little rent. Or the fact that some of their family
holdings -- companies have special treatment from when it comes to tenders and things like that.
Those were some of the stories they've been publishing over the course of 2019. And we have seen an escalation of the attacks towards independent
media, particularly Myanmar Now, throughout their time as well.
In fact, you know, my former worker, who now runs Myanmar Now, had to leave the country because there was an attempt on his life. And I think that sort
of gives you an idea of the kind of thing that the military does not want published.
[10:40:00]
ANDERSON: Thank you. Thin is out of Rome for you today. As we say, speaking to colleagues on the ground, another -- other journalists through
secure means.
We're going to be right back.
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[11:00:00]
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