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Uyghur Families Desperate to Reunite; Massive Ship Stuck in Suez Canal; E.U. Proposes Tighter COVID-19 Vaccine Export Controls; Vaccine Rollouts along the Irish Border; Interview with MEP Manfred Weber on European Vaccine Program. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired March 25, 2021 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: torn apart by oppression, a heartbreaking story about parents desperate to reunite with their lost
children.
I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD. CNN is off the air in China right now or about to be taken off the air.
The reason?
An exclusive report the rest of the world is about to see. It's about the lost children of Xinjiang. They tell you what to expect in that report in
just a moment.
Before that, the fallout over what's happening in Xinjiang from both inside and outside China. As criticism grows, global brands Nike and H&M now face
boycotts in China for their statements of concern over the unethical use of labor in the region. We'll have more on that a little later on CONNECT THE
WORLD.
We begin with that CNN exclusive report. Children torn from their families and kept from leaving China's Xinjiang region, their parents desperate for
answers, turning to CNN for help, tracking down their loved ones in a new and heartbreaking report.
Amnesty International estimates China's policies towards ethnic Uyghur Muslims have split up thousands of families. The U.S. and other countries
have labeled China's treatment of Uyghurs as genocide. China denies the human rights abuse allegations, claiming their actions are justified to
combat religious extremism and prevent terrorism.
But in this exclusive report, CNN's David Culver, senior producer Steven Jiang and photojournalist Justin Robertson traveled to the heavily
surveilled region. With the parents' permission, they went in search of the lost children of Xinjiang.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Followed by a convoy of suspected undercover Chinese police vehicles --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tail is still on us.
CULVER (voice-over): -- mimicking our every turn through China's far Western Xinjiang region.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they want to know where we're going.
CULVER (voice-over): -- blocking roads that lead to possible internment camps and keeping us from getting too close to so-called sensitive sites.
How we ended up on this journey had less to do about us and more about who we were looking for. CNN searching for the lost Uyghur children of
Xinjiang, a region in which several countries, including the U.S., alleged China is committing genocide against the ethnic Uyghur Muslim minority.
Thousands of families have been ripped apart through China's actions. We tracked down two of them.
Now in Adelaide, Australia, Mamutjan Abdurehim constantly replays the only recent videos he has of his daughter and son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daddy.
CULVER (voice-over): He has not held his wife or their children in more than 5 years. He is among thousands of families from Xinjiang who have been
torn apart, according to a Amnesty International report.
MAMUTJAN ABDUREHIM, FATHER OF CHILDREN IN XINJIANG: April on 17th, the mass internment started then. And I was one of the first people detained.
My wife was detained, too.
CULVER (voice-over): Before they were separated Mamutjan was studying for a PhD in Kuala Lumpur. His wife was studying English there.
ABDUREHIM: We were happy as a family, it was a good old days.
CULVER (voice-over): But his wife lost her passport while in Malaysia. Chinese officials told her that she had to go back to Xinjiang to renew.
She brought the couple's 2 young children with her, thinking they would soon be able to travel back.
But that was late 2015. Amnesty says the forced separation of families allows China to control the narrative, keeping something precious to
dissuade their loved ones outside the country from bad-mouthing China.
Chinese officials have repeatedly pushed back against claims of genocide in Xinjiang. the foreign minister recently calling it preposterous.
WANG YI, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We welcome more people from around the world to visit Xinjiang. Seeing is believing. It is
the best way to debunk rumors.
CULVER (voice-over): So we decided to try to find the missing children ourselves. With permission from their parents, the 5 plus hour flight from
Beijing ended with a strange requests from the cabin crew. As we approached Kashgar's airport to land, all window shades had to be shut, no explanation
why.
We went through a standard COVID test for all arriving passengers, loaded up a rental car and roamed without anyone stopping us. Though, like much of
China, you're always watched. You immediately encounter the vibrant, richly diverse culture of this region but faces also different.
Perhaps not what you'd expect in China.
[10:05:00]
CULVER (voice-over): From the grand bazaar to the central mosque, we stroll through the reconstructed old town. It's here we began to notice,
people trailing us.
CULVER: There are usually individual men on phones, keeping a social distance, shall we say.
CULVER (voice-over): But it seemed they wanted to know who we were searching for. This video of Mamutjan's little girl was a critical clue for
us. We matched the alleyways of old Kashgar with a backdrop in the video, the first day, no luck.
CULVER: Another dead end, this might be it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's try this.
CULVER (voice-over): Twenty-four hours and 20,000 steps later, we weaved our way through one last corridor and suddenly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know this man, is he your father?
CULVER (voice-over): The daughter and her grandparents, Mamutjan's mom and dad, were not expecting us but they let us into their home.
Muhlise told me she is going to turn 11 in May but amidst her innocence an awareness not to say too much. She told us she had not spoken to her father
since 2017.
STEVEN JIANG, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER, BEIJING BUREAU: Their passports were confiscated.
When we asked her.
CULVER: What would you want to say to him if you could talk to him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).
CULVER (voice-over): "I miss him," she later told me.
CULVER: Can you tell me some of what you're feeling?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).
CULVER (voice-over): "I don't have my mom with me right now, I don't have my dad, either. I just want to be reunited with them," she told me.
Off camera, her grandmother, overcome by grief.
As I asked about her mother and if she had been sent to a camp?
CULVER: How long was she away for?
CULVER (voice-over): She quickly bolted to her grandfather, translating our question from Chinese to Uyghur for them. Camps are too sensitive a
topic to discuss. As they talked, notice the sudden murmurs in the background. It seemed word of our visit had gotten to officials and back to
the family, bringing an abrupt end to our visit.
CULVER: She wants the family together. She didn't want to say they want to go abroad.
CULVER (voice-over): But we still wanted to know where Mamutjan's wife and son were. The family said they've been living with her family nearby.
CULVER: It's locked from the outside, so unless they're gone for the day or gone permanently.
CULVER (voice-over): We asked the Chinese government if the wife is currently in a camp. They have not gotten back to us.
While on the ground in Xinjiang, there was a second set of children we wanted to track down. Their parents are in Italy.
MAMTININ ABLIKIM, FATHER OF TRAPPED CHILDREN (through translator): My children thought that we abandoned them, that we don't care about them.
CULVER (voice-over): After having five children and getting pregnant with a sixth, they say authorities wanted to force their mother to have an
abortion and throw the father in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The policies were too strict, it was impossible to take on all of our children together with us. So we left
our homeland and our children in desperation.
CULVER (voice-over): The older children, now aged between 12 and 16, were left behind with their grandparents. They hoped the separation would be
temporary until they could secure more visas.
But they went nearly 4 years unable to contract their children. They got word that family members were being rounded up and being sent to camps.
Determined to reunite the family, their cousin in Canada choreographed their escape attempt from half a world away. Their parents had finally
secured visa approvals from Italy for their children. In June 2020, Arafat managed to communicate to the kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is your only shot. If you just stay, your life is going to be staying there, nothing we can do.
CULVER (voice-over): On their, own they traveled more than 3,000 miles, father than from L.A. to New York, recovering hidden passports, eventually
flying into Shanghai.
CULVER: When the children arrived here in Shanghai, they were excited and happy. They never thought they would make it this far.
CULVER (voice-over): But their repeated attempts to obtain their visas failed. Arafat also says multiple hotels turned the kids away because they
are Uyghur. They finally found a place willing to take them in. All the while they dropped geolocation pins for Arafat to know that they were OK.
The last pin dropped on June 24th, a few blocks from the hotel.
CULVER: Do you know who these children are ?
Have you seen before?
CULVER (voice-over): Arafat in Canada watched. Then silence, minutes to hours, to days, to weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then I tell my aunts, they might be detained. They start crying like -- they cannot believe it.
CULVER (voice-over): After several phone -- calls he learned that police had tracked them down. China's giant surveillance network zeroing in on the
4 children. Arafat later found out they've been sent back to Xinjiang and thrown into an orphanage.
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CULVER (voice-over): In Rome, the parents heard the devastating news of their children's detention, as they begged for help outside of Italy's
ministry of foreign affairs office. The Italian government refused to comment to CNN on what happened. China has also not responded to requests
for comment on the two families' cases.
Having found Muhlise for her father, we hoped to find the other children to bring their parents some comfort. We headed out before sunrise, leaving
Kashgar for the hour or so drive to get to the orphanage where they were sent.
That's the eldest boy, standing in front of the building a month ago. As we drove, we watched as one car after another trailed us. After making a pass
by the orphanage, we headed to one of the kids' schools where we asked to see the kids. Eventually, local officials showed up and asked for about 30
minutes to get back to us.
CULVER: That was more than 2 hours ago but they've yet to let us talk to the children.
CULVER (voice-over): We later made contact through video chat.
CULVER: Do you want to be with them?
Do you miss them?
CULVER (voice-over): "I do," he says. He answered quickly and kept looking off camera. Someone was directing him to answer.
"Tell them that you see your sister every day," the voice said.
CULVER: He's been coached.
Can you tell us about your journey, trying to reunite with your parents last year?
CULVER (voice-over): When we asked about the Shanghai escape attempt, he deflected. Much like Muhlise, here was another child, clearly aware that
the way they speak and what they say could impact those they love. After about eight minutes we ended the call.
CULVER: They are literally right over there and we can't see them.
CULVER (voice-over): We later learned that three children were interrogated about our conversation, despite the pressure that the children
face every day, late last month they even risked sending out a photo message to their parents.
The 4 of them, lined up holding a sign in Chinese, saying, Dad, Mom, we miss you. A rare glimpse of an uncensored truth.
With each passing hour of our being on the ground in Xinjiang, it's seen the number of likely security agents trailing us increased, adding pressure
to our search. Before leaving, we reconnected with Mamutjan, who was hungry for any information on his wife and kids and desperate to see his little
girl.
We watched him as he watched her.
ABDUREHIM: That's my mother.
CULVER: Do you know this man?
Is he your father?
Your dad?
We've been talking to him.
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUREHIM: That's my daughter. They got so old. I haven't seen them in 4 years.
CULVER (voice-over): It's part relief seeing that she's OK, even proud that she still wants to be a doctor.
CULVER: What would you want to say to him if you could talk to him?
CULVER (voice-over): But to see her break down, sending her love to her father, no dad, no matter how strong, can hide that agony for long.
ABDUREHIM: Poor thing.
What kind of country does this to people?
To innocent people?
She must definitely miss me, too.
CULVER: She clearly, your little girl, is hurting but she loves your lot. And that came across right away.
ABDUREHIM: It is terrible. It's a terrible situation, I cannot even describe my feelings right now. I will try to bring them here in Australia,
I will try my best, I will do everything I can.
CULVER (voice-over): Beneath that relentless determination, an inconsolable grief for years lost and a hope for families to be whole once
more.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER: Becky, no question this was a heartbreaking and heavy assignment to be part of but, nonetheless, an important story to tell. With regard to
where the children are now and how they are doing, one thing we can say is that, at least for the four children, it was a very difficult few days that
followed our reporting on the ground there.
And that's because we've learned from their family that they went through hours upon hours of interrogation, Chinese officials bringing to them our
cnn.com digital report first to show them, even the photo of them holding up the sign to their mom and dad, that said "Dad, Mom, we miss you,"
questioning why they did that.
As far as Muhlise is concerned, she's now been featured in a government propaganda video, part of their state-run media. That came out earlier this
week. It showed her living a seemingly happy and content life.
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CULVER: Telling the state media reporter that her life is happy in Xinjiang and that she wants her dad to come from Australia to be reunited
with the family in Xinjiang.
Now one thing that was interesting about that state media report, Becky, is that it included a bit more detail about her mother. You saw in that piece
we made the attempt to track down her mom.
Well, according to state media, her mom has been charged with a crime and that crime is inciting ethnic hatred. That's how they've labeled it.
However, they did not indicate where exactly she is. So it's still no clue as to her location as of now, Becky.
ANDERSON: David Culver from Beijing for you.
CNN's senior producer Steven Jiang part of that CNN team in Xinjiang, joining me now from Beijing.
Some incredible access, Steven. And we do applaud you for the reporting. You mentioned earlier the potential boycott of global brands in China over
their criticism, Beijing's human rights violations in the region.
What more do we know at this point?
JIANG: Becky, thank you. Incredible access but not easy access. But in terms of this list of potential boycott targets here in China, that list
keeps growing.
And now state media has linked almost 30 major Western brands to this organization which triggered this whole saga because member companies
expressing concerns over alleged forced labor in Xinjiang.
Now we've seen an increasing number of Chinese celebrities, very publicly severing ties with companies from H&M to Nike and now Adidas. We've also
seen announced store closures, signs and logos of these companies being removed and also major e-commerce platforms reforming all of H&M products,
for example, from their online stores, even some map software removing H&M from searches.
All of these reactions have been very swift and some would say over the top. Some of these companies have responded, saying they were simply trying
to work with their suppliers to identify and assess potential forced labor risks in the region. They have always respected China's consumers.
But statements like this really has failed to placate and satisfy the Chinese government as well as many Chinese consumers, who really see this
as another Western concocted lie in that smearing China's image.
So that's why, you know, even though the government has been very hard trying to paint this as a spontaneous movement, the timing of this is also
not coincidental. One of the earliest online posts, quote-unquote, exposing H&M, for example, came from the Communist Party's youth organization.
So many see this as a state orchestrated campaign, sending a very strong message to Western companies and Western governments that they will pay a
dear price if you run afoul of the Chinese authorities.
ANDERSON: Steven Jiang, thank you.
A lot more on this ahead. Next hour I'll talk with U.S. Congressman Tom Malinowski. He says human rights to be a cornerstone of America's foreign
policy.
And also during the show, we'll look at the crisis in Yemen, now in its sixth year of civil war. We'll talk with David Miliband of the
International Rescue Committee about Saudi Arabia's proposal to end the conflict. All of that coming up in about an hour's time.
Well, the experts tell CNN the Ever Given is going nowhere fast. We'll talk about the ship that's brought one of the world's most important waterways
to a grinding halt.
Plus, the European Union seeks to protect its vaccine supply. The proposals it's making to expand export controls and end a fight with the U.K.
And royal watchers were stunned by allegations made by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex live in Britain's monarchy. Now they've found in major
contradictions in the tell-all interview. That is next this hour.
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ANDERSON: Built by empires, forged by time, this is a moment in history captured not on tape but canvas, the opening of the Suez Canal on November
17th, 1869. And ever since, not only has trade flowed through it but history through it itself.
And so it is today, as iconic to Egypt as the pyramids and still today known as the artery of life there.
So imagine being the captain of this ship, that's got the whole place logjammed. And adding insult to injury, it could be weeks until it is open
again. One of the companies looking to shake free this massive container ship says it could take weeks to dislodge it. They can't get over how
colossal this is.
Look at one of the diggers trying to get it free. Looks like a toy next to that ship. That's almost as long as the Empire State Building is tall.
That's a lot to take in.
I want to show you this briefly. All those dots, ships stuck at sea. Every year, more than 10 percent of all global trade goes through this canal.
That is how important the artery of life is.
In the meantime, dozens of cargo ships vital to international commerce are stranded. We're covering the angles for you with Ben Wedeman in Beirut and
John Defterios in Abu Dhabi.
And let's start with you, John. There seems to be a lot more evidence surfacing out of the Suez Canal about what is going on. None of it seems
positive.
What do we know at this point?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, it's interesting you say that because, 24 hours ago, a lot of third party speculators coming in,
saying this will unfold there in the Suez and, better than 48 hours in, much more concrete evidence and none of it is really positive. We can put
it that way.
The Suez Canal Authority has now officially closed off traffic going into the canal, not too surprisingly because of the backlog we're starting to
see. And it did announce there are two outside salvage companies coming in.
One, the CEO Poscalas (ph) is one that shaked (sic) up everybody down in Egypt because they said it could take days or weeks, weeks if you have to
physically unload the 20,000 containers that sit on the Ever Given. That would be a massive task.
They also said we'll bring in other partners, a sister company, Schmitt (ph). Some officials already on the ground and Nippon Salvage of Japan,
because the ship is owned by the Japanese.
We know there was another company involved here, trying to salvage it. They made another attempt today. The group is called BSM, Bernard Schulte (ph)
Management. They wanted to go with the combination of tugging with eight tugs and then digging.
As you suggested in the opening remarks there and the photo, you have that one digger standing up against the Ever Given, it was just outmanned. I
think the point today is -- and this is clear that you're going to have to bring in the big guns to solve this.
And Poscalas (ph) and Schmitt (ph) worked on the Costa Concordia in 2012, the cruise liner that went aground at sea in Italy and they solved it. So
they're going international to bring down the best to the Suez.
ANDERSON: Yes, because, of course, this is -- you cannot overstate the importance of this waterway.
[10:25:00]
ANDERSON: The term canal to a certain extent understates it.
Ben, a hugely important waterway.
Just what sort of impact could this, might this have on global trade?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a very important artery of global trade. As you mentioned before, 10 percent of
global trade passes through the Suez Canal every year. And, therefore, for it to suddenly be shut for -- no one really knows at this point for how
long -- it will have a huge impact.
However, let's keep in mind that, between June 1967 until 1975, it was closed because of the conflict between Israel and Egypt and global trade
carried on, just they had to go all the way around Africa, which involves a lot more time and a lot more money.
Now sort of regionally, this is going to have a massive impact. For instance, Egypt in 2020 earned $5.61 billion off of operating the Suez
Canal. And keep in mind here, in Lebanon, we get our fuel from the Gulf via the Suez Canal. And already Lebanon is suffering from long power cuts,
which may get even longer as a result of the closure of the canal.
Syria, for instance, depends on Iranian oil that passes through the Suez Canal. So they could face even bigger crises than, of course, they faced
the last 10 years. So this is going to have a huge short-term impact.
Eventually, the economy, the world economy is simply going to have to adjust to this, assuming that this closure is going to go on for as many
people are saying, weeks -- Becky.
ANDERSON: John, we have just been discussing the impact that the closure of the Suez Canal has, not least as Ben rightly points out on Lebanon, on
many of the countries around this region and the Middle East and the Gulf.
You've been having a look at the sort of trade through there going the other way as it were. It's a major artery for consumer goods going to
Europe and for oil.
What's the tally here?
DEFTERIOS: Well, it's interesting, Becky. Everybody uses that benchmark as we did this evening; 10 percent of global trade. But it's 30 percent of
seaborne traffic.
And going to the concrete numbers here, what's taking place through that canal, Lloyd's List was suggesting there's $10 billion of product that
usually passes through every single day, almost equal, westbound and eastbound, the westbound traffic going to Europe, the United States a
little higher.
And then how many vessels?
We said dozens. That is correct. But we have a concrete number of 156.
Interesting to note to Ben's note, with the fuel going to Lebanon and other parts of Europe as well, that it's about 13 million barrels that's parked;
10 percent of the ships are oil, gas and petrol chemicals.
Yesterday we had this spike up of 6 percent in prices. We have the opposite today. I'll explain why. Looking at a loss of 2.5 percent to 3 percent
throughout this session. They think it can be solved by Monday.
So also we have to consider the rerouting that would take place. If they are banking on Monday, even though the Dutch operator on the salvage side
said it could take weeks if we have to unload, then you'll see the rerouting.
The tankers will be going a different direction and then you'll see this artery clogged for a much longer period of time. You have to think about
the timing of it because of COVID-19 and the slow recovery in Europe. This is the last thing you needed.
And the final point here is the MacLean's (ph), the Japanese operator; the owner apologized for this. They said the priority is to refloat. But they
do expect claims to come forward, obviously, because of what's transpired in this key artery.
ANDERSON: John Defterios in Abu Dhabi. Ben is in Beirut.
To both of you, thank you.
Another issue involving trade is in focus today in Europe. Leaders meeting right now to discuss COVID vaccine exports. Ahead, we'll speak with the
European Parliament member Manfred Weber on Europe's latest attempts to protect its supply.
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ANDERSON: We've been bringing you the latest on the ugliness brought about by the international fight over COVID-19 vaccines. Vaccine inequality is
taking center stage as European leaders meet to talk about tightening export controls.
The new proposal would govern the E.U.'s vaccine exports based on two things, reciprocity and proportionality. In other words, if a country isn't
reciprocating, exporting vaccines or raw materials, it might not get the vaccines from the E.U.
And if a country's vaccination program is going faster than the E.U.'s, that could affect vaccine export decisions as well.
In the latest in the spat between the bloc and the U.K. following AstraZeneca's delivery shortfall, it follows a reported raid on an
AstraZeneca factory outside of Rome. The company has refuted reports the doses were part of a stockpile, explaining that they were going to be
distributed through COVAX or awaiting quality control for release to Europe.
The disparities are laid bare along the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. CNN's Nic Robertson has the story.
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NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): At 101 years old, Mary gets her second vaccine shot.
ROBERTSON: How do you feel that you had your second shot?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel good.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Her doctor, Dr. Frances O'Hagan, is on a roll --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to give you a vaccine.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Putting shots in arms at a Northern Ireland clinic, just as fast as she can, all her over 60s done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's fantastic, at every clinic there's a real feel good atmosphere.
[02:15:00]
ROBERTSON (voice-over): At a nearby sports center the same dose, dozens of health officials are delivering 1,200 shots a day.
ROBERTSON: So far across Northern Ireland, more than one third of the population have had their first shot of vaccine. Rollout according to the
government is going well. South of the border in the Republic of Ireland it's an entirely different story.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Just across the Irish border, government vaccine supplies are stalling. Local doctor Elona Duffy has no shots for the next
few days.
DR. ELONA DUFFY, PHYSICIAN: The real issue is that we are a large practice, we have over 1,500 patients over the age of 70. And to date,
we've only been able to vaccinate about 210 of those patients.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): People on the other side of the border with vaccine envy. Unlike the U.K., Ireland relied on the E.U. for vaccines and
are way behind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a bit frustrating for people, you know what I mean?
ROBERTSON (voice-over): In his bar, Raymond is counting the cost of being shuttered through COVID restrictions for almost a year. A slow vaccine
rollout in the south is adding to his woes, business lost to Northern Ireland.
[10:35:00]
RAYMOND AUGHEY, THE SQUEALING PIG: They will probably be open so much faster, and when they open, young people are just going to flock across to
the border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: My next guest says, quote, "The current export mechanism has shown everybody that we are the first exporter of vaccines in the world. It
has also become clear that Europe is alone in this partnership approach."
Joining me, the leader of the European People's Party in the European Parliament, Manfred Weber.
And we will talk about the export mechanisms in a moment. But with all due respect, Europe's vaccination rollout has been nothing short of disastrous.
As Nic just pointed out, people south of the border treat those in Northern Ireland with vaccine envy. This vaccine program has been moving at a
maddeningly slow pace.
I know personal accounts of people, both young and old, in places like southern Italy, for example, who have yet to receive vaccines or even be
told when they might get them. Less than 5 percent of those over 70 have gotten their first shot in Italy for example. And this is preposterous.
Do you agree that this is an unmitigated disaster?
MANFRED WEBER, MEMBER, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: No, I don't agree because we, as Europeans, are ready to share our production in Europe with the rest of
the world. And U.S. and U.K. are nationalistic, are doing U.K. and U.S. first. There is not our idea of the Western world. Our idea of the Western
world is that we respect supply chains.
We respect free markets and that's why I defend the European approach to be ready to the rest of the world. We deliver, as Europeans, vaccines to Hong
Kong. We deliver vaccines to Canada. Not U.S. Not U.K., not to Canada --
(CROSSTALK)
WEBER: -- and those that can count on the U.K. That's why I defend our push (ph). But you are right. If the rest of the world is doing U.K. and
U.S. first, then Europe probably has also to do E.U. first in the future. And that's why we discuss about the export ban.
ANDERSON: OK. So you are admitting that the E.U. should actually be inoculating its citizens first or at least as quickly as you are prepared
to export vaccines, if that indeed is what you're doing.
WEBER: You have to do it with reciprocity. That means we delivered around 10 million doses in the last three months to Great Britain and received
nothing from Great Britain. That's why, full stop, reciprocity.
If someone wants to cooperate with you, you can have full access to our markets as well. That is the principle that will apply. On the other hand,
proportionality. For example in Australia, we have not a lot of cases of COVID. We have people not dying there in Australia.
That's why let's start with those countries where we have people dying currently, prioritize things.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: That is European -- OK. Let me stop you there, sir. Concentrate on countries where people are dying equals concentrating on European
countries, with respect. E.U. officials have stressed that the proposed export measures were drawn up to give the bloc maximum flexibility to deal
with existing problems.
It is, it seems, sir, inconceivable that it is 2021 and Europe is still dealing with these problems. This, sir, surely is the fault of the bloc
itself for being so behind the rest of the world.
WEBER: I don't see it in this way. We have Canada, Japan who are much behind Germany, Italy, France and other European countries. So yes, U.K.
and U.S. is first. Better than we for the moment but then Europe is the next. And we have the chance to be the first continent vaccinated on global
level.
I'm not so skeptical on this. When Joe Biden is today invited in the European Council meeting as all European leaders, then we have to discover
that we believe in open markets, yes or no?
That is what we discuss. If America tells us there is no need to share vaccines with Canada or with Europe, then, OK, that's the American
position. But that's not the idea of the Western world which I believe in. So we have to have a tough discussion among ourselves.
What do we believe in, a cooperative approach?
We believe in sharing exports of vaccines and hopefully the others will do the same in the future.
ANDERSON: I must say, sir, with respect, this is not a competition. You keep saying this is not about, you know, the U.S. and the U.K. This
shouldn't be about an egoistic response. And I think many people would agree with you.
[10:40:00]
ANDERSON: But the rhetoric you use almost verges on a sort of warlike rhetoric at this point.
Isn't this the fault of the bloc itself for being so behind the rest of the world?
WEBER: In a way, yes, because we're in a -- we were in a way naive because we thought that to get AstraZeneca products from Great Britain.
But Great Britain is not delivering one single zero doses to the European Union. That's a reality and that's why nobody wants to activate any kind of
vaccine war because we believe again in this sharing of responsibility and of supply chain.
But if we get no response from Johnson, if we get no response from President Biden, then you're right. Then our European fellow citizens are
asking me why I'm not doing more for me and that's why we are ending up in this process of E.U. first.
I don't like it at all, frankly speaking, but the rest of the world is giving us no alternatives as to do so. And let me be also frank. We have
also to consider, in this regard, the question about Africa and the COVAX countries.
For the moment, a lot of these deliveries on the export side is driven by business cases. Saudi Arabia, for example, gets a lot of vaccines from
Europe. So who pays more gets the vaccines. We should care more about the question, where is the biggest need?
There I see Africa, the neighboring countries of Europe, Ukraine, which deserves help from the European Union. And having Sputnik in mind, Russia
is doing geopolitics with vaccines and China as well.
And we as Europeans are only treating the issue as a business case. And that's not up to the challenge. We are in the middle of the biggest crisis
since the Second World War.
ANDERSON: We are in the middle of the biggest crisis since the Second World War if not before that. Sir, with that, we'll leave it there. Thank
you very much for joining us. Manfred Weber for you folks.
We'll take a very short break. Back after this.
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ANDERSON: Water hazards are a part of the game of golf. Rory McIlroy demonstrated one of the hazards of living on a golf course. That story is
next for you.
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[11:00:00]
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