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Connect the World

Fragile Ceasefire Between Israel and Hamas Still Holding, Clashes at Mosque Where Latest Tensions Began; Benjamin Netanyahu: Hamas Can't Hide Any More; Fragile Ceasefire Between Israel and Hamas Still Holding, 240 Plus Palestinians, 12 In Israel Dead After Days of Bloodshed; Lawmakers Question Military Aid to Israel After Gaza Attacks; Ayman Safadi: Occupation is the Root of All Evils. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired May 21, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN, Abu Dhabi. This is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Welcome back. This hour after 11 days of violence, deadly violence we now have a ceasefire, but what does it

actually mean for a future of Palestinians and Israelis?

Well, as the fragile ceasefire sets in between Palestinian militants and Israel we have seen small bursts of renewed attentions on another front.

Flashes breakout today at the Al Aqsa Mosque, Israeli police firing rubber bullets and stun grenades after they say, Palestinians threw stones and

Molotov cocktails.

Huge crowds had gathered after Friday prayers, the mosque have been, of course a flashpoint over the past several weeks, and it is where the latest

tensions began. Well, some 16 hours in that ceasefire between Israel and Hamas does appear to be holding the Gaza city skyline was quiet today after

a brief but bloody conflict.

Well, after the bombing stopped Palestinians across the West Bank, Gaza and inside Israel took to the streets to celebrate the deal which was brokered

by Egypt. Again, we must note this conflict didn't happen in a vacuum, it remains to be seen if there will be any attempt to resolve the issues that

led to it.

A lot to discuss here over the next hour let's start with CNN's Hadas Gold in Jerusalem, where those clashes were unfolding a short time ago and we

will discuss what happened there Hadas --in a moment. First, I do want to talk about the ceasefire. And that is good news for people on the ground

whose lives have been so badly disrupted, people losing family members.

We've been here before, haven't we in 2008 and 2014 and now in 2021. There is evidence today in the images that we have seen from Al Aqsa that these

problems do still exist, and will do Hadas unless more is done to address these root causes?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Becky. On the first day, first full day of this ceasefire I think it is very symbolic, perhaps

indicative of the fact that we saw violent confrontations once again, at the Al Aqsa compound.

The entrance of which is just behind me through that archway earlier today shortly after or shortly around the noon prayers. There were thousands of

people on the compound. They were chanting. They were both celebrating the ceasefire, but also the campaign that preceded it.

They were waving both Palestinian flags the green flags of Hamas as well as the Islamic Jihad flags. Now there was a violent confrontation the police

on the compound began firing stun grenades and rubber bullets and trying to forcibly remove people, including journalists from the compound trying to

clear them from the compound.

Now police say that the protesters there were throwing stones, Molotov cocktails at them but just go to show you the tension that still exists

here. Now according to the Palestinian Red Crescent, 20 people were injured. The Israeli police say that they arrested 16. And right now it is

been calm.

It has been calm for quite some time here on a Friday afternoon here outside of the Al Aqsa compound, but the tensions that erupted the clashes

that erupted today. They - it goes to show that though the ceasefire has been holding and I think that is the most important headline out of all

this that the ceasefire is holding.

It just goes to show you that the tensions that were part of what sparked this latest conflict. The Gaza militants saying specifically that they

fired those first rockets towards Jerusalem in response to clashes, we had seen even much larger clashes we have seen at the Al Aqsa compound, as well

as of course, what's been happening to Sheik Jarrah neighborhood were several Palestinian families face eviction.

All of those issues still exist, despite the fact that a ceasefire may have been brokered between Israel and Hamas. These underlying tensions are still

very much alive, still very much a tinderbox that can be set a flame at any moment.

Now, importantly, again, the ceasefire is holding but the question is where do we go from here? And how will these issues be addressed? We know that

the U.S. Secretary of State Blinken is planning to come to this region within the next few days.

They say he is going to be speaking with Israeli Palestine, other regional counterparts to try and get on some sort of path to peace because as we

have seen, over and over and over again, this is just a cycle that seems to repeat itself.

Tensions conflict that then erupts in violence between Israel and militants in the Gaza Strip, then a ceasefire, then a truce and then we just seem to

do this story over again a few years later, Becky.

[11:05:00]

ANDERSON: We're just looking at these images. These are from Jerusalem and we heard celebratory fireworks last night in Jerusalem. We saw the

celebrations late into the night in Gaza, celebrations of a ceasefire. Not everybody on either side is celebrating but the majority it seemed in Gaza

and in Jerusalem was.

We also heard chance against the leadership. In Fattah the Palestinian leadership, the PA, what is the sense of support gained by Hamas, with

Palestinians and continued issues that Palestinians have with the Palestinian Authority?

GOLD: Well, they were definitely chants earlier today around the compound against Mahmoud Abbas. They were also chanting, they were also chanting in

support of the actions that preceded the ceasefire and waving flags of Hamas willing flags of Islamic Jihad.

And then there is of course, a frustration here with the leadership there is a sense that some Palestinians were supportive of the actions that were

coming out of Gaza. And keep in mind, of course, what was happening before this conflict erupted. There were supposed to be Palestinian elections that

were then delayed.

Now the Palestinian Authority partly blamed Israel for that delay, about saying referring to issues about voting in East Jerusalem. But I think that

goes to show you that there are tensions and political divides on all sides here, within the Palestinians within the Israelis, of course, while there

is attempts to still form other governments.

Prime Minister Netanyahu, seemingly coming out of this conflict being able to hold on to power even longer but clearly there is a stark divide between

Palestinians frustrations with the vacuum of political leadership here and the tensions and the issues that partly sparked this conflict continued to

be here despite the fact that there may be a ceasefire.

And we still have not heard from international leaders from leaders here on the ground about what will be done to fundamentally change that.

ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. That is something we will discuss throughout this next hour. For the time being Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem for you.

Thank you.

Well, this round of fighting took a very high toll on the people of Gaza, with at least 243 killed including 66 children according to the Gaza Health

Ministry. Now the United Nations Chief Antonio Guterres says children there are living in hell on earth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO GUTERRES, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL: The fighting has left thousands of Palestinians homeless, and forced over 50,000 people to leave

their homes and seek shelter in older schools, mosques, and other places with little access to water, food, hygiene or other services.

I was horrified by reports that nine members of one family were killed in Al-Shati Refugee Camp. If there is help on earth, it is the lives of

children in Gaza today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Ben Wedeman is on the ground for us in Gaza. He's been able to access the city on what is frankly and understandably a fairly shaky

connection. Can you hear me Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I can hear you Becky.

ANDERSON: Excellent. So just describe what you are witnessing at this point?

WEDEMAN: Well, I'm still in - streets where several buildings were obliterated on at 1:30 in the morning on the 16th of May. And what I'm

seeing is that hundreds of people are coming here to look at what happened. And some people are taking pictures with their cell phones but other people

are just staring at - what they see keeping in mind that many of them stuck in their home or in these UN schools and elsewhere taking refuge.

And this is the first time people have been able to actually get out, go and see what happened to their towns and villages and cities and they are

in a state of shock. Now this is the - the December 2008 and - in the sense has become accustomed to it in a sense not accustomed to every time -

shown.

[11:10:00]

WEDEMAN: And most of these people are bystanders to this war. There are many people here, do not support Hamas. I think people came out in support

of Hamas because they felt in Hamas unlike the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah led by Qatar of doing something in response to the situation in

Jerusalem, but at the same sense of exhaustion.

How many times in this tiny strip of land along the Mediterranean, with a population of 2 million people crammed into take this beating? Time after

time and of course - remember there was the first Intifada, Second Intifada. And it may be people's ability to carry on, despite this

incredible resilience.

And at the same time exhaustion, exhaustion, time and time again, they've had to clean up after these horrendous and terribly destructive wars,

Becky.

ANDERSON: Ben, America's Secretary of Defense tweeting, and I quote, I welcome the Israeli cabinets' decision to agree to a ceasefire and shared

his hope that there will be a complete restoration of calm. We agreed on the importance of Israel having the capabilities it needs to defend itself

from rocket and missile attacks.

I was struck by the Secretary of Defense's use of the word, a restoration of calm, many people suggesting that that is just not sufficient at this

point. You're on the ground; you're speaking to people in Gaza. And while they celebrate, I'm sure a restoration of calm. That is not the end game

here for them is it?

This is an area under siege, under blockade. What needs to happen next Ben? You you've seen this time and time again, your career have been punctuated

by these conflicts between Israel and Hamas just your sense of the atmosphere there and what people want next?

WEDEMAN: People want to be able to live a life that isn't one of such limited horizon. The most people you speak to here have never left the Gaza

Strip. Most people here are young. And I think there's a feeling that this blockade has been in place since 2007 when Hamas took over - made in their

lives, almost without hopes.

They have very little ability to travel abroad. The unemployment here is around 60 percent. The economic situation has been difficult for years.

And, you know, I think we've diplomats and the politicians who think that calm is the solution, calm is not the solution.

The solution as a fundamental resolution of this conflict that has eluded the people here, the people - on the international community has failed in

doing. And going back to 1993 with Oslo Peace Accord, there was this idea that eventually there would be able to be a so called two states solution,

Israel and Palestine living side by side.

That hasn't worked. And, for instance, I know Palestinians here in Gaza, who is my age, they recall the days when they could drive from Gaza City to

the Golan Heights and back - takes your family to Tel Aviv to the beach. And that has gone, even that the pre peace process situation for many

Palestinians was better than what they have today after the scale diplomatic process.

And the feeling is something actually really - complete restart, a complete rethink on how to resolve the problem. Because what's diplomats, United

States leading the efforts to try to create a two states solution. It's a fool's mission. It will not create stability.

And in fact, now we're living in a three state solution. We have Israel you have the - ruled by Qatar, you have Gaza ruled by Hamas. And it's a

catastrophic situation.

[11:15:00]

WEDEMAN: I mean, increasingly many Palestinians will tell you what we want is - equal in the same land of Israel have the same civil and political

rights within the one country. Call it Israel, call it whatever you like. But this current situation works fine to the Israelis.

But for the Palestinians, this is an open wound, and there's no - nothing on the horizon that promises them that this wound will be healed. It's only

getting worse Becky.

ANDERSON: Ben Wedeman is in Gaza. Apologies for the slight issues with Ben's sound but it's so important that we get Ben's perspective as he has

been able to access Gaza and these images, those sent by his team will just into us now flashes from the West Bank, just moments ago, have a look at

these.

Well, these Images just into CNN. The ceasefire between Israel and Hamas is holding, providing some relief for the people of Gaza. But he - as Ben was

suggesting, that is not the long term solution. And these images from - in the West Bank we've also seen images of clashes outside the Al Aqsa Mosque

today in Jerusalem.

Well, the Regional Head of the International Committee of the Red Cross welcomed the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. But on Twitter, he

cautioned that if it does not hold, "We will soon see again, the same unbearable images of violence and destruction". I spoke to him yesterday

about the current humanitarian situation in Gaza. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FABRIZIO CARBONI, ICRC NEAR AND MIDDLE EAST DIRECTOR: The health system is under major pressure because of ongoing violence, because of the pandemic.

And also what we should never forget is that the previous violence in 2014 it's not that we rebuilt everything, and that everything was fine.

You know, actually Gaza never fully recovered from the previous cycle of violence. And by the way, it makes me think what will come after this

current cycle of violence if the root causes of this crisis are not addressed?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, still ahead many not all, but many, celebrating an end to the current Israeli/Hamas conflict. We talk to people on both sides a

conversation with an Israeli Minister is just ahead.

And some members of U.S. Congress want America to get tough with Israel after all of this bloodshed, starting with calls to block a huge arms deal.

We'll look at what is at stake on the show. You're watching "Connect the World". I'm Becky Anderson, back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:00]

ANDERSON: Well, the world is welcoming a fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. The deal brokered by Egypt does appear to be holding although

fresh clashes broke out on another front at the Al Aqsa Mosque earlier on in Jerusalem where crowds had gathered at the holy site earlier for Friday

prayers.

Well, at least 243 Palestinians and 12 people in Israel lost their lives and what has been more than a week of conflict. Israeli Prime Minister

Benjamin Netanyahu is touting Israel's operation in Gaza saying that the militant group, Hamas does not have a place to hide anymore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: When we went out on an operation together, I have defined its main goal to land a hard blow on the

terror organizations to harm their capabilities to restore calm while establishing our deterrence. And that is exactly what we did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, let's get you an Israeli perspective on the truth. Let's bring in Israeli Minister of Community Affairs Tzachi Hanegbi; he's also a

member of Israel's Security Cabinet. Sir, crucially for us today is, as we talk about the ceasefire, the details of the agreement, and indeed what

happens next the minister joining us live from Jerusalem, and we thank you for that.

So before we get into the ceasefire, I do just want to get your reaction around what has happened at the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem today? We did see

Israeli police firing stun grenades at Palestinians, many of them worshippers who were chanting in solidarity of the people of Gaza, as a

result of the ceasefire, as you understand it, what happens sir?

TZACHI HANEGBI, ISRAELI MINISTER OF COMMUNITY AFFAIRS: I'm not aware of everything that had happened today. But I am sure that we will see the

restoration of calm also in Jerusalem. Jerusalem, is a city of various religions, various tribes and cultures, and hopefully, it's going to be the

way we pronounce Jerusalem in Hebrew - the city of peace?

ANDERSON: Well, it certainly isn't nor has it been for some time. Let's talk about the ceasefire. You were in that security meeting when Israel

decided to accept the ceasefire. I just wonder whether you can walk through what happened behind the scenes and how that came about. Clearly an

enormous, an enormous amount of pressure, not least from the Americans on Israel, and its Prime Minister, to actually stop the conflict and sign up

to there. So what happened?

HANEGBI: I don't think so. I don't think that we were pressured. I think that we had a very constructive dialogue with the whole world and

especially with our friend, the President of the United States. And for several days, the Prime Minister and President Biden had long

conversations, I think six times altogether.

When the Prime Minister explained why we cannot put an end to the operation until we reach its goal. As you know, this war was not launched by Israel;

we were attacked by surprise, in the holy day of our country, the day of Jerusalem.

Hamas without no justification, and no provocation on our side, shot seven missiles at civilians living in Jerusalem and their only crime was that

they were Jews living in a biblical capital city of Israel. Anyway, we understood the need to put an end to the violence but we made sure that we

reach the goal.

As you have mentioned before, the goal was to restore the calm but to deter Hamas from repeating its aggression against Israel.

ANDERSON: Right. Hamas, let's remind people here is a group designated a terrorist group by many countries in the world and also seeks the

destruction of the Israeli State. It says that it was the Palestinians were provoked, and it was defending the provocations in Al Aqsa some weeks ago.

And indeed, the forced evictions as Palestinians see them of Palestinians in the Sheik Jarrah area.

[11:25:00]

ANDERSON: Look so I just want that to be clear. Not much has been made public about the details of this ceasefire and indeed, the concessions that

are to be made, if any. Now Hamas had previously said that Israel must hold the evictions of Sheikh Jarrah residents, and the violence against

Palestinians in Jerusalem, particularly around the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Clearly after today's events, we see that that is not the case. I'm just asking you, sir, what flexibility, if any, has Israel agreed to with

regards Al Aqsa and the evictions at Sheik Jarrah?

HANEGBI: As you have heard the president, we are talking about a mutual, unconditional ceasefire. There was no condition attached to the agreement

initiated by Egypt, of course, we are not dealing with Hamas, which is a terrorist organization committed to destroy Israel.

There's nothing to talk about with them. Because though then they don't even recognize Israel's right to exist in this country, not only in

Jerusalem, but in any place in the State of Israel.

Of course, Jerusalem is a sovereign part of Israel, and we are not going to have dictations for anyone about the way we work in our capital city. So

the major demand that will probably be the core of what's going to happen in the future is whether we are going to see more violence from Hamas?

If there's not going to be any violence and if they will behave normally and stop shooting at civilians you will see Gaza flourishing. You will see

Gaza, the people of Gaza, getting life getting their hopes, getting their vision of the future.

ANDERSON: I must ask you at this point that you make an interesting point. I must ask you, will Israel lift the Gaza blockade and let the people of

Gaza out of what has been this 15 year long, open air prison?

HANEGBI: Becky, you've been here in Israel many times, you know that Israel left Gaza 15 years ago. I don't know what is the blockade you relate to

really? We are out of Gaza. There's no one--

ANDERSON: But it is under siege. Let's be quite clear.

HANEGBI: Jewish settler, one second. We left Gaza. We were ready and eager to make Gaza live independently, and to help Gaza with infrastructure and

budgets and agriculture and knowledge and science and whatever we can help them with.

But unfortunately, they were taken hostages by the Hamas who took over in 2007. Killed the people of the PA they ruled over Gaza and made Gaza into a

kingdom of terrorism, what can--

ANDERSON: So I wonder what the solution is. I wonder what the solution is here sir because if you will not negotiate with Hamas that many people

watching this show will absolutely understand then what - the future for the people of Gaza. There was tragedy wasn't there and loss of life on both

sides? And that is awful and nobody wants to see a repeat of this.

However, we are in a cycle of war, temporary truce, and then war again. It is the people of Gaza and its residents that have suffered the most. We

just heard the UN Secretary General calling it hell on earth for children. And this ceasefire, although restoring calm does not solve the underlying

issues.

So I don't want to get into an argument about whether or not Gaza is under a blockade, is under siege by the Israelis because it is? But I just want

you to explain how you see the process of restoration reconciliation, when you will not communicate and perhaps understand it --understandably so,

with the organization that runs the place.

HANEGBI: OK, but it's a long question. Let me please relate to it in a full way.

ANDERSON: Please do.

HANEGBI: I think that I cannot agree with you more. Gaza is tragedy. It's devastating. It breaks everyone's heart here in Israel to see millions of

Palestinians subject to Tyron rule of people who don't really care about their lives. You know, I'm representing Israel in the convention every

year.

There's a convention in New York when the United Nations Assembly convinced to help the Palestinians with donations. And there are billions, hundreds

of billions of dollars waiting to be invested in Gaza, in infrastructure in everything.

[11:30:00]

HANEGBI: I don't want to name each and every project there are hundreds of projects. I have books like this, describing the future of Gaza. But they

don't want to give it to the Hamas because they know that Hamas will take the money and use it for measles for rockets, for tunnels for war for

nothing for vain so all the people of Gaza are prisoners, they are enslaved by the terrorist organization so you ask me what is the solution?

ANDERSON: Right.

HANEGBI: The solution is the Palestinian authority takes over Gaza and make sure that they run into - go into a dialogue with Israel. So I have nothing

to do with Gaza. We don't want to control Gaza unlike Judea or Somalia where we have major security issues that will help to discuss with the

Palestinians and make a solution. Gaza, we don't want to anything to do with it. We would wish them to be an independent state forever and ever.

ANDERSON: I don't want to cut you off. But I am right up against heartbreak at the bottom of this hour. I would like to talk to you again about

solutions. For the time being I thank you very much indeed for joining us on the show today. We are taking a break. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: What was once a routine arms sale is suddenly facing new hurdles? On May the 5th, the Biden Administration informed the U.S. Congress it

planned to sell $735 million worth of weapons to Israel, triggering 15 days for lawmakers to object.

Well, it was in those 15 days that we saw what has been this fierce bloodshed in Israel and in Gaza. And as the deadline arrived on Thursday

this week, Independent Senator Bernie Sanders introduced a formal resolution to block the sale.

Well, a similar resolution was put forth in the House. And the sale will start still likely go through but Sanders and other progressives in

Congress argue that the U.S. should not be sending more weapons to Israel just when we've just seen so many innocent civilians get caught in the

middle of what has been the latest conflict.

And there is no one more innocent than the child. CNN's Arwa Damon brings us a view of what children and their families are going through in one Gaza

hospital.

[11:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Sarah (ph) has injuries to her skull, lungs, arm and leg. But doctors say the worst are the multiple

pieces of shrapnel lodged in her spine and spinal cord. She can't feel her legs Sarah's Mom says and doctors fear she may never again, especially not

if she stays here.

The family says there was no advanced warning before the strike. They had no idea what was coming. So soon, that's what her older brother Omar (ph)

calls her. She needs an advanced Neuro Surgical Center. We don't have those in Gaza.

Doctor said there is hope that she will be able to stand on her feet her father says. He's begging for help. He wants his little girl to have her

life back; a life filled with gleeful cries of joy a life where she can stand on her own.

She's struggling psychologically, her father says. She keeps asking me why daddy? Why did they have to do this to me? Arwa Damon, CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, joining me now is Peter Beinart who's been part of my shows' coverage for years who says the time has come for the U.S. to get a

bit tougher in its relations with Israel. And let's discuss this Peter. Israel has long been a recipient of U.S. military aid loans and assistance.

Take a listen to what President Biden said yesterday after the ceasefire was announced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The Prime Minister also shared with me his appreciation for the Iron Dome system, which our nations

developed together and which has saved lives of countless Israeli citizens of Arab and Jew. I assured him my full support to replenish Israel's Iron

Dome system to ensure its defenses and security in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, it is Israel's military aid that many on the progressive left of the Democratic Party have a problem with and they are making a lot

more noise about that then perhaps we have seen before. You've said it's time to end blank check military aid to Israel. Just explain what you mean.

And whether you may think it's the end, but whether it's - its time? Whether that is actually realistic?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: So to be clear, I completely support U.S. funding for Iron Dome and other anti missile defense systems.

I myself with my daughter was in Tel Aviv in a shelter a few years ago being protected by Iron Dome and other anti missile defense systems. I have

many friends and family in Israel, I would never ever, ever want them to be in harm's way.

But the U.S. gives $3.8 billion in military aid to Israel a year and that most of that money is not used for Iron Dome. It's also used for things

like demolishing Palestinian homes, not the homes of people who've done anything wrong other than build without permits in places where they can

never get permits, because they're not citizens of the country that dominates their lives.

It's used to help Israel do things like imprison Palestinian children, take them away from their family in the middle of the night without their

parents knowing where they are and be held in preventive detention sometimes for days.

Those are not things that American taxpayer money should be funding in Israel or anywhere else around the world. I don't support unconditional

U.S. military aid to any country. The Biden Administration has talked about making democracy and human rights at the center of American foreign policy

after the disgraceful Trump era that should apply to Israel as well.

We can protect Israel's legitimate security needs and the safety of its citizens without bankrolling things that are destructive to the human

dignity of Palestinians.

ANDERSON: Are we witnessing as a sea change? Perhaps, you know, enough of a change that warrants conversation about American support for Israel going

forward?

BEINART: The dirty little secret is that I think in the Democratic Party, many Democratic politicians and others already knew that there was

something fundamentally wrong with what Israel was doing? They knew it even before Israel's own leading human rights organization - Human Rights Watch

said that Israel with practicing apartheid.

[11:40:00]

BEINART: They knew it because it's not complicated, because the things that we want in our own country, which is equality under the law, irrespective

of one's race, religion, or ethnicity are the very principles that Israel fundamentally denies, when it holds millions of Palestinians without the

most basic rights.

People knew this already. But there was political fear among many, many Democrats. I think what you're seeing a little bit is some of that fear is

lifting, and people are feeling more empowered to say the things that they already knew, which is that this is wrong.

ANDERSON: Joe Biden insists that his quiet diplomacy was the right way to go. He isn't just weighing up how to proceed, of course, with Israel in

this current conflict? He is also potentially on the brink of a new nuclear deal with Iran. And that, of course, plays into the political calculus

because he'll need to get the Israelis on side. What do you think his next move will be from here?

BEINART: I don't have high hopes for Joe Biden. I think first of all, Joe Biden wants to focus on American foreign policy on Asia. Secondly, he knows

that he has a potential big fight with the Israeli government over the Iran deal. And so I think he's unlikely to pick up fight with them over the

Palestinians as well.

But while I don't have high hopes for Joe Biden, I do think that there is a shift happening in the Democratic Party, where it is unlikely that the next

crop of Democratic Presidential Candidates and {residents will take the view that Joe Biden does.

Joe Biden, for whatever set of reasons seems unable to really face the question of American complicity in that fundamental denial of Palestinian

rights. But I think luckily, those kinds of Democratic politicians are probably going to be a thing of the past.

ANDERSON: Fascinating. Peter, it's always a pleasure. Thank you. That's Bineart's analysis and insight. Up next, I'll be talking to a Middle East

expert on how the Palestinian issue might go forward? Britain's Former Minister for the Middle East will join us live from England, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, a tenuous ceasefire that ended 11 days of intense conflict between Israel and Hamas does appear to be holding although moments ago,

fresh protests broke out on another front that of the West Bank. Earlier in the day clashes also at the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.

Israeli police fired rubber bullets and stun grenades. They say they were responding to a riot after Friday prayers. Palestinians had gathered by the

hundreds chanting in support of Hamas and in support of the ceasefire brokered by Egypt. This round of fighting has taken a gut wrenchingly high

human toll.

The Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry says at least 243 Palestinians were killed in the conflict militant fire out of Gaza, resulting in at least 12

deaths in Israel.

[11:45:00]

ANDERSON: Well, my next guest is Britain's Former Minister for the Middle East. Alistair Burt is highly regarded by many in this region. He is live

with us from Bedfordshire in England. And it is good to speak to you sadly, though.

On this subject which you and I have discussed before, war a temporary truce of conflict. This is a cycle. And so I want to discuss how you

believe that we might break that cycle? But first, what do you make of the past 11 days and this ceasefire at present?

ALISTAIR BURT, FORMER BRITISH MINISTER FOR THE MIDDLE EAST: Every cycle has fundamentally the same origin that is the failure to deal with the issues

between Israel and the Palestinian people over a lengthy period. But then each cycle is sparked by some individual incident which sets it going.

And we saw this time it was the actions in East Jerusalem, then Al Aqsa, and then the response with the rockets, which left the Israeli Prime

Minister no option because once rockets kill civilians in Israel, their reaction is entirely predictable.

So the individual incidents are usually distinct, but the cause remains ultimately the same. But what we also see with each cycle is something

worse happens each time. This time, perhaps it's the inter-communal violence in Israel, which has shocked and surprised people. And maybe that

is one of the clues to how we can move forward so that this cycle doesn't keep repeating itself.

ANDERSON: The Secretary of Defense, the U.S. Secretary of Defense I noted earlier in the show applauding the restoration of calm, he says in Gaza.

But you and I know that the restoration of calm cannot be the end game here. You know, the region and this file well?

You just said that the failure to secure adjust resolution to the Palestinian issue was responsible for the scenes and violence. And you say

it is a mistake to think the Palestinian issue could be managed or be expected to drop away.

Many have criticized the new U.S. administration, Joe Biden, for possibly taking his eye off the ball wanting this file to sort of be relegated,

hoping that they could just sort of move on and pivot to Asia? How do you see a path forward here? And who are the key stakeholders? And what is the

solution?

BURT: Well, let me give you my take on it as best I can. And I was first the Minister for the Middle East just over 10 years ago in the United

Kingdom. I had five years in the role in all of the past decade. And I said regularly during that period, that the issues between the Palestinian

people in Israel could not be dealt with unless there was a just solution for the Palestinians.

And also the security of Israel, and its existence was guaranteed to not mutually exclusive. But unless there is progress towards those two

objectives, then we will keep seeing things. I think the last year has been interesting in two new realities coming clear effect.

First was the Abraham accords, which was a wakeup call to Palestinian leadership to say that the Middle East cannot stay stuck forever at your

veto. And there must be progress on your side because states want a relationship with Israel.

And secondly, what has happened just now, and the reaction in United States and elsewhere also indicates that there is a change in the way people are

seeing the issue. There is more criticism of Israel's position, and more sense that this is an issue related to justice and rights, which has been

much in the news of the last year.

And that adds to my feeling that perhaps there is the time now to deal with this. Because if people are looking at this issue differently, if certain

Arab states now have a greater interest in helping to resolve this, if they want to see a Middle East which moves on maybe those two things are keys to

encouraging the United States.

Now it's getting properly involved with the issue, not one-sidedly but trying to find justice for all, then perhaps there is a way forward in

this.

ANDERSON: Those states that have normalized relations with Israel, those being the UAE, Bahrain, and then Morocco in Sudan, ought to have greater

influence through direct channels these days to help provide a solution and to use their influence and that those relationships to provide some

leverage.

[11:50:00]

ANDERSON: And certainly from the UAE's perspective, they have always said that a two states solution and the issue of the Palestinians' cause are

firmly at the heart of the decision they made to normalize relations with the Palestinians and with the Israeli.

So, you know, we are yet to see where that will go? Almost all of the Palestinians that I have spoken to have been critical of the administration

in Ramallah and this is really key, isn't it that we have seen a vacuum in Palestinian leadership through it in it and inefficient Palestinian

Authority.

We have seen Hamas filling that void, to the extent that we have heard chants at the Al Aqsa Mosque against Mahmoud Abbas chants for Hamas. This

is a designated terror organization, which seeks the destruction of Israel.

So I guess going forward, my question really is, you know, do you genuinely believe there is an opportunity for change here, particularly when for

example, we see not even the opportunity for Palestinians to vote in an election at this point, conveniently, many say, postponed by the PA, just a

couple of weeks ago?

BURT: Well, two issues to disentangle here. Firstly, those Arab states have signed the accords with Israel I think there will be greater leverage in

time, but it's not an automatic thing. They will want to hang on to the Abraham Accords first.

But the census change, because people who will have accepted the pathway going forward with Israel last year, will look at what has happened in the

last few days and raise more questions. And I think the UAE has been very clear that they signed the accords quite deliberately in relation to the

annexation.

They believe the annexation was stopped because of what they did. And they do hold the Palestinian cause very dear. And no one should mistake that.

And I think we will hear more of that. But in relation to Palestinian leadership, it is - it's a hollow claim of Hamas to take the leadership, if

all they can offer is continuing the fight which they cannot win, and repeating the issue of the missiles and the rockets.

The tragedy is that after the Abraham Accords were signed, there were some movements between the PA and Hamas, the word talks, there were talks in

Cairo, there were talks in Beirut, or talks elsewhere didn't quite get to where they needed to do, then the elections were called off.

And you're right; that common argument by Israel is true in relation to who can they talk to at the moment. So that pathway of discussion in the

Palestinian leadership must commence immediately. If there is to be a new future, Israel has got to accept that they cannot ignore the issue or

manage it any longer. They have to - they have to get to the heart of it, if we're to stop this cycle again.

ANDERSON: So this is what the Palestinian Prime Minister told me, just this time, last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMAD SHTAYYEH, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRIME MINISTER: Now, we will launch a new dialogue in order for us really, because we want to come to a

political ground with Hamas. We want to come to a political ground with all Palestinian factions nobody should declare war on himself or herself. And

nobody should be part of peace process on his own. The Palestinians, we need to be united in order for us to face the challenges that we are

facing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: So that the perspective of the Prime Minister just alluding to what you - what you were talking about just earlier on. I also want our

viewers just to hear some of the discussion I have with the Jordanian Foreign Minister this week, have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER AND DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Beyond the immediate reason, I think what is happening speaks to the fact that the

level of frustration with the absence of political horizon, the consolidation of occupation, that disownment of the two state solution by

some Israeli politicians as the only path forward all contributed towards the creation of environment that led to the current explosion.

It is in all of our interest to stop to pause to get back to the roots conflict and accept that occupation is the root of all evils. If we are to

have peace and stability, we have to stop the occupation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: We have 30 seconds. Do you agree?

BURT: I agree with both Mr. Shtayyeh and Ayman Safadi, both these issues have to be tackled. There's no future for the Palestinian leadership unless

they can come together. Jordan has watched this happen for so very long.

[11:55:00]

BURT: But the occupation is perhaps at the root of that sense that something has changed over 20, 30 years in how people see the issue between

the Palestinian people and Israel. Israel is entitled to security in existence.

The Palestinians are entitled to adjust settlement. It cannot be beyond the wit of all of us to seek to do that, in order to prevent this cycle of

violence and children going to bed in fear as we've seen the last few days.

ANDERSON: Alistair Burt, it is always a pleasure. Thank you very much indeed, for joining us.

BURT: Thanks Becky.

ANDERSON: We're going to take a very short break back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: I just want to take a moment to look back at the week that has been very intense, very sad, and maybe a week that has left us with a

little bit of hope maybe. Over the course of this 11 day conflict between Israel and Palestinian militants we have seen an enormous amount of

destruction and suffering.

243 people have been killed in Gaza; according to the Hamas run Health Ministry there 66 of those are children tens of thousands there have lost

their homes. The next step will be the rebuilding, that will take some time.

Israel saw intense rocket and mortar attacks. 12 people died as a result including two children. But we end this week on pictures of celebration

with the two sides going into the weekend with a ceasefire in place after a violent cycle that is going on for so many years.

We can only hope that this is the beginning of something better, and something more lost. So I am going to end out this week with a note of

optimism for all of us. However difficult things will be in the future. Do stay well and very good evening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END