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Connect the World

Skepticism Over Taliban's Caretaker Government; High Security for Suspects' Trial in 2015 Deadly Rampage; Mexico's Supreme Court Decriminalizes Abortion; Afghan Resistance: One Group Shouldn't Dominate Politics; CNN Speaks to Afghan National Resistance Official; Profiles of Women who Fled the Taliban. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired September 08, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN, Abu Dhabi. This is "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, this hour the question many people are asking who will recognize the Taliban's new government? I'm

Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome back to "Connect World.

Governments around the world looking warily at Afghanistan a day after the Taliban revealed a temporary cabinet that includes hardliners old guard and

a member of the FBI's most wanted list. The U.S. State Department says it is assessing the lineup but it's concerned by the track records of some of

the individuals in these top positions.

We are looking at the new Interim Prime Minister with his Finance Minister and Chief Justice the EU, UK, even China calling for more inclusion which

the Taliban had promised. The group also saying they will uphold Sharia law and we are seeing how their rule is playing out on the ground?

Taliban fighters using whips and sticks against women's staging a small protest in Kabul they've also beat some journalists who were covering that

demonstration. Meantime, from abroad, the Former Afghan President is apologizing for fleeing as the Taliban closed in. Ashraf Ghani says staying

in the country would have made the situation even more volatile.

He denied claims that he stole millions of dollars belonging to the Afghan people. Well CNN covering this across the globe. CNN's Nic Robertson is in

Islamabad, Sam Kiley is in Doha, in Qatar and Kylie Atwood is at the State Department.

Nic, a government of hardliners and terrorism suspects that's the news here in a nutshell and that is alarming not only many Afghans themselves, but

many not all, but many in the international community. Why?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, China has said that it will continue its communications but to support humanitarian aid,

Pakistan here feels it's got a huge amount to lose if the international community flatly rejects the Taliban government because that would mean

more economic isolation and that will mean more refugees coming out of Afghanistan and Pakistan will be on the front line of that.

So you know, I think when we look at this, this very strict government that will strictly interpret Islamic law in the way that they have in the past.

That's going to worry a lot of Afghans but for the international community, it presents a huge dilemma.

This is not the inclusive government that the Taliban would be not inclusive by bringing in women, because it doesn't not inclusive by

bringing in other ethnicities because it doesn't, not inclusive, because it brings in members of the former government because it doesn't. So it falls

short. This is a huge dilemma for the international community right now.

ANDERSON: Kylie Atwood, the State Department is and I quote them here, assessing the Taliban's government. What are your sources telling you?

KYLIE ATWOOD, U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think this is complicated by the fact that the United States is still working with the

Taliban, right? They said that U.S. troops once they were out of the country, once the Americans were out of the country, that conversation with

the Taliban would somewhat subside.

But as we've seen, there are still Americans who are there, there are still Afghans who the United States says that they are going to help get out of

the country. So they are still in direct dialogue with the Taliban, which creates an air of confusion with regard to how forthcoming the Biden

Administration can be about what they view as this new Taliban government, which is nothing in with regard to what they wanted it to be right?

We have heard from Biden Administration, officials, negotiators who have sat down with the Taliban over the last year or so who said that they were

looking to involve women? Well, there are no women in this interim government. There are also of course, questions about how the United States

could deal with many of these officials.

Given that they are under U.S. sanctions. One of them is on the FBI most wanted less. So this is a really complicated position for the U.S. to be in

right now. But I think we'll see some more clarity with regard to how the Biden Administration really feels after they feel that all these Americans

are out of the country?

ANDERSON: Not clear whether the U.S. will work with them, then going forward? Sam to you, Antony Blinken, the U.S. top diplomat in Doha

yesterday saying and I quote him here, many countries have stepped up to help that evacuation that Kylie was alluding to there and location efforts

in Afghanistan.

[11:05:00]

ANDERSON: But no country has done more than Qatar. And Sam the tiny Gulf Kingdom, which is reemerging on the world stage, will be a key stakeholder

going forward, given its close relationship with many of the Taliban's key political figures?

They've hosted members of the Taliban now for some time, and be mediating the past efforts with the U.S. Look, the Taliban are going to need all the

support they can get aren't they, as they have few friends on the international stage at this point?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the Qataris not their friends, they are very stress that repeatedly whenever they dealing

with the issues of the Taliban. What they do have, though, is the air of the Taliban, they've played a very important facilitating role mediating

role.

It's no accident that the United States Embassy that was based in Kabul is now based here to handle affairs relating to Afghanistan. But there is

inevitably going to be a sense of disappointment, deep disappointment among Qatari officials.

Because one of the things they have been working extremely hard on is to impress upon the Taliban, for their own sakes, if nothing else, the idea

that you could have a moderate government, one that was inclusive, and one that would be stabilizing in terms of promoting trade and aid to a country

that needs both very, very desperately.

And what we've seen now is this very hardline government with some people that are considered pretty unacceptable terrorists on the international

stage, particularly the Interior Minister, Sirajuddin Haqqani, who has a price on his head, as Kylie has mentioned, but also is personally

associated with terrorism and historically close to Al Qaeda.

This is definitely not what the Qataris or anybody else was signaling to the Taliban. And I think it probably indicates it will be interesting to

see if the Qataris go public with any of this. But it certainly indicates that the Taliban have turned a deaf ear to a lot of the advice they've been

getting, and not least in terms of the internal inclusivity.

I mean one of the things we're seeing emerging quite rapidly now is almost daily protests against Taliban rule by women in particular, but not just

women protest against Pakistan's influence with the Taliban, but above all demands for human rights.

The Taliban are not popular in urban Afghanistan. They have some popularity, tribal support in the south in the east of the country. But

elsewhere in the country, which is where the majority of Afghans now live, they now an urbanized population, they are unpopular, and the more

unpopularity that they generate through this sort of pretty hardline government means that they are going to risk being very threatened in terms

of their own internal stability.

And then of course, you almost inevitably will get a kind of negative feedback circle in which they take on more and more draconian policies.

They are trying to be tolerant at the moment, at least on the public stage, that this government, this hardline government is not going to go over

well, internationally or locally Becky.

ANDERSON: This Nic is an interim government. Certainly that was the message when it was announced by the Taliban spokesman yesterday. Is there a sense

and you've been talking to your sources in Pakistan? We know that the head of intelligence from Pakistan was in Kabul out the weekend talking to the

Taliban?

Is there a sense that this is very much a sort of stopgap, you know, it was only 23 days ago, of course, that Kabul was fell to the control of this

group. A sense from Pakistan, that there may be more leverage by Islamabad and others on what this government might look like, going forward?

ROBERTSON: I think that hope would exist, I think that's perhaps part of what the Taliban want to convey by calling it an interim. But let's examine

the facts. Go back a decade, the United States was trying to get the Taliban to negotiate with the Afghan government a decade ago, and they

wouldn't because U.S. troops were in the country.

Four members of the Taliban cabinet now we're in Guantanamo Bay. They were released in 2014 and allowed to set up a political office in Doha with the

idea you can see very clearly that that would become the way that the United States could at least have some dialogue with the Taliban.

2018 the United - Pakistan releases another key player, the deputy prime minister now from jail here. He becomes a chief negotiator with the United

States. The expectation is that the Taliban say that they will negotiate in good faith with the Afghan government for an interim government.

What happens they take the country by force? What happens when they appointed government it appears they haven't listened attentively to all

those who've been giving them guidance?

[11:10:00]

ROBERTSON: It's not inclusive. It doesn't have women. The Taliban have shown on their track record of the past 10 years. They have a vision of

where they're going, and they will outwait everyone else to do what they want. And I think at the moment, look at the interior minister with a $10

million FBI bounty on his head, they will do what they want.

And I think at the moment, we have to say, it would be somewhat wishful thinking that they're about to translate this into something different in

the coming weeks or days.

ANDERSON: It was 20 years ago, this weekend, Kylie Atwood that the Twin Towers were bombed. It was just after that, of course, that the U.S. and

its allies went into Afghanistan, the bill to America, more than $2 billion.

At this stage as you talk to people at the State Department, what is this sense about what sort of leverage the U.S. have, if any at all? What sort

of stake the U.S. might have in Afghanistan's future, at this point?

ATWOOD: Not very many. I mean, you talk to State Department officials who served in Afghanistan who had very formidable relationships with leaders in

Afghanistan, who were a bit more progressive, leaning towards including women in society, leaning towards education, working with the international

community.

And now you see what has happened. And as Nic was saying, I mean, the Taliban barreled into the country using military force. And then they

disregarded completely all of the conversations that they had been having behind closed doors with U.S. officials, saying that they were going to

have an inclusive government saying that they weren't going to overtake Kabul.

Well, they did exactly the opposite of what they were saying behind closed doors. And, you know, the United States decided that they were going to

double down. President Biden was very clear that he wanted us troops to leave the country. And by doing so, all U.S. leverage really was taken off

the table with regard to, you know, the military prowess that was on the ground there.

Now, of course, you will talk to people who will say the United States still has the economic tools that they can use, they still have, you know,

travel restrictions that they can actually apply to the Taliban, which have largely been, you know, passed over to allow the Taliban to kind of move

around to different countries for these negotiations.

So if they wanted to apply those tools, they could, and there is every possibility that they will. But the bottom line is that the Taliban have

what they want right now, which is control of the country. So I think there are questions as to just how effective those tools will actually be.

ANDERSON: Economically, the Taliban will need support going forward. And I thought it was a choice line by one university lecturer in Afghanistan

quoted it I think, in "The Financial Times" who said the Taliban's indifference to international recognition, he said, is alarming one voice

from Kabul today. To all of you, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

A lot more about the new Afghan Government just ahead - you can head over to our website, you'll find more reaction as well as this who's? Who are

the key players that cnn.com or on your CNN app?

And in about 15 minutes, we'll do more; we'll take a deep dive into Afghanistan's National Resistance Front, its leader, Ahmad Massoud calling

on all Afghans to rise up against the Taliban. I'll talk live to the group's spokesman Ali Nazary.

Well, seeking justice for the deadliest terror attacks ever carried out with French soil. Security is tight in Paris where a trial got underway a

few hours ago after a deadly string of coordinated attacks on the French Capital in 2015.

130 people didn't live to see the morning after that rampage. All their names were read out in court a short time ago and that night six years ago

still haunts France. CNN's Melissa Bell takes us back to those traumatic hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): France shaken to its core. November 13, 2015, a night of terror that began at the - then saw

coordinated attacks across Parisian bars, restaurants, and the Bataclan Concert Hall. In all 130 people were killed that night. Now their families

and those who survived are preparing to relive an ordeal that is beyond words.

[11:15:00]

OLIVIER LAPLAUD, SURVIVOR OF BATACLAN ATTACK: I'm sleeping a little bit less. I had some flashbacks.

BELL (voice over): France's biggest ever trial which we'll see 300 victims testify will be held in this specially designed courtroom over at least

nine months. The French President of the time Francois Hollande will also give evidence. But of the 20 men accused of planning, eating and carrying

out the attacks only 14 will be in the dock.

The most closely watched will be Salah Abdeslam. He was arrested in Brussels A few months later, one of the only known survivors amongst those

accused of being directly involved on the night. ISIS may have claimed responsibility. But so far, he has refused to speak.

JEAN-MARC DELAS, VICTIM'S ATTORNEY: It isn't so much that the trial is going to disappoint because we're not expecting a lot. But that's it might

not even shed much light.

BELL (voice over): One of the challenges will be ensuring that justice is done on all sides the outpouring of grief that followed the attacks, a

reminder of how wounded France was as a country with a question now of how neutral its judiciary can be?

NEGAR HAERI, SUSPECT'S ATTORNEY: It won't just be about sentencing, but about democracy. It is the idea of justice that is in question. In any

case, it is tested in this trial.

BELL (voice over): For those who were there that night and still live with its images, the trial will also be about being heard.

LAPLAUD: Only the victims and people who experience that that night can understand what I'm feeling and the violence and the images that what I saw

the blood, the corpse?

BELL (voice over): Something he says that will be hard to explain, but necessary to say, Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, CNN's Cyril Vanier is standing by for us at the Palmetto Justice Courthouse in central Paris and as I understand it security,

extremely tight. The French, quite frankly not wanting to risk anything at this point just explain what we can expect at this point?

CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just a word on security Becky, you know, the French authorities did have the choice and did for a short moment

consider holding this trial in a purpose built area, say a conference hall, something that would have been perhaps better suited to the vast numbers of

people that are in this courtroom.

300 lawyers 1800 plaintiffs even though each one of them isn't there every day, as well, of course as the 14 defendants. But there was a symbol to

this Paris was attacked in its heart in its center. And the trial is taking place in the heart of Paris in the center of the city. That's just to

address your security comment there.

As far as what we can expect? Well, the trial has been underway for just a handful of hours now. And it's going to be a very long procedural, slow

first few days were the names of each of the victims have been read. The names of the survivors of the plaintiffs, the 1800 it's just 300 today

we'll go in batches.

And of course, the names of the defendants the alleged terrorists, the most significant one, among them Salah Abdeslam he is the lone surviving member

of the commandos that carried out the attacks and he did start or did attempt to set the tone for how he would address the court today.

As soon as he had the opportunity he said there was only one god but Allah and when he was asked what his profession had been Becky before the

attacks? He said I gave up my profession to become a fighter for the Islamic State therefore suggesting that Salah Abdeslam is not only

unrepentant, but intends to address the court in the manner that he wishes Becky.

ANDERSON: Cyril Vanier, outside the courthouse for you, Cyril thank you. Well, a monumental change in Latin America, we'll look at the effects of

the Mexican Supreme Court's decision to decriminalize abortion. And --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't go even one of them. They don't go. I'm back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You meant that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Six children, a young protector and a desperate flight to freedom, we'll have the details of harrowing escape from Afghanistan as

these kids begin a new life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:00]

ANDERSON: Mexico has taken on historic and controversial step. The country's Supreme Court unanimously ruling that penalizing abortion is

unconstitutional. Well, protesters gathered at the court to demonstrate against that decision which sets a precedent for abortion decisions across

Mexico.

Rafael Romo is in Mexico City and joins us now live. And just set us some context for this decision. Because this is quite - this is an important

decision by the highest court.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is very important indeed Becky decision that divides the country no doubt about it. Then there's long been

disconnect between the relatively liberal capital and the generally more conservative states here in Mexico, especially in the north in this mainly

Catholic country.

But the fact that the Mexican Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that penalizing abortion is unconstitutional sets a precedent that will be applied in the

country's 32 states. And here it is very important to point out that this was a unanimous vote.

The main issue the court was to consider was whether it is constitutional to punish a woman who has an abortion with a prison sentence? And the

ruling stems from a law enacted in the Northern State of Coahuila, which said that women who get an abortion may be punished with up to three years

in prison and a fine.

Justice Margarita Beatriz Luna Ramos one of three women on the court said the ruling has to do with the rights of the individual. Although she's

aware, she pointed out that this is a topic that causes division in democratic societies in society.

She said that she's against stigmatizing those who make this decision that she believes is difficult to begin with due to moral and social burdens and

it should not be burdened as well by the law. She added nobody gets voluntarily pregnant thinking about getting an abortion later.

Supreme Court Chief Justice Arturo ZaldA-var said that Tuesday was a historic day for the rights of all Mexican women. Another Justice Luis

Maria Aguilar also referred to the ruling in historic terms; he called it a historic step that has a direct impact on their lives.

Referring to women, of course, never again, he said, will a woman or a person with the capacity to carry a child be criminally prosecuted. So

that's the ruling, it's going to definitely have an impact in the entire country and for the time being that law in the State of Coahuila, because

of this Supreme Court ruling is his mute Becky, back to you.

ANDERSON: Yes, and we've seen some demonstrators who are clearly very unhappy about this decision. I don't think it will be lost on our viewers

that we are telling this story at a time when it comes so soon after the decision against abortions in Texas. I mean, the juxtaposition couldn't be

clearer could it?

[11:25:00]

ROMO: Yes, that's right. So, to put it in perspective, there's long been what is called medical tourism here in Mexico. Prices here in Mexico are

much cheaper when it comes to dentistry and medicine in general. So there has been historically in the trips made by Americans to Mexico.

And the question now is the same thing going to happen? When it comes to women seeking an abortion in Texas, where it is now banned? Are they going

to travel to Mexico? There's absolutely no indication at the moment that that's going to be the case.

But that's one of the questions - the question is that this decision, this ruling by the Supreme Court has brought about what's going to happen in the

future? And what is going to happen here in Mexico as well, regardless of this ruling by the Supreme Court?

One of the justices was saying that between 750,000 and a million abortions happen every year in Mexico, what's going to happen to those? So it's a

very complicated issue, and we haven't seen the last of it, Becky?

ANDERSON: Yes. Rafael Romo is in Mexico City for you. Thank you. Well, you're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson. And still ahead

on this show the Afghan resistance movement vowing not to give up the fight against Taliban rule. I'm going to speak live to the spokesman representing

this man, the Leader of Afghanistan's National Resistance Front that is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: The U.S. Secretary of State is in Germany today for a meeting with his German counterpart on the future of Afghanistan. Antony Blinken

and the German Foreign Minister a Jew to hold a news conference this hour.

Well earlier Blinken talked to families from Afghanistan who are being housed at or near Ramstein Air Base waiting for permanent resettlement to

the United States or other safe locations. Well not long after the Taliban announced its hardline interim government the Afghan National Resistance

Front issued a statement calling the caretaker cabinet illegal.

The group led by this man Ahmad Massoud called on Afghan citizens to continue their resistance against the Taliban. It also urged other

countries to hold off on recognizing what it calls the Taliban regime.

Well, Ali Nazary is the Head of Foreign Relations for the National Resistance Front and he joins me now live. And it's good to have you with

us. The Taliban claim to have captured Panjshir Valley you have refuted that saying and I quote that the resistance is still all over the valley.

Just describe for our viewers, if you will the state of play in Panjshir Valley at present?

[11:30:00]

ALI NAZARY, HEAD OF FOREIGN RELATIONS, NATIONAL RESISTANCE FRONT: Thank you for having me. The current situation in Panjshir is a bit more complex than

what the mass media is reporting.

The Taliban haven't taken the whole province. They've only taken the main road and the provincial center, the provincial building is located near the

main road. So this is why they were able to host their flag.

However, the Panjshir Valley, the Panjshir Province is very complex. The topography of it, the geography doesn't allow an invader to take over the

whole valley. The Soviets were unable to do this nine times.

The Taliban are unable to do it right now. 60 percent of the valley is under our control 60 to 65 percent. Because Panjshir has many sub valleys,

it has more than 15 sub valleys. All of these sub valleys are under our control. All of the strategic positions of Panjshir are under our control.

We tactically withdrew from the main road and we are going to return for the past two nights, there has been heavy fighting, the Taliban have

suffered heavy casualties. And in a matter of time, all of Panjshir will be cleared.

ANDERSON: Well, just days ago, and I just want to be clear what's going on here because just days ago, Ahmad Massoud, the leader of the NRF announced

on his Facebook page that he supports a truce in Panjshir to end what has been weeks of fighting, does he stand by that? What will it take to achieve

that at this point?

NAZARY: So we've always been in favor of peace of a peace process of negotiations that could create the right conditions for lasting peace in

Afghanistan, meaning the equal distribution of power and resources to everyone. Afghanistan is a country made up of ethnic minorities.

And so we believe that one group cannot dominate politics. Everyone has to join hands. Power has to distribute to everyone and an inclusive government

has to be formed. Now we see what type of inclusive government and the Taliban were always looking for, based on their announcement yesterday.

So the disagreements were on the nature of the political settlement. We believed in inclusivity, we believed in the equal distribution of power, we

believed in justice being established the rights and freedom of everyone being preserved and democracy being preserved.

The Taliban were against these principles. And so right now, our sense, Mr. Ahmad Massoud, Commander Ahmad Massoud, the leader of the National

Resistance Front, two days ago addressed the nation. He called upon every single citizen to rise up against this tyrannical terrorist group.

And for the past few days, they've answered his call. People inside Afghanistan from many cities from many provinces have started their

protests, have started their uprising, whether it's peaceful or armed, but they're - accepting as call for a general uprising throughout Afghanistan

and even outside of Afghans.

ANDERSON: Now, look, I have to ask the whereabouts of Ahmad Massoud and former VP, Amrullah Saleh are unknown, where are they do they remain in the

country?

NAZARY: So Commander, Ahmad Massoud, the leader of the National Resistance Front is inside the country. He's in a safe place, but he hasn't left the

country. Mr. Saleh as well, is inside Afghanistan.

ANDERSON: Can you be clear about where they are?

NAZARY: Unfortunately, we cannot disclose their location, but they are in Afghanistan, they are inside the country.

ANDERSON: Have you or Massoud, have you spoken to any members of the Taliban since the announcement of the government?

NAZARY: No, all lines of communication have been cut. This is a terrorist criminal syndicate that we do not want to be associated with. And now look

how many people how many terrorists are in their cabinet. They're a puppet of a country.

They've allowed a country a foreign country to intervene into Afghanistan's affairs. And this is unacceptable to us because this violates Afghanistan's

territorial integrity, Afghanistan's national sovereignty and independence, any group --

ANDERSON: You're talking about Pakistani?

NAZARY: That allows - well, based on based on what CENTCOM sources and CENTCOM has said that a foreign country has directly intervened especially

in the operation, the Taliban's operation against Panjshir, and their aggression against Panjshir.

So this is an invasion of Afghanistan. This is why the people of Afghanistan are accepting Commander Ahmad Massoud as their leader today,

not the Taliban.

[11:35:00]

NAZARY: The Taliban, in the past two days, the Taliban have the geography in Afghanistan. They control most of Afghanistan. But this has been proven

to everyone now, who enjoys the legitimacy amongst the masses.

With one call, Ahmad Massoud in an audio was able to mobilize most of Afghanistan's people. Right now it's going viral.

He's receiving support from all ethnic groups from all sectarian groups. The Taliban has been trying to do this for 20 years, they failed and they

still lack support amongst the vast majority of Afghanistan citizens.

ANDERSON: Let me put this to you. Your group has accused Pakistan of using drones to support the Taliban offensive in Panjshir Valley. What proof do

you have to support that?

NAZARY: Well, this is something that was verified by CENTCOM. And the verification came from CENTCOM yesterday and this has been published by

many, many sources now by many new search sources. So it's not rumored there is intelligence services that have information.

There's, there's organized agencies, organizations and the likes of CENTCOM that know about this incident itself. There are sources in CENTCOM that,

that leaked this in the news.

ANDERSON: Right. But I am going to appreciate here, because reports of is not the same as you having evidence of. So I do want to just push you on

that. What evidence do you have specifically to support Pakistan's use of drones in support of that Taliban offensive?

NAZARY: Well, one thing is that the Taliban lack in Air Force. The Taliban don't have pilots, the Taliban don't have drones, and they don't have jets.

And so when something in the air is coming and conducting attacks and operations, whether it's reconnaissance or whether it's attacks, it's not

from the Taliban. They don't have these capabilities. And there are many witnesses that experience.

ANDERSON: Let's talk about what happens next. Your group is urging the international community to hold off recognition of and refrain from

diplomatic ties with the Taliban's regime. We know that already many foreign players have expressed willingness at least to deal with the

Taliban.

China is a good example of that. And there are others certainly in region that are likely to do the same. So what is your message today?

NAZARY: Well, I have to convey something else to before answering this. Since last night, the Taliban have started massacring civilians in the

Panjshir Valley. They've been taking children, women, men, young and old. And they've been massacring them.

There has been 100, few 100 people who have been massacred and this is genocide, they're deliberately targeting a group. They're deliberately

killing people, civilians. And this is a genocide, they just started another Holocaust is unfolding inside Afghanistan.

When it comes to their government or their regime, this is unacceptable to us. It's unacceptable to us and the vast majority of the international

community. Look at the claims that they were making, making that we're going to form an inclusive government.

Now we see what inclusivity means to the Taliban. This is the most homogenous government regime that Afghanistan has ever had in its history.

Yet, they're the ethnic groups, they're clearing their hazardous don't even have one member in their cabinet.

25 percent of the population doesn't even have one hasn't been given one ministry, hasn't given one position in the government. So this shows what -

means to the Taliban and the future of their government.

ANDERSON: And there is there, I don't think there's a viewer watching this today who would describe what was presented to the world yesterday by the

Taliban spokesman as an inclusive government. You will be well supported on that.

I just want to go back to the statement that you've just made. You say that there is a genocide going on, at present inside Panjshir Valley. I have to

push you again on this. I mean, what is the evidence that you have for that?

We have heard and this was before the announcement of this Taliban government, we've heard reports of retribution and reprisals, but it's

very, very difficult to stand those reports up. Do you have firsthand evidence that what you have been describing is going on?

NAZARY: Well, it's very difficult to show videos of this at the moment because the Taliban have closed off the Panjshir. They've cut off phone and

internet service. So the very limited phone service that we have our sources inside Panjshir reported this happened.

[11:40:00]

NAZARY: And there was many other people who reported who are not associated with the National Resistance fronts, who are from Panjshir, who posted

this, who called that that many of their family members have been taken.

And this is not only happening in Panjshir for the past few days in Kabul, and this was reported in the news as well, that the Taliban are going house

to house identifying people from Panjshir and under our districts, and they're gathering their youth picking them to undisclosed locations.

We did not know what's happening to those young men who were taken from their homes in Kabul and what is going to be their fate. So this is a start

of a humanitarian crisis. This is a start of genocide of a massacre. And it's not going to be only limited to Panjshir.

They are going to attack sectarian minorities like the Smiley's like the Hazara Shia's, the Uzbeks and everyone else in the country. They are going

to limit what basically take away all the rights of the women.

The women when Mr. Commander Ahmad Massoud called upon the population, the first group that rose against the Taliban, the past few days were the women

in Kabul and Mazar-i-Sharif and today in Badakhshan --. Do this is a struggle, this is an uprising throughout the country when women and men are

joining the resistance.

ANDERSON: In a recent interview, you said with regard the Panjshir and I quote you here, "our strategy will continue until we achieve justice and

freedom for all Afghans". I just want you to explain what justice and freedom look like or mean to you.

NAZARY: Freedom is when all rights all in alienable rights that human beings have to have is given to them. When there's a society and open

society where women and men of all religious groups of all ethnic groups or sectarian groups are able to freely live coexist peacefully in a society, a

democratic society based on the values that we cherish, where justice is established, social justice is established.

And we believe the best political system to establish justice to bring freedom to bring peaceful coexistence between the different communities of

Afghanistan, since Afghanistan is a multicultural, multi ethnic state, is a federated political system, a decentralized political system.

We cannot have a highly centralized political system where one political force is dominating the country. One of the reasons why we have perpetual

conflict in Afghanistan is because there's a zero sum game, one individual grabs power, and others are losers.

And this continues to conflict for years and years to come. So we have to solve this problem. This is the fundamental problem that has prevented

justice from being established, has prevented actual freedom from being granted to the general population, and for the citizens to exercise their

rights, that's human beings, whether it's women or men and the Taliban are taking all of this away.

And this is why we are going to stand up resist till the end. We are going to be making a decision about the government. The legitimate government of

Afghanistan will be formed will be announced in the near future.

We are not going to allow a syndicate to represent our country, a criminal syndicate a terrorist group that has ties with international terrorism that

is giving al Qaeda haven right now inside Afghanistan for this group.

ANDERSON: Right.

NAZARY: To create a haven for international terrorism and Afghanistan.

ANDERSON: So at present with the makeup of this current interim, Taliban government, let me just get you to mark this one off. You are saying that

you will not do business; you are not interested in any sort of outreach, any sort of role in that government going forward. Or a government that has

anything like this sort of makeup going forward? Correct?

NAZARY: No, this government, this regime, is unacceptable to us. This is an illegitimate regime, not supported by because the majority of Afghanistan's

people support the resistance, the natural resistance front and this is becoming more apparent today with one call or uprising.

The citizens of Afghanistan throughout the country are rising up and they're speaking against the Taliban and they're expressing their support

for the resistance. So we're the legitimate representatives of Afghanistan.

The people of Afghanistan support the resistance and support the resistance efforts to create the legitimate government of Afghanistan to represent

this country in their international community.

[11:45:00]

ANDERSON: And I understand your perspective. And you are perfectly correct in saying there are many who will see you as the legitimate representatives

of Afghan people, but not all of Afghan people. And there are pockets in areas in rural areas where people are simply looking for security.

They're looking for some sort of justice, but ultimately looking for security. And we've seen enough reports now of people who aren't

necessarily applauding this Taliban regime, as you call it, this new Taliban government, but at least what they want to see is the end to a

sense of insecurity.

And that was what some not many, but some will say was the situation over the last 20 years. Tomorrow marks the 20th anniversary of Ahmad Shah

Massoud assassination, which was of course, a prelude to the 911 attacks. I just want you to reflect on the past two decades briefly, if you will, from

your group's perspective.

NAZARY: So our struggle has always been whether it was when, when the struggle first began more than 40 years ago, when the late Commander

Massoud rose up against the tyrannical regime of the communists.

Or is, if it's today, as always been to establish justice, to give freedom to the people of Afghanistan, to preserve Afghanistan's independence to

create peaceful coexistence amongst Afghanistan's ethnic group sectarian groups where everyone sees themselves as owners of this country, as

belonging to this country.

We believe that our traditions should be preserved. And one tradition is rationalist Islam, we are not going to accept radical Islam coming from the

outside into our country. We've been Muslims for the past 1300 years.

And we adhere to a rationalist Islamic doctrine. We are not going to give this up for something that's being important in our country.

So these are our values and principles that we have been struggling for, for the past few decades, whether it was during the late commander

Massoud's lifetime, whether it was the past two decades, and whether it's today with our new resistance against aggression against tyranny, against

terrorism.

So what we stand for is all of these values are for democracy. It's for justice is for freedom. And we are not going to stop our resistance or

struggle until these are achieved. And the people of Afghanistan, they are not seeking security.

ANDERSON: Right.

NAZARY: The vast majority of Afghanistan's people want peace. Stability doesn't mean peace. Stability means that an oppressive regime could come

and establish stability. The Taliban will not be able to establish peace.

ANDERSON: Well, let's be frank, there is a short term need for stability and security. So it's good to have you on, thank you very much for sharing

your perspective with us today.

NAZARY: Thank you very much.

ANDERSON: You're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson, folks, we'll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:00]

ANDERSON: While happening now, America's top diplomat is in Germany alongside his German counterpart there in the country, thanking Germany for

it's a combination of so many U.S. and Afghan citizens at Ramstein Air Base, those who have been evacuated from Afghanistan and are seeking a new

home either in Germany or in another safe country.

Antony Blinken just had this to say moments ago about the new interim Taliban government. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Yesterday, the Taliban named a new interim government. We're assessing the announcement but despite professing

that a new government would be inclusive. The announced list of names consists exclusively of individuals or members of the Taliban or their

close associates and knows when.

We're also concerned by the affiliations and track records of some of those individuals. We understand the Taliban has presented this as a caretaker

cabinet. We will judge it and then by its actions, the international community is made clear its expectation that the Afghan people deserve an

inclusive government.

Today, Foreign Minister - and I co-hosted a virtual ministerial meeting of 22 countries plus NATO, the European Union, the United Nations to discuss

the next chapter on Afghanistan. The Taliban seek international legitimacy and support any legitimacy, any support will have to be earned. And we

heard that across the board from everyone participating in today's session.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: We're going to take a very short break, back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, for the many Afghans who have fled the Taliban some are right here in Abu Dhabi awaiting resettlement in the West. Amongst them are

women who had made remarkable strides under the freedoms of the old government, women who now realize that there is simply no future for them

in Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON (voice over): Shekiba was one of Afghanistan's rising stars. Her warm voice and colorful wardrobe is a regular feature on Afghan TV. It was

a dream come true for this 23 year old. Well, now that dream has turned into a nightmare.

Earlier this month she fled Afghanistan his life on the Taliban rule is no longer safe. Alongside 33 other women she was evacuated to Abu Dhabi, where

she waits before starting a new life in Canada.

[11:55:00]

SHEKIBA TEIMORI, AFGHAN SINGER: We felt that we have to come out of the country because of our actions because we knew Taliban. They had problem

with music and especially with women who think we just knew that we have to hide ourselves to be saved.

ANDERSON (voice over): And she is not alone. Zara is a professional cyclist. It's not her real name. She hides her face out of fear for the

safety of loved ones left behind.

ZARA, AFGHAN CYCLIST: As a girl, cyclist, as an athlete, as I couldn't stay in my country. We used to practice we used to have competition and we were

happy we were doing our sport. But nowadays it is really disappointing. It is - it hurts us actually.

ANDERSON (voice over): She says she and her teammates were at risk back home. She feels lucky. But leaving wasn't easy.

ZARA: My country well, my family and my relatives, my people, they're all there. Since is really difficult.

ANDERSON (voice over): Rodabe is a member of Afghanistan's prize winning girls robotics team and an aspiring doctor, for her leaving home is an

opportunity. The team was a success story of women's empowerment before the Taliban takeover. Now their only hope for success is to make a fresh start

outside Afghanistan.

RODABE NOORI, MEMBER OF AFGHAN ALL-GIRL ROBOTICS TEAM: I plan when I get to Canada just go to university and study extreme again. So that's my dream,

and I wish that we could have a better future.

ANDERSON (voice over): In recent days, Afghan women have been bravely and publicly protesting standing up to Taliban rule has been met with violence.

Rodabe, Zara and Shekiba all hope to go back to Afghanistan one day. For now though, they represent what the repressive Taliban regime fear the most

empowered women with a voice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And that is it from us. Tonight stay safe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END