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Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky Talks to Reporters After Call with U.S. President Joe Biden. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired January 28, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:23]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: The White House sticks to its assessment that this buildup of troops along the Ukraine's border can only

be interpreted one way, that an invasion could happen at any time. But Ukraine striking a much less certain tone on any Russian attack. An

official telling CNN a call between Kyiv and Washington, quote, "did not go well."

Plus, this hour with exactly a week to go until the start of the Beijing Olympics, rights groups call for further diplomatic boycotts over human

rights abuses.

I'm Becky Anderson. It is 7:00 p.m. here in Abu Dhabi from CNN's Middle East programming hub. This is CONNECT THE WORLD.

Well, we start with the growing rift between the U.S. and Ukraine over the prospect of a Russian invasion and how to respond to it. Look, U.S.

President Joe Biden telling his Ukrainian counterpart in a phone call that an invasion may be imminent, a word that was repeated today by the top U.S.

diplomat in Moscow. But President Zelensky is downplaying the prospect of any quick attack. He is set to talk to reports any minute now in Kyiv.

Russia's Foreign minister says if it was up to his country, there will be no war. Sergey Lavrov also says Russia won't budge on its main demand. A

guarantee that NATO won't expand into Ukraine or elsewhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: I don't see any room for compromise here. What can we agree on if the previous agreement is being

openly subverted and misinterpreted? Well, as regards to balls in courts, well, we play different games. They play baseball and we play Russian

games.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: We have Sam Kiley with the latest from Kyiv in Ukraine, Nic Robertson with perspective from Moscow, and Alex Marquardt is in

Washington.

I do think it's interesting that he there alluded to games a number of times. There's an awful lot of game playing it seems here at this point.

Sam, as we wait to hear from President Zelensky, a disconnect, it seems now, between Kyiv and Washington over all of this. What's going on?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this follows a private briefing begin given to my colleague Matthew Chance by a source

inside the presidency, who'd characterized the phone call following discussions between President Zelensky and President Biden as having not

gone well. The version that Matthew was told was that the call had not gone well, that increased rapidity of the joining of the accession process to

NATO for Ukraine was unlikely, that there wasn't going to be a large amount of extra weapons coming in, but that there was a danger of an imminent

invasion from Russia. In one version even suggesting that Kyiv could fall.

Now this version of the phone call has been disputed hotly by White House officials. The White House saying that that isn't how they would

characterize the phone call. And indeed, there are elements within the government here in Ukraine who appear to be backtracking on that

assessment.

Essentially this has come at a very unfortunate time indeed. Zelensky's office has in the past been robust. It doesn't tend to use the sort of

diplomatic often mealy-mouthed sort of language of other politicians. President Zelensky himself, a former actor, a showman if you like, does

tend to get on the front foot. And that's been reflected I think in the briefing and some of the language coming out of the briefing to Matthew

Chance, but I think they're trying to put this behind us, Becky, and I think -- or behind them, and now I think, I suspect that any minute now

when we hear the results of Mr. Zelensky's press conference today, we may see a very different tone.

Because the truth of the matter is that the United States is the biggest supplier of military equipment to the Ukraine and they are desperately

needing more and more military supplies if it is going to come to a war, whether it's imminent or further off, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes. I'm going to let you just listen into this press conference.

[10:05:02]

We were just showing pictures of the room being organized and the correspondents, reporters being shown in, so we expect to hear from

President Zelensky momentarily.

Sam, have a listen to what's going on there. Meantime, Nic, what's the perspective where you were in Moscow at this point?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I think we got an indication of that from the foreign minister. The president is weighing up

his options. He's looking at all the considerations. They feel that, you know, that the United States and NATO took a long time to get back to them,

and so it reasonably could be a while before the president has made up his mind what to do.

And it's a huge decision, right. You know, is there an off-ramp in what's offered or isn't there? And if there isn't, and you need to press for more,

how are you going to do it? And they keep saying it's going to be the military option. And I think we got a couple of hints of that today from

the foreign minister. You know, he said, look, the way that the United States responded to us, it was sort of gold plated, very polite diplomacy,

whereas NATO less so, much more, you know, much different sort of language, and indeed Lavrov went on to say that he felt sorry for the person that had

written that text.

How do we read that? Well, we know that, you know, we know that Russia went to both separately U.S. and NATO with essentially the same document because

it believes it can get something different from the U.S. and something different from NATO or maybe the U.S., can pressure NATO into accepting it.

That's what they believe. They believe that the United States has the biggest clout in NATO.

And there was another sort of revealing comment by Sergey Lavrov as well. He said, look, you know, and this is in the context of just a couple of

days ago, the Normandy Format talks in Paris where, you know, French, Germans, Ukrainians and Russians talking. You know, he said, it's clear

that the French and the Germans are not going to pressure Kyiv into accepting the Minsk Agreement. So we're looking to America to pressure

Kyiv. So they're going to look at that tension between Zelensky and President Biden --

ANDERSON: All right, Nic, I'm going to stop you there. We've got President Zelensky ready to speak to correspondents, news gatherers. Let's listen in.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Thank you for your corrections. First of all, I would like to tell you that this is not

the first meeting, not the first conversation in such a forum. And I would thank Mr. President that he is interested in Ukraine, and also what is

happening in our country and he mentioned some plans and measures. And I thank him for his -- for the support of our sovereignty. But I am the

president of the Ukraine and I know more details as any other president, including the president of the United States.

So, yes, we understand what risks are -- the priority. We speak about many things. And I would like to explain the situation that it is important that

the president knows, he is aware of the situation from me, not from the middle man. And we communicate and probably will speak again in a couple of

weeks. And it's important that not just our Secret Services exchange information. We have to understand all the details.

I don't know for how long you are over here, but when journalists come over here or some other important politicians, I invite everybody to visit

Donbass because -- to assess the situation on Donbass justly. The person who is on site. When I was elected to president, I came to Mariupol and at

that time even in Mariupol we could hear the sound of war. I could hear shooting. And this was quite nearby, and today I know such details, and I

wanted for the people like you to go over there and understand that there is no more escalation as it was before.

[10:10:02]

Yes, the troops (INAUDIBLE). And I spoke about it last year when the Russian troops amassed along our borders and our allies persuaded Russia to

move away their troops. And I believe the situation is now not worse than the situation which was last year. And there is no -- there was no such

situation in the media space. That's why I said to the president that all as it should be balanced and the journalists if they would like to

understand the situation, they have to come to Kyiv.

We don't have tanks on our streets. And we have some feelings if you are not over here, if you are in Germany, the United Kingdom, the United

States, and Argentina, if you are the media, you think that we are in the war, that we have mobilization, we have troops in the streets. We don't

need this panic. And this is a very important moment. I don't think that expression is impossible. We speak friendly about this. There was

escalation, it started in some parts of our territory, unfortunately it's partially occupied.

And now from the economic point of view I spoke to the president and I informed him that we started to work with the leaders of the world, and

explained to him that we have to stabilize the economy of our country because due to all those signals from all the respected leaders of the

world that tomorrow we'll have war. That's panic. Panic in the markets, in the financial sector. Am I too long? Yes. No, no.

How much does it cost to our state? I want you to understand this. We require the unity of our people. We have to be assured in our army that

they have to trust its president, to its government, to its offices, but the information could be misleading, and it shouldn't be, because otherwise

we have economic panic. I will give you an example how much does it cost to us. We had last year record GDP. It increased. In a short span of time, we

had $6.5 billion of new investments.

But since the beginning of such I would say informational situation $20 billion were escaped Ukraine and our currency reserves were on the highest

level for the last 10 years, but you have to understand that our state cannot cope with these situations independently. We support our currency

from our currency resource, and it goes via to the country. Maybe it's a little bit imbalanced informational politics.

This is one of the deep issues -- some of the challenges that we have, some misunderstandings with the president of the United States. It's wrong. He

deeply understands what is happening in the United States, and I deeply understand what is happening in Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We finish, to finish with, the money issue correspondent from Bloomberg Agency. Thank you.

[10:15:02]

You spoke about money. How do you estimate -- about the money requirements so Ukraine and what is the depth and what about balance.

ZELENSKY (through translator): The issue is of the financial volatile, guaranties, about signals. These are investments or financial volatiles

which are provided by debt of this country. We would like to understand how it works. We work with the leaders of some countries, of the United States,

of Canada, and Canada offered us $120 million. I think that tranche will give us an answer, and the United States as well.

And it will provide us with tenfold amount of money. I cannot tell you what support. We spoke with the European Union. We received macro financial

assistance. We agreed about 1.2 billion in euros, and some are separate money. We speak about signals from different countries, from the United

States, from the European Union, from Canada, from all our partners and friends. And I believe that in order to stabilize our economy, we will

spend around $4 billion, $5 billion.

I cannot think about a lower figure, but the issue is not in the amount of money. The issue is with the stability of the Ukrainian economy. For

example, International Monetary Fund, they have a program in the amount of $2 billion, and we expect the provision of some tranches. CNN, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thank you very much. In your conversation with President Biden, what do you require most, and what don't

you get in order to restrain Russia and to oppose Russia? What you do not receive?

ZELENSKY (through translator): Thank you for your question. I have a good face memory. I think we have been at some other conference. I think that

you saw our people. We have seen that we have courageous people and we strive for peace, but at the same time, I'm not just the president. I am a

father, I am a son, I am a husband. We have people who we have to protect, our families.

That's why I discuss in such details these issues with the President Biden in order to have a similar understanding. You have your own state, but I

want you to understand us and to understand all those risks. That's why the issues which we discussed not for the first time with the president, what

are the sanctions after? It's not the questions just to the president of the United States.

I don't have some separate questions to him. Many other countries speak about specific things which can be done beforehand in order to prevent the

probable escalation of aggression from Russia. We speak about the guarantee of security. We have to discuss this issue of NATO. I know that this issue

is not liked by some NATO member states, but I would like to know on what we can rely upon.

The second issue is the level of our -- despite the issue of membership into NATO, which is a not dependent among us, we definitely have to develop

our army.

[10:20:14]

We have to protect ourselves, and we understand definitely that there if there's nobody to defend us, we have to defend ourselves. When we protect

ourselves face-to-face with the very complicated country, we ask what are sanctions afterwards? To whom -- are they related to Ukraine? No,

unfortunately not. I don't know what will happen next. There will be full- scale war tomorrow, then why we need sanctions after is -- saw these sanctions are not just in favor of our country.

It is about restraining, first aggression. The countries of the European Union. But it's impossible. We have lost 15,000 lives protecting our state.

And I think it's unjust. That's why I speak about it. Just tell us the reasons. Yes, we are not NATO members, we'll never be (INAUDIBLE). Some

members of NATO speak about it, some are afraid to speak about. They come to us and they say that we'll support you. Definitely support you. And

others say that if -- other countries support you, then we'll support you. Let's be frank.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just wait for your mike please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Mr. President, you thanked the U.K. government for the supply of little weapon. What would you say about the

fact that the United Kingdom is the center of building up Russian money. What the British government should do in this issue?

ZELENSKY (through translator): I think that the people and the money which are laundered in London -- not just in the capital, they are laundered in

all the capitals where there is expensive real estate, businesses to which historically large amounts of money were sent not just from Russia, but

from the countries of the former Soviet Union. It (INAUDIBLE) also to Ukraine, to Bulgaria, to Kazakhstan -- I don't want to offend anybody.

Yet in all those countries, there are oligarch. This is a debate of which appeared in the history of the first Soviet live, after the Soviet Union

collapsed and the countries became independent. And in addition to the independence, the countries received -- obtained their independence, but

they also obtained oligarchs, and I will tell you frankly they actively fight with this process in the Ukraine. And we have not bad results.

And I will tell you that we have some other risk of higher priority. If not for this military escalations, this would be my priority number one, in

addition to fight with oligarchs. But I don't understand completely how I can help London saying that this is a question of the internal nature, and

I think that this is internal decisions of the U.K. government.

[10:25:09]

I just can't say that when we'll get rid of our oligarchs. We can share our experience with other countries. CBS News, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I would like to come back to the first response. If you speak about the Russian threat, what do you know,

which is not known by the President Biden?

ZELENSKY (through translator): Thank you for your question. What do we know that Mr. Biden doesn't know? I believe that I, as the president of an

independent country, can have my own secrets as Mr. Biden has. We have quite an open relationship, and our Secret Services, they exchange

information, but you keep a hand on the pulse. You see where troops are withdrawn or where they are built up.

We see how sabotage is working, how they work on the territory of Donbass, or the territory which is controlled by our forces, and we see it as they

operate in their (INAUDIBLE), and we deal with this danger, with the assistance of our partners. If you look at the information from the

satellite, surveillance, so you can see the buildup of troops, but you cannot assess whether it's the threat, whether it is attack, or is it a

rotation of troops.

And our specialists they see how they put up tents to show that several brigades come to the border, but then we discover that there is nobody in

those tents. So there is psychological pressure and threatening from Russia. And it happens before any mission in Normandy, former Minsk, and

they build up psychological pressure making high risk. And we definitely understand this.

You know, you remember when we had the (INAUDIBLE) of the troops present in 2021, and on the week we had some signals from our partners from the

European countries that Russia started withdrawing its troops. And we had some confirmations from other media, from our services and our people saw

that they did not actually withdrew. They took several steps back and then they came back.

They needed for their internal consumer for mass media in order to show that exercise is finished and nobody threatens nobody. But it was just a

show, we understand such details and such things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Sky News.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There are some people who suspect that you diminish the effort in order to strengthen your economy, and

Americans still believe that the war could start.

ZELENSKY (through translator): It's quite strange that I'm suspected. I believe that I have nothing in my life to be suspected that you may be

mistaking me for another president of Ukraine.

[10:30:08]

First of all I think about serving people, and I think about the economy, and for me the issue of escalation is as acute as for the United States and

for our partner countries. I don't govern the state as in your movie "Don't Look Up." We look up. We understand exactly what is happening. We speak

about it with our people, but we in this situation live for eight years. That's why we have to look not just up but down as well.

And we live in a very important time when we can move the economy of our country, but the probability of the aggression doesn't disappear. In 2020,

it was lowered. In 2019, it was still lower. The day before when we had the meeting of the advisers in Normandy format, it was important that it was

very serious. But I believe that these are all steps for the dialogue for peaceful settlement of this country.

And we should be very careful and expressing every day, every minute, every second the thought that a war would start tomorrow. We cannot say that war

will start tomorrow or by the end of February or by the end of the year. Then will (INAUDIBLE) led with the new year. And now we receive information

that the war will start in January or February. I can say that it could start, but let's make -- put down three dots, not the full stop.

We have brave people and courageous people have to protect its country and work and educate and bring up their children because that's life. ABC News.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Mr. President, we see what Russians do, how they build up their troops on the Ukrainian border. How do -- what

will you do when you see it as a direct threat from Russia? What have you do?

ZELENSKY (through translator): We have to do without panic. We have a powerful army. We have to arm our armed forces. They have -- not

everything, but they were armed to the possible level. If we have powerful economy, we'll be able to give more weapons and to increase payments to our

servicemen and servicewoman because they give their most precious thing they have, their lives.

They have lost 15,000 lives, and we completely trust our army. They are not novices. They are veterans. And if it's big about the NATO level, NATO

standard army, I will say that we are on the same level because they have practiced, they fought in the war. They buried their friends.

[10:35:01]

But they protected their country. They shoot and they killed. Unfortunately, this is the state of things. They demonstrated that trend in

Afghanistan. They haven't lost person in Afghanistan and they helped of evacuating thousands. They have high moral spirits and of our people who

will protect the country in case of war but today we have to work for the economy of our country and to work for our army, which is ready to protect

the country. BBC.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thank you very much, Mr. President. I would like to understand that it's a long-standing conflict. The Russian

is also a long-standing. How do you estimate it? And take into account that the Russian federation definitely demanded that Ukraine cannot be -- cannot

acquire the membership in NATO, how do you think -- could Ukraine become a NATO member?

ZELENSKY (through translator): A hybrid war, there's hybrid threat to Ukraine and to other countries. We are not the only neighbor of the Russian

federation, and we are not the only country which has occupied territories. If we have a war, it would not be war with Ukraine or in the territory of

our country. It will be a hybrid war, it will be informational war, cyberattacks, and we see the source of those attacks, and all other things.

We are already waging this war. And we speak about the war which have the results not just in shooting. Today we have a different kind of war. We are

over here, and we learn how to protect that ourselves, and we receive your assistance, and we are grateful to it, but we have a constant clear danger.

May be hybrid, as I told you. There may be some act when somebody will throw a grenade or explode something, blast something, there could be

different things.

I don't remember how many Web sites have crashed, but we nevertheless learned how to protect us. We live in this regime. And if we take global

issues, and we protect the lives of people, then we erase this issue of NATO membership. It's not the desire to help protection from other

countries, if the war starts. These are the preventive (INAUDIBLE) about what I spoke, what is not. Is it war? No, it's sanctions.

We have to find some preventive sanctions. NATO is one of such sanctions. And if it's not NATO show us security guarantees. Look at one (INAUDIBLE).

We listen to a powerful voice from Germany which says in diplomatic language that if today and tomorrow there will be aggression from Russia,

then Putin will stop speak about the Nord Stream 2.

[10:40:13]

Why I mentioned this. When we discuss this issue before, that if the Nord Stream 2 is launched, then Ukraine should receive economic safety or

security, warranties, and we discussed what could be the nature of these that could be a guaranteed gas transit for 10 or 15 years. And we should

receive also the guarantee together so gas transportation from our European partners, but look how the rhetoric is changing rapidly.

Nobody is speaking about the economic security of our state. We speak about the gas transit, and this is the same hybrid war. I understand that

everybody has his own challenges and interests, but I would like to participate in the challenges of other countries. That's why when we join

NATO, it depends not upon Ukraine. It's another question to me. It's a request.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Mr. President, from Australia. Of what NATO partners, including Australia, can do to assist Ukraine at this

moment? NATO partners and Australia, what they can do to help more to Ukraine.

ZELENSKY (through translator): Thank you for your question. First of all, I would like to say that we are grateful for the support, and what I was

speaking about, the financial, we don't think that we require some credits alone but we need some signals which will facilitate investments into the

country. If businesses and other countries would like to support us to be a friendly and powerful partner then this business will come.

Even if it does (INAUDIBLE) 10 percent, 15 percent, 25 percent, 100 percent of profit, that profit will be in their attitude towards Ukraine and if

will speak about other partners, we welcome them. Please invest into our country, please show that you support Ukraine and that you are sure in

Ukraine. And if you speak about NATO, I don't want to speak in my answer, each of my answers about that, but we don't hear any answer, suggestions,

and if other countries are ready to propose any other more than this in terms of the security and safety of our country, and these very difficult

moment, we are ready to conclude such agreements, and we welcome them, it's very important.

And I would like to tell you about NATO and I deviated. The NATO countries what will they do -- sorry for this example. We today found ourself in this

complicated situation. That's why you all come here.

[10:45:04]

In case of war, please tell me what army or what country is ready to protect us? No. No. It will not happen. It's very frightful (INAUDIBLE).

Because if Ukraine joins NATO, and something happens, you will have to protect. And these are very serious challenges for NATO, but I must tell

you that this is the way of thinking of certain European countries, they don't have to risk and not to admit Ukraine, but if the full-scale war

starts, then it would be carried out on the borders of some NATO countries definitely.

And there could be provocations, seize, conquer some of them. Also where the republics of the former Soviet Union. And I am certain that this

moment, these are small countries, say that we have war with very serious army. Are you certain that they will be protected or defended, or more

precise, that some people are ready to die for their independence?

ANDERSON: Here we go. Well, Ukraine's president briefing reporters after his phone call Thursday with the U.S. president. A phone call that a

Ukrainian official had said did not go well. Well, we have heard from the horse's mouth, as it were. And this is how it goes, calm down. I know more

about what is going on here than you do, Mr. President. I'm paraphrased him here, folks, but that is the gist of what Ukrainian President Volodymyr

Zelensky said he told the U.S. President Joe Biden in that phone call on Thursday.

These are remarkably frank words from Zelensky. To all intents and purposes, accusing the U.S. president for making things worse, not better

at present. We are not panicking, he said. Things are no more intense than in early 2021, he said. And he blamed the media for also making the

situation worse.

He said there is a cost to this panic, this talk of an imminent attack. He said the Ukrainian economy has tanked since this uptick in rhetoric that we

are on the brink of war. He cited these numbers last year, he said Ukraine had a record GDP, $6 billion worth of new investment since the beginning of

the year.

The lack of a balanced narrative, and I want to discuss his term here with my colleague shortly, but he said a lack of a balanced narrative about what

is going on with regard to Russia and Ukraine on that order has cost $20 billion worth of outflows from his country.

Well, he said an awful lot more, but that is ultimately the gist of what we got out, of what was, you know, a good half an hour of the Ukrainian

president speaking to and briefing reporters in Kyiv.

That is where Sam Kiley is standing by. He's in Kyiv, in Ukraine. Nic Robertson is in Moscow, and Alex Marquardt is in Washington.

I just want to get your perspective and your sense, all of you, from what we have just heard starting off with you, Sam, in Kyiv.

KILEY: Well, Becky, I think if you analyze what he's saying, and he's continuing to say it, it's consistent with the messaging that he'd been

making before this phone call. They were rattled here in Ukraine by the American, Australian, Canadian, British and German announcements from the

embassies that they were downsizing the size of their embassies, sending dependents home.

They were very upset by the use of the term imminent threat of a Russian invasion. Had asked in public what clearly it would appear the president

then asked personally of the U.S. president, which is to dial down on that rhetoric to calm nerves. Now on first reading, that could be kind of an

effort to calm a population ahead of something much worse. Well, he was asked by one in fact, by Matthew Chance, you know, what do you know that

the U.S. don't. But at the same time, he's also, I think, warning against the success of hybrid warfare.

[10:50:04]

This fits very much the Russian agenda. If you can cause a run on the markets, if you can cause capital fly from Ukraine, if you can economically

disable it, you're well on the way to what looks like victory. And from the Russians, victory at the very least is chaos in the ranks of your rivals or

enemies. So I think what he's saying, really, with all of this is that we need to cool our nerve and remain calm, and not see our economy at very

little cost to Russia start to go into downfall because that exactly what the Kremlin is seeking.

That said of course he's also asking for increased weapons supplies. He's also right at the end of that press conference I think very importantly

saying that if there is total war here in the Ukraine, it's going to rub right up against a former Soviet bloc, eastern countries, I think he really

referred to Poland and the Baltic states, that where, you know, our people there are going to be prepared to defend their freedoms, hinting perhaps

that the Russians may have ambitions beyond Ukraine. So he's on the one hand appealing for calm, suggesting he's out of step with the U.S.

president, on the other hand warning the Europeans that they could face something really catastrophic, Becky.

ANDERSON: Fascinating this perspective laid out on what is known as hybrid warfare that you just very eloquently laid out. I mean, the idea of

creating chaos in the ranks of your rivals or enemies. It is important here, and it's really important that you underlined that in having listened

to the Ukrainian president.

Sam, stand by. I want to bring in Nic Robertson in here who is in Moscow.

You were listening in. What do you make of what you heard, Nic?

ROBERTSON: Yes, I'm sort of -- I was just making a point before the press conference started. And it's certainly pursuant to the narrative that

Zelensky is pushing back on U.S. pressure. The U.S. is ramping up pressure on him to accept that there could be a very tough outcome. And he's pushing

back and saying, no, that's sort of exactly what's going to make it easier for Russia to achieve its goals.

But here in Moscow, the perspective is very much that it's the United States that can put pressure on Kyiv to do what it wants. I'm linking in a

couple of things that have happened here today because I -- you know, we can't overplay a few words in press releases or press conferences. But we

heard today President Putin speaking with President Macron, and one of the lines from the readout from the Kremlin was that on the issue of Ukraine in

joining NATO, what Russia is looking for, and this line is important, is not a permanent guarantee.

It's a long-term guarantee that Ukraine can't join NATO. That's sort of opens a door to some diplomacy there. And if you listen to what President

Zelensky was saying there about the North Stream 2 pipeline in Germany, of course Nord Stream 1 flows through Ukraine, Ukraine gets revenue from that,

and what's talking about in Nord Stream 2 bypasses Ukraine. He's looking for, that's going to be fine as long as we can get some royalties from that

for 10 or 15 years to come.

You know, there are pieces on the chessboard here, and it's a big chessboard and the pieces don't add up to much yet, but we're getting in

the realm of what the things that can come together to make a diplomatic deal look like, they're solutions where they can't push down the road 10 or

15 years, economically for Ukraine. So perhaps it doesn't have to join NATO immediately because it's got some economic security coming in, that it was

going to be denied and felt by Russia previously.

Guarantees that for medium term, Ukraine won't join NATO. Not that they can't but just in the medium term. We're getting into that kind of

territory. It's too soon because we haven't heard from President Putin yet on his decision, but there's bits and pieces out there for the diplomats to

work with.

ANDERSON: It may not be new, Alex, that the Ukrainian president is appealing for calm. And both Sam and Nic have pointed out that, you know,

we have been hearing this consistently from Volodymyr Zelensky, but to have underlined that in such a sort of public setting in front of the world's

media, and for him to have sketched out, to a certain extent, how he's dealing with the U.S. president at this point, telling him not to panic,

telling the U.S. president he knows more about what is happening on the ground than Joe Biden does.

I just wonder how this is going to go down at the White House. And I know that you've also got some response to some choice words by the U.S.

ambassador to Russia earlier on, sir.

[10:55:09]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Becky, I think there is both frustration and understanding here in Washington. I

mean, this is the biggest division that we've seen in this crisis between Kyiv and Washington, between President Zelensky and Biden. And the Biden

administration is very keen to portray this relationship as one of mutual understanding, that they're very much on the same page.

You know, we're not necessarily seeing any divisions over what they're seeing in terms of intelligence. There's all kinds of intelligence sharing.

They agree on, you know, the Russian positioning of troops, and that kind of thing. It's really about the intent. And so there is a bit of bafflement

here in Washington over the fact that someone like President Zelensky can downplay the prospect of what the Biden administration considers a possibly

imminent invasion given the fact that there are more than 100,000 Russian troops on the border.

But at the same time there is an understanding that Zelensky has to essentially serve two audiences. He needs to show enough concern and get

along well enough with the Americans to be able to get the economic and military support that he needs to defend himself against the Russians and

now we've seen, you know, another recent delivery of American defensive weaponry to Ukraine, and promises by the Biden administration that that

will continue and grow certainly in the event of an invasion.

At the same time Washington understands that Zelensky does not want to rattle and panic his population, for all the reasons that you, Sam and Nic

have just been listening to, primarily economic reasons. So the Biden administration following that phone call last night with President

Zelensky, they put a readout that was much more calm, if you will, and talking about, you know, the assurances that the U.S. has given, that they

will always have Ukraine's back, that they will continue to support them, that they will not make any decisions about Ukraine without Ukraine in the

room.

But, Becky, there's no sign that the Biden administration is going to stop talking about how they feel that there could be an attack at any moment. We

did hear from the U.S. ambassador to Moscow today speaking with reporters, saying that despite these assurances that they're hearing from Moscow, that

Moscow doesn't -- that Russia's intent to invade Ukraine, that essentially the facts on the ground belie that.

That there's every indication from the facts on the ground that Russia will -- that Russia could very quickly invade Ukraine. This is something that

Biden told Zelensky on the call apparently that, you know, could come in February. It's not certain but could come. And the ambassador to Moscow

again warning today of those massive economic and trade consequences for Russia if they chose to do that -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Alex, appreciate it. Thank you. Your analysis is so important.

Sam, Nic, to you both, we're going to take a very, very short break. You will be back with me after this. Don't go away, folks.

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