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Ukraine to Declare State of Emergency, Russia Pulling Diplomatic Staff from Kyiv; CNN On the Ground Near Front Line in Donetsk; Ukrainian Foreign Minister Speaks to U.N. General Assembly; Interview with Latvian Prime Minister Krisjanis Karinsj on Russia's "Invasion" and Germany's Decision to Halt Nord Stream 2. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired February 23, 2022 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Well, it is 7:00 pm here in Abu Dhabi, 10:00 am in New York, where we are standing by for the Ukrainian
foreign minister to address the United Nations General Assembly.
I'm Becky Anderson. Hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD.
This hour, Ukraine set to declare a month-long state of emergency. And Russia pulling its diplomatic staff from Kyiv as Russia's president fends
off new global sanctions with fiery rhetoric about his nation's weapons.
Vladimir Putin attending a wreath-laying ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier in Moscow and speaking on defending the Fatherland Day in
Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): We have weapons that have no equal in the world put on combat standby duty.
We will continue to develop promising weapons systems, including hypersonic weapons and based on new physical principles, as well as expand the use of
advanced digital technologies and elements of artificial intelligence.
Such complexes are indeed the weapons of the future, which significantly increase the combat potential of our armed forces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: There is no visual proof yet that Russian troops, deployed along the border, have actually entered Eastern Ukraine. But new satellite photos
show Russia has added military infrastructure, including a field hospital.
Well, the U.S., E.U. and U.K. announcing new sanctions on Russia and promising more. We'll have more on that and global market reaction later in
this newscast.
CNN's Sam Kiley is on the ground very near that front line, in the Donbas region, in a town that had been a sight of relentless shelling in the last
two days. He shows us now how much damage a single artillery shell can do.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: About 500 meters in that direction is the front line, effectively. On the other side of that,
in the other part of the Donetsk oblast, are the Russian-backed separatists, possibly now supported with formerly recognized Russian
troops.
But in the last 48 hours, this town has been the scene of intense shelling. It has been the scene of at least one killing, a chap called Roman, who was
killed about 100 meters in that direction during a volley of fire that resulted here, the damage you can see, to a family's home.
Now this is a family and there -- I don't know if you can hear it but there was another shell landing in the distance there. It has been a steady
drumbeat, a kind of relentless thunder all day of shelling.
This one happened 48 hours ago. Mercifully, nobody was actually killed, which is, frankly, a miracle. Irayna (ph) and her daughter, Veronika (ph),
were actually hiding in here, in the kitchen. It's an outside kitchen. You can see the shrapnel blows -- strikes, rather -- that have torn into the
building. Didn't go through the walls.
Now take a look at what the sort of damage you can get when a single artillery shell hits a civilian home. That effectively is the exit wound.
That is the consequence. And there was another shell I just heard landing. These shells that are landing, they're not near us, they're about a half a
mile away.
This is a shell that has blown out the far side, that is the exit wound to a home. But when you see what high explosives can do when fired into a
civilian environment, it is quite terrifying.
Now earlier on, we were advised not to go upstairs but I think, having checked it out, I'm going to take the risk because it really is worth
showing just how horrific the results of a single shell can be.
These were stud walls; all gone. The structure is very wobbly. There is a limited amount of masonry holding this place together; the family study and
this is the bedroom of a 9-year-old. This is the bedroom of Veronika (ph). Luckily she was in the kitchen, lying on the floor, when these shells
landed.
But it could have been so much worse. Truly, almost a miraculous survival.
[10:05:00]
KILEY: All of the everyday manifestations of a young child's life being torn to pieces, utterly shredded. It is absolutely extraordinary that this
could have been done by a single artillery shell.
There were four that landed in this town; part of an exchange of fire, some locals have said; others are claiming that it is just the worst level of
shelling that they have seen in many years, not since 2014, which is when this war was started.
And, indeed, this town actually fell then to the Russian-backed rebels. And the Russian-backed rebels are saying, with Putin's agreement, that this
territory is part of the land that they claim. They're not yet on it.
This territory where I'm standing is still controlled by the government, by government forces. They're here on the ground, many of them in a fairly
covert environment, apart from those that are holding those already established front lines.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, that's Sam Kiley, reporting on the ground there. Let's just get the very latest for you.
Within the last few minutes we have learned websites for Ukraine's parliament, for its foreign ministry, cabinet and security service are all
down. The cause not yet known. Before we get you to our correspondents on the ground, let's get to Antonio Guterres, secretary-general of the U.N.,
who is speaking at U.N. headquarters. Let's listen.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
ANTONIO GUTERRES, UNITED NATIONS SECRETARY-GENERAL: -- the most serious global peace and security crisis in recent years and certainly in my time
as secretary-general.
Our world is facing a moment of peril. I truly hoped it would not come. The latest developments regarding Ukraine are a cause of grave concern. And
they include reports of increased cease-fire violations across the contact line and the real risk of further escalation on the ground.
My thoughts are with all those who have already suffered so much death, destruction and displacement.
The history of this conflict is complex. And at least two permanently (ph) opposing narratives. I know that their authors will never agree what
happened in the past.
But in the present situation, one thing is clear: the decision of the Russian Federation to recognize the so-called independence of the Donetsk
and Luhansk regions and the follow-up are violations of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine and inconsistent with the principles
of the charter of the United Nations.
And here in this hallowed hall, I must emphasize that this action is also inconsistent with the landmark resolution adopted by the General Assembly
more than half a century ago. I refer to the declaration on principles of international law concerning friendly relations and cooperation among
states in accordance with the charter of the United Nations.
The so-called Friendly Relations Declaration was a lot to do with the General Assembly session marking the 25th anniversary of the United Nations
and the Friendly Relations Declaration, which has been cited repeatedly by the International Court of Justice as representing international law, sets
out several vital principles that are highly relevant to today's session.
In particular, I would note the principle of sovereign equality of states and the affirmation that the territorial integrity and political
independence of the states are inviolable.
Other resolutions of the General Assembly are also fully behind the sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine,
within its internationally recognized borders.
Mr. President, the Minsk agreements approved by the Security Council and that I strongly supported from the beginning were surviving during (ph)
intensive care units, thanks to a number of life support devices. But now those devices have been disconnected.
We must also be concerned about preserving the integrity of peacekeeping. United Nations is a long and recognized experience deploying peacekeeping
operations, which only take place with the consent of the host country.
Mr. President, it is time for restraint, reason and de-escalation. There is no place for actions and statements that will take this dangerous situation
over the abyss. It is time to establish a cease-fire and return to the passive dialogue and negotiations to save the people in Ukraine and beyond
from the scourge of war.
I urge all parties to make full use of Article 33 of the charter and its diverse instruments of specific settlements of disputes. Mr. President, the
United Nations system is continuing to support the people in Ukraine through our human rights and humanitarian work.
[10:10:00]
GUTERRES: Our human rights monitoring mission has seven offices throughout the country, on both sides of the contact line, documenting civilian
casualties, monitoring freedom of movement and reporting on allegations of human rights violations.
Our humanitarian operations are independent of whoever might control the territory where people are living.
Even before this latest escalation, 2 million people in Ukraine needed humanitarian assistance. And since the start of 2022 alone, we and our
partners have delivered 140 metric tons of lifesaving aid across the contact line.
Here again, our actions are based entirely on humanitarian principles endorsed by the General Assembly. United Nations humanitarian assistance is
guided by four humanitarian principles: humanity, neutrality, impartiality and independence.
And these priorities are central to establishing and maintaining access to affected people, including those in the context of an armed conflict. The
General Assembly has repeatedly underscored the importance of promoting and respecting these principles within the framework of humanitarian
assistance.
Our humanitarian agencies are committing to staying and delivering to support the people in Ukraine and are ready to readjust and reprioritize
their operations as necessary.
As we said, we know all too well in conflict, civilians, including women and children, always suffer first and suffer most. If the conflict in
Ukraine expands, the world would see a scale of severity, of need unseen for many years.
I urge all sides to allow safe and unimpeded access by humanitarian agencies, including in nongovernment controlled areas of Eastern Ukraine.
All parties must uphold their obligations and international humanitarian law.
Mr. President, I am fully committed to support all efforts to resolve this crisis without further bloodshed. My good offices remain available. We
cannot and will not relent in the search for a peaceful solution. Thank you.
ABDULLA SHAHID, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY: I thank the secretary-general for his statement.
I now give the floor to the distinguished foreign minister, His Excellency Dmytro Kuleba, Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine.
DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Secretary-general, I'm grateful for your leadership in this main policymaking and representative organ of
the United Nations.
Mr. President, you have chosen the word "hope" as the model for your presidency. The same feeling currently dominates the mindsets of Ukrainians
and people around the globe, hope for peace, hope for common sense to prevail, hope for diplomacy to ease tensions.
However, today we need much more than hope. We need swift, concrete and resolute actions, a new type of actions by the United Nations and
international community, which is relevant to the level of the threat we all, not just Ukraine, face today because of Russia's aggressive course.
The people of Ukraine need these actions by Ukraine's strategic partners and international community. We are at a critical juncture in world history
and our actions today define it for decades to come.
We all read history books; we all watched movies about the mistake politicians made in the run-up to 1914 and 1939, about defeats of our
grandparents and a catastrophic price at which a revanchist evil in Europe was defeated.
There is no more important task today than to not repeat the mistakes of the past. I do believe in the power of the free world and our joint ability
to avert a new devastating catastrophe in Europe that no nation will be able to sit out.
[10:15:00]
KULEBA: This is why today I address you on behalf of over 40 millions of Ukrainians, who only wish to live in peace and prosperity; not in fear,
intimidation; not under Russian fire, bombs and shelling.
We are currently at the middle of the largest security crisis in Europe since the Second World War. This crisis was created and is being escalated
by one side unilaterally, by the Russian Federation.
Russia's accusations of Ukraine are absurd. Ukraine has never threatened or attacked anyone. Ukraine has never planned and does not plan any such
action. Ukraine has never planned and does not plan any military offensive in the Donbas, neither any provocations or acts of sabotage.
It is ultimately absurd to suggest that Ukraine could have prepared for anything like this and waited for months, until Russia amassed an enormous
military force along our borders, to proceed with such large plans. This absurdity defies basic logic.
Not less absurd are accusations of Ukraine escalating by acquiring defensive weapons from its partners. The only -- I want to stress it -- the
only reason for Ukraine to boost its defenses is Russia's ongoing and planned military and political actions.
Russia's actions and statements are outrageous, horrific and go far beyond threatening Ukraine. In fact, in his address this week, Russian president
Vladimir Putin overtly denied Ukraine's right to exist.
Anyway, anyone who might think I exaggerate as the Ukrainian foreign minister should just watch this horrifying speech. It is with a heavy heart
that we all need to admit the grim reality of a new aggressive and revanchist rule rising over Europe.
This is the fourth (ph) time that the General Assembly debates this situation in the temporarily occupied territory of Ukraine. However, this
is the first time we debate the situation in the new reality, created by the illegal recognition of two territories of Ukraine by Russia.
And the backdrop of our discussion today is much more dangerous, as Russia attacked the very fundamental principles of international peace and
security, the pillars of the United Nations and, as I mentioned, the very existence of the Ukrainian state, a founding member of the United Nations.
Ukraine that signed the U.N. Charter in San Francisco in 1945 and made a principle enshrined in Article two of the charter, a cornerstone of its
foreign policy, a state that voluntarily gave up its nuclear arsenal under the security assurances of nuclear powers, a state that has endured years
of assault by one of these powers, a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council.
Two days ago, on February 21st, the Russian president recognized so-called independence of the temporarily occupied parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk
regions of Ukraine and ordered the deployment of the Russian armed forces in these areas.
This is an on-front (ph) attack on the United Nations and core principles of international law, an ultimate blow to years of peace process and
Russia's unilateral withdrawal from the Minsk agreements.
What is happening right now in Eastern Ukraine, where Russian tanks are rolling in, and along the Ukrainian borders, where Russian forces are
amassed in enormous quantities, must be a concern for everyone, for all of you.
I warn every nation in this distinguished chamber, no one will be able to sit out this crisis if President Putin decides that he can move forward
with his aggression against Ukraine. Your governments and your people will face painful consequences together with our government and our people.
This is why we need to use this last chance for action and stop Russia where it is.
[10:20:00]
KULEBA: It is clear that President Putin will not stop by himself. Distinguished representatives, the beginning of a large-scale war in
Ukraine will be the end of the world order as we know it.
If Russia does not get a severe, swift and decisive response now, this will mean a total bankruptcy of the international security system and
international institutions, which are tasked with maintaining the global security order.
This is a grim scenario, which will throw us back to the darkest times of the 20th century. Russia will not stop at Ukraine.
If a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council succeeds in breaking literally all rules, other actors will be inspired by him and follow his
pattern. What he tries to do now is to prove that the United Nations are weak, indecisive and unable to defend their core principles; that rules do
not apply to him, to Russia, to Putin.
What role for the United Nations does Russia see?
A new league of nations. We must deny Russia what it wants. I graduated from the university with a degree in international law and strong belief in
multilateralism. Many years after practicing diplomacy, I still do believe in both rules containing aggression and the power of our collective and
firm action.
If the United States -- sorry, the United Nations make appeal now to become a strong and proactive player, which is not afraid of resolute actions and
using all of its might and powers, I am confident that Russia will stop.
In this context, I welcome yesterday's statement by the United Nations secretary-general, which is truly different in tone. We need decisive
actions of the same kind to follow these right (ph) words.
Russia shows signs of readiness to further escalate its aggression against Ukraine and we have limited time to stop, deter and contain it. Every hour
of inaction now is a threat to the lives of Ukrainians, not only military but also civilians, including women and children.
This is an escalating threat to our collective global security and to our freedom. Ukraine expects decisive, immediate and proportional actions by
the international community.
The United Nations is the organization that has to demonstrate leadership - - not just condemnations, concrete actions to stop the Russian machine of war without stepping into bloody conflict with many thousands of
casualties, devastation and suffering.
I do not want this. Ukraine doesn't want this. The world doesn't want this. We need your help, right now, to stop Russia from proceeding with its
aggressive plans. Ukraine believes in diplomacy. We see no alternative to peaceful solutions by political and diplomatic means.
There is still an opportunity for diplomacy to say its word, even as Russia continues its escalation and provocations. For months, Russia pretended to
pursue diplomacy while bringing more and more troops to our borders and in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine.
Now this number stands at least at 150,000. Under the OECD Vienna document on confidence and security building measures, such actions fall under the
qualification of unusual military activity that would require explanation.
However, Russia has persistently refused to provide it. Instead, it proceeded with threats. Russia has literally stuffed the Black Sea and the
Sea of Azov with at least 46 military vessels. It routinely closes large parts of the seas under the pretext of holding naval exercises.
In practice, it amounts almost to a blockade of Ukrainian seaports. This is already an attack on the global freedom of navigation, one of the sacred
principles of international law.
[10:25:00]
KULEBA: Russia's propaganda machine is in full swing. It desperately tries to create a pretext to fulfill the aggression against Ukraine. We
resolutely reject all Russian insinuations about any Ukrainian offensive military operations in Donbas. We do not hold or plan any such actions.
We remain committed to political and diplomatic settlement and, together with our partners, we maximize efforts to reduce tensions and keep the
situation in line with diplomatic dialogue.
For now, we see that the Russian occupation forces have already significantly increased shelling of Ukrainian territory and civilian
infrastructure. Artillery fire at the contact line in the Donbas, from the occupied territory, hit a kindergarten in a town called Stanytsia Luhanska
and a school in Vrubivka among the latest terrible examples.
Recognition of the so-called republics has no legal implications; it merely confirms Russia's own involvement as a party to the armed conflict in
Donbas, which Russia vehemently denied all these years.
The situation in the occupied Donbas has already been terrible for years, with residents living in the atmosphere of fear, lawlessness and
insecurity. The infamous secret prison called Izolyatsia in the occupied Donetsk remains inaccessible for human rights and humanitarian missions.
It continues to function as a literal concentration camp in Europe, in the 21st century. Hundreds of people have passed through this camp and were
subjected to heavy forced labor, humiliation, tortures; cases of extrajudicial killings have been reported, too.
Russia continues to block the release of the illegally detained persons. In September 2029 (sic), the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, handed
over to the secretary-general the list of more than 100 Ukrainians from Donbas and Crimea, who had been unlawfully detained, sentenced or even
transferred from the occupied territories to the Russian Federation.
We reiterate our call on the secretary-general to provide good offices and facilitate their immediate release. And I appreciate the readiness of the
secretary-general to do so.
Mr. President, today, Ukraine defends not only global security but freedom, democracy and fundamental principles of international law. Peaceful life
and the future of millions of people in Europe and around the globe rely on the rules that Russia tries to destroy.
Diplomacy and international forum must prevail and stop the Russian aggression. Since 2014, the General Assembly has already adopted 11
resolutions, reaffirming its commitment to Ukraine's territorial integrity and condemning the temporary occupation of Ukraine's territories by Russia.
The General Assembly has not and will not accept the Russian mantra that "the case of Crimea is closed," end of quote. The occupying power persists
in destroying the identity of Ukrainians and the indigenous people of the peninsula, the Crimean Tatars.
Since 2014, more than 64,000 Ukrainian citizens have had to leave Crimea and move to mainland Ukraine due to fear, persecution for political and
human rights activism, discrimination on ethnic and religious grounds.
Political persecutions continue unabated. Among many others, Mr. Nariman Dzhelyalov, the deputy head (ph) of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people,
participant of the international Crimea platform summit, remains behind bars.
He's one of the -- of this one -- more than 100 political prisoners of the Kremlin. On February 16th, a court in Simferopol sentenced journalist
Vladislav Yesipenko on trumped-up charges to six years in prison.
[10:30:00]
KULEBA: He's one of 14 Ukrainian journalists kept by Russians in prison. Russia may continue to pretend it doesn't violate any international norms
and principles.
Yet reports by the U.N. Secretary-General Office of the High Commission of Human Rights, OEC, their missions, as well as the report of the
International Criminal Court prosecutor, all testified to the contrary.
If Russia doesn't agree with all the mentioned resolutions and reports, it should simply provide access to Crimea, to the United Nations human rights
monitoring mission in Ukraine and the OEC special monitoring mission.
The access of international organizations to the occupied territories is critical. Ukraine guarantees such success throughout the government-
controlled territory and continues to demand from the Russian side to do the same in the occupied territories.
Esteemed members of the General Assembly, the whole world witnesses today that Russia turns to threatening and blackmailing the global community to
"close the Crimea case," end of quote.
It is, in fact, one of the points in the long list of its recent so-called security demands. Ukraine continues efforts to achieve the occupation of
Crimea by peaceful means. The Crimea platform is a tool designed exactly for that end.
We are truly thankful to all the countries supporting the international Crimea platform. Your active involvement in the platform is a sound
foundation for our future success. We are open to new members and I call on you to join the Crimea platform; be it states or international
organizations, you are welcome.
We expect the United Nations will find proper modalities to engage with this initiative, established on the principles of the U.N. Charter.
Mr. President, dear colleagues, Ukraine made a historic contribution to global security. In 1994, we denuclearized, giving up the world's third
largest nuclear arsenal. We have no plans to regain nuclear weapons. Today we expect the world reciprocally to ensure our security with relevant scale
and resoluteness of actions in face of a historic level of threat.
This is the reason why Ukraine requested urgent consultations under Article Six of the Budapest memorandum. The world owes Ukraine its security. The
Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, initiated a new format of negotiations to settle the security crisis created by Russia.
Five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council plus Ukraine, Germany and Turkey, this is the format that we're trying to convene. I
reaffirm that Ukraine proposed, some years ago, to deploy a U.N. peacekeeping mission to Ukraine. And until now, United Nations Security
Council has failed to take necessary decisions.
Ukraine proposes to combine stark sanctions policy and strengthening of Ukraine, together with keeping diplomatic channels open, to persuade (ph)
Russia to de-escalate and prioritize diplomacy.
We urge member states to use all available means to protect Ukraine and deter Russia. Whatever action you can take is appreciated. We are grateful
for the actions already taken by many of you. We expect the international community to do its best to put out the fire in the center of Europe, which
is about to flare up.
The Russian security crisis must end with Russia returning to the path of diplomacy. We call on all states and international organizations not to
recognize any alteration of the status of the certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine and to refrain from any action of or -- or
dealing that might be interpreted as recognizing any such altered status.
[10:35:00]
KULEBA: The absence of proper reaction or a neutral (ph) stance will only contribute to fuel the escalation and sufferings. And, I regret to say it,
it will not be limited to Ukraine's border and territory.
On the contrary, active diplomacy, strong political messaging, tough economic sanctions and strengthening Ukraine can still force Moscow to
abandon aggressive plans. Swift and resolute actions by the United Nations can reclaim the organization's leading role at this historic and dark
moment.
Russia must withdraw its forces from the sovereign territory of Ukraine. Russia must stop destabilizing international security situation. We
Ukrainians want peace. And we want to resolve all issues through diplomacy. We stand ready for all possible scenarios and ready to protect our land and
our people if Russia fill the (ph) attacks.
Ukraine will not hesitate to exercise its inherent right of self-defense as outlined in Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations in response to
the armed attacks of the Russian Federation.
These days, we have probably the last window of opportunity to do what Russia does not expect the United Nations and its member states to do:
demonstrate unprecedented ability and readiness to act in order to stop aggression.
No matter what relations you develop among each other, it is your ultimate duty to defend the Charter of the United Nations. I thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
ANDERSON: "We need swift, resolute action, relevant to the threat we face, all of us, as a result of Russia's action," the words of the Ukrainian
foreign minister, speaking to the United Nations General Assembly.
He said we are at a critical juncture in world history and our actions will define us for years to come. "We must not repeat," he said, "the mistake of
the past," recalling the situation prior to World War I and World War II. We are currently in the middle of the largest security crisis since the
Second World War.
And the threat, he says, is waged by Russia. What is happening right now in Eastern Ukraine must be a concern for all of you, every one, he said,
speaking to those gathered in the chamber for the General Assembly.
No one will be able to sit out this crisis, he said. And he called on the U.N. to be resolute. He said Russia will not stop at Ukraine and Moscow is
trying to prove the weakness of the United Nations.
He noted that, in 1994, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees from Russia and the West. The world, he said, owes
Ukraine its security. He followed the -- Antonio Guterres, the secretary- general of the U.N.
Let me quote to you what he said, "It is high time to establish a cease- fire and return to the path of dialogue and negotiations to save the people of Ukraine and beyond from the scourge of war."
Let's get you to Richard Roth, our senior U.N. correspondent, standing by for us in New York. And our senior international security editor Nick Paton
Walsh is in southern Ukraine.
Nick, I do want to just start with you before I get to the -- get an assessment from Richard Roth as to what has been said. You were listening
in. Just give us a sense of what you heard there and how you assess those words.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Very much, frankly, what you would expect to hear from a country who -- a foreign minister of a
country, who are deeply concerned about the possibility of invasion.
And it is a stark change in tone, frankly, from the Ukrainian government over the past 48 hours, from President Volodymyr Zelensky, saying he felt a
full-on Russian invasion was unlikely to now hearing his foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, giving such a stark suggestion.
This is essentially all of Europe's and the world's responsibility, that no one can essentially escape what may be about to come next, saying, with a
heavy heart, we all need to admit the grim reality of a new aggressive revanchist rule over Europe now -- that is rising over Europe; sorry (ph).
[10:40:00]
WALSH: That is a lengthy speech there, where diplomacy clearly was what Ukraine was desperately trying to reignite, and an appeal to the United
Nations to use its powers. I'm afraid to say the United Nations doesn't really have significant powers, particularly given the veto power that
Russia has in the Permanent Council and making comparisons to the weakness of the League of Nations ahead of the previous world war.
A very stark picture as to where we are right now. And he was speaking as some government ministries, the parliamentary website, appear to be having
a sort of cyberattack. It is always unclear when these are reported as to whether we are talking about problems with access for certain people or a
deliberate attempt to shut certain websites down.
That is important because a lot of the warnings from Western officials have suggested that a cyberattack may presage a broader, all-out invasion
against Ukraine.
And so the issue we're facing here is, having gone from a Ukrainian government who really did not believe this was likely to occur, to one who
is appealing to the U.N. and those members of the Security Council, to do possibly what it can to prevent something that may be imminent.
ANDERSON: Richard Roth, let me bring you in at this point. Nick pointing out that Russia -- the Ukrainian foreign minister said, and I quote him
here, "Russia is trying to prove the weakness of the United Nations."
He noted, of course, in 1994, that Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees from Russia and the West. And he said,
"The world owes Ukraine its security," Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He's trying to round up as much support as possible. One doesn't know where this crisis is headed
and the main theme being, this could happen to you. According to the Charter of the U.N., one country is not supposed to go into another and
then defend the sovereignty of each U.N. member country, all 193 of them.
Well, the U.N. doesn't have an army and it is a permanent member country of the Security Council, doing this. In fact, Russia is the current president
of the U.N. Security Council, which really makes a mockery of this whole system.
Basically he needs help. This is a pitch to the world, the General Assembly; there is no resolution to vote on. Prior resolutions on the
Ukraine issue and Russia have solidly been against Russia. But there is no veto in here.
So it won't be like the Security Council, where Russia would block any significant action planned by Western countries. For the secretary-general
of the U.N., he's come a long way in the last week or two. He's now said it is a violation of the U.N. Charter and international law.
It's taken him a few days to get to that point. Everybody keeps talking about diplomacy, which is the heart of the U.N. It doesn't seem like that's
going anywhere still at the moment -- Becky.
ANDERSON: No one will be able to sit this one out, he said.
Richard, Nick, thank you.
We're taking a very short break, back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:45:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ANDERSON: Well, today a package of European sanctions against Russia takes effect. These were agreed Tuesday and they include a blacklist of more
politicians, lawmakers and officials.
The sanctions also prevent E.U. investors from trading in Russian state bonds. These also freeze E.U. assets of all members of the lower house of
the Russian parliament, which, of course, voted in favor of recognizing those breakaway regions.
The Baltic states have been pushing for the E.U. to impose these sanctions. The Latvian prime minister, Krisjanis Karinsj, says Russia has violated
international law. I spoke with him just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISJANIS KARINSJ, LATVIAN PRIME MINISTER: It is clearly an invasion, according to the information that is at my disposal. They are moving in
additional Russian forces into the occupied Donbas territories. That's a clear violation of Ukraine's territorial integrity by the military. By any
measure, that is an invasion.
ANDERSON: So what do you think Putin's moves and intentions will be next?
KARINSJ: Well, his intention seems quite clear.
He is stating it very clearly in the international press and that is to end Ukrainian independence and democracy; apparently by any means, either to
undermine Ukraine politically through internal destabilizations or actually using his military to potentially launch a large offensive from various
points into the country.
This is his goal. He is trying to re-create an empire. It is the power of might, where one country, his country, has the right to dominate another
country; in this case, his neighbor.
ANDERSON: The European Union has sanctioned over 300 Russian lawmakers, who voted for recognition of the two separatist regions in Ukraine. More
details are set to be announced today.
What can you tell us?
And if more sanctions are coming, what will they look like, sir?
KARINSJ: Well, the democratic world -- and here, if we look at the E.U., we combine it with the U.S., with the U.K., with Japan, Canada -- there are
a well-coordinated set of sanctions which we could call wave one. These are actually quite deep, much deeper than we have seen anything in the past.
And it could go even further if the escalation continues.
ANDERSON: The first tranche of sanctions that U.S. President Joe Biden laid out were to effectively cut off Russia's government from Western
finance; well, that may impact Moscow to a certain extent.
Russian -- Russia's government doesn't really need Western finance, they say, and its finance minister made that point today. Let's be quite frank
here.
Is Washington's response and the wider response robust enough in your opinion?
KARINSJ: Well, what else is he going to say?
He has to say that. Russia does have some saved-up money; they have quite large reserves right now. But over time, those reserves will go down. And
if they go into an all-out war, the cost will be very, very staggering. So these sanctions, they are not the sanctions that bite immediately.
ANDERSON: Ukrainian President Zelensky has said these sanctions should come before Russian troops entered Ukrainian territory.
Does he have a point?
Is the West playing catch-up here?
KARINSJ: I think it took democratic nations a bit of time to realize what kind of an adversary Putin is. For a long time, in many countries, for many
politicians, there was a long-held belief that, somehow, if we only find the right words, we'll finally get through to Putin.
And now the realization has come. Putin is on a warpath with democracy. He does not respect our values. He does not respect our boundaries. He does
not respect anything and he says as much.
And when you realize that there is a very brutal opponent, then you start to change your behavior. And in the West and in the democratic countries,
this realization is now very profound among the political class -- across countries, across party lines -- that this is a different kind of adversary
than we thought.
Many didn't even understand it was a complete adversary. Now there is this understanding and the sanctions are coming just in time.
ANDERSON: Germany, of course, has taken an individual decision to halt the controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline.
[10:50:00]
ANDERSON: Very specifically, what do you make of that move?
KARINSJ: I think it is a very significant move. The decision is a German decision. But, of course, it has been talked about for quite a while within
the European Union. It is actually very, very important.
We in the Baltics, we were opposed to Nord Stream 1 to Nord Stream 2, arguing all along that this is a geopolitical weapon of the Kremlin; it is
not an economic project.
The Germans now understand this and have made the according move, saying that, if the Russia of Putin is one which is going to attack a free and
independent state in Europe, then such a project cannot go forward. And they have made, I think, a very wise and a very good decision.
ANDERSON: How concerned with you about a real crunch in energy for Europe going forward?
Can Europe wean its way off its reliance on Russia?
KARINSJ: In the short term, energy is a concern, of course, in Europe. And the question is of price. So there is LNG capacity around Europe to
partially offset the Russian supplies.
The worst that Putin could do is to stop all gas exports to Europe. Of course, that would stop all cash imports into Russia. And so this is
something that we'll see what decision he will take eventually.
But Europe may be in for more price difficulties. But there are many solutions that are being worked out right now to mitigate that as best as
possible. We're heading toward the spring, which means lower energy demand; no heating. So it is a question how things develop during the spring and
the summer and into the next season.
ANDERSON: It is a concern.
KARINSJ: Of course, it is a concern. But we have contingencies. Certainly in our country, we have contingencies that we have worked on, together with
our two Baltic neighbors.
So we know what we will do in case of various scenarios. In different European countries, the energy mix is different, the dependency is
different, the storage capabilities are different.
So this will be a challenge but it is a challenge that everyone acknowledges and everyone accepts. It is like war: no one wants war.
But if it comes to you, what choice do you have?
You have to stand up. So war is being brought to Ukraine. It is our duty as democracies to support Ukraine, not only looking what is at the economic
benefit to myself but looking at what is right and what is wrong.
Because if we don't stand up for Ukraine, who is next?
Putin's empire has no defined boundaries. He does not respect the right of national self-determination. So if we don't stand up now, it has no limit.
We have to stand up now, actually no matter what the cost.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: The Latvian prime minister speaking there.
Well, we have heard a lot from world leaders about the crisis in Ukraine.
What do people in Ukraine and in Russia have to say?
Well, CNN just released the results of an exclusive poll, carried out in both countries, between February 7th and the 15th. It found that 50 percent
of Russians think it would be right to use military force to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO.
Only 25 percent of Russians oppose that notion while 70 percent of Ukrainians said it would be wrong and just 13 percent said it would be
right. Well, there are a number of other really fascinating findings in this poll. Our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is here to
pick it apart.
We want to know how people, in the first instance, in both countries, would react to a war.
Do Russians feel Ukraine is worth spilling blood over?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes; it depends on what account. I think, you know, the one you laid out just now, 50 percent
of Russians saying it would be right to go ahead and have a military intervention in Ukraine, go to war, spill blood, if it was -- the outcome
was to prevent Ukraine becoming a member of NATO.
So that really fits in with President Putin's narrative that Russia is under threat. And that's been his sort of long-enduring narrative, that I
think Russians have been used to, over the decades and particularly over the past decade or so under President Putin.
And, you know, some of it, if you will, that rationale, that the -- it's the enemy outside, goes back to the era of the Cold War and the Soviet
Union.
So that piece seems to have resonance. You know, the willingness of Russians to go to war against Ukraine, to bring Russia and Ukraine together
in one country, that drops away to 34 percent, which is significant, because that sort of has become one of the newer narratives from President
Putin, which is, you know, historically Ukraine is part of Russia.
It is a strategic threat to us; we should all be one country.
[10:55:00]
ROBERTSON: So that part of Putin's narrative is not sticking as well as the sort of historic one, that the West is our enemy; that NATO is that
enemy; that Ukraine, becoming a member of NATO, worsens that threat to us.
And I think also you have to take these figures in the context of this is an environment in Russia, where particularly over the past year, the
Kremlin has really crushed all independent media bar a couple; crushed the voice of human rights organizations, in essence the ability for people to
get an alternative message.
You know, one -- as I was saying there, one of those pieces of Putin's recent messaging is that Ukraine and Russia are one country and should be
one country. The polling on that was very interesting.
Again, it gets to the point that this is an argument that isn't really sticking for Putin. Hardly surprising, barely one in 10 people in Ukraine
think that Russia and Ukraine should be one country. But only one third of Russians think that, too.
So there is not a huge amount of support for President Putin on that point. But again, you know, these figures, particularly this sort of figure of 50
percent of people prepared for Russia to go to war, to stop Ukraine from becoming a member of NATO, those figures can all change if there is a
battle and if casualties start coming back to Russia.
You can expect protests. But again, those protests that were there in 2014, the police cracked down on them heavily and, in the intervening years since
Russia annexed Crimea and there were the backlash protests in Moscow, the message that people have really received and understood is that protests on
the street don't work and don't happen.
So again, there is that part of the context to look at, too, Becky.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is in Moscow for you.
If you want to do a deeper dive into those numbers -- thanks, Nic -- you can see more of our exclusive reporting at cnn.com.
I am going to take a very short break at this point. We'll be back with the second hour of the show after this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
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