Return to Transcripts main page
Connect the World
Ukraine Claims Battlefield Gains in Midst of Revolt; Wagner Forces Involved in Conflicts in Mideast and Africa; U.S. Coast Guard Investigating Sub Implosion; Wagner Chief Prigozhin Issues Audio Statement, says he Aborted Insurrection to Avoid Russian Bloodshed; Land Deal Pits Armenian Christians against Religious Leader in Jerusalem's Old City; Hajj begins in Mecca. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired June 26, 2023 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: This hour the aftermath of a weekend of chaos in Russia. We will be asking what the aborted Wagner
insurrection means for Vladimir Putin and his war on Ukraine? But first, your headlines this hour a landslide victory in Greece for the center right
New Democracy Party and gains also for the far right, including an anti- immigrant party.
Investigation into the fatal implosion of the Titan Submersible has been launched; a top objective for the search team to recover debris that might
reveal some clues to the incident that claimed five lives. And later this hour Armenian Christians in Jerusalem's Old City in fear of losing their
homes CNN reports from the ground.
Welcome to our second hour of "Connect the World". Our top story today an insurrection that ended just as quickly as it started in Russia, Wagner
Paramilitary Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin's forces halting their march to Moscow, averting what could have been a violent confrontation the bizarre
incident leaves more questions than answers.
Russia says Prigozhin has gone to Belarus, but there are no photos or viral videos of his arriving raising doubts on that now. So what next for
President Vladimir Putin? Some analysts say his power is substantially diminished others saying it was all a grand plan to move troops around.
And perhaps the biggest questions of all what effect will this have on Russia's fight in Ukraine? And experts are warning the brief and rare
uprising will have consequences down the line with so much still uncertain. CNN's Matthew Chance reports from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For the Kremlin these are some of the most disturbing scenes from a weekend of
shocking images. On the streets of a major Russian City, Rostov-on-Don in the south, residents cheered Wagner fighters as they withdrew. Many
Russians see them as heroes. Not as the traitors the Kremlin paints them.
And Wagner's Leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin has become a celebrity too. Watch his supporters hailed down his car just to shake hands. The Kremlin says
he's now moving to Belarus next door, but it's unclear if this is the last we'll see him. What is definite though, is a sense of relief, at least here
in the Russian capital.
CHANCE (on camera): It's calm now. But in the mayhem of the weekend, Moscow was on high alert military checkpoints on the outskirts of the city,
residents bracing for Wagner fighters to enter and for the confrontation that never came.
CHANCE (voice over): It was really uneasy yesterday says Andre. But look now people are walking in the streets and it's all good. Let's hope it will
stay peaceful he adds. But even here, this sympathy for Prigozhin's unprecedented challenge his tirades against the conduct of the war in
Ukraine appear to have struck a popular chord.
I think it was an expression of an opinion, says Alik (ph) another residents of Moscow an opinion of a powerful person who wants some justice
and clarity. The belief Prigozhin should be listened to be widely shared here. But that's not what the Kremlin wants to hear.
Vladimir Putin hasn't appeared in public since making his angry pledge on Saturday. The film behind the scenes by state television to punish those
responsible for what he called an armed mutiny, the biggest challenge to his authority in 23 years of power.
But now that challenge has been made, there are growing concerns about what a defensive President Putin stung by the events of this weekend. We'll do
next to stay in power. Matthew Chance, CNN Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: One of the big unknowns is how the insurrection will affect the battlefield in Ukraine. Ukraine is claiming new successes in the brutally
fought over City of Bakhmut. The Wagner Group played a key role fighting for Russia there. Now Ukraine also says that it has retaken a village in
the south east.
[11:05:00]
And we're seeing this you have Russia's Defense Minister visiting troops along the front lines. We don't know when this visit took place as CNN's
Nick Paton Walsh is joining us with the latest from Ukraine.
And Nick, just before I get to you, I want to update our viewers that we have, I believe in the last 10 minutes, just had word that Wagner Boss
Prigozhin has released an 11 minute what we believe to be audio file. This will be the first time that we have been hearing from him since he halted
that mutiny.
And just to update our viewers Prigozhin is reportedly saying in this audio file that he turned the march or Moscow around to avoid Russian bloodshed,
and that the two factors playing into his decision to turn around were not just that, but also that he said the march was a demonstration of protests
not intended to overturn power in the country.
Nick it is worth reminding our viewers we are don't -- digesting and translating that audio file as we speak but in terms of the fact that we
had not heard from the Wagner Boss until now. How significant is it that we're hearing these comments?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it is extraordinary that frankly, it's taken this long for him to emerge and
offer this lengthy statement. He begins it by saying he's received thousands of questions about his decision to turn round on the way to
Moscow. And it is a long and a time sprawling 11 minutes audio message released.
We don't know from where. And we don't exactly know when this was recorded. But it makes a lot of references to the events of the past 72 hours or so.
Some of this information, according to Reuters, is a justification of what's gone on. He is important to point out though, that "We did not march
to overthrow Russia's leadership".
Now that echoes some of his initial phrasing before that what he calls a march of justice in the recording began. He has always maintained this was
about righting the wrongs of military top brass in Russia and their disastrous conduct of the war.
And he is clear in this message to point out that despite the fact his latest statements about marching on Moscow put in pretty much at
loggerheads with Vladimir Putin, particularly a latest statement where he said the President was mistaken.
He is sort of winding that back and saying no, we weren't looking to move Putin on. He goes on to say according to Reuters that the aim of the march
was to avoid the destruction of Wagner his group. They had been asked to sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense. And so part of this I
think, is his bid to possibly slow the situation down although the fate of his mercenary group still remains unclear Christina.
MACFARLANE: Nick Paton Walsh reporting there live from Ukraine on the latest lines we're hearing from Wagner Boss Prigozhin and of course, we'll
continue to monitor that and bring you any new lines as we get them.
Now some U.S. officials are still amazed the conflict in Russia ended as quickly as they had expected more violence. Even so U.S. Secretary of State
Antony Blinken says the unrest reveal the first visible cracks in Russia's facade. This is what he told CNN on Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATES: It's too soon to tell exactly where this is going to go. And I suspect that this is a moving picture. And
we haven't seen the last act yet. But we can say this. First of all, what we've seen is extraordinary. And I think you'll see cracks emerge that that
weren't there before.
This is just an added chapter to a very, very bad book that Putin has written for Russia. But what's so striking about it is its internal the
fact that you have from within someone directly questioning Putin's authority, directly questioning the premises that upon which he launched
this aggression against Ukraine. That in and of itself is something very powerful it adds cracks, where those go when they get there too soon to
say. But it clearly raises new questions that Putin has to deal with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: The U.S. President has spoken privately with Ukrainian Leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy, about the developments in Russia. But so far, Joe
Biden hasn't made public comments about the situation. For more on the U.S. perspective, CNN National Security Reporter Natasha Bertrand joins me now.
And Natasha, for listen on what your intelligence sources has been saying to you about those conversations?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY: Yes, Christina. So the U.S. intelligence community we learned over the weekend did see signs that
Prigozhin was planning a potentially dramatic military operation against Russian military leaders inside Russia.
But they were surprised by how this ultimately all played out. And they're telling us now that they did expect a lot more bloodshed to result from
this march that Prigozhin did with his Wagner forces into Russia, into Rostov and up towards Moscow.
Essentially, they were very surprised by the fact that the Russian troops Russian forces did not resist as much as U.S. officials thought they would
and they thought that this would be a lot bloodier and more violent.
[11:10:00]
Because essentially they thought Russian troops would put up more of a fight. And so that is one of the big questions that they're asking now is
why was Prigozhin able to get so close to Moscow and take over a military headquarters in Southern Russia without really any significant resistance
from the Russian military?
And this is something that actually Prigozhin pointed out in his recent statement, saying that clearly there are some organizational problems, to
say the least with how Russia's military is operating.
So another aspect that they were surprised about is, of course, Belarus's role. Lukashenko, the President of Belarus, how he managed to essentially
get Prigozhin to turn around once he was so close to Moscow. U.S. officials did not anticipate that Belarus would be playing this kind of instrumental
role in avoiding you know, something bloodier, more violent to happen just outside of Moscow.
U.S. officials did anticipate that if Prigozhin and Wagner got to Moscow, perhaps they would have faced more resistance. So Belarus's role in this is
very significant. And something that U.S. officials are examining. Now, in terms of where this goes from here unclear, will Putin clamp down even
further domestically, is he going to escalate inside Ukraine to show that he has control over the situation?
That is something that U.S. officials are watching for, but as we heard many senior officials say this weekend, obviously, it shows very serious
cracks in Putin's leadership and the most serious threat to his leadership that we have seen over the last two decades, Christina.
MACFARLANE: And given that Putin will be seen at the very least as being far more vulnerable than he ever has before. Where do U.S. officials assess
the sort of risk factor to be right now?
BERTRAND: Well, the biggest risk that they are afraid of essentially, that they're so concerned by, of course, is the fact that Russia is a nuclear
state. And so the question has always been if Putin feels cornered enough is he going to lash out and use a nuclear weapon a tactical nuclear weapon,
perhaps in Ukraine to show that he has full control of course, over Russia?
And that any threats to his leadership won't be tolerated. So U.S. officials were making calls over the weekend to the Russians, to try to
assure them that the U.S. had no involvement. And NATO had no involvement in this Wagner military operation.
And of course, to ensure that there were no problems and no threats to Russia's nuclear arsenal. And so that is something of course, that U.S.
officials have been concerned about just in terms of how he will react.
But then there's the more mundane aspect of this just in terms of what he does domestically. Is he going to clamp down even further on civil
liberties inside Russia if those even exist? Is he going to clamp down further on opposition?
And of course, what is this going to mean for Ukraine? Is he going to perhaps make his forces go in even harder against the Ukrainians? Because
of course, now they don't have the Wagner forces to rely on?
And of course, how is the Russian military actually going to absorb these Wagner fighters who they now say, are going to become part of the Russian
Ministry of Defense? Will they even acquiesce to that knowing just how much Prigozhin has instilled in them that the Russian Ministry of Defense can't
be trusted so all of these things, the U.S. are looking at to make sure that Russia doesn't deteriorate into the kind of instability that could
reverberate out across the region, Christina?
MACFARLANE: Yes, so many implications to come potentially from this. Natasha Bertrand live there. Thank you. Now Wagner, of course, has been
heavily involved in conflicts across Africa and the Middle East, leaving many to ask what's next there. We've just learned that Russian instructors
will continue military operations in the Central African Republic and Mali. But what are Wagner's operatives?
Middle East Expert Emile Hokayem posted this tweet over the weekend saying that Wagner and Russia armed forces had an outsized and unwarranted
reputation of discipline and effectiveness in the Arab World. He continued good to see that image in tatters in the population, in the hope that elite
two will be more sanguine about Russia.
Joining me now to discuss this is Emile Hokayem; he's the Director of Regional Security and Senior Fellow for Middle East Security at the
International Institute for Strategic Studies. Thank you so much for your time. Can we begin with that tweet that you posted and just explain your
meaning behind it?
EMILE HOKAYEM, SENIOR FELLOW FOR MIDDLE EAST SECURITY, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: Well, Wagner has been a feature of recent
conflicts in the Middle East. It started to operate as a group in Syria actually, in the early days of the civil war there as a shadowy
organization that quickly became quite active on the battlefield.
And in Libya in -- you know starting 2015 or 16 does also present and play the role in the siege of Tripoli in 2019 and 2020. And it really
contributed to building this image of Russia as a powerful omnipotent but also very agile player who can win everywhere. And essentially, Wagner was
seen and is actually an extension of Russian policy.
[11:15:00]
So the perception of many in the Middle East were shaped by this experience, you know, Russia increasingly came across as powerful as
particularly smart, agile in comparison to the Western and especially U.S. forces across the region that are seen as, you know, big and powerful, but
weak and unable to translate military successes into meaningful political victories.
MACFARLANE: So Emile, can I ask you then, on that point about how much perception matters here? Because to your point, you know, players in the
Gulf have been cultivating their relationship with Russia for years. But given how weakened Putin now apparently appears to be, I mean, what impact
is that likely to have on those relationships?
HOKAYEM: In the immediate term, you know, let's not expect the transformation in those relations. But certainly, if you're sitting in Arab
capitals, right now, you look at Russia, and you used to see a unified leadership with a strong man who knew everything, controlled everything,
and then suddenly, you see that.
OK, perhaps, you know, it is failing or certainly not performing as well as intended in Ukraine, and that there are splits within the country,
suddenly, a small armed group is able to drive a highway up to the capital, and this must be unnerving. And this will shape Gulf Arab elite perceptions
of Russia.
However, there are other reasons for why Arab countries have maintained their relationship with Russia? If you're Saudi, this is your interlocutor
when it comes to energy policy. If you're Turkey, you have a nuclear energy program going on your neighbor, there's trade and so on.
So there are structural reasons for why the big players in the region will continue talking to Moscow regardless of that moment. But it changes the
perception of Russia as this great power the significant military player that can get its way, you know, no matter what Westerners -- traditional
western partners, say to you about Moscow.
MACFARLANE: And I think to that point, we're perhaps unlikely to see a shift on Russia's side as well, because we know there Wagner operations
have led to sort of remarkable power and influence in the region.
But let me ask you this on the war in Ukraine. How much have Wagner's ties in the Middle East, and also, exploitation of natural resources in Africa
been helping to sort of prop up their war in Ukraine, especially with the raft of sanctions that have been against them? I mean, that is crucial is
it not too currently to the war situation in their business operations?
HOKAYEM: Yes. You know, it's unclear how those financial flows that you know, are generated by Wagner's control over oil and gas fields in Syria,
or oil facilities in Libya, or, you know gold and other precious material mines in Africa.
How they feed into Wagner's Central? The sense is that this is a, an increasingly lose organization, and that the various Wagner Groups, you
know, across Africa and the Middle East, run their own show, and it's not clear where that money goes to.
And, you know, looking at obviously the size of the operations in Ukraine I mean, Wagner has had to, you know, build up its capabilities, by weaponry,
pay salaries, take care of, you know, veterans and injured and so on.
But whether this was subsidized internally because of Prigozhin and other you know Wagner linked people? Their activities inside Russia or inside
Ukraine, or whether that comes from Wagner's international operations is not clear. I suspect there will be increased focus on Wagner, the
international essentially, from now on, especially when it comes to do their income operations across Africa and the Middle East.
MACFARLANE: Yes, maybe that they are more reliant on those operations more now than ever. Emile it has been great to have your thoughts on this.
Thanks very much.
HOKAYEM: Thank you.
MACFARLANE: And just a little later, chaos in Russia may spell trouble for the global economy, and the Russian Ruble. We will explain that coming up.
And in Greece, voters sent mixed signals for about reform as far right parties make games in Parliament a live report ahead from Athens.
[11:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Welcome back. U.S. Coast Guard says it has convened a marine board of investigation, its highest investigative body to look into the
fatal implosion of the Titan submersible that killed all five passengers. A top priority is to recover items from the implosion and underwater robot is
combing the sea floor looking for debris.
And meanwhile the U.S. Coast Guard is in St. John's Canada meeting with family members of those who died. Well let's bring in Miguel Marquez
standing by for us in St. John's. Miguel, if you could just give us an update on how that recovery effort is progressing and what this
investigation is hoping to achieve?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's more than one investigation, so the Coast Guard the U.S. Coast Guard has
announced their investigation. It's one of six different investigations or inquiries into this.
Four different countries launching those investigations, the U.S. Coast Guard the U.S. NTSB or National Transportation Safety Board, the Canadian
Transportation Safety Board, and then both French and British marine accident agencies are also looking into it.
The RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or the National Police Force here, it is going to look at all these investigations and try to determine
if anything criminal may be at play here and then it would then pursue criminal charges if they find that that is warranted.
Meanwhile, the search on the seafloor continues both the mapping of the debris looking for debris, and then trying to figure out which pieces they
might bring up, it sounds as though at least some smaller pieces that submersibles they have down there now they can get they can pick up smaller
pieces, but can't move larger pieces that they might want to bring up.
There is some heavy gear out there that they would be able to bring it up with, but it's very, very difficult to do given the depths given the
pressures and given paying for all this as well. The polar prints which is the ship that took the Titan out on its ill-fated trip that is back in port
here it was docked across the harbor with the TSB, the coastal guard for Canada at a dock there.
The TSB here the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, did initial interviews, collected data, collected video, collected any audio that came
off that sub back to the mothership, and spoke not only to family members, but to ocean gate staff and to marine horizon maritime staff as well, so
really beginning this massive investigation that they will then share.
All these different agencies will have to work together to share information, analyze it and figure out which direction they all gone. And
the ultimate goal is getting to understand what happened, why it failed. And if they can be bring some sort of standards to the industry worldwide
that can hopefully prevent this sort of accident from ever happening again, back to you.
[11:25:00]
MACFARLANE: Miguel Marquez for us live there, thanks to you. Alright, let's get you up to speed on some of the other stories we're following on our
radar right now. Police in Sweden are investigating a fatal rollercoaster accident. One person was killed and nine others injured at an amusement
park in Stockholm. Park officials report the front of the train partly derailed and stopped on the track.
Well, search and rescue teams in Alexandria Egypt are combing through the rubble looking for survivors after a 13-storey apartment building collapsed
on Monday. The authorities say the apartment building is mainly used for tourists vacationing in the coastal city.
And for the first time the far right Alternative for Germany party has one- eighth district election. Voters elected the AFD candidate over a Conservative Party incumbent. The man told CNN affiliate RTL Germany that
choosing between AFD and CDU was like a choice between the plague and cholera.
And a landslide victory in Greece for the center right New Democracy party and its leader, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, who is set to return for another term
as Prime Minister. The weekend's general election also saw gains for the far right, including the anti-migrant Spartans party as well as a
nationalist party and an anti-abortion party.
Well, joining us now from Athens Journalist Elinda Labropoulou. And the Prime Minister said in his victory speech, I believe that major reforms
would soon be underway. What did he mean by those?
ELINDA LABROPOULOU, JOURNALIST: Well, the Prime Minister is Mr. Mitsotakis has been promising that he will overhaul the public sector that he will
bring big changes in the education system. And the same goes for the health system as well. This is a prime minister that in the last four years has
delivered growth. He's a Prime Minister who basically has kept his pledges.
And this is why he was rewarded with another four years in office. It seems that it was very much the economy that was at the heart of this election.
And this idea that Greeks wanted stability, they want growth. You have to remember that in 2019, when he first came to power, Greece was a very
different country; it was just coming out of a long, protracted depression.
And Mr. Mitsotakis managed to turn this around; he managed to bring Greece back into more mainstream politics as well. And this is why the Greeks have
decided to give him a second chance. Having said that, this election has been quite surprising because apart from Mr. Mitsotakis's victory, we have
seen a number of other things, the one is the rise of the far right.
Again, this is something that we had seen during Greece's financial crisis. We have seen it through mostly a wave of nationalism; this is what we see
again. And we see a strong rhetoric of anti-migrant voices as well in these three smaller right wing, far right wing parties that have come now into
parliament.
This is for a number of reasons. Greece feels that since the 2015, 2016 migration crisis, it did not get or at least the help that it was hoping
for from the EU. It's a first reception country, over a million people cross through its borders. And then the court system, we're never quite
capped.
It also feels that this is an issue very much linked to territorial and sovereign issues, because it has Turkey next to it a much bigger military
power that has been weaponizing migration along the way. And finally, along with the right wing parties, we will have some gains for the far left as
well.
These all together will probably create a very disruptive voice or noise, if you wish in Parliament, but certainly not enough really, with such a
strong mandate that Mr. Mitsotakis has to really stop him from going ahead with the reforms that he has pledged, Christina.
MACFARLANE: All right, Elinda Labropoulou live for us there in Athens, thank you very much. And just ahead, can the turmoil in Russia disrupt oil
supplies? Investors are watching closely and so are we. And more reaction to the aborted Insurrection in Russia, what global powers are saying about
the stunning events of the weekend?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
MACFARLANE: Welcome back to "Connect the World" with me, Christina MacFarlane. We are hearing from the Head of Russia's paramilitary Wagner
Group. For the first time since this weekend's Insurrection, Yevgeny Prigozhin released an audio recording, in which he says he turned around
the march on Moscow to avoid Russian bloodshed.
He also says the march was a protest and was not intended to overturn power. It isn't clear where Prigozhin was speaking from. Well, NATO
Secretary General says the Wagner Group show defiance, highlights what he calls a big strategic mistake by Vladimir Putin, that mistake the full
scale invasion of Ukraine.
Jen Stoltenberg spoke at a news conference in Lithuania, where he's attending drills to test the readiness of a German led NATO battle group.
Should tensions with Russia escalate?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: This is the weakness of the Russian regime and it also demonstrates how, how difficult and dangerous it
is for President Putin to be reliant on mercenaries that has actually turned against him. And it also demonstrates that it is hard to predict
exactly what will now happen in the next days and weeks. But we should not make the mistakes that we are under estimating the Russians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, meantime the European Union will add another $3.8 billion dollars to a fund that is used to finance military aid for Ukraine. The
agreement comes after Ukraine's Foreign Minister asked the EU to "Accelerate Russia's defeat by stepping up support for his country".
But now let's get back to those lines we were just discussing. Regarding the Prigozhin audiophile, Nic Robertson's joining me here alongside me.
Nic, so we're learning some detail from this audio file. I think chief among them is Prigozhin saying that they turned this march around to avoid
bloodshed and that he had no intention to overturn power. What do you make of it?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's in keeping with what he also said the weekend as well. When he released that audio
statement Saturday evening, he said that this was done to avoid bloodshed and in the early phases of sending his forces north. It wasn't about he'd
said, overthrowing the leadership.
This was all about his personal spat and animus with the Defense Secretary Sergei Shoigu, which had been going on for a long time. And I think it's
very instructive because Shoygu ultimately wanted to take his company Wagner PMC, the mercenary group, under his control under the control of the
defense ministry.
And as power in Russia is all about in those that revolve around Putin is all about not just the power of authority of their position, but also the
money they can make in those positions. Prigozhin was on the verge of essentially losing his income to Sergei Shoigu. So this is a lot about
money as well and personal Animus is about anything else.
And some of the indications of that come out in the statement that we've just heard as well. Because he said the reason I turned to or did this
agreement, made this agreement with Lukashenko, the President of Belarus was because he was offering me a way to perhaps keep Wagner PMC as an
operating entity inside Belorussia that gives us an insight there.
[11:35:00]
He also says in the statement that the march of his troops towards Moscow was to show that Wagner should remain as an entity inside Russia,
independent of the defense ministry. And again, in his statement again today, he casts aspersions over the way that Sergei Shoigu not naming him,
but it's very clear who is talking about was running the war.
MACFARLANE: Nic, I just want to turn to show our viewers because we now have a translated clip of that statement from Yevgeny Prigozhin, and we
want to play it for you. Now take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, WAGNER GROUP CHIEF: Two factors played into my decision to turn around, first factor, we wanted to avoid a Russian bloodshed.
Second is, we marched in demonstration of a protest not to overturn the power in the country. At this time, Alexander Lukashenko extended his hand
and offered to find solutions for the further work of Wagner PMC and legal jurisdiction. The columns turned back and left for the field camps.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: That was Prigozhin. We were hearing there giving his justification for why he seemingly halted and turned around mid-flow on
route to Moscow on Saturday. Nic, just to pick up from what you were saying, with regard to Belarus Lukashenko, I don't think we heard anything
more in this statement on that so-called deal that has been put forward.
ROBERTSON: We didn't, and I think his message here is principally a message for one person. It's a message for President Putin, it's a message I wasn't
coming for you, I'm coming for the same for the same guy that I told you, isn't working in your best interests or Russia's best interest.
If you go against Putin, if you're disloyal to him in a way that Prigozhin appears to be, and it's interpreted to be, then you, you're out for good.
And there does seem to be an effort in some way. And I, I doubt that Putin is going to listen to it, but Prigozhin was his creation and was in his
inner circle.
This is perhaps a way that Prigozhin is trying to find a way back in into some kind of acceptance from Putin are clearly not into favor, but at least
to be able to carry on in business. This has, it has a lot to do with Prigozhin's own hubris, and the fact that he knows that the messages had
has been popular, and that he's had a lot of popular support. So he still wants to keep going. He wants Wagner to be an enterprise that keeps going
and making money.
MACFARLANE: And I mean this is evidence at the very least, that he is still alive, right, which is not something we were certain of in the last two
days.
ROBERTSON: In the way I think some group like maybe the CIA would try to analyze this. So there's proof of life. So in the classic kidnapping, or
whatever picture it is, you have today's newspaper, or you have, you know, a verifiable way of saying when it was recorded. We don't have that; we
don't know it might have been recorded yesterday.
But I think look, I think from the nature of what Prigozhin is saying he's not begging for forgiveness. He's trying to give an explanation, but he's
saying I'm not going, I wasn't going after Putin, and I'm still going after Shoigu. And I still want to be able to keep running my business, the Wagner
PMC.
And that basically tells you he's not about to put himself in a position of getting caught and potentially facing this investigation that the Russian
officials this morning are saying that he still faces despite the fact that on Saturday, it appeared he had an amnesty.
MACFARLANE: It's important context, Nic Robertson, I appreciate you bringing that breaking it down for us. OK, coming up in Jerusalem's old
city, the Armenian patriarch is at the center of a land deal that could threaten what's left the city's shrinking Armenian population.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:40:00]
MACFARLANE: Recapping our top story now. We are hearing from the Head of Russia's paramilitary Wagner Group for the first time since this weekend's
Insurrection. Yevgeny Prigozhin released an audio recording in which he says he turned around the march on Moscow to avoid Russian bloodshed.
He also says the march was a protest and was not intended to overturn power. It isn't clear where Prigozhin was speaking from. Meanwhile, oil
prices have been trading in a tight range. As you can see here, they were spiking earlier, as Investors reacted to that chaos in Russia, the ruble is
doing some reacting of its own.
Right now, Elliot opened at its lowest levels for nearly 15 months; the wider markets are now largely focused on the current uncertainty in Moscow,
which is pretty high. And investors are watching for any potential fallout from the most serious challenge to Vladimir Putin's authority in 23 years.
CNN's Anna Stewart is joining me here to discuss all of this. Anna, when it comes to the commodity side of this, I mean, Russia, the world's biggest
exporter of wheat, the second largest exporter of oil, there was obviously going to be some impact here. But given we don't know where we're going to
go from here, and the chaos stakes, where does that leave the markets and those commodities?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, despite so many rounds of sanctions, perhaps people will have thought that Russia would play less of a role in
global commodities. They would be wrong; it is still the world's second biggest oil export exporter, the world's biggest wheat export. So this is
why we're seeing price moves over the weekend.
And any glimpse of political instability could spell disruption for huge global commodities markets and for all of the supply chains that involves
that. So that's why we saw oil prices spike, they've come back down, as has natural gas, as has wheat. So I feel like investors are now slightly
treading water.
You mentioned the Russian ruble. And I think it's worth checking in on that, we did see the Russian ruble hit a 50 month low against the U.S.
dollar. This is interesting. And nation's currency is where you look really for a story of political instability, to see what investor appetite is. And
it moved, as you would expect, but it's a really tricky benchmark now.
In terms of investor appetite, internationally, there aren't that many investors. This is now a fairly illiquid currency in many ways due to
sanctions, due to an exodus of international firms from Russia and the fact that the Russian state can implement capital controls and restrictions at
any given time.
But what was interesting, I think over the weekend was reports of Russians trying to move rubles into U.S. dollars, a huge increase there. And we saw
the ruble trading much higher than official rates. And that does perhaps paint a picture of what maybe not the investor appetite is. But what the
risk appetite from Russians within Russia is, when you see scenes of political instability, like we had over the weekend.
MACFARLANE: Essentially, I really didn't think would be that consequential because of the lack of investors. But as you say, it's what's going on
inside the country that could be impactful. Anna Stewart, thank you.
Now, Australia is blocking Russia from building a new embassy in Canberra over what it calls a national security threat. Sky News, Australia says
this is video of a Russian diplomat official who have been squatting at the disputer site leaving earlier today. Moscow recently launched a legal
challenge that's been thrown out by the country's high court. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is welcoming that decision.
Now, Armenian Christians in Jerusalem's old city fear they could soon lose their homes. Only a few hundred Armenians are left in the Old City home to
the three Abraham faiths and split into four sections of Jews, Muslims, Christians and Armenian Christians. Now a deal has been signed by the
group's own religious leader to turn over 25 percent of the Armenian Quarter.
That's according to lawyers working to stop the deal from going through. Armenians have lived in Jerusalem for over 1600 years first settling in the
fourth century AD. Many more fled to the city after 1915 amid the Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire.
[11:45:00]
And today, those living in the Old City share the same status as Palestinians in Israeli annexed East Jerusalem. They are residents but not
citizens. Well, Hadas Gold has been reporting on this story from Jerusalem, joins us now. And Hadas, I know you've been speaking to members of the
Armenian community there. How are people feeling about this and what more do we know about who this property is now being sold to?
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Obviously when they really feel worried, they feel betrayed, they feel angry. You know, land disputes here are as
old as time, but what's unique about this one is really how it's pitting one community against the other. And one thing that the Armenian residents
tell me that really frustrates them they say is the lack of clarity from their own church leaders.
They say the patriarch of the Armenians in the Old City. They say he has been avoiding them and even not attending typical religious ceremonies like
a very typical religious ceremonies you would expect him to be at. They say that he has been essentially hiding away from them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOLD (voice over): In the hushed ornate St. James Cathedral in the Armenian Quarter, one of Jerusalem's most famous photographer, Garo Nalbandian is at
work, documenting precious community artifacts.
GARO NALBANDIAN, PHOTOGRAPHER: Sometimes I have some pieces, I totally love.
GOLD (voice over): He's also one of only a few hundred Armenians still living in the Old City. Now sounding the alarm over a recent deal that
we'll see at least 20 percent of the Armenian Quarter handed over to developers for a 99 year lease, with reported plans to build a luxury
hotel.
A deal many Armenians here say threatens their more than 1600 year presence in the Old City. And though they've faced pressures from others like Jewish
settlers in the Israeli Palestinian conflict, this deal was struck by their very own religious leaders, the Armenian Patriarchate.
NALBANDIAN: This is a copy of The Last Supper room.
GOLD (voice over): Garo's centuries old home is part of the land transfer, he says.
NALBANDIAN I'm having a nightmare every night, however, where am I'm going to live, with my family, with my children. If we lose this, it's been we're
losing all our minions people here.
GOLD (voice over): Garo's church leaders are avoiding them and refuse to show the contract or maps.
NALBANDIAN: It's not important who bought it. I'm not willing who bought it. I'm blaming -- why they sell it. Anybody can buy, has the money. But
this is it's not Patriarchate property, is a property for all Armenians, all Armenians in the world.
GOLD (voice over): With his wife and granddaughter looking on, he gets emotional over what he calls betrayal.
NALBANDIAN: I don't understand them. You know, they don't have a feeling. What I will tell you, those are not Armenians.
GOLD (voice over): The uproar over the sale and the lack of clarity have resulted in regular protest outside the Arminian Patriarch Nourhan
Manougian's office. A group of volunteer lawyers from Armenia and the United States arrived for a week long fact finding mission and to suggest
remedies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They considered the envision prospects, unacceptable.
GOLD (voice over): A defrocked Armenian priest and former real estate manager for the patriarch Father Khachik Baret Yeretzian told CNN via text
message the deal was signed by the patriarch with Xana Capital in 2021 with the intention of providing for the future financial security of the
patriarchate.
Photos from what Yeretzian says was the night the contract was signed, shows the patriarch shaking hands with developers Xana Capital Chairman
Danny Rothman, who did not respond to CNN's request for comment. But earlier this year, Yeretzian says he was asked to leave by the patriarch,
needing police protection as he was chased by protesters.
He said he now feels like a scapegoat and was only following orders. The patriarch declined our request for an interview, but we managed to catch
his deputy.
GOLD (on camera): Can you help explain what's been sold in the Armenian Quarter and why the community -- ?
ARCHBISHOP SEVAN GHARIBIAN, ARMENIAN PATRIARCHATE OF JERUSALEM: Nothing sold.
GOLD (on camera): Nothing has been sold?
GHARIBIAN: No, nothing sold. They are saying sold, but nothing sold. They have rented it to the other company that is sold. But about 99 years --
.But we are doing our best to cancel it if we can.
GOLD (voice over): The Archbishop also defending the patriarch silence towards the community saying they're working behind the scenes.
GHARIBIAN: We don't answer to any every question, every talking. Let them talk, later we will rewrite doing that.
GOLD (voice over): Garo Nalbandian is not convinced; he says they will have to physically carry him out of his home, fighting till the end.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLD: Now Garo said that when he went to the patriarch to ask about what will happen to his home, he said they sort of dismissed him say not to
worry, don't worry, don't worry.
[11:50:00]
But he is worried, because according to maps that he has seen, his home and several of the homes of his family are part of the transfer. He doesn't
know what that will mean, whether this luxury hotel will be built over his home.
Now, the group of lawyers, these volunteer lawyers say they will be a releasing report very soon that they say will not only lay out exactly what
they understand is in this contract and what is at stake. But also they are going to be suggesting remedies that I don't know whether these remedies
will be a way to cancel this deal, or remedies that could protect some of the Armenian property there.
But there has already been quite significant fallout for the Armenian patriarch as a result. The Palestinian authority as well as the Kingdom of
Jordan, which is the traditional custodian of both the Muslim and the Christian sites, they have withdrawn recognition of the Armenian patriarch
over this deal, Christina.
MACFARLANE: It's an important story and one, Hadas; I know you will continue to follow for us here on CNN. Thank you. And you can find out more
on this story on CNN's "Meanwhile in the Middle East Newsletter" you can sign up to have that delivered straight to your inbox at cnn.com/Mideast or
scanning the code at the bottom of your screen now.
The newsletter is published three times a week with expert analysis from across the Middle East on the region's biggest stories. OK, coming up,
Glastonbury music festival goers attend what could be the last performance on British grounds for a national music icon; stay tuned to find out who it
is.
[11:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Now it's migration season for Australia's humpback whales. And this year there is some good news. Nearly 4800 whales were counted swimming
off the New South Wales on Sunday. This is a big increase from last year more than 1500. Experts say the high numbers are assigned while populations
are recovering. The whales are heading north to reproduce.
That is the one and only Elton John at what could possibly be his last show in Britain. The 76-year-old was the headliner at Glastonbury Music Festival
yesterday. Tens of thousands of people rock suede and danced Elton's Greatest Hits as the festival wrapped up its final day. Spectators say that
despite what Elton says, he has been known to make a return after retirement, so perhaps who encounter that just yet.
Now in tonight's parting shots Muslims around the world embark in their religious holiest journey. Hajj ceremonies have begun in Mecca as some 2
million worshipers arrived from outside Saudi Arabia to perform the holy ritual. This will be the first year of Hajj without COVID restrictions.
And Saudi Arabia hopes this will bring the number of pilgrims back to pre- pandemic levels when it attracted around 21 million worshippers for the annual 10 day ritual. Among this year's pilgrims will be more Iranians than
years before.
This after Saudi Arabia and Iran signed a peace agreement earlier this year that restore diplomatic relations between the two countries. Iranian media
reported nearly 97,000 nationals will be partaking in this year's hajj. Well, more on CNN coming up right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:00]
END
