Return to Transcripts main page

Connect the World

Trump Indictment Reveals new Details about Insurrection; Hundreds of Thousands of People Depend on U.N. Agency Aid; WFP Set to Suspend Food Aid to many Palestinians; Legendary Keeper Buffon Retires. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired August 03, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(CNN US SIMULCAST)

[11:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: We're just a few hours away now from Donald Trump's scheduled appearance in a Washington DC courtroom.

This is important stuff. The indicted former president will face four criminal charges related to his efforts to overturn the 2020 election,

those efforts led to the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol.

Law enforcement has tightened security in Washington ahead of Mr. Trump's arraignment later this afternoon U.S. time. Well, Senegal's Foreign

Minister says, her country will send its military to Niger if West African regional bloc ECOWAS decides to intervene with the cup. Now ECOWAS has

threatened to use force if Mohamed Bazoum is not reinstated as Niger's president by this weekend.

Meantime, thousands of people rallied in Niger's capital city earlier today to celebrate the country's Independence Day as they see it and support the

military coup. All this comes as the U.S. tries to assume Mr. Bazoum that Washington remains committed to restoring Niger's democratically elected

government and is dedicated to finding a peaceful resolution.

For more on this let's bring in CNN's David McKenzie in Johannesburg. There are a number of threads I think are worth exploring here. Firstly,

Senegal's announcement that it will send it's military if directed by ECOWAS. What do we make of that? How significant is it?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's significant because it puts on the record that countries in the region are

willing to put boots on the ground to try and restore the democratic dispensation in Niger. And the foreign minister is making it very clear

that this is what they are willing to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AISSATA TALL SALL, SENEGALESE FOREIGN MINISTER: As I speak, the Chiefs of Staff of the ECOWAS member States are meeting to see what the modus

operandi will be once the political decision is taken at the highest level and at community level. So yes, our soldiers will go. How they will go,

they were still in the process of consulting each other on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: So you have that possible military pressure. You also have economic pressure with widespread reports that the Nigerians are cutting

off power to parts of Nigeria, and also sanctioning individuals involved in this coup. You had those big protests in the capital, which appear to be in

support of the coup leaders.

It's hard to gauge Becky just how widespread that support is that as the economic pain kicks in, some analysts believe that this will make the

situation of the coup leaders more tenuous as it does seem to be that there's still a window of negotiating out of this very bad situation.

Becky?

ANDERSON: So we understand the ECOWAS position here, and they have threatened some sort of intervention should Bazoum not being reinstated by

this weekend. On the flip side of this of course, Niger's coup leader has sought support from what is the Wagner backed Mali military junta. Have a

listen to what the State Department spokesman out of the U.S. had to say about Wagner's role in Niger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW MILLER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: I would not be surprised to see Wagner attempt to exploit this situation to their own

advantage as they have attempted to exploit other situations in Africa to their own advantage. When I say to their own advantage, I mean to their own

personal financial advantage, as well as their attempt to expand their influence on the continent.

But I would add that any attempt by the military leaders in Niger to bring the Wagner forces into Niger would be a sign yet another sign that they do

not have the best interests of the Nigerian people at heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:20:00]

ANDERSON: David?

MCKENZIE: Well, I mean, you had one of the coup leaders, Becky heading to Mali and meeting with the military leader there to try and shore up support

from Mali. The same applies to Burkina Faso and -- . Wagner has been, frankly, a spectacular failure in Mali when it comes to actually combating

the threat of extremist terror.

Because of them welcoming Wagner, you had a French forces disperse and a drawdown now, because of the attitude of the military leadership in Mali of

the UN blue helmet forces in that country. Now, already before all of this occurred, there was a very challenging security situation in Mali.

But you've seen the numbers of civilian deaths spike significantly since Wagner has gotten involved in that country. So on one level, that U.S.

official is right, it might not be the best interest of the people of Niger if Wagner was to take over the very considerable French and American

presence in Nigeria.

It's also worth repeating frequently that President Bazoum was seen as being somewhat of a success story, when it comes to combating extremist

groups on the margins of his country on both the West and eastern borders. That is now very much and the question and the motivation for this coup

isn't necessarily the people of Nigeria, but the power that these generals can get from it. Becky?

ANDERSON: Good insight, thank you, David McKenzie on the story for you. Well, at least 200 people have been killed in a new round of fighting in

Sudan. That's according to the Darfur Bar Association. The group says that the paramilitary rapid support forces or the RSF attacked towns in West

Darfur; the fighting has sent thousands of refugees as we are well aware to Chad.

More than 300,000 Sudanese nationals have crossed into Chad since the fighting broke out in April. Well, Amnesty International has issued a new

report documenting what it says our extensive war crimes and other serious violations and abuses happening in Sudan right now.

And I want to read an excerpt from that report, "Considering the scale of fighting and organization of both sides, the situation qualifies as a non-

international armed conflict under the Geneva Conventions. As such, the fighting between the parties is governed by international humanitarian law,

which seeks to protect civilians and other non-combatants in armed conflict and international human rights law which continues to be applicable.

Certain serious violations of these rules constitute war crimes for which individual soldiers and commanders can be held criminally responsible".

Donatella Rovera is Amnesty International Senior Crisis Investigator and the Co-author of that report, and she joins me now. It's good to have you.

Thank you.

The question on the back of what we've just read part of that report, will either of the two warring generals from the RSF and SAF be held criminally

responsible? Where does this land us at this point?

DONATELLA ROVERA, SENIOR CRISIS INVESTIGATOR, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL: Well, first and foremost, the concern is obviously for the civilians, because we

are not aware that you know, there is no end in sight at the moment and civilians continue to be killed and injured in their homes when they go out

looking for food where they try to find safety.

They're being killed, they're being injured, women and girls are being sexually abused, sexually assaulted, raped by combatants, both sides, the

combatants on both sides are responsible. The international community must do much more to ensure that these war crimes are being investigated and

that those responsible will be held to account.

Because at the moment combatants on both sides clearly feel that the total impunity they enjoy you know, is there to last. And that impunity is

fueling more abuses. So unless swift action is taken, the situation will continue to deteriorate.

ANDERSON: I want to underscore just how bad things are here. You tweeted earlier, "The horror civilians live through every day in Sudan. Nowhere is

safe. Civilians have been killed and injured in their homes while trying to flee the violence and in the very places where they sought refuge".

Describe for our viewers if you will just a little further some of the revelations you discovered and are embedded in this report.

[11:25:00]

ROVERA: So just to give you an example on the very, very first day, when the conflict exploded in Khartoum on the 15th of April, dozens of civilians

were killed and injured in their homes. Among them was a 26-year-old doctor called Ala al-Mardi. She came home from the hospital where she was working,

got into her home and within minutes, a stray bullet came through the window severely injured her mother and killed her. That's just one example.

This is what's been happening to civilians all over the affected areas in the Capitol. And in the Darfur region, people killed in their home, people

killed while they tried to flee. People, civilians deliberately targeted. A 27-year-old woman told me that her husband and four of his brothers, the

youngest of whom was only 13-years-old, were all killed by RSF rapid support forces paramilitaries, who went into their homes, looked for demand

and killed all five of them in front of the rest of the family.

So both sides are deliberately targeting civilians, and they're also fighting in such a reckless manner within densely populated civilian areas

and by so doing killing and injuring civilians.

ANDERSON: Perhaps unsurprisingly, neither side accepts your findings. Briefly, what's the role of the international community here, particularly

those with leverage over the warring parties in ending this deadly situation, this violence situation?

ROVERA: Obviously, you know, those who have leveraged at the international level, the regional powers as well, the neighboring countries must put

pressure on both sides on the warring side. As well, the United States has taken the presidency of the UN Security Council as of the first of August

two days ago.

So it's very important that the situation is brought very swiftly on to the agenda of the UN Security Council, it has not done so for now. The UN

Security Council should extend the arms embargo, which at the moment only covers the Darfur region; it should cover the whole of Sudan.

Likewise, the referral to the International Criminal Court only concerns the Sudan region. It should concern, it only concerns the Darfur region, it

should be extended to the whole country. The UN Human Rights Council should set up an investigation to send a very clear message to the warring side, -

- that the abuses are being investigated but those responsible will be held accountable. That will be an important message to act as a disincentive to

the warring sides.

ANDERSON: With that, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us.

ROVERA: Thank you.

ANDERSON: The story in Sudan. Lots more ahead on Donald Trump's court appearance today. I want to get you a look at how the latest charges could

affect Trump's reelection bid. And we'll have more about a possible defense that is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]

ANDERSON: Welcome back, you're watching "Connect the World" with me Becky Anderson. Your regional headlines this hour, this show of course normally

broadcasts from a hub in the Middle East. And Iran is in the second day of a two day public holiday to beat unprecedented heat. That's according to

the state news agency IRNA.

And the government says it shut down most public and private institutions to protect the health of citizens. Some Iranian cities saw temperatures of

nearly 50 degrees Celsius this week. Well, tomorrow marks three years since the massive blasts at Beirut's port. Lebanon will mark it with a day of

mourning.

Country's Caretaker Prime Minister Najib Mikati says local governments and other public institutions will close in solidarity. The Beirut blast was

one of the largest non-nuclear explosions ever, more than 200 people died. Well, our eyes are on the federal courthouse in Washington where we are

awaiting the arrival of Donald Trump do in a couple of hours from now.

Former president will answer charges of conspiring to overturn the 2020 election results. He'll appear just a block from where his supporters went

on a rampage just weeks after the election. He said he rightfully won. CNN's Jake Tapper has more on what we are learning about that day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The indictment includes some startling details about the alleged willingness of Trump's co-conspirators

to foment violence. In a meeting on January 4, when a former President Trump's senior advisors told co-conspirator number two, John Eastman, his

plan to undermine the democratic election would "Cause riots in the streets".

The indictment says that Eastman, "Responded that there had previously been points in the nation's history where violence was necessary to protect the

Republic". And former Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark, co- conspirator number four, expressed a similar sentiment in a meeting on January 3, when he was told by a Deputy White House Counsel, there would be

"Riots in every major city if Trump didn't leave office".

According to the indictment, Clark responded, "Well, that's why there's an Insurrection Act". A reference to the 1807 law is empowering the president

to use the military to suppress any civil disorder. The indictment mentions how Trump and two co-conspirators spoke at the Save America rally in

Washington DC a few hours before the official counting of electoral votes at the Capitol. Rudy Giuliani is riling up the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's have trial by combat.

TAPPER (voice over): And then President Trump saying flat out the rules no longer applied.

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Fraud breaks up everything doesn't it? When you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed

to go by very different rules.

TAPPER (voice over): The indictment also notes how Trump and his co- conspirators deceived the crowd gathered that morning, encouraging them to believe Vice President Mike Pence had the power to overturn the election

results.

JOHN EASTMAN, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: All we are demanding of Vice President Pence is this afternoon at one o'clock; he let the legislatures

of the state look into this. So we get to the bottom of it.

TRUMP: I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election.

TAPPER (voice over): And then Trump said this.

TRUMP: We fight. We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

[11:35:00]

TAPPER (voice over): And a few hours later, some in the crowd chanted.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, the images from that day seared into our minds. Jake Tapper is reporting there. For more on today's proceedings and David Chalian joins

me from New York. This is an historic day. And I underscore the word historic here. This is a former president being arrested and arraigned on

charges of conspiracy to defraud the United States, as he is currently seeking the presidency yet again, your reflections, David.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, Becky, and not just is he seeking the presidency. He's the dominant front runner for the Republican

Party's nomination. And this is we have a brand new CNN poll out today showing now seven in 10 Republicans believe that Joe Biden was not

legitimately elected in 2020. So for years now, Donald Trump has been telling the lie that he started telling about the election in the immediate

aftermath this is at the center of this federal indictment.

And what we see is, when you are the guy with the biggest megaphone in the party, the party is listening to you. And so, seven and 10 Republicans now

and Republican leaning independents, tens of millions of Americans are fully bought into this, which is why you see his Republican competitors are

unable to find a way to actually go directly at him and take him on, on these charges because the party faithful thinks these charges are bogus.

ANDERSON: Yes, David, these are charges not least, that Donald Trump conspired to overturn the 2020 election. His attorneys are saying that the

former president is exercising his first amendment rights. Have a listen to what former Attorney General Bill Barr had to say about that.

You may have already heard this, but some of our viewers won't have done, so listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BARR, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: As the indictment says, you know, they're not attacking his first amendment right? He can say whatever he

wants, he can even lie. He can even tell people that that the election was stolen when he knew better. But that does not protect you from entering

into a conspiracy.

All conspiracies involve speech. And all fraud involves speech. So, you know, free speech doesn't give you the right to engage in a fraudulent

conspiracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: What do you make of what Bill Barr said briefly, David?

CHALIAN: Yes, he is saying what is exactly in Jack Smith's indictment. He certainly the president, the former president has the right to lie and tell

falsehoods. It's when you act on them in this conspiratorial manner and do something illegal that you get in trouble with the law. And so just this

blanket policy of this is free speech, this is political speech that we've heard from Trump's lawyers. I'm not so sure listening to Trump's hand-

picked attorney general that he thinks that's going to hold up in court.

ANDERSON: Always good to have you sir. Thank you.

CHALIAN: You too. Thank you.

ANDERSON: CNN special coverage of the arraignment of former President Donald Trump begins at 1 p.m. Eastern Time. It is now what just after half

past 11 Eastern Time. You're watching "Connect the World" with me, Becky Anderson. Well, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians may soon go hungry as

the World Food Program runs out of funds. I want to speak with the agency's local director up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:00]

ANDERSON: The World Food Program provides aid to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians each month. The agency is running out of funds and may soon

have to suspend that relief. Well, Palestinians living in Gaza cut off from the rest of the world and suffering from intense poverty really rely on

that WFP food. CNN's Richard Greene traveled there and he spoke to residents who are worried about what may happen next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD GREENE, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): The World Food Program aid warehouse in Gaza, people collecting staples like flour,

lentils, chickpeas, and olive oil produced locally and bought by the agency to distribute to people in need from Palestinians, for Palestinians.

About 20,000 people rely on food handouts from this distribution center, one of the two WFP aid centers in Gaza where unemployment is over 45

percent. But they may soon be going hungry as the World Food Program itself is running out of donor finds.

People like Khader Khder; he works one or two days a month in construction, earning less than $30. That's not enough to buy even one of these bags of

flour, and essential ingredient to keep his family of 10 alive.

KHADER KHDER, AID RECIPIENT: Generally if we have flour at home, everything is fine. We're not asking for luxury. As long as we have flour, it means

that we have food. We do not cook every day, but we make bread every day.

GREENE (voice over): Only one of Khader's eight children is working. One daughter is married, another disabled, and two are still in school. One son

works as a trader in the market, but his other three sons are unemployed.

KHDER: If there was a work, they would have worked. But the situation is very hard and there is no work.

GREENE (voice over): The WFP is in danger of running out of money, already reducing the amount of aid at hands out and warning that by November it

will be forced to suspend operations in Gaza and the West Bank if more funding doesn't come through. That would be a nightmare for Samar Al

Bayyouk, who shops in WFP approved stores with a card issued by the aid agency, rather than getting commodities from a warehouse.

SAMAR AL BAYYOUK, AID RECIPIENT: This help stops, my whole life will stop. I know people that stopped having it and I can see their lives just

stopped. If they tell me one day that I will stop getting it, I might have a heart attack on the spot.

GREENE (voice over): Al Bayyouk supports a family of seven and the WFP aide mean she can buy meat, cheese, salt, even jam and chocolate for her kids.

Until recently, the WFP supported 275,000 people in Gaza this way. But with money running short, first they cut the amount of money each recipient got

and then started cutting people off completely. Al Bayyouk doesn't know what she will do if that happens to her.

BAYYOUK: I wouldn't be able to buy all this without the voucher. I may buy one thing and some days we may stay without anything. Without this voucher

we cannot live.

GREENE (voice over): She's far from alone. Two out of three of Gaza's 2 million plus people struggle to put food on the table. And unless donors

come up with the $41 million, the aid agency says it needs for Palestinians by November, Gaza, and the West Bank may not have the World Food Program to

help. Richard Greene, CNN, Gaza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, joining me now is Samer Abdel Jaber who is the World Food Program's Director in the Palestinian territories. It's good to have you. I

wish that you and I didn't have to talk about this, but we do. It's so important. Richard reporting there that as far as we understood, this aid

will be suspended by November. Can you clarify that and how many people do you believe are affected at this point?

[11:45:00]

SAMER ABDEL JABER, REPRESENTATIVE & COUNTRY DIRECTOR, WFP PALESTINE: Thank you, Becky, great to be with you. And like you said the report is covering

very well, the situation in Gaza and the West Bank. Unfortunately, we're talking about 1.8 million people that are food insecure in both West Bank

and Gaza. And WFP is supporting directly 300, 438,000 people.

But because of the funding situation, we had to scale down to 375 in March, and then April, we had to reduce the transfer value 20 percent on the

beneficiaries. And unfortunately, in June, we had to make that tough decision to cut off 200,000 people from that lifeline support that we

provide to them.

ANDERSON: So is November, the cutoff date?

JABER: Correct. So we originally announced that it's going to be in August, but thanks to some generous contribution from donors, we were able to

sustain the prioritize people. So we're not going to be reversing the assistant cuts that were announced because of the funding situation. But we

will be maintaining the current caseload of people that we support in November.

ANDERSON: OK, let's be quite clear about this. Gaza is under occupation. It's closed off from the rest of the world. And it suffers from extreme

poverty, all of that making life extremely difficult for its residents. Why is all of this particularly worrying in Gaza?

JABER: Yes, that's a good point, Becky; it's not coming out of vacuum. So the food insecurity is just a symptom. The poverty, the unemployment rates

that are high, is driving the food insecurity situation in the Gaza. Like you mentioned in the report, two out of every three people are food

insecure.

And unfortunately, with the fiscal situation that WFP and other humanitarian partners that are not able to provide services, unfortunately,

we expect that the situation could even get worse. 80 percent of the Gazan population is receiving humanitarian aid from the different partners on the

ground.

ANDERSON: Right. So what are they supposed to do? If they say this card, what are they supposed to do?

JABER: That's why we we've been advocating on their behalf, making sure that their voices are coming out to the public, because definitely, it's a

tough situation for them. And we're hoping that donors will step in, we're aware that it's a tough year; we know that fiscal crisis for the donors is

affected. And of course, we are seeing the ramification of that on our programs, but also on the people that we serve. So it's tough.

ANDERSON: We know that this WFP funding shortfall is a global issue, not just in Gaza and the West Bank. We regularly speak to your agency and

applaud the work that you do on the ground. And we have provided a platform to ensure that people understand just how tough things are. Let's start

that why is the WFP running out of money?

JABER: Thanks, Becky. Look, globally, I think WFP have received only 40 percent of the funds that it's need. So we're seeing those cuts affected in

the region. We're seeing it in Syria. We're seeing it in Jordan, in Yemen, definitely Palestine and also in Afghanistan and many other countries.

So the situation is a global, like you said, and we're seeing that food prices have been increasing globally, which is affecting the funding that

we're able to receive. We're seeing the donor, the needs are growing, but at that same time, the resources are not growing along the same line.

ANDERSON: Understood.

JABER: So these are the main drivers for the situation that we are in at the moment.

ANDERSON: Samer, it's good to have you on, let's stay in touch. Thank you.

JABER: Thank you, Becky.

ANDERSON: Taking a short break back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:00]

ANDERSON: Well, it's been another day of amazing football at the Women's World Cup in Australia and some super storylines. Morocco made history for

qualifying for the round of 16 in their first tournament appearance. They beat Colombia, one nil in their last game in the group stage. You can just

see how important that was to the players.

Their victory, however, comes at the expense of Germany, which at one point have been favored to win the competition. They were knocked out of the

tournament by one all draw against South Korea. And in a similar obviously on Wednesday, South Africa ranked 54th going into the tournament, beat

Italy with a three-two victory pushing them through to the final 16.

Well it being knocked out of a World Cup tournament wasn't, and our fans of Italian football were well they were saddened by the news, no follower of

the beautiful game really want to hear there, the retirement of an absolute legend Italian goalkeeper and goalpost icon, Gianluigi Buffon, well Gigi as

he's known, announced that he will be hanging up his gloves after a spectacular 28 year career.

He tweeted yesterday saying that's all folks you gave me everything, I gave you everything. We did it together. Buffon leaves the pitch with a World

Cup victory 10 Serie A titles and one league title under his belt. Well, I was lucky enough to spend a whole day with him a couple of days in fact

with the football legend back in 2019.

And I can so clearly remember what a 40 was not only in the world of football, but also in the world of arts, food and so much more. So before

we go, I just thought I'd show you a little clip from my day with the Italian star. It really paints a picture of the man we are bidding farewell

to.

GIANLUIGI BUFFON, ITALIAN FOOTBALLER: I can't foresee the future, nobody can. As I said before, the few times you try to write it down or codify it,

life will change. If you told me seven months ago I was going to be here. I wouldn't have believed you. I'd have never thought it possible since I

thought I might stop playing, or I might have changed my lifestyle taking on a director's role, or possibly a technical one.

I might have stayed on at Juventus. Life surprised me, and now I find myself here in Paris.

ANDERSON: Is Gigi Buffon in a good place?

BUFFON: Well, Gigi is, looking at the picture, happy and positive for three hundred days a year. I love life. That means that I love people and l

listen to them. I like to build relationships with people because that's really what life is all about.

I like that, and I get satisfaction connecting with others. Then, there are the remaining sixty-five days a year when maybe one can feel a little sad.

But that's normal because some days you get out of the wrong side of the bed and you have niggling thoughts. But if you ask me if I'm a happy man,

my answer is yes. I'm extraordinarily happy because I've had the opportunity to live and have experienced life.

ANDERSON: But do you still get the same thrill when you put on those gloves? And you go out into that field and you hear the roar of the crowd.

Do you still feel that same thrill or you're exhausted by it?

BUFFON: That's a really good question that I ask myself. Why do I have the desire to carry on playing? Well, I continue playing because I absolutely

love the challenge and that motivation comes from within me.

[11:55:00]

When you're training even if it's minus five degrees outside, aged forty- one, at nine o' clock in the morning and you throw yourself on the pitch you ask yourself, what on earth are you doing? Go home to bed. But when you

want a challenge, you tell yourself, no.

I may be forty-one, but that changes nothing. It's a battle with you, psychologically very taxing. It's something that I find fascinating because

my passion for football is inevitably fading and it's completely normal that after forty years of doing the same job, my passion is not what it

used to be.

But I've been able to counterbalance that fading passion with that desire to challenge myself. I want to surprise myself and others.

ANDERSON: Gigi Buffon, a legend indeed. Thank you for joining us wherever you are watching in the world. CNN continues after this short break. Stay

with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:00]

END