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Israel Expands Ground Operations To Whole Of Gaza; Dead And Wounded Overwhelm Hospital In Gaza; Europe Leading Effort To Effort To Triple Renewable Energy Capacity; World Bank: Funding Remains Inadequate To Fight Climate Change; New Exchanging Of Fire Across Israel-Lebanon Border; CNN Gaza Reporter's Home Destroyed, Relatives Killed In Strikes; Yousaf: Scotland Committed To Being "Good Global Citizen. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired December 04, 2023 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:31]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Well, hello and welcome to CONNECT THE WORLD, with me, Becky Anderson, live from the Cop 28 summit in Dubai,
where climate financing is taking center stage here today.
First up, though we start with the ongoing crisis happening in Gaza. Families are making their way south as Israel orders more evacuations of
Gaza. Neighborhoods and warns it is expanding its ground operations to the entire territory. In some cases, this means leaving places where people
previously sought shelter. Israel said today it has struck 200 targets.
The number of dead in Gaza, edging towards 16,000, according to the Hamas- run health ministry, with more than 300 killed in the past day alone.
Citizens Alex Marquardt spoke to my colleague Kate Bolduan, last hour from Tel Aviv. Let's have a listen to what he reported.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Since those talks fell apart, since that fragile pause ended on Friday, and those
hostage releases stopped, we are now in the fourth day of renewed fighting, the fourth day of Israeli bombardment of the Gaza Strip.
The Israeli military saying that overnight, there were some 200 airstrikes across the Gaza Strip, and Israel announcing that it is now expanding its
campaign to all of Gaza.
Remember, the first five, six weeks of this initial phase of the campaign was in the northern Gaza Strip. Now they're moving south, which raises
major concerns about where these civilians are going to go?
Of course, northern Gazans had been told to move south and many of them had gone to this city of Khan Younis, where Israeli and American officials now
believe many of -- or much of the Hamas leadership has gone to. And so, now Israel is calling on civilians in Khan Younis to move even farther south.
The U.N. estimates that there are 1.8 million Gazans, who have been displaced. That is the vast majority of the 2.2-million-person population.
Kate, the big question is whether Gazans are actually getting this message. How easy is it for them to actually get that. Israel's relaying these
evacuation orders via social media via leaflets that have been dropped with Q.R. codes that take you to a rather complicated map, a grid map with
different numbers in different areas.
So, not only is it complicated to understand, but it is -- it is that you cannot assume that Gazans are actually getting this message, because of how
weak the Internet connection has been because of the numerous blackouts and communication that we have seen over the course of the past few weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, it's Alex Marquardt.
Let me bring in Ben Wedeman from Jerusalem and Arlette Saenz from the White House.
Arlette, let me start with you. What's the perspective there as we see this significant uptick in Israel's attacks on Gaza and the resultant death and
destruction in the enclave?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, you've really heard the U.S. officials ramping up both their private and public pressure
campaign, to try to stress to Israel that they need to take greater assurances to protect civilian life.
These are conversations that officials have been having behind the scenes with Israeli counterparts, as well as leaders in the region.
Now, Vice President Kamala Harris, who was traveling in Dubai just this weekend, and she was quite forceful in saying that more needs to be done to
protect and prevent civilian casualties.
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin made similar comments, saying that the Israel, if they are putting civilians at risk, they -- there may be a
tactical victory. But ultimately, that is a strategic defeat for them. And so, it really comes as the U.S. has recognized that there is both
international and domestic pressure here at home, to try to do more to urge Israel to avoid the loss of civilian life.
Now, U.S. officials have said that they believe that Israel has been receptive to this, but it's unclear if those tactics that Alex had just
outlined are enough if that's meeting exactly what the U.S. wants to see. The U.S. has said, there needs to be areas created, safe zone areas for
these civilians ahead to as Israel is waging its campaign.
They also want to ensure that Israel is protecting civilian infrastructure at places like hospitals and areas of water supplies. And it also comes as
Secretary of State Antony Blinken had a phone call yesterday with the prime minister of Qatar, who was quite frank and pushing for de-escalation and a
ceasefire.
[10:05:03]
The prime minister argued that the ongoing bombing that started since that humanitarian pause ended is complicating a mediation effort as they are
still trying to find some type of way to get these hostages home.
But the U.S. really has in the past few days, had a very notable shift, as they have been trying to pressure Israel to take more precautions to
protect civilians in Gaza.
Ben, let me turn to you. You are reporting on the situation in Gaza. What are the details?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're seeing is that the death toll, as you said is rising. It's almost 16,000,
according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza. And I know we always say it's Hamas-run, but by and large, it's believed that those
numbers are fairly accurate.
What we saw was that in a 24-hour period, between Saturday afternoon and Sunday afternoon, 316 people were killed 664 wounded. Overnight, there were
strikes on the Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza -- the only hospital still functioning in that area.
There was a strike, according to the head of the pediatric unit there, on one of the entrances.
This is a place where there is some, -- where between 5,000 and 6,000 people in the compound of the hotel, of the hospital under the assumption
that they might be safe there but what we're seeing is that when it comes to Gaza, really there is nowhere that is safe.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice over): Look around. This is Gaza City's Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, where the wounded are treated in the open on wooden pallets. The
emergency ward is already jammed.
The courtyard is full of body bags. Dozens were killed in a series of Israeli strikes, Saturday, many more still under the rubble.
Israel claims one of those strikes, killed a senior Hamas commander, who helped planned the 7 October attacks. He was, perhaps, one dead among many,
many others.
This woman lost her daughter and grandchildren, and names them all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Erya (PH), Uganim (PH), Umusab (PH), Uzmail (PH), Ujuri (PH), (INAUDIBLE) --
WEDEMAN: And may God judge those watching us die, she cries.
It's a similar scene in Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in central Gaza -- more wounded, many of them children. And more dead, many of them children.
WEDEMAN: They bombed an entire street, says Saad (PH). He pulled his brother, Mohammad (PH) from the rubble. But his brother Mohammad was dead.
Says Saad, let me say goodbye to him.
My father has been killed, cries this boy after a strike on the Jabalia refugee camp, Sunday. The seven-day truce seems like the distant past.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (on camera): And we have some sad news to report from the CNN family. You'll recall Ibrahim, the man our producer in Gaza found out over
the weekend that nine members of his extended family, including his aunt and uncle were killed in an Israeli strike on Northern Gaza.
And we extend our condolences to Ibrahim and his family.
ANDERSON: Absolutely echoed from the team working here in Abu Dhabi, of course.
Ben, Arlette, thank you.
Once we've been reporting here at the COP 28 conference, discussion of the war in Gaza has at times overshadowed the climate talks. And we are hearing
an apparent shift in tone from the U.S. on Israel.
Have a listen to U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris, making an appeal here over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As Israel defends itself, it matters how the United States is unequivocal. International
humanitarian law must be respected. Too many innocent Palestinians have been killed.
Frankly, the scale of civilian suffering and the images and videos coming from Gaza are devastating.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:10:00]
ANDERSON: That's Kamala Harris, speaking here at the COP 28 summit. Well, the president was back in front of the mic today -- the president of COP
28, that is once again trying to calm his critics.
Dr. Sultan Al Jaber is now reasserting his commitment to science. He says he was misrepresented about recent comments such as, "There is no science
behind requiring an end to fossil fuels to limit global warming. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULTAN AHMED AL JABER, PRESIDENT, COP28: -- was to prove that there is some confusion out there, and misrepresentation and misinterpretation.
I have said over and over, that the phase down, and the phase out of fossil fuel is inevitable.
In fact, it is essential. And this transition is, in fact, essential. And it needs to be orderly, fair, just, and responsibly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, funding for climate equality is a major focus here today.
CNN's. David McKenzie is with us now. David.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is very much a major focus, Becky. And COP president is saying that everyone needs to work
together to give that funding to both poorer nations and nations that need to transition.
You know, I spoke to an insider at this event, he said, it is too early to really get a clear sense of where it is going in terms of the commitment to
a transition, either a face down or face out. We need to watch very closely as the days goes by of the next week, how that language may shift. Because
that is what, I think everyone's looking to see at these COP meetings.
I spoke to a leading Kenyan activist who has been at the forefront of these issues. Here is what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANJRA MATHAI, MANAGING DIRECTOR, AFRICA AND GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP: So, we absolutely need to ratchet up our work, our action ambition, yes. But
really what we need to do is make absolutely sure that we address the key issues, emissions, we have to cut those.
MCKENZIE: Do you need to see language that is going to be concrete on phasing out or phasing down fossil fuels?
MATHAI: Well, listen, there is so much attention on the language. What we must focus on is the fact that there needs to be clear short-term pathways
to having by 2030 and net zero by 2050.
And that, we -- is scientific. We know that 75 percent of what's going on is due to emissions, and we will not make 1.5 if we do not cut emissions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Right. She's saying that she's actually quite optimistic at this stage of these meetings. That there can be concrete action taken at COP 28.
But, you know, the jury is still -- still out, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes. And that negotiated text at the end is obviously going to sort of, you know -- sort of make the headlines. What we also aren't
reporting from here, and it is hugely important is that away from the kind of fossil fuel debate, our pledges to cut methane emissions, which is
massive, our pledges to triple commitments to triple renewable energy capacity by 2030. That's huge to double energy efficiency by 2030. That's
huge.
All of these things, of course, come with, with complications, not least on the renewable file. What do we do with the grid? What do we do with the
investment in transmission? You know, transmission to trans transmission is also important.
But it is, as we watch what is going on in, hear what is going on, important to reflect where we are seeing these significant commitments,
isn't it?
MCKENZIE: Well, it's also hard to sometimes grasp the enormity of the problem that the world faces.
So, it is important to look where there are successes. I think the announcements around me fan in particular are hugely important.
In terms of the U.S. government and also oil and gas companies, 50 of them, saying they will do better. And this has a demonstrable impact on the
warming planet.
So, it's everything. It's the funding of poorer nations, it's a transition to green energy. It's, as you say, improving the grid in many countries,
like where I am based in South Africa to even handle the types of energy that was supplied by the sun and the wind. You have to do all of it. And
all of those discussions are important.
I think at the end of the day, people will look to a strong commitment to transitioning away from fossil fuels, but you shouldn't ignore all these
other aspects that play their part.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, David. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Well, still ahead, spending needs versus financial reality. with a World Bank says governments haven't even begun committing the trillions needed to
fight climate change.
That discussion with the World Bank's President Ajay Banga is coming up.
And later in the program, my interview with of the worlds During the program my interview with one of the world's most respected figures in
finance.
[10:15:04]
Ray Dalio, He says climate change is just one of the huge challenges
Interview with one of the world's most respected figures in finance. Ray Dalio. He says climate change is just one of the huge challenges facing the
planet today. And he says governments are at an inflection point. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson coming to you from the COP 28 to climate summit here in Dubai.
Well, the president of COP 28 Sultan Ahmed Al Jaber, insisting today that the phasing down and eventual phasing out of fossil fuels remains his
ultimate goal.
The World Bank however, estimates that government will soon need to pledge almost $2-1/2 trillion per year to reach climate transition goals way more
than the billions being committed so far.
That includes helping vulnerable countries cope with climate change, of course.
Well, World Bank president, Ajay Banga sat down with me today to discuss this ongoing climate change fight. He says the climate crisis has to be
tackled on multiple fronts.
I asked him about World Bank's position on phasing out the use of fossil fuels. Have listened
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AJAY BANGA, PRESIDENT, WORLD BANK: We have not been doing cold financing since 2010. We basically don't do any financing of anything to do with
fossil fuels, unless, and it's a very small amount. Unless it's a part of a transition plan in a country.
So, for example, last year, we put $170 million to work in direct financing for a natural gas plant in Central Asia. To put that in context, our total
output last year was $122 billion.
We don't work 0.2 percent that goes into that.
ANDERSON: So --
(CROSSTALK)
BANGA: So, we are very clear that's not where we are going. We are going renewables, we are going methane, we are going in that direction.
ANDERSON: According to campaign group, Oil Change International, those numbers need a little bit more explanation. They say last year, the World
Bank provided over a billion dollars of direct support to the oil and gas industry. You've just explained we're some 100 odd -- was targeted.
(CROSSTALK)
BANGA: No, I tell you what the difference is. So, there are two different things. There is -- there is what we're doing indirect financing. And what
they also include is that we have financed a company or an institution or a bank in another country, as part of IFC or somewhere. And those, in turn,
are doing some, they are counting all the way down to that.
It's like the issue about scope three was the scope two. What I'm talking about is where we are directly involved in the financing. That's 170
million. And I'm quite clear that even if you took their number of a billion, just remember in the context of 120 billion, see where we are
going. We're talking about putting 45 percent of our financing every year into climate financing.
That's $40 billion plus a year. We're talking about doing half of that in adaptation, half in mitigation. And the reason for that is, you cannot make
it only about energy emission.
[10:20:01]
You have to help the global south with what needs to be done with resiliency.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: I see --
BANGA: So, that's kind of the logic.
ANDERSON: I see where you're at $600 billion in government subsidies is the number that a recent World Bank report, put against the fossil fuel
industry.
Bigger than that, the report assesses the harmful impact of indirect subsidies, which amount to $6 trillion a year. I mean, $6 trillion a year.
BANGA: Yes. Yes, yes.
ANDERSON: Where do you stand on these -- on these subsidies for the oil and gas industry?
BANGA: So, I (INAUDIBLE).
ANDERSON: Please explain.
BANGA: I (INAUDIBLE). I was in the opening panel with Mia Mottley, and I got to asked this question. And I talked about 1.25 trillion actually is
the number. It includes fossil fuel and agriculture and fisheries. And 6 trillion is the estimate of the environmental impact.
ANDERSON: It's huge, isn't it?
BANGA: Yes. I've just counting the 1.25. Let's just forget for a minute the environmental impact.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: That's still big.
BANGA: It's still a lot of money. When you -- when you got 125, the question is, therefore, the money is there, they are making choices in
society of where we're investing our money.
And my approach to this is some of those subsidies are probably sensible. If you give somebody a cooking gas cylinder in a poorer country at a
cheaper price, so they don't cut wood or burn coal. Good idea. But is that the only thing we're doing? No.
And therefore, look at the E.U. They used to give $60 billion a year to incent the use of fertilizer in Europe. With all the consequences of runoff
and excessive use, they are still giving the same 60 billion to the farmers, but they've repurposed it to say, use less fertilizer, and I'll
give you the extra 60.
I think how we use our money is the question how we approach this issue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: During our interview, the World Bank president also discussed one contributor to the climate crisis that is oftentimes overlooked, and that
is methane. And there have been significant pledges here at COP 28.
50 major oil companies have agreed to massive cuts in methane emissions by 2030. And that includes the likes of Exxon and Saudi's Aramco.
The World Bank chief believes targeted projects to reduce methane emissions are highly effective, and less expensive than many believe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BANGA: Methane is 80 times more poisonous than carbon dioxide. 80, eight, zero. And it only gets two percent of climate financing. 80 times more
poisonous, two percent of financing. That's a bad equation.
For the last few years, the bank has been running projects in three very specific areas. How you grow rice paddy, if you do it a certain way, you
can drop the methane from that rice paddy growing by 40 percent. Just to be clear, rice paddy is eight percent of methane in the world.
Second, livestock management, how you provide diet and nutrition to cattle? In India, we have done that. Third, waste management separating organic and
inorganic, composting, the organic, and allowing the gas regenerate to get sold.
So, in all three of these not only do you reduce the methane, you increase the income for people. 10 million tons of methane is what we think we can
take up.
ANDERSON: How much will these projects cost?
Billions, but not 10s of billions and not trillions.
Those billions we can do it.
We should do the payback because of the poisonous nature of methane compared to carbon dioxide is worth it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That's the World Bank chief, speaking to me a little earlier.
And for more on COP 28 and the search for these climate solutions, head to cnn.com where there is a lot more to explore on the global fight to lower
greenhouse gases.
Now, to today's "bold pursuits", were scientists at University of California Davis are using artificial intelligence to predict water needs.
For farmers, water scarcity causes a growing problem been spoken about here at COP 28. The U.N. estimates 2.3 billion people live in countries where
water supplies are considered to be stressed.
Well, this pioneering development could revolutionize farming practices and make water use more efficient. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISAYA KISEKKA, DIRECTOR, AGRICULTURAL WATER CENTER: When you talk to farmers, they tell you one of the most -- the biggest threats to their
operations is water. Without water they have no business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isaya Kisekka is conducting research to see if he can assist farmers in better water management. He is turning to artificial
intelligence in the hope that our farmers have a future.
KISEKKA: Where the harm of the artificial intelligence institute for next generation food systems.
[10:25:03]
KISEKKA: Basically, how do you use A.I. in making sure people have enough food to eat. and it's producing an environmentally sustainable way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of California's farmers are increasingly buying their water needs from outside suppliers. It's adding to their costs, and
it brings huge difficulties in predicting their water needs on a day-to-day basis. That's why they are turning to Isaya and his team with their A.I.
research.
Out in the field, they insert microchips into pistachio and almond trees, taking the data and assessing it back in their labs, where they are able to
predict a farmer's water needs up to 10 days in advance.
KISEKKA: So, we used A.I. and some information on soil and weather to make this prediction. So, the farmer now can say, OK, this block is not -- this
block is actually more stressed than this one.
So, I need to put a little bit more water than this block.
If you imagine in California, we will get about 9 million acres. So, imagine, if each farmer served two to three inches, that's a lot of water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's through his research and breakthroughs in artificial intelligence that Isaya remains optimistic about our food and
water security needs in the future.
KISEKKA: My vision is, in the future, we'll have autonomous irrigation systems. Where, you know, there is as little human interaction. If we can
trust these systems, that will help not just with optimizing water, but optimizing energy and reducing greenhouse gas emissions, even level.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: New exchanges of fire across the Israeli Lebanese border again, prompting fears of a two-front war for the IDF. The latest from southern
Lebanon is just ahead.
And as COP Day-five rolls to a close, I sit down with Scotland's first minister to hear what lessons his government learned from hosting their own
COP in Glasgow two years ago?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:30:16]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Becky Anderson.
Lebanese state media reporting new Israeli airstrikes and exchanges of fire across the Lebanese border with Israel. today. You are looking at the plume
of smoke from an artillery strike in southern Lebanon. Much as in Gaza, the end of last week's truce between Israel and Hamas has also led to renewed
fighting with Lebanon's Hezbollah, as worries persist that Israel could be fighting a two-front war.
Our CNN international correspondent Ivan Watson joins us now in southern Lebanon. What's the -- what's the atmosphere like there? What are people
telling you about the potential for this to slip? And what are we seeing so far as evidence is concerned?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure. Well, I'll just say within the last two minutes, I've heard the crash of what sounds like
incoming Israeli artillery to the south of here. The Israeli border is only perhaps 10-15 kilometers from where I'm standing right now.
And all throughout the day, I've been witnessing the impact of artillery rounds in the farm fields here in Southern Lebanon, around these villages
here.
The atmosphere is not normal. The most of the businesses in this part of Lebanon are closed, the schools have been closed now. Now, approaching two
months now with the exchanges of fire going on between Hezbollah militants here in southern Lebanon and the Israeli military on the other side of the
border.
So, it's taking a toll on ordinary people who are having to live with the sounds of war and the -- and the potential threat of it, and it has been
deadly. For instance, Hezbollah says that at least three Hezbollah fighters were killed on Friday and Saturday in different stretches of the border in
different incidents.
Today, Lebanese state media says that a woman and her child were lightly wounded by an apparent Israeli airstrike. A Syrian man in a separate
incident was hurt by some kind of an Israeli blast.
And the Israeli military has confirmed that several soldiers were wounded yesterday by an anti-tank missile fired from this side of the border, and
again today by mortar rounds.
So, this has been an ongoing border conflict. I would describe it as artillery duels across the border. However, the Israeli military has said
that it is used war planes to carry out airstrikes on this side of the border as well.
And despite the threat, despite the fears and the concern, there are surreal signs of life going on. For instance, in a Christian village that I
was in today, I saw people putting up a giant Christmas tree and hanging Christmas lights on it, even as you could see the impacts of Israeli
artillery rounds, only a few kilometers away in the distance. And that just gives you a sign of almost how inured people are in this part of Lebanon to
conflict.
I mean, recall that this is a part of Lebanon that was occupied by the Israeli military for nearly 20 years, up until 2000 -- the year 2000. And
in 2006, there was a vicious all-out war in this border region, with Israeli airstrikes being carried out as far out as Southern Beirut.
We have not seen that level of intensity of combat, yet the fears are is it could escalate and get to that level. Hezbollah, in almost all of its
claims of attacks on the Israeli military, says it's carrying out these attacks to support Palestinians in Gaza. Becky.
ANDERSON: At the same time, Hassan Nasrallah who the head of Hezbollah has made a number of statements, big speeches, some weeks ago now, but two big
speeches, during which many who are regular watchers of this region and of his speeches suggest that there was, to a certain extent, some distancing
of the group from Hamas, and indeed, from getting too involved or ultimately involved in this war and opening up that second front for the
Israelis, and indeed risking this conflict escalating outside of Gaza.
What do you make of what he said, and the conceit of that argument that says there does seem to be some distance between Hezbollah and the
conflict?
[10:35:07]
WATSON: Yes. It's a -- it's a -- it's a -- tricky needle to thread to express support for Palestinians to argue that Hezbollah is this force of
resistance that fights against Israel, and yet, is not committing all of its forces and most powerful weapons to that battle.
And that may have something to do with the state of Lebanon today. While, I think, anecdotally, there's a great deal of popular sympathy, particularly
for civilians in Gaza, and the -- just intolerable civilian death toll there. More than 15,000 civilians killed in under two months of fighting
there.
At the same time, I think there is very little stomach in Lebanese society for a full-fledged war, the likes of which was this country experienced in
2006. And that might be impart due to the many crises that Lebanon has had to endure in the last couple of years. Crises that some would argue are the
making of the governing elites.
So, we had the massive blast in the Beirut port, for which nobody has been prosecuted, and an economic collapse that the World Bank has described as
one of the worst since the 19th century.
The leader of the Maronite Church has gone on record in a Sunday sermon saying that he doesn't want his bullet to drag his country into a war. It
is not Lebanon's business.
And when you have 30 percent unemployment last year, when you've had the middle class in this country, seeing its savings decimated. That's part of
why people are very reluctant to see a repeat of the damage that took place in 2006.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Ivan. Thank you.
Well, sometimes the stories that we report hit very close to home. And sadly, one of our CNN journalists Ibrahim Dahman has suffered an unbearable
loss.
He shared with us pictures of his childhood home in northern Gaza, which we've just learned was decimated in an Israeli strike. These are the last
moments in that home. Then, another strike hours later killed nine members of his family.
Dahman fled with his wife and sons to Egypt, detailing their ordeal in his reporting. And you can read more of this heartbreaking story online
@cnn.com.
With someone who knows the fear of having family stuck inside Gaza is also Scotland's first minister. I sit down with him a month after his in laws
made it out through the Rafah crossing.
Right now, he is here in Dubai for COP 28. Calling on world leaders to take greater action against climate change. All that is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:40:10]
Right now, we are in Dubai. Day five of COP 28. Winding down, my next guest pledge to use his conference -- in this conference to call on other world
leaders to do more and to address the injustices which lie at the heart of our climate crisis.
Because we know that often the countries that pay the price of increasingly extreme weather events are those that have done the least, to cause them.
Just two years ago, his own government was playing host to COP 26, or certainly his country was held in Glasgow in 2021,
Scotland's First Minister Humza Yousaf joins me now, it's great to have you with us.
HUMZA YOUSAF, FIRST MINISTER OF SCOTLAND: My pleasure.
ANDERSON: It's a real pleasure.
Scotland is a world leading energy transition story, there have been delays and those have been costly. Just explain where you are at and what you're
hoping to achieve here.
YOUSAF: Look, first of all, I think your introduction was absolutely spot on. The issue of the climate crisis is an issue actually of injustice.
Scotland has benefited from oil and gas extraction for seven decades or more. We've benefited from industrialization as much as the global north
has.
But the impacts disproportionately of climate change are our friends in the global south are the ones who feel it. So, we have a moral responsibility
to shift from being the oil and gas capital of Europe, which we are to being the net zero capital.
Now, that will take time as a just transition, we have to take the workers with us. And our net zero target is 2045. So, five years ahead of the U.K.
target and many others in the world.
But Scotland is blessed. And if any of your viewers have been to Scotland, it's a rather windy experience, which is maybe not great for the tourist
experience. But it's very, very good for a renewable energy potentially.
ANDERSON: You said that, you know, when there's work to be done, but you're on, you know, you're on track. You have accused Rishi Sunak, who is the
U.K. prime minister of climate denial over his plans to award more oil and gas licenses.
His defense here, when he was here a couple of days ago, is that leaders must tackle climate change with solutions that don't affect people's
finances. And you've just said, you've got to take the workers with you. How do you marry the two?
YOUSAF: Well, first of all, I think Rishi Sunak's attendance at COP is a demonstration of how serious or not he is in terms of climate change. He
was here for all of I think about eight hours. And in fact, he spent more time in a private jet. coming here and going back then he did actually at
COP.
But what we see is let's look at the evidence in front of our eyes. We've never seen the hottest year on record. Not even on record, actually,
according to some in human history, the planet on fire, flooding, droughts. And Rishi Sunak, the U.K. government, and then a note some -- not some new
oil and gas licenses, 100 new oil and gas licenses, flies in the face of the actual -- I think of the climate crisis and the action that we have to
take to tackle it.
So, look, the worst thing that can happen, and we've seen it in America, we've seen it most recently in Argentina is for the issue of the climate to
become a political issue. What we need to do is make sure there's a consensus that we all have to take action.
We can't afford not to take action. An action isn't an option. Well, it is an option. But I'm afraid the consequences of it are dire.
ANDERSON: What will success look like to you at the end of this COP? What are you taking into the negotiations? What does that -- what does that --
what does this statement?
YOUSAF: Yes.
ANDERSON: What does it communicate need to say?
YOUSAF: So, first of all, let's welcome the progress that's made. We really welcome on day zero actually, loss and damage being agreed. In COP 26, we
were the first government to pledge money towards loss and damage in the Global North. And so, we're really pleased to see that the 2 million we
pledge, you know, a relatively small amount that showed leadership has now converted to over 700 million in clutch money.
ANDERSON: That's terrific --
(CROSSTALK)
YOUSAF: That's great. But the second thing we've got to see is progress on fossil fuels. Now, the Scottish position is that we should have a just
transition to phase out fossil fuels and unleash the potential of the renewable sector. Do I think we'll get that at the end of COP 28? I'd love
to see it. I have my doubts. But we have to have something that signals that we have to transition a way and adjust manner away from fossil fuels
and towards renewables.
It's good to have you here.
And it's good to have you identify where you see Scotland out. I know you're no fan of Rishi Sunak, either politically or perhaps will be
ideologically. So, I wouldn't -- I would expect you to, to criticize him, you know, but his attendance, you know, here is a point in case for you and
your position.
Your parents in law, were of course, trapped in Gaza for what was certainly four terrifying weeks. We understand they're back home. How did this
experience impact your family? And just how concerned are you about the situation on the ground at this point?
YOUSAF: Well, can I start by paying my condolences to your colleague, Ibrahim.
[10:45:03]
ANDERSON: Thank you.
YOUSAF: -- for the loss that he suffered.
And look, in terms of my own family, they are completely traumatized. My mother-in-law, when it gets dark, when the Maghrib prayer as it was in
Gaza, the call from Maghrib prayer, the call to prayer went over her body would cease up, because that's when the bombing intensified.
And they wouldn't even have electricity for most of the time. So, now, back in in Scotland, when it gets dark, she has that reaction. But we still have
family then ideas. My wife's brother is a doctor on Al-Nasr Hospital. Her granny is still there, her nieces and nephews are still there.
But actually, even if you don't have family, you would have to have a heart of stone. Fact, you'd have to have no heart at all, I think, to see the
scenes of devastation and destruction, and see the innocent children that are being killed and do anything other than call for a ceasefire.
The violence has to stop, and ultimately, for Israel's own safety. Look, I believe that Israelis and Israel should be safe and peaceful. But if you
destroy entire home, and you leave a father with no children. His wife has been killed, then you tell me what have you got to live for? Except
vengeance.
ANDERSON: Yes.
YOUSAF And I don't want that hatred to continue. Because all it will do is perpetuate the cycles of violence that we see in the future.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed for your thoughts on Ibrahim and his --
(CROSSTALK)
YOUSAF: Thank you.
ANDERSON: -- and his family. And really appreciate your thoughts.
YOUSAF: Thank you.
ANDERSON: And wellbeing for your family as well. Thank you very much.
YOUSAF: Thank you.
ANDERSON: The COP 28 conference here in Dubai gives us an invaluable look at not only the state of climate financing, but global economic trends
generally.
Ray Dalio, who is the founder of the hedge fund giant Bridgewater Associates is warning of the immense funding challenges facing governments
as they deal with the climate emergency.
Take a listen to the big trends he is keeping an eye on.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAY DALIO, FOUNDER, BRIDGEWATER ASSOCIATES: There are five big forces that are at work, and they've been a work throughout history, they've shaped
history.
First, there's the debt, financial, money thing. Right? In other words, we're accumulating a lot of debt around the world, we need more money, but
there is just not enough money.
The second is the amount of internal conflict, populism of the left and the right, wealth and values, differences that are irreconcilable and are
leading to the clash that we're seeing in the United States, particularly, but also in a number of other countries.
Number three, is the great power conflict, right?
The world order is changing. So that no longer is the United States, the sole dominant power, really, China, and the United States and so on.
Number four, throughout history, and now more than ever, is droughts, floods, and pandemics. In other words, climate change, that's why we're
here at COP 28. It's the biggest thing, it's the biggest thing, not only environmentally, but financially. It's an enormous thing.
And then number five, of course, is technology. Right? Technology. How man invents and changes technology changes how we deal with each other.
ANDERSON: You say we are at an inflection point, and you worry about raising more debt to pay off debt. Just explain what you mean, and how that
will have an impact in 24?
DALIO: OK, I want to explain the mechanics of it, you know? If you spend more money than you earn, and you accumulate debt, then, debt service
payments and debt, principal payments, end up being a greater and greater percentage of your income.
And there's a point in that cycle, where that accelerates, particularly, then as interest rates rise to an appropriate level. So, the United States
government has taken on and other governments, European Japanese governments, have taken on a lot of debt, so that they can write checks for
the population.
And as a result, those governments are at an inflection point.
ANDERSON: In this talk very specifically about next year's presidential election, which is likely to be one of the most important of our lifetime.
Do you agree?
DALIO: It will be the most important of our lifetime.
ANDERSON: Tell us why.
DALIO: Because we're at the spot where we have irreconcilable differences. So, if you have the extremes in either party, take control, you will not
have the acceptance by the other party. We're at a time where that the extremes are really almost in control.
And then, when you have irreconcilable differences, you have the risk or even the likelihood of some form of civil war. What I want is a strong
middle.
[10:50:01]
What I pray for is a strong middle of people who can work together to be able to do the right things. Those right things are also will going to
acquire reforms.
ANDERSON: You've identified the U.S. as a superpower in decline as one of your key drivers. You sat with other prominent U.S. businessmen, with the
Chinese President Xi Jinping in San Francisco recently. What's your Outlook after that dinner?
DALIO: We were very, very close to the brink of what would have been an economic war, that would have been disastrous for the world, and even
considering the possibility of military war.
And over the last year, there was a recognition of that problem, and nobody really wants that problem.
And so, that was a stepping back from that brink. And I think that that's a really good thing.
ANDERSON: And let's talk climate. What's your view on long term transformative capital that we know is crucial in the light of where we're
at and the fight against global greenhouse gas emissions?
DALIO: I think the picture is pretty clear that between five and $10 trillion of money has to go into this. And it has to go into it for three
purposes. Either to develop new sources of energy, or to have the cost of cutting those back. And then, also remediating. In other words, when
prepare, put the walls up so that the seam rising doesn't matter.
And you know, those types of costs, so let's call it adaptation. And then, the third cost is the cost of the damage itself. That's going to be costly.
So, anyway, you've cut it's $10 billion a year, $10 trillion a year. Five to 10.
OK. Now, the question is who's got the money? The key there is to unlock that, by being able to make it profitable, to be able to do deals. To be
able to bring, we'll call -- our call a double bottom line.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: According to the IMF, the world needs to invest $6 trillion a year from now until 2050 to achieve the net-zero emissions goal set by the
Paris Agreement. As CNN Academy student, Salma Arafa, explains one financial tool that can help fund this ambitious goal. It's called a Green
Bond. This is her report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALMA ARAFA, CNN ACADEMY STUDENT (voice over): And its concept that only suited up experts understand. So, let me break it down for you.
To grow or expand, governments and companies need cash. We can either borrow from a bank or turn to us by issuing bonds. It's like lending them
money. And in return, they pay interest and return our cash on a said date.
ARAFA: But what makes a bond well green? Let's ask an expert.
DAVID, WORKS AT FIVE HOLDINGS: Basically, a green bond is a vessel for taking money and ensuring that that money is going to help with
environmental projects in the world.
ARAFA (voice over): David works at FIVE Holdings. A Dubai-based real estate and hospitality company, which recently issued green bonds on NASDAQ Dubai
worth $250 million.
[10:55:00]
This matches the budget of the latest Avatar movie. But where is all of this money going?
DAVID: We focused our green bond on what five does best. Developing, right luxury properties that are at the world's highest standard in terms of
environmental to impact mitigation, and also renewable energy, like solar.
But there's a lot more you can do with the green bond. You can focus on water projects. You can focus on biodiversity projects.
ARAFA (voice over): FIVE use the money to acquire properties and spin, aiming to expand and transform them into green buildings. Yet, the end goal
is always the same, bring good investments into green projects.
To ensure that there is money is actually going to finance green projects, companies or governments should abide by the guidelines mentioned in the
green bond principle.
We are talking both developed of the regulation, how to define a green bond and how to define sustainable projects. You know, there is a risk to
prevent the greenwashing.
ARAFA (voice over): The trailblazer behind green bonds was the European Investment Bank, which issued the first climate awareness bond in 2007. To
channel more money into achieving a low carbon economy.
The first and the most important reason that the individuals started like asking a lot of questions regarding the impact of our economy on the
environment.
ARAFA: Going back to Avatar, now we're delving into blue bonds, which invest in projects that protect the marine ecosystem. The question is when
we see more quarters in the future?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Salma's report. That's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson.
Stay with CNN.
END
