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Police Enter UCLA Encampment, Detain Protesters; Israeli Airstrike on Rafah Refugee Camp Kills Child and Toddler; Trump Trial Testimony Resumes after Gag Order Hearing; Nearly 300 Arrested at Columbia, City College of New York; Tehran Bids to Attract Overseas Business amid U.S. Sanctions. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired May 02, 2024 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Welcome back to our special coverage on CONNECT THE WORLD. We are following two major breaking stories. Police are on the
UCLA campus in the States, arresting students and dismantling the pro- Palestinian encampment there.
I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi for you.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Paula Newton in New York, outside the courthouse where Donald Trump's criminal trial has now
resumed, with a new hearing on four more alleged gag order violations.
I will have the very latest in just a few minutes. But first, I want to hand it back to Becky for the latest on these campus protests.
ANDERSON: Thank you, Paula.
And we are following what has been a dramatic series of events unfolding today on UCLA's campus. A short time ago, police cleared the pro-
Palestinian encampment and are now detaining protesters. There is still a gathering of demonstrators at the perimeter of the camp.
Officers are keeping watch on them. Police are also pushing back groups of demonstrators at other points around the campus. Meantime, CNN heard flash
bangs exploding last hour and we are checking into that.
Earlier today an extremely tense scene as police fired what appeared to be rubber bullets on campus as they began clearing the encampment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): UCLA authorities had called for people at the encampment to disperse or risk being arrested. So I want to bring in Mona,
a Muslim student at UCLA for her perspective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Thank you for joining us.
The police are on campus, dismantling the camp. They say that it is illegal.
What's your perspective on what's going on?
MONA, MUSLIM STUDENT, UCLA: For sure.
I think when it comes to my perspective on this encampment for UCLA Palestine solidarity encampment is here to pressure the administration and
we've seen historically how student voices can impact administrations, can conflict, can motivate them to divest and our collective power to be able
to know.
So this type of response is honestly just indicative of how much we've been able to accomplish within our collective power as students and really
pressure the administration of crackdown in response.
ANDERSON: Remind us what you and your fellow protesters have been demonstrating against and why.
MONA: Yes, for sure.
So our biggest reason for being in the Palestine solidarity encampment here at UCLA is because we're against the genocide that's happening in Gaza
right now. We're against the violence that's happening for the Palestinians as a whole.
And we're demanding that UCLA administration, we're demanding that the UC Regents divest from companies, weapon manufacturers, investment management
systems like BlackRock that cause them to profit off of this genocide.
This is something that we're deeply appalled by. We've seeing the numbers from Gaza, we've seen 35,000 people dead and over 600,000 children injured
and imminent invasions of areas of Gaza that have high populations in them.
And this -- these types of catastrophes, this violence, this genocide is something that that we're appalled by. And we want to make sure that UCLA
doesn't profit off of this. And as students that's why we're there.
ANDERSON: University of California rejects calls for Israeli related divestment and boycotts, which have, of course, driven those of you who
have been protesting against the Gaza conflict, against what is going on in Gaza.
And of course, pushing for wider divestment.
[10:05:00]
This is being -- this is a movement which we are seeing across U.S. campuses, a movement which is being dealt with very differently, depending
on which university and which authorities are involved.
How would you rate the way that UCLA authorities have behaved?
MONA: So I think when it comes to the way administrations respond to student demands it really honestly comes down to their profits and their
hesitation to divest so far is really about their profits because being able to invest in war is profitable.
Being able to invest in genocide is profitable and that's insane. And as students, we don't want to live in a world where that is OK. We don't want
to live in a world where we can continue to see that happen and ignore that.
We can't ignore that and, as students, we will continue to push for divestment while UCLA administration has declined to divest.
So far, we've seen that efforts by students in the class, whether here at UCLA or other college campuses to call for divestment, whether it's
apartheid in South Africa, the war in Vietnam or even more recently here at UCLA, using fossil fuels, it is possible to divest.
And we will continue to push, push the administration to divest from the genociding (ph).
ANDERSON: Scenes on the UCLA campus over the past 48 hours have been seen by people all over the world.
Care of organizations like this, social media videos and many watching will have seen the very frightening scenes as counter protesters -- and it is as
yet unclear as to exactly who they were.
Perhaps you would provide your assessment of what happened. But counter- protesters attacking the student demonstrators on campus.
Were you there?
What is your assessment of who those -- who those attacking the pro- Palestinian camp were?
And are you aware of any investigation by police into the incident?
Have you seen any systems put in place, for example, to protect your safety?
MONA: For sure. I think when it comes to the violence that students in the encampment have seen -- I was present when those attacks started on -- I --
honestly, it's been very -- it's very tiring last 48 hours.
And from those attacks to the attacks of last night, that started last night and continued onto early hours of this morning, it's been very hard
to get any sleep. It was -- it started at about 10:40 to -- this is -- it's Thursday.
Now but Tuesday night 10:40 pm and continued until after 4:00 am, 3:00 am. The students of the encampment had to push against these outsiders. They
were aggressors, were not active members of the UCLA community.
We could see like indications that they were ex-soldiers from the IDF. We could see that they were not generally students at UCLA. We could see
generally that they were not active members of the community.
And we could see that, in the way that they treated us, in the way that they harassed us and the way that they threw -- they threw projectiles over
the barrier that the encampment had set up; metal pipes, the wood that they tore off of our barriers to throw back onto the students.
They bear sprayed students, they pepper sprayed students and caused the air to be so thick at that end of the camp that, whether you were sprayed
directly in the face or just simply near, near the like -- near that side, students were impacted.
Students were injured as a result, whether it was more light injuries that could be treated internally within the camp or sent to hospitals nearby who
had ER rooms and were able to meet these students.
The range of injuries were wide. And we could see that in that. And even beyond that, we've seen the videos we -- I witnessed it first-hand, how
they launched fireworks into our camp. Three fireworks were launched into the encampment that night.
And we have had students who have suffered burn injuries as a result of those, especially the first one, which landed on the tents in the
encampment.
[10:10:00]
And as a whole, that night was very terrifying for a lot of students, especially because the university had claimed, up to that point, that they
had hired campus security, private security to protect students' safety.
But we could really see their hypocrisy. We could really see that the campus security, the private security that they brought onto our campus,
wasn't there to protect us because students who begged to them for help --
ANDERSON: Right.
MONA: -- just would stand by. They stood by and watched. They did not help. They did not intervene. They saw these outsiders rush the barriers,
to tear away the pieces, to rush the encampment, to harm students.
And they did nothing. They stood by and watched. And to have that violence enacted on our campus, which is just honestly (INAUDIBLE).
We've seen the parallels of this type of violence to our camp, to the violence that we're seeing in Gaza, to the attacks on Gaza, to the genocide
in Gaza, in the way that the Palestinian people are treated.
It's indicative of the ideology that's behind this genocide. And we saw that continue today.
ANDERSON: This is Mona's assessment of what happened. Mona, I'm going to let you go. It's good to have you on and it's good to get your perspective,
what you saw and felt and have witnessed as a member of the protest group there at UCLA.
I know it's been a terrifically long 48 hours in what has been this weeks- long protest movement, which has spread across the United States.
Earlier, my colleague -- thank you, Mona -- CNN's Max Foster spoke to a professor at UCLA, who was at the protest to support the demonstrators.
This was before the police started clearing them away from that protest site, which has happened over the past few hours. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAEME BLAIR, UCLA ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR: I'm standing here in a line of 15 faculty who have come out here to support students' right to protest
peacefully. These students have been out here for five days and they've been demanding that the University of California divest.
And they've been learning about the history of Palestine and talking to each other about the challenging issues that face us today.
And the University of California and the State of California of Los Angeles have decided to send in the police to clear them out after an extraordinary
and violent set of attacks last night. I wish they decided not to send in the police to protect them from a set of violent attacks. These are police
who are carrying non-lethal rounds --
FOSTER: How are they going to react when the police go in?
BLAIR: -- to protect our students. I'm showing you another set of students. These students are here peacefully and are just asking for the
right to express their ideas on campus, which really is what an academic community should be all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That was earlier as the LAPD made their way onto campus. That campus now is where we find CNN's Josh Campbell at UCLA.
And we know now -- and I can see from behind you that things have -- are very different from that which we witnessed over the past few hours. So
just describe what's going on, where you are now, what you're hearing there.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Becky, covering these protests, they tend to have somewhat of a life cycle, right?
Where things can get amped up and then police come in, they decide that, OK. They're going to clear this area. But we're now at the kind of the back
end of that, where you can feel the tension, the steam kind of being defused here.
What you're seeing right now, this is a line of officers from the California Highway Patrol, obviously they set up in tactical gear. Beyond
them, there's a very small group of protesters that are still here. Just about an hour or so ago, we heard loud chants. The crowd was really, really
vocalizing the anger that they have toward police.
But now you can probably hear, just very, very quiet right now. The officers no longer in that posture where they're at the ready. They're
milling about. But I want to show you what did happen just a few hours ago.
As we pan over, this is what is left of that encampment that has been here for days, law enforcement making the decision to come in; an unlawful
assembly was declared. That means that being in this location is illegal.
Authorities gave a dispersal order and then eventually came in. There are about 250 California Highway Patrol officers that are here, we're told,
from around the state, other law enforcement agencies as well, going through.
They cleared this camp very methodically. They didn't just rush in and start pulling people out.
[10:15:00]
But essentially inch by inch going through. We're told that there were about 250 people who were inside this camp. And right now, Becky, 132 of
them have been placed under arrest.
I don't know if you can see in the background there, there's a prisoner bus where they continue to load up some of the arrestees that have been taken
out of here. There've been several buses that were actually staged nearby and that the FBI's field office here in Los Angeles they're now bringing
them in, taking them out.
They will be processed. We will have to wait and see what type of charges filed, whether it's a trespassing or something similar. But again, this
camp now completely cleared of protesters.
Of course, the big question that happens now is, what happens next?
We've seen that, especially in the evening time here, there can be protesters that come out. Obviously, law enforcement is here on site. They
are here with full force, a massive presence of officers, just to try to ensure public safety. Becky
ANDERSON: Well, that's what they say they were there for and the authorities say that this was an illegal encampment.
What made it illegal is, according to authorities -- and this point, obviously, we don't know what any of these students or individuals will be
charged with and it will become clearer, I guess, at that point.
But what was it that was deemed illegal about this encampment?
CAMPBELL: It's a great question.
I'll step back over here so you can continue to see what's happening behind me. Essentially, what happens is we've seen this -- a protest not just here
at UCLA but across the country -- this is private property. It's a government facility, a public facility in a sense but it is also private
property.
So if the university says, we don't want you here, it's up to the police to then come in and to try to enforce trespassing laws. And we've heard police
officers from coast-to-coast essentially say, look, we're not the ones making the decision to go in.
If there's violence in a particular place, if someone's life is in imminent danger, obviously, law enforcement will rush in and take care of whatever
situation.
But for days and days, they were here, waiting for the university themselves to essentially make the request. Yes, we want this cleared. But
once the university says, just like any private property, that we don't want you on our property, if you remain, that is then illegal.
And obviously the officers came in and conducted those arrests.
ANDERSON: Our reporting out of UCLA at what is just after 7:15 in the morning.
Thank you.
Well, in the midst of this unrest that we are seeing on college campuses, it is important, of course, to take a step back and remember why the
protesters are there: to put pressure largely on colleges to divest from companies linked to Israel's bombardment of Gaza.
In Gaza itself, Palestinian's civil defense and hospital officials in Rafah say two children were killed in an Israeli airstrike at the Al-Shaboura
refugee camp Tuesday overnight. Over 1 million civilians are sheltering in Rafah.
The Israel Defense Forces responded to requests for comment, saying the IDF is operating to dismantle Hamas and it's taking precautions to mitigate
harm to civilians.
But it said, quote, "remaining in an active combat zone has inherent risks," which, of course, begs the question, where are people expected to
go?
CNN's Jeremy Diamond joining us now, live from Jerusalem -- Jeremy.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, I want to bring your attention to the story that we brought you two weeks ago, which was a strike in the
Al Maghazi refugee camp, where, at the time, eight children had been killed. That death toll has now risen to 11.
We often cover these stories, Becky, and then move on to the next one. But in this case, we wanted to go back to the scene. We collected visual
evidence of the crater, of the shrapnel marks, of the wounds on the dead and the injured.
And three munitions experts have now told us that they believe that this strike was likely carried out by a precision guided munitions, deployed by
the Israeli military.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND (voice-over): This grainy home video is the closest Mona Awda Talla will ever get to seeing her 10 year-old daughter.
A stack of school certificates, a wardrobe of her favorite clothes, the perfume she used to wear, all that remains of the daughter Mona poured
everything into.
MONA AWDA TALLA, SHAHED AWDA TALLA'S MOTHER (through translator): There is no Shahed now. Every time she came in, she said mom. I would say my soul,
my soul, my soul is gone.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Shahed was one of 10 children killed when an Israeli airstrike hit the crowded street in the Al Maghazi Refugee Camp where she
was playing with her friends.
Her pink pants impossible to miss among the small bodies splayed around a foosball table in the chaotic aftermath. Two weeks later, the Israeli
military still won't take responsibility for the strike that killed her.
[10:20:00]
CNN provided the IDF with the coordinates and time of the attack based on metadata from two different phones in the immediate aftermath. The IDF said
they did not have a record of that strike.
They said they carried out a strike at a different time than described and that the collateral damage as described in the query is not known to the
IDF. The IDF makes great efforts to mitigate harm to the civilian population from areas where strikes are being carried out.
Evidence recovered and documented by CNN at the scene of the strike paints a very different picture of Israeli military responsibility.
This circuit board and bits of shrapnel, walls and shop steps distinctively pockmarked and a small crater barely a foot wide, all pointing three
munitions experts to the same conclusion, the carnage was likely caused by a precision-guided munitions deployed by the Israeli military.
CHRIS COBB-SMITH, WEAPONS EXPERT: I have seen these strikes so many times. There's a relatively small crater in the road. There's no large shrapnel
holes or fragmentation holes, which would have been caused by, say, a mortar round or an artillery round. The fragmentation is consistent.
DIAMOND: So in your view, this strike was caused by a precision- guided, drone-fired missile?
COBB-SMITH: Absolutely. This is an Israeli ammunition. The local militias, the local forces do not have anything with this amount of sophistication.
DIAMOND: Before carrying out the strike, Israeli drones would have surveiled the Al Maghazi Refugee Camp from above. Seconds later, the
missile hits the street below, landing in the middle of the road, just a few feet away from the foosball table were Shahed and her friends were
playing that day, delivering certain death.
Against all odds, these children have returned to play at the very same foosball table, including some of Shahed's friends.
I miss her a lot, Sama (ph) says, wearing a necklace Shahed made her. She says she was nearly killed with her friends, going home moments before the
strike to drink water.
Others were not as lucky. Eight-year-old Ahmed is fighting for his life, bleeding from his brain, his skull fractured. His chances of surviving are
slim, his doctor explains. He is fighting not to become the 11th child killed in that same strike.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And Becky, we received sad news this morning, which is that that little boy, Ahmed, actually died early this morning after our report aired. He
becomes the 11th child to have been killed in the strike -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Well, I'm sorry. Jeremy, thank you for your reporting.
Let's get you to New York, where Paula Newton is outside the Manhattan criminal court -- Paula.
NEWTON: Thanks so much, Becky.
I'll have more on Donald Trump's hush money trial. After the break, we will hear about what happened in court regarding those alleged new violations of
the gag order. Stay with us.
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NEWTON: So testimony has just resumed in Donald Trump's hush money trial. That was following a second gag order hearing.
Now the judge is weighing more alleged gag order violations against Trump. The former president was already fined this week for violating that order.
And Trump's attorney told the judge Trump has to speak to the press because he's running for president and needs to defend himself.
Now earlier, the prosecution described the four times it claims Trump actually breached that order. They want the judge to fine Trump again but
said they, this time, are not seeking jail time. Attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin joins us from Los Angeles.
And you've been following this case very closely. Some interesting points made regarding the gag order and these alleged violations essentially right
now, four at issue.
I wonder how the judge can actually parse this, given the fact that one of the alleged violations was Trump saying at one of his political events that
the jury was 95 percent Democratic.
I mean, where do you see that in terms of an alleged violation?
AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's pretty clear that two things can be true at the same time. Donald Trump can be a candidate
running for president and active on the campaign trail without making comments about the judge, the jury and the witnesses in this case. They're
not mutually exclusive.
He's able to go out and talk about his policies. He is able to talk about what he's going to do as president without ever, ever mentioning any of the
prohibited witnesses and juries that have been identified in the gag order.
And his lawyer continues to make these really unjustified and somewhat ridiculous arguments that, because he's running for president, he should be
allowed to violate the gag order. And that's absolutely not true.
Donald Trump is not above the law and he should be held to account in the way that any other criminal defendant would be held to account if there's a
gag order issued by the judge.
NEWTON: I've been saying that, look, this has to at some point be a deterrent factor. It was made clear that after he was fined last week, that
it doesn't seem as if so far there are any allegations that he violated the gag order after he was fined the $9,000.
I do want to talk to you about something in that ruling that the judge said. He said that the gag order cannot be a sword instead of being a
shield, meaning Trump cannot be attacked by people like his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, and be unable to defend himself legally.
Where's the line there?
Because Michael Cohen has said some pretty provocative things about the president.
MARTIN: It's a pretty fine line. Obviously, gag orders are an extreme measure.
Typically you don't need gag orders in cases but Donald Trump has an inability or shown an inability to treat the legal system, judicial system
with a deference that you typically would see from a criminal defendant.
This is just so unusual on so many fronts. You typically would not see a defendant having to be brought into court on so many occasions to respond
to allegations by the prosecution that he has violated the gag order.
And we know from prior trials that Trump's comments about jurors in particular can create a very negative effect and have a very chilling
effect on individuals' even desires to participate in trials.
But I do think that the last finding, the $9,000, is starting to have an impact on Donald Trump. We know he doesn't have a lot of respect apparently
for the instructions of his attorneys. But it appears that we may see a turn in the way that he responds to questions and the way that he's
campaigning.
NEWTON: Right now, we have Keith Davidson on the stand. He's the lawyer that arranged the so-called hush money payments for both Stormy Daniels and
Ms. McDougal. What is crucial here is what the prosecution needs to do, is link it not to Michael Cohen, not to Mr. Davidson but link it back to the
president.
Can you do this the way, in a methodical way and still not lose the jury?
Because at this point everything seems to point back to Michael Cohen and not to the former president.
MARTIN: Yes, the prosecution definitely has the burden of establishing that it wasn't just some rogue lawyer or some lawyer or fixer, as Michael
Cohen was called, that was making these deals.
[10:30:03]
The prosecution has to unequivocally establish that these deals were being cut because Donald Trump, intentionally and purposefully, wanted these
stories about Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels suppressed in the media.
He was concerned that if those stories were revealed, that they would have a negative impact on the election and that it was him giving the orders to
Michael Cohen, it was him orchestrating the entire deals with the "National Enquirer."
If the prosecution fails in making the link to Donald Trump, jurors are not likely to believe that Donald Trump has any culpability and could acquit
him.
NEWTON: Yes. And again, it is reasonable doubt.
Only one juror having reasonable doubt and that means he will not be convicted of these allegations. Areva, thanks so much as always, really
appreciate it.
Next on another dramatic day on American campuses, we speak with a professor at one of those colleges where there have been ongoing protests
and ask what can be done to truly address the situation. Stay with us.
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ANDERSON: Welcome back.
You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me. Becky Anderson, here on CNN, broadcast to you out of our Middle East hub just after 6:30 in the evening.
Sit-ins run-ins and face-offs, we are seeing conflict and confrontation flaring on campuses across the United States. In Los Angeles, authorities
have now cleared the encampment at UCLA in the past hour. They moved in earlier, firing what appeared to be rubber bullets, according to a CNN team
on the ground.
A UCLA grad student, who's also a member leader of the Jewish Voice for Peace, explained to CNN some of the ongoing demands of the protesters.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BENJAMIN KERSTEN, STUDENT LEADER, JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE, UCLA: The encampment has a number of key demands; among them being calling for
divestment from weapons manufacturing, which primarily happens through the asset manager, BlackRock.
[10:35:00]
But also divestment from companies that are complicit in Israeli occupation and apartheid. Other demands include adhering to the guidelines of the
academic boycott, taking position as a position on the necessity of immediate and permanent cease-fire in Palestine and ending the repression
of how Palestinians and their advocates on campus.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, on the other side of the United States, around 300 were arrested at both Columbia University and City College of New York.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): You're looking at images of police pushing back protesters earlier this week around the time protesters had also barricaded
themselves into Columbia's famous Hamilton Hall.
Authorities since said that they are trying to determine exactly who amongst those arrested are actually affiliated with the universities and
who are not. Protests, too, at the City University of New York. Stephanie Luce is a professor there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: She says, she rushed to City College when she got reports that the NYPD were on the scene and she joins me now.
I want to talk about New York in a moment but, first, what do you make of the scenes that have been playing out in the past few hours in Los Angeles?
STEPHANIE LUCE, CUNY SCHOOL OF LABOR AND URBAN STUDIES: It's terrifying to watch because I think what we've seen across these campuses is that
students are engaging in a peaceful protest. And suddenly they're confronted with either violent counter protesters or police attacks.
And it's really terrifying.
ANDERSON: Can you just explain your experience when you arrived at the protests at City College in New York earlier this week?
LUCE: Sure.
Yes, I arrived to find hundreds and hundreds of police surrounding the campus. They had erected a fence around the campus. The university had told
the students to leave on Wednesday.
But the students were surprised Tuesday night when the New York police began erecting this fence and trapping students inside. I was stunned by
the volume of police there, given that it had been a peaceful encampment.
And what I saw were police rushing the crowd. I was on the sidewalk. We were on the sidewalk, which is legal. They would rush us and randomly pull
people out to arrest them. I saw people like fall and get hurt.
And I talked to many students who were traumatized by what they had experienced inside the fence. They had been trapped inside. Some of them
with batons against their necks, some of them being thrown and pushed.
And they were not told anything for half an hour, when they were finally given the chance to leave the fence and come out. And they were terrified.
ANDERSON: Is it your assessment that students are being kept safe, that your institution is actively trying to ensure the safety of students at
this point?
LUCE: Not of the students at the encampment at all. I feel that there was no provocation, there was no need -- even the president of the university's
letter to the NYPD said that the problem was that there were tents on campus and flags. This is not a danger. I think it was students were safe.
The campuses were safe.
They were only then unsafe once the police arrived and began arresting and brutalizing the students.
ANDERSON: This time yesterday, as I was reporting on the images from around these U.S. campuses, we took a news conference live from Mayor Eric
Adams, alongside the deputy commissioner -- I think it was for the NYPD -- on the police response in New York.
And I just want you and our viewers just to hear part of what was said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D-NY), NEW YORK CITY: We are process the arrest to distinguish between who were actually students and who were not supposed to
be on the ground.
And we pointed out yesterday, these external actors, with a history of escalating situations and trying to create chaos, not to peacefully protest
but create chaos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Look, let's be quite frank. We know that there can be people -- and we've got evidence to suggest that there are some who aimed to take
advantage of protest situations.
Have you witnessed that?
[10:40:00]
And how should colleges and law enforcement be dealing with such outside agitators, for want of a better word?
LUCE: I was frankly shocked by Mayor Adams' statement. The minute I arrived on the -- at City College, I ran into many of my students, former
students, my colleagues. They were the people there, looking to defend the campus and defend the protests.
It's also that the City University of New York is the city's university. There's hundreds of thousands of students, faculty and staff and alumni. I
think that Adams is not understanding that we are all part of the CUNY community.
I don't understand what an outside agitator is in this sense, because people feel very invested in CUNY as a public university and our right to
engage in pushing for the university to be doing the right thing.
But I have to say, from my experience, this is a students, faculty, staff and alumni protest.
ANDERSON: Let's just step back for a moment, because what we've witnessed here are hundreds of protesters, who've now been arrested, possibly more
than 1,000, in what has been a weeks-long movement, demonstrating over the Gaza conflict and calling for divestment of -- by these institutions.
This has put students at odds ofttimes with those who are leading these universities. At Brown, at least, the administration has agreed to hold a
vote, as I understand it, later this year on divestment. We've seen a very different response from university administration, administrators
elsewhere, of course; at Columbia; CUNY, I guess, and UCLA.
What's your sense of what we are seeing and how these different leaderships, as it were, are responding to what is going on on these
campuses?
LUCE: Yes, I've been a professor for 25 years, so I'm used to student protests and these happen a lot, even building occupations. And often what
the students are asking us for is a democratic voice in how their universities are run.
And the fact is the board of trustees at many universities, my own included, are themselves not affiliated with the university. I think that
what Brown did is to say, OK, let's take this to a vote and have it be a university decision as to how we run this.
And I think and I wish other universities had a similar approach. We've seen it on other issues. We know universities can do this. It's about
giving students and faculty and staff a voice in what they think should be a priority for the school.
ANDERSON: Thank you for joining us and thank you for your time at, what, 10:45 in the morning New York time; 6:45 here in the UAE. Thank you.
CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem has been providing context for us as policemen moved in on the UCLA protesters earlier today. Here's
her take on what could have been done to make the operation go more smoothly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: This is where communication is key.
What does the LAPD, where are they saying?
What are they saying to the students?
Where is academic leadership?
Why are they just handing this over to police officers?
Like this is not ideal from the perspective of the community that exists there and the community that had been peaceful for the last week until
others came in to escalate it. So hopefully we'll hear from sort of leadership that can communicate across these different stakeholders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Juliette Kayyem reporting there.
And I can now report that, in the next few minutes, the U.S. President, Joe Biden, is expected to make remarks on the White House lawn about the campus
protests.
We will take that. We're going to take a very quick break before that, stay with us.
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[10:45:00]
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NEWTON: Happening right now here in New York, testimony in Trump's hush money trial resumes with Keith Davidson taking the stand. Davidson says he
helped negotiate the deals to silence Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal over their alleged encounters with Trump in 2016.
Now before the trial resumes, Judge Merchan presided over another gag order violation hearing for Trump. The former president was already fined, you'll
remember this week for violating that order about $9,000. In fact, says CNN's U.S. national correspondent Brynn Gingras is here outside the Lower
Manhattan courtroom.
Thanks for joining us. I do want to get to your impressions of what goes on in courtroom itself. You were there last week. Before we get to that though
the issue of Keith Davidson and the lawyer. This is about Michael Cohen and Keith Davidson had an agreement. They talked. This was so-called hush
money.
The issue is linking it back to Donald Trump.
In terms of what we're hearing, what are prosecutors doing in terms of trying to really bring the connection back to the former president?
Because the former president has said, I didn't know these women.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
NEWTON: And I don't know anything about this deal.
GINGRAS: I don't sign things --
(CROSSTALK)
GINGRAS: -- people do for me, right?
That's their defense. It looks like right now with Keith Davidson and then the people will probably see after this, it really is showing all the back
channeling that is happening, right?
And kind of that's almost in Trump's favor, right now. Right, because they're showing there were pseudonyms named on these agreements. They were
shell companies that were set up to make the payments back and forth.
But there was a moment just now where Keith Davidson -- or rather the prosecutors basically pointed to one of these agreements that were made,
where Donald Trump has signed the paperwork.
Now, do I think that's a big smoking gun?
Who knows?
But the point is, like you said, prosecutors are really trying to figure out how to show jurors that Trump had some say in this. And I think they're
actually just starting to get to it now because they're talking about Karen McDougal and the agreements that Davidson and Cohen made together about
Karen McDougal.
And how, when she came forward and talked publicly how Donald Trump was calling Cohen and Cohen was calling Davidson, yelling, saying, why is she
going forward?
Why, what -- my boss is very mad.
Now they're not showing, listen, you're not hearing audio Trump saying this. It's all coming through from Davidson about Cohen. But they're really
working right now trying to figure out how to really pinpoint this on Trump, knowingly making these arrangements through Cohen.
NEWTON: And a good reminder, right.
Brynn, this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he had the affair. He knew these women. No, this has to do with white collar crime and
what you did to cover up these payments, which were again, were supposed to be involved in campaign finance.
Brynn, you were in there last week. I noticed this morning, while he had his son, Eric, in there with him last week, he's not there today. I mean,
just give us a sense of the atmospherics.
GINGRAS: Yes. You know, he, Donald Trump inside, he's engaged, talking to his lawyers but a lot of the times he really does sit back. And it's almost
like the best way I can describe is he's taking it in. It's hard to tell if he's paying attention or is he really paying attention, you know.
When you're trying to really think of something, you close her eyes and listen. So that's what's happening now. Whether or not some people have
interpreted that as he's sleeping and other people think that that's him really trying to focus on what's being said in the testimony.
So he's doing that a lot but he is conversing with his main attorney, Todd Blanche, a lot. And there was "The New York Times" reporting last week that
said that he's aggravated with Blanche, wants him to be more aggressive out there. So maybe he's giving some sort of direction.
[10:50:00]
While obviously we don't know what he's saying. But also, I wasn't in actual courtroom is an overflow, so I can't see the jurors in that room but
there are of course, our colleagues in the actual courtroom and jurors are engaged.
They report that they are taking notes. They are ping-ponging with their heads whenever a question is asked. They go to the witness and back to the
person asking the question, whether it be the defense or the prosecutors.
I mean, this is certainly a trial that has a lot of flair to it, with the people that are going to be taking the stand, from Michael Cohen, Keith
Davidson, Stormy Daniels and, of course, the former president sitting at the defense table.
So you wonder if jurors will still stay engaged in such a trial. And it seems like they are.
NEWTON: They also have to look at these documents, right.
And sometimes that's kind of difficult in terms of trying to look on the screen and look at these documents.
GINGRAS: Yes, they have to look at the documents and that can get very dense, right?
I mean that can really make jurors kind of snooze a little bit but that does look like they are constantly trying to figure out what documents this
role plays because, remember, you just mentioned it, 34 falsifying business records is the charge. So it's going to be document-heavy. So --
(CROSSTALK)
NEWTON: -- sign them and sue why, allegedly, they --
(CROSSTALK)
NEWTON: -- Brynn, good. We will continue to come back. We really appreciate it.
And we'll be back in a few moments. I will remind everyone that we are waiting for President Biden to make remarks on the student protests. We
will bring that to you live as soon as we have it. But right now we're going to take a quick break.
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ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. I'm Becky Anderson. All this week, our Fred Pleitgen has been in Iran, a country whose economy has been ravaged by
years of U.S. sanctions. He takes a look at how it is trying to bring in business.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An international trade fair in one of the most sanctioned countries in the
world. It's called the Iran Expo and is the Islamic Republic's attempt to market its products to businesses willing to defy U.S.-led sanctions.
PLEITGEN: Iran's leadership has said that, in order to try and beat the sanctions, what they want to do is develop their own homegrown industries,
like the automobile industry, and then hopefully export items like these around the world.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Tehran showcasing everything, from heavy machinery to food products, hoping for international buyers. It seems like a tall
task. But as large economies like Russia and China increasingly find themselves under Western economic pressure, the Iranians hope they'll be
more open to doing business with Tehran.
We even met a parliamentarian from Mali, saying he'd do an interview but only in Russian.
"Right now, we have dynamic growth in the medical sector in the first place," he says, "and we're also interested in widening cooperation in the
oil sector and also general trade."
Iran's economy has been ravaged by what the U.S. called maximum pressure, designed, the U.S. claims, to compel it to stop its support for extremism,
halt its crackdown on protesters and agree to a tougher nuclear deal.
Unemployment and inflation are high while Iran's currency continues to devalue. Iran is working with other adversaries of the West, like Russia.
"The cooperation we have in the energy sector and agriculture, education and development.
[10:55:00]
"And the contact between our scientists, in all these directions, we can take further steps," Iran's president said at a recent meeting with Russian
leader Vladimir Putin.
And Iran wants to rely not only on oil and gas but also on manufacturing, the country's deputy industries minister tells me.
"The reality is that sanctions have two faces," he says, "the damaging side but the other side is that it makes you believe in your capabilities and
become independent."
But the Iranians acknowledge Western sanctions are a major hurdle not only when it comes to making their products but also trying to sell them abroad
-- Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, a reminder of our top story -- and we are standing by for U.S. President Joe Biden, who is expected to speak at the White House about
the ongoing protests on college campuses across the United States.
We've watched along with you throughout the day as officers detain pro- Palestinian protesters and dismantle their encampment at, for example, UCLA.
Well, that encampment was deemed illegal and there were some incredibly tense moments before dawn. We have learned there were more than 200 people
entrenched there at one point, refusing to leave. Around half of them were arrested and, in the light of day, calm has now been restored.
That's it for this hour. I will be back, though, very shortly with more.
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END
