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Connect the World

CNN International: Iran's FM Expresses Confidence Assad will Defeat Rebels; U.S. President Biden Pardons Son Hunter in Criminal Cases; Protests Rock Georgia Amid Plans to Suspend EU Talks; Secretary-General Antonio Guterres Calls Meeting a "Moonshot Moment" for U.N. to Protect, Restore Land; 16th U.N. Summit on Desertification Starts in Saudi Arabia. Aired 9- 9:45a ET

Aired December 02, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, hello and welcome to a special edition of "Connect the World". I'm Becky Anderson, coming to you

today, live from COP 16 in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia. That is right. We are at another COP, short for Conference of the Parties.

Now many of you will be familiar with COPs focused on climate change, of course, and biodiversity. This one is meant to tackle an issue that often

flies under the radar, land degradation. It is a crucial yet overlooked piece of the global conversation on the climate crisis.

And we are here to shine a spotlight on it. And the reason is simple. If we don't act to protect and regenerate our land now, the result will be more

food insecurity, which leads to more conflict and more enforced migration. It really is that simple and that stark.

Well, today, the U.N. for the first time, quantified the cost of restoring the world's degraded land saying at least 2.5 trillion dollars needs to be

invested by the end of this decade. That is $1 billion a day, a huge ask, especially at a time when the world is grappling with so many competing

conflicts, but for the hosts here, not acting is simply not an option.

Well, earlier, Saudi Arabia's Climate Envoy Adel al-Jubeir told me how this region knows firsthand, the impacts of desertification and why we need to

act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADEL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND CLIMATE ENVOY: Our region suffers from lack of water. Our region suffers from lack of plants.

Our region is suffering from increasing temperatures, and we want to reverse this trend. We want to set an example. We want to lead this effort.

We want our region as well as the world, to focus on the importance of dealing with this issue, and the fact that this issue is not limited to

desert countries or countries in the Middle East or in North Africa. This is an issue that has an impact on everybody, just like climate does, just

like water does.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And a lot more from my interview with Adel al-Jubeir and the other key players here at COP 16 later in the show. Well, speaking of

conflict, Syria calling on its allies as it attempts to stop a surprise rebel offensive. The Syrian and Russian militaries have been carrying out

bombing raids in Aleppo, in Idlib and Hama, trying to slow what is a rebel advance.

Now, the White Helmets, Volunteer Rescue group says Syrian air strikes killed more than a dozen civilians in Idlib today. The group releasing

footage of the chaos on the ground as Bashar al-Assad's government fights its greatest challenge in nearly a decade.

Iran's Foreign Minister visiting Damascus on Sunday, expressing Tehran's support and confidence that the Syrian regime will prevail. Well CNN's Ben

Wedeman is following developments. He joins us now live. This is complicated, Ben. What is happening on the air and -- in the air and on the

ground as we understand it in Syria, and why now, Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Becky, over the last few days, what we -- sort of lightning rebel offensive, retaking most of

Aleppo -- seemed as they were entering into the heart of that ancient city, going to the Citadel and elsewhere that they were running into very little

in the way of resistance from the armed forces of the Syrian government.

What we've seen since then, however, is that the Russians and the Syrian regime have really ramped up their airstrikes on positions that have been

taken by the rebels recently -- fire on Idlib provinces -- largely but now totally under the control of the rebels, but -- sort of counter offensive

by the regime and its Russian supporters.

What we have seen is that the rebels have been able to take lots of territory along what's known as the M5 highway -- the north south -- with

Damascus -- approach the northern edges of the City of Hama, the central Syrian city of Hama. But it does appear that the focus of the regime in

Damascus now is really to bolster its support, to sort of re-energize its connections with Iran, where we saw yesterday the Iranian Foreign Minister,

Abbas Araghchi, meeting with Bashar al-Assad.

And he's also been on the phone with the Russian leader and others, trying to make sure that those powers, Russia and Iran in particular, that have

traditionally supported the Assad dynasty continues to stand behind them. But of course, Iran, what we've seen over the last year its forces in Syria

have come under repeated, punishing strikes by the Israelis taking out senior commanders. And of course, the Russians are distracted by their war

in Ukraine, Becky.

[09:05:00]

ANDERSON: Our Senior International Correspondent, Ben Wedeman, on the story. Ben, thank you. That's the latest in and from Syria. Meantime, a

far-right Israeli Minister says that Israel should not allow residents of Southern Lebanon to rebuild homes near Israel's border.

Speaking to CNN Affiliate Kan on Monday. Israel's Finance Minister said many houses that were destroyed had been quote used for military purposes

on the comments -- displaced Lebanese, of course, returned to their homes and less than a week into a cease fire deal between Israel and Hezbollah.

Israel has carried out several strikes in Lebanon since that truce came into effect, many Lebanese people say they want this fragile cease fire to

hold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, everything is fine. We hope the situation will stay calm. Everything will be fine. The country return to how was the

army takes control of everything, and no weapons remain with anyone. This is just what we want and for people to be at ease again. People want to

live. Our children want to live, grow up and see this world. They have not seen anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, a voice in Beirut. I want to get there now. CNN's Clarissa Ward is in the city. Closer start with those comments about Israel not

allowing houses to be rebuilt in Southern Lebanon. How are those comments being received locally?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there hasn't been any type of official response yet, Becky, but certainly this would

feed into the worst fear of many Lebanese people, which is that those areas, those homes, most of which have been decimated by consistent air

strikes on those areas, will be rendered further uninhabitable because of a potential reluctance, or indeed an actual order, to refuse to allow those

homes to be rebuilt.

As of now, you mentioned that thousands of people, Becky, have returned to their homes. Well, there are many more who are simply unable to go back to

their homes. The IDF has said, I believe it's about 60 villages that are still inaccessible. People are being told not to move into those areas.

And all of this sort of part of this really delicate bit of choreography that is expected to transpire over the coming now, just under 60 days,

during the course of which the IDF is supposed to pull back from those areas. And Hezbollah is supposed to pull back 25 miles from the border,

just north of the Litani River.

And the Lebanese army is expected to move down into those areas to sort of oversee the extraction of Hezbollah. So obviously, there are a lot of

moving parts, when it comes to that, we have seen and heard of multiple cases of violations of the cease fire. But broadly speaking, it does appear

to be holding.

And it is very much, Becky, the fervent desire of the vast majority of Lebanese people that it does continue to hold, because this is a country

that has been beleaguered by this war, the cost has been incredibly high, not just in terms of the high number of casualties, roughly 4000 people

killed.

But also, in terms of the economic price that Lebanon has paid the World Bank saying $3.4 billion in physical damage to actual buildings. But beyond

that, an estimate of $5.1 billion in economic losses. And this, taken against the backdrop of Lebanon's already beleaguered economy, has really

resulted in a situation that is simply unsustainable for so many people who are struggling to survive here.

So, the hope that we have found in the conversations that we have had is very much that this cease fire, shaky, though it may be, will continue to

hold, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah, absolutely. So many of those displaced, of course, moving into Syria, where we now see so much action as well. So, I'm sure people in

Lebanon keeping one eye on what is going on there across the border as well. Clarissa, thank you.

[09:10:00]

Well. Meantime, the Israeli military has confirmed the death of an American-Israeli soldier, the hostage and missing family's forum says 21-

year-old Omer Maxim Neutra was killed during the Hamas terror attacks on October the seventh last year. The forum described Omer as a warm,

optimistic person who loved sports.

With less than 50 days left in office, U.S. President Joe Biden has made a move he vowed he'd never make. He has issued a full and unconditional

pardon of his son Hunter. The following reaction for you on that. Plus, Donald Trump wasting no time criticizing Mr. Biden over that decision.

We'll tell you what he said after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcome back. U.S. President Joe Biden has pardoned his son Hunter who faced sentencing this month for federal tax and gun convictions.

Now this pardon spares the president's son from a potential prison sentence. Sunday's controversial move comes after Mr. Biden repeatedly

insisted that his son would not receive a pardon or special treatment in his criminal cases.

Well, the president explained in a statement, and I quote partly, no reasonable person who looks at the facts of Hunter's cases can reach any

other conclusion that under was singled out only because he is my son, and that he said is wrong. CNN's Arlette Saenz following President Biden on his

trip to Luanda, Angola, the last trip certainly scheduled trip for Joe Biden as president.

Why did this pardon, Arlette happen now? And what more is Biden's Administration saying about it?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, President Biden issued this full and unconditional pardon for his son Hunter Biden. Really

a stunning reversal. After spending months saying that he would not make this move. Now, President Biden reached this decision over the Thanksgiving

holiday as he was spending time with his family, including son Hunter in Nantucket, Massachusetts.

I'm told that the president began informing senior staff on Sunday night about this decision. He had called a meeting when he arrived back at the

White House to tell them he was going to move forward with a pardon. And in that meeting, the president told his senior staff that he wanted them to

prepare to release a statement about the decision on Sunday.

The team gathered again Sunday morning to finalize those details. And ultimately, the president announced his decision in a very late statement

on Sunday evening, saying that he has wrestled with this decision, but that ultimately, it's a decision that he is making as a father.

[09:15:00]

In Biden's view, he believes that his son Hunter Biden was maligned by Republicans, and that many of these charges were brought with political

motivations in mind. The president, in his statement, wrote, quote, there has been an effort to break Hunter who has been five and a half years

sober, even in the face of unrelenting attacks and selective prosecution.

In trying to break Hunter, they've tried to break me, and there's no reason to believe it will stop here. Enough is enough. Now the president, in his

statement, does not mention his reversal in any way, back in June when both before and after Hunter Biden was convicted of felony gun charges in

Delaware.

The president, at the time, had said that he was not considering a pardon of his son, that he respected the independence of the judicial system. But

now there has been a complete 180-degree turn. Now for President Biden, he has been traveling over the past 12 hours here to Angola.

He has so far ignored reporters' questions, but he certainly will face many questions going forward, especially as he has staked so much of his

political career on respecting and trying to restore the independence of the judicial system. But President Biden, in this case, very much felt that

he needed to step in and pardon his son, Hunter Biden.

ANDERSON: And Arlette, he would have expected there to be enormous reaction, both from his allies and his opponents. What are we seeing out

there?

SAENZ: Well, Republicans were very quick to criticize President Biden, perhaps unsurprisingly, but what has been interesting is that there's

really been a split reaction among Democrats. There are some Democratic lawmakers who say that the president is putting family over country and

that he should not have done that.

But then there's others who agree with the president that the charges that were brought against Hunter Biden would not have been brought up in court

if there it was another just anonymous person who was facing these charges. One of the president's supporters is Former Attorney General Eric Holder,

who had posted on social media that he didn't think that these charges should have been brought against Hunter.

So certainly, a lot of the reaction from Republicans has been quite predictable, but it's interesting to see the democratic split, with many

believing that the president should not have pardoned his son, but others agreed with the president's case that he made in that statement.

ANDERSON: Yeah, absolutely. Arlette, good to have you. Arlette is in Angola, traveling with U.S. President. One unsurprisingly, Donald Trump,

quick to react. He posted on his social media site Truth Social calling the pardon a quote, miscarriage of justice, and asked if the pardon would

include his supporters who attacked the U.S. capital on January the sixth.

Well, it's notable that Trump himself had not ruled out pardoning Hunter Biden himself. In a radio interview in October, he said it's not off the

table. Well, let's get more now. Alayna Treene joins us live from West Palm Beach in Florida. You won't have to make that decision now, because, of

course, Joe Biden has pardoned his son. We've heard from the president- elect. What about the Trump team? What are they saying about this?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: All right. Well, I'll say this, Becky, Donald Trump's team is very quick to try and argue that this supports the claims

that they've made over the past several years, that they believe that the Biden Administration and Joe Biden specifically have been weaponizing the

justice system in the United States against his political opponents, namely Donald Trump.

I'll read for you now, what we heard from Steven Cheung, a Donald Trump spokesman, just moment after this pardon was announced. He said, quote, the

failed witch hunts against President Trump have proven that the Democratic controlled DOJ and other radical prosecutors are guilty of weaponizing the

justice system.

The system of justice must be fixed and due process must be restored for all Americans. He went on to say that Donald Trump would be doing that. Now

I'll say this. We've heard from many of Donald Trump's allies, including Republicans in Congress, but also many members of Donald Trump's transition

team and those he is appointed to be in his cabinet.

Really arguing again that they believe that this calls for a big shakeup and change at the FBI and at the Department of Justice, and this is

something we know that Donald Trump has really been fixated on behind the scenes. He wants sweeping changes in government and mainly at the Justice

Department to carry out what he wants, what he calls, really as bias.

What he said is bias among many of the agents at the Bureau. That's why we know that his decision on who he would have selected for attorney general,

first, it was Matt Gaetz, later, now Pam Bondi. And also, his recent pick of Kash Patel to be the next FBI Director, were two of the most important

decisions that he thought about in his mind, because he wants to really root out what he has believed has been a deep state.

[09:20:00]

So called deep state, as he calls it, that has been determined to bring unjustifiable investigations and prosecutions against him and his allies.

Now I do want to also just note what Donald Trump said specifically and in addressing him, asking Joe Biden if any of his pardons would include the

January 6th convict.

This is what Donald Trump wrote as well. Moments after that announcement, he said, quote, does the pardon given by Joe to Hunter include the J-6

hostages who have now been imprisoned for years, such an abuse and miscarriage of justice. Now, Becky Donald Trump campaigned repeatedly on

this pledge to pardon the January 6th comments those who committed crimes for their role in that capital attack.

But I will say that ever since he won the election on November 5, we -- he's kind of been silent on this issue. We haven't heard him address it.

Now I know that there's been some Republicans and others who have been kind of skeptical about what a sweeping pardon for many of these people would

look like.

Many of his supporters, Donald Trump supporters, have argued that they are expecting maximum clemency, even for some of the most violent offenders

that day. So, all to say, it's very unclear what Donald Trump will actually do. This is the first time that we're seeing him kind of hint at wanting to

fulfill that promise that he made repeatedly over the last couple of years.

ANDERSON: And you mentioned his pick for FBI Director, Kash Patel. Who is he?

TREENE: Well, Kash Patel is a fierce loyalist of Donald Trump, one of the most hardline conservatives that supports him. He previously worked at the

Justice Department, but also was in Donald Trump's first administration, in several different national security roles, but he is very controversial as

well.

He has made many claims and criticisms of the FBI, including arguing that he wants to shut down the Bureau's Washington headquarters, that he wants

to fire FBI leadership, and also has said that he's committed to firing large swaths of agents within the bureau to really root out that bias that

I was mentioning that Donald Trump and him believe is permeating the FBI over the last several years.

Now he like Trump, is very distrustful of the agency. And again, has made many controversial statements, including arguing that Donald Trump should

seek retribution against political opponents. He's also talked about wanting to seek retribution against American journalists.

All of this has led to some skepticism behind the scene, including from some of those close to the president-elect, about whether or not Patel was

right for the role. I was told that he was actually being considered and pushed by many people to be deputy director, rather than the director

itself, because there are concerns that he may not be able to get confirmed by the Senate.

Now I'm also told, Becky, that Donald Trump was really wavering in recent days between two different people to replace Christopher Wray. I should

also note that Donald Trump would have to fire the current FBI Director, Christopher Wray, who is serving out a 10-year term right now and order to

install Patel to the role.

But he was wavering, I'm told between Patel as well as Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey. However, I was also told that Bailey, who

interviewed with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago in person for the role, didn't impress Trump, because essentially, Donald Trump really wants someone who

will be a legal pit bull farmer, who will carry out his agenda and not hold him back.

He believes that Patel is the person who will do that, and according to a lot of the things that Patel has said, and those who know him, they argue

that he is the person that they believe could disrupt the FBI in such a sweeping way, Becky.

ANDERSON: Alayna, good to have you. Alayna is in West Palm Beach in Florida. All right, let's get you up to speed on some of the other stories

that are on our radar right now, folks. And at least 130 people have been killed in sectarian violence in northwest Pakistan. Violence there flared

10 days ago when gunmen ambushed a convoy killing dozens of Shiite Muslims.

Nobody claimed responsibility for the assault, which triggered days of attacks by rival groups. Well, last week, government officials brokered a

cease fire between Shiite and Sunni Muslims, but it didn't hold. Well, authorities in Guinea say 56 people were killed and many others injured in

a crowd crush at a football match.

One video, shows fans climbing a wall to try and get out of what was a packed stadium. A local news report said fighting had started when fans

grew angry over refereeing decisions and clashed with security officers. CNN has not been able to verify that. Well, protesters and police clashed

in Georgia's capital Tbilisi in the early hours of Monday morning.

Days of protests have been sparked by the government's decision there to suspend talks on joining European Union. Tensions have been brewing for

months over the country's future. Critics accuse the ruling party of pursuing anti-Western and pro-Russian policies. CNN's Lynda Kinkade has

more on the unrest.

[09:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Facing down a row of riot police, a protester in Georgia defiantly waves a European Union flag.

Powerful symbol of what's galvanized thousands of protesters in Tbilisi to rally nightly since Thursday, when the government said it was suspending

talks to join the EU for four years.

Night after night, demonstrators have set off fireworks near parliament, clashing with police who've responded with tear gas and water cannons.

Protesters say the future of the country is at stake. Polls show more than 80 percent of Georgians support joining the EU, a long-time goal of the

country that's enshrined in its constitution.

MARIAM TSKITISHVILI, PROTESTER: It's just the fact that my country deserves to be free from the Russian regime that has haunted us for many centuries,

and I believe that we need to get into Europe. It's truly what we've wanted for many, many centuries.

KINKADE (voice-over): But that path has become less clear lately. Critics say the country's ruling Georgian dream party has become increasingly

authoritarian, and in recent years, has moved away from the West, deepening ties with Russia, which the party denies.

In parliamentary elections in October, which were widely seen as a referendum on whether to align with Russia or the West, the Georgian dream

party claimed victory in a vote the opposition says was rigged. The European Parliament quote it neither free nor fair.

Opposition MPs are boycotting the new parliament. The country's outgoing president, who supports joining the EU says she won't step down until new

elections are held.

SALOME ZOURABICHVILI, GEORGIAN PRESIDENT: There is no legitimate Parliament, and therefore an illegitimate Parliament cannot elect a new

president. Thus, no inauguration can take place, and my mandate continues until a legitimately elected parliament is formed.

KINKADE (voice-over): Georgia's Prime Minister says there will be no new elections. He accuses the opposition of plotting a revolution, and says

Georgia is committed to EU membership, despite the delay.

IRAKLI KOBAKHIDZE, GEORGIAN PRIME MINISTER: The response is very clear, so we have not suspended anything related to the European integration. It's

just a lie.

KINKADE (voice-over): But the protests are not only continuing, but spreading to more cities. So too concerns over the treatment of the

protesters. The U.S. and EU have condemned the use of excessive force against them. On Saturday, the U.S. suspended its strategic partnership

with Georgia, something the Georgian Prime Minister says he will revisit with the new administration in January. Lynda Kinkade, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, still to come, it is an issue that hits especially close to home here in Saudi Arabia. Policymakers, NGOs and other leaders from around

the world have gathered in Riyadh, here in the Gulf kingdom to discuss how to combat the devastation caused by land degradation. A look at some of the

potential solutions are just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]

ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson, live in Riyadh, where today the United Nations kicks off a nearly two weeks long conference. The focus

restoring the world's degraded land and holding back its deserts. Now it is a key issue, not least in the host country, Saudi Arabia, which of course,

is home to one of the largest deserts on the planet, the Rub' al Khali.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL-JUBEIR: We are seeing major degradation of land, almost 100 million hectares a year. That's the equivalent the size of Egypt is being degraded

every year. When you have land degradation, you have the reduced ability to produce food, which means you have more migration as people move towards

areas where they can grow food.

Which means conflict, which means extremism, terrorism, violence, migration, which in turn, have an impact on the politics of other

countries, domestic politics. So, it impacts every person on the globe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: The U.N. says 1.2 billion people across the globe are now impacted, and degradation rates are steadily increasing. Have a look at

this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON (voice-over): Desertification, a deadly, silent scourge affecting regions on every continent left unchecked. It risks undermining Earth's

capacity to sustain humanity. That's the view of the U.N. which says globally, about 40 percent of once fertile land around the world is already

degraded the result of climate change, drought and poor land management.

A further 100 million hectares is lost every year. That's equivalent to two times the size of Greenland. Conflict, forced migration, social cohesion

and the simple ability to feed the world's growing population are what's at stake if the problem is not addressed. Saudi Arabia post of COP 16 has made

restoring the world's degraded land and holding back its deserts a focus of its vision 2030 economic plan.

The kingdom has committed to grow 10 billion trees in the nation and another 40 billion across the region through the Middle East green

initiative, that's the equivalent of restoring 200 million hectares of land. And it has urged the private sector to play a greater role. The

message from the hosts is that land restoration is not only an environmental necessity. It makes business sense too.

The U.N. says, for every $1 invested, up to $30 is generated in economic activity. And for the first time, the Riyadh conference features a green

zone, a space for business, finance institutions, NGOs, scientists and impacted communities to come together to forge new alliances to tackle the

problem.

U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres has said, quote, we depend on land for our survival, yet we treat it like dirt. The agreements made here at

this land COP will go a long way to show if that statement remains true today.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, I'm joined now by Achim Steiner, head of the United Nations Development Program. His agency describes this not as a global gathering,

but as a lifeline, particularly for this part of the world, the Arab region, one of the most arid and fastest warming on the globe.

The stakes here, sir, could not be higher. So, let me start with this very simple question, Mother Nature must be asking herself, how did we get into

this mess? Can you explain?

ACHIM STEINER, ADMINISTRATOR OF UNITED NATIONS DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME: Well, Becky, perhaps, for many people, it's not even a known fact that our soils

on which so much depends in terms of life, whether flora fauna, but ourselves in terms of food security, is actually an extraordinary hive of

life.

[09:35:00]

If you take a hand of soil, you may not realize that you are literally holding millions, if not billions, of organisms in your hand, bacteria,

fungi. It is what makes life work on our planet. And yet, as you say, we have destroyed a great deal of that life already. It takes hundreds of

years, sometimes thousands of years to get to that quality of soil, and we can degrade it literally within 10 years.

ANDERSON: So how have we done that?

STEINER: Well, many different ways, certainly the frontier with which humans have, for example, changed ecosystems, deforestation, but then also

modern agriculture, highly chemically dependent. It's an extractive industry, if you're not careful. That's why so much of the discussion today

is about sustainable agriculture.

And then climate change is adding the extremes in terms of floods and droughts. And particularly here in Riyadh now, in this U.N. desertification

convention, we are focusing on the impact of drought, and that is literally affecting hundreds of millions of people.

ANDERSON: This is a triple COP year. We generally talk about the big COPs, which are all around climate change. We also hear a lot about biodiversity

loss, another COP, a mini-COP, if you will. This is what's known as the land COP. But they are all interrelated. Am I right?

STEINER: Not only are they all interrelated, they're also related to us as human beings. You know, I had the United Nations Development Programme, we

often look at what is happening through the lens of biodiversity, climate change or land degradation, in terms of what happens to human beings, and

the response also has to be joined.

We are talking about how to restore land where we can sequester more carbon, where biodiversity begins to create more resilience. So, these are

all technical terms, but they're essentially about how to make the environment work in a way that human beings can survive and thrive.

ANDERSON: Remind us of the cost of doing nothing.

STEINER: The cost of doing nothing is to lose, for example, as we are right now, and many people don't realize we are growing our global population,

but we're actually diminishing the amount of soil in which we can grow food. This is the balance sheet of over 2, 300 years of modern agriculture.

Billions of tons of sand and dust are literally put into the air every year because of droughts, desertification, land degradation, we lose that soil

to grow food on it, and the cost, in monetary terms, goes into the billions. I mean, just to restore a billion hectares of land will cost

trillions of dollars, and this is what the real cost of not practicing sustainable agriculture could be.

ANDERSON: And, if you haven't folks seen the damage that can be done by, for example, a dust storm in this region, a newly planted field by a young

farmer can be completely desecrated by a dust storm.

STEINER: In half an hour.

ANDERSON: the result of desertification and climate change. We've talked about the cost of restoring land and rolling back the damage here. It's a

billion dollars a day, or over $2 trillion by 2030 that is a huge amount of money, which faces huge competition for that cash. Talk to me about what

that cash would pay for.

STEINER: Well, first of all, it would perhaps remove some of the perverse subsidies, as we call them, which force farmers to produce in a way that

actually degrades the very foundation of their farming operation in the soils. It would pay for restoring landscapes, whether it is wetlands that

need to be restored in order to have an ecology function, or whether it is to do reafforestation, which in any case, we need to deal with carbon

emissions and to sequester them.

And you say, yes, these are large sums of money, but imagine we are a population of now, you know, 7.5, 8 billion people that need to eat every

day. In the larger scheme of things, in a world with $450 trillion of wealth right now, these investments that essentially guarantee us food

security, ecological stability.

And let's also remember, when people can't eat anymore, they have to go somewhere else. And this is what is also driving not only migration, but

conflicts between communities. This is about as much in terms of ecological security and stability as it is about social and economic stability.

ANDERSON: We take ourselves back to 2011 and the Arab spring, which ultimately started on an issue of food insecurity. Food insecurity leading

to conflict, leading to forced migration, effects everywhere around the world, not just the region where it may have started.

It's good to have you. I wanted to have you here because I know the UNDP is full of solutions as well, working locally with communities to try and

effect some change. I don't want folks for this to sound sort of doom laden, because things can be done. What is important is to set out what the

problem is? And then talk about how we can provide some solutions. Achim, it's always good to have you.

[09:40:00]

STEINER: Thank you, Becky.

ANDERSON: Thank you very much indeed, Achim Steiner with the United Nations Development Programme. Liverpool is firmly on top of the premier league

table after their match against Manchester City. But this Man City's Pep Guardiola, making sure fans in Liverpool, remember all of the championships

that he has delivered bit of a wind up there he was, though disappointed on the night. More is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: All right, well, we've been talking Liverpool. Liverpool fans on Sunday, taunting Pep Guardiola, Manchester City's Manager with chance of

your getting sacked in the morning. Well, the jeers ran out at Anfield as city fell to their fourth straight defeat in the premier league, this time

two leaders, Liverpool. Amanda Davies with me with the action, Amanda.

AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT: Thanks very much indeed, Becky. Yeah, Pep Guardiola has not been sacked despite those chance. I mean, he did just

sign a new two-year contract last week. Didn't he to stay at Manchester City? But certainly, was not the result he and the city fans were hoping

for against Liverpool. But we've got plenty more on that coming up in just a couple of minutes on "World Sport". Stay with us.

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