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Trump And Putin To Speak By Phone Tuesday; White House Defends Deportations In Face Of Judges Order; Trump Deports Hundreds To Prison In El Salvador. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired March 17, 2025 - 10:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:00:28]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi. This is CONNECT THE WORLD WITH BECKY ANDERSON.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to the second hour of the show from our Middle East programming headquarters here in Abu Dhabi. With
the time is just after 6:00 p.m. in the evening.
Coming up, Russia confirms Vladimir Putin -- We start that again. Russia confirms that Vladimir Putin will hold a phone call with U.S. president on
Tuesday about Ukraine.
This is European leaders scramble to prepare for what's to come, possibly including some difficult concessions on land.
Well, the U.S. deports hundreds of alleged Venezuelan gang members to El Salvador, despite a court order -- ordering the administration to stop.
And the Israeli prime minister says he plans to oust the head of the internal security service there, Shin Bet.
Benjamin Netanyahu says it bears the blame for lapses that led to the October 7th attacks. Opponents derived that as simply a political move.
Well, how to divvy up land in Ukraine when the fighting stops? That appears to be the most pressing issue, the U.S. and Russian presidents will discuss
when they talk by phone on Tuesday.
Kremlin confirming a few hours ago that the call between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump will happen. Mr. Trump first announcing it on Sunday night
aboard Air Force One. And giving a preview of what he expects to talk about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're talking about power plants. That's a big question. But I think we have a lot of it already
discussed very much by both sides.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You'll ask him --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Ukraine and Russia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You'll ask him --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: We're already talking about that. Dividing up certain assets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, dividing up those certain assets could prove to be the most difficult hurdle to getting both sides to agree to what is this U.S.
ceasefire plan. President Putin has demanded that Ukraine concede territory.
Fred Pleitgen, following developments for us from Moscow today. Fred, how realistic is it to expect progress out of that phone call scheduled for
Tuesday?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's very difficult to say. And I think one of the big things that they
need to talk about, one of the big questions, sort of pertaining to how all this unfolds, is, when exactly could there possibly be a ceasefire if all
of these issues are still at hand?
And I think this goes back to the root problem, that so far, there is at hand in all of this, and that the Ukrainians have essentially signed on to
a 30-day cease fire without conditions, which is also what the Trump administration wants, by the way.
They said that they want a cease fire in place before the major issues are dealt with, whereas, the Russians are saying they want to deal with the
major issues before there can actually be a cease fire, because the Russians say that they immediately want to work towards some sort of larger
peace agreement that could hold indefinitely and could hold in the future as well.
So, certainly, as far as that is concerned, it's very difficult to see how progress is going to be made. Nevertheless, of course, we heard the U.S.
president there, saying, he believes that significant progress has already been made, and we know that he and his team, including his negotiator Steve
Witkoff, have been working over the weekend to try and sort of find inroads to see how to move all this forward.
But the big issues, Becky that the Russians, of course, still have is about land, is about to them, wanting to keep all of the areas that they've so
far taken from the Ukrainians, possibly even more than that.
If we look at places like the Zaporizhzhia Oblast, the Kherson area, and also Donetsk as well, where they control large parts of those
administrative areas, but not all of them. The question is, what happens next? How much land are the Russians going to be able to keep? And are the
Ukrainians going to be OK with that as well?
And, of course, what was really interesting was the president speaking about power plants also, of course, the one that seems to be at hand is the
Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which, of course, is massive, with six nuclear reactors in it so far under -- right now, under control of the
Russians. But we do, of course, know that, for instance, the International Atomic Energy Agency goes via Ukrainian territory to get its observers into
that power plant.
What will happen to that in the future? Of course, that also big issue as well. Then, we have the other issue that the Russians have brought onto the
tables, that they certainly don't want to see Ukraine ever become a member of NATO. The Ukrainians, of course, would like nothing more than that.
Becky.
ANDERSON: Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow.
[10:05:00]
Fred, thank you.
I want to bring in CNN politics senior reporter, friend of this show, Stephen Collinson. It's good to have you back this hour talking about
Russia and Ukraine.
Stephen, Donald Trump, saying he thinks there's a good chance of a ceasefire coming out of this call. We know that Vladimir Putin has been and
may be in this for the long game. We also know that Donald Trump is looking for a short-term win.
In fact, he promised that this war would be over within the first 24 hours of his tenure. What do you make of what we are hearing out of both sides,
the messaging at this point?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, I think that's a good point. The way that the Americans and the Russians are operating off a
different timeline. I mean, President Putin's timeline probably stretches far beyond the point when Donald Trump will no longer be in the White
House.
The administration is very upbeat on its discussions with the Russians. On the one hand, I think that's -- that makes sense, because if you're
involved in a diplomatic negotiation, you have to give the impression of progress to try and create momentum, even if there isn't really much
progress.
The caveat, of course, is that we don't know what's been going on behind the scenes in the granularity of these discussions with the Russians and
with the Ukrainians. But at the same time, President Putin has effectively rejected Trump's call for an immediate ceasefire. That happened last week
with all of these different conditions that the Russians applied.
And although, the U.S. side says they agree on principle, it's clear, as you say, that the Russians are going to try and stretch these negotiations
out, because they are doing better on the battlefield right now than the Ukrainians.
And I think there's a slight warning sign. When the president is already talking about dividing up assets. These seem to be the questions that would
be left for after a ceasefire, and when a peace is being negotiated. A permanent peace. It seems a little bit getting the car before the horse, if
they are talking about them now.
Let's not forget these assets that Trump is talking about. They're Ukrainian assets that were seized by Russia in an invasion. So, I think
there will be concern in Europe that, once again, Putin -- Trump is leading closer to the position of Putin than Ukrainians.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, Stephen. We'll have you back once we get some sense of what has come out of this call scheduled, as we say now, for
Tuesday.
And you make a very good point. Nobody's going to go into a negotiation without having a sense of sort of optimism, and certainly that's what we
are hearing from the Trump administration.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of this -- you -- and you're absolutely right to point out that we really do not know what has been
going on behind the scenes, and what the granular detail of those discussions have been.
We have heard, though, from a number of Trump administration individuals, not least the Secretary of State Rubio, in the talks that he's had with the
Russians, of course, mediated in Saudi.
So, we'll see. It's good to have you, sir. Thank you.
Well, in the latest immigration crackdown, the Trump administration used legal powers granted in 18th century law to deport hundreds of alleged gang
members to El Salvador.
That is despite an order from a federal court for the government to stop using what is the Alien Enemies Act.
President Trump was asked about it on Sunday. This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't know. You have to speak to the lawyers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you planning to do more deportation like this one?
TRUMP: I can tell you this. These were bad people. Now he's got a bad group of, as I say, ombres.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the White House saying the administration did not violate the judges' order because -- and that the deportees had already left the
United States by the time that the order was made.
I want to break this down. CNN's senior legal analyst, Elie Honig Joining us now live. It's good to have you, because it's important that we sort of
drill down on this. The judges I understand, it verbally ordering any planes in the air carrying migrants to turn back to the United States.
Elie, we have the White House press secretary, saying the following: "A single judge in a single city cannot direct the movements of an aircraft
carrier full of foreign alien terrorists who were physically expelled from U.S. soil."
So, where does -- where does this leave the Trump administration? Can it bypass these orders?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so the biggest question here, Becky is exactly that, did the Trump administration knowingly defy a
specific order from a judge? So, let's break this down, because the details and the timing are really important here.
[10:10:02]
Now, there was a hearing held in Court on Saturday. And at around 6:49 p.m. on Saturday, the judge, a judge named James Boasberg, a federal judge in
Washington, D.C., said, essentially, this is all getting put on hold. Do not deport anybody and turn around any flights that are in the air.
Then, about a half hour after that, a written document to the same effect hit the docket sheet, a written order was issued. But really what matters
is when the judge says it in Court. Take it from me. I've been in court plenty of times.
And now, the key question is, where were those planes at those key moments? If they were still grounded in the United States, then yes, the Trump
administration defied an order from the judge.
If they were already airborne, then you get into a little bit of a gray area about whether they would still be subject to U.S. jurisdiction. It
would matter what airspace they were in. If, on the far other hand, they had already landed in a foreign country, then, it would have been too late
to really tell them to turn around.
So, we need to see how these exact details play out. I expect the judge wouldn't surprise me if it's in a few hours today demands a sort of minute-
by-minute breakdown of who knew what, when, and where were those planes when.
ANDERSON: So, this Alien Enemies Act has only been invoked three times before, all during war times, war of 1812, and World War I and II, as I
understand it.
Now, can you explain how or why it is the Trump administration believe they can deport people under this act?
HONIG: Yes. So, separate and apart from the question of whether they defied a court order, there is the substantive question of, does this law apply
properly to what the Trump administration was trying to do.
Now, that law, the Alien Enemies Act, says that the president can deport non-citizens. So, that would include people who are here illegally, people
here on visas, people who are green card holders, legal permanent residents.
But the president can deport non-citizens in either of two scenarios. One, if there is a declared war with the foreign country. Obviously, that's not
the case. We don't have any declared wars right now. Number two, and this is the one the Trump administration is relying on, is if there is an
invasion or enemy incursion by a foreign government.
Now, the Trump administration has two leaps to make there. First, they argue that the presence of this gang, Tren de Aragua in the United States
is the same as an invasion or incursion, because they're out there committing crimes.
The second leap I think, they have to convince a judge of, is that the actions of this gang are the same as the actions of the Venezuelan
Government. The Trump administration argues they are aligned, and they're sort of embedded in the corrupt Venezuelan government.
I think both of those claims are sort of uphill climbs in Court. And eventually, and this is why the judge put this temporarily on hold. This
judge initially, at least, is not buying those arguments. But the law is very broad. It gives the president very broad powers. And even within that
though, I think the Trump administration is pushing the outer boundaries of a reasonable interpretation here.
ANDERSON: Right. Let's be quite clear about this. The pace of Trump's deportations have been fairly similar to Biden's administration. The number
of removal flights under Trump tracks closely with the former presidents in 2024. President Trump has just been more vocal about this immigration
crackdown. He was very vocal about it in promising it during his campaign. He says he was elected on this, including an immigration ASMR video posted
that has sparked a backlash.
Has Donald Trump spotlighting these cases helped or hindered the situation or his case?
HONIG: Well, I imagine, it's popular politically that people see him rounding up gang members, allegedly violent gang members, and sending them
out of the country. I mean, it certainly was one of the lead issues that Donald Trump campaigned and was elected on.
It's really important, though, to understand a couple of things here. First of all, our laws do some of them are centuries old, do give the president,
whether it's Joe Biden or Donald Trump, or anyone else, very broad authority within the immigration spectrum.
The other thing to keep in mind is, these are not criminal cases, and we, in the United States are very used to. In a criminal case, things are done
above board. They're done methodically, there are public hearings, there are indictments that we can all read. There are trials that are guaranteed
to be public. We get to see every phase of it as it plays out.
But in the immigration context, that is not the case. A lot more can happen behind the scenes, undercover, outside of the public view. So, we're
talking about two very different scenarios here.
ANDERSON: Donald Trump has been pushing the courts in the states on many issues, not only on immigration.
[10:14:59]
So, question to you with all of your experience, as you see what is going on in these first, what more than 60 odd days now?
How do the courts keep the executive and Donald Trump in check?
HONIG: Yes, this is why it's so important, first of all, that Court orders be obeyed, and that we don't get into the realm of where the Executive
Branch, the president, is defying court orders. Because if that happens, then, we are lost.
But what we've seen, you're right, Becky, time and again throughout the first two months of this administration is pushing the outer boundaries of
law. We just talked about one example with immigration enforcement. There is another example with birthright citizenship, which goes back to 1868
says that any person born or naturalized in the United States is automatically a citizen. Trump is challenging that.
We've seen a lot of these in what Elon Musk and DOGE is doing, in the way they're firing federal employees, in the way they're trying to withhold
money. And we're seeing these cases play out on a one-by-one basis in the courts, and sometimes, by the way, the Trump administration wins.
I think more often than not, they have lost. But there have been times when courts, including democratic appointed judges, have looked at the Trump
administration's actions and said, That's OK.
But there have been more times when judges, and I would include both Democratic and Republican appointed judges, have said, no, that crosses the
line that's illegal. Now, I think it's important that when we hear this phrase, constitutional crisis, in my view, if you're a presidential
administration, and you're taking aggressive readings on the law or arguing for maybe unpopular interpretations of the law, that's all within the realm
of fair play.
You go into Court, maybe you win, maybe you lose. But to me, where we get into real trouble is if there is open willing defiance of a Court order.
People use this phrase, constitutional crisis. I hesitate to use that phrase, but if we get into open defiance, then we are there.
ANDERSON: Yes. Now, that's a really interesting point. Elie, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
(CROSSTALK)
HONIG: Thanks, Becky. All right.
ANDERSON: Elie Honig, in the House for you, folks.
Well, people from Venezuela have been a target since the start of the Trump presidency. CNN sat down with a Venezuelan migrant, who says he was nearly
driven to suicide while he was in detention at Guantanamo Bay.
Gustavo Valdes with this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A family reunion, eight years in the making.
And one Jose Daniel Simancas Rodriguez, thought would never happen.
JOSE DANIEL SIMANCAS, VENEZUELAN DEPORTEE (through translator): I had completely given up. I thought I would never see my mother or children
again.
VALDES (voice over): Simancas is one of the millions of Venezuelans who left their country looking for a better future. After six years in Ecuador,
the 30-year-old decided to go to the United States in 2022, embarking on a long and dangerous journey.
SIMANCAS (through translator): I spent six days without food. I saw dead people along the way.
VALDES (voice-over): He surrendered to immigration authorities after entering the U.S. illegally in 2024. He requested asylum. It was then, that
these tattoos got him in trouble.
SIMANCAS (through translator): They said the stars meant I was a member of Tren de Aragua. I told them, I didn't know that.
VALDES (voice-over): Tren de Aragua is a criminal organization of Venezuelan origin that gained attention in the U.S. after a series of high-
profile events. The Trump administration designated it an international terrorist organization.
Simancas was also accused of reentering the United States illegally, even though he says he never crossed before. After nine months in detention, he
was told they were going to Miami. He says it didn't take him long to figure out they were in Guantanamo Bay once they landed and were rushed to
the detention facility.
SIMANCAS (through translator): You feel fear from the moment you step on the bus because it's as if they blindfold you. They might as well have
placed a bag over our head because all the windows in the bus were blacked out, and you don't know where you're going.
They take you to a room and I only got a pillow and a bed sheet, no mattress. I spent at least 10 days with no mattress.
VALDES (voice-over): He was not allowed to talk to other detainees, but he says they found a way to communicate.
SIMANCAS (through translator): We started to scream. We laid on the floor and screamed through the gap between the door and the floor because it was
the only way to be heard.
We couldn't see each other. We could only shout.
VALDES (voice-over): Harsh conditions, he says, made him contemplate taking his own life.
SIMANCAS (through translator): That is the torture, the confinement. You are not alive. You are there and not alive, where you don't know if it's
day or night. You don't really know the time.
[10:20:00]
VALDES (voice-over): U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement authorities declined to comment on these allegations, citing pending litigation.
Jose Daniel Simancas Rodriguez was among the more than 170 Venezuelans deported to their country in February 20. The emotional return to his five
children is the start of a healing process, he says, hasn't been easy, because he says that he and the other deportees suffer from insomnia and
fear of leaving their homes.
SIMANCAS (through translator): If their intention was to keep us from returning to the U.S., they have succeeded. If they wanted to traumatize
us, they have succeeded.
VALDES (voice-over): Now, he warns others seeking the American Dream that it's a dream that doesn't exist.
Gustavo Valdes, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Well, coming up, the Israeli prime minister, announces steps against the head of his country's Secret Service, raising questions about
his motive. More on that is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: An assistant professor at Brown University Medical School in the States has been deported to Lebanon despite a judge's order that she not be
removed. Now, a court hearing about Dr. Rasha Alawieh's case, scheduled for today in Boston has been canceled, CNN has learned.
Now, she was in the U.S. with a valid H-1B visa Brown University has now advised international students and faculty to avoid travel.
Let's get you, CNN's Gloria Pazmino, for the latest on what is going on in the states on this deportation drive, if you will. A lot of moving parts on
this.
So, let's start with Brown University. I want our viewers to just be reminded that H-1B visas are for specialty occupations like medical
practitioners, they are not easy to get. Under what charges did they first detain this doctor and, secondly, deport her?
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NEWSOURCE NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Becky, not only are they extremely hard to obtain, but those visas often require an
organization here in the United States to sponsor the visa recipient in order for the visa to be approved, and that was exactly the case of Dr.
Rasha Alawieh.
Now, we have just learned in the last hour that this Court hearing that we were expecting to happen this morning, where we were hoping to learn more
details about what happened here, has just been postponed.
The court ordering a delay here in order to give both parties more time to prepare for the hearing. We're also learning from the judge, who just wrote
into the docket in the last hour or so that Customs and Border Patrol agents have notified the Court that the reason they did not obey his order
to not deport her is because they did not receive the order in time.
[10:25:10]
By the time they received it, she had already been put on a plane. Now, to your question about charges or why she was deported in the first place, it
all remains extremely unclear at this point. We know that she is a doctor at Brown University. We know that she was here on a valid visa. We know
that she had traveled to Lebanon to visit her relatives. She had returned back through Boston Logan International Airport, and it was at the airport
where she was detained and held for about 36 hours until she was eventually deported back to Lebanon.
Now, what the issue was, or whether there was an issue with her visa, remains unclear. Federal officials have not yet provided details about
exactly what was behind their decision. But all of this is happening as the Trump administration appears to be targeting international students across
different universities. Some, have been targeted for their participation in protests last year against the Israel-Hamas war, while others, like in the
case of Dr. Alawieh, just appeared to be targeted for unclear reasons.
So, we expect to hear an update from the White House press secretary later today, perhaps, she will answer some questions about this.
But for now, a lot of just lack of clarity here about what happened to this woman.
ANDERSON: All right. It's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.
More on that as we get it, of course. Well, turning to this region now, where an Israeli team has been in Egypt to discuss the hostages in Gaza,
according to the Israeli Prime Minister's Office, but there has been no sign of progress, at least not yet.
The P.M. under intense pressure to bring those remaining hostages' home. It's backing a new proposal from the United States that calls for a month-
long extension of -- be the first phase of that cease fire negotiated way back in January, of course. The talks, happening against the backdrop of
the deadliest day in Gaza, since the ceasefire took effect in January.
On Saturday, nine people were killed in an Israeli air strike on Northern Gaza. A British charity says nearly all of the victims were aid workers.
Israel says the strike killed six terrorists, including one who was involved in the October 7th attack. Well, multiple new Israeli strikes in
Gaza have been reported today. Now, the blockade on aid still in effect.
All of this happening against the backdrop of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu moves to fire the chief of Shin Bet, Ronen Bar, this week. Bar
heads up the security service, which is similar, for example, to the FBI, and monitors domestic threats.
Well, the agency recently criticized Mr. Netanyahu and his government in connection with the October 7 attacks. Bar's removal could be subject to
appeals by the country's Supreme Court.
Well, still to come, a CNN investigation sheds light on the scale and brutality of a massacre targeting a minority community in a Syrian coastal
town. More on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:30:56]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD with me Becky Anderson. Your headlines. And U.S. President Donald Trump says he'll
discuss divvying up land and other assets in a post-war Ukraine when he talks to the Russian president on Tuesday. The Kremlin confirming a few
hours ago that the call will take place.
Sovereignty over land is one of the most difficult issues left to work out, get Russia and Ukraine to agree to what is this U.S. ceasefire proposal.
Well, the Vatican sharing a photo of Pope Francis for the first time since he was hospitalized more than a month ago. On Sunday, the 88-year-old
pontiff was seen with other priests presiding over mass at a chapel inside the Rome hospital where he is being treated for a lung infection.
Police in North Macedonia have arrested about 20 people in an investigation into a deadly fire at a nightclub. Among them is the owner of the club,
which the government says was operating with an illegal license. At least 59 people were killed in Sunday's tragedy. Most of them in their teens and
20s.
Well, this weekend marked 14 years since the start of Syria's civil war. An uprising challenging the brutal dictatorship of Bashar al-Assad finally, of
course, ousted in December of 2024. Military helicopters dropped flowers and flyers from the air, as there were celebrations in several cities. Well
today, the European Union is looking to Syria's future. It is hosting its annual talks in support of Syria Assad's government. Did not attend
previous conferences, but today, Syria's interim government will be there to take part.
Well inside Syria, hundreds of protesters, many from Kurdish and Assyrian communities, protested the signing of a temporary constitution. Critics
describing that as a one-sided document, arguing that it fails to protect the rights of minorities. Well, last week, Syria's interim president Ahmed
al-Sharaa signed the Constitution, it provides for Islamist rule to remain in place throughout a five-year transitional phase.
Where elsewhere in the country, a recent wave of attacks has marked the worst outbreak of violence since the ouster of Bashar al-Assad. A CNN
investigation now zeroes in on the events at Sanawbar or Pine Village, a town of several thousand members of Syria's minority Alawite community. A
warning some of the video that you are about to see is graphic.
Tamara Qiblawi has more on these attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMARA QIBLAWI, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIONS WRITER (voice-over): It's a sunny day in the Syrian coastal village named after its pine groves, a fighter
sings, and it seems to be a cheerful tune. But this is a song that celebrates death. Behind him, dead people are strewn along the sides of the
street. Hundreds of people were killed in scenes like this in coastal Syria this month. Loyalists of the recently deposed dictator Bashar al-Assad had
ambushed the country's new security forces in what appeared to be a coordinated attack.
This triggered the killing spree against the Alawites, Assad's minority sect. Syria's new Sunni Islamist government blamed the mass killings on
Rogue elements calling the incidents violations. According to rights groups, the carnage played out across 25 Alawite areas and in the village
of Sanowbar or the Pine Village, CNN found evidence of a massacre. Here factions loyal to Syria's new government went house to house, dragging men
out to be executed.
Homes were torched. Fighters screened sectarian slurs the. Survivors spoke to us about their still fresh memories.
[10:35:05]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (text): They entered the house and demanded that all the men step outside. My father and my two brothers. They made them stand
outside and they execute them. They shot my father in the head. They shot my brother in the heart. And my second brother, hit his right side.
QIBLAWI (voice-over): Our visual investigation reveals the scale of the horror. We counted over 80 bodies in verified videos strewn along the main
street, lying in shallow graves wrapped in shrouds. Satellite images showed mounds of dirt and soil disturbances consistent with mass graves in the
area. Locals say they counted over 200 bodies and armed men published evidence of the atrocities.
Like this video filmed at the entrance of the pine village. Ethnic cleansing, ethnic cleansing, he cheers. We see him in the ransacked home of
the Khalil family, the corpse of an elderly relative splayed out on the sofa, father and son dead at the fighter's feet. We trace the video back to
this Facebook page. In this photograph, the apparent owner of the profile is wearing what appears to be the insignia of HTS.
That's the newly dissolved Islamist militant group led until recently by Syria's interim president Ahmed al-Sharaa. Whether individuals involved in
the massacre have been held to account is unclear. The government has set up a committee to investigate the killings, but across coastal Syria,
people say they can't feel safe until justice is served.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (text): I swear we never fired a bullet. Our men have died. They killed them all.
QIBLAWI (voice-over): Tamara Qiblawi, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, earlier, I spoke with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi. He is currently in Brussels for the ninth
ministerial conference on Syria, where he is pushing for sanctions relief, for further aid and support for those inside Syria and refugees. Of course,
around the world. Ahead of the conference, the High Commissioner posted a story warning "If we neglect immediate humanitarian needs in Syria, social
and political divisions will not heal."
Well, I asked Filippo Grandi about this and the future of Syria as the nation transitions amid a spate of sectarian violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FILIPPO GRANDI, U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES: How this -- what happened, terrible, horrible as it may be. Somehow, you know, in a
transition, unfortunately, in transitions like this one, these things happen, and this is why it's so important, of course, to continue to
encourage the interim government to do the right thing, to be inclusive, to respect all Syrians, to make their government a government of all Syrians,
basically.
But it goes in parallel with international support. Syria has nothing. Infrastructure is in pieces. Services are not functioning. There's no jobs.
There are very basic humanitarian needs. So, whilst we encourage the government and hopefully help the government rebuild the country, we need
to help the people carry on. Including, by the way, those that choose to return. This is what my organization is mostly involved with.
ANDERSON: How imperative is it to unwind sanctions on Syria at this point? You talk about the need to heal the country. The economy is on its knees,
and to get it back in some kind of functioning state and to start the process of reconstruction. Many people believe these sanctions need to be
lifted. What's your sense?
GRANDI: I agree with that. Sanctions were established against the previous government, the previous regime. Now, I think what states want to see that
there is progress on the political, human rights front. This is very legitimate. But I think what the European Union, for example, has done, a
progressive lifting of sanctions, a roadmap, in a way, towards listing of sanctions is good, because with sanctions, there will be no investment.
You know, in the end, I'm quite persuaded that Syria, if it goes on the right path will be rebuilt largely by the Syrian people. They are -- they
have a lot of entrepreneurship. They know how to do it. But with sanctions, this is simply not going to happen. No investments will occur in the
country.
[10:40:01]
That's why it's so important to continue this progressing, lifting of the - - of the constraints. So that besides aid, also the economy can restart and the country can go on a path of growth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, whether Syria, Gaza, Afghanistan or Sudan, conversations about aid cannot be had without talking about the crisis facing those doing
the humanitarian work. The Trump administration's decisions to pause or cut foreign aid have put much of this critical work in flux with devastating
consequences. Here's more of my conversation with Filippo Grandi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRANDI: Well, look to your general point, yes, we are in a very difficult situation, all of us in the
aid sector, because, of course, the U.S., well, the U.S. is conducting a review of its foreign assistance. It's not yet cuts, but everything is
frozen. We're not receiving contributions, and we keep being told that whatever will emerge from this review will be a significantly reduce U.S.
foreign aid.
And, you know, us was the leading country in foreign aid before, and at the same time, other countries that we are encouraging to step in, as, by the
way we've done for many years, other countries are also looking at reductions as to the European discourse that reductions are necessary to
foot the defense bill, because that also is increasing. I don't agree with that. As a European, I don't agree with that because I think that actually
aid contributes to security and stability as well.
So, if you increase defense, but you take away support to people in crisis, and remember, Europe is surrounded by a belt of crisis. That is very
dangerous for Europe security as well. And so, as whether it is Syria or the Sudan crisis or the Sahel or Ukraine, it is very important that Europe
steps up its foreign assistance, also in terms of stability and security, not only of those places but of Europe as well.
ANDERSON: Elon Musk has said that U.S. aid cuts would not result in lives lost. But in your latest ex post, you say and I quote you here, media are
largely silent on this topic. Nobody mentions it in political debates, millions of lives worldwide are being affected by brutal cuts in
international aid. Can you just enlarge on what you said?
GRANDI: Actually, Becky, that is for me, one of the most worrying aspects of this difficult situation we're in, because there is a lot of focus on
defense and security. There's a lot of focus on Ukraine, there's a lot of focus on trade and tariffs, and all of this is important and crucial.
Nobody is focusing very much or enough on the fact that international aid is going perhaps in its biggest crisis that we've seen in decades.
And the most immediate effect of that, for sure, will be on people, on human lives.
I was in Bangladesh a few days ago, and the World Food Program is cutting rations. The last time this happened, for different reasons. We saw
malnutrition go up within a month, children's malnutrition, child malnutrition. In Sudan, the war gives no sign of ending, as you know very
well.
Every day, thousands of people, for example are arriving in Chad or South Sudan to very fragile countries. We will have simply no resources to give
them food, to allow them access to water and sanitation and to build or give them minimum shelter. I'm just talking about the most basic items. If
there is no serious consideration of reversing this decline in aid. And I can give you many, many other examples. This is straightforward. It's going
to happen if this doesn't change.
ANDERSON: So, when Elon Musk says that aid cuts would not result in lost lives, you say, what?
[10:45:00]
GRANDI: I respectfully disagree with that because unfortunately, in many places, too many people still depend on aid. Now you can argue several
things.
You can argue, can we be more efficient in distributing aid? For sure. And that's what we always strive to be more efficient. And now with much less
resources, we will strive even more to avoid any duplication, to work together more, to be more agile, to put more resources where they should be
at the very end. This is something we've always done, but we try to do it even more now.
You can even argue that people should not depend on aid for very long. You know, in my organization, we call we call this building sustainable
responses. I fully agree, but this takes time and in huge emergencies that are ongoing now, like Sudan, for example, it's not that fast. You need a
proper transition to more sustainable situations and very rapid cuts, as we are observing now, are not going to be conducive to this sustainability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: -- me just a little earlier today. Well still to come. While Donald Trump is optimistic over ceasefire talks with Russia, we'll explain
why Ukrainians are so wary of any promises of peace. More on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well, a headline this hour. Donald Trump says there is a very good chance of swiftly ending the war between Russia and Ukraine. The U.S.
president said Sunday, he'd be speaking to Vladimir Putin on Tuesday and discussions would include how to divide up territory and power stations,
for example, amongst other things, while Mr. Trump sounding positive, there are different noises coming from the European Union where officials say
they don't believe Russia wants to end the fighting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAJA KALLAS, E.U. HIGH REPRESENTATIVE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Those conditions that they have presented, it shows that they don't really want peace,
actually, because they are presenting as conditions all their ultimate goals that they want to achieve from the war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, as negotiations over a ceasefire in Ukraine continue, a feeling of Deja vu haunting President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians demands
to avoid a Minsk three are growing stronger, referencing the 2014 agreement that was hailed as a deal to end the fighting in Ukraine's Donbas region.
CNN's Clare Sebastian explains.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: We need a durable and lasting peace, not a Minsk three.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than a decade since their doomed attempt to end the fighting in Ukraine's Donbas
region, and over three years since Russia's full-scale invasion killed any last hope of their revival. The Minsk accords are far from (INAUDIBLE)
[10:50:06]
VOLODYMR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): I told President Trump about this, if you can get Putin to end the war, that's
great. But know that he can cheat. He deceived me like that after the Minsk ceasefire.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Ukraine now desperate to avoid repeat.
ZELENSKYY: -- is really very important, just and lasting peace for Ukraine.
SEBASTIAN: Minsk two signed in February 2015 after Minsk, one broke down, offered what looked on paper like a solution to a bloody 10-month war
between Kyiv's forces and Russian-backed separatists. It called for an immediate and comprehensive ceasefire, the withdrawal of heavy weapons on
both sides with a security zone in between. And it also laid out a political compromise that allowed Kyiv to keep the separatist-controlled
territory.
A special regime in those areas, and constitutional reform with decentralization as a key element. But there's one thing it didn't mention.
SABINE FISCHER, SENIOR FELLOW, GERMANS INSTITUTION FOR INTERNATIONAL AND SECURITY AFFAIRS: The biggest problem with the Minsk agreements was that
Russia was never mentioned as a party to the conflict. Russia actually had no obligation at all with regard to the implementation of the Minsk
agreements.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Now, in the fourth year of a full-scale war, Russia no longer denies involvement, but false narratives like claims that
Zelenskyy is an illegitimate president, still part of the playbook.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): Because of his illegitimacy, he has no right to sign anything.
FISCHER (through translator): We all want a peaceful strength.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Ukraine's European allies, the failure of Minsk reinforces the need to strengthen Ukraine militarily. In 2014 the first
deal was signed after a brutal defeat in the Donetsk town of Ilovais'k. Minsk too, agreed on as fierce fighting raged for the town of Debaltseve.
JEN PSAKI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Russian military has deployed a large amount of artillery and multiple rocket launcher systems
around Debaltseve.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Ukraine, first outgunned, then politically outmaneuvered, something Michael Bociurkiw witnessed firsthand as then
spokesperson for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's monitoring mission in Ukraine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That whole process was viewed by the Ukrainians as something that was forced down their throat. It was almost a betrayal of
Ukraine.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Amid mounting bloodshed, the Minsk accords ultimately papered over the core issue, experts say. Russia's desire to
control Ukraine's political future.
FISCHER: Comprehensive ceasefire agreements are not negotiated quickly. I mean, they're very complicated, many intricacies, and this is, of course, a
huge problem and risk for Ukraine.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
ANDERSON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Pope Francis and the tango both from Argentina. So, it seemed natural to a group of devoted dancers that they should get together to
perform a tango tribute for the pontiff. On Sunday, they gathered outside the Rome Hospital, where the pope continues to receive treatment for
pneumonia, and they offered one dancer called a prayer in motion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAIANA GUSPERO, TANGO DANCER (through translator): I care about him very much. I'm very religious. I had the fortune of dancing for him and I know
that Tango is very important in his life.
[10:55:01]
He loves it deeply. So, I thought, why not gather all the tango dancers who are here in Rome and come to dance? A prayer in motion for him to sent him
our energy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, for today's parting shot, she will be seeing green in honor of St. Patrick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Big parade, shamrocks and festive drinks to celebrate Ireland's patrons, say the man behind the spread of Christianity in the country.
Although the day has religious roots. It is celebrated around the world to honor Irish culture. And on this special day, you can head to CNN digital
platform to find out how you might be mispronouncing some common Irish names.
That's it for CONNECT THE WORLD from team working with me here. It's a very good evening. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
