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U.S. Middle East Envoy Steve Witkoff Meets with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel; U.S. State Department Imposes Sanctions on Palestinian Authority Officials, Palestine Liberation Organization Members; Interview with Danny Danon, Israeli Ambassador to the U.N.; Trump Tariffs Face Legal Battle in Federal Court; Arab States Call on Hamas to Disarm, Relinquish Power; Intelligent Future with Leandro Aolita on Quantum Computing. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired July 31, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): Welcome to the second hour of the show. I'm Becky Anderson in London, where the time is just after 3 pm in
the afternoon.
U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff is in Israel. He has been meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This comes as the U.S. is growing increasingly
isolated from its allies on the Palestinian and Gaza issue.
Donald Trump defends his trade strategy. The president says tariffs are making the U.S., quote, "great and rich again."
Well, mounting pressure on the White House about the Epstein files continues. U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson said he wants everything
possible on the Jeffrey Epstein files to be released.
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ANDERSON: U.S. Middle east envoy Steve Witkoff back in Israel today, meeting with the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and maybe, maybe
carrying a stronger message from the U.S. president to reach a ceasefire in Gaza.
Donald Trump this week talking about people starving in Gaza, contradicting the prime minister's comments that starvation isn't happening there.
Well, as Palestinians struggle to find food, health officials in Gaza report more than 150 starvation deaths, more than half of those children.
That struggle has set off chaos and danger around aid distribution sites.
And I've got to warn you, the video that you are about to see, which has just come in to CNN, contains disturbing and graphic images.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): The Gaza health ministry reporting more than 60 deaths near this one site in northern Gaza. The video from a Gaza City
hospital that received the bodies of the dead, along with injured victims.
The IDF saying that troops fired warning shots in the area but it's not aware of any casualties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Italy's president on Wednesday slammed what he called, quote, "an involuntary repetition of mistakes by Israel's military,"
implying that that can lead to what he calls "indiscriminate killings."
Our senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman, back with us this hour. We are also joined by CNN senior White House reporter, Kevin Liptak.
And Kevin, let me start with you.
What do we understand to be the point of Witkoff's trip to Israel?
What's his message to the Israeli prime minister?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it seems as if he has several objectives on this visit to Israel. And I'll just point out it's
his first known trip to that country since May, which kind of gives you a sense of the number of issues that he feels like he has to address, the
first of which is the humanitarian situation.
And we have heard president Trump, over the last several days, really sharpen his position, breaking with the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu,
on this issue of starvation in the enclave. Netanyahu had said that there is no starvation.
But president Trump, after seeing the images, after being affected, according to White House officials, by what he was seeing in the video from
the ground there, said that you would have to be pretty coldhearted to deny that was happening.
And that is something that I think Witkoff is going to want to discuss with the prime minister while he's there.
We also understand that he could be visiting some of these aid distribution sites inside Gaza, run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which is the
private U.S.-backed group that has run some of these aid sites that have been the site of some of these scenes of chaos, where you've seen the
Israeli military firing on the crowds there.
That scheme that the U.S. and Israel have set up has not alleviated the hunger crisis in any way. But Witkoff and the president have stood behind
that organization as a way to distribute aid.
The other thing that I think Witkoff is really going to want to discuss with Netanyahu is the state of these ceasefire for hostage talks. Remember
last week, Witkoff's team pulled out of discussions that were in Doha to try and bring these talks over the finish line after what they said was an
unserious response from Hamas.
At the time, Witkoff also said that they would explore what he called alternative options for bringing the hostages out and getting aid into
Gaza.
We have not heard many specifics about what those alternative options might look like but you can certainly expect that that will be something that
Witkoff will want to discuss with the Israeli leader as they work to try and resolve some of the aspects of this crisis.
Now earlier this morning, president Trump, as Witkoff was sitting down with Netanyahu, did seem to offer something of a shifting tone on the
humanitarian situation. He said that the fastest way to end the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is for Hamas to surrender and release the
hostages.
So you see him shifting the onus back to Hamas after earlier this week saying that it was on Israel to try and resolve some of this.
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So the president, I think, running hot and cold on Netanyahu in some ways. But clearly this morning, putting the onus back on Hamas, to try and get a
resolution to the humanitarian crisis.
ANDERSON: Stand by. I want to come back to you because we've just had some news in -- on the State Department imposing sanctions on the PA and the
Palestinian Liberation Organization or PLO.
I just want to get your perspective on why and specifically why now.
Before we do that, Ben, we've just seen some video a few minutes ago, said to show the bodies of dozens of aid workers killed in Gaza.
What do we know about this?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we understand, Becky, is that yesterday evening, around 8 pm local time, that several
trucks crossed from Israel into Gaza at the Zikim crossing, which is one of the main crossings for the entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza.
And soon after those trucks got inside Gaza, they were swarmed by hundreds of desperate people, trying to get their hands on some of this food that is
coming in. There was gunfire. The Israelis claim -- they allege that they did not open fire except to fire warning shots.
But the result is, of course, that, according to the director of Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, at least 50 people were killed, several hundred
injured. And this is just the latest incident where we have seen many people killed trying to get their hands on some form of food.
And this really comes within the context of the fact that Israel basically stopped aid of any kind coming into Gaza back in March and refused to
cooperate with the United Nations, which has had in place for decades -- and I've seen it time and time again functioning quite well in Gaza.
To hand out things like flour and cooking oil and lentils and chickpeas and whatnot to the people of Gaza. Israel, for a long time, alleging that Hamas
was basically hijacking that system and siphoning off that food.
But it turns out, according to recent reporting, that wasn't true. But the Israelis, with some support from the Americans, basically put an end to
this effective, efficient system of food distribution.
The Americans, going back to the Biden administration, which tried with that Gaza pier, which was a complete disaster but cost American taxpayers
hundreds of millions of dollars, that didn't work.
Now the Trump administration is supporting the so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, around which -- it's just a handful of distribution points --
more than 1,000 people have been killed.
So what we're seeing is repeated failures by Israel, by the U.S. administration, whether Biden or Trump, to set up a system to provide the
most basic needs to the people of Gaza.
And until the system is restored that was working before, the U.N. system, with other NGOs that have functioned in Gaza for years, the expectation is
that more people will continue to be killed, just trying to get food to feed their families, Becky.
ANDERSON: Kevin, let me bring you back in before I let you go.
Thank you. Ben.
Why is the State Department imposing sanctions -- this has just been announced today -- on the PA, the Palestinian Authority, and the PLO?
We can see a list of what the U.S. State Department's reasoning is.
I'm just wondering what you understand to be behind this.
And why now?
LIPTAK: I think the timing here is quite critical. It comes as this diplomatic pressure is mounting on Israel, a number of states saying that
they will recognize a Palestinian state at September's U.N. General Assembly.
And, you know, the timing here is important because what those sanctions, what these sanctions would do, would prevent visas for certain individuals
-- they don't name them -- but certain individuals from the PA and the PLO from entering the United States.
And that raises the prospect of whether that means that the U.S. would not issue visas for these individuals to come to the U.N. General Assembly,
where these nations plan to recognize the Palestinian state.
I think that's an important piece of the timing here. The rationale is that these individuals, who they don't name, are undermining the prospects for
peace and also what they call internationalizing the conflict, including through the International Criminal Court, where there have been cases
raised against Israel.
And so, you know, you see the U.S. here trying to bolster its case and bolster Israel's case ahead of those critical U.N. meetings.
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And I think that this perhaps is likely an extension of that, as these Palestinian organizations, as they traditionally do, send individuals to
attend and to speak and to meet with other officials while they're here.
This could put a damper on their ability to come to New York, to come to the U.N. headquarters and receive what is expected to be an overwhelming
amount of support, including from top American allies, whether it's France or Britain or Canada who plan to recognize a Palestinian state for the
first time.
All of these members of the G7 really taking extraordinary steps to try and put diplomatic pressure on Israel to ease back on Gaza.
ANDERSON: Yes.
Good to have you both. Thank you.
Well, joining me now live is Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Danon.
Sir, it's good to have you; appreciate your time. We've got an awful lot to get through here. Let's start with that pressure building on Israel, even
from allies like France, U.K. Canada. They want to see an end to this war, a permanent ceasefire.
What will it take for Israel to end this war, sir?
DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Becky, this war will not end with hostages in Gaza, period. You know, it's a long war, painful one. We
paid a very heavy price, not only on October 7th but since then. You know, 900 soldiers died and we paid a very heavy price. And we are paying it
every day.
And also we see the suffering in Gaza. But you know, our allies and friends should understand that we didn't want this war and we want to see a closure
for this war. But in order to achieve that, we need the hostages to be back home and Hamas to be disarmed.
And, you know, I saw all the statements that the U.N. this week from so many countries who came here and spoke about a Palestinian state, you know,
they all mentioned that, you know, Hamas will not be in the game, will not be in the equation.
And I ask myself, how do they want to achieve that?
Do they want to ask Hamas to leave?
We saw what happened 20 years ago when Hamas took over Gaza. You know, they shot the PA leaders and they took over Gaza. So we are doing the work now,
trying to get rid of Hamas in order to build a better future, not only for us but also for the Palestinians in Gaza.
ANDERSON: Look, you've alluded to the declaration from this U.S. co- sponsored Saudi- French co-sponsored summit on Palestine just this week in New York. The world agreed that Hamas is responsible for October the 7th.
Arab nations, including Saudi, Qatar, Egypt signing a declaration, saying that Hamas must put down its arms, that it must not have a role in
governance going forward.
But this is about going forward, right?
The U.K., meantime, has very specifically said, at present, it is in Israel's power to act. Foreign secretary Lammy said that the U.K. will
recognize a Palestinian state. And I quote him here, sir.
"Unless the Israeli government acts to end the appalling situation in Gaza, ends its military campaign and commits to a long, sustainable peace," and
he also had extremely strong words for Hamas. But separately, he is saying it is Israel that must act.
So I ask you again, what is Israel prepared to do at this point to end the war?
DANON: You know, as we speak, you know, there is a framework for a ceasefire. You know, ambassador Witkoff now is in Israel. You know, the
negotiators worked really hard to put a framework for a ceasefire. And we said, yes; Hamas rejected it.
And it's not me saying it. You can ask the Qataris the Egyptians, the Americans, they worked really hard on this framework. So what's happening
now, actually, with all the respect to all the dignitaries you mentioned, they are actually supporting Hamas now because Hamas believes that they
don't have to negotiate anymore.
Because the pressure from the international community, they believe, will force us to leave Gaza and leave the hostages behind. It's just not going
to happen. So I would expect the minister and all the other ministers to put pressure on Hamas to accept the ceasefire.
It's a very detailed, you know, framework. It was agreed by all parties in the last minute. Hamas came with new demands. So I think those who think
that support the Palestinians are actually doing the opposite for the people in Gaza today, a ceasefire would have been a, you know, a few months
of hope, being able to try to reconstruct.
And for us, receiving half of the hostages was very meaningful. I hope it will happen. There are still negotiations. But with all due respect to all
those hollow declarations and statements, we are committed to bring them home, all of them. We are not going to leave them behind.
ANDERSON: And I think, you know, I've heard you speak about this just in the past few days.
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I mean, you really do argue that this is diplomatic window dressing to a degree. And you argue that diplomatic pressure plays into Hamas' hands.
But has Israel, with the greatest of respect, not brought this criticism upon itself with the blockade, the aid blockade beginning back in March,
that has led to the images that we have seen and these accounts, repeated accounts of malnutrition and starvation?
DANON: Well, I think that there is no starvation in Gaza. The only starvation is a starvation campaign in Gaza. You know, I follow very
carefully the U.N. statements. You know, a U.N. official said that 14,000 babies will die within 48 hours. And then he retracted his words.
"The New York Times," they put a picture of a poor Palestinian baby who suffers from a genetic disease. And they claim he was starved by Israel.
And then they had to retract and actually admit that it wasn't the case.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Ambassador, let me just stop you for a moment, because I have to say, this is what Donald Trump, the U.S. president, very specifically said
about those images. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Those are kids that are starving. That's -- I mean, they are starving. And you see the mothers, they love them so much. And there's just
nothing they seem to be able to do. They got to get them food and we're going to get them food.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And he said, he said, you can't fake those images.
Are you telling us that Donald Trump is wrong and is part of this perpetuation, as you describe it, of Hamas propaganda?
DANON: There is a campaign. No one can deny it. And unfortunately, it was a successful campaign. You know, Hamas started a few months ago with a
campaign about the hospitals. But that was very easy for us to prove that they are lying. You know, when they claim starvation and famine, it's hard
to prove it.
But you know, look what's happening in the last three days. You know, in the last three days, Becky, we allowed hundreds of trucks to enter Gaza.
You know, no one can blame Israel now.
And still you see that the same allegations continue. So they will continue because it's a way for Hamas to put pressure on Israel.
ANDERSON: Sir, it is --
DANON: -- for the international community. It's really hard to blame Hamas. They don't speak with Hamas. So the only thing they have --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: It's not an issue of 200 trucks on one day. The U.N. said back in April that no humanitarian or commercial supplies had entered since
March the 2nd, making it the longest ban on aid of the war.
And the WFP described starvation as, quote, "When a person does not receive enough food to sustain their basic bodily functions and stay alive," so,
with respect, you know -- and you're alluding in "The New York Times" reporting to the body of a sick child.
You know, a chronically sick child, sir, can be starved to death.
DANON: Well, you know, Becky, look at the picture again. Maybe you can show it to the audience. You will see the brother of this poor child and
you can see that there is no problem of starvation in this family. And that's exactly the case.
You know, there is -- you know, I will deny it. There is suffering in Gaza and we acknowledge it. But for us, the suffering is a tragedy. For Hamas,
it's a strategy. They want to continue with the suffering.
And I'm telling you now, we are willing to sign today the ceasefire.
Why Hamas is not signing the ceasefire?
Because we know why. They want to stay in power. They want to continue with the suffering and they are using the suffering of the people of Gaza.
ANDERSON: Ambassador, one of the --
DANON: We know it's complicated but we have to make sure that the day when we declare that we finish the war, Hamas is not in power. Otherwise, the
people of Gaza will continue to suffer.
ANDERSON: One of the very contentious sticking points, as I understand it -- and I've been covering these talks since the first temporary truce back
in November of 2023 -- is that Hamas -- and now supported by so much of the rest of the world -- wants to see a permanent end to this war, not just a
temporary truce.
DANON: A permanent end and then what?
And then Hamas will continue to threaten Israel and use the Palestinian people. You know, Becky, we left Gaza 20 years ago, exactly 20 years ago
from today, we decided to pull out from Gaza completely. We took out the Jewish communities. We took out all the military bases. Even the cemeteries
we took out.
And we gave the keys to the Palestinians. And we hope that the PA will build a society, will build their own future. Look what happened.
So the question is, what will happen next?
Do we want to allow Hamas to regain control and continue to threaten and use the Palestinians?
We will not allow that.
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We want to make sure that, once we pull out, there will be a better future for the region and a better future is without Hamas.
ANDERSON: The agreement at this New York conference focused on the -- what they have agreed is the issue here, which is of a two-state solution. And
you've accused those countries, recognizing a Palestinian state, of empty speeches. That -- and you've said won't bring progress.
What will bring progress?
DANON: You know, I'm very disappointed because I know many of the players for many years. They know better than that. They know what requires to move
forward. You know, we need to fight the radicals and allow, you know, moderate elements to negotiate with Israel.
And we want peace. We proved it. We've signed peace with so many countries in the region. But to come with empty declarations, with a unilateral
decision at the U.N., it's not going to bring peace. And actually it's making achieving peace much harder for all the parties, because some people
believe now they don't need to negotiate.
So first we have to face the radicals, get rid of them. And then we can sit down with the moderate elements and speak about our future in the region.
ANDERSON: Ambassador, there are many who are trying to understand what Israel sees as a solution and certainly its position as far as a
Palestinian state is concerned.
That question was put to Benjamin Netanyahu recently at the White House by a reporter. So let's just have a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you think that there can be a two-state solution that creates an independent?
TRUMP: I don't know if I'd ask me that question. You have the greatest man in the world to answer that age-old question, two states.
Go ahead. Give him your honest answer.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: I think Palestinians should have all the powers to govern themselves but none of the powers to threaten
us. And that means that certain powers, like overall security, will always remain in our hands.
Now that is a fact. And no one in Israel will agree to anything else because we don't commit suicide. We want life. We cherish life for
ourselves, for our neighbors. And I think we can work out a peace between us and the entire Middle East with president Trump's leadership and by
working together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: He said, at the end, though, he went on to say, if that doesn't sound like a Palestinian state or an independent state, so be it. We don't
care.
I think international parties, including Arab states, have laid out what they want very specifically from Palestinians in terms of them being a
partner for peace, a reformed Palestinian Authority, a technocratic government. No Hamas involved in any way of the governance of Gaza or
indeed other areas going forward.
I just wonder, as you listen to that statement from Benjamin Netanyahu again, what it says about whether he is the right Israeli partner for
peace, for these Arab parties working so hard to try and effect a peace deal at this point.
DANON: Becky, allow me not to be diplomatic for a minute. And I want to show you the feelings of Israelis today. The very discussion about a
Palestinian state today, it's out of context. We have 50 hostages who were kidnapped from their homes in the tunnels of Hamas. And they came from Gaza
after we pulled out from Gaza.
So today, for us to have a discussion about a Palestinian state when Hamas is in charge and is holding the hostages is out of the question. You know,
before October 7th, there was a debate in Israel. You had people who supported the idea, people who were against it. We are a democracy. But
today you don't have that debate.
(CROSSTALK)
DANON: -- let me finish -- today, today, even the fact that the international community is trying to put pressure on us instead of bringing
the hostages back, that's shameful.
And the feeling we have today, that probably the people don't understand what happened on October 7th to us. You know, we had a peaceful ceasefire
with the border with Gaza. Hamas invaded Israel, took the hostages. They have to bring them back before anything else.
ANDERSON: Ambassador, think --
DANON: -- resolution, we will have no, zero patience, zero tolerance for any idea until we get the hostages back to their families.
ANDERSON: OK.
(CROSSTALK) ANDERSON: very, very clear. It was -- I thought it was very significant that we heard so many international potential partners for Israel.
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Making it very clear that Hamas has no role, should put down its arms and has no role going forward and that the hostages must be released. I think
that that -- there's no argument about that. But the point is --
DANON: What are they going to do about it?
What are -- what are they going to do about it?
You know, it's very nice to say we don't want a ceasefire.
ANDERSON: But hostage deal would be a good start.
DANON: -- going to deal with Hamas. You know, we are going to do the work for the world the same way we fought Hezbollah. We fought Iran. And now we
are fighting Hamas. We are the ones who are doing the dirty work for the international community.
ANDERSON: Ambassador Danny Danon, appreciate your time today on what is a very, very, very critical issue. And the timing for this interview
extremely important. Thank you very much indeed.
It is a very busy news schedule as well. Coming up, Trump's trade agenda facing its first major legal test. A federal court hearing kicks off this
hour and we will have the details on that coming up.
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ANDERSON: Well, markets in the United States have been open for just under an hour now. Let's have a look at how things are trending.
And they are trending higher, particularly those two indices stuffed with tech stocks. Investors reacting to some major tech earnings reports and
keeping, at the same time, of course, a close eye on trade negotiations ahead of president Donald Trump's Friday deadline.
We've seen some agreements over the past several days. European Union-South Korea landing a deal that will see a 15 percent levy on their imports to
the U.S. Some of America's biggest trading partners, like Canada and Mexico and indeed China.
Are they still negotiating all this playing out?
Mr. Trump's agenda is facing legal challenges. Federal court is in session this hour for a case brought forward by Democratic states and several small
business owners, alleging that the U.S. president has overstepped his authority. CNN's Matt Egan following all of this and he joins us now.
Walk us through these legal challenges and what impact they could have on Trump's plans, Matt.
MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR WRITER: Yes, Becky. The president's trade war powers are facing a legal threat. Now this is -- these are oral
arguments that are taking place at the U.S. Court of Appeals.
This is a case that's challenging the president's use of emergency powers to justify some but not all of his tariffs. Now there is obviously a lot at
stake here: the U.S. economy, the world economy, financial markets and basically every U.S. trading partner.
Now at issue is the president's use of a 1970s law called the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. This is a law that's being used to justify
some of the president's country-specific tariffs.
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Such as the ones that are being threatened on India and Brazil and a number of different other countries.
Now five small businesses and a dozen states that are led by Democrats, they're arguing that the use of that law to justify those tariffs is
unlawful, that the president has overstepped his bounds. And the president is clearly watching this case very clearly.
"If you're looking at a Truth Social page, he put a post up earlier, where he said, "If our country was not able to protect itself by using tariffs
against tariffs, we would be 'dead' with no chance of survival or success."
So I think that shows how critical the president believes tariffs are to his economic strategy. It's an interesting point to raise because, of
course, the United States has become the biggest economy in the world over the last century.
And at a time when tariffs have actually been coming down -- and they've been relatively low until now, of course -- now we should note that this
could take weeks or months before the court ends up ruling here.
And ultimately, some analysts do believe that this case is going to end up at the Supreme Court.
Now if courts end up striking down the president's use of these emergency powers to justify his tariffs, it would call into question part of his
trade strategy, right?
It could even undermine some of those trade agreements that the U.S. says they've reached with a number of different countries, because, again, those
tariffs do rely on this 1970s law.
It's also worth remembering, though, the president has other tariff authorities. Right? When you think about some of the tariffs that have been
threatened and actually imposed on steel, aluminum, copper, lumber, semiconductors, et cetera, those tariffs actually rely on a different legal
authority.
And then there's the China tariffs. That's another legal authority. So I think the point is, even if the president ends up losing this case, it
could, one, take quite some time. And two, he could always shift and use different legal authorities.
Yet this is a very fascinating case to pay attention to. And, of course, it's coming just as a number of different countries reach these frameworks
with the United States and dozens of other countries face potentially significantly higher tariffs starting tomorrow. Becky.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, sir. Thank you.
Well, of course, Donald Trump -- the first is a hard deadline, says Donald Trump. There will be no extensions and a deal with Canada, for example,
still outstanding. Meantime, Canada is the latest country to say it plans to recognize a Palestinian state.
We'll discuss what that means with our guest, the editor-in-chief of "The National" and a good friend of this show. Just ahead.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): And welcome back. You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson for you. Here are your headlines.
And Canada has joined the ranks of Western nations saying they will recognize an independent Palestinian state. Prime minister Mark Carney says
it will happen at the U.N. General Assembly in September.
France announced a similar move this month and the U.K. says it will do the same if Israel doesn't agree to a ceasefire and ensure improved conditions
in Gaza.
Well, U.S. president Trump signing an executive order on Wednesday to raise tariffs on Brazil by 40 percent. That brings the tariff rate on Brazilian
goods to 50 percent starting on Friday.
President Trump had threatened to jack up levies if Brazil didn't call off the trial of former president Jair Bolsonaro, a close ally of Trump.
Brazil's president Lula da Silva has not backed down.
Rescuers are searching for survivors trapped under rubble after Kyiv was pummeled by Russian drones and missiles overnight. A 6-year old boy and his
mum were among at least six people killed. The latest attacks coming after U.S. president Donald Trump on Tuesday said he was giving the Kremlin a 10-
day deadline to agree to a ceasefire.
ANDERSON: Well, Canada then intending to recognize a Palestinian state in September at the United Nations General Assembly. The prime minister saying
that his country has long been committed to a two-state solution.
It follows similar announcements, as I say, from France and the U.K. Both Israel and the U.S. have criticized the move, saying that it rewards Hamas.
Well, joining us now to discuss is Mina Al-Oraibi. She's editor-in-chief of "The National," an English language newspaper based in Abu Dhabi and a
columnist for "Foreign Policy" magazine.
It's really good to have you. I want to start with some news that we've just learned in the past couple of hours, Mina, which the timing of which I
think we should discuss.
The U.S. State Department is imposing sanctions on Palestinian Authority and Palestine Liberation Organization officials. We can see a list of what
the U.S. State Department's reasoning is on the screen.
Now why do you believe that this move has been taken now?
MINA AL-ORAIBI, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE NATIONAL": The move is coming at a time when the push for a Palestinian state is gaining momentum everywhere,
except, frankly, in Israel and Washington.
And so, of course, we've seen the U.N. meetings that have been happening. You've had foreign ministers of Saudi Arabia, France, the U.K. and many
others. UAE and Gulf countries also had representatives there. Jordan, very importantly also, they're calling with one voice to recognize a Palestinian
state.
If we keep talking about a two-state solution, you need two states. One of them is Palestine, the other is Israel.
And so the timing of this comes as the State Department pushes back against the Palestinian Authority.
If there is global consensus that Hamas cannot rule Gaza and that any future government of a Palestinian state has to exclude the extremists, the
Palestinian Authority at the moment, despite the many criticisms of the Palestinian Authority, it's the only actor that would lead such a
Palestinian state.
So it's a way to undercut it. What's interesting in the State Department sanctions is they're saying that these organizations, the PA and the PLO,
went in, internationalized their conflict because of them going to the ICC and the International Court of Justice and International Criminal Court.
Now this is something that many people are shocked at, because going to the international courts is what we would expect to happen in a place where we
respect international law. And the courts that are there, mandated by the U.N.
ANDERSON: It's fascinating. Your analysis is really important and spot on, I have to say. Arab Muslim states, including Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt
have, for the first time, to your point, issued a joint call for Hamas to disarm and relinquish power in the Gaza Strip. France called the move
unprecedented.
I asked Israeli ambassador to the U.N., Danny Danon, about that and the wider declaration on a two-state solution. Here's what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANON: We going to deal with Hamas?
You know, we are going to do the work for the world the same way we fought Hezbollah. We fought Iran and now we are fighting Hamas. We are the ones
who are doing the dirty work for the international community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: He's effectively called everything that was going on in the U.S. diplomatic window dressing, doesn't carry any weight.
[10:40:00]
All it does is provide Hamas some support. We're hearing sort of the same lines from the U.S. The U.S. and Israel, of course, not involved, very
specifically not involved in that summit this week. I just wonder what your reaction is very specifically to that last line. You know, "We're doing the
region's dirty work." We're doing their bidding.
And you're in the region. I live and work in the region, normally.
Your reaction, how much weight does this carry?
AL-ORAIBI: I mean, one of my reactions is, well, Israel actually supported Hamas for quite some time and undercut civilian efforts to actually have a
leadership and a proper setup in Palestine to allow for governance.
And actually, Hamas was getting backhanded support from Israel to undercut any efforts to have a Palestinian secular state or at least a civil state
that doesn't rely on militants.
So actually that, in some way, also antagonizes those in this part of the world that want peace and actually see, how do we have a Palestinian setup
that can govern its people and have its legitimate right to be a state with a government?
He didn't give any solutions. So we know what Israel is against but we don't know what they're for. And the Israeli government really needs to
start highlighting what it is for, to say that what is happening in the U.N. and in New York and hopefully during the U.N. General Assembly.
To see more countries recognize the Palestinian state, to be against that is a way of saying they don't believe in a two-state solution, which we've
heard members of the cabinet that the ambassador represents that government, not believing that a two-state solution.
So what is the alternative?
Continued war?
No one in this region wants that certainly. I think people of all countries, Israel included, are tired of war and want to see a peaceful
path forward. And no solutions are coming from the Israeli government.
ANDERSON: Mina, I'm short on time because we ran a little long with the ambassador.
It's always good to have you on. We'll have you on again. I want to close out, though, with an op-ed that that Mina wrote for "FP" as a columnist.
And this is about the Gulf prioritizing peace over continued conflict, not least in the aftermath of the recent Iran strikes.
Mina wrote in an op-ed in "Foreign Policy," quote, "With missiles flying, the leaders of Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates chose to
prioritize reconciliation and calm.
"Put differently, this means that the carefully cultivated ties between Iran and the Gulf bore fruit. Tehran should not take this for granted just
because war has been avoided. Gulf states will not forget what happened."
Next time we speak to Mina, we will discuss the way forward. It is an ongoing discussion around the region. It's very good to have her, though,
out of Abu Dhabi today.
Well, still to come, with all the talk about AI, we take a quantum leap into the endless possibilities of quantum computing. That is after this.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:45:00]
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ANDERSON: Quantum computers don't have a monitor, a mouse or a keyboard.
That's for the likes of you and me or most of us. Quantum computing is about processing sets of ultra complex equations that could just help solve
some of the world's biggest problems.
Well, as part of CNN's new "Intelligent Future" series, exploring how advanced tech has the potential to revolutionize our lives, I sat down with
the acting chief researcher at TII Abu Dhabi to discuss the risks and possible rewards.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
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ANDERSON (voice-over): Does it keep you awake at night that this is a huge bet, a multi-billion dollar bet --
DR. LEANDRO AOLITA, ACTING CHIEF RESEARCHER, QUANTUM RESEARCH CENTER, TECHNOLOGY INNOVATION INSTITUTE (voice-over): No.
ANDERSON (voice-over): -- on quantum computing that you are involved in?
AOLITA (voice-over): I believe in what I do, Becky. I'm very convinced about what we're doing. But yes, the invest -- the stakes are big. The
stakes are really big.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Leandro, thank you. It's good to have you here. We're talking about quantum computing, which, quite frankly, to many
people, feels like something out of "Star Trek." You know, this is not a field that is well understood.
How do you explain it?
AOLITA (voice-over): Good question.
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AOLITA (voice-over): Quantum computing is a new form of computation, a new paradigm for computing. It's an experimental technology.
So this is different from classical mechanics, right?
You have classical mechanics, where you have balls moving at a certain velocity and being at a certain position. And then you have the microscopic
world of atoms and nucleons and nuclei and electrons, where things can be in quantum entanglement or in a superposition of being in two places at the
same time and these type of things.
ANDERSON: Your brain is so big that you think that's the basic way of explaining quantum computing to people.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: I'm already lost. No, I'm not.
Look, but for many people still, I guess the question is what can quantum computing do that a regular computer that we all are used to using can't?
AOLITA: Right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AOLITA (voice-over): So a classical computer essentially works the basic unit of information, is the bit. So this is a variable that can be in a --
in a state zero or in state one. And that we use for storing information, processing information in our devices.
Now a qubit can exist in a superposition, in a quantum superposition of being in two states at the same time. So that's a very abstract
construction. So you can think of something that can be in state zero and one at the same time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AOLITA: And this opens the doors to an entire new way of processing information.
ANDERSON: And that lies at the heart of the difference between quantum computing --
AOLITA: There you go.
ANDERSON (voice-over): -- and regular.
AOLITA: There you go.
Quantum computers will not replace classical computers or classically boosted AI algorithms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AOLITA (voice-over): Quantum computer will integrate to it in a complementary way. So, for instance, maybe the large language models, the
architecture will still be classical but quantum computers will help on the training of those models.
ANDERSON (voice-over): There's a huge race, isn't there, going on between the U.S. and China at present to be supreme in technology?
And we've seen that in the AI space.
[10:50:00]
We're also seeing that in the quantum space as well.
Correct?
AOLITA (voice-over): Correct. Yes. There's a big -- that's a big, big issue. This is not going to be a single player -- a single player game.
Right? And there are going to be also exploitation bands.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: And like we do with AI chips from the States.
AOLITA: Just like we're seeing with GPUs in the AI industry. Right?
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AOLITA (voice-over): So it is extremely important for the UAE to secure this technology in the country. Right. This is one of the most ambitious
initiatives of the UAE and Abu Dhabi government in particular, in terms of innovation in their country.
There's a long tradition of adopting technologies from elsewhere. But this is a very city (ph) -- AI in particular. It's a very serious effort to
create high-tech, deep-tech businesses in the country.
And we do have teams; for instance, in the Quantum Research Center, we have a lab for quantum computing hardware. We have superconducting qubit
experiments. We have quantum sensing and quantum communication efforts as well as a big team in quantum algorithms and software. Right.
So we have partnerships with quantum hardware providers, like IonQ or Quantinuum. We're in conversations with --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Which industries does quantum have the potential to completely revolutionize?
AOLITA: Yes.
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AOLITA (voice-over): I think it's probably going to be in the pharmaceutical industry with transformative developments that can happen on
drug design. There's lots of interest from manufacturers of batteries and solar panels connected to material science.
And then I think there's going to be a big, big impact on data science and machine learning. Maybe it's going to take a bit longer than the chemical
and pharmaceutical applications. But the AI and deep learning and generative modeling sectors, this is going to be impacted by quantum
technologies.
ANDERSON (voice-over): When will that be?
AOLITA (voice-over): That's the trillion-dollar question. If you look at the road maps of the major quantum hardware companies, they all talk about
large-scale, fault-tolerant quantum computers. In maybe 10 years, mid '30s, people are saying, right from the '30s, early 30s --
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON (voice-over): Between now and then --
AOLITA: Yes.
ANDERSON: -- for the next decade, you will be faced regularly with that criticism, this could all just be hype.
AOLITA: There is hype. This is clear. Enthusiasm is clearly good. Overpromising can be counterproductive for the field. At the same time,
this is fostering lots of funds, both from private and public sector going into research, which is good.
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ANDERSON (voice-over): What's the influence on my life today?
AOLITA (voice-over): I think on the life of people, it's still early to talk about a concrete impact. So here, for instance, in the UAE, there was
recently a new regulation at the national level for institutions to migrate to quantum safe encryption schemes, banks and governmental companies.
They have teams now working together with us to really understand how this migration, how this migration is going to happen.
Then, on the other hand, you have big stakeholders here, like ADNOC, ENOC, big companies like that. They are already putting resources and effort to
really understand how to adapt to this.
ANDERSON (voice-over): So talk to me about the work that you've been doing with ADNOC, for example, which is the big national oil company here.
AOLITA (voice-over): So with ADNOC, currently we have two projects signed. For instance, let me tell you about something cool.
So there is one project where we're going to use quantum sensors to map the magnetic field of the Earth on the territory of the UAE to an unprecedented
precision.
And this can have not only, of course, relevance to an industrial operation like ADNOC but even also for GPS navigation. And so the idea there is that,
if you have a very precise mapping of the Earth's magnetic field, then you can blindly navigate that with these type of ideas.
ANDERSON (voice-over): If I asked you to give me three trends or ideas that you expect to revolutionize industry and reshape my life going
forward, what would they be?
AOLITA (voice-over): I think clearly we need to mention AI. The level of advances that are taking place nowadays with large language models and
other architectures are really something that, 20 years ago, would have been unthinkable.
I think quantum technologies is indeed going to be another revolution. There was a revolution in the '50s in quantum, with the inventions of the
invention of transistors and the laser.
[10:55:00]
Now we're going to go for the second quantum technology revolution. And if I have to name a third one, I think cognitive neuroscience is making lots
of advances, the understanding of the brain.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON (voice-over): What do you mean by that?
AOLITA (voice-over): The understanding of the brain and how conscious, sentient beings arise from some biochemical/electrical circuitry in the
brain.
ANDERSON: Thank you. This has been absolutely fascinating. Thank you.
AOLITA: Right.
I hope it went well.
Right?
Yes?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: I hope that made a little more sense for you. It's fascinating.
That's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. Stay with CNN, though. "ONE WORLD" is up next.
END
