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Connect the World
Russian State Media: Witkoff-Putin Meeting Ends after 3 Hours; New U.S. Immigration Detention Center; Wildfire Blazes in Southern France; Health Secretary RFK Jr., MRNA Vaccines Don't Effectively Protect Against COVID, Flu; HHS Slashing $500 Million for MRNA Vaccine Development. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired August 06, 2025 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
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CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNNI HOST: U.S. Republicans in Congress put the spotlight on Bill and Hillary Clinton over the Epstein scandal. It's 09:00
a.m. in Washington and it's 02:00 p.m. in London. I'm Christina Macfarlane. This is "Connect the World". Also coming up, President Trump's foreign
envoy is in Moscow and a final effort for peace as the threat of sanctions looms.
And are there recession warning signs? The latest U.S. jobs report has economists growing concerned. Well stock markets in New York opens in about
30 minutes from now. We will check in then, but the main indices are looking for direction, edging higher after Tuesday's weaker close.
Investors are concerned about the states of the U.S. economy, and we may have more on that a little later. But we begin in Moscow, where U.S.
Special Envoy Steve Witkoff has just wrapped up a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin that lasted more than three hours.
That's according to Russian state media. Sources tell CNN, the meeting was requested by the Kremlin ahead of U.S. President Donald Trump's Friday
deadline to reach a peace deal with Ukraine or face a new set of sanctions. Mr. Trump says he will wait to see what happens today in Moscow before
making a final decision.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow this hour for us. And so, Fred, what more are we learning about what happened in this meeting? Understand, it's just
wrapped.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Christina, so far, all the information that we're getting is actually coming from the
Russian side. You've just mentioned the fact that the meeting between Steve Witkoff and Vladimir Putin ended, I would say maybe about 45 minutes ago.
And Steve Witkoff motorcade was actually already seen leaving the Kremlin I'm in the Kremlin area right now. What you see behind me is, of course,
St. Basil's Church and the walls of the Kremlin where that meeting took place. Now Senior Kremlin Aide Yuri Ushakov, who also appeared to be in the
room when that meeting took place, at least when Steve Witkoff and Vladimir Putin were greeting each other, Yuri Ushakov was there as well.
He came out a couple of minutes ago and he gave some brief remarks about what transpired in that meeting. He said, of course, that the Ukraine
crisis, as he put it, was discussed. He said that the Russians had received signals, as they put it, from the Trump Administration, from Steve Witkoff,
and had, in turn, also sent signals about Ukraine back towards the Trump Administration.
So clearly, that was a big topic of these talks, but it's unclear whether or not any headway towards a ceasefire was made, which is, of course, what
President Trump has been demanding, or whether or not the Russians put something else on the table in the hopes, of course, of maybe staving off
these sanctions that the Trump Administration has been threatening.
And possibly also those tariffs that President Trump has been threatening to put on customers of Russian oil and gas. The Russians also saying this
is a narrative that we've heard from them since these talks have been going on, since Steve Witkoff has been coming here to Moscow, that also strategic
relations and the improvement of relations between Russia and the United States was also something that was on the table.
Of course, one of the interesting things in these talks, Christina, is that Steve Witkoff, when he landed here in Moscow, was essentially picked up by
Kirill Dmitriev, who is the Head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund and has, for the whole part that these talks have been going on, really been
the point person for Steve Witkoff here in Moscow.
He was with him, and obviously they had been talking a lot about improving strategic economic relations. But again, President Trump has been saying
that his patience is wearing more than thin. You've noted that deadline that he was giving until the end of this week to come to some sort of
movement on a ceasefire towards Ukraine, that otherwise there would be consequences for the Russians.
Unclear whether or not real headway was made, but certainly from what we're hearing from the Russians so far, the very least, that topic was, of
course, the main one that was on the table in these talks that happened here behind those Kremlin walls, Christina.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, interesting to see that meeting with Dmitriev happen as of course, U.S. are weighing whether or not they pull the trigger on those
secondary sanctions. If they do, Fred, what will the impact be, not just for the Russian economy, but also the effort, the war effort, for Russia to
keep funding that effort.
PLEITGEN: Yeah, and it says probably much more than that, even it's the Russian economy. It's possibly the world's economy, could be the U.S.
economy as well. And then, of course, also what the Russians still call their special military operation in Ukraine. One of the things that
President Trump, of course, had said is that even if there are sanctions, he's obviously talking about some strong sanctions against Russia.
He believes that the Russians could probably be able to circumvent those. He's been saying that the Russians have been very good at avoiding those
sanctions. And, you know, on the ground here, we've been speaking to people who said sanctions are not really something that they're that concerned
about, because Russia is already such a sanctioned country.
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But the tariff against the countries that buy Russian oil and gas. First and foremost, of course, China and also India, countries that have really
scaled up their purchases of Russian hydrocarbons. That is something where the Russians have said, look, that could have a major effect on their
economy.
Vladimir Putin came out a couple of months ago and said, look, there are new sanctions. There is no doubt that it will have an impact. But he does
believe that the Russian economy can stay afloat. And the other thing that the Russians have said is that while they're in talks with Ukraine, that
happen every once in a while, in Istanbul, and they say that they want a peace agreement, a broader peace agreement.
They also are saying that they're not budging on some sort of shorter-term ceasefire, which is, of course, what the Trump Administration wants. The
Russians are saying right now. They believe that they're making big gains in Ukraine. They've noted that Ukraine for them is extremely important.
So, it's very difficult to see at what stage they might back off from trying to achieve what Vladimir Putin calls his goals of the special
military operation, despite the fact that the Trump Administration has been dangling these sanctions that no doubt, could have huge repercussions, not
just for the Russians, but of course, also for the world economy as well.
If indeed, then the price of oil and gas on international markets, and of course, also at the pump in the United States, would significantly rise,
Christina.
MACFARLANE: Yeah. Well, we will continue to watch very closely to see where this goes. Fred Pleitgen for now, live from Moscow. Thanks, Fred. Israel's
full security cabinet will now reportedly meet Thursday to consider a full military takeover of Gaza. Tuesday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met
with several top security officials to discuss strategy.
Media reports in Israel say he'll push for a full conquest of the enclave, something the United Nations calls deeply alarming. U.S. President Donald
Trump weighed in on Tuesday, saying, whatever happens next militarily in Gaza is up to Israel. Ben Wedeman is following developments for us, joining
us now live from Rome.
So, Ben, what can we read into those comments from Donald Trump, ahead of this full security meeting that we thought was going to take place
yesterday, but is now taking place Thursday.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Christina, earlier this week, Israeli media was reporting that President Trump had
given a green light to Prime Minister Netanyahu's intention to so called reconquer Gaza. Well, if I mean that looks like that sounds like a green
light to me from the U.S. Administration.
And if the last 22 months are anything to go on, this means that the United States has given the green light for Israel to intensify its military
operations in Gaza, which inevitably will be accompanied by huge civilian casualties and even more destruction to Gaza, which of course, we've seen
in recent aerial video shot by journalists, is that much of Gaza has been reduced already to a lunar landscape.
Now, President Trump, in his statement, also stressed American efforts to get food to the people of Gaza, but the United States has basically stood
by as Israel has impeded the United Nations from doing what it has done for decades, which is provide the people of Gaza with the food they need to
survive. The United Nations earlier this week, said that they had 6000 trucks all loaded ready to go on the outskirts of Gaza, but Israel is not
letting them in.
Instead, the Israelis, along with the Americans, have been running this so called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which has just a handful of
distribution points, which are very difficult for people to actually get to the scenes we've that have taken place outside those areas just looks like
dog eat dog, the law of the jungle, where we know that at least 1000 people have been killed, shot, either by Israeli forces or by the GHF armed
personnel or others.
We don't know, because, of course, Israel is not allowing journalists into Gaza, and has not allowed them for the last 22 months. So, the whole stage
is set for an even darker chapter in this very dark war.
MACFARLANE: And as you say, Ben, rightly, the situation on the ground, while these talks, these negotiations continue, is getting worse by the
day, and we are hearing some alarming reports, actually, that a rare neurological disease is now spreading in Gaza. This being put out by the
Palestinian Ministry of Health, which is directly impacting, as you would expect, the very young and the very old.
WEDEMAN: And this is disease that affects the nervous, the peripheral nervous system, and it's largely the result of the horrific sanitary
hygiene conditions in Gaza, where more than 90 percent of the population has been made homeless, many of them multiple, multiple times they're
living in cramped, crowded, unsanitary conditions.
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They are suffering from a lack of water, a lack of food, a lack of decent food. So, it's inevitable that you're going to have diseases spreading now,
not long ago, I was speaking with our former colleague, Arwa Damon, who had managed to get into Gaza along with her, her NGO INARA.
And she was telling me that sort of the amount of skin diseases that have become common among especially children, is shocking, and that simply, you
know, under this, this is nothing less than a medieval siege that, of course, you're going to have the outbreak of all sorts of diseases, skin
diseases, respiratory diseases, gastrointestinal diseases.
And, of course, other diseases that are going to be showing up that are extremely rare. But under these circumstances, this is the ideal condition
for the spread of this sort of disease.
MACFARLANE: Ben Wedeman, appreciate it. Thank you. Turning now to the Jeffrey Epstein's saga, multiple sources tell CNN, top Trump Administration
officials will meet in the coming hours at Vice President J.D. Vance's residents to discuss their strategy on handling the case.
White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, Attorney General Pam Bondi, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche and FBI Director Kash Patel are all expected
to attend. Our sources say the need for the administration to craft a unified response about the late sex offenders' case is expected to be the
main focus of the meeting.
Well, CNN's Alayna Treene is following this story for us. Alayna, I know you helped break that story yesterday for CNN. What more do we know about
the convening of this meeting?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, it comes as well, Christina, as we know that, you know, we also broke news yesterday on how there are
tapes now of when Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche had flown to Florida to meet with Ghislaine Maxwell, of course, the Jeffrey Epstein associate
who had been convicted for sex trafficking and other sex crimes related to her relationship with Epstein.
And now that we know that they have this audio recording, I've also been told that the Justice Department has been going through and transcribing
that. They're digitizing it, they're redacting portions of it, and all of this. And this is partly what I believe they're going to be discussing this
evening at the vice president's residence, is when they are weighing, you know, whether or not to release these materials.
And also, you know, not just if, but when they would do so. And so, you know, I did talk with two Trump Administration officials who told me they
could release those materials as early as this week. And this is a huge departure from the way that we've seen the Trump Administration kind of
react to all of you know, the backlash we've seen to their handling of the Epstein case.
Thus far, a lot of the strategy had been, you know, let's try to move on. Let's try to change the subject. Clearly, that didn't work, and now we're
hearing that they may move forward in making a lot of that interview with Maxwell public. So that's, you know, the context of when this dinner is
happening.
We're also told that they're meeting to kind of make sure they're strategizing about a united front, because there have been some divisions,
particularly between the White House and the Justice Department, but also among people within the Justice Department of how the handling of all of
this has been going thus far.
There's also what I'm told kind of two camps and how people have been approaching this. You know, there are people who believe that the Epstein
story, the coverage of it and the focus on it has really died down from that peak point last month. But then there are people as well who believe
that the administration needs to be far more proactive in their strategy on this, and really need to lean into controlling the optics on this, and this
could be one way in which to do that.
Now we're also told that behind the scenes, there have been some internal discussions, though I am told that they are preliminary. It's very unclear
if this would happen. Of having Blanche again, the one who went and interviewed Maxwell, I was told for over 10 hours having him do a press
conference or a high-profile interview, possibly with the popular podcaster Joe Rogan.
Someone, of course, we've seen many different top Trump leaders join in the past, all to say this dinner is happening tonight. A lot of the key people
who are going to be there have been considered the leaders of this strategy thus far, and hopefully we can get more insight on what is discussed when
they convene later this evening.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, I'll be interesting to see how much more insight we might get. A lot at play. Alayna Treene from the White House, thank you. Now
still to come, on the heels of opening the opening of Alligator Alcatraz in Florida, the U.S. Department of Home Security has announced what they've
dubbed the speedway slammer. What we know about the new ICE detention facility in Indiana.
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MACFARLANE: Well, the controversial Florida immigration facility dubbed Alligator Alcatraz continues to spark backlash. The Trump Administration
has announced another new detention center in Indiana to House undocumented migrants, but it's not clear yet when the so-called Speedway Slammer will
open.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has the latest for us from Washington. So, Priscilla, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, says it will House,
quote, some of the worst criminals arrested by ICE. What more are we learning about the facility and when it might open?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, senior Trump officials have been in ongoing discussions with multiple states about replicating what we
have seen in Florida with that Alligator Alcatraz, that's the name that they gave a facility there a makeshift one in the deep Everglades.
Now they're trying to do much of the same in other states, which is to say, try to erect these facilities as quickly as they can. Now, in the case of
Indiana, you see images there they are trying to use a Miami Correctional Center. So unlike Florida, which quickly set up this soft sided facility,
this would be a structure and a site that already exists, and instead pivot it to immigrant detention.
The idea here is to expand detention space by 1000 beds using the funds that the administration recently received from Congress. Remember that
Immigration and Customs Enforcement now has a historic amount of funding, $45 billion for this initiative to deport immigrants, undocumented
immigrants in the United States.
We're still not clear on when this opens or how exactly it's going to function in other cases. For example, we've seen facilities that have been
dubbed to have the worst of the worst, only to later learn that some had criminal records others did not. Now this is how Homeland Security
Secretary, Kristi Noem, described it earlier this morning.
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KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: They don't belong in this country. They never should have been allowed in under the Biden
Administration, and so that's what this facility is in Indiana, and we're so grateful for the partnership that we're building with governors.
We've got several of these facilities that will come online soon, and it really is meeting a need that our country has to clean up our streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALVAREZ: Now we also received a statement from the Indiana Governor who said, quote, we are proud to work with President Trump and Secretary Noem
as they removed the worst of the worst with this innovative partnership going on to say, Indiana is taking a comprehensive and collaborative
approach to combating illegal immigration and will continue to lead the way among states.
Of course, immigrant detention is key when it comes to executing the president's immigration agenda, because even as they try to ramp up arrests
in the country. They need some place to put people before they are deported, a process that can take days, if not weeks.
So, this is where the administration is shifting its focus right now, which is expanding the detention space they have across the country currently or
before they were funded for around 41,500 beds.
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Well, now they're trying to get to 100,000 beds by the end of the year.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, it's a significant development. Priscilla, appreciate you bringing us the latest. Thank you. Now the world is marking 80 years since
the first use of a nuclear weapon on the Japanese City of Hiroshima, following a few days later by the bombing of nearby Nagasaki.
More than 110,000 people were killed instantly, with many more perishing from injuries and illnesses over the years. The bombings remain the only
time nuclear weapons have been used in conflict, but experts warn we are closer than ever to using them again. Hanako Montgomery is in Tokyo as
Japan marks this anniversary.
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a very somber day, not just for Japan, but for the entire world. Hiroshima is one of only two cities to
have ever been hit by an atomic bomb during wartime, and that single nuclear weapon killed tens of thousands of people, many of them civilians.
The bombs repercussions are still felt to this very day and forever restructured our global politics. Now earlier on Wednesday, Japan
commemorated this 80th anniversary of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima with a peace ceremony held in the city. We heard from local politicians, from
atomic bomb survivors, and also from the Japanese Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba. Here's part of Ishiba's speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIGERU ISHIBA, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER: The current security environment is becoming increasingly severe. However, it is precisely because of this
that we must make every effort to realize a world without nuclear war, and ultimately a world without nuclear weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MONTGOMERY: Now his warnings come at a tense time globally. Just this year, we've seen tensions rise between Israel and Iran, between India and
Pakistan. Now some experts fear that these conflicts could escalate to nuclear confrontation. Fortunately, that did not occur, but this 80th
anniversary serves as a very stark reminder of what's at stake here.
Should nuclear weapons ever be used again? The total devastation, the heartbreak, the loss of countless lives. Now for survivors of the atomic
bomb, this anniversary carries even more weight. Many of them have said that, because of their old age, this could be the last significant
anniversary that they commemorate.
But they hope that their message of peace, of an end to all wars, continues to be carried on through younger generations. Hanako Montgomery, CNN,
Tokyo.
MACFARLANE: Let's get you up to speed now on some of the other top stories on our radar right now. Rescue teams are searching for dozens of missing
people after this massive surge of flood water slammed the Himalayan village earlier today. At least four people are dead in this dramatic
video, you can see the wall of water here, mud and debris racing down the mountainside, destroying homes and businesses there in its path.
Australia's Great Barrier Reef suffered its biggest decline ever last year during the hottest summer on record. A new report released today shows it
lost between a quarter and a third of its hard cover coral across three main regions, in some of the worst hit areas, the reefs lost up to 70
percent of their living coral.
A rapid wildfire in Southern France has killed an elderly woman who reportedly did not want to leave her home. The fire has also injured two
civilians and seven firefighters. So far, 13,000 hectares have been scorched. Melissa Bell is across that story, and she is joining us live
from Paris. So, Melissa, tell us what's being done to tackle the blaze?
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a couple of 1000 firefighters trying to bring this blaze under control. I
think what's most remarkable about it, Christina, is just how quickly it spread. There had been these warnings on Monday about this particular
region of France.
You're looking at that region to the very south of France, just above the Spanish border -- it's called. They'd had these weather warnings because
bear in mind that all of that Mediterranean. All the perimeter around the Mediterranean, rather, is extremely dry, extremely hot.
And there had been these warnings because they were looking again at 104, 105-degree heat on Monday and Tuesday, and by Tuesday afternoon, that
wildfire began. Now, even now, authorities looking into whether it happened naturally or whether there may have been some kind of malign criminal
intention at the start of it.
But the point is that, given those conditions, given just how dry Southern France is, it moved extremely quickly. Add to that, of course, the extreme
windy conditions that have helped to propagate it. And it is those 13,000 hectares that have now gone up in smoke. And even now, the firefighters are
really struggling to bring it under control.
I think it's important to keep in mind the context of this, which is Europe wide. We've seen an extremely hot, extremely dry summer, and what we've
seen over the course of the last few years here in the European Union, Christina, is this early warning system where, at an EU level, they try and
keep track of these things.
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Already this year, what they're warning of is that the fires are not just spreading further, but that they're starting earlier. So, if you look at
the amount hectare wise that's been burnt already in wildfires this year in Europe, it's nearly 360,000 hectares. And that is not quite but nearly
double what we saw last year.
So, it is getting much harder, much worse, much more difficult, to bring these fires under control in those southern parts of Europe, as those hot
conditions driven, of course, by climate change, there is a fairly great unanimity across scientific circles here in Europe, that it is climate
change that is driving this.
And that is making Europe the fastest, the warmest continent on the planet, or rather, that is getting the warmest the fastest. It is getting hotter in
Europe at twice the rate than it is in the rest of the world. So, alarm bells have been ringing for some time on this continent.
This latest fire, of course, just a reminder the biggest so far in France, of how urgent it is, that these matters be considered, and that early
warning systems be put in place. You mentioned the one fatality so far, they fear there may be other one of the firefighters involved in that
rescue operation is believed to be in critical condition.
It is understood she refused to leave her home. It is many thousands of homes, of course, that have already had to be evacuated as they try and
bring this under control, Christina.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, Melissa, we appreciate the overview. It continues to be a deadly situation, as you say. Thank you. All right, coming up a sharp
downturn in U.S. job numbers, did more than anger President Trump, it has economists putting a scary scenario back on the table.
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MACFARLANE: Welcome back. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London, and you are watching "Connect the World". These are your headlines. U.S. Special Envoy
Steve Witkoff met with Russian President Vladimir Putin for three hours today, according to Russian state media.
They told the meeting was requested by the Kremlin following U.S. President Donald Trump's threats to impose new sanctions on Russia if it doesn't
reach a peace deal with Ukraine. Meantime, we're learning the President of the United Arab Emirates is expected to meet with the Russian president on
Thursday.
A statement released by the Kremlin says the pair will discuss bilateral cooperation and international issues, including the situation in the Middle
East. Sources say top Trump officials will get together in the coming hours to discuss their strategy and response in the Jeffrey Epstein case.
The administration is considering releasing the audio recording and transcript from last month's Justice Department interviews with Epstein's
partner and co-conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell.
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That is the bell opening on Wall Street. The start of a new trading day. It is Wednesday, August the 6th. We'll take a look at the opening numbers in
just a moment, but let's just say that investors are still looking for direction. Donald Trump's decision to fire the Head of the U.S. Bureau of
Labor Statistics was unprecedented and highly controversial.
He was furious at the jobs report released by the Bureau last Friday, which economists link to the president's policies. The abrupt dismissal launched
major concerns about eroding the credibility of U.S. economic data, but the numbers themselves are also causing alarm.
They're seen as a warning of a scenario had been set aside for months, a possible recession. Well CNN's Matt Egan has been tracking this closely for
us from New York. So Matt, what is it about the jobs report specifically that is setting off these recession alarm bells?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Christina, it does feel like the narrative around the economy has totally shifted, and not in a good way, right?
Earlier this summer, the economy looked resilient. The job market appeared to be unstoppable. But now we have a situation where inflation is heating
up, and for the first time in a long time, the job market does look weak, and so yes, that Friday, July job report, it was shocking, right?
Not just because that's the economic indicator that caused the president to fire the head of the agency that puts out the jobs report, but it's because
it showed that job growth has basically slowed to a crawl, right? Just 35,000 jobs being added per month. That is the slowest three-month pace
since mid-2020.
Of course, that was in the middle of a once in a century health crisis. And it's not just the fact that hiring is slowed. It's that there were these
massive negative revisions to May and June, right? The BLS said that the U.S. economy actually, the number of jobs that were added was actually
about a quarter of a million smaller than previously estimated.
And look, we've seen big revisions in the past. As the BLS gets new numbers in from businesses. They're going to update their stats here, but this is
the biggest two-month negative revision outside of a recession since 1968. So, every time we've seen a revision like this, the U.S. economy has been
in recession.
And it's not just about the job market. It's number of other indicators that are flashing yellow right now. You look at consumer spending is soft,
the PCE inflation reading is now at a four-month high, and that GDP report last week, it did signal a loss of momentum. So, look, the bottom line here
is it's way too early to say the U.S. economy is headed towards a recession.
You don't have to look that far back in history to see how sometimes recession warnings are premature. You look back three years ago, a lot of
people thought the U.S. economy was destined for a recession, and of course, that didn't happen. Even just back in April, investors were betting
that a recession was going to happen, and that didn't happen.
So, it's entirely possible that this is just a soft patch. But Christina, I do think that it's clear that the economic outlook and the risks around the
economy, it's all gotten a lot darker in just the past week or so.
MACFARLANE: Certainly, feels that way as good context. Matt Egan from New York, appreciate it, Matt, thanks.
EGAN: Thanks Christina.
MACFARLANE: Now ahead on "Connect the World", the U.S. Health Department announces a big cut in mRNA vaccine development funding. We talked to a
Nobel Prize winner who specializes in mRNA technology about the potential impact of that move. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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MACFARLANE: mRNA vaccines were hailed as medical breakthroughs in the fight against COVID. Now the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is
slashing a half billion dollars in government funding for mRNA vaccine development. 22 projects will be shelved with future vaccine efforts going
to other platforms like whole virus vaccines.
HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., says mRNA vaccines don't offer effective protection against upper respiratory infections like COVID and
flu. Medical evidence shows they do help prevent severe disease and death from COVID and show promise against influenza.
I'm joined now by Katalin Kariko. She is a biochemist and researcher who was jointly awarded the 2023 Nobel Peace Prize for Medicine, for work
involving mRNA technology, used in the first wave of COVID vaccines. Thank you so much for your time. I want to begin by asking someone who has
dedicated decades to advancing mRNA technology, and as I've just mentioned, has won a Nobel Prize for that contribution.
What is your reaction to the Trump Administration decision to cancel nearly half a billion dollars of mRNA funding today?
KATALIN KARIKO, 2023 NOBEL LAUREATE IN PHYSIOLOGY OR MEDICINE: Definitely, the global progress of vaccine development and global progress of science
suffered tremendously, and I am very disappointed. But you know what we can do?
And that's what I always ask myself, you know, when I was in Hungary, and then I moved to the United States, and then when I couldn't do things here,
then I moved another country, to Germany. So, you know, that's what I am thinking that what the scientists can do now.
MACFARLANE: I just want to ask you about the HHS Robert F. Kennedy Jr., saying that vaccines don't offer effective protection against upper
respiratory infections like COVID and flu. I mean, this is one of their core reasons for diverting funding away from this technology. What is your
response to that, and the efficacy of this vaccine in treating that?
KARIKO: Yes, so obviously, you know, when you are sick, you wouldn't ask advice from a lawyer like Kennedy. You know, you ask experts, your
physician for advice, and obviously he's misinformed and one do not understand that. You know, science is knowledge, which was, you know,
around the world, and we collected those with the observation, experimentation, measurements and all of this scientific evidence.
And you know, when you just reject and rely on misinformation, then you make a decision like he made, which is a good pause based on false
information. And so, I am thinking what we can do as a scientist. And you know, I already thought about forum from January that we have to educate
the public have out, you know, understanding that we are scientists is one of them, and we are dedicating all our life to advance science and what
science means. Yeah.
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MACFARLANE: You've just spoken about the fact that you had to move away from Hungary in order to continue your research in mRNA. I mean, the U.S.
Health Secretary we know is a long-time vaccine skeptic. This policy is not likely to change anytime soon. Therefore, what will your next moves be?
KARIKO: I mean, I am already 70 years old, so I don't mind. But you know, I can see that what the scientists can do is what I did. You know, when, you
know, move to another country, you know, in Europe or in Asia, in Japan, in China. You know where messenger RNA research is advancing, and in many of
the clinical trials are running there.
And so, what I have done, you know, 40 years ago, packing, leave all the loved one behind and move to here, to the United States. And when I
couldn't do here, you know what I wanted, I moved to Germany. So that's might be the solution. Those scientists who want to advance, you know, they
might move in another country.
And of course, you know, when science and knowledge here is under attack and funding is low, you know, it is really the next generation will suffer
the most, you know.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, and on that note, I mean, what, how does a move like this impact vaccine development, not just in the U.S., but globally?
KARIKO: Obviously, you know, the United States was a power in science and steel, but you know, we can see that other part of the world is advancing
and of course, it will hurt tremendously. And you know, when we have the next pandemic, you know we have to beg other countries to help us out,
because obviously the messenger RNA vaccine can be developed quickly and very effective.
And so that's what we will rely on to help out from China and from European countries when next time we have a pandemic.
MACFARLANE: I mean, the concern is that we will face another pandemic like COVID, sometime soon in our future, how do you think the U.S. health system
would react in its current state as and when that happens?
KARIKO: You know, I don't know what will happen, but obviously, you know, globally, we have other countries strong science is ongoing, and you know,
it will be strengthened by American scientists who will move to other countries, just like many of us, you know, packed in and left.
And you know, maybe that's how we could keep the science going, because that's what we as a scientist thinking. You know, we have just one life,
and then what we can do, and I can see these two things that advancing, then you have to move, and then we have to educate the American public
about what the scientists are doing and who we are as a scientist.
MACFARLANE: Well, given all you've achieved, it is a worrying and a sad development, but Katalin, we really appreciate you coming on and giving us
your thoughts on this today. Thank you.
KARIKO: Thank you for asking.
MACFARLANE: Well, that is it for this hour of "Connect the World". "World Sport" is up next, and I'll be back at the top of the hour with more news.
Stay with us.
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