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Former Epstein Prosecutor Testifies in U.S. House; Hamas Says Israel's Gaza City Incursion Ends Hope for Hostages' Return; Trump Amps Up Pressure on TV Networks Over Negative Coverage; Trump and Xi Jinping Hold Call About TikTok Sale; Intelligence Officials Split After Russia Flew Drones into Poland; Italy's Politically Divided Past Offers Cautionary Tale; Remembering Mahsa Amini Three Years Since Her Death; Texas Democrats Speak Out Against Redistricting; Architecture Awards Highlight Muslim Heritage. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired September 19, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:33]
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is CONNECT THE WORLD.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome to the second hour of the show from our Middle East programing headquarters. I'm Eleni Giokos in Abu
Dhabi, where the time is just after 6:00 p.m. in the evening.
Tonight, in the hot seat, at any moment, the former U.S. attorney who went easy on sex offender Jeffrey Epstein back in 2008 set to testify before a
U.S. House committee. Hamas has a new warning for Israel as the IDF ramps up its incursion into Gaza City. And President Trump threatens more U.S. TV
networks. Who could be next after Jimmy Kimmel's suspension?
Right now in the U.S. Capitol, what the House Oversight Committee chairman says will be a lengthy and very challenging hearing on the Jeffrey Epstein
case is getting underway. The committee will be questioning former U.S. attorney Alex Acosta, who later served as Labor secretary in President
Trump's first term. Acosta approved a controversial 2008 plea deal that at the time shielded Epstein and any alleged co-conspirators from further
prosecution tied to his sex crimes.
Today's hearing follows this week's testimony by the FBI director, who implied that plea deal limited the scope of the federal investigation into
Epstein.
Annie Grayer is with me this hour from Capitol Hill.
Annie, so this is a closed door hearing, but what do you expect we'll learn today?
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, we just learned that Acosta arrived for this closed door interview. He did not answer questions, but we
expect Republicans and Democrats to have a lot of questions for Acosta. This is a much anticipated interview as part of Congress's investigation
into Epstein matter.
Now, Acosta was the U.S. attorney back in 2008 who made a plea deal with Epstein that prevented the case from going to federal trial. And at the
time, Epstein only served 13 months in prison. But in 2019, when federal charges were brought against Epstein and he was arrested and charged for
participating in a sex trafficking ring, Acosta's role back in 2008 came under renewed scrutiny.
Now at the time in 2019, Acosta was serving as Trump's Labor secretary in his first term and ended up resigning because of the controversy
surrounding him. So Acosta is now back in the spotlight and in the hot seat today, as both Republican and Democratic lawmakers ask questions as part of
their ongoing investigation into Epstein matter. They have subpoenaed the Department of Justice. They have subpoenaed Epstein's estate. They are
working with the Treasury Department to get bank records.
Both Republicans and Democrats are trying to get as much information around this case as possible. But there is still this demand for the Department of
Justice to release all of the Epstein files. There is still questions about what is being held by Trump's Department of Justice and if there is a so-
called list of potential co-conspirators with Epstein, that is the big question that's of looming over this investigation. We know that Democrats
and Republicans are going to be pressing Acosta on that matter today.
GIOKOS: So I want to talk about this so-called sweetheart deal. We know it shielded Epstein from federal charges, but he also had a pretty sweetheart
deal in state prison. Tell me a little bit more about that.
GRAYER: Right. So this is what is big part of what's going to be discussed today is all of the ways in which Epstein was not charged to the fullest
extent now that we know his crimes were as extreme as they were. So that is the question sort of looming over this entire investigation is why, through
various points of Epstein being investigated, was not the furthest, most extreme charges pursued.
And that's led even Republicans to question was there some sort of cover- up? What are high administration officials hiding? This is why Republicans and Democrats have subpoenaed former attorneys general and anyone who was
even remotely mentioned in any of the Epstein files, because this is the question they want to get to the bottom to.
GIOKOS: All right. Annie Grayer, thank you so much for that update.
Now to the war in Gaza and the dire warning Hamas is giving to Israel about the fate of the hostages remaining in the enclave. The Hamas military wing
says Israel's ground offensive into Gaza City ends any chance of getting those hostages back, dead or alive.
[10:05:07]
The incursion started this week and is facing intense criticism from world leaders and humanitarian groups. French President Emmanuel Macron calls it
counterproductive. Here's more of what he had to say in an interview with Israeli television.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Our top priority remains the release of all hostages. We recognize the right of Israel to defend itself, but when
Israel started to have a sort of permanent war in Gaza, we expressed disagreement very respectfully, but very clearly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: All right. Jeremy Diamond is with us this hour.
Jeremy, this Hamas warning about the hostages' fate must be extremely disturbing to their families, friends and everyone who wants them home.
What's the reaction been?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Disturbing in part because it confirms many of the fears that these families have had and that they've
been expressing quite loudly over the course of, you know, almost every single day, as we have seen constant protests calling on the Israeli
government to call off this Gaza City offensive and end the war, and instead strike a deal with Hamas that would secure the release of those
Israeli hostages still held there.
But instead, the Israeli government very much moving forward with this planned invasion of Gaza City. We have been watching as Israeli ground
forces have been creeping closer to Gaza City's center, although for now they largely remain in the kind of outer neighborhoods of Gaza City.
But what Hamas is saying here and what is certainly the kind of most dire threat or warning that they have issued thus far about the hostages is that
they plan to and that they already have, in fact, spread out the hostages who are being held in Gaza City across various neighborhoods, effectively
placing these hostages as human shields or at a minimum, as potential deterrence for the Israeli military as they begin advancing throughout this
city. And what Hamas is saying here is that it is the Israeli prime minister that should bear the responsibility if these hostages are killed
in this Israeli military offensive.
Now, the Israeli military, for its part, has responded saying that the hostages are always, quote, "before our eyes," and that they will do
everything they can to avoid harming them, working closely with Israeli intelligence to advance cautiously but decisively, while also keeping in
mind that the hostages may be in the areas that they are advancing on.
But we know that that is far from a guarantee. There have been instances, of course, where Israeli military actions have directly led to the deaths
of hostages being held in Gaza, and that is exactly what so many of these families are terrified about, with some of them even accusing the Israeli
prime minister of effectively signing their loved ones' death certificates by choosing to move forward with this Gaza City offensive.
Now, in terms of the civilian population of Palestinians in Gaza City, the Israeli military now estimating that some 450,000 people have fled the
city, but hundreds of thousands more still very much remain, many of them unable to leave due to a lack of financial means or physical ability to
actually walk the, you know, seven hours long journey that it would take to get to a safer area in Southern Gaza.
And just the dire humanitarian situation that accompanies all of this is front of mind for so many of those nonprofit organizations operating on the
ground that have been sounding the alarm about the impact that this Israeli military invasion of Gaza City will have, not just there, but on the -- but
on the entirety of the Gaza Strip.
GIOKOS: Yes. And aid organizations are saying the displacement of Palestinians from Gaza City is going to effectively exacerbate the big
issue on the -- on the famine front, which, of course, has been top of mind. You know, when I -- when we look at how the ceasefire hostage
negotiations where effectively, completely killed by the fact that Israel struck Hamas inside Qatar, many people are asking the question on whether
we'd be able to see talks resuming at any point.
You've got the warning from Hamas about the hostages right now. Youve got the IDF incursion into Gaza City. Is there any appetite right now, would
you say, from the Israeli side to engage in negotiation?
DIAMOND: It's very difficult to say. I mean, look, they are not talking at the moment, but we know, of course, that the secretary of state was just
here. Marco Rubio was just here meeting with the Israeli prime minister, very much talking about ways to get hostage -- the hostage negotiations
back on track, but at the same time, giving the U.S.'s kind of full backing for this Israeli invasion of Gaza City.
[10:10:11]
And so it seems like the Israeli prime minister is really being given carte blanche at the moment. I think the only question that remains is whether
this Israeli invasion of Gaza City, you know, changes how Hamas is approaching this. And if it does, whether that is enough for the Israeli
prime minister to consider a new ceasefire deal here rather than moving forward with this invasion of Gaza City, which, again, I think it's
important to note, is progressing quite slowly and deliberately, which perhaps also gives a window of opportunity, a short window, but a window of
opportunity nonetheless for things to change on the diplomatic front. But I wouldn't hold your breath unfortunately.
GIOKOS: Yes. All right, Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for staying on top of this for us.
Now a source tells CNN ABC's parent company, Disney, is hopeful that Jimmy Kimmel's late-night show can be revived. But right now, the dust is still
settling after the controversial decision to shelve the program. Meantime, President Trump is suggesting all broadcast networks should be under
scrutiny for potential bias against him with the penalty of losing their broadcast license.
Here's what "The Late Show's" Stephen Colbert had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, 'THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": It is so bizarre to see an American president weighing in so vehemently on TV shows.
It reminds me of when Reagan said this.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT: Mr. Gorbachev, cancel "The Golden Girls."
COLBERT: This whole thing, this whole thing is the latest and boldest action in a long campaign against media critics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter joins us now with more,
Kimmel's show shelved indefinitely. But we're hearing it could come back. So what is the latest on this? What are you hearing?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Right. And we don't know when that could happen. There were discussions yesterday between Kimmel and Disney
executives. There was no apparent resolution. Those conversations may continue today. But meanwhile, the show remains off the air. It's been
replaced by a game show. Reruns of the game show "Celebrity Family Feud."
And I think that's a symbol of what's going on here. Someone like President Trump, he would rather have a generic and, you know, mild game show,
something that no one is going to be offended by, no one is going to be critical of him on that. You know, he'd rather have that kind of programing
on broadcast television versus a liberal late-night host who is staunchly critical of the president and his administration.
Trump clearly trying to use his power to jawbone, to pressure media companies into capitulation. And figures like Stephen Colbert are speaking
out against that. You know, you just played that clip of Colbert, other late-night show hosts also showing solidarity with Kimmel. Colbert notably
said, with an autocrat, you cannot give an inch. But Disney, the parent of ABC, has given more than an inch at this point.
And President Trump wants more. Here's a bit of what he said on Air Force One on the way back from the U.K. threatening station licenses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I read someplace that the networks were 97 percent against me. Again, 97 percent negative. And
yet I won it easily, won all seven swing states popular, but won everything. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their
license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Carr.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STELTER: This is the same sort of rhetoric Trump engaged in when he was running for reelection. He would repeatedly threaten the owners of TV
stations over coverage and content he didn't like. It's even more telling and notable now that he is saying it as the president, because he oversees
the FCC and his FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, is a close ally. But the reality here is that it's very difficult to actually repeal or revoke a TV
station license in the U.S.
It hasn't happened in decades. As public interest lawyer Andrew Jay Schwartzman said to me overnight, taking away a broadcast license has so
many legal obstacles and takes so long that the FCC doesn't even try, or at least prior FCCs have not tried. Now, Trump and Carr might try, but it
would be a year's long legal battle. So the real issue here is not that Trump could turn off a TV station transmitter. You know, it is the threat.
It is the idea of self-censorship. He wants to bully media companies into submission. And that's why so many Kimmel fans are angry at ABC right now.
They believe that ABC has been bullied, has capitulated. We're expecting further protests outside Disney offices in New York and Burbank,
California, later today.
GIOKOS: Yes, I mean, it's really fascinating because the pressure has definitely increased dramatically. And you were saying it's really
difficult to revoke a license. It's not something that can be easily done, but the pressure is resulting in perhaps firings, perhaps taking legal
action, which we see the Trump administration doing as well.
[10:15:03]
And I just wonder, you know, how this is all going to end because not only -- not only the world is watching, but also domestically in America, what
it means for free speech, ultimately in America.
STELTER: Yes, there are so many entertainers, so many comedians, but also people in related fields who are watching this Kimmel case and they are
worrying about their own careers We have seen some decide to stand up more tall -- more taller than ever before. You know, some people choosing to
speak out more loudly. I would cite that old protest line or that protest sign saying, you either use your rights, or you lose your rights. But
within a big company like Disney, there is a chilling effect. On ABC's daytime talk show "The View," the host of "The View" didn't talk about
Kimmel yesterday, and a lot of viewers wondered if that was an example of this chilling effect in action.
So very much an ongoing dialogue in the U.S. about whether free speech rights are being curtailed, not because of actual government action that
can be challenged in courts, but because of what's often called jawboning. Trump and his FCC chairman using their public bully pulpit in order to
pressure media companies again into submission. We've seen this several times in the past months when Trump files lawsuits against news outlets.
When he talks about the so-called fake news, when he's talking about real stories.
But this episode with Kimmel is more dramatic because there's a pretty clear fact pattern. The FCC chairman criticizes ABC one minute, the network
pulls the show the next minute. This has resonated, I think, with Americans in a way that most stories about Trump's retribution campaign have not. And
it remains to be seen what the outcomes will be. Even some Trump friendly podcasters, though, have been speaking out against Trump's behavior in this
case, and I find that telling.
GIOKOS: Yes, it's definitely one that's going to be debated for quite some time.
Brian Stelter, good to have you on the show. Thank you so much.
STELTER: Thanks.
GIOKOS: Well, U.S. president has been speaking to Chinese leader Xi Jinping today. White House officials tell us that the call began around two hours
ago. The pair are expected to finalize an agreement on TikTok that would see most of its U.S. assets sold to American investors.
Now, it's unclear exactly who those investors are, but Mr. Trump spoke about the deal briefly on Thursday. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The people that are investing in are among the greatest investors in the world, the biggest, the richest, and they'll do a great job. And we're
doing it in conjunction with China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Bureau chief Steven Jiang joins us now live with more details.
Steven, have you heard anything more about this call and any sort of news on the framework? What exactly the fate of TikTok assets in America are
going to look like down the line?
STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, Eleni, the Chinese have not said much other than confirming the start of the phone call as you
mentioned earlier. Now, this, of course, is going to take some time, as we have seen in their previous phone calls, especially when translation is
involved. But of course we have some idea in terms of the topics and themes they'll touch on. TikTok as you mentioned is a big one because out of the
most recent trade talks between the two governments in Madrid, that, the TikTok issue, seems to be the only tangible agreement between the two
sides, with very little progress being made elsewhere.
Now, on TikTok, of course, for a long time the Chinese have been very hard line about its refusal to a so-called forced sale from their perspective,
even describing this as a daylight robbery by the U.S. accusing Washington of politicizing national security and data security issues. But now it
seems they are turning this issue of principle into a matter that could be negotiated, because I think from their perspective, having TikTok's U.S.
operations shut down permanently, they really don't gain much from it.
If anything, they have seen the political importance for Trump of TikTok operating domestically given how popular it is for -- among American young
people, including many who voted for Trump during the last election cycle. So they are really seizing upon this opportunity to turn this into their
leverage. So, as you may have heard, a lot of expectation in terms of the new U.S. entity being spun off from the Chinese parent company ByteDance,
and this new U.S. entity being majority controlled, 80 percent controlled by U.S. investors, with ByteDance retaining 20 percent of control.
But the key here, of course, is also ByteDance's openness to licensing its all-powerful A.I. algorithm to this new U.S. entity because that algorithm,
of course, is what really makes TikTok tick as many U.S. rivals, as you know, have been trying for years to emulate its success to no avail. But
this is really what people are expecting. And in a way, this is removing one major roadblock in this very contentious relationship, especially when
it comes to bilateral trade relations.
Now, Trump's whole rationale of launching this tariff and trade war against China is this trade imbalance so there's so much more to talk about.
[10:20:08]
But given the -- how far apart the two sides remain on many issues, most analysts think it's going to be very difficult to see a comprehensive deal
being reached anytime soon. What's more likely to come out of this phone call or any, you know, future talks in the near future is these so-called
ad hoc deliverables. The Chinese may be willing to buy -- to buy more U.S. soybeans or Boeing jets and the U.S. maybe agreeing to suspend more export
controls targeting China.
But of course Washington has its priorities as well, especially when it comes to these all critical rare earth minerals and magnets that American
companies so desperately need. But Chinese have been really slow rolling the resumption of their export licenses.
So there are a lot to be worked out, Eleni. The one thing everybody is also looking for out of this phone call is any clarity on a potential summit
between the two leaders because Trump has been saying for quite some time he's more than -- he's very willing to and happy to meet Xi Jinping. And
there might be some potential openings, as we know, there could be meeting on the sidelines of the upcoming APEC Summit in South Korea or in the form
of a Trump visit to China.
So that's going to be something I think a lot of people will be paying a lot of attention to. And the Chinese, if anything, are very good at one
thing, as you know, Eleni, that is putting out this kind of pomp and ceremony that Trump definitely relishes on -- Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yes, absolutely. Well, Steven Jiang, great to have you with us. Thank you so much.
And still to come, did Russia intentionally fly drones into NATO territory in Poland, or was it simply an accident? Why Western intelligence officials
still aren't sure. That's just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: It's been weeks since NATO fighter jets scrambled to shoot down multiple Russian drones that had crossed into the alliance's airspace in
Poland. U.S. and Western intelligence officials are still split on whether the drones had entered Poland deliberately or by accident.
CNN's Katie Bo Lillis reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: U.S. and Western intelligence officials are still really unable to reach a consensus judgment on whether or not
that really unprecedented incursion was intentional, perhaps an effort by Russia to try to test or probe Western air defenses, or whether it was an
accidental deviation caused by Ukrainian electronic warfare defenses sort of rerouting these drones. I talked to one senior U.S. Military official
who said to me, put the odds at 50-50 either way.
So why is this so hard to reach a consensus judgment on? Part of it is that it's very difficult for Western intelligence agencies to collect
information from inside of Russia. So they're really relying on what they can learn from the technical specifications of the drones that they were
able to shoot down and recover, as well as what they can learn from the flight pattern that these drones took while they were in Polish airspace.
[10:25:02]
The problem is that the information that they're learning from those methods really could be interpreted either way. We have heard from, for
example, some Ukrainian officials who say that, look, it's not unusual to see one Z's or two Z's of Russian drones go off course when they are
disrupted by Ukrainian jamming. But we've never seen a deviation of this size, 19 drones.
Now, look, we also talked to some Western intelligence officials who said, well, these drones are actually programmed in mass, right, and so in an
attack of this size where you had hundreds of drones in the air at a time, it's not illogical that if 20 of them ran into the same Ukrainian
electronic warfare defenses, that 20 of them might be diverted into Polish airspace.
And indeed, one senior Western intelligence official who we spoke to said that these drones in Polish airspace, the way they were flying, it looks
like they were trying to reacquire a GPS signal. But still lots of spirited debate over this. The Polish prime minister saying there's no way this was
a mistake. U.S. President Donald Trump saying it looks like it might have been a mistake. So officials really divided on this point.
But what we do hear from both U.S. and Western officials is whether or not this was an intentional incursion or whether or not it was accidental, it
still suggests a worrying increased appetite for risk on the Kremlin's part, right. Even if this incursion was accidental, it suggests that
Russia, either through shoddy targeting or something else, is more willing to take the risk that some of its actions might be misinterpreted by the
West and might potentially lead to direct conflict between Russia and NATO.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: All right. All right. This coming just in to CNN. The Estonian government says that three Russian MiG-31 fighter jets violated Estonian
airspace for 12 minutes. We're getting this news in from the Estonian government. The three Russian MiG-31 fighter jets violated its airspace for
12 minutes.
We'll bring you more on that story as it happens.
Now in the U.S., Charlie Kirk's widow has been named the new chief executive officer of Turning Point USA. Erika Kirk takes over the
organization that her late husband co-founded and led until his assassination last week. The group's board announced the move in a post on
X. It said Charlie Kirk had, in prior talks, made known that, quote, "This is what he wanted in the event of his death." Erika Kirk said that she was
committed to continuing his work and legacy.
The killing of American conservative activist Charlie Kirk has exposed deep political divisions within the country. As CNN's Ben Wedeman reports,
Italy's own recent past, marked by political violence, terrorism and social unrest, is offering a cautionary tale for the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK LEFF, FORMER CNN CORRESPONDENT: And so far, there have been anonymous telephone calls claiming responsibility by both the far-left Red Brigades
and the far-right Armed Revolutionary Nuclei.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They were known as the Anni di Piombo, Italy's Years of Lead. From the late 1960s
until the 1980s, the country was convulsed by bombings, assassinations, kidnappings and street clashes, as extremist factions at opposite ends of
the political spectrum replaced ballots with bullets.
In the aftermath of the assassination of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk, Italy's Years of Lead offer a cautionary tale to a United States
increasingly torn apart by political differences.
(Voice-over): Victor Simpson spent four decades covering Italy for the Associated Press.
VICTOR SIMPSON, FORMER ROME CORRESPONDENT, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Yes, there was a very serious rivalry going on between leftist and rightist terrorists and
who could cause the most damage. But, you know, Italians are actually a very wise people, I always thought, and they kept their heads, the
politicians kept their heads.
WEDEMAN: In 1978, the far-left Red Brigades kidnaped then murdered five- time former prime minister Aldo Moro. Two years later, far-right extremists with the Revolutionary Armed Nuclei planted a bomb in Bologna's train
station, killing more than 80 people.
Yet through it all, the leaders of the mainstream parties rejected violence. The center held, says Loyola University's Claudio Lodici,
speaking next to the spot where Aldo Moro's body was found in the trunk of a car.
CLAUDIO LODICI, LOYOLA UNIVERSITY: The center or the parties that were in office, including the Communist Party, stood their ground. There was an
across the board consensus that terrorism had to be defeated. It was across the board.
WEDEMAN: A consensus that saved Italy from chaos. The politicians knew united we stand, divided we all fall.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[10:30:07]
GIOKOS: Still ahead, this week marks three years since -- pardon me -- the death of Mahsa Amini. I'll be speaking to the author of a new book about
how her death sparked an uprising in Iran. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Eleni Giokos. Here are your headlines.
This hour on Capitol Hill former Trump labor secretary Alex Acosta is testifying before a U.S. House committee on the Jeffrey Epstein case.
Acosta was a U.S. attorney when he oversaw Epstein's 2008 controversial plea deal in Florida that at time shielded Epstein from federal prosecution
on prostitution charges.
The Hamas military wing says Israel's ground incursion into Gaza City ends any hope of the remaining hostages getting out of Gaza dead or alive. Its
warning coming just days after Israel's military announced the start of the Gaza City offensive, which it says is to root out and defeat Hamas
militants remaining there.
A source tells CNN that Disney is hopeful there is a path to bringing Jimmy Kimmel's show back to ABC, but it is unclear when that may happen.
Executives shelved the late-night show indefinitely over comments Kimmel made on air Monday referencing Charlie Kirk's suspected killer.
The pictures you're looking at come from Iran back in 2022. Women bravely taking off their hijabs in defiance of the Iranian regime. The protest
followed the death of Mahsa Amini in the custody of Iran's morality police. The 22-year-old had been detained for not wearing her scarf properly. This
week marks three years since her death.
My next guest is the co-author of new book. "For the Sun After Long Nights" is the story of Iran's woman-led uprising. Nilo Tabrizy joins us now live
from New York.
Nilo, great to have you with us. Thank you so much for taking the time. I want you to give me a sense of how this grew into a movement that it did. I
mean, it's, you know, incredible to think that it was three years ago. And many people say a lot has changed in Iran. But her death sparked so much
more than protest action. And many say it sparked a social revolution.
NILO TABRIZY, VISUAL FORENSICS REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Absolutely. I think one of the key things is that so many people could see themselves in
Mahsa Amini. It's so -- it's such a daily part of life for women to get harassed by the morality police.
[10:35:04]
So then when the image of her that went viral of her laying in a hospital bed unconscious, with her face swollen, her ears bloody after in custody of
the morality police, once that went online it infuriated the public and protests started almost immediately from outside the hospital where she
eventually succumbed to her injuries and she died. And it just grew all over the country. It was the Islamic Republic's largest and most widespread
protest movement in its history.
GIOKOS: Yes, I mean, women were so brave in defiance of the rules that had been, you know, holding them back for so long. And I want to read an
excerpt from your book for the audience. And you write this, "Even the most beautiful nonviolent means of expression are unsafe in Iran. Songs,
reporting and the strengthening of community under unlikely circumstances threaten the regime's existence. For each Hajipour who is silenced, new
words, verses and slogans will rise, finding their ways into our bodies as we shout them into existence at a protest or write them online to live
forever."
You are referencing here the musician Shervin Hajipour, who was jailed for a song about the uprising. Talk to us more about that. And I just wonder,
you know, since her death over the last three years, what has fundamentally changed in Iran?
TABRIZY: Yes. So for Shervin Hajipour, his song is really beautiful. So it became this protest anthem, and it came to be because people went on
Twitter, on X, Iranians went and expressed themselves to share with the world why they were on the streets, for dancing in the streets, for kissing
loved ones, for women, life, freedom. And Shervin took those sentiments from the Iranian people and strung them together in a really moving song.
The song was viewed, it went viral, you know, it was viewed millions of times. It won a Grammy for social change. It really spread all over the
world. And almost immediately he was detained and imprisoned. And so even something that seems innocuous, right, all he's doing is representing in
such a peaceful, nonviolent way, the hopes of Iranian people, he was immediately suppressed for that.
And the legacy of the Women Life Freedom Movement continues. Every time that we see a woman outside in Iran without hijab, I mean, that shows the
success of the movement. It's become so common now seeing videos and images that my friends send me from Tehran, seeing women without their
headscarves. I mean, it shows that it continues because the hijab laws haven't changed, but that defiance continues.
And it's not just women wearing it around their shoulders, but you see women in cafes without a hijab, not even, you know, on their person. And
that, again, that shows this incredible defiance and bravery from the Iranian people.
GIOKOS: I want to talk about Iran's actual laws and how they continue to discriminate against women in particular. What we saw coming through in
December 2024. It's now commonly called the Chastity and Hijab Law. That has been put on pause by President Masoud Pezeshkian. He's been viewed as a
moderate, and I wonder what the sentiment is. Is there a fear of women, of these draconian laws returning and resurfacing? What is the sense? What is
the atmosphere like?
TABRIZY: Right. So this bill that you talk about is incredibly important. It was passed about a year after Mahsa Amini was killed. It was passed with
overwhelming support in the parliament. So just goes to show that when Iranian people stood up and Iranian women particularly stood up, its
parliament cracked down in a much more forceful way. But as you said, rightly so, these laws never went into effect. Perhaps because the Islamic
Republic senses that, you know, there is a tinderbox in that sense, that this movement and this rage against these restrictions continues.
And so -- but until, you know, the mandatory hijab and these laws remain in place, women are not safe. Again, it is amazing. And it's really moving to
see women without hijab increasingly in in Tehran specifically. But it's -- it comes at a great risk. It just, you know, it's still the law of the land
to wear it in a mandatory way. So women who are refusing to do so, they're still doing an act of protest every day that they could be harassed for.
GIOKOS: All right. Nilo Tabrizy, thank you so much for joining us today. And your book, "For the Sun After Long Nights," something I'll definitely
be getting my hands on. So thank you so much for sharing the stories of Mahsa Amini three years on.
All right. Still to come, how Texas Democrats are fighting redistricting and trying to save their voting power. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:41:50]
GIOKOS: The U.S. Federal Trade Commission and seven states are suing Ticketmaster and its parent company, Live Nation, accusing them of failing
to stamp out price gouging by ticket resellers. The commission also said the company is misleading customers and making big profits from ticket
scalpers.
The FTC chairman said it should not cost an arm and a leg to take the family to a baseball game. Resale ticket prices went off the rails during
Taylor Swift's Eras Tour, with some going for tens of thousands of dollars on resale sites.
Meanwhile, moves by Texas Republicans to redraw the state's congressional map have Democrats crying foul. They worry their voices are being silenced
in the push to create more House seats for the GOP.
CNN's John King reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANNY RIZO, TEXAS VOTER: There's got to be some sort of a change.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Manny Rizo is a Democrat in Texas on the losing side -- again.
RIZO: Intentional gerrymandering in order to control the vote, and are we really represented by the proper representative? I think it's just a way so
they can keep controlling power and continue on with the next two years as to what they're doing now.
KING: Rizo maintains private jets. His office a hangar at this private airport in Pflugerville about 15 miles south of Austin. Business is good.
RIZO: This airplane came in for some big inspections. We found a lot of issues but that's what we do. That's what the pay us to do is to find
issues on the ground rather than they find them in the air.
KING: Most clients are longtime customers. Of late a few tough conversations about the bill when critical parts come from Mexico or
Canada.
RIZO: Tariffs. It costs more money at the same business. It costs more money --
KING: But --
RIZO: To buy parts.
KING: To buy parts.
RIZO: To buy parts.
KING (voice-over): The local congressman for this airport is a Democrat like Rizo. He listens if Rizo has concerns about how Washington impacts his
business. Listens, too, on the issue that is now Rizo's passion, gun violence. His 9-year-old niece Jackie was among the students killed in
Uvalde.
RIZO: That's where it's really important, you know, to us and our family. You know, we, our values, our morals, and --
KING: Sadness every time he thinks of his niece. Anger every time he thinks about a new Texas map that moves Pflugerville and other Austin suburbs.
RIZO: Especially during a change in the midterms, you know. I don't agree with that.
KING: This is Kyle, Texas, about 20 miles down Interstate 35 south of Austin. As of today, this is the 35th Congressional District, one of two
solidly blue seats in the Austin area. But when Texans vote in next year's midterm elections the map will be dramatically different.
The 35th moves south, east of San Antonio to Republican country. The 37th made more compact right there in Austin. The result? Two Democratic
districts become one and tens of thousands of Texans now represented by Democrats in Congress dispersed into more rural and Republican districts.
(Voice-over): Gretchen Pruett is one of those Democrats and this winery just outside of Kyle is one of her favorite places.
[10:45:06]
Pruett moved to Texas 30 years ago, likes her wine red and her politics blue.
GRETCHEN PRUETT, TEXAS VOTER: I wanted to live near Austin, and I was looking for a place that would be a community that I would feel at home in.
KING: The new map puts Pruett in a district represented by a Republican. That isn't her only objection.
PRUETT: It's also a district that is heavily farming and industrial, and that is not the same kind of industry and ecosystem that we're in here in
the Austin suburbs.
KING: Pruett was a library director who first became politically active fighting Texas Republicans trying to ban books. Now she's embracing a new
cause, trying to elect a Democrat in a district drawn to heavily favor a Republican.
PRUETT: It has activated me and my family. So we will be helping to register voters. We will be helping to get out the vote. When I was in
public service in the government I could not speak out, but I am now retired and unmuzzled and so I have a voice and I'm going to use it.
KING: Pruett has studied the new lines, and she knows the math, but she promises to fight on if a Republican wins next year.
PRUETT: I just believe that conversation and compromise and seeing all sides of the issue and then making a decision is the best possible form of
government. And we're silencing those voices. We're marginalizing them and my voice is marginalized as well.
KING: And that's what you think they're doing. They're just dispersing Democrats in a way that silences them.
PRUETT: I do believe that, yes. The maps bear it out.
KING (voice-over): Trump's lead role in the remapping makes it sting Democrats like Pruett even more. It is a bold powerplay and Texas, by far,
the biggest player. But it might still not be enough to keep the House in Republican hands.
John King, CNN, Kyle, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS: Coming up, promoting Muslim heritage, bringing communities together, and rebuilding for the future. We look at some of the projects
honored by the Aga Khan Architecture Awards.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GIOKOS: Scientists in Boston gathered Thursday to hear about a monumental discovery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SVANTE PAABO, NOBEL LAUREATE AND SWEDISH GENETICIST: We made an important discovery. Drunken Germans usually pronounce Dutch better than sober
Germans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: That's brilliant. Thats one of the many bizarre discoveries celebrated at the 35th Annual Ig Nobel Prize ceremony. Now it's a whimsical
-- whimsical, rather, counterpart to the Nobel Prizes, where scientists celebrate things like breakthroughs in understanding the physics of pasta
sauce. The presentations also range from the playful to the bizarre.
[10:50:01]
Among this year's winners was the study about which pizzas a certain kind of lizard eats. Very important information. The master of ceremonies said
that the purpose of the awards is to make you laugh and then make you think. Winners get an old 10 trillion Zimbabwean dollar banknote. This is
brilliant. About $0.40. It's fantastic. I've got to watch the whole show.
All right, "Lady Bugs of the Sea" is the winner of the Ocean Photographer of the Year Award competition. Organizers say this image shows two tiny
amphipods resting on a piece of coral. Now, it was chosen from a field of more than 15,000 submitted by photographers from all over the world. I'm
hearing it's here. It is so cute. Nine category winners were also selected.
This image took the prize for the adventure category. It shows a personal water craft navigating the massive waves off the coast of Portugal. And the
prize for the Human Connection Award went to this photo of a group of people trying to save a stranded humpback whale.
All right. For today's "Parting Shots," if you didn't get enough good images, the Aga Khan Award for Architecture has honored several projects
that highlight and preserve Muslim heritage around the world. I spoke with some of the winning architects about how their projects bring communities
together, even in the most troubled of places. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LESLEY LOKKO, STEERING COMMITTEE MEMBER, AGA KHAN AWARD FOR ARCHITECTURE: Architecture is made up of a tapestry of things. Not just technology, not
just the resources, but fundamentally, it's about imagination. And everybody has access to imagination.
GIOKOS (voice-over): In areas filled with tensions, the Aga Khan Award is celebrating the creation of long lasting architecture that will withstand
conflicts and preserve the historical value of Muslim culture.
LOKKO: One really important aspect of architecture is that it's also a vessel of memory. I mean, it's not just about things that are in the
present, but it's about bringing the past into the present and into the future. So, you know, in cases of conflict and, you know, destruction and
decimation, architecture is the one discipline that has the power to bring back what is lost.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Architects have a great responsibility and an opportunity to use their creativity.
GIOKOS: Every three years, the award highlights projects that promote historical preservation and the use of local resources and technology in
innovative ways. Among this year's honorees are two Iranian architects.
MOHAMMED KHAVARIAN, FOUNDER, KA ARCHITECTURE STUDIO, AGA KHAN AWARD RECIPIENT: Geography of Hormuz, colorful topography, which is called
Rainbow Island, and also resource, human resources. People of Hormuz got agency in the design process, and in 10 years, instead of a hasty upside
down intervention, we did a bottom up project which worked with local community and local community got empowered, and also the colors got agency
in the project.
GIOKOS: You turned a transit point into a true public space, a social hub that not only welcomes vendors, diverse communities and also Afghan
immigrants. How did you ensure the space was not only accessible, but also ensuring that it's welcoming to all that pass through?
MOHAMADREZA GHODOUSI, CEO, ZAV ARCHITECTS, AGA KHAN AWARD RECIPIENT: These spaces is a democratic spaces. Then everybody can go in the 24 hours it's
open. The seating area in this project have a different function in the times. For example, the peddlers in the front of the project, in the
courtyard of the project, and the inside the user for standing and the moment time and for rest, for the sitting, for the events and for the play
music and the sell anything. It's gathering into the project.
GIOKOS (voice-over): And the Palestinian activist and architect Yousef Anastas, who co-created the Wonder Cabinets in Bethlehem in the occupied
West Bank. This is a creative hub where local artists and contractors come together to innovate and learn.
YOUSEF ANASTAS, FOUNDER, WONDER CABINET, AGA KHAN AWARD RECIPIENT: One of the complexities of practicing in Palestine is that we don't have borders
to our city. Outskirts of cities are threatened of expropriation by the Israeli occupation. So it's very complicated, through that example alone,
to understand the complexity of practicing architecture in Palestine. So at a certain moment, we felt the need to diversify the activity within our
architectural practice to expand it to realms that go to art, to culture, to artisanship, to industries, and to kind of create a place of
contamination, of possible collaborations.
[10:55:174]
Blacksmith can collaborate with a sound artist, a chef can collaborate with a politician. It's a sort of a space where nothing is predefined, but
anything can happen. So it's a place of possibilities.
GIOKOS: During the U.S. Secretary of State's visit to Israel, Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke about his government's plans for West Bank
annexation. And in Gaza, Israel's Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich on Wednesday described it as a potential real estate, quote, "bonanza." This
comes as the Israeli military has started their ground incursion into Gaza City.
ANASTAS: In the current situation in the -- in the genocide that's happening in Gaza, it's a genocide, but it's also an herbicide. Everything
is being demolished. There are no more landmarks, no references. There's absolutely nothing left. And it's very difficult to think about
architecture in these times. The conditions for architectures to happen are not even there.
GIOKOS: These projects are bringing hope of rebuilding to communities that have been gripped by war and give a sense of resilience due to their
significant locations.
KHAVARIAN: Our message from Iran is we worked in Hormuz Island. Hormuz Island is so close to the Strait of Hormuz. The narrative about Hormuz is
tension, but Iranian people looking for peace with everyone. We like our borders with all around the world blurred, and we work with everyone,
everywhere who's honest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GIOKOS (on-camera): A beautiful way to end the show, and for me to wish you a happy weekend. That's it for CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Eleni Giokos. Stay
with CNN, "ONE WORLD" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
