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Connect the World
Netanyahu: If Hamas Agrees To Demands, The War Will End; Trump Speaks As He Departs For Ryder Cup In New York; CNN Presses Hamas Official On Horrors Facing Palestinians; Israel Faces Growing Isolation Over Gaza And West Bank; Beyond The Lens: A Photographer's Epic Journey. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired September 26, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
AMIR TIBON, DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, HAARETZ: The terms of the deal and renew the war in Gaza and I will speak now from an Israeli perspective.
Since he did that on March 18th, we had more than 60 of our soldiers killed in Gaza only one living hostage. Edan Alexander who has an American
passport returned alive. He was released because of his American passport. And Israel has become isolated on the world stage like you just saw when
literally every country walked out during the speech of the prime minister.
So we can just go back to that deal or we can go to the deal that was accepted on August 18th or perhaps this new plan presented by President
Trump, but something has to change because the current policy of Netanyahu is simply to continue the war indefinitely and this is causing great harm
to the hostages to the people of Israel. The real question is what will President Trump do when they meet in the White House on one day? Will he
actually force his hand to finish this and take a deal but we don't know yet.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: Amir, thank you. I just want to reset this show for our viewers. And welcome to what is the second hour of Connect the
World from our Middle East programming headquarters. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi where the time is just after 6:00 in the evening defiant and amid
increasing isolation. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wrapped up his speech to the United Nations General Assembly just moments ago blaming
Hamas for the ongoing war in Gaza and the deaths of Palestinian civilians there and saying Israel must, "finish the job against Hamas."
He told the audience the speech was broadcast across the border into Gaza so that Hamas militants and civilians could hear his appeal to free the
remaining hostages now and end the war. And he also responded to intense international criticism over Israel's actions in Gaza and elsewhere in the
Middle East and pushed back on growing global acceptance of a Palestinian state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: My opposition to a Palestinian state is not simply my policies or my government's policy. It's the policy
of the state and people of the state of Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, a number of delegations walked out of the General Assembly hall ahead of Netanyahu's speech which lasted just over 40 minutes. Nic
Robertson still with us and joining us again this hour. Nic, hostage families slammed the plan to broadcast Netanyahu's U.N. speech into Gaza on
loudspeakers. We have sound and vision showing that's exactly what happened. We heard his comments to Hamas leaders and hostages. Let's just
show a clip of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU: It's hard. In fact, it doesn't die at all. It just keeps coming back with its libelous lies refurbished, regurgitated over and over again.
And I want to tell you something else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Amir Tibon just reading out the words of one mother whose son is being held in Gaza who deplored that action by the Israeli prime minister.
We've been discussing the content and the tone of this speech and also, you know, once landed, you know, where it leaves the conflict, Israel, Israel's
position in the wider region. Your thoughts.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Look, this was Benjamin Netanyahu in his element on the biggest stage he gets to a global audience.
So at least those that stuck around for it. He is defined through his career as a powerful orator. And as Jeremy Diamond, our colleague just
mentioned, this was a performance that appeared directed at the Israeli population, despite having this huge international platform, although he
did try to direct some of his comments that way. And it does have the feel of a sort of a stump speech for the prime minister knowing he's got
elections next year showing how big and solid and strong a job is doing standing up for -- for Israel.
It was uncompromising. It was divisive, divisive because we saw the audience leave. It was unorthodox because, you know, for the many elements
that were involved there the pop quiz, for example. However on the areas where he really wanted to sort of influence the audience those that --
those that hung around and particularly on that issue of genocide where by the way, the ICC wants him on -- on allegations of genocide. He tried to
unpick that pointing out that Israel wouldn't move a population out of the way of the danger of their missiles and troops if they were intent on
genocide.
[10:05:16]
But he also -- you -- in doing that, he went on to, quote, a military expert saying that there are the civilian death toll is only one in two.
This is a sort of a military historic first where the figures that most international leaders, those that left the room and those that hung around,
will -- will recognize there are the figures that come regularly daily from the -- the Gaza health authorities saying that 75 percent of the people who
have died have been women, have been children and the elderly.
So if the prime minister wanted to pick a core issue to win back the audience that has lost faith in him. It's not that they reject the -- the
atrocities and the horrors of October the 7th that he reminded everyone about very in -- in great detail. It is the way that he's responded and he
gave that example of protecting civilians. And that's where the international sort of faith and -- and trust in the Israeli prime minister
breaks down and this is where you come back to that sense that this -- that he's speaking to a domestic audience as well. It was powerful. It was
unorthodox and by definition almost before he opened his mouth divisive because so many left.
ANDERSON: Jeremy let me bring you back in from Doha today and we will get some sound from the wide-ranging interview that you conducted with a senior
Hamas official momentarily. Before we do that, we are about I'm told to hear from President Trump who has spoken about a potential deal in Gaza. So
standby for that, that we expect to get about 30 seconds from now. Your sense at this point as to, you know, what you've heard and how you think
what you've heard from Israel's prime minister today is going to land with the U.S. President. Standby, let me just run this sound. Hold on.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I'm going to for a little while to represent the United States at the Ryder Cup, which is very
exciting. And we'll be watching that. This is Kai by the way, in case you didn't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you?
TRUMP: And we'll be watching a little golf. I think we have maybe a deal on Gaza and very close to a deal on Gaza. How are you? Hello Peter. And it's
looking like we have a deal on Gaza. And we'll -- we'll let you know.
I think it's a deal that will get the hostages back. It's going to be a deal that will end the war. It's going to be a deal with -- it's going to
be peace. I think we have a deal that'll be number eight Peter. Not bad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, James Comey -- now that James Comey has been indicted, who is the next person on your list in this retribution?
TRUMP: It's not a list, but I think they'll be others. I mean, they're corrupt. These -- these were corrupt radical left Democrats. This Comey
essentially was it that -- he's worse than a Democrat. I would say the Democrats are better than Comey. But, no, there'll be others. Look, it was
-- that's my opinion.
They weaponized the Justice Department like nobody in history. What they've done is terrible. And so I would -- I hope they're -- frankly, I hope there
are others because you can't let this happen to a country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you appoint a permanent U.S. attorney to try to this case (inaudible) has never people.
TRUMP: Well, we'll see but it's a pretty easy case because, look, he lied. You saw my Truth today. He lied. It was -- yes. He didn't say well, in my
opinion. He didn't do a lot of things that maybe he should have but I don't think he could because he lied. That was a very important question that he
was there and he wanted to be specific, but he didn't -- the only thing that happened to him. He didn't think he'd get caught. That -- that answer
that he gave, that was a very important answer, and it was very -- for him, it was a very good answer if he didn't get caught, but he got caught lying
to Congress that now that Congress.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump, are you worried now that the next time there's a Democratic president they will indict your FBI director or people
in your administration.
TRUMP: Well, that's what they tried to do, right? They did it with me for four years. They went after me. They went after me for four years and that
doesn't include the four great years that we had in the White House. So when I ran it from, you know, 2016 when we won it began -- before I got to
office, you know that, wait a minute, before I came to office, I started hearing rumors about Russia. I said, what the hell do I have to do with
Russia? Nothing. And then it got worse and worse than some of the fakers, not you, but some of the fake news picked it up and they loved it and we
went through a long time with that. And despite that we had a great first term.
(CROSSTALK)
[10:10:25]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that how it went -- because that's how it went where they maybe go and take a mugshot, is this more about justice or is it about
revenge?
TRUMP: It's about justice. It's not revenge. It's about justice. It's also -- it's also about the fact that you can't let this go on. They are sick
radical left people and they can't get away with it. And Comey -- Comey was one of the people. He wasn't the biggest but he's a dirty cop. He's always
been a dirty cop. Everybody knew it. And it's, you know, as far as the case is concerned, he gave an answer. It was a strong answer. He then verified
it a couple of times because that was a very important answer. If he would have equivocated, if he would have been like a little bit less sure that
would have been very bad for him. So he gave an answer. The only problem is for him, he didn't think it'd be caught and he got caught, Peter.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: It's about justice. He lied, he lied a lot, but this was a very important thing. This was -- he could have said well, maybe or I don't
remember. He didn't say that. He gave a very specific answer and then he verified it numerous times and he got caught. The problem that Comey has is
he got caught lying and he was very strong. It's not like well, maybe or I don't remember or, he gave a very specific answer because it was a very
powerful question, a very important question. And when he gave the answer, the only problem is he got caught, so.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, we're going to see but the radical left Democrats want to shut it down. I mean, it's up to them. We have a great economy going you saw the
numbers yesterday. They're fantastic. The economy is doing well, prices are down. We have virtually no inflation. Everything's going good. We're
respected by every nation in the world. And you know what happened, the Democrats want to shut it down. And they want to shut it down because they
want to give billions, ultimately trillions of dollars to illegal migrants, people that came into our country illegally.
Some of those people are criminals, but they came into our country illegally. And they want to give them the essential over years trillions of
dollars. And our people aren't going to stand for it. They also want to have open borders. They want to have men and women sports. They want to
have transgender for everybody. These people are crazy, the Democrats. So if it has to shut down, it'll have to shut down, but they're the ones that
are shutting down.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: OK, that's Donald Trump on his way to the Ryder Cup with his granddaughter, Kai, standing by waiting while he was taking questions, a
lot of questions there from the gathered press at the White House. Nic Robertson with me, Jeremy Diamond still with me. Jeremy standby. Nic, I
just want to get you just to unpack what we've just heard starting off very specifically with a comment that Donald Trump said. He said I think we have
a deal on Gaza effectively. We are close to a deal. He didn't give any further detail than that. What do you make of those comments and the others
about the former FBI director James Comey, of course?
ROBERTSON: Yes, look, I mean on the Gaza issue there may be a deal on Gaza. We may be close to peace. We sort of heard these lines before when we're
close maybe to getting all the hostages out. Look, we haven't seen anything to give us confidence in what that's -- what that narrative is being built
on. We know that the President has said that a red -- it's going to be a red line for annexation in the West Bank. But that doesn't make a deal far
from it. And we heard from the Saudi foreign minister yesterday saying that the President understands this on further annexation in the West Bank.
If the President has sort of set that in his mind as something that is told Prime Minister Netanyahu already, what about the rest of what Prime
Minister Netanyahu said, which is 90 percent, more than 90 percent of the Knesset doesn't want a Palestinian state. The majority is of -- majority of
Israelis don't want a Palestinian state. That Palestinians, he said don't want an Israeli state. So where does that leave?
[10:15:02]
There's no middle ground there on what Israel's neighbors in the Gulf, the Arab states around Israel that need to be partners in a final deal want
which is a pathway to a Palestinian state. So I didn't -- I'm not sure where the President is building his optimism here on these the way his
rebutting and framing the -- these allegations against Comey is I think, you know, when he talks there about this can happen to other people, that's
going to send further chills through previous officials who've had senior post and have come toe-to-toe, face-to-face and -- and -- and their
objections to President Trump and allegations of -- of wrongdoing. It -- it -- it is -- it is a chill for others who've been mixed it up if you were
with the President in the past.
ANDERSON: Good to have you, Nic. Jeremy, let me bring you in as Nic says very little detail by the sort of headline out of Donald Trump there as he
gets set to go to New York for this Ryder Cup. It's a deal, he says, that will get the hostages back and end the war. He says, I think we have a deal
on Gaza. No further detail though on that as Nic rightly says we've been here before and we hear from you as President that he thinks he has a deal.
So we'll stand by on that one.
You interviewed you're in Doha where you interviewed a Hamas official who is defending the October 7th attacks. Just explain.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, I actually think that the President's comments there are a good segue into this interview
because, Ghazi Hamad is a senior Hamas official. He is involved in the negotiations. And absolutely nothing in our conversation yesterday led me
to believe that these -- that Hamas and Israel are anywhere close to a ceasefire agreement instead Hamad talked to me about frozen negotiations
since Israel tried to assassinate him and other senior Hamas officials right here in the Qatari capital.
But indeed as you say it was a wide-ranging conversation including focusing on Hamas's responsibility for triggering this war on October 7th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND (voice-over): Years after Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th, Gaza has paid a massive price. The devastation rivaled only by the
suffering of its people. Israel has killed more than 65,000 Palestinians, according to the Palestinian health ministry. Hundreds of thousands are
displaced and homeless. Israeli attacks are only intensifying.
DIAMOND: Do you accept any responsibility for triggering so much death and destruction?
GHAZI HAMAD, SENIOR HAMAS OFFICIAL: The history did not begin -- begin on - - on October 7th. We spent 78 years under the occupation, under humiliation, under oppression, under repression, under killing, under
displacement. Now, why your world is focused on October 7th?
DIAMOND (voice-over): Ghazi Hamad is a senior Hamas official, sitting for his first U.S. T.V. interview in months.
DIAMOND: But before October 7th, Israel had never unleashed this level of death and destruction on Gaza before. How can you look at me with a
straight face and tell me that you accept no responsibility whatsoever for what has happened in the two years since?
HAMAD: Look, what -- what is the option left for the Palestinians to do? For the first time, the Palestinians have sacrificed in -- in the -- in the
-- this Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
DIAMOND: What gives you the right to decide that Palestinian women and children should be sacrificed on the altar of your resistance?
HAMAD: No, all the time we are sacrificing, we are fighting.
DIAMOND: But I am asking you about the civilian deaths in Gaza, and what gives you the right to decide it's a price worth paying? That child can
die. It's OK. Because it's -- it's -- it's in order to fulfill our resistance.
HAMAD: As Hamas, we are fighting for the interests of the people. We don't want our people to be killed. Don't put the problem on the shoulder of
Hamas. No, I think that --
DIAMOND: Sir, when I speak with Israeli officials, I press them about what they are doing in Gaza. When I'm speaking with Hamas officials, I press
them for your responsibility.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But some Palestinians have had enough. Our message to Hamas is stop gambling with us, this man says. You are disconnected from
reality, especially since the Hamas leadership is outside of Gaza.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to send a message to Hamas. We talk to people, talk by people. Stop the -- war. We are dying here.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But Hamad doesn't seem interested in hearing those voices.
HAMAD: I know. I -- I -- I -- I have seen. I have seen.
DIAMOND: This is not it. There's -- there's more.
HAMAD: I have seen this video. Yes, yes, yes.
DIAMOND: There is more.
HAMAD: I know people are suffering. There are some people who blame Hamas.
DIAMOND: Why will you not listen to the voices of Palestinian people in Gaza?
HAMAD: Look, look, yes, yes, I know. This is not, look, this is not the whole story.
DIAMOND: These people who want -- who want Hamas to surrender, lay down its weapons and leave the Gaza Strip. What do you say to them?
[10:20:06]
HAMAD: No -- no one asks Hamas to surrender. We will never surrender. These people are under abnormal circumstances. We will put them under target and
killing and massacring. What do you expect for people to say?
DIAMOND (voice-over): Hamad is eager to tout what he calls the, quote, benefits of October 7th, in which Hamas killed nearly 1,200 people and
kidnapped more than 250 others. He says it led to growing international support for the Palestinian cause.
HAMAD: What -- what -- what is the benefit of October 7th now? When the world now, if you look to the General Assembly yesterday, when about 194
people opened their eyes and looked to the atrocity, to brutality of Israel, and all of them, they condemned Israel. We waited for this moment
for 77 years. I think this is a golden moment for the world to change the history. I think that now the world is a change. The history is a change
now.
DIAMOND: In your view, 65,000 deaths is worth it in order to achieve what you've achieved.
HAMAD: Look -- look, I know the price is so high, but I'm asking again, what -- what is -- what is the option?
DIAMOND: What is worth it?
HAMAD: What is -- what is -- what is the -- the -- the -- the option left to the Palestinians? You know what? We waited for a peaceful process, for a
peaceful means, since 1940 -- 1993, since Oslo Agreement, until now.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The prospects for peace seem as far away as ever, two weeks after Israel tried to kill Hamad and other senior Hamas officials not
far from where we sat down.
HAMAD: I think it is a miracle, because the -- the rockets are very close to us. We are under target, and it was a brutal attack on us. So I think it
was a long and very strong message to us, and even to Qatari, that we are not interested in negotiation. We want to kill, we want to destroy, we want
to assassinate. This is our own policy to handle the whole situation. Everything now is frozen.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Hamas's demands have also not shifted.
HAMAD: We insisted to go to the comprehensive deal, to retain all the hostages, either alive or dead. And we -- we said, frankly, we can return
them in 24 hours. But Israel refused.
DIAMOND: Well, they have conditions for ending the war. They want Hamas to be out of power, and they want Hamas to disarm. Are you willing to abandon
power in Gaza and lay down your weapons?
HAMAD: Hamas is -- is part of the -- of the Palestinian fabric. You -- you cannot exclude Hamas. But the -- but as I said again and again, regarding
the ruling of Gaza, we are ready to be out of the ruling of Gaza. We have no problem with this. The arm of Hamas is a legitimate and legal weapon,
which is used all the time against occupation. It is not a terrorist weapon.
DIAMOND: How does this war end? Because over the course of our conversation, I've seen very little that suggests any willingness on your
part to compromise.
HAMAD: I think it is easy. I think Mr. Trump and the -- and the world could -- could ask Netanyahu in order to stop the war, to stop the genocide in
Gaza.
DIAMOND: Do you have any confidence that he will do that?
HAMAD: I don't know. I think we tested him many times. But I think it is not easy to trust Mr. Trump or to trust the American administration. All
the time, they put the glasses of Israel. They adopt the Israeli position.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND: And Becky, that last quote that you heard there from Ghazi Hamad is very interesting in light of what we're hearing from President Trump
now. You know, he made no bones that Hamas is in a position right now where it very much distrusts the American administration, feeling that they have
lost credibility as a mediator over the course of many back and forths. He described to me times where the American proposal seemed to change after
conversations between American and Israeli officials.
And then, of course, there is that strike that happened here in the Qatari capital two weeks ago right after the Americans submitted their latest
ceasefire proposal as the senior Hamas officials were sitting down to review it. And so it was interesting in light of all of that to hear Ghazi
Hamad, the senior Hamas official, involved in these negotiations, not really trying to cozy up to the American administration in the way that
we've seen Hamas do in the past, but instead here just making very clear that they have a big trust and credibility issue at the moment. It will be
very interesting to see how that impacts negotiations going forward. Becky?
ANDERSON: Yes, it's good to have you, Jeremy. Thank you very much indeed, Jeremy, there in Doha after what was a wide ranging interview with the
senior Hamas official. And more of that is online and on your CNN app.
Well, in an op-ed in the New York Times, the president of the Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti, welcomed the recognition of
Palestinian statehood, but he described it as, "empty symbolism at best and at worst a distraction from a lack of action to stop Israel's war in Gaza
and the starvation and forced displacement of roughly 2 million Palestinians there."
[10:25:06]
Well, joining us now is Mustafa Barghouti, the president of the Palestinian National Initiative. Apologies for mispronouncing your name, Mustafa. Thank
you very much indeed for joining us today. And you will have just heard Jeremy's interview with the senior Hamas official, who was defending the
extremely high civilian price of the Israeli response for October the 7th for Palestinians. What do you make of the comments? And do you see the
prospects for peace as -- as far away as ever at this point?
MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI, PRESIDENT, PALESTINIAN NATIONAL INITIATIVE: Yes, I heard that interview and I also heard what Netanyahu said today in the General
Assembly. And Netanyahu left no space whatsoever for any kind of agreement about anything. I mean, what we've heard from Netanyahu today showed very
clearly how much he is separate from reality, speaking to an empty hole, basically, and how much he tried to lie again. And I think these are the
largest ever lies we've ever heard in the General Assembly when he claimed that -- that there isn't such a loss among the civilian population,
although Israeli resources themselves and British resources have indicated that five out of the six people killed in Gaza, 65,000 people, are
civilians, 20,000 of them are children. We have the names of these children. They cannot be hidden.
And in my opinion, he's not only lying, but actually he tried to show one more time as if Israel was the victim and -- and the Palestinians were the
criminals, the Palestinians who have been under Israeli military occupation, under a system of apartheid. But at the same time, he tried to
be David and Goliath at the same time, speaking proudly about his ability to attack Yemen and Lebanon and Syria and, of course, all Palestinian
territories and Iran.
No, this is a -- this is very dangerous leader who has led us all and led his own people, actually, to a disaster, and to a disaster that cannot only
be described as another Holocaust in Gaza. Please.
ANDERSON: And I want to just talk to you about your op-ed with reference to those nations that have recognized Israel during this 80th session at the
U.N. General Assembly. Benjamin Netanyahu referred to those nations as shameful, and he referred to the recognition as unconditional. You've
called it sort of just symbolic. I want to be clear about this. There are conditions by a number of these European countries. They say that Hamas
must not have any role in Gaza going forward. It must lay down its weapons at this point, and all hostages must be released.
You're not the first person to have called these nations who have recognized just, you know, carrying out symbolic acts. Can you just explain
what you mean by that? I know you're asking for sort of concrete action. If that is the case, what is it?
BARGHOUTI: We welcome the recognitions because they affirm our right of self-determination. When Netanyahu attacks these countries, he's attacking
159 countries of the world, which is more than 80 percent of the General Assembly of the United Nations. That shows you how isolated his argument
is. But what we want is not just recognition. It's not enough.
What we want are actions to force Israel to stop the genocide that is happening today now in front of our eyes in the Gaza City, which is being
destroyed completely. We need sanctions on Israel to force it to stop this war. We need real sanctions. We need military embargo, as Spain has done.
Because without sanctions, without economic and military pressure on Israel, it will not stop. It will continue this disastrous war. It will
continue this disastrous attacks on Palestinian and Palestinians.
And clearly, as you have heard Netanyahu, he says he wants to keep the occupation of Gaza and he wants to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. But one
more -- one last point. I'm very worried about this, all this talk about what will happen afterwards in Gaza. In my opinion, there is an effort to
distract attention from the crime that is happening now and today in Gaza.
ANDERSON: And Benjamin Netanyahu has said, or certainly officials from his government have said, that they will continue this assault on Gaza and it
could take a couple of months. So it may at this point continue for some time. Sanctions that you speak of that you would hope to see from these
nations who have recognized a Palestinian state are not on the table as you know. Support for a two-state solution is -- is two-state solution even in
discussion realistic at this point?
[10:30:35]
BARGHOUTI: It would not be in discussion unless there is pressure on Israel. And it has to be clear if you want two-state solution if you want
an independent Palestinian state all these illegal settlements have to be removed from the occupied territories. And the Israeli occupation must end.
A Palestinian state cannot exist without being contiguous. A Palestinian state cannot exist if we still have the Israeli army controlling our
airspace, our electromagnetic space, our borders, our import, our export.
Only a few days ago the Israeli army closed the only passage to the West Bank which is the Allenby Bridge and for -- put 3.5 million people in a
prison. At this moment the Israeli army is spreading 1,000 military checkpoints and hundreds of military gates that transform Palestinian
communities into ghettos. We need the end of occupation. The occupation will not end unless Israel feels that there is a price to this occupation.
And by the way the issue of Hamas is resolved. They have said as you have just said on your program that they don't want to be the government, they
don't want to be in the government but we cannot have a government run by Israel while it continues its occupation and oppression of the
Palestinians. And at the most important issue now, please allow me to say that, the most important thing is to stop the slaughter of Palestinians now
at the moment in Gaza.
ANDERSON: Mustafa Barghouti, it's good to have you on sir. Thank you very much indeed.
Right. Coming up fighting the war in Gaza has already cost Israel tens of billions of dollars. I'm going to speak to the former governor of the Bank
of Israel who has a warning about its long-term financial consequences.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:35:35]
ANDERSON: Welcome back to Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. Your headlines this hour, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
addressed the United Nations General Assembly last hour defending Israel's actions in Gaza and saying Hamas is responsible for the ongoing war. He
urged Hamas to free the three remaining hostages now in a message he says was broadcast throughout Gaza. Well a number of delegations walked out of
the General Assembly Hall ahead of Mr. Netanyahu's speech.
Former FBI director James Comey says he welcomes a trial following his indictment on two criminal charges. He is accused of making false
statements and obstructing a congressional proceeding. It relates to his testimony five years ago about Russian interference in the 2016
presidential election.
Well the quest for golf's most coveted prize the Ryder Cup is now underway. It's Team Europe versus Team USA in the tournament held every other year
dating back to 1927. The U.S. looks to win back the Cup last time things got a little ugly. Drama on both sides, team Europe ultimately won. Team
USA does hope for some home turf advantage at Bethpage golf course in New York. And the U.S. president on his way in support. We just heard from him
with his granddaughter, Kai, before they jumped in the helicopter to get up to that course.
Well it's become apparent at the United Nations this week that Israel is increasingly isolated over how it is conducting its war in Gaza. France,
the Netherlands, U.K., Spain and Italy have all imposed complete or partial embargoes on supplying arms to Israel. And last month Norway's sovereign
wealth fund, the largest in the world, began divesting from Israeli companies because of the government's actions in Gaza and the West Bank.
The war in Gaza is already the most expensive in Israel's history. Bloomberg reports the government has spent around $60 billion with the Gaza
City offensive expected to cost another 7.5 billion. Even the Prime Minister has acknowledged that the war has led to growing strain and
isolation for Israel. These his comments a week or so ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU (through translator): Arms shipments to us are being halted. This is happening now. In the coming years we'll need to strengthen our
independent arms industries so that we have autonomy in armaments and the economy of armaments with the industrial capacity to produce them. So have
they achieved global isolation? No. The United States is with us as are many other countries but we currently have a focused problem in Western
Europe and we are acting and will continue to act to lift this siege.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well Israeli opposition leader Yair Lapid responded to Netanyahu by saying, "isolation is not fate. It's the result of Netanyahu's flawed
and failed policy." My next guest recently published an op-ed calling for the government of Israel to consider the economic consequences of occupying
Gaza. Karnit Flug is the former governor of the Bank of Israel and is a senior fellow at the Israel Democracy Institute. She joins us live from Tel
Aviv.
It's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed for being with us. You wrote that piece before the ground offensive in Gaza began. How concerned
are you now that Israel has entered this phase?
KARNIT FLUG, SENIOR FELLOW, ISRAEL DEMOCRACY INSTITUTE: Well I think that the continuing war will have very heavy consequences on the economy both in
terms of the costs of the war but also in terms of the economy. Israeli's economy benefited greatly from being part of the global economy. Our
markets are overseas, our investors are overseas. And I think that the isolation will be very damaging to the economy.
ANDERSON: And Netanyahu himself just addressing the growing pressure from U.N. member states, whom -- many of whom he -- he was referring to as
shameful in their decision to recognize a Palestinian state. This was his speech last hour or part of it at least. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:40:09]
NETANYAHU: Astoundingly, as we fight the terrorists who murdered many of your citizens, you are fighting us. You condemn us, you embargo us and you
wage political and legal warfare, it's called lawfare, against us. I say to the representatives of those nations, this is not an indictment of Israel.
It's an indictment of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I just wonder how you expect those sort of comments to be received.
FLUG: Well, I'm not sure I'm the right person to comment on that, but I think part of what Netanyahu tried to say is that the interests of Israel
and some of our Western allies are aligned and I can say that they're certainly aligned in the economic sphere. So I think that if our markets
are closed, if our very innovative products do not have the markets in the Western countries, I think it will definitely be detrimental to our economy
and to our high-tech sector. But I think it would be also detrimental to those who actually enjoyed our products, our very innovative high-tech
sector products in -- in very many areas.
ANDERSON: And -- and what you've just said echoed in your piece when you write, this scenario of Israel's economy being battered on multiple fronts
would have unprecedented consequences for citizens. Can Israel, or how long can Israel, perhaps is the -- is the question, withstand the long-term
consequences of this war? And I guess what I'm -- what I'm speaking to there are the physical costs, but also the reputational costs.
FLUG: Yes, so first of all I should say that so far the economy exhibited an unbelievable resilience in the face of two years of war and the -- the
economy is strong. Actually it recovered quite strongly from the war, in the beginning of the war in October 7th of 2023. But it has a heavy cost
and we see it in the strained public finances and that will get much heavier if the war continues and certainly if we occupy Gaza, because then
it will not be only the cost of the military, of the army, of the reservists and so on, but also the need to supply the basic humanitarian
needs of the population if we occupy Gaza and if we stay there. And what it would mean is, higher taxes and lower services also for the public.
ANDERSON: And I wonder whether you support the policy of further normalization with other Arab states or Arab states, other countries around
the region, after all the bilateral sort of opportunities that have come from the current Abraham Accords of course have, or certainly were, very
positive for the Israeli economy. Does it worry you that further normalization seems as far away as ever at this point? I mean this is about
economic integration around the region, it was supposed to be good news for Israel of course, wasn't it?
FLUG: Yes, I certainly hope that actually the conditions will be such that the Abraham Accords can be expanded to other countries. I think we have
already benefited a lot from these agreements, us and also our partners, and I hope that the situation here changes in the direction that these
Accords will be expanded, because I think they really bring great potential to -- to the region and obviously also to Israel.
ANDERSON: It's good to have you, thank you very much indeed for your perspective today, an important one for us here on Connect the World, thank
you.
[10:44:29]
Well coming up next on the show, join wildlife photographer, Chris Fallows, again on the South African seas, where he has captured some of his most
famous images, and I say again because we've been running this series all week, it's part of our Call to Earth series, and you'll see more of what
are these fantastic images after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: For all this week on Call to Earth, we go on an epic journey with world-renowned photographer, Chris Fallows, who utilizes his fine art
imagery to inspire change. Today we join Fallows at home in South Africa, and off the coast of Cape Town, where he has captured some of his most
iconic images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS FALLOWS, PHOTOGRAPHER: On mornings like this, the anticipation of finding something is absolutely incredible. You have this electricity that
goes through you, and the art of nature is all around you. It's now just a matter of finding something, and then hopefully doing it justice, in what
is a truly incredible morning here in False Bay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Photographer, Chris Fallows, knows these waters well. Over the last few decades, he spent thousands of days and
countless hours navigating the South African coastline in the name of science, conservation, and art.
C. FALLOWS: It's the race against time to beat the sunrise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Equally familiar, and always by his side, is Chris's wife and co-captain, Monique.
C. FALLOWS: So today what we're after is something truly special, and that is a megapod of dolphins. A megapod is usually a thousand animals or more,
and at this time of the year we have a fair chance of finding them. It's one of the things that makes the South African coastline truly unique, and
for me such an incredible place to photograph along.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Home to more than 13,000 species, a third of which only exists here, South Africa's seas are an exceptionally rich
environment.
C. FALLOWS: I think it's tracked down the island at medium speed.
MONIQUE FALLOWS, CHRIS FALLOWS' WIFE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): They're also supported by the country's 42 marine protected areas.
C. FALLOWS: Slow down just a whisker please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): From dolphins to seals, sharks to seabirds, there's ample opportunity to capture nature at its most
spectacular.
C. FALLOWS: It's an incredible scene, really towards about a thousand fifteen hundred over there. We're going to have nearly 2,500 dolphins
around us in the next little while.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Before he went all-in on photography, Chris cut his teeth running a shark tag and release program, and then led
expeditions to witness the ocean's most infamous predator in action.
C. FALLOWS: This location was unprecedented on the planet. If you wanted to see great white sharks hunting, you came here to Seal Island.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): In 1996, he and a colleague were the first to document the now famous breaching great white sharks of False Bay.
Naturally, he started taking pictures of the previously unknown behavior. The 2001 release of an image he dubbed Air Jaws caught the world's
attention. As a self-described naturalist first, the time spent with the great whites was equally important from a scientific point of view.
[10:50:08]
C. FALLOWS: Over the years we recorded more than 10,400 predatory events, which is by a long way the largest database of its kind in the world.
M. FALLOWS: I'll go on the left side, you go on the right side, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): When it comes to taking pictures, whether they're a contribution to science or become a piece of his fine art
portfolio, for Chris there is no better place to be.
C. Fallows: Where else could you have had flying great white sharks, super groups of humpback whales, megapods of dolphins, and offshore pelagic
sharks, tuna, all sorts of things within the space of not even a hundred kilometers. It's an incredible landscape, it's an incredible country, and I
hope we do absolutely everything we can to protect these amazing natural assets.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: More Call to Earth this weekend with the premiere of that full documentary Beyond the Lens, only on CNN. I'll be back with more news after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Golf's greatest team competitions is underway this morning. The Ryder Cup goes all the way back to 1927, when the USA took on Great
Britain. Now these days it's USA versus Europe. And the Europeans haven't tasted victory on American soil since 2012. Let's get you to Bethpage
Black, the home of what is the 2025 edition to Farmingdale, New York, and our Don Riddell. There are some huge names on the European team, Rory
McIlroy, Justin Rose. Team USA equally starry, Scottie Scheffler and J. J. Spaun. It's going to be an exciting three days ahead. What are your
predictions, mate?
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, Becky, it's already started, and it's already started unbelievably well for the European team. You were just
saying how the Ryder Cup goes back a few years. You and I go back a few years. I've just had a flashback to 2010, when I was on with you from
Celtic Manor in Wales after the Europeans had just pulled off an absolutely extraordinary win against the Americans.
Right now the Europeans must be absolutely dreaming, because they've won the first three foursomes matches completely silencing what was expected to
be a bombastic Bethpage Black crowd here in New York. This is not going at all to plan for the American team. Let's just quickly recap what happened.
Tyrrell Hatton and Jon Rahm went out first for the Europeans, beating Bryson DeChambeau and Justin Thomas 4-3. Then we had Ludvig Aberg and Matt
Fitzpatrick thumping Scottie Scheffler and Russell Henley 5-3. Not at all what you would have expected from the world number one Scottie Scheffler.
That was another humiliating Ryder Cup defeat for him.
And then arguably Europe's favorite pairing, Fleetwood Mac, they're known as, Tommy Fleetwood and Rory McIlroy 5-4, thrashing against Collin Morikawa
and Harris English. So Europe doing really, really well so far. There's one foursomes match still going on. That is very close with about four or five,
six holes still to play. Let's see what the afternoon four balls brings. Who knows the way this has started, but I can tell you what we are
expecting.
[10:55:00]
The U.S. President Donald Trump is on his way. He is expected here for the afternoon session. And he is, I guess, the American team's most famous fan.
He's their cheerleader in chief. The way things are going, he can't get here soon enough because they are in absolutely desperate need of a lift.
We all know that the United States is an extremely divided country at the moment, so perhaps not everybody will welcome Mr. Trump to Bethpage.
But the players certainly are big fans of his and they're going to welcome him with open arms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTTIE SCHEFFLER, 3RD RYDER CUP APPEARANCE: It's been a tough few weeks for our country with some of the stuff that's been going on. And, you know,
to have our President here and for us to be able to represent the United States of America, albeit in a golf tournament, is extremely important to
us. And we're excited to -- to be here on home soil with a home crowd.
KEEGAN BRADLEY, TEAM USA CAPTAIN: Having the President there to support you is, you know, something that is just absolutely incredible. And I'm really
grateful for him for doing that for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIDDELL: So security is tight, as you would expect, with the President's arrival being imminent. Many, many security cordons to get into the course,
but also just an additional cordon just to be able to get around the first tee and the 18th green. So security is very, very tight and I would say the
home crowd are rather flat at the moment, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes. Maybe they need Donald Trump to take a club and swing it around for them. Maybe -- maybe he should play for Team USA this weekend,
who knows? Thank you, mate. It's always good to have you. Goodness, it takes us back, doesn't it? Fifteen years, my goodness, when you and I last
talked to the Ryder Cup. That's it for Connect the World. Stay with CNN. One World is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
