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Hamas Claims All Possible Hostage Remains Returned; U.N. States IDF Continues to Kill Civilians in Gaza; Gaza Hospitals Cope with Shortages as Israel Restricts Aid; UNICEF Asks Israel to Open Border Crossings; Trump Confirms CIA Authorization to Operate in Venezuela; Interview with Former Colombian Ambassador to U.S. Regarding Regime Change; Senate to Vote for 10th Time on Shutdown Bill; Call to Earth: One Ocean Foundation; New London Statue Honors Post-Partum Mothers. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired October 16, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00]
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CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to the second hour of the show. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London.
Israel is marking the October 7th anniversary today with a warning from prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the struggles are not over.
The Trump administration authorizes CIA operations in Venezuela. Venezuelan president Maduro criticizes the escalation, calling for no more war.
And the U.S. is now in its 16th day of a government shutdown. The Republican and Democratic parties are pointing fingers but not passing a
new funding bill.
Well, the Gaza ceasefire agreement appears increasingly under pressure amid a growing dispute over the remains of the deceased hostages. Hamas says it
has handed back everyone that it can. Nine of the 28 dead captives have been returned so far. But sources tell CNN that Israel believes Hamas has
access to more bodies.
The Israeli government has yet to reopen the critical Rafah border crossings and is considering further action, such as more aid restrictions
or reoccupying the Netzarim Corridor, which splits the enclave in half.
The Americans, for their part, say they do not believe Hamas is violating the agreement. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is back with us this hour.
So Jeremy, how much are these power struggles threatening this fragile ceasefire at this moment?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no question that, inside of the Gaza Strip, since this ceasefire has been effect, in
effect there has been a real effort to control power in the Gaza Strip. Hamas reasserting itself and also clashing with other armed groups inside
of Gaza.
And the most grisly example that we saw of Hamas trying to reassert its power was with these very public executions this week. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND (voice-over): In the middle of a public square in Gaza City, eight bound and blindfolded men are dragged out and forced to kneel. One by one
armed Hamas militants take up their positions behind them, aiming rifles at their heads before opening fire. All eight men fall to the ground,
executed.
This is part of the grim reality of post-ceasefire Gaza, as Hamas forces say they are carrying out a, quote, "comprehensive security operation" to
root out those they accuse of collaborating with Israel.
With these bodies, Hamas also reestablishing the element of fear it has used to rule Gaza for years, as it looks to reassert its dominance over a
decimated Gaza Strip.
Amid its ceasefire with Israel, Hamas is now putting on a show of force in Gaza streets, attacking other armed groups from gangs backed by Israel to
powerful clans that have a history of clashing with Hamas.
The Dughmush clan, which denies collaborating with Israel, has accused Hamas of killing nearly 30 members of its family in the last week. U.S.
Central Command, which is monitoring the ceasefire, urging Hamas to immediately suspend violence and shooting at innocent Palestinian civilians
in Gaza.
TRUMP: It's going to hold up.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The violence is a reminder of unresolved issues at the heart of President Trump's plan to end the war in Gaza. Hamas''
handover of power, the establishment of an international security force and Hamas'' disarmament, all still being negotiated.
TRUMP: They're going to disarm. And because they said they were going to disarm and if they don't disarm, we will disarm them.
QUESTION: How will you do that?
TRUMP: I don't have to explain that to you. But if they don't disarm, we will disarm them.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The ceasefire deal already proving fragile. Hamas has only returned the remains of nine of 28 deceased hostages so far. Some
are pending DNA testing. And Israel says one body Hamas handed over was not that of a hostage. Hamas says Gaza's destruction is complicating matters.
Israel has continued killing Palestinians. At least 15 since the ceasefire went into effect, according to the U.N.'s Human Rights Office. The Israeli
military says it has fired on Palestinians who approached Israeli lines in Gaza. In the ruins of Gaza, an uncertain future and the long road ahead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[10:05:00]
And since then, we've heard from U.S. officials who say that they do not believe that Hamas is violating the ceasefire agreement by having handed
over just nine of those 28 bodies.
They acknowledge very challenging circumstances on the ground and say that there are specialized teams, Egyptians and Turkish teams, on the ground,
working to try and recover some of those bodies, many of which appear to be under the rubble of buildings struck by the Israeli military over the
course of this war.
This is, of course, a broader problem beyond just the Israeli hostage bodies. There are an estimated, you know, 10,000-plus bodies of
Palestinians also believed to be under the rubble in Gaza.
And we simply have not yet seen the entry of specialized heavy machinery and equipment to be able to retrieve many of those bodies under the rubble,
to give the families of all of these individuals, both Israeli hostages and these Palestinian civilians killed during the war, the closure that they so
deserve.
We are also monitoring the entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza.
The Israeli government has yet to authorize the opening of that Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza and we have seen that Israeli officials
have indicated they're restricting some of the flow of aid into Gaza in retaliation for Hamas not releasing a sufficient number of bodies as far as
the Israelis are concerned.
So a lot of moving pieces here. And a reminder, once again, of just how fragile this ceasefire agreement is and of how dire the conditions on the
ground in Gaza remain.
MACFARLANE: Yes. And just to dig a bit further on that, Jeremy, you know, while you've been discussing how this power struggle is playing out,
obviously the need for humanitarian aid on the Gaza Strip is extreme.
We were promised a flood of aid, you know, on the signing of this ceasefire but that has not transpired yet, largely because there is still ongoing
negotiations over the Rafah crossing.
Do you have any update today on where those negotiations stand?
DIAMOND: You know, the Israeli government has indicated that it never planned to open the Rafah crossing for humanitarian aid. But that stands in
contrast to the fact that we've seen large amounts of humanitarian aid stockpiled near that Rafah crossing, some of it even entering the Egyptian
side of the Rafah crossing, presumably for inspection.
So some uncertainty there. The Israelis indicating that that crossing is only going to be open for Palestinian civilians to go in and out of --
between Egypt and Gaza if they have the proper permissions.
We have seen an increase in the amount of aid getting into Gaza. There's no question about that. But it simply is not enough yet.
And we've heard from the director of Al-Shifa Hospital, for example, in Gaza City, indicating that they are running very low on very necessary
medical supplies there. The World Health Organization has been working to get some of those supplies in. But so far it seems that only the most basic
needs are being met.
And again, this is something that's going to not just take days but really weeks and even months, given, you know, how restricted humanitarian aid has
been in Gaza over the course of the last several months.
It's going to take some time before we get to kind of stable levels in Gaza, even if Israel starts allowing those 600 trucks of humanitarian aid
per day that it is required to under this ceasefire agreement.
The involvement of the United States is critical at this stage as well. We know that U.S. Central Command has been involved in monitoring this
ceasefire and its implementation, including the retrieval of the bodies, as well as the openings of these additional crossings.
Again, U.S. officials who we've spoken with expressing some optimism about, you know, the things moving forward and not falling apart at this stage.
But again, it requires a lot of hand-holding on both sides here to ensure that this ceasefire agreement stays in place, the aid amounts required for
Gaza get in and also that more of those remains of hostages come back to Israel.
MACFARLANE: And we will, of course, continue to monitor this closely. We appreciate your reporting, Jeremy Diamond there, live from Tel Aviv.
OK. Still to come, a major escalation in president Trump's crackdown on migrants and drugs from Venezuela. He says he authorized the CIA to operate
inside the country and warns U.S. operations there could soon expand.
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MACFARLANE: Well, as Israel continues to restrict the aid flow to Gaza, hospitals in the enclave are reporting severe shortages. The director of
Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City says there has been no change in the situation and that child malnutrition is continuing because no supplies
have been delivered.
Well, my next guest is Antoine Renard, the World Food Programme country director for Palestine. He is joining us live from Jerusalem.
Thank you so much for your time. I want to --
(CROSSTALK)
ANTOINE RENARD, COUNTRY DIRECTOR FOR PALESTINE, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: Thanks a lot, Christina.
MACFARLANE: -- thank you. I want to, Antoine, get straight to the situation that you're seeing. It's been nearly a week now since this
ceasefire was declared.
Have you seen any improvement in access for delivery of aid to the Gaza Strip?
How much are the World Food Programme currently getting in?
RENARD: Well, since the ceasefire, what are -- what is the main struggle is the fact that we are still relying only on two crossings. It's only
Kerem Shalom and only in Kissufim, which is in the south of the Strip.
And that's the biggest challenge that all the humanitarian are facing is the fact that we are not having also the crossings in the north that are
operating, the one in Zikim and also Erez.
We've been doing and working around the clock to make sure that we can reach these crossings. But so far they are not yet open. And that's perhaps
the biggest struggle to manage, to actually have sufficient volume to get into Gaza, as all commercial and humanitarian aid is relying only on two
crossings so far.
MACFARLANE: And as that is the case, we're also hearing that the Rafah crossing is remaining shut. There are questions now over the Netzarim
corridor and access there. And there's been uncertainty as to how many trucks have been making it into Gaza.
Obviously it was -- there was a promise of 600 trucks at the start of the ceasefire. We've heard that Israel are now restricting this to 300 trucks.
Are you -- do you have any indication from what you're seeing and the partners you're working with as to how many trucks have made it in?
RENARD: Well, the current challenge that we have is that it's been since the beginning of the ceasefire, also a bit of an on /off, because you had
also the hostages that were actually released on Monday to when they were alive.
You also have only some of these crossings that were -- some of the hostages' bodies were also going through. So that's why some of the
crossings are not behaving in the way where we can actually go at full speed.
So this is where so far what we've managed to do on our end as the World Food Programme is, whenever we have a proper window, trying to maximize the
number of trucks that are getting in.
And yesterday only, we managed actually to have sufficient goods getting in to maintain and support what is currently one of our main lifelines, a
lifeline which is producing bread to reach 0.5 million people. And we're getting goods getting in. But it's not sufficient scale. And this is why we
continue our plea.
MACFARLANE: And that scale of need is immense. And we know, of course, as well that access is difficult, given the scale of destruction there.
Once you do get in, how will you prioritize the delivery of aid?
What is the plan?
RENARD: Well, I think that, Christina, we're beyond a plan. We are actually already effective related to prioritization.
[10:15:00]
So we are, as we speak, we managed to bring nutritious goods, along with UNICEF, into the Strip. We have more than 150 prevention sites that are
operating. And we have practically 90, in terms of treatment.
So we are able to bring nutritious goods for children under 5, as well as pregnant and breastfeeding women. And that is clearly a priority, given the
issue of malnutrition within Gaza.
As well as I was mentioning to you, we managed to have 10 bakeries that are operating now since the 5th of October. These are 10 industrial bakeries in
south and central of Gaza, reaching 0.5 million people with fresh bread.
What is a priority is actually to reach the north and Gaza City. We had few nutritious goods that managed to get in. But we are now mapping how many
different type of bakeries are still there.
How many kitchen and hot meal can be distributed?
Because many sites have been destroyed as well as general food distribution point. So in the north, we're still mapping some of the conditions for us
to be able to operate. But this is a priority for us, given also the number of people that went back into Gaza City.
MACFARLANE: You'll know, of course, the Israeli government have yet to reopen the Rafah border. And they're now threatening to reoccupy the
Netzarim corridor, given the ongoing situation with the return of hostage bodies.
What is your response to life-saving aid for Palestinians being used as a bargaining chip in these negotiations?
RENARD: You know, it's been more than two years into this conflict.
And I think that one of the aspects that is most prominent is for us to continue to advocate systematically whenever there is any hurdles related
to the belligerent, is to make sure that we keep a proper mantra related to reaching people.
I think that all the different belligerents, being Israel or being Hamas, it's for us to make sure that the civilian population can be reached and
reached at scale. So I think that this is why we continue our advocacy.
And as we speak, we managed to have five distribution points for food parcels to reach people. We didn't manage to reach these actual sites for
months. So that's why we will keep and will need now to reach around 150 of these distribution points. That is where we need to continue our plea.
MACFARLANE: Well, it is good to hear that some of that vital aid is getting through from the World Food Programme and we will, of course,
continue to keep a check in with you, Antoine, as things develop. We appreciate your time. Thank you.
Now U.S. president Donald Trump has revealed he authorized the CIA to conduct covert operations in Venezuela. He says it's needed to stop the
illegal flow of migrants and drugs from the South American nation.
His announcement comes on the heels of a fifth known U.S. strike in the Caribbean. The Trump administration says they are targeting drug boats but
have not provided any evidence. And now Mr. Trump is threatening a new major escalation: potential land strikes in Venezuela.
Meanwhile, Venezuela's president is pushing back, saying he wants peace with the U.S., not war. And Nicolas Maduro is demanding an end to what he
calls discriminatory and xenophobic statements from the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLAS MADURO, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): Not regime change, which reminds us so much of the endless failed wars in Afghanistan,
Iraq, Libya and so on. No to CIA orchestrated coups d'etat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, we're joined now by Benjamin Gedan. He is the director of the Latin America program at the Stimson Center and was the South
America director on the National Security Council under the Obama administration.
Thank you so much for joining us.
BENJAMIN GEDAN, DIRECTOR, LATIN AMERICA PROGRAM, STIMSON CENTER: You're welcome.
MACFARLANE: So, Benjamin, high-level Venezuelans are accusing the CIA of having operated in the country for years.
You, as I have just mentioned, the former South America director on the National Security Council staff under the Obama White House.
Can you tell us if that's true?
GEDAN: No, I can't talk about U.S. intelligence community activities. I can tell you that the United States, for a long time, has been concerned
about the conduct of the Venezuelan government and has tried to use lots of different tools to bring about a transition.
But the focus, at least until recently, was a peaceful, democratic transition. And so the tools involved diplomacy and regional coordination.
I mean, we've heard Donald Trump saying that Venezuela is, of course, a narco state.
[10:20:00]
MACFARLANE: But a former national security official for the Biden White House told CNN that nearly all of the cocaine that enters the U.S. comes
from Colombia and that Venezuela has never needed to develop a drug- producing industry, given that it has oil and its gold reserves.
So I want to ask you what you think is really going on here.
Is Trump targeting the drug trade or is this about something else entirely?
GEDAN: Yes, the messaging around this is really unusual because mostly the concern in the Trump White House is fentanyl, which is produced largely in
Mexico and transferred across the border to the United States.
Cocaine does come through Venezuela and into the Caribbean, into the United States but much less than the cocaine that transits the Pacific routes.
And so arguing that this massive deployment is related to a counter- narcotics mission is implausible. And the scale of the naval deployment in the Caribbean also is well beyond what would be necessary to attack just a
few fast boats, trafficking cocaine around small islands off the coast of Venezuela.
MACFARLANE: How much do you think the oil reserves are at play here as well?
Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world.
So could that also be you know, in the background here?
GEDAN: That would be kind of an unusual motive for this. I mean, often critics of the United States, in Latin America, accuse the United States of
seeking to steal natural resources like oil.
In reality, the U.S. and Venezuela had a very integrated energy system and U.S. refineries would import Venezuelan oil. And Venezuela was happy to
sell its oil to the United States and to accept investment from U.S. companies like Chevron.
So right now, if the priority were accessing Venezuela's energy, it would be much easier to do that without a war.
MACFARLANE: It's interesting to hear Maria Machado, the opposition leader and, of course, Nobel Peace Prize winner, who spoke to CNN yesterday and
what she had to say about regime change. Just take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER: Venezuela right now is a safe haven, where Hezbollah, Hamas, the drug
cartels, the Colombian guerrilla operate freely. And they are part of this liaison with the regime.
And what we have done, the Venezuelan people, as I said, it's already mandated regime change. We want and we need help to enforce that decision.
And that help comes in terms of applying, enforcing the law, cutting those flows that come from this criminal activities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Benjamin, what prospect is there, do you think, for regime change in Venezuela?
GEDAN: It's unlikely in the short term, absent the kind of intervention that would create an enormous amount of uncertainty and chaos.
A lot of people point to the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 as an example of a relatively painless exercise and regime change that did stabilize
politics in Panama and create a democratic and consistent partner. This is completely different situation, right?
Venezuela is twice the size of California, more than 30 million people. Not only does it have a military armed by Russia, it has state-sponsored
militias. It has Colombian guerrillas. It is a chaotic, violent, nearly- failed state and one that would put up a fight if the United States tried to intervene militarily.
If the United States tried to occupy Venezuela, it would inherit a country utterly on its knees with failed infrastructure. It can hardly keep the
lights on, feed its people, provide adequate medicine. It would be an enormous undertaking and very off-brand for this president.
MACFARLANE: Yes. So there's a high chance here that this could backfire against the Trump administration -- Iran, Russia, China, as you've been
saying, supporters of Venezuela in the past -- it's very unlikely they will, you know, stand to let this happen.
GEDAN: Yes. Look, the United States military does have the capability of attacking and occupying Venezuela. As I said, it would be an
extraordinarily costly exercise and one that wouldn't be accomplished quickly.
But it's possible, if the United States is trying to do it on the cheap, meaning foment a military uprising or a palace coup, that effort, again, is
unlikely to succeed. Venezuela enjoys important international allies, including Russia, China, Iran.
And it also has proved very resilient through brutality and at great cost to the quality of life in Venezuela. But this regime has been there for
decades. It's not going away easily.
MACFARLANE: Well, we will wait to see if Donald Trump follows through on those threats for land strikes and other escalation. But for now, Benjamin
Gedan, we appreciate your analysis. Thank you.
Well, our Eleni Giokos sat down with former Colombian ambassador to the U.S., Juan Carlos Pinzon Bueno, at the World Economic Forum. He's also the
former Colombian defense minister. He addressed calls for regime change in Venezuela and the U.S. strikes on the alleged drug boats in the region.
[10:25:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN CARLOS PINZON BUENO, FORMER COLOMBIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: The people that will celebrate the most regime change happens in Venezuela are
the Venezuelans that are really under stress and under permanent human rights violation.
But the next people that will celebrate is us Colombians, because Maduro has held in his territory the FARC, (INAUDIBLE) attacking Colombian people
and allowing them to do crime from the Venezuelan territory. So honestly, it is convenient for Colombia to see a change of government in Venezuela.
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: So if elected, if you are elected, what would the Venezuelan-Colombian relationship be?
PINZON: Well, there will be two types of relationship: the political one, if Maduro is there, it is going to be a very difficult one and very
distant. But if you put it in terms of border, people, trade and day to day, let's say, consular relationship, we will have one, you know, because
the people in our border needs that.
GIOKOS: We've seen another attack of a vessel off the coast of Venezuela. And importantly, there's -- I think this is the fifth such attack on the
U.S. military on a vessel in the region.
And, of course, the narrative is that it's -- there's a fight against the narco trade and there's been a big push from the U.S. side on this.
What is your perspective on this?
Is this the right thing to do, for the U.S. to get involved in those seas?
PINZON: Let me put it this way. Venezuela has become a narco state. They have narco communism in the head of Maduro. They he leads the Cartel de Los
Solis. And that's very bad news for Latin America.
But it's harming Colombia because, as you know, Colombia was moving into security. But sadly, 10 years ago, we moved away from our policies. And
we're starting to deteriorate security again. And drug trafficking is becoming again a major issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: All right.
Still to come, a nation in mourning. Thousands of people in Kenya pushed their way into Nairobi's International Airport to catch a glimpse of Raila
Odinga's casket.
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MACFARLANE (voice-over): Welcome back to CONNECT THE WORLD, with me, Christina Macfarlane. Here are your headlines.
Frustration is growing in Israel after Hamas said it had returned all the remaining remains of dead hostages that is able to access. Sources in
Israel say government officials believe Hamas knows the whereabouts of at least six more bodies.
Amid the dispute, the Israelis have kept the critical Rafah border crossing closed and are considering further restrictions on the supply of aid.
President Trump confirms he has authorized covert CIA operations inside Venezuela to fight the flow of drugs and migrants to the U.S.
[10:30:04]
He also says he's considering expanding strikes on suspected drug boats to include military operations by land. The U.S. has hit at least five boats
off the coast of Venezuela in recent weeks.
And a Vatican panel says the Catholic Church's mishandling of sexual abuse allegations involving clergy is causing ongoing harm to victims. Its latest
report calls for greater transparency on the Vatican's part and some reports that some abusers -- abuse survivors say they've met with denial
and dismissal from church officials.
It says the church should offer victims of abuse psychological and financial support.
MACFARLANE: Now in Kenya, a seven-day period of national mourning is underway for Raila Odinga, who died on Wednesday. Earlier, thousands of
mourners pushed their way into Nairobi's national airport to try and get a glimpse of Odinga's casket, which has been flown from India to Kenya.
Odinga served as prime minister from 2008 to 2013 and is remembered for his decades of work as a pro-democracy activist. Kenyan flags are flying at
half-staff this hour and, in his honor, Odinga will be given a state funeral with full military honors. CNN's Larry Madowo is following this
story from Nairobi.
And, Larry, as we're seeing from the pictures there, obviously an outpouring of love and respect, people wanting to turn out for Odinga. But
it has, in some instances, turned slightly fraught as well.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has. It started when the body arrived in Nairobi Thursday morning. And thousands of people overwhelmed security
services and made it to the air side. And so the full military arrival that should have been given to him could not happen.
And that was the situation with this massive procession accompanying the body from the airport through the streets of Nairobi. A plan to have a
public viewing at parliament buildings in the capital were quickly scrapped and moved to the largest stadium in Nairobi.
That's Kasarani and that's where we're expecting the public viewing of the body to begin, hours behind schedule. And even getting into Kasarani
Stadium was a problem. I want to show you some video of the moment security services fired in the air just to try and access the stadium.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADOWO (voice-over): You can see mourners scattering there, allowing this military procession to access the stadium before the body could be
presented for public viewing.
That delayed matters quite significantly, because, throughout the day, these thousands of people holding branches, weeping and wailing,
celebrating the life of Raila Odinga, the former prime minister of the country, and maybe the most consequential political figure in Kenyan
history in the last three decades or so.
Inside the stadium itself, there were tens of thousands of people in the stands and in every inch of the turf. Police fired tear gas as well to
disperse mourners there. There's been some reports of motionless bodies seen on the ground. We're working to confirm that.
And there is some anger at the excessive use of force in this, what should have been a celebration of the life of Raila Odinga.
And for the thousands, tens of thousands that have come out to the stadium just to try and celebrate his life, the planning here that there will be a
state funeral on Friday, that is to go along with the wishes of the family.
They say that Raila Odinga dictated that he should be buried within 72 hours of his death, because he died in India and his body was transported
back here in Nairobi. That 72-hour clock began Thursday morning. That will continue through tomorrow for the state funeral with full honors.
Another viewing in Kisumu in the western city and then a final burial on Sunday at his home in Western Kenya. And during that period of seven days'
national mourning, there will be flags flying at half-mast.
And a lot of people, thousands across the country, hoping for a chance to pay their respects. And that's why you see this passion and sometimes this
pandemonium in the process.
MACFARLANE: Yes, well, we will hope to see calm scenes tomorrow for that state funeral, Larry, appreciate it for now. Thank you.
It is the 16th day of the U.S. federal government shutdown and there appears to be no end in sight. The Senate is expected to take another vote
on a Republican bill to fund the government today.
But like the previous nine times, it's expected to fall short of the votes needed. At a CNN town hall on Wednesday, two of the Republicans' fiercest
critics laid out their demands to end the shutdown. They insist they won't vote to fund the government until Republicans agree to extend subsidies for
health insurance plans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I think we need to see ink on paper. I think we need to see legislation. I think we need to see votes.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): We're going to do everything that we can to bring an end to this terrible shutdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Stephen Collinson is following this story for us from Washington.
[10:35:00]
And, Stephen, you know, we've been hearing the last few days that we are now contemplating the longest shutdown ever, with some suggesting this
could run as long as Thanksgiving.
You've written an analysis piece for CNN Digital, in which you argue that the Democrats may need to reconsider their tactics now in order to prevail.
Explain what you meant by that.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think, in many ways, the shutdown has been more successful for the Democrats than many of
us thought. They've elevated this issue of expiring subsidies for the ObamaCare health plan in a way that wasn't the case before. And I think
that is a tangible success.
The problem they face is that they are going up against an opponent, Donald Trump, who, as usual, is not playing by any of the rules and is using his
power to change the calculations that normally end a shutdown.
Normally, shutdowns end when the political pressure becomes so intense on one party that they have to fold. That's usually when federal workers have
gone without wages for a number of weeks.
When the troops aren't getting paid, when the business of government is collapsing, the problem they have with Donald Trump is that he's found ways
which may not be particularly legal to defray some of the impacts of the shutdown.
For example, he's found money from the Pentagon that people didn't know, apparently, was there to pay the troops' paycheck that is coming up. He's
found other ways to pay the FBI. He's even suggested he might get a billionaire friend to subsidize the wages of America's military if it comes
to that.
So he's using all of these different ways to reduce the pressure on himself. So it may be a very long time until there is sufficient heat on
the president that he feels that he needs to pull back. And in that period of time, great damage can be done to a lot of interests and constituencies
that the Democrats hold dear.
MACFARLANE: And there are a number of events happening right now in Trump world without congressional oversight.
Why?
While the government is shut down and Trump himself is obviously threatening to release this list tomorrow to target Democratic led
programs, what's your sense on how long the Democrats can continue to hold out on this and whether, you know, the rising health care costs is still
the right ticket for them?
COLLINSON: Well, it was interesting. We had Tim Kaine, the Virginia senator, on CNN on Wednesday. He represents a state that has thousands of
government workers. Many of them are not being paid right now. Some of them have been fired by the Trump administration. Even more are at risk of
losing their jobs.
He was saying that, right now, his voters are telling him not to back down, that they have to keep fighting Trump and that it's not just an issue of
health care premiums, which are due to shoot up at the end of the year for millions of Americans if this fix isn't guaranteed.
It's about resisting Trump. Democrats have been hammered by the president for nine months. He's already eviscerated the federal government. So a lot
of those voters are saying, now is the time to make a stand, to try and resist Trump.
And it's coming against the backdrop of a building resistance in a number of legal, political, judicial and other fora against Trump. So that is an
interesting dimension of this.
But at some point, I think the Democrats have to make a calculation about whether, OK, we've got this health care issue elevated.
Can we get a guarantee to a vote in the Senate on these subsidies?
And is then the time to claim the win, if you like, to prevent a lot more of this damage taking place in the months ahead?
I mean, it really does look like it could go to Thanksgiving, which is at the end of November. There's a potential pressure point there. It's, you
know, all of America is on the move. Kids coming home from college, people visiting their families.
If you have a bottleneck of airport security, you have trouble at air traffic control, that could be chaos. That could be something that puts
pressure on Trump and the Democrats.
MACFARLANE: And would certainly be the longest shutdown in history if it got there. Stephen Collinson, great to have your analysis. Thank you.
And we'll be right back after this short break. Stay with us.
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[10:40:00]
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MACFARLANE: Excuse me.
Now most of the deep sea remains a mystery and hidden within it are submarine canyons, vast underwater valleys that support marine life and
help keep our oceans in balance.
As part of the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, the One Ocean Foundation is venturing into the deep sea off the coast of Italy to explore and
protect one of these fragile ecosystems. And that's the focus of today's "Call to Earth."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GINEVRA BOLDROCCHI, SCIENTIFIC PROJECT COORDINATOR, ONE OCEAN FOUNDATION: The Mediterranean Sea and the Canyon of Caprera is my home. The canyon is
sustaining so many different species, including sharks, the fin whale, the sperm whale, striped dolphin, bottlenose dolphins -- a lot of dolphins. So
this area needs to be protected.
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: This is the canyon of Caprera. Stretching more than a thousand meters deep, it is one of the
Mediterranean's largest and most biodiverse underwater ecosystems.
In the rough blue waters spanning some 20 to 40 kilometers off the coast of Sardinia, researchers are about to explore the canyon's seabed for the
first time with an ROV, a remote-operated vehicle.
FRANCESCO ENRICHETTI, RESEARCHER, UNIVERSITY OF GENOA: The area we are going to explore is located deeper in the range of 800 -- 1,000 meters
depth. This area is extremely interesting for us because we have very little information at the level. So we hope to find interesting organisms
there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see how many fishing lines.
WEIR: Sailor-turned-engineer Guido Guy is a pioneer in underwater ROV exploration and will be piloting this mission today.
GUIDO GUY, ENGINEER: These organisms grow on the rocks of the sea bottoms, forming these huge forests, which are extremely important for other
organisms.
WEIR: While the ROV works underwater, marine biologist Ginevra Boldrocchi works on the surface, collecting acoustic data, pollution levels and animal
DNA.
BOLDROCCHI: The overall mission of the project is conservation. The first step of every conservation initiative and so you need science to prove that
the area is actually important.
So the first thing we are going to do is the DNA sampling. We want to get all the biological traces which are present in our sea water.
And then we do either the acoustics. This is not only detecting the marine mammals but also noise pollution made from maritime traffic.
[10:45:03]
WEIR: Submarine canyons play a fundamental role in ocean health. They cycle nutrients, store carbon and provide a habitat for countless marine
species from corals to sharks.
BOLDROCCHI: At the moment, the canyon has no kind of effective protection at all. So we are going to lose our refugees for so many endangered species
and we will lose a lot of biodiversity.
WEIR: After surveying the depths of the canyon, today's ROV expedition uncovered rare corals and a wide array of marine life.
ENRICHETTI: And we collected these small gorgonians. Identification is impossible through the images. So we have to analyze it at the laboratory.
WEIR: They also found the worst kind of human impact with fishing gear and litter scattered across the seafloor.
ENRICHETTI: We all serve a rare population of the soft bottom gorgonian completely destroyed by the impact of these long lines.
WEIR: As their research continues, they hope this data will help strengthen their call for a legal framework to protect the canyon and
safeguard its future.
BOLDROCCHI: We want to show that we have important community also in the bottom that deserve to be protected.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Let us know what you're doing to answer the call with the #calltoearth.
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MACFARLANE: A picture of a rare hyena in front of an abandoned building in Namibia has won the 2025 Wildlife Photographer of the Year award. It beat
out more than 60,000 other entries. CNN's Patrick Cornell has more on the competition.
Plus, what happened when a curious canine in North Carolina bit off more than he could chew.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK CORNELL, CNN PRODUCER: Get a gander at this haunting image of a brown hyena.
[10:50:00]
Standing in front of an abandoned building in a former diamond mining town in Namibia. The prize-winning pic beat out more than 60,000 entries to
claim the 2025 Wildlife Photographer of the Year Award.
The annual contest celebrates the world's best nature photography and wildlife photojournalism. Brown hyenas are so rare organizers say it took
the South African photographer a full decade to capture one on camera.
The eerie photo shows how wildlife is reclaiming a ghost town after being abandoned by people.
This photo, titled "After the Destruction," took home the title for Young Wildlife Photographer of the Year, open to photographers aged 17 and under.
It shows a long-horned beetle in central Italy posing in front of abandoned logging machinery.
Award organizers also highlighted this picture of an orphaned giant anteater trailing its caregiver at a rehab center for the Impact Award,
which recognizes conservation success stories.
All winning photographs will be on exhibit at the Natural History Museum in London.
Here's a wild video of a domesticated animal in a bit of a pickle. The Chapel Hill Fire Department says the dog, Colton, got a hold of a lithium-
ion battery and gnawed on the thing until it burst into flames.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He bit into it and you can see that, you know, he's surprised by it and then he's like, uh-oh, what did I do?
CORNELL: They posted the video online to highlight the dangers of leaving those batteries unsecured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're done charging them, like you have to really pay attention and unplug them. You have to make sure you store them. You
know, where they can't get broken or cracked or chewed on by a dog.
CORNELL: Other than a bit of a scare, Colton is perfectly OK. The house only suffered some smoke damage and a burned rug -- I'm Patrick Cornell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Thank goodness for that.
Now London's St. Mary's Hospital has unveiled a statue that's meant to give all new mothers the honor they deserve.
This is Mother Verity, a bronze figure of a postpartum mother, standing tall, 7 feet tall, to be precise, holding a newborn child. It was
commissioned by Frida, a U.S. company making products for new parents. It says only 4 percent of all the statues in London are of women.
Well, I spoke with the creator, Rayvenn D'Clark, and Marine Tanguy from MTArt Agency.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: This was a larger-than-life homage to motherhood.
Why was it so important to immortalize this body in bronze and put her in the center of London?
RAYVENN D'CLARK, ARTIST: A really good question, I believe. We all have mothers. We come from a woman and I think, in this context, we're thinking
about how we can elevate them within our visual society.
Thinking about the city and how it's littered with statues of men, it was really important for us in this project to think about how we could elevate
women and particularly mothers in a really visual context. And so that's what we we're trying to do with this project.
MACFARLANE: And, Marine, the fact that she was unveiled at the Lindo Wing at St. Mary's Hospital in the middle of London was obviously deliberate. I
mean, we are obviously very accustomed to seeing that scene, the famous scene of many royal births.
MARINE TANGUY, MTART AGENCY: Yes.
MACFARLANE: So tell me the thinking behind that.
TANGUY: I mean, you want to show that postpartum is not perfect. I think all of us, when we give birth, are suddenly discovering physical details
and mental health challenges. It's worth noting that the highest cause of deaths from six weeks to 12 months postpartum is suicide for women.
And I think this is, therefore, you know, beyond all the glossiness of the pictures that we see, there's a real reality that's tangible. And we wanted
to honor that. And that's why, you know, there's veins on the breast, like there's the imperfection and the stretch mark.
D'CLARK: And I think there's something really interesting is, initially when we started conceiving it, when we would put images of postpartum on AI
generators.
What happened?
Well, computer crashed. Software glitched. It really couldn't. It wouldn't understand or it couldn't understand at least what we were asking it to do,
which is show me some imperfections. The computer completely eradicated it.
And so we were really starting from scratch. We're very lucky that Marine was going through postpartum at that time. And we really had to reflect on
real bodies within this project.
MACFARLANE: So you were using AI generators because that was part of the process by which you created this.
But when you were using them for research purposes at the beginning, you're saying that basically it didn't recognize this form of a woman's body
because it is so unseen.
D'CLARK: Yes. It's pulling from kind of publicly generated data. And if you think about it, any cursory Google search, you won't see anything
really directly related to the optics of postpartum.
So, of course, when you go through an AI generator, it also doesn't understand really what you're trying to ask. And, you know, even with some
level of creative coding, the computer is really, really struggling to kind of understand what you're asking it to do.
TANGUY: Sexualizing the breast, especially in the pose, like making that body more sexy and different, which, as we know, postpartum is not.
MACFARLANE: Absolutely not. I've just been through it twice. It's definitely not sexy.
(LAUGHTER)
TANGUY: I feel like that was really interesting. And to clarify, we've worked with real bodies of women for this sculpture. It was important for
us. It was modeled on bodies and through real experience. But the AI generators were helping us for the pitch.
D'CLARK: Yes.
MACFARLANE: So tell me about that process. I believe there were 40 women involved.
D'CLARK: There were many women involved, yes. And essentially it was a case of me kind of entering into their home spaces with them and actually
their newborn child and 3D scanning their bodies.
[10:55:00]
Making sure that all of the details that we really wanted within the sculpture.
I had those primarily as a 3D form that we then used in terms of like a digital space to build the sculpture out. But it was really important for
us to reflect in that way, because, of course, there's a huge lack when it comes to kind of any assistance that we could have had.
And so we went back to basics and thought, OK, if the object is there or if the object being women's bodies, let's actually reflect on real women's
bodies within this context.
MACFARLANE: And this really is a real women's body. As I say, all the details are there, exposed for all to see.
What do you want not just women but men to take away from seeing this type of body put on a pedestal in this way?
D'CLARK: Yes, it's really interesting you talk about men because even, you know, in the scanning process, fathers were actively involved.
Can we take the child?
Do you need some space?
It was a really lovely space to be in. And I think even though we kind of centered this project around women and women, particularly within that
mother space, men are really important to that in a number of ways. And I think that really played out within the kind of production phase that I saw
when we were building the sculpture itself.
TANGUY: That's where 8 percent to 10 percent of men do go through postpartum. This is not just a women topic and a third of postpartum
depression can be avoided by men being more helpful with household cause and ultimately helping with the kids, too. So it's completely a topic of
both gender, not just our gender.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Such an important topic and my thanks to Rayvenn and Marine for coming in and speaking to us about it.
And that is it for CONNECT THE WORLD this hour. Stay with CNN. "ONE WORLD" is up after this.
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